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1. 

   AMac…As a Phillies fan, I can totally relate. In a way, I miss the days when they were so bad that a contending season was reason to celebrate. Then, I could feel great about a year like 1993, memories of which I still cherish. But now that they’ve become the “Yankees of the NL”, outspending everyone and arming themselves with a team full of stars, anything less than a World Championship is a let-down. They went wire-to-wire in 1st place last year, yet I’m struggling to get excited about the upcoming season.

   Comment by RP — January 16, 2012 @ 9:23 am

2. 

   When I first read your post, I thought it was about the futility of being a Hokie football fan. I’m just hanging out, waiting for my chance to order (Golden Hokie) season tickets so I can watch another unfulfilling ten win season over weak OOC opponents and a lackluster ACC slate.

   I’ve looked at the future Hokie football schedules for the next six seasons. You can pencil in 8 virtually guaranteed wins for every season. (minimum of 2 OOC foes, Duke, Wake, UVa, home Thursday night game, etc.) That leaves the remaining four regular season games, possible ACC championship and bowl game to fin two more wins for Frank Beamer’s magical – ‘sniff, sniff, we won ten games again, so I must be paid like I’m a sniff, sniff legend…’ – speechifying.

   Comment by abdnva — January 16, 2012 @ 9:27 am

3. 

   OJ,

   I too would like to withdraw my prediction of 5-11 or 6-10 in ACC play for VT. I had no idea this team was as poorly coached as they are.

   I keep hearing this team is YOUNG. Well, wasn’t Jeff Allen YOUNG too? And how did SG develop his talent in the 4 years at VT? Wasn’t he still getting T’s and making bad fouls as a senior?

   The telltale sign? The post game interviews where SG keeps saying we have to play “tougher”. Well, the team can play real tough and still lose because tough doesn’t put the ball in the hole. Bobby Knight said VT needs to play SMARTER but that isn’t even something SG stresses. Or coaches.

   Where are all those SG excuse makers now? All of those people who kept saying I had a personal grudge against SG? My problem has always been that he doesn’t win enough. Cleary VT can afford better.

   As Weaver is strictly a $ man, perhaps the empty seats at the Cassell will get some attention. They couldn’t sell all of the season’s tickets so they broke them up into smaller packages. They couldn’t sell them either. Tickets are still available for UVA at VT-totally unheard of!!!

   I am not saying Greenberg should go. I have always maintained he should never have come. The ceiling has been hit. SG is not the guy to take VT to the NCAA year in and year out and paying him more $ and getting him the better facillities (all things SG said had to happen to raise VT to the “next level”) was never going to make him a better coach.

   This season is perilously close to disaster.

   Comment by Bob H — January 16, 2012 @ 9:29 am

4. 

   Good points, OJ. However, and someone correct me if I’m wrong, for VT to have the 3rd most ACC victories (behind UNC and Puke) over the last 3 years does show amazing progress for VT. I would have never thought they would come as close as they have to winning the ACC in basketball so there is some hope. I think Seth needs a really strong recruiting class for a couple of years to try and make a good run in the ACC and/or NCAA tourney in order to get a convoy of talent to want to come play in Blacksburg but his inept play calling combined with the lack of recruiting a proverbial big man or two is spelling his doom as coach here.

   Comment by Mark — January 16, 2012 @ 9:39 am

5. 

   It’s such a shame that Seth Greenberg isn’t from some small town in SW Va and that he doesn’t use the ‘aw shucks’ routine to disinform the fan base. His real mistake is being born north of the Mason Dixon line and in being extremely honest in his public speaking appearances, which are frequent while he promotes the university.

   Folks hated him before he arrived, and they use every opportunity to downgrade him since he came. I guess they much preferred the UVa grad Ricky Stokes to Greenberg.

   Comment by abdnva — January 16, 2012 @ 9:40 am

6. 

   Saw her sing this song at PNC after a Pirates game a couple of years ago. Jo Dee Messina. “Heads Carolina Tails California” Favorite song by her is “I`m Alright” written by Lynchburg boy Phil Vasser. Check it out.

   Comment by Ralph — January 16, 2012 @ 9:49 am

7. 

   One thing stood out to me this weekend. The defense can slow down or cool down high powered offense. The 49ers and Giants did. Anybody see a potential rematch between the Giants and Patriots? I do.

