Wednesday: Quickly around the horn
Another early-morning doctor’s appointment today, so here are the basics:
-Here’s Berman’s game story on Virginia’ 73-55 victory over the Hokies last night. It pretty much went the way most of us thought it would go, except maybe for Erick Green scoring just one point in the first half (he finished with 22). UVa improves to 18-6 and 8-3 in the ACC; Tech drops to 11-13, 2-9. Both teams head to the Triangle on Saturday, where UVa plays a big one at UNC at noon. Tech visits N.C. State at 2 p.m.
-Doughty has a column on Joe Harris, who might not be getting a lot of attention but is having a spectacular season.
-Doughty also has a story on new UVa offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild, who says the pro-style philosophy in Charlottesville won’t change much.
-LeBron James becomes the first player in NBA history to score 30 points and shoot at least 60 percent in six consecutive games.
-The U. of Miami puts its 10-0 ACC record on the line tonight at Florida State (7 p.m. ESPN2).
-Soccer fans get an afternoon treat when Real Madrid hosts Manchester United in the UEFA Champions League (2:30 p.m., Fox Soccer Channel).
-Super Bowl Wednesday? The NFL has several contingency plans in place should a blizzard hit the Northeast during next year’s outdoor Super Bowl, including postponing the game several days or playing it on Saturday to beat an ominous forecast.
February 13, 2013 - 8:17 AM
Wow…the NFL’s “contingency” plans are even more reason why the Northern Outdoor Super Bowl idea is horrible. Imagine the outrage if a team’s star player is nursing an injury and the game suddenly gets either (a) postponed, giving him 2-3 extra days to recover or (b) moved to Saturday, giving him one less day of recovery time. Either way, it opens the door to critics saying that the outcome of the game was potentially influenced by the league’s decision.
Prediction:
VT will not win another game all season.
Hoping I am wrong. Now, guys, go out and win Saturday!
WAHOOWA!!! Eric Green Hoo?
Bob H, sadly…you may well be correct that the Hokies lose out. Realistically, the only remaining game that they might have a chance to win is home against a struggling FSU team. Even with as mediocre as Wake Forest is, winning in Winston-Salem is rather difficult…they’re the only other team on the slate the Hokies could hope to beat right now. Clemson isn’t playing too great though, but I get the sense that the team has largely thrown in the towel this year and given up. Aside from Green, no one on the team is producing…
But, VT can go for a rare double feat…they can claim the cellar of the ACC in both men’s and women’s hoops this year! Yes, they can sweep the bottom of the barrel all right…the women’s team should have no trouble at least earning a last-place tie, given that the 3 remaining home games are all against ranked teams, and the 2 remaining road games are against similarly positioned Clemson (who has the home game against VT and road games at BC and GT who are also bad), and a middling Wake Forest.
The men’s team is up 1 loss on BC, who hosts WF today and GT to finish the year…which gives them 2 solid chances for home wins, plus they have a winnable road game at FSU. GT has 2-3 winnable games as well, and at 3 wins, may already be out of reach for being passed by the Hokies.
I’d say the old tag line of there’s always next year but honestly, looking at both teams and how this current season is progressing, I don’t see a whole lot to be encouraged about for the 13-14 season.
The NFL should never put Super Bowl in New York/New Jersey or wherever it is. Keep Super Bowl in the south, either Superdome ,Georgia Dome or in Jacksonville.
Can we buy some players?
The most likely remaining wins for the Hokies are – Clemson, F$U, & at Wake. F$U comes after the Duke game, where we will be annihilated. You can figure that will carry over in poor attitude against F$U for our 10th straight loss. Then we’ll get beat down by Miami and the Clemson game will have us staggering to a 12th straight loss. I think we’ll beat Wake to end our losing streak at thirteen games in a row.
The biggest lesson to learn from this is that Jim Weaver will have finally realized his goal of destructing Hokie basketball enough to shove it down to the cellar where everyone expected us to remain when we first joined. You know, before we stayed in the top third of the conference nearly every year under Greenberg.
At least the ‘family’ will be having fun, though. That’s what is important.
OJ,
Honestly, do you think JJ is the right guy?
It is possible the Hokies could be like the Celtics without Rondo (once Green graduates) but I seem them as worse next year, maybe not even competitively worse.
