Five thoughts after Virginia Tech’s loss at North Carolina
Interesting day in Chapel Hill yesterday. If you missed our game coverage, you can get to all of it here.
Now for five more thoughts about the game:
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook.
1. The defense is officially a problem.
After Pittsburgh, it was supposedly a one-game fluke. After Cincinnati, it was supposedly just a handful of plays. What can you say after North Carolina? It’s not a fluke. And it’s not a handful of plays. North Carolina did what it wanted against the Hokies defense, controlling the line of scrimmage most of the day. Running back Giovani Bernard had plenty of runs where he wasn’t touched until he was 8 or 9 yards down the field, a surprising failing for a front seven that was supposed to be the strength of the team. And when Virginia Tech had tacklers there to make plays, he’d elude them. On one instance, he spun out of a tackle by Kyle Fuller and raced 51 yards down the sideline.
North Carolina had a good offense. That should be noted. But this is twice this year now that the Hokies have given up 500 yards of total offense. And in all three losses, they’ve allowed 495 yards or more. The last time that happened to a Bud Foster-coached defense? Never. And it’s only halfway through a season in which every team remaining on the schedule has averaged more than 414 yards per game, with two (Clemson, Florida State) averaging more than 500.
Tech used to be able to rely on one part of its defense. But this year, it’s already allowed a 392-yard passing game and a 339-yard rushing game. It can be beat in both ways, which doesn’t bode well. It’s going to be a tall task for Foster to get this group back playing at a respectable level.
2. Also, help doesn’t appear to be on the way on defense.
A reader in the chat asked how the pre-Shane Beamer recruiting classes affected the defense’s depth, which was a great question I didn’t have time to explore prior to the game. Well, french60wasp at The Key Play had this wonderful breakdown of the situation today (which, I’ll be honest, is probably going to be the crux of one of my stories this week).It shows a pretty consistent string of misses on the defensive side of the ball from 2008-10 that have put the Hokies in their current predicament with regards to depth on defense.
The Hokies will just have to forge ahead with what they have. They’ve essentially played two inside linebackers all year (how much would somebody like Telvion Clark help out if he hadn’t been kicked off the team?). They have five defensive backs that they trust, and a few of those are only marginally and by necessity. And the depth crisis caused them to reshuffle everything on the back end in the offseason, which has a few players playing out of position. (In hindsight, this lack of depth was the most overlooked part by people like myself who asked this offseason if this could be one of Tech’s great defenses.)
The only help on the way could be the eventual return of linebacker Tariq Edwards, who had a death in the family last week and did not travel for the game. He’s still coming back from offseason surgeries on his leg/knee, so his effectiveness remains unknown. Still, that’s the extent of the cavalry. Nobody else is riding in on a white horse. It’ll be up to the guys Tech has on defense to sort this thing out.
3. The offense simply cannot run the ball.
I know I’m not exactly breaking new ground right now, but I think this one has been crystallized after the most recent performance. The Hokies had 40 rushing yards, their lowest total since the 2007 season opener against East Carolina. Twenty of those yards were by its quarterback. You can talk about game circumstances and how Tech had to abandon the run by the end of the game, but the fact remains, when the Hokies wanted to try to run the ball, they couldn’t. Here are the running back totals: Michael Holmes, Martin Scales and J.C. Coleman ran 16 times for 32 yards, a 2-yard average. That’s ain’t getting it done.
You can’t blame the running backs too much (other than Holmes for the costly fumble in the third quarter). The offensive line has done a terrible job of opening holes for them. That’s the reality of this group: it’s just not physical at the point of attack with any kind of consistency. And without that, you can’t have a good running game. You can’t get into consistently good down-and-distance situations. You can’t reliably pick up third-and-short situations. And without either of those, you can’t sustain drives and control the clock, which has always been Virginia Tech’s M.O.
Would it help to have an All-ACC-caliber running back like Darren Evans or Ryan Williams or David Wilson? Yes. Those kind of guys could make things happen even if the blocking wasn’t perfect. But the Hokies don’t have that type of runner active on the roster. It needs the blocking to be well-executed to make anything happen on a consistent basis. That’s simply not happening.
4. The team’s best approach might be just to air it out.
Logan Thomas finally looked like the big-time thrower fans expected him to be. The junior went 26-for-49 for a career-high 354 yards and two touchdowns, with one interception on a deep ball that was slightly overthrown. He made up for it with two beautifully thrown deep balls to Marcus Davis and Corey Fuller for touchdowns. Add in a handful of drops (Dyrell Roberts had a big one early, Ryan Malleck had another one that I remember and Davis had a couple) and you can say that Thomas was pretty sharp on the afternoon, even if the stats say he completed just 53 percent of his passes.
