Stealing signals? Hokies play-caller Mike O’Cain rebuffs rumor about last year’s ACC title game vs. Clemson
Like many, Virginia Tech quarterbacks coach and play-caller Mike O’Cain had gotten wind of the rumors, hearing second-hand about a Clemson player saying after last year’s ACC title game that the Tigers knew everything the Hokies were going to do.
So once Kevin Steele was fired as Clemson’s defensive coordinator in the offseason, O’Cain called him and asked point blank if he they knew the Hokies’ signals that night.
Steele’s response, according to O’Cain: “Absolutely not.”
It’s been a popular conspiracy theory among the Virginia Tech faithful trying to explain two flat offensive performances against a spotty-at-best Tigers defense last season.
Clemson, which finished 71st nationally in total defense and was embarrassed in a 70-33 loss to the Mountaineers in the Orange Bowl that led to Steele’s ouster, was amazingly effective in two games against the Hokies. Virginia Tech scored only 13 points in those two games. The Hokies finished with 258 yards and 330 yards in a pair of lopsided losses, well below their season average.
But O’Cain thinks everything was on the level.
“Now, did we have a few little tendencies here or there? Yes. Everybody does,” O’Cain said. “But he had no signals. They did a good job. They had a good plan against us. And you give them credit. And then we didn’t execute real well what we did.”
Turnovers and early missed opportunities sunk the Hokies in the first Clemson game last year. O’Cain said the biggest problem in the ACC championship game was that Tech was unable to build any momentum.
He pointed out a stretch early in the second half as critical. On the Hokies’ second drive, O’Cain thought officials missed a horse-collar tackle on quarterback Logan Thomas, then flagged Jarrett Boykin for offensive pass interference on a third-down catch that would have moved the chains.
Trailing 17-10 and backed up deep, Tech had to punt to about midfield. On Clemson’s next play, it went over the top to Sammy Watkins for a 53-yard touchdown. The game spiraled quickly out of control from there.
“You don’t know how that play is going to change a game,” O’Cain said. “We never could get any kind of momentum. And football, every sport is a game of momentum. We never could get anything going for us.”
There were other reasons. O’Cain noted the inability of the Hokies’ receivers to create space against Clemson’s defensive backs. Clemson loaded the box to take away David Wilson, challenging Tech’s receivers out wide.
“They pressed us and played man coverage and dared us to throw the ball down the field,” O’Cain said. “And we weren’t able to get open very well.”
Now, it’s a new defense Tech will face. Steele was replaced by former Oklahoma coordinator Brent Venables, whose group has had similar struggles this year, giving up 445.5 yards per game, a little over 50 more a game than last season.
O’Cain said Venables has used a lot of eight-man fronts with four down linemen, but against Florida State the Tigers played most of the ballgame in a 3-4 look. He said he’s also seen less man coverage from the Tigers this year and more zone.
“You know they’re looking at that film, because of the success they had against us,” he said. “Whether they take anything from it or not, you don’t know. But when you go back and look, you see what they did to you, how they attacked you, just so not necessarily you know what they do, but at least you’ve got an idea of what you did against them.”
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Here are a few more notes and quotes from Tuesday’s post-practice interviews …
- I got plenty of stuff tonight on running back J.C. Coleman, who I’ll be writing about for Thursday’s paper. Lots of questions about his height. He cops to being 5-7½ but says Tech rounds it up to 5-8. He gets joked on about his height all the time, all in good nature. Cornerback Antone Exum and deputy director of football operations Bruce Garnes are the worst offenders, he said. “We have this little handshake where [Garnes] gets down on his knee and puts his hand all the way up,” Coleman said, laughing.
- Coleman said he idolized Ray Rice and LaMichael James growing up (yes, the LaMichael James from Oregon who is 22 and just now in his first year in the NFL). He’s never seen his height as a deterrent to playing running back, particularly with the success of guys in the NFL like Rice and Jacksonville’s Maurice Jones-Drew, who are both 5-foot-8 or smaller. “It’s crazy that they say the smaller guys can’t do it,” Coleman said. “Because the smallest backs in the league the last couple years, they’ve pretty much led the league in rushing. … I just like the way [Rice] plays. He’s physical, he’s strong, he carries guys. He just does everything well. He catches it out of the backfield. And I just feel like in the future I can emulate him and be like him.”