Hard to find bright spots for next year.
Raines is developing as a big man.
The lack of progress by Brown and Eddie is distressing.
When you start a walk-on “Will the Thrill” ahead of Eddie you are not looking at a formula for success.
This VT basketball season is beginning to look like the second coming of hoo Ricky Stokes ?? Weaver’s basketball hires have resulted in destroying our program. He has shown over the years that he knows nothing about basketball.
Can someone answer this question for me?……
I know that the Hokies football team finished 7-6 for the worst record in 2-0 years…….
But, what is the worst record for a Va Tech basketball team???………And in what year??
It does appear that, for men’s sports, this has NOT been a good year for the Hokies.
CR,
You need to be more factual regarding Seth Greenberg. “You know, before we stayed in the top third of the conference nearly every year under Greenberg.”
Here are the FACTS:
04-05 4th
05-06 10th
06-07 3rd
07-09 4th
08-09 7th
09-10 3rd
10-11 4th
11-12 9th
And I am being kind here because 4 of the times we were in that “top 3rd” we were TIED which means it wasn’t a top 3rd because there were more than 4 teams in the top 3rd.
But, do the math on the above. 8 years in the ACC and 5 in the “top 3rd” and that somehow qualifies as “nearly EVERY year”?
In 8 years the average finish for SG was 5.5th place. And you make this claim that VT was in the top 3rd nearly every year? And, during that entire run there was ONE NCAA tournament bid? This also comes at a time when the ACC was getting much weaker as a baketball conference too, I might add.
Seth Greenberg was hardly the patron saint of VT basketball.
I think it’s too early to pass judgement on JJ, but, as a Wahoo fan, I am pleased that we have finally found a real coach, who is building a program, not just a team. And next year will be even better.
Bob H, I’m really torn on JJ now. I was not really enthused with the hire, but I figured he deserved a chance to show us what he could do. I don’t think 1 season is really adequate to make a good judgement because the sample size is so small, but I have some major concerns about how the team is playing that give me major misgivings about the future direction of the program. They had some spark and energy early and despite some glaring flaws, played well…albeit against weaker competition. I think we all knew they would struggle in conference, but the fact that everyone outside of Green has regressed as the season has gone on is not a good sign. I’m very concerned about next year given what I see.
SG was far from perfect and sometimes a bit too much of a hothead…and I can’t say whether or not had he not been fired a bit late in the game would his team this year be any better than they’ve played…but JJ in year 1 has a chance to do 3 things SG never did: win fewer than 4 ACC regular season games, lose more than 12, and finish dead stinking last.
I started the season excited about the new direction of the BB program (7-0 helps), but in the past few weeks that excitement has been replaced by concern.
Bob H – great quest about JJ and if he is the right person.
JJ is not new to the VT program – he knows the players and their strengths and he knows the ACC, and while he has changed the systems they run, it should have been a change to maximize their strengths. Tony B was new to the UVA players and the ACC and he seems to be doing well in a short period – same with Jim L at Miami.
When will the media – espec the Roanoke Times: Aaron, Mark, or even Andy start asking some tougher questions to the VT admin about the direction of both BB programs. Nice to get game recaps and a list of quotes, but how about getting a little tougher, you certainly don’t hesitate to call out Frank and the Football program when things are going bad.
The cupboard may have been bare when JJ took over, but at this pace it is not going to get restocked any time soon
Gotta agree 100% OJ. The problem with replacing SG was who would make the choice. The same guy who hired Stokes, Dunkenberger, Wolfe, Weiss, Brand, etc. Odds were very long that JW and his self appointed committee of ONE would come up with the right guy.
JW went with the cheap route, which as I recall, based on the SG settlement and what he is paying JJ, leaves VT actually paying LESS for the MBB HC than it was if SG had been retained. But, SG was not fired for performance, he was fired because there was not room enough on the VT campus for both the JW and SG egos.
I listened to JJ’s comments last night after the loss (radio) and it was truly apparent he is in way over his head. Hiring a guy with no HC experience to coach in the ACC? Certifiably insane I say.
I hope that we improve, but I am seeing brick free throws, and little halfcourt offense (pass it around, jack up a 3 when the shot clock gets close). The difference in how well UVA was prepared and coached in the game last night was clearly evident.