Tech has some weapons in the passing game. Davis, despite the drops, is still the team’s best offensive weapon outside of Thomas. Fuller had a career day with 143 yards and a touchdown, making some big catches across the middle. And Demitri Knowles, in for a concussed Dyrell Roberts, had a breakout day with six catches for 83 yards. That’s three pretty good receiving options, with Roberts figuring to come back at some point soon (you can never tell with concussions). And the line seems to pass block OK. Thomas was pressured some Saturday, yes, but with 49 pass attempts, he was sacked only once. Against a good pass-rushing UNC line, that’s a strong effort. Considering Thomas has looked his best in two-minute situations and the running game has been non-existent, going to the air more often might be a good approach.
It runs counter to everything Virginia Tech believes in — defense, running physically, controlling the clock. But this isn’t the defense the Hokies have had in the past, certainly not one that’s going to shut down pretty good offenses (of which there are many left on the schedule). And the running game hasn’t been up to snuff, so reverting to that run-first offense of Virginia Tech’s past is like banging your head against the wall. The Hokies might have to simply out-score opponents this year to win, and as they have shown, they move the ball best in the air.
5. All that said, the ACC is a hot mess right now. Anyone can win it.
I tweeted it last night and I’ll repeat it here: “An October tradition like no other — the ACC falling out of the national title race.” Florida State’s loss Saturday night to N.C. State struck a blow to the league’s attempt at gaining credibility on a national scale. It looks like it’ll be another season without someone in the national championship hunt. But look beyond the ‘Noles and there are some funky things happening in the ACC. The three teams still unbeaten in ACC play are Duke, Maryland and Miami. Who saw that coming? The league’s two non-conference games this week ended with winless Army beating Boston College and upstart Miami losing by 38 to Notre Dame. One of the teams that had the most impressive performance this week (North Carolina) is ineligible for the league title game. And really, how good are the Heels? They lost to Wake Forest, which lost to Maryland, which was picked to finish last in the Atlantic Division. It’s enough to make your head spin.
So where does that put the Hokies in the ACC race? Like everyone else, smack dab in the middle of it. Here’s the Coastal Division standings right now:
- Miami (FL) 3-0
- Duke 2-0
- North Carolina 1-1
- Virginia Tech 1-1
- Georgia Tech 1-3
- Virginia 0-2
Anybody look like a sure bet there? The only team I really have no faith in winning the division (other than ineligible UNC), is Virginia, which I think had defensive issues that are far worse than what Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech or Miami are going through. Duke looks like a legit threat, but I wouldn’t call it a team that you’d trust to do well at this point. Miami plays UNC, FSU and Virginia Tech in the next three weeks. We’ll see exactly where the ‘Canes stand after that. As for Virginia Tech, no game left on the schedule is a gimme. I’d still expect wins against Duke, Boston College and Virginia, losses to Clemson and Florida State and a toss-up at Miami. That would put the Hokies at either 5-3 or 4-4 in the division. I think the former would still give them a chance to get into the ACC title game (that Miami game is a big one, especially in terms of a tiebreaker). The latter wouldn’t. Whatever the case, the Coastal’s representative this year will be an extremely flawed team. It’ll make for an exciting final two months, though.
October 7, 2012 - 11:33 AM
The 2013 recruiting class is loaded with defensive backs, but even now, I have to wonder if the recruits will de-commit from Virginia Tech and go else where. Or they could see this as an opportunity to contribute right away when they arrive.
As I think about it, I really think the coaches should move Edmunds to linebacker since the running back stables are bursting at the seams with more to arrive next fall.
I completely agree with your 4th point. At this point, Tech may have to abandon ball control offense, and engage in a shoot out. They did it before, I think it was East Carolina when they came back from a 14 or so deficit to win the game. Logan is a good pocket passer when he’s not pressured, and I thought he did really well yesterday. Tech has some good receivers and they might as well use a bit of the Air Raid approach to carry the team.
The special team is still average. Sure, Knowles made a nice return on kickoff, but they allowed a kickoff returned for touchdown. The punt return was simply nonexistent.
Never would I have thought the defense would be this bad. It is a disappointment that they are not living up to the preseason billing as being the best, but again, they lost several bodies they could have used this season due to dismissal, transfers, and injuries.
This is the worst team since 1992. The talent isn’t there to coach. We could easily go winless for the rest of the season. Last years team, with it’s issues, is likely unbeaten at this point. (and very overrated) -We thought that team was bad. What is next?….the whole team just passing out en mass at the line of scrimmage? Seriously though, these kids are in better shape than I have ever been. Compared to me, they are super heroes. In response to poster 1, I would say the the 2013 recruits are salivating at the prospects of making an immediate impact on this team. Beamer has turned around things once before. Can he do it again? Does he have the fire, the drive to do so? I think he deserves that chance. Foster gets the chance too. Stiney….I just don’t know. The current situation isn’t guys slacking. It is guys simply not able. It is guys that, when compared to their opponents, are outmatched. I don’t see how it got this bad. What have?!?! They been doing on recruiting? Did they truly get this snookered? How do people with such demonstrated ability to evaluate talent end up here? Was it laziness? Did they think that once they were the class of the ACC that the good kids simply would come? Was it arrogance? Did they think that it was all coaching? That they could take anyone at all and coach them to the needed level? I myself have no answers for this situation. Andy will get us what answers there are to be had. All I have are questions.