   Green Bay were atrocious all season with their 2-4-5 scheme on defense. It was exposed for all to see. Rodgers and crew were masking the deficiency with the high rolling offense. It didn’t help that none of the dropped passes were caught or losing fumbles. One glaring weakness of the 2-4-5 scheme is the lack of pass rushing ends. Granted, they are tied with the Niners for takeaways, but they gave up way too many intermediate passes in the middle.

   The Saints were simply outcoached.

   I made the mistake of choosing Denver to beat the Patriots. I know better than that now.

   I’m already longing for college football to return. The NFL is all right, but college football is where the actions at.

   Comment by Trevor — January 16, 2012 @ 9:54 am

8. 

   Ralph nails it. Didn’t realize Vasser was from the Hill City. Nice fun fact.

   Comment by Aaron McFarling — January 16, 2012 @ 9:56 am

9. 

   abdnva,

   Stokes made about $150K a year, Greenberg is close to a mil. VT fans have the right to expect more out of SG. Stokes was a clasic Weaver “yard sale hire” (google Beth Dunkenberger).

   And Greenberg came from USF where they were only too glad to part ways with him. He came there promising they would be competing with FSU, UF, and UM for NCAA appearances and titles. NOT.

   If Stokes or even Hussey is your benchmark, yeah, SG is better. But why would you set your sights so low? I want more for VT than this.

   The problem is, bluntly, VT could have an off year and no one would be too bent out of shape over it, if Greenberg had delivered on NCAA appearances. But SG has used up his equity by underperforming vastly in that area, and in not even WINNING the NIT, something that Foster DID deliver. Heck, SG hasn’t even made it to the final 4 of the NIT.

   His success in the ACC has come while the ACC is DOWN. And it is down this year and VT is down even further. When does the coach become accountable?

   Comment by Bob H — January 16, 2012 @ 9:57 am

10. 

    Went to Logan`s high school and hasn`t forgotten the other `burg. Comes back every year to do a concert for the Miller Home. A couple of months ago he set up shop at River Ridge and did an impromptu concert. Brandon Inge also went to same high school-just adding to the fun facts here.

    Comment by Ralph — January 16, 2012 @ 10:13 am

11. 

    Mark, VT is either 3rd or 4th in wins, I think right in the same neighborhood as FSU. Problem is, like with the football team, the lions share of the wins come against the teams you expect them to beat, with some wins against comparable competition, and very, very few against the upper tier. VT has managed a couple wins here and there against UNC and Duke, but you’re right that the lack of a big man and the play calling hurts. VT never has a coherent offensive scheme. It seems like they just slap whatever they think of over midnight tacos and beer together for the next game. Not having a big man, means they need shooters…because they can’t pound the paint and get a dominant inside game going. And, VT doesn’t really recruit shooters.

    Bob, if VT drops its next 5, which is far more realistic than VT winning all 5, or even winning 3 of them, then I think the warning sirens will be sounding. It’s hard to say much about gam attendance the past couple weeks with students gone. Now, they’re back in town. If Cassell is still not full going forward, then it’s clear the fans (even those who get free tix) are tired of what they’re seeing on the court.

    A few more empty seats in Lane might help convey the message too.

    Comment by Other John — January 16, 2012 @ 10:17 am

12. 

    Weaver understands nothing but money. As long as Hokie fans are willing to dole out the cash nothing will change. The people who want a new basketball coach or new football coaches need to be willing to tell Weaver that either changes will be made or you will spend your money elsewhere. If the donors aren’t willing to throw their weight around then be happy with what you’ve got because that’s all there will ever be. I quit giving several years ago, now I’m even tired of reading and writing about it.

    Comment by Steve — January 16, 2012 @ 10:25 am

13. 

    Mark, I did some looking, and VT is actually 6th in regular-season ACC wins, with 26, over the last 3 years. Duke has 37, UNC 32, FSU 31, Clemson 27, and Maryland 27. Makes sense as to why they’ve been an NIT team. If you toss in this season so far, they’re now tied with BC for total wins as well…

    Comment by Other John — January 16, 2012 @ 10:38 am

14. 