I don’t think JJ makes it past his initial contract.
Maybe Weaver’s replacement should come from Lousiville. They seem to have great men’s and women’s programs in every sport. Or at the very least they could take some pointers from what they are doing.
Fine, jump on JJ. Let’s review:
1. Weaver, for whatever reason, waited until late to fire SG and announce a hire. JJ had already announced his departure to Clemson and then came back.
2. 9 scholorship players to start the season.
3. Everyone expected a bad season going in.
So, the season generaly lives down to all of our expectations and therefore JJ is the wrong guy and obviously doomed and has no future and can’t coach.
WTF, over?
If you loved SG, and some did, fine. SG was clearly not the answer. Better then Stokes maybe, but he had several seasons and steady improvement was not happening.
Now CR just hates all things Weaver and all things Beamer and will twist any possible positive to a negative (Shane voted a Top 50 Recruiter – CR says Frank bribed the voters – VT gets a great class – CR says they aren’t – VT kids explode a bottle – CR sayd they are fiends – so what are the “Bama kids arrested last night who admitted beating and robbing citizens- suck it up CR our program is pretty damn good).
I say that when things go exactly as expected (bad season, tough circumstance, decent recruits) you can’t exactly draw a panic conclusion.
Its really a shame for Green because he plays his heart out. Penetrate, pass, shot, clank. I have never seen guys miss so many open shots as we do right now. That seems to be a team emotion thing. Once you are on a bad streak its hard to get off. The OK State game shows they can play AND that JJ is a coach.
Give the guy a chance.
Agree with all the comments above on the BB team. He is however playing with SG’s players and I don’t think SG ever recruited a pure shooter. Green is a late bloomer which is fortunate for Tech. Can you imagine how bad this team would be without him! They don’t play defense, their press is rec league and their offense is modified playground. JJ says we are going to play up tempo and 80% of the time the middle man beats the wings down the floor. I just don’t see improvement and now I’m sure feelings are being hurt by JJ’s attempts to get a spark. Fortunately I don’t think these players are talented enough to be able to transfer to another Div I program so they will be here next year. I don’t know what’s in the pipeline coming in but it had better have some shooters. JJ has a long recruiting year ahead of him. I’d go foreign and JUCO until he can establish something.
Zman,
I sure hope JJ succeeds, but I am saying I have some doubts in what I am seeing. This VT team was not prepared to play GT Saturday. They were clueless last night and once UVA went on that 1st half run, we all knew it was over.
Top it off and look how empty the stands were Saturday for a game that should have had alot of people thinking it was winable (we had beaten GT in Atlanta).
JJ will get his chance. If for no other reason than JW hates to admit he was ever wrong (like on Dunkenberger). Realistically, JW retires and a new AD evaluates the program and JJ, unless clearly showing progress towards a NCAA bid, probably is on tenuous ground.
He was, at best, a longshot hire.
I typically like giving coaches a solid 3 seasons to get settled in. They need time to figure out the current roster strengths and weaknesses, and see how they might play into their coaching style. That usually makes for a rough first season, and sometimes second. By the third year, the coaches have their recruits playing substantial minutes and that’s when major improvement should be obvious, if it hasn’t come already. JJ has a 5-year contract. I deplore long contracts in anything. Coaches, players, cell phones, business leases…I hate them. They tie too much money to a potentially bad situation, and limit flexibility to make needed changes if things aren’t working out. The other issue with JJ right now is that it’s not like he was a noob to the program…he had been on staff since 2007, so he was already very familiar with the players strengths and weaknesses, and should have had a pretty good idea of what they were capable of, so that initial grace period to me is much smaller. I’m still willing to excuse this season, given that he’s never been a head coach. But if next year goes like this (or worse), then what’s the reason to keep him around? The final 3 years of his initial contract?
OJ,
That would be reason enough for JW (google Dunkenberger). He has shown a willingness to torpedo any program at VT no matter how bad the damage done (VT WBB may never get back to its lofty perch) for the sake of saving a few bucks. There was absolutley no way Dunkenberger should have been brought back for her final season. It killed us recruiting wise and it just put any replacement hire further behind the 8 ball. Ditto with Stokes, although the MBB then was closer to respectibility.