Couldn’t disagree more with David or Trevor. The talent is there. Based on what? The ratings given by the services. Speed, size, strength. We have all the measurables.
As for decommiting? I can’t see it. Why? The schools we compete with have their commitments as well. There are only so many scholorships to go around and as kids commit, even verbally, the other schools shuffle and adjust. Just as we do. Yup. I know that it isn’t over ’till its over and National Signing Day is a long way away.
I might also point out that our program was originally built on kids others overlooked and we got to a National Title Game with those kids plus Vick. Our recruiting success didn’t go big time (nationally ranked) until after that year.
Guys like Gayle, Fuller, Exum, Thomas didn’t just go lame overnight. The talent is good, the team is good. Their performance is poor. Execution is atrocious. Special team play is close to miserable.
This one has to be laid at the doorstep of the coaches, top to bottom.
I am not going to argue that the game has passed us by or that anyone needs to be fired. It is so easy to blame Stinespring but now Saint Foster is having a bad year. Would you really fire him? Not me.
From the look on the sideline I don’t think the coaches can see why the formula isn’t working. It is clear they are frustrated just like the fans.
One thing I do see is that whatever it is that isn’t clicking is not a one week fix. There isn’t a magic wand for this. This isn’t a matter of “cleaning it up”.
I saw the PIT game as a matter of desire and the CIN game as a matter of bad luck combined with a prevent defense. UNC just manhandled us. Well, we all knew that they were loaded with talent. I didn’t expect to get pushed around.
The down year is here as Aaron wrote today. We will all have to live through it. I hate it myself. Yesterday was just painful to watch.
It isn’t time for panic. Its time to go to work.
This season is clearly
Sorry. This season is clearly about next year.
Can you say “time for a coaching change” boys and girls. It should have been done a long time ago, but I guess as long as we could win 9 or10 games aginst inferior teams Hokie management was happy. We always lost the big games. Give Bud Foster the head coaching job, let him hire a great offensive cord. And get rid of all the rest, or TURN OUT THE LIGHTS, THE PARTY’S OVER
Listen folks, no one can deny what Frank Beamer has done for Virginia Tech. He has brought us from so / so to somebody. From what I know, he has done this while maintaining a clean program and updating the facilities to state of the art. Now let’s look at some figures that were compiled by Mark Giannotto / Washington Post.
Beamer all time at VT vs. ranked opponents and bowl games
41-47-1 vs. ranked and bowl games
28-38 vs. top 20
15-31 vs. top 15
7-30 vs. top 10
1-19 vs. top 5
18-13-1 at home
23-34 away from Lane
7-11 in bowl games
18-32-1 vs. non – conference
23-15 vs. in conference
37-25 since 1995-96 season
4-22-1 before 1995-96 season
29-21 since 1999-2000
39-36-1 since joining Big East before 1991 season
2-11 before joining Big East
I am not impressed with our record against the better teams. Now, I realize that the higher you go up the chain, the harder it is, but this record is still not something to make you proud. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen Frank Beamer look out of his element and totally bewildered it big game situations.
Forget about calling for new assistant coaches. They would still be controlled by Beamer and his philosophies. I for one say we need change. And by change, I mean Weaver and the entire football staff need to go. It may take a while for things to settle out, but I’m willing to take that chance. I see nothing good on the horizon with the current leadership.
Frank, I congratulate you on your accomplishments, but it is time for you to enjoy your retirement and grandchildren.
John, +1.
It all starts with the line. VT is weak on both sides of the ball. Zone blockin
g on offense don’t help either.
The philosophy of the current coach and staff is the problem with the program. Call it whatever you want to call it, but it is the problem.
That philosophy includes recruiting, coaching, planning, scheduling, game management, and the general overall approach to everything connected to the program.
Either there has to be a change in philosophy, or a change in the coaching staff, and that includes the head coach and the athletic director.
Forget a penalty here or there, a bad play that just missed in being a big play, an injury, or any other excuse that we read about so much now.
Those things are small things, focus on the big issue.
Look what has taken place at South Carolina, and in the SEC no less, and contrast that to our program. Which program is progressing and which program is regressing? If you need help in answering that question, you are clueless.