    Tough being a fan, for sure. In fact, These are the Times that try Hokie`s souls. Paine-ful, isn`t it. Coaching blunders and red zone failures cost us a very winnable Sugar Bowl. At least the football team was in a zone. Tech`s basketball team reminds me of that cruise ship off Italy. Not quite sunk yet but with UNC and UVA looming off the port bow-close. Was expecting much more this year and since I am here in Lyncburg, may resort to going to see Falwell`s Flames play. Give me Liberty or Give Me Seth? Really sorry I`m in that boat.

    Comment by Ralph — January 16, 2012 @ 10:49 am

15. 

    Ralph — Haven’t been following Liberty too closely, but isn’t this one of the worst teams the Flames have had in years? Might want to opt for Amherst County hoops!

    Comment by Aaron McFarling — January 16, 2012 @ 10:58 am

16. 

    Hey Hokie fans, cheer up . One of our own won in golf this weekend. Is it just me or is Wagner’s ‘stache a pure 1980′s Scott Simpson look?

    Baseball starts in a few weeks, Spring training will be more entertaining than watching VT basketball, that is unless you like the Three Stooges. I have faith in Seth, but this year just isn’t the year to expect great things. Too much youth and inexperience. Too many ill-advised shots and mental breakdowns.

    Comment by Hokie Al — January 16, 2012 @ 11:03 am

17. 

    OJ, that’s what I’ve been saying for awhile. Tech doesn’t have a big man to draw double team or to beat up the paint. They rely too much on jump shots. One thing that drive me crazy is how they don’t pay attention to pick and roll. They don’t pass it off the guy that set the screen and rolled.

    Ralph, I feel bad for you. Having to pick between VT or Liberty. Either makes a very attractive choice.

    Comment by Trevor — January 16, 2012 @ 11:05 am

18. 

    Green Bay joins LSU as another that could have established itself as one of the greatest teams of its sport, all-time, and just blew it. I guess that is an indicator they weren’t so great after all.

    I find it amusing to read some of the thoughts about Rickey Stokes, as a hire. Yeah, he has proved he’s a lousy head coach, but just who was Tech going to hire when it hired him? Remember, Tech was that nomad of a program at the time, still in the A-10.

    There weren’t exactly a lot of people racing to the front of the line for the job. He was actually highly thought of as a head coaching candidate in just such a situation. Another high level target was a guy Delaware that nobody had heard of who turned it down waiting for something better. That worked out for Mike Brey.

    Little known tidbit was Greenberg was in the mix when Hussey was hired, but Bill Foster exercised his influence to have Hussey be the guy to replace him, since he was here, he thought it’d be a smoother transition than bringing in a whole new crew.

    Even when Greenberg was hired, it wasn’t a Whose Who of coaches with interest in the job, or willing to talk to Tech about it. Lon Kruger was the most well known, and he didn’t want it. I think he served as more of a consultant to Weaver, while Weaver tried to talk him into it.

    I don’t think I’ll ever understand what some people want out of Tech basketball. It has never been more than average, using today’s standards of college basketball. I didn’t think we’d be even competitive in the ACC for 10 years, let alone having first round ACC tournament byes, or making it to the semi’s a couple of times.

    I blame it all on Frank Beamer, personally. He got Tech over the football hump quicker than he should have, in part because of Tech’s NCAA problems. He and staff learned to recruit at the 85 limit because of sanctions ahead of everybody else, learned how to be a little more choosey with who they went after, from a situation dictated to them, and used the BE football affiliation as an advantage never before had. He spoiled two decades of alums.

    Comment by Rick H. — January 16, 2012 @ 11:18 am

19. 

    Rick — I think at times people get out of whack with the expectations for the Hokies, but for them to lose their first three ACC games when favored by no fewer than 4 1/2 points in any of them (and as much as 10, vs. BC), well, that’s underachieving.

    Comment by Aaron McFarling — January 16, 2012 @ 11:47 am

20. 

    Aaron, I agree completely about the start of this ACC season. It is probably the most disappointing start to any ACC season Tech has had, particularly given how good such a young team looked early on in the non-conference schedule, and how nicely the ACC schedule was set up. Tech had a chance to win 4, maybe 5 roadies, as far as I could see – 2 of those ops are gone.

    I think now some of those young guys have started to ‘think’ and not just play, and it is having an impact on the results. And, not just the young guys, but some of the older guys, too. Screwing up is contagious (all anybody had to see was the FSU game for that to hold true), just like hitting is contagious in baseball.