One really does have to ask, where is the money going? We are raking in more in the ACC than we ever did in the BE. Why can’t we afford a decent coach in MBB and WBB?
#8 Bob H, correct on several things you mentioned. Weaver’s history of hires is pretty bad. Dresser was a fluke circumstance akin to finding Dean Smith coaching at Christiansburg High School & hiring him. Greenberg turned out to be above average (but not the answer), and I really doubt Weaver expected even that much from him. The rest are all… well, we know.
You’re correct on the cost savings with Weaver. Johnson’s salary, plus Greenberg’s buyout payments, will still be less than the salary Greenberg would have gotten the next four seasons. IIRC, somewhere around $250K a year less.
I didn’t think Johnson was a good hire at the time, not because of his personality, but his lack of experience and the level of conference we belong. Events and actions are proving that prediction true, unfortunately. I’m trying to give him slack, because I know he’s giving full effort, but you are right – he’s in over his head. I certainly don’t want him fired, though. Not as long as Weaver will hire his replacement. Once we get rid of Weaver, not a moment too soon, then the new AD can provide a hopeful vision. Johnson won’t be given a new contract, though, unless it is by Weaver.
I do think Johnson needs to measure his words to the press better about his players. Here’s one example from last night – “We don’t have time for other guys to get involved. … We need Erick to be the aggressor.” How’s that for a confidence booster? I wonder if the ‘other guys’ are having as much fun as Green says he is? That’s just not good to say in public. That creates bad team chemistry.
Last thing – if you remove the first ten game stretch of the season, our offense is essentially the same now as under Greenberg. Which is to say unimaginative, boring, and reeks of desperation. The only difference is that now our defense isn’t any good, either. So… we’ve got that going for us.
Zman, you really have become hysterical. I know you’re obsessed, but you’re embarrassing yourself with such lies and character assaults. You need to take up yoga or something so you can calm down.
#13 Bob H, the question on the money is a good one. We’ve seen no capital improvements for non-revenue sports in a while. Weaver is paying down the Lane Stadium debt, and paying off the long overdue hoops practice facility. Let’s not forget, we’ll continue to ignore non-rev’s until after the indoor football practice facility is finished.
I saw an article on hokiehoops.com that detailed a breakdown on how much money we are losing with the reduced basketball attendance. It was a surprising amount. Estimated to be about $1 million this season. It will be worse next year, too. Remember, seat reallocation occurs. After such a dismal year as this one, don’t expect anyone to increase Hokie Club donations or try to jump in line for season tickets.
You mentioned the way Weaver let Dunkenberger twist in the wind until the very end of her contract. If he cared about WBB, he would have replaced her TWO years ago, minimum. Instead, he went cheap. I guess Weaver didn’t want to have to pay out a settlement to her. He’ll be the same way with Johnson. Johnson might be his last hire. The exception would be if some coach left on their own, otherwise Weaver’s not getting rid of anyone. I think the comparison of Dunkenberger & Johnson is probably a close one. Both would be well suited to coach at smaller locales, until building their experience and resume enough to maybe move up well down the road. Unfortunately, Johnson been tossed in the deep end of the pool.
I’ve never been sold on JJ. Tech is in a precarious situation as a football program with a spotty (at best) basketball history, especially with comparative powerhouses Syracuse, Louisville & Pitt all joining the ACC over the next year years. Given the current trajectory, I see Tech winding up more like Penn State (perennial conference bottom-dweller that only occasionally breaks through to the top half of the league) than Florida (competes in both Football and Basketball almost annually).
Because of the conference expansion, I would say that the importance of the next recruiting class and the 2013-2014 season are exagerrated more than in most ‘normal’ seasons, and I have my doubts that JJ is cut out for the job. This team has regressed over the past 2 months, and that’s never a good sign.
#16 RP, the disappointing thing is that the crop of new faces coming in next year only has one possible candidate that is as good as what we’ve got right now. Otherwise, we’ve got a couple more Barksdales and a short shooting guard. Ask Hank Thorns how that works in the ACC.
Next season looks to be like this season, if you subtract Erick Green. I’m not optimistic at all. That’s not even considering 2014/15, when the new basketball powers join. Sigh… I hadn’t even thought about that. In the span of a decade, we’ve gone from being an irrelevant doormat in the Big East to a solid program that does well in the ACC, and now back down to being a doormat in the ACC for the foreseeable future.