John +2. Plus get rid of Weaver. Tech needs a staff that can succeed in the new ACC with the Likes of ND Pitt and Syrc. Do away with the “Old club” and start over
Zman,
Let’s say you are right. (you may well be.) Then did the coaching staff just decide to mail it in this year? Did Foster decide to deliberately try to ruin his reputation as a seperation defensive coach? Did they all just forget how to coach? I think you need to look at the article to which Andy linked regarding 2008-2010 recruiting classes. If this is truly a coaching only issue, I would be shocked. Also, we see top college guys wash out at the nfl level all the time. Why would it not be the same in transition from high school to college? We are a top level team….at div 2 level. We seem to be that ‘step’ off that differentiates the levels. We definitely belong on the field with our opponents. Could averages just went against us for once? By that, take this scenario. Two identically equipped cars come off the same assembly line. One is very much above average, one very much below. The accumulated tolerances went one way for one car, the other way for the other. Beamer and co have shown me what they can do……yes even Stiney is not this bad. This is talent unless all the coaches just have suddenly lost it. If not talent, then mentality of the players. No leader has stepped up on this team. Every team needs a natural leader from within. I have motivated on production teams. It comes down to desire, self respect aside from sheer ability. Of my crews, I always had someone that put forth a bit more. That person would emerge as a natural leader, or I could nudge him that way. I know athletics may be somewhat different, but much of it works the same way. I have also had people with ability that could have been great assets other than an entitlement mentality. That just ruined them. How many on this football team suffer from that? All that being said, we will not ever know exactly what is going on with this team. All I know for sure is that this is a mess. I know that a lot of intelligent people are looking at recruiting from 2008-2010 and what is going on with those recruits. Every Single one has basically gone Uh-Oh. How did we miss this? I have a friend who is a sports writer. He stated it during the GT game. He stated that we have a real lack of depth and talent…..so far I am inclined to agree. He also lamented that we used to be a fun team to watch. It isn’t fun to watch us any more – even when we win it is a tortuous viewing experience. Again, I agree with that. I hope it gets fixed. I do know that I put too much of myself into these games. I let them mean too much to me. I care too much.
Dang autocorrect. foster as a superb mot a seperation defensive coach
I have to agree with 1971 Hokie. Beamer built a good program but VT plateaued and for the the last couple of years has been on a down slope. I first time I really noticed the trend was several years ago, before the Orange Bowl against Kansas I believe. VT was getting in a couple hours of practice a day then hitting the beaches. Kansas got to Miami a day early and was having full contact practices. I remember Beamer being asked about it and his answer was that bowl games should be a reward for the team. Nice answer but wouldn’t it be a better reward to win the game and celebrate all winter? I think he enjoys his lake home and the golf course more than he enjoys coaching and if that is the case then VT should let him enjoy those things full time.
I can’t see that recruiting has ever been the high priority that it should be. VT is too quick to take the commitments from 2 or 3 star players who need to commit early before the 4 and 5s take the openings. VT got Vick because the only other school that showed a lot of interest was Syracuse, everybody else wanted the Curry kid that would up at UNC. I remember that Kevin Jones wasn’t even on VT’s radar until he stopped by on the way home after visiting FSU and left his tape.
The staff has grown complacent, the players either think history wins ball games or they are not being coached up. I was a Tech fan long before Beamer became coach, and I will always be a Tech fan and I think complacency is what aggravates me the most about the performance the last several years. I have grown weary of accepting the status quo. Weaver, Steger, somebody, find a head coach that still has a fire in his belly while the program still has a chance for remodeling instead of rebuilding. Is Lorenzo Ward still part of the family?
Hmmm…interesting times in Hokie-land. Long time fan but this year sure seems different than any in the last 20 yrs. We as fans should overlook the shortcomings of the kids playing…and they are kids. We need to scrutinize the overall coaching strategy for the upcoming year. For example, VT needs to look at recruiting higher end position players and not just skill players (focus on O and D linemen). We need to build on a foundation recruiting class (or two) and prep for the future. The new bowl tie-in system kicking off in 2014 is a good benchmark to focus our potential efforts on.
Anyway, this is an interesting year for us Hokie fans, and honestly, many of us knew this was coming.
I don’t post much and then they are not great posts. having said that I am a long long long time hokie fan from a hokie family. I have paid attention to the tech recruiting and the results over the years. It seems to me that the coaches were very satisfied with the recruiting. This coaching staff has produced some decent years of VT football. I think that VT has been handed a “prove yourself” situation. Sometimes things just fall together – in life and in business. For tech football this is not one of those years. It is “prove yourself” time at VT. My opinion for what it is worth is that Beamer and co will turn it around and show some class before this year is over. Adversity is never a destructive force but a “proving” force. VT will rise to the occasion. VT is my team – all the time. Hope springs eternal. If Frank Beamer WAS a good coach, then he IS a good coach. “Deer in the headlights” look happens to us all “de vez en cuando”. Go Hokies. Rest easy, Pablo has spoken!!
Zman, I have re-read my comment, and I have not questioned the desire nor the talents of the players. I know they played their butt off. My comment about the recruiting class is a legitimate concern and it was also a response to Andy’s observation #2. As David in Salem pointed out, and I concede, the recruits might be eager to get to Blacksburg and compete for the starting job.
I also believe that the spread offense has become Bud Foster’s weakness which was shown last season when Clemson spanked Tech, not once, but twice. The spread offense is tough to defend, even Bud admitted that in an interview a while back. Sure, he said the spread option was a pain in the butt to defend, but the same apply to the spread offense.