    Comment by Rick H. — January 16, 2012 @ 12:01 pm

21. 

    Aaron, you`re right. That`s why I haven`t quite made the decision to jump ship yet.

    Comment by Ralph — January 16, 2012 @ 12:12 pm

22. 

    You know what? The “10 win season” line by Frank Beamer might have worked the first few times it was uttered, but now, it’s like the “Wee Wee” pig. It was funny the first 5 times, but annoying now.

    Comment by Trevor — January 16, 2012 @ 12:31 pm

23. 

    Aaron, it definitely is underachieving. And speaking of that, I did the digging to go back through the ACC since the expansion to 12 teams completed, and VT is 7th in regular season wins with 49 through 6 seasons plus this current season.

    Factoring in the ACC Tournament into the wins discussion, VT is still 7th in wins in the ACC since the 05-06 season. So in reality, they really are a middle-of-the-pack squad, and perhaps the expectations or hopes for them making the NCAA’s yearly are a tad inflated. So maybe it’s not so much underachieving as the perceptions of the program are loftier than they really ought to be.

    I personally believe they can do better. There’s a lot of hoops talent in the high schools around the state that can be better tapped and utilized at the collegiate level. VT just built a very nice, very expensive practice facility for basketball, and Cassell has a kind of Cameron Indoor sort of feel when the crowd gets going. Plus, being in the ACC, it’s one of the top 2 or 3 conferences for basketball you’d want to play in. So it comes down to recruiting the right kinds of players to build a team, and then coaching them to the system you preach. And that seems to be where VT hoops is falling short.

    Comment by Other John — January 16, 2012 @ 12:37 pm

24. 

    I can’t wait on college football to start up again. However until something is done about Stinspring and the offense I guess i’ll just have to watch at home if it is televised. I will not attend any games until changes are made. Maby you won’t miss my money but there are a lot of people that feel the same way that I do. Weaver you will make changes sooner or later when you can’t sell games out!!!

    Comment by John — January 16, 2012 @ 12:43 pm

25. 

    CAPTCHA’d again. SG’s coaching sucks. Look on Raines face at end of game indicates locker room problems. Pros throw to running backs downfield behind the LB’s, why don’t we. Gronkowski’s confirmed catch just shows how bad the replay officials call was on Coales catch.That’s a brief recall.

    Comment by Tom L — January 16, 2012 @ 1:11 pm

26. 

    Wait a doggone minute here.

    Hasn’t Tony Bennett up at UVA shown what is possible when you bring in the right guy for the job?

    No one at VT expects to be UNC or Duke in ACC basketball, but clearly #3 is out there for the taking. Especially as bad as the ACC is this year.

    We are talking about BC, look at who they have lost to. We are talking about Wake, look at who they have lost to, they got beat by NC State 76-40 on their own floor this weekend.

    Come on guys, when does the coach become responsible for the team’s performance?

    Comment by Bob H — January 16, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

27. 

    How about a couple of those calls against the Giants yesterday. The non-fumble call made me think the Sugar bowl review guys had set up shop in Green Bay. Also, the helmet to helmet on Rogers was ridiculous. Trevor, agree on the pig Still like the ‘mayhem” guy though-reminds me of our offensive coaches.

    Comment by Ralph — January 16, 2012 @ 1:43 pm

28. 

    Concerning VT basketball, I don’t think one can underestimate everything that happened surrounding the Hudson break-in episode. There were/are several unanswered questions. The guys on the team know exactly what happended and why. Negativity tends to manifest itself in the play of individuals and teams.

    Comment by Rick — January 16, 2012 @ 1:44 pm

29. 

    One common theme I see with some Tech fans are fear of change. Let me illuminate something. At Kansas for 14 years, Roy Williams built a powerhouse, but had zero national championship. He left for UNC, won 2 NC, and Bill Self won, what 2, NC at Kansas.

    Seth Greenberg have apparently made the program relevant, no arguments there from me, however, he can’t get the program over the hump. If JW made the bold hire, and brought in someone proven, I can see Tech soaring.

    Let me ask a hypothetical question, suppose Coach K retired by the end of the season? What would happen to the Duke program? I’d wager it will experience the same slump UNC went through with Guntheridge and Matt Doherty.

    Comment by Trevor — January 16, 2012 @ 1:54 pm

30. 