Looking for a silver lining? It will be so many years before we ever rise high enough to be on the NCAA bubble again that everyone will look at Greenberg as an ESPN fixture, that the NCAA committee will have completely changed makeup and forgotten about ‘certifiably insane’.
On the serious side, it will not ever happen until VaTech as a university takes basketball seriously and decides to make it a priority. Not saying replacing football, but on a level similar to where football is now. To actually be committed to succeess in it.
One of the things I think is crazy is the price of tickets to WBB games. Better to sell 3000 tickets at $4 a piece than 200 at $8 a piece.
What nut would pay $8 regularly to see this team play?
Ditto for the MBB program. Better to sell some seats at a reduced price than let them sit empty.
JW is a good facilities guy. End of conversation…..
#18 Bob H, I’d even go so far as to say – put the price of pre-Christmas tickets for men’s games at $5-10 each/$2-5 for women’s, just to get people in when the arena is always empty. Or give away several hundred to local youth groups. Have every Boy & Girl Scout troop in SW Va get free tickets any time they want before Christmas. Give church & civic groups $5 adult & $2 children tickets before Christmas.
It’s going to take a lot of creativity in trying to rebuild the program over the next several years. Developing enthusiasm among a skeptical fan base will be very difficult, thanks to the attitude displayed by the current athletic leadership. Think about it – next season, even if the team starts out 7-0/9-3 again? Nobody will believe it, they’ll be waiting for the inevitable collapse. Nobody will attend until they have a reason to believe they’ll receive their money’s worth.
Different topic — Potentially HUGE news out of the Big 10 today — Wisconsin’s Barry Alvarez says that the conference AD’s have agreed not to schedule any more games against FCS competition:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8942451/barry-alvarez-says-big-ten-schedule-fcs-teams
If all of the BCS leagues agreed to do that, or if the playoff committee rewarded the Big 10 for doing that once the new system starts, it would be awesome.
Here’s how bad things are for the hoops teams, attendance-wise: I’ve been offered free tickets to games for both the men and women, and I work next to campus and have a campus-wide parking permit so I can park anywhere I like, or I can hop a shuttle bus, so going to the games is no inconvenience at all. And I still haven’t gone, and it would be 100% free, all I’d need to invest is my time to sit in Cassell.
I could go for free, and I’m passing. Like you guys mentioned…paying customers really don’t have much of a reason to attend, unless they’re rooting for the road teams, are related to or close to someone on the teams, or don’t want to feel like they threw money away on tickets so they actually go even though they’d rather be at a Nickelback concert.
I’d say that giving away free women’s tickets may not even fill the building. Or schedule more doubleheaders with an early women’s game followed by a late men’s game — at the least you’ll have the early-arrivers for the men’s game there for part of the women’s game.
I mentioned Penn State above. They built their new arena about 15 years ago (maybe more), just about when the men’s program tanked after Bruce Parkhill left. They went from competing for A-10 championships and an appearance in the Sweet 16 in the early 90′s to a Big 10 afterthought. Now they routinely curtain off their 2nd level seating, and often only sell half of their lower level — even against the big name teams. It’s sad. The geographic similarities are there between the two schools — both are in areas where the local talent is non-existent and they have to recuit from elsewhere in the state/region. Greenberg may not have been well-liked, but he put Tech basketball on the ESPN map — that was important for recruiting, etc.
RP,
I guess Michigan doesn’t have to worry about losing to Appy State anymore.
The directional Michigan schools better watch out. Everybody in the B10 (isn’t there 14 teams in it?) will be ringing your phones…….
Bob H,
True, the B1G decision is a windfall for the MAC, no doubt. But in theory, at least, a MAC school has a better shot at competing than a 1-AA school, Appy State notwithstanding
@#11 How about 11-21 for 2013? That`s where we`re headed if the last two games are any indication. 5.5th place doesn`t look to bad right now, does it. Plus, I don`t see any 12s in there. Actually, not a bad average when you consider the train wreck left by Stokes and last year`s injury issues. Anybody see Eddie transferring? Replaced by a walk-on and fourth off the bench can`t be good for his psych. I wonder what the average ranking of the other 11 teams for the 8 years Seth had us “5.5th”?