Someone once said during the 2008 or 2009 recruting cycle that it takes 3 years to see how well those players panned out. I think we are seeing the results of those recruiting efforts. Again, as I stated earlier, the teams lost depth due to untimely transfers, dismissal, and injuries.
I really think the offense would be better off going to a more spread/Air Raid approach. It suits them well. The offense line seem more suited for pass protection. Thomas has a hell of an arm, and when he has time, he is as accurate as a laser guided missile. Davis, Fuller, Knowles, and Roberts are outstanding receivers who are home run threats every time they touch the football. Coleman is a speed guy around the edge, Holmes is a good off-tackle runner while Scales is a bruising back up the gut.
It may be that Tech might need the offense to outscore the opponents to win games, and hope the defense are able to force stops. I really think if the offense and defense could support one another, Tech can salvage this season.
David, it is hard for me to believe that the services that rank recruiting classes are sooooo wrong about talent. It is hard for me to believe that the way the coaches train and measure strength, speed, agility and so on are “off”. We have big strong guys who are good athletes. They could start at any number of schools. And Oh BTW, it isn;t just me who thinks the talent is there, it is also people who (hopefully) know more than I do – like those who select All-Star teams.
I simply don;t believe that our athletes are inferior to say, PIT or CIN.
Now, you tell me. If our guys are basically as good as any of 50 or so other programs, ‘splain to me where the difference lies.
NC State takes a FSU. ‘splain it to me because on the surface, it shouldn’t happen.
Louisiana-Monroe should not be able to beat Arkansas and if you think that was “just one of those things”, well, how did they take Auburn to OT? ‘splain it to me.
Talent on the field is just one facet of team performance. How does a Bucky Showalter take an undertalented Orioles team so far? How does Joe Saunders, a flyball pitcher with an ERA over 6 take down the Rangers? ‘splain it to me.
Mail it in? Absolutely not. Frustrated? Absolutely yes. I worte last week that I watched the CIN game with a friend of Foster and their comment was that he was very dissatisfied with what he saw on the field.
Well, he recruited them. ‘splain it to me.
Something is wrong this season and I can’t tell you what it is. Byt the information at hand I just don’t buy that our players are inferior when the objective yardsticks don’t support that. But lets say our talent is sub-standard. Well, who recruited them? ‘splain it to me.
The team isn’t executing. Who taught them? ‘splain it to me.
They weren’t ready in PIT. ‘splain it to me.
They got beat in a prevent cover D against CIN at the last second. ‘splain it to me.
If this isn’t a coaching issue I don’t know what is.
I am not in favor of firing Beamer because of a bad season. All teams have them. My point is that the coaches have to accept responsibility when their players aren’t prepared. Period.
It is one thing if the opposition is just routinely better. It doesn’t look that way to me. what I see is sloppy, sloppy execution, no tackling, bad fundamentals, unprepared play and blown coverages. Looks like coaching to me.
Zman,
IF our athletes are as good as most of the other schools, then it IS coaching or a mental/ psychological block on part of the team. If it isn’t coaching it is the ability of the players.
I think it is likely a little of both. I think some of our highly touted recruits were dismissed, transferred etc. I think that for whatever reason, the coaches have not connected with this group as they have most others.
It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season goes.
We cant hold on to a pass, we can’t run the ball,we can’t stop the run, we can’t defense the pass, we can’t return a punt, other than that, we’re fine. The short coach
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG…
For all these “Hokies” who are calling for a change at Head Coach, although I think many of these quotes MUST be from closet Hoo’s, you must be on Crack!!! Time for all Bandwagons to climb off the wagon, and go find another team to “Cheer” for (while they are winning) Of course, once your new team loses a game or two, you MUST find another team.
As for us life-long Hokies, we will be just fine with Frank Beamer as our Head Coach, as long as he wants to be.
Jimmy from Daleville
I will say it again 38-28 Duke next weekend. This team is in shambles…..1-5 in last 6 vs BCS teams and not a power among them. And it will get worse next year unless they recruit about 5 Juco OL which we all know ain’t happening. I am thinking 5-7 this year if we are lucky and Bama destroys them in the opener next year on the way to 4-8. And do t assume Logan will be back….he knows what returns next year and will bail while he still can and leave this year.
Yes I think it is that bad.
It is the entire program, all areas, that is in trouble.
As above statements noted, this has been coming for the last few years.
Some of us saw it coming, and now here it is.
The question is: Where does this go from here?
Well at least the hokies have UVA game to look forward to.
I hope we enjoyed last years Sugar Bowl.
It looks like it will be a while before we see a bowl of that caliber again.
Doesn’t nepotism in CFB often result in this very thing? Self Destruction?
Jimmy,
Need to quit drinking the kool-aide.
I am enjoying reading these responses. Maybe the worm is finally turning and more Hokie fans are seeing what those outside of “Hokie Nation” have known for the past 5-6 years.