- Coleman, by the way, got up to 192 pounds in the offseason but says he’s around 185 right now. His goal is eventually to get to 200 in his later college years.
- One last thing on Coleman and I’ll change the subject. Running backs coach Shane Beamer obviously enjoyed the long touchdown runs but said he especially liked what he saw on a few physical runs by Coleman and Tony Gregory earlier in the game. The Gregory run came on an inside zone play. “I kidded with him all last week, when you see that hole open, whatever the little turbo button is on the Xbox or the PlayStation is, hit it,” Shane said. “Because that’s the way you need to be.” Later on, Coleman held onto the ball in traffic at the end of one run and finished it by lowering a hit on a linebacker. “He’s a tough guy,” Shane said.
- A couple injury notes from today: left guard David Wang (knee/ankle) was in blue, as was backup center/guard Caleb Farris. Of the two, Wang was moving around much better. Offensive line coach Curt Newsome said he doesn’t expect Farris to play this week. He said Wang’s chances were “ a little better than 50-50″ but noted that he’s not a trainer.
- Michael Via is inching closer to getting a free sub for having played every position on the offensive line. He’ll likely start at center this week with Andrew Miller done for the year and Farris hobbled. He’s started at all three inside positions in his career, worked at right tackle recently and even took some snaps at left tackle during one spring game. “All of them come pretty natural, I guess,” he said.
- Via said the snap issues last week were due to all the adrenalin after sliding over from guard. He said getting a week’s worth of reps there this week should make that a non-issue this week. Newsome said Via is capable of making all the calls at center. “That’s not an issue because he’s done it at a young age and he’s played the guard position where they all help in communications,” Newsome said. “But he can [do it], because he’s done it and just through reps. But if he didn’t have that experience through center, I wouldn’t be concerned about it.”
- If you missed it earlier, Virginia Tech filled out its 2013 schedule with East Carolina. The teams will play in Greenville, N.C., next year and alternate sites every year through 2020.
October 16, 2012 - 9:59 PM
“a few little tendencies here or there”?
That puts it lightly. I can guess 80% of their plays and I don’t study the scouting report. Who needs to steal their signs?
heck yeah !!! I would have never guessed those qb sneaks on 3rd and anything. I feel better now knowing clemson cheated thus taking away from that clever game plan!!!
Not sure why folks think there had to be a conspiracy for Clemson to beat us last year. They just outplayed us both times.
As for Coleman wanting to get up to 200 lbs, I hope someone tells him he could lose a lot of speed by adding 15 more pounds to his frame. 200 on a 5’7″ guy is a lot of weight, even in football. Let’s hope he gets the opportunity to show his skills in coming games, and doesn’t get pushed back down into the RB blender Shane is currently employing.
Stealing signals? Really? How bad is that? Does anybody really have to steal the signals for the Tech offense? Everybody already knows about this stale, boring, stagnant, offense. Why steal signals? What are they, dumb?
I see the negative nancies have invaded this place.
My question is how did the Hokies offense let Clemson’s terrible defense stop them last season? The regular season game VT scored 3 points and the the championship game only 10 points. I am hearing a lot about the defense, yes the defense is going to have to stop the big plays from happening. But the offense needs to do better than 3 and 10 points this year. The defense seems to be weaker this year and the offense has finally picked it up after the last couple of games. The offense is going to have to answer every possession with a score because the defense is going to have their hands full. Both sides of the ball have to play better than we have seen this season.
/// Clemson player saying after last year’s ACC title game that the Tigers knew everything the Hokies were going to do. //
Then O’Cain must go if he is that stupid !! If I can see it, he is being paid to know it. Anyone can look at the video if they recorded it. I think it was early 3d qtr. Wilson ran right. Before the ball was snapped all 11 Clemson defenders began to move to the point of attack. Even the defensive backs on the Clemson right (opposite side) abandon their lanes and receivers and began to move to the Hokie right. All three linebackers began to slip left before the ball was snapped. How did they know where the ball was going. No offensive line can block when the defense knows where the ball is going to go.
The Clemson defense never did the same when they took a licking in the bowl game with WV.
The Hokies just don’t have bright coaches. Thus, we never win a top 5 game against smart coaches.
It is an issue to look for in the future.