Crooked Road, in your 11;37 post you said “we’ve seen no capital inprovements for non revenue sports in quite a while”. I suggest you ride by the baseball stadium and look around. Majoe dollars spent there. A brand new synthetic field and indoor practice facility. Major dollars pent there. And a great move by Weaver in hiring Pete Hughes as baseball coach. Coach Hughes has done a great job in competing with Miami, FSU, UNC, etc. in a very tough baseball conference.
Interesting that some prefer to point out the negative but overlook the positive. Why is that Crooked Road?
Ralph,
There is no question to me whether SG is a better coach than JJ. He has 15 years more age and like 20+ years more head coaching experience. He should be better, shouldn’t he?
The question with SG was the ceiling being hit and VT getting basically 1 NCAA bid every 10 years or so, which is precisely what happened with any of the more successful VT coaches who pre-dated him (Devoe, Moir, Foster). The wrong turns like Allen, Hussey, and Stokes can’t really be counted, they weren’t here for that long.
That JJ has more possibility to improve from where he now is than Greenberg had can also hardly be debated. Whether he has the potential to do that is another story.
The tale of the tape to me won’t be whether players leave at the end of the season, it will be whether assistant coaches leave. If you are not a great HC, then you need to surround yourself with fantastic assistants (google Al Groh). Note, UVA used to be lights out in WBB when some guy named Auriemma was an assistant. After he left, things were not the same. Ryan was a decent coach, but she looked even better with assistants like him.
Not sure JJ has that great of a staff. Or how loyal they are to him.
Ericka Greene is a sore loser. When asked why he struggled so much in the 1st half against UVa, this was his response:
“Nothing changed. It wasn’t their defense. My shots just weren’t falling. I had some great looks. I didn’t feel like they did anything. Nobody stopped me. I just couldn’t get the ball to go in the basket.”
Bob H, just being devil`s advocate here. Remember, Seth wasn`t fired because of his record rather because he missed a picnic or meeting or some damn thing. Why else would you bring in a coach who wasn`t as good as the one you had. I think Weaver thought he could get someone with a better track record then SG because of the new practice palace and the lure of the ACC. Obviously, he hadn`t done his homework. I agree with you on the assistant coaches. If they were hired in April, they couldn`t have been in to high demand-like for a head coaching job at a Div.1 school.
Here’s a question for y’all to chew on:
What if Weaver had not hired JJ? That would have caused Erick Green to transfer somewhere, and that would have decimated the program in the worse possible way.
I don’t disagree with Green’s assessment on the UVA game, but you can’t blame him. He’s done all he can. This VT team is a bad college version of the old Michael Jordan Bulls —- The Bulls’ record was much worse when Jordan went off for a huge night because it meant everyone else was standing around and watching for 3 quarters, then when crunch time came, they weren’t in the flow of the game enough to step up and win.
Trevor — Green transferring may have hurt the program worse in the short term, but having a better coach would potentially have helped the team greatly in the long run. Green transferring would not have any impact on next season, but JJ’s lack of coaching experience certainly will. I’d have rather sacrificed the short term for a long-term gain. But as it is, we still lost in the short-term by losing guys like Finney-Smith and it looks as though we will also lose in the long haul.
Seth was fired becasue the campus wasn’t big neough for both the JW and SG egos. What really happened is that SG called out JW saying the reasons that assistants kept leaving the VT program (like JJ) was that VT was not anteeing up. Of course, the common denominator in the assistant coaching carousel and the lack of NCAA apperances was none other than SG. The excuses changed each year, but the results did not. And one of the assistants that left the program when SG was there was some guy named Brad Greenberg. Who, BTW, had a less than stellar career at Radford.
There were tons of stories with Greenberg. He kept saying we had to get better facilities to get to the next level, we did get the facillities and we didn’t get to the next level (google Chuck Amato). There was always an outcry about how underpaid he was (top half of the league in standings, bottom half of the league in salaries was the story) and Weaver anteed up and paid him some decent change.
The problem was neither better facillities nor more salary was going to make SG a better coach. SG had one heck of a reputation as being extremely demanding and difficult with his assistants (which might just realte to the assistant coaching carousel yah think?).