We were in the UNC game well into the 4th qtr. There are problems sure but the comments have gone over the top. There is a depth problem no doubt. But it’s not a 22 position depth problem. We saw what happened when Fuller went out with cramps, 6 points off his replacement, which is enough to lose the game.
I’ll take Frank over Nick Saban any day of the week. He runs a clean program. Of course, one of the problems with football players that can read and write is that sometimes they read their press clippings. And the Pitt game showed what that can cause.
Calm down, take a few deep breaths and look around folks.
Some people are just clueless. Those who defend this pitiful nepotism over the past 11 years are idiots. National sport writers and columnists have mocked our offense for years and questioned publicly how Stinespring has been allowed to stay in his job for so long. Many former players have publicly spoken out about the feelings within the team regarding lack of offensive ingenuity, and frustration, even to the media (remember Burchette?). For those wanting to give blame to Foster, the defense is really bad this year and it’s still better than WVa’s and they are undefeated and top 5. How bad does that make our offense? Right. Get a clue. Stop paying a high school coach to be our OC, BEAMER. Folks, get off Foster’s back. That’s just dumb as hell. The man has proven he’s one of the best in the business..but he’s not a genie. Every coach has a bad year. It’s not like he’s had one or two average years the past decade like Stinespring. All donors should start writing in with intention to stop giving until a competent OC is hired.
Two of our three losses this year are to first year HC’s (Chryst and Fedora) at their institutions. If you go back to our Sugar Bowl loss it was also to a first year HC at Mich, Brady Hoke. Which means Frank and his staff are being out coached by brand new staffs that have been at their schools for a year or less. How do these guys come into programs that were either in shambles-Pitt, Mich and UNC- or very close to it and beat us with our 25 year head coach and his staid coaching staff? It’s called HUNGER and MOTIVATION.
It would be fair to Beamer to say that he had both at one time, although he never exhibited the kind of “edge” (read here as killer instinct) that a lot of successful coaches have ( see Saban, Meyer, Miles, Stoops, Kelly, etc). Frank has always been thought of as a nice guy. Now he appears to be a nice guy without the hunger and motivation to keep it going. Look at him on the sidelines- you don’t see him excited or talking to the players or coaching them up. Heck, you don’t see him really talking to anybody. And that includes the coaches on the other end of his headset.
Frank is tired. You can see it in his face and his demeanor. His interviews are a regurgitation of his last. Nothing insightful or really meaningful. Just the same old stuff. This doesn’t motivate a football team or his staff. Unfortunately, his teams now reflect his attitude.
I think he had that NC trophy case built more to try and keep himself motivated and focused than anything else. We all love the guy and will be forever grateful for what he’s done for VT and VT football. But Frank, it’s time to bow out gracefully. The administration has to recognize this too. No one wants to see him stay too long at the fair.
The biggest problem with the Hokies is no offense and that puts yours defense on field for long periods of time with no rest. Bryan Stinespring and Frank Beamer needs to go. Frank Beamer has been in the position too long and I gave him what he has accomplished in the past. Stinespring offense is too preditable because you can be at home or in stands and you know what plays are being call. If we can guess the calls then you know that defense cord. on another teams can figure it out. I’m still not sure if Logan Thomas is true QB because he doesn’t play like one all the time. I would say he would have struggle last year if he didn’t have the talent of Boykin, Croale, and with Wilson running the ball. This year they have average talent in these areas and no true QB. They need to put Logan back at Tight End and gave to QB role to someone else. Beamer needs to GO!!!!
Andy,
Dadi Nicolas is list as a Defenive End/Linebacker he,s 6’3 and fast.Ronnie Vandyke,Alonzo Tweedy,Tariq Edwards (all very fast )Linebackers.The point is Bruce Taylor not the same sense he got hurt.Jack Tyler is great with the Run but not the Pass.Lets play some of these guys!Check on this .Please!
Whoa! Do not need to fire Beamer but coaching changes are needed at season’s end. Esp. on the offense. I do think a change-up of coaches may put some fire back into the team’s belly. I do think we have talent. What happened this year with all the returners from a very good defense last year? I do not know. Sometimes it is just team chemistry. We VT has been on a wonderful 19 year run. Maybe we have hit a bump in the road this year. If you have to point fingers, I agree, they have to point to the coaches.
I was wondering earlier if Foster spent overly much time preparing for GT option offense, thinking he had ‘cupcake’ time to fine tune defense for main ‘acc’ season. Now with basic fundamentals absent, I’m just scratching my head, wondering, period.
This has been an ongoing problem with Hokie Football – fans and players!……Besides playing in a very weak and nationlly insignificant conference (ACC), the Va Tech AD continually schedules “cupcakes” for easy wins and to keep alumni happy……..The problem has manifested itself into consistently being “OVERRATED” every year!!…….Tech wants to be able to hang with “Big Boys” of college football, when in reality they are marginal to good – not great – every year!!!………..Until Tech upgrades their schedule and actually “beat” them, they will never have national recognition and respect!!!!