    The kind of fan who blames the coach for achieving when ‘the ACC is down’? That’s like the kind of person who says – ‘Some of my best friends are (fill in the ethnic minority)…’ Let’s see… a guy whose every basketball post finds a way to be negative about Greenberg, that’s the guy who pleads for perspective? Hmm…

    Comment by abdnva — January 16, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

31. 

    One can not the similarities between Beamer and Greenberg…Two snake oil salesmen who have been exposed as check cashers.

    Comment by mark r — January 16, 2012 @ 3:38 pm

32. 

    Virginia Tech basketball is so far out of the universe of other good teams that it will never find its way into the atmosphere of the universe.
    Virginia Tech football is at best in the second tier of the elite college programs.
    Having said that, the football program is closer to being a top tier elite program than the basketball program.
    The problem is that as things stand now at Virginia Tech, neither of the programs will probably ever be much more than they are now.
    Football is in a better place than most of us ever thought possible, but we also see that the program could rise to the next highest level and that the program is probably not going to do that, so we Tech fans are frustrated, and rightfully so.
    Let’s go Hokies !!!

    Comment by Frank — January 16, 2012 @ 4:39 pm

33. 

    Is Greenberg really better than Stokes? It’s hard to tell, Greenberg has a advantage over Stokes and every other coach that has ever coached at VT. And that advantage is that he’s in the ACC. Every player he has ever signed has said they wanted to play in the ACC. Whatever you think of Greenberg, can you think of how things would be for him with players that is not as good as he has been able to recruit? I think he would have been fired a long time ago if it wasn’t for VT getting into the ACC!

    Comment by Robert — January 16, 2012 @ 8:20 pm

34. 

    abdnva,

    When does the coach become accountable for the teams performance?

    Full article in the RT today and not once in it does SG even suggest that the performance of the team has anything to do with the coaching. Not even a hint of it.

    Denial is not a just a river in Egypt. You reap what you sew.

    Comment by Bob H — January 17, 2012 @ 7:16 am

35. 

    Bob H…He does put most of the onus on the players, but there is one quote that does suggest the coaching has to be better, too: “It’s our job to get these guys at a little bit higher level, and that’s what we’re working toward doing.”

    Comment by Aaron McFarling — January 17, 2012 @ 7:50 am

36. 

    So, Aaron, that leaves some wiggle room there…

    Does that mean the coaches are actively working with the players and they’re improving as the coaching is going on, or does that mean the coaches themselves are working on how to coach the kids up? If it’s the former, the results aren’t showing it yet. If it’s the latter, it would certainly explain a few things.

    Maybe it was a sort of Freudian sports slip on SG’s part…

    Comment by Other John — January 17, 2012 @ 8:12 am

37. 

    As I re-read that, it still didn’t convey my thought that the coaches aren’t exactly doing a good job of extracting the talent and improving it from the players, which would be why the coaches would be working on their coaching skills. I’m not sure they’ve ever really gotten the most from the players on that team in a long while, a lot of talent that ocasionally shows up, but more often than not puts up some middling efforts. Sure, some of that is on the players, but it’s also on the coaches for not instilling a better work ethic and sense of importance into the players…or for simply not recruiting players who already have that when still in high school. Recruit a kid who has raw talent but wants to eat gummy bears all day, and you get Lamar Odom.

    Comment by Other John — January 17, 2012 @ 8:16 am

38. 

    As I say, OJ, the fact that this is a young team does not comfort me much. Jeff Allen was young too, and I question whether his level of discipline and play ever improved through SG coaching (keeping in mind that as as a person matures from the ages of 18-22, some things happen naturally without being coached).

    I listened to the 2nd half hour of the Hokie Hotline last night and I got no inkling at all that SG feels accountable for the performance. He was upbeat and mentioned this is still a good team. He brought out the now tired and old excuse about JT, and he went back in time on how great the last 5 years have been (really, no NCAA appearcances and that is great?), and was clearly not focused on any mirror when it came to fixing anything.

    Hey, I will readily admit I was very skeptical when SG was hired. I don’t care much for his coaching style, the “playing tough” (instead of playing smart), the whining, the excuses, no I don’t care for that style that much. But, if he was successful in getting us to the dance year in and year out, it wouldn’t matter a bit to me.

    To me it is all about the on the court performance.

    Comment by Bob H — January 17, 2012 @ 9:42 am

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