SG was a mistake to bring to VT. USF was only happy to see him go. He delivered 0 of his promises at USF and he delivered nothing but excuses while at VT. Even his greatest victory, a win over highly ranked UNC in Chapel Hill, he would exclaim- “I don’t know how we won that game”.
Yep, on that one, I believed him!
Trevor,
Green is a senior. Transferring last year would have meant he surrendered his last year of eligibility for all intents and purposes.
He looked at the NBA but the draft status said he wasn’t going there.
One has to wonder if the team would be all that worse without Green.
#39 Trev, Erick Green commented to the Washington Post last spring that the internet rumor of his interest in transferring was totally false. The rumor was just something floated on the internet by folks eager to see Greenberg replaced. Green flatly denied it. This was after Johnson had left for Clemson, too. Green did threaten to leave AFTER Greenberg was fired, but was never serious about it.
Chew on this too. I don`t know how he could have kept this quiet but what if Weaver thought he had a better coach then Seth lined up. Took about a month or so to work it out and by that time it`s to late to fire Seth for he 2012 record. So he goes with this inane family thing and then his man backs out. After a few attempts he settles on J.J. That almost makes more sense then what we heard at that press conference.
Bob H, I’d say if you took Green out of the mix, you could probably subtract a solid 10-15 points a game when Green is scoring in the mid-20′s and above, because a replacement might barely be a double-digit scorer due to lack of experience. Lopping 10 off their scoring (which would still allow a 15 ppg player, which isn’t bad by most standards), and VT would have a record of 7-17 (assuming they beat Ok State), with no ACC wins. Really, not all that much worse when you get down to brass tacks…still last in the league in practically every category, including the standings, which they already can lay claim to right now.
OJ,
Again, I agree. As the best player on a last place team once questioned why he got traded (when he was the best player they had) he was told- we can finish last WITHOUT you.
We would have beaten the have nots of the world on the schedule. Still, we have had some very embarassing games (BYU comes to mind).
This season is basically….. over.
Agreed, Bob. This point of the season reminds me of junk time in the 4th quarter of a blowout football game. Throw the bench guys into the mix to give them some reps and see what they can do. They will be the future of the program, after all, so might as well kick the tires more than normal to give them game experience and see what needs improving (at this point, for practical purposes, everything), and start building toward next season.
Bob H @42, you are right on part of that. The egos of the two could not co-exist. That is the biggest reason, and same reason the women’s program got torpedoed. Bonnie Henrickson didn’t need VT to match KU’s $, but she didn’t care for him either. In 2001/2, we nearly saw it with Beamer. He didn’t want to deal with him either, until somebody else stepped in, and now he doesn’t have to. He essentially answers to Steger.
I don’t necessarily think you are on target with some other things. Seth is a New Yorker, and that personality rubs some people wrong, and is part of the reason the assistants left. JJ is a great example. He’s a nice guy – Ricky Stokes like, and we see how that works. His players are respecting him. Somebody has to be a jerk on the staff. It usually works when it is the head coach – if you want to win.
Bob H – Sounds like a variant on Ralph Kiner discussing a contract negotiation with the Pirates after he hit 50 homers in a season. They gave him a pay cut telling him “We could have finished last without you”.
I like JJ and wish him well.
CR: you are the character assasin. My response from now on when you write is “yaddayyyaddayyyaddda can’t hear you”.
So, we all can agree that Jim Weaver is part of the problem. I remember when he “moved” Wolffe to coach the women basketball program rather than conduct an exhaustive national search. Several of you ripped into Weaver calling it a lazy hire.
Then, last spring, Weaver embarrassed and threw Greenberg under the bus in the press conference. Oh, he didn’t bother letting him know he was fired until after the press conference.
I have to wonder…why isn’t anybody with influence, usually someone on the BOV or Trustees or whatever boards, isn’t kicking Weaver’s butt on this? Any why isn’t Steger doing anything about it? Are they both so old they are simply counting down to retirement?
Just watched the special on WDBJ 7 on Andrew Rowsey at Rockbridge. Scoring average down to 36. Erick Green leaving VT and no attempt to recruit him at VT. Doesn’t speak very highly of the recruiting.