SCHEDULING MATTERS!!!……………FOUR OF VA TECH’S WINS LAST YEAR CAME AGAINST THE LIKES OF: “MARSHALL, APPALACHIAN STATE, EAST CAROLINA AND ARKANSAS STATE”!!……NOT EXACTLY POWERHOUSES!!……….
VIRGINIA TECH’S ALL-TIME RECORD AGAINST “TOP 5″ COMPETITION: “1-27″ – THATS “ONE” AND “TWENTY-SEVEN”!!!……(1-19) DURING THE BEAMER ERA…………
AND FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH, THAT “ONE” WIN CAME AGAINST NO.2 MIAMI – WHO IS NOW PART OF THE PATHETIC AND WEAK ACC CONFERENCE!!…….
VA TECH FOOTBALL – CAN YOU SAY, “OVERRATED”!!! – NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT, THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND THE TOP 5 RECORD OF “1-27″ AND THERE IS NO “SPIN” THAT HOKIE NATION CAN USE TO JUSTIFY IT!! – OR SHOULD I SAY, “CHOKIE” NATION!!
I wonder how long it will take defenses to adjust to a VT throwing team.
When this season is over (hopefully soon) either Beamer needs to change the offensive coaching staff or Weaver needs to change Beamer. This season should not come as a suprise, in the past the defense has held up the offense in all the close games. Bud Foster is due a bad year he will fix it. However the offense has been going down hill for years but Beamer will not fire his friends, even if it costs him his job. It’s time for a change one way or the other.
I agree totally, and it is the only answer, with Hokie 71 & 78. Beamer deserves a gold watch. All this talk about recruiting, O line and D line is foolishness. I think it is called not seeing the forest for the trees. It’s not the trees, it is the forest. Nothing will ever happen until the people with the BIG money make it happen. That won’t be soon because those ole koots are happy we are no longer losing to VMI and Richmond like in ’78 . With our recruiting zone talent and the farm teams VT could be top 10 every year and really challenge nationally. WON’T HAPPEN ! !
Most of this we should have seen coming and we should not be surprised.
Yes I’m shocked by our inability to stop the run, but remember we were all over GT. (Turns out so was everyone else). We’re still strong up front at DT and DE, but that’s about it. The LB’s have been hurt by injuries and those coming of injuries have really underperformed.
The secondary is attrocious. Why are you not hearing Kyle Fuller’s name much? Because there are so many others to pick on. Look Bonner was absolutely awful last year, why would anyone be excited about him this year. Exum to corner? That means you’re out of options.
On offense, the RB’s are very young and either way too slow or way too small. The receivers have had the worst case of the dropsies I’ve seen in some time at VT, but guys like Danny Coale really spoiled us. Davis has underperformed, Roberts has performed about like what you would expect a guy who sat out two years and was a RB in High School. And more than that Thomas has been seriously off target. I don’t know if it’s the receivers or Logan, but it’s certainly not the balls fault.
We’re going to have to take our medicine this year folks. We’ll probably squeak by Duke, UVA and BC, maybe even Miami if everything goes perfectly, but that will ONLY get us bowl eligible +1 so there’s no room for error.
Here’s the good news. Logan Thomas ain’t going no where with the season he’s having. Kyle Fuller either, plus I think he wants to play with his little bro.
Good lord, JAY. Caps lock much?
What is the importance of a stat against top-5 teams, when you’re not top 5 yourself when you play the game? That’s the only way that stat matters, for anybody.
What win percentage would you call acceptable vs top-5?
I guess we should all schedule like Alabama does. They only played FOUR D1 teams that had winning records going into bowl time last year… FOUR! And they did NOT win all 4 of those. And that stellar record against that all-world schedule got them into the NC game when they couldn’t even make the title game of their own conference.
We can’t all be Prom King.
A little perspective: Bear Bryant had a 6-5 season in his 24th year, and a 6-5-1 season in his 25th… Joe Paterno had a 5-6 season in his 23rd year. Those are arguably the two best college coaches of all time. Both bounced back to have undefeated seasons in a few years.
It is very hard, and relatively rare, for teams to maintain the kind of run VT has had for the last eight ACC seasons. Without question, the Hokies have got some work to do… especially on the recruiting trail… and maybe VT has some retooling to do in the coaching staff and football philosophy.
That being said, a lot of these hysterical people would have fired Beamer after 1992… and VT almost certainly would have remained a mediocre program had that happened. Instead, VT has had a 20 year run that is the envy of over 90% of major college football.
It will take time to fix it, and maybe we have a continued rough season ahead, but I think Beamer has earned the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to fix things.
I think what’s so aggravating to the folks that have actually been paying attention to VT football… is that we could see this coming.
I’m not gonna pretend that I knew that this would be a rough season. I thought we’d be better this year than we’ve proven to be so far. But in looking at the players on the way up, and seeing how the bigger games have operated the last few seasons, I think we knew a down season or two was coming eventually.