// O’Cain called him and asked point blank if he they knew the Hokies’ signals that night.///
How stupid ! ! O’Cain expects him to admit that Clemson had a lip reader? ! ? Wow!!!!
O’Cain, please call Steele and ask him why the Clemson OC has a huge board to cover his entire face from the camera when he is talking to the booth!! And why does Steve Spurrier cover his mouth when talking?? Look at the NFL coaches, and more than half the NCAA coaches. The Hokies were NOT out played. Six can’t block eleven ! ! SEE THE VIDEO ! I wrote Aaron after the game and pointed it out to him. The Times’ writers should know this. It is no conspiracy, just smart coaches do all they can to win. And Hokies coaches can’t even imagine it. Wow !! We are so 2d rate!!
FWIW..without getting too specific…from a friend that went to a VT coaches function. One of the coaches tells him that after the D coordinator at Clemson was fired, VT paid him to fill them in on why Clemson dominated them in those 2 games. It wasn’t stealing signals from the sideline. One of the VT offensive players had a “tell”. Clemson knew run or pass every play.
Glad to see the negative nancies over here. At least it keeps them off TSL for a few minutes!!
I remain skeptical at O’Cain’s answer. Clemson was the only team last season to actually limit Tech in two games and held them to 13 total points. That was with a veteran offense line, two of the all-time great Hokies receivers, David Wilson, and Thomas himself. Clemson simply loaded up the box, and when they knew Tech was going to pass, their DBs simply sat back in a zone and waited.
I am more surprised more teams aren’t doing the same thing to the Hokies this year.
Considering the performance of the Hokie offense the first 5+ games of the season, I am not sure that opposing defenses didn’t do that – sit & wait for us to tip our hand by our formation, etc.
Stinespring’s bizarre desire to run a half dozen different offensive schemes, each with a half dozen plays (pick the number) makes it much easier to predict what plays might be run. If you run one or two schemes at most, and a couple of formations from each scheme, then you can run 20+ plays from each formation. Stinespring’s way? You’re running maybe 5 plays.
It all reverts back to the lack of skill by Stinespring. He’s been an OC at the BCS level for over a decade now, and we’re still at least a decade behind most of the rest of the FBS teams in our offensive philosophy.
No worries, once Frank Beamer retires in 7-8 years, something might change.
Big win coming on Saturday shock the Tigers!
Not only Clemson, but Pittsburgh and North Carolina not only knew when we were going to run, but where. Ex Clemson coach says they don’t steal signals; then, why do they (Clemson) go to such lengths to mask theirs? Four Color boards behind four coaches/players that move around after each play. Why do they feel the need to go to such lengths? Maybe they know how easy Tech is to read and they are determined not to be had in the same way. I must confess that the issue of a ‘tell’ might have some legs. However, knowing whether or not it’s a run or pass is one thing, but where is another. It sounds to me as if the coaching staff is saying, “it’s not problem”. It’s not the answer I was hoping for. However, points are now being scored and maybe a change was instituted, and the coaching staff is not tipping their hand. Nevermind.
In the ACC Conference game, officials were a bigger problem than any suggested stealing of signals. The two situations O’Cain mentioned were only a few of the bad/missed calls from that crew of zebras. There were questions after the game as to why the best of the best of ACC officials (if such beasts exist) weren’t calling the game instead of the rag-tag gang that was out there. Of course, the conspiracy goes that the front office was pulling for the Clempson win for a better bowl showing.
Of course, good teams play around the officials — but VT isn’t a good team, it is an OK team (last big game won?). As others have said, the offense is so predictable that even those with a small knowledge of the game, while sitting in the stands or watching at home, can pretty much call what play will be run at most any given time in a game. There has always been a tendency to go away from what works when it is working best. Running game going well? Start passing. Passes are going down field for gains? Start running the ball. The Wild Turkey play of a few years ago was used effectively to gain needed yards at critical times. It hasn’t been seen since.
VT has needed a real offensive coordinator for years. It will probably be years before we do, after Beamer retires with his fat pension, annuity, and residuals from endorsements.
I think VT can win! Go Hokies!
I think all of this “motion” this year is a waste of time and energy. I don’t see defenses changing their alignment as a result of it at all. And they haven’t had much trouble stopping VT.
The Duke game was a W, for sure, but keep in mind, it was a big play W. Teams that get dependent on big plays to win games are only slightly better than teams that depend on Special Team to win games.
The only way VT wins Saturday is keeping the defense OFF the field (as has been pointed out by other bloggers also). Ball control, TOP, and no turnovers. It can be done but they have to convert 3rd down alot better.
I predict a long afternoon.
by using the word “Stealing” put’s a real negative spin on this. I have always considered football to be very similar to battle. One team makes a move and the other counters. In Wars we have always tried to get intelligence on the other side. This can be knocking down a dispatch rider or “Windtalkers.” If you can give the other side something to worry about other then plays that are called, I think it is fair. If Clemson broke the Tech Code, more powr to them. I don’t think it should be called stealing. I think breaking the code is a better term.
Virginia Tech is a football program with lots of problems.
Matt Barkely who? Logan Thomas for Heisman and Frank Beamer for Comeback Coach of the Year!
Oh YEAH!
I also recall an article written prior to the JMU game where two assistants on the staff played for Tech in their time. They both said that some of the signals from the sideline are the same ones they knew from their playing days. It does make me wonder if the offense staff aren’t clued in that some of their hand signals for plays are as old as they are.
Dingo_Baby might be on to something. I remember when MV1 played that if it was a designed hand-off he just stuck his mouth guard in his face-mask and executed the play, but if it was a pass play he put the mouth guard in his mouth knowing that he might get contact. Every play, watch the tapes. I’m hopeful for Saturday’s game, but not ready to declare “we’re back!” after 45 minutes of dominating dookie. Sustained offensive drives ending with touchdowns will be key as others have mentioned, to keep our defense fresh and their play makers off the field. Go Hokies.
Frank is correct about the obvious, Tech has a ton of problems. They are beginning to resemble Florida State when the Seminoles program began to go downhill around 2003 and is just now beginning to show signs of life again. There will need to be coaching changes at VT if the program returns to any resemblance of what they have enjoyed a few years ago. The ACC is a mediocre conference at best so it would behoove the VT management to begin some earth-shattering changes. Apart from something very unusual, i.e., injuries, etc, I can’t see VT giving Clemson much of a game.
FIZ- I agree with you. Clemson and others are not doing anything illegal or wrong. Tech is just being lazy. The point is directed toward our coaching staff which seems to say, ‘it’s not a problem’. And, asking a former Clemson coach about it doesn’t leave me warm and fuzzy. The game is tough enough, and announcing or tipping plays ahead of time is a disaster. Stuck record dept; look at what Clemson does with their sideline signals. Why do they do that? They know how easy ‘breaking the code’ can be.
I absolutely condone ‘stealing’ signals. If you signal codes and calls are so predictable or so static, you get what you deserve. Personally, I have no issue with what Belichick did. Who let him in there?? I have thought this whole idea with open practices – even partially open – is a stupid one. The VT offense can be predictable. I have predicted plays accurately in some situations before as have others. I don’t have the expertise to do it play after play after play, but what if I did? If I were Frank, I would be having people try to steal plays left and right from the other teams. “Stealing Plays’!!! No such thing. Tells? Easy way to fix that. Have a bunch of players start doing such things randomly. Make sure Logan is not a ‘tell’ player.
That said, I hope for a VT win against Clemson. It would be nice to beat them, win out, play them again, beat them again. To be honest, I am glad we did not go to the OB last year. New Orleans is much more fun!!!! So much to do around the dome. The OB has Wal Mart………
Well this yr VT has 2 decoys calling plays. So well see if that makes a difference
This is actually embarrassing, that O’Cain called the former DC to “check” and see if it was true. More embarrassing is that he publicly acknowledges he did so.
“player had a “tell” By ‘tell’ I suppose you mean he was giving it away by his eyes, stance, position . . . that is very possible, I had considered that; but that player must be a 7 yr senior, but that problem has existed at least since UNC in 2007.
Desert Hokie: You make a great point about this year. I have seen bigger holes made by this young OL than any VT line in 8 years or more. I think they bought the truth from Steele with a nondisclosure agreement not to go public and hurt his reputation. So O’Cain lies about the deal/facts.
Clemson defense expecting Logan Thomas to just line up under center and FART for 1st downs…since he is so big (according to ESPN).