Hey Bob H, maybe YOU ought to do your math. 4th or higher 5 out of 9 seasons is top third for more than a third. And that’s not even the point. Seth took a team that couldn’t compete in the A-10 and had gone on to never even make the Big East tournament until Seth got there. And then we were 4th or higher 5 of 9 seasons in the ACC?! I don’t care how you slice it, Seth had a VT team that had not been relevant for more than a season back in ’95 for about 20 years.
Yeah I know we got robbed out of some tourney appearances, but we were better than we should have been and better than anyone thought we possibly could be, which is why the guy was ACC COY for two years.
And talk about family, what about a guy who’s entire family embraced VT including his daughters. Seems Weaver didn’t care too much about Seth’s family.
Personnally I think JJ or some of the other assistants complained on their way out the door causing Seth to be fired and then Weaver turns around and hires one of the whiners to replace Seth? Talk about stabbed in the back. Now JJ is stabbing players in the back at the media table to protect his own behind.
CR you’re right on point, so don’t listen to these morons. JJ is awful.
Boohoo Seth Greenberg was demanding of his assistants! Boohoo. These are grown men getting paid very good money to watch kids play basketball. Anyone who let’s a player weigh in on a coaching selection is an idiot (read Weaver), now look what we got. I’m sure he was real popular with the players – how they be liking him now?
@50 One of my favorite baseball stories. Another one is when reporters asked Ruth if it was right that he made more money then the president. Babe said well yes, I had a better year then the president. The fact that Seth was showing a recruit around on the day he was fired shows just how classless Weaver`s actions were. Also, why would an AD have a meeting with an assistant who was leaving the family for reasons other then money. Seth was outnumbered but with a good job at ESPN he has landed on his feet. The basketball program has not.
#51 Trev, in response to your questions on Steger & Weaver, the answer to both is – ‘Yes’. Despite some on here not wanting to hear it, Jim Weaver has been a net negative for VaTech sports. He does balance the books and keep us in the black, which evidently is all Steger cares about, along with football success.
VT has a pretty long history of shorting basketball, back even before Weaver. Weaver has taken it to new levels, though. The quicker he is gone, the better. December 2015 is his personal date, though, and Steger’s not inclined to change that, even with Weaver not working full time very often.
You want to know how uncommitted Weaver is to Hokie basketball? Last spring, he did actually interview Shaka Smart (I think just to say he ‘tried’), but he offered Smart $200K less than his salary at the time to come to Tech. This after Smart had turned down an offer from Illinois that would have doubled his salary. That’s only one example of how uncommitted Weaver is to forging a successful basketball program.
Weaver is an AD but a Football AD. There is clearly zero evidence during his tenure that he is committed to building and establishing a basketball program ( mens or womens), from the hiring aspect only. Lies flood yet the truth trickles and by all accounts Greenberg was about as popoular as a wet blanket within the entire uniniversity community. Anywhere Greenberg has coached is kind of like the feeling you get when you buy a boat, your happiest moments were buying it and selling it.
My guess is Greenbergs tenure at espn will be short lived and he will likely be coaching again somewhere soon, in the Northeast corridor.The coaching carusel starts in a few weeks.
VT Red W,
The point is the ceiling with SG had been hit. We were going no farther than the occasional good team that made the NCAA. The ACC was so weak when SG was here that even though VT finished in the top half 5 years, it still only made the NCAA once during that time.
SG had coached for 12 years before VT and was like a .550 coach, and in his 9 years at VT, it was the same story. That ain’t going to get you to the dance year in and year out, and, he didn’t.
IMHO SG brings little to ESPN. Career .570 or so coach. 3 NCAA appearances in 22 years of coaching. Averaged 17 wins and 13 losses per year over those 22 years, never even sniffed a final four or saw a sweet 16- and this guy is a coaching expert? Ludicrous. He sounds like more of an expert on how to interview well because he sure sold JW, USF, and ESPN.
SG needed to go, but I would have preferred a more high profile hire.
I wanted Greenburg gone after the 2010-2011 season. Some season-ticket holders (more than one)told me they gave up their tickets because of him. Replacing him should have been handled better. I hope JJ turns it around, but we shall see.
You have to remember that Weaver is the same guy that was willing to let Beamer, and his staff, go to UNC. If my memory is right, it was mainly over pay for the assistants. I don’t want him hiring any new coaches.