But if you ask me, the VT program as a whole has looked like it’s teetering on the edge of taking a step forward, or taking a step backward.
The VT offense has had the benefit of experienced and exceptional athletes that could cover up the deficiencies in the offensive coaching staff. A lot of people have been vocal that the offensive staff is lacking. Now that VT doesn’t have that big-time playmaker, like Randall or Tyrod, to cover up the poor ‘strategy,’ VT’s lack of an offensive identity is shining bright. Actually, it now appears that VT has no offensive plan at all.
In the same way that the stat of win percentage vs top-5 is useless, VT’s record of consecutive 10-win seasons is also useless, because it has hidden the fact that VT’s offense has caught a lot of lucky breaks (in the form of great players/on-field leaders) to get those 10-win seasons.
Maybe that has always been the plan? Maybe the recruiting goal has been to land those one or two big players that can take the game into their own hands and cover up other issues? Maybe that’s why, looking back now, we can see gaps in VT’s recruiting over the last couple of seasons, and we can see positions where VT is going to, and is currently, missing top talent.
I guess the best way to say what I’m seeing is this. Whatever it was that VT was doing when the 10-win seasons started… VT isn’t doing that anymore. Recruiting has gotten off track. Someone somewhere isn’t planning appropriately, and going after players at the positions that VT needs. We’ve got offensive coaches that think that they can just decide to coach offense in a whole new way from what they are used to, just because they want to… and then they wonder why VT looks lost. VT just looks lost out there on the field.
I’ve read the approximately 42 comments. My comment is short. From a global perspective, it is sad that Mr. Weaver has health issues. We wish him well. However,respectfully it is difficult to lead any major organization working 2-3 days a week. Lets start at the appropriate levels, which might also include President Steger, I picture a distant president who may spend his days hidden away in the library reading books. Where is he in all this??
Finally, someone at Tech commented to me “we don’t want Mr. Weaver hiring the next Basketball coach to replace Greenberg” Mr Johnson may be a great person, but not what was needed as our new roundball coach! The patterns are there for the lack of leadership at the top for the school we all love. Think about it??
Techerman oct 8 at 1:23 am – This is the only explanation needed on Techs woes. We have been beaten by three first-year coaches in our last seven games. We have beaten one team of note, of which they (GA Tech) is getting smashed this year. There is no fire from the top. I played for Dooley in 1986. I sure as hell cant compete now at the level I did back then, no matter how hard I try. Beamer has good intentions, but it is over.No question Va Tech has peeked. Write this down, Beamer will finally leave when the program is down. The next coach will find any deeper waters, and be fired. We are 10 years away from regaining the status we enjoyed twp years ago. I hate to adnit this, but it is fact. Its a good thing Weaver didnt expand the stadium further. He knew we had reached the summit. And yes, I am 0-6 the last six neutral games I have attended. There will be no more.
Guess I need to proof read for spelling errors before hitting send. Lets just say I have had enough. No more money going to Tech. No more trips to games. I will watch on TV, but a priority no more. No more Tech jerseys for the kids. Where can I get a small Bryce Harper jersey for my daughter?
HEY HOKIES: Get it in perspective. I am older than two or three of you added together. Class of ’56 when we were the Gobblers. Football is supposed to be a game. At VT, for the most part, it is still a game. Frank B. is not the best, or even one of the best coaches, in college football. But so far as I know he runs a pretty clean program. And he does not have as many “thugs” playing for him as do the top rated schools. Look at the past practices, scandals, recruiting violations, etc. of most of those “big school” coaches. We have not done well against them because we do not have the talent and thugs. Do you want an above average program you can be proud of? Or do you want a top program with athletes who can barely put five words together in a sentence, and couldn’t graduate from a decent high school let alone college. There is such a thing as real talent, and then there is such a thing as only talent. So everyone lighten up. Poor recruiting? Yes. Poor coaching? Yes. Poor motivation? Yes. Poor performance? Yes. If you had followed VT football for as long as I have (60 years), you would have seen this coming ten years ago. You are spoiled. Should Frank go? Yes, he and ALL of the staff. They have outlived their usefulness. I personally hate to see the program go down and Frank have to go out after a lot of bad seasons. But that is his call. Oh by the way, Bud F. is not so great as you all allude to. I don’t know what games you have been watching, but he has had holes in almost every defense he has put on the field in the last many years. He just hasn’t played enough teams to exploit them. How many of you remember the Championship game? We could have won that game going away. All he had to do was put in a fifth down lineman. We had two All American DEs who were tying up four offensive linemen. Secondly, he had to double team Peter Warick(sp?). If he had done those two things – Game over. Keep the faith. Just think. Next year Bama and then third game Ohio State in Columbus. It is going to be a long hard ride. I may not live long enough to see a righting of the ship-of-state. Five years before Frank leaves. Then five to seven years for someone to get the talent to have a winning program. Keep watching. Be reminded that nothing will happen until all of the big (tens of thousands per year) donors start screaming. Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi.