ESPN’s McShay cooling on Logan Thomas because of accuracy, unloads on Hokies’ offensive scheme
Todd McShay was among the many NFL draft prognosticators to list Virginia Tech’s Logan Thomas as potentially one of the top quarterbacks in the 2013 draft.
But the ESPN draft analyst has cooled on Thomas after a slow start this year and was highly critical of Virginia Tech’s offensive scheme in a teleconference Friday.
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McShay had plenty of praise about Thomas’ potential, saying the quarterback has Ben Roethlisberger-type skills in terms of creating plays and making things happen with his physicality, but after watching the junior this year, he has questions about Thomas’ accuracy.
“Some guys you’re watching them and just throw after throw, it becomes second nature to them,” McShay said. “They can control the trajectory, they can control the cuts. They can control where it’s going. Even if their footwork is a little bit off, they can guide the ball where it needs to be. Or, they get to a point to where as long as their feet are proper, everything else flows together, kind of like a golf swing, if you will.
“And with Logan I don’t see that. It’s almost like watching Shaquille O’Neal sometimes at the free throw line. His hands are so much bigger than the ball that it just doesn’t come off his hand naturally, is the best way I can describe it. So I’m starting to worry about that aspect of it.”
Thomas’ accuracy has dropped significantly from his sophomore season, when he completed 59.8 percent of his passes. That number is down to 53.6 percent his year. He already has eight interceptions after throwing 10 all of last season.
McShay acknowledged that the drop probably has a lot to do with the turnover on the Hokies’ offense, of which he was highly critical. He said Virginia Tech’s wide receivers have been “marginal at best” and the offensive line hasn’t protected, leading to an overall consistency.
He saved his most damning statements for the Hokies’ offensive scheme, however, which he said was “out-dated by 10 or 15 years” and could affect Thomas’ preparedness for the next level.
“I do think the best thing that could happen to him, whenever he does come out for the draft, is maybe go a little bit later,” McShay said. “Maybe get drafted in the second or third round and not have that pressure to play right away. Because I don’t think he’s going to be ready to start from a consistency standpoint.
“And I think knowing what I know coming out of that program on the offensive side, I don’t think that he’s going to be ready from a mental standpoint. He may be a genius or … I have no idea how smart he is as a player. But he’d have to make such an adjustment from that offense to NFL offenses that no matter how smart you are, it’s going to take a little bit of time.”
Despite the harsh words, McShay still gushed about Thomas’ physical tools, adding that it’s still too early to completely tear his game apart.
“Logan Thomas has all the potential in the world,” McShay said. “He’s big, he’s athletic, he’s strong. He throws a really nice deep ball. He can drive the ball down the field. There are flashes that you watch and just say, ‘Man, if he could ever pull it together.’”
October 19, 2012 - 12:32 PM
McShay’s comments on the lack of an offensive scheme at VT should be carved into the desk of every Hokie coach, from Frank Beamer on down. McShay has no dog in the fight, he’s impartial about the Hokies. There’s no pretending that he ‘hates’ us for some mystical reason.
Ah well, let the excuse making commence. It’s no problem. When Frank retires in 7-8 years, and ‘anoints’ Shane his successor, we’ll get to keep on living the dream.
Another egg head throwing out swipes at the offense. (Hey!! they can’t do that to our pledges, only WE can do that to our pledges!!!) What I want to hear is how successful NFL coaches feel about the offensive scheme of Virginia Tech. Those opinions may be worth the penny.
I couldn’t agree with McShay more!!! I am glad to see that folks are waking up to the offensive offensive scheme (yes, I used the two words together purposefully…lol). Perhaps eventually, this will get fixed.
CR, I think you might be surprised about what Shane would change. We cannot know. He is not going to undermine ‘ol dad is he? He has been exposed to other programs. I think he may very well change a few things….that is if he even becomes head coach. There is always Foster. There are other candidates to consider.
I am not necessarily defending our scheme. I would like to know what real NFL coaches, successful coaches, think of it.
Last week, ESPN analyst Weidl was talking about Logan Thomas and his draft potential. Weidl described VT’s offense as being ” vanilla.” Many people who have posted on this blog have been criticized for always complaining about the offensive scheme at tech. Even being described as a small minority who feel this way. I can assure you that there is a large group inside and outside of the fan base who feel the Hokies are lacking on offense. I will say that things have improved on the offense. I am still hoping for some change to the staff. And yes, I still want to keep frank Beamer.
Vanilla is too kind to describe the VT offense based on the rankings of the past 10 years. Even in the Vick years they were not all that high.
The trophy case will remain empty……
Call it “since the wake up” if you will. Assuming that the wake up happened in the first quarter of the Duke game, since the wake up the offensive scheme at Tech scored over 40 points in three quarters. Since the wake up, the Tech defense has not allowed a point scored against. Was the O scheme bad before the wake up or was the execution bad? The argument that Duke had only played mediocre teams before they came to bburg seems to redefine Tech then. Tech would not be just another mediocre team to have reeled off those unanswered points. By definition of results, since the wake up this is a different tech team. This Saturday will speak volumes. Go hokies!!
While Hokies have a lot of NFL players on roster Logan Thomas stinks as a QB. I think he could have made a NFL tight end in another system. The blind love fest of some Hokie faithful on LT is hilarious. He is in the bottom quarter of NCAA QBs and I would honestly choose 8 of the other starting QBs in the ACC before I choose him.
Thanks for the article Andy! You go above and beyond with your reporting. Thanks again.
The only offense that would prepare a QB less for the NFL than VTs is the triple option
Logan Thomas is a good quarterback. He has struggled this year executing. Whether this slump is because of something mental or lack of development because of poor coaching I don’t know. He performed much better last year, and when he is on with his passes he can do some damage to the opposing defense. His receivers have dropped some catchable passes, and as Todd McShay so truthfully stated the o line hasn’t protected. Same song, different year. I am hoping that with the Duke game that VT’ s entire team turned a corner for the positive this season. I still think that VT can beat Clemson tomorrow.
Well at least analysts are talking about it. Maybe whomever is announcing the game tomorrow will bring up Mcshays comments. Might throw in Kiper taking him off the board. Got a question for Bitter. When your asking Stiney do you ever in the back of your mind think DUDE THEY WANT YOU GONE SO BAD ?
I’m sure McShay knows what he’s talking about, but as one poster pointed out, the coaches and NFL scouts are the one who actually evaluates talents. I agree with McShay’s projection of Logan. I think a 3rd or 4th rounder is probably about right.
Crooked Road, his comments should be carved into the back of the empty trophy case that’s being reserved for the crystal football.
Did anyone on the East Coast watch the Ducks “wobble”aka. kill AZ St.? The ESPN crew repeatedly commented on how the ducks change their offensive and defensive schemes to cause confusion. The Hokies schemes do not do this. After Stanford slapped us around two years ago, because of SUPERIOR coaching, Harbough stated to a local reporter that VT schemes were not complicated or too difficult to read. We need new blood in the offensive coaching ranks, and I will bet anyone a nice dinner in San Francisco that VT will never win a NC while Beamer is head coach (and I like Frank and what he has done for the program over the years) I will also bet a nice lunch to anyone that VT will not win the ACC championship
during the next four years with current coaching staff. (I truly hope I lose both bets) but not counting on it.
As a VT fan the truth really hurts. But it’s good to hear from someone outside of the program on a larger platform, who makes a living evaluating talent and the programs that talent comes from, tell the truth about what’s going on at Tech. Remember-McShay has zero bias! He has no reason to dog Tech about it’s offense other than calling it like he sees it and going off what he hears from other knowledgeable people. As do most analysts at ESPN, he more than likely has relationships with scouts/GM’s/coaches/etc who he speaks to frequently that also help frame his opinions beyond just what he sees himself.
The offense is not 10-15 years out of date. That is an exaggeration. Apparently are wide receivers are ready in this offense.
David in Salem. Who cares what an NFL coach thinks? Does the offense suck? Yes. Has it sucked for some time? Yes. Has VTs offense been ranked nationally way below their defense on many occasions? Yes. Is VT a boring offense to watch? Yes, painfully boring. Has any other program ever offered Stiney a job or tried to lure him away from VT. No. And that my friend is all you need to know about the offense. It sucks.
Still Learning makes a great point. Has anyone tried to lure Stiney away? Shouldn’t that happen to any decent coach? Especially one from a respected program. I mean, even a head coaching job at a lower division school should come at some point? That speaks volumes. What a blessing it would be if he was offered a job somewhere and took it! We know that Bud has had offers…..has anyone else? I assume that Torrian gets them too.
Is Logan Thomas a good QB? Good, maybe but not great, definitely not anywhere close to a Heisman consideration. Never thought he was last year, especially after the drubbing Clemson gave the Hokies twice. Against mediocre teams like Duke, Bowling Green, etc., yes a good QB. I think we will see tomorrow which VT team shows up; not playing Duke and it is later in the season and if VT does have anything, we will see it. If not, it is what it is, a 6-6 season. It is looking more and more like Tech is going in a downward spiral much like FSU did in 2003.
I believe the biggest difference in Logan Thomas from last year to this year is simple, Boykin and Coale.
You can say what you want about Marcus Davis being physically impressive, he doesn’t block in the running game and takes other plays off.
Offensive line play is the key to offensive output. The offensive line play this year has been poor for the majority of the year. Some of that may be injuries, but coaching is also a part.
The schemes regarding pass routes are terrible. When if ever do you see the Hokies run a quick slant to the middle, or any crossing pattern. 90% of the passes are to sidleines.
I would say the majority of the problems for Logan Thomas this year are attributed to the lack of a consistent running games, and time in the pocket. Although, he does need improvement in read progression with his passes.
Mel Kiper still thinks high of him and Mcshay is a Kiper wanna-be. Thomas has a gun just they don’t show it when they don’t need to. You play teams like Bowling Green and Duke you don’t show all your card unless you pay to see them.
Logan has had decent pass protection and some good receivers to throw to. He’s looked horrible anyway except for a couple of games. The offense is simple compared to others yet they’ve had to take responsibility from him because they are now making the pre-snap reads and calling in the plays from the booth/sideline. Poor coaching including O’Cain
Logan is a smart guy and definitely has the mind for it. Unfortunately he’s surrounding by some bad coaches
*surrounded*
Physically, Logan Thomas is Jamarcus Russell reincarnated. A physical presence, huge on potential, but hasn’t progressed at all as a QB.
Unfortunately, unlike Russell, his team didn’t win the championship in his sophomore year so he could jump to the NFL and cash in before the pros realize his limitations.
We have one bad year out of the past 19 and we are in a downward spiral??
We are a college team and not an NFL team. If we are going to care what NFL coaches say about us then we need to be given money by the NFL to upgrade so they will say nice things about us. Paleeese! Do we listen to the winning or losing NFL coaches?
I don’t understand how an offense can be out of date, we aren’t talking about a food product here people. The goal is to score points, and it doesn’t matter the offensive style, what matters is that the ball gets into the endzone. The greatest offense in the world will be shut down if the team doesn’t execute it. It kills me to hear people complain about everything wrong with the offense, when at the end of the day it’s all about execution. Plays aren’t designed to lose yardage, or not to score. If a team blocks, runs, throws and catches like they are supposed to then any offense can be successful, whether it’s the spread, pistol, I, wishbone or single wing. The most important thing is to have a gameplan you believe in, stick to it and EXECUTE!!!!
For those who few who think this offense is not out of date or consider it good, ask your self why one of the lowest paid offensive coordinators in the ACC and has been with the team for a very long time, hasn’t been offered a job anywhere else considering the success VT has experienced over the past 20 years? I haven’t looked, but I bet our OC has been with our team longer than any OC in the top 25 and is also one of the lowest paid.
It would not take a lot of money (in terms of coaches salaries) for Stiney to get a significant pay raise elsewhere if anyone thought his schemes were worth paying him a higher salary.
Comment to Big Hokie…I’ve been a Hokie since freshman year ’72, but the simple fact is, when our game plan doesn’t work, we just keep trying the same thing with little or few adjustments! Adds up to poor coaching any way you look at it. Been avidly watching college football for over 40 years and our game plans simply don’t equal the elite teams game plans.
What goes around comes around. The current spread offense is the old run and gun from I think Miss. State. Just added better players and better coaches and walla, current spread. The pistol is a take off from the single wing, just not as sophisticated. So current is a relative term. You just have to have a coaching staff that can recruit and place the athletes in the right system. You’ll see USC’s old student body left and student body right revived soon.Just sayin.
LT stays for another season this would be special!
This offensive staff has no clue how to make in game adjustments none the less half time adjustments, it’s time for some major coaching changes and we all know beamer will never do it. He doesn’t care just as long as he get’s paid he just continues to look the other way and it’s sickening. The big money boosters have to do something their the only ones that can force change. We will continue to get embarrased in big games and lose all the big games we play in as long as old fart beamer is the coach.
The biggest problem is Stinespring. Horrible game plans,no capability to adjust, awful play calling. Logan screwed-up by poor coaching and lack of weapons around him. Marcus Davis needs to ride the pine (poor team player). Gregory an Holmes TOO small for major college football running backs.
On defense, Bonner and Exum couldn’t cover an old couch with a drop cloth.
I think any criticism directed at Coach Stinespring should focus more on not getting the players to execute and perform consistently than scheme. Georgia Tech’s offense is outdated by at least 30-40 years and they have success because they execute. Any offense will work if the coaches get the players to perform.
Speaking of being behind the times 10-15 years , which I agree with , I have another question. Why in the hell do we continue to redshirt all these players when we are so thin in so many positions? Could Joel Caleb really not be helping us at wideout by now if he had been playing all year? What about the Edmonds kid at LB? Even Ryan Wiliams when he was here was redshirted and then gone in 2. Play these kids, and if they truly are not ready then we are recruiting the wrong people
Kiper has the iq of a turnip. The guy is no more accurate or talented in predicting or analyzing than any of you. Do you ever really listen to him? He can’t spell, pronounce simple words or structure grammatically correct sentences consistently. His claim to fame basically is he’s connected at ESPN. McShay has twice the brain power, and provides logical arguments. Remember they also hired our BBall coach as an “expert”.
LT will make a lot of money on sundays. I’m guessing he’ll come back for his senior season and look much better with a more experienced surrounding cast. Despite McShay’s penchant for shining (in light of Kiper), he had LT as a superstar last year in the same offensive system.Kind of inconsistent. The offense this year is also different given the new implementations that everyone was excited about all summer, so LT does have a somewhat different system and entirely different supporting cast. I’ll say this about “nfl coaches’ opinions” regarding our program; Tyrod has received nothing short of enthusiastic acclaim about his knowledge (not talent) since joining the league from analysts, commentators, his position coach, head coach and everyone else who has watched him numerous times.
Correct on the Marcus Davis assessment. Lackadaisical on a consistent basis when he knows he’s not getting the ball. Call it coaching, lack of discipline, but either way it’s simply inexcusable. Talent won’t get you far without that killer instinct and willingness to give 150% every play. Trickle down effect apparently. Remember when Beamer flubber knocked Wilford up side his head that time? Do you ever see that fire in him these days? No, he stands on the sideline with a poker face the entire game. Hell, I don’t even see him getting mad anymore, but rather that weird expression like he sees an unavoidable checkmate within two moves. Maybe he’s eating too much salad. I could be wrong but Foster recently snapchecked the media with his best Tony Montana impression, and a week later the team comes and and wallops Duke. We need some fire. I use to get mad when Jimmy Williams was out there talking smack and getting PF’s every other play, thinking how terrible that looked for the program. Oh, what I’d give to have that fire across the board again.
There are many true statements in the comments here.
15 years out of date that says it all. Tell us something we don’t know. I am a long time season ticket holder and have been to many NFL stadiums to watch the Hokies lose. It’s time for change. Frank needs to step aside before VT does him like FSU and Bowden. Shane will most likely be the next head coach if Frank retires but if he is forced out Shane will go also. Bud’s in his 50′s and has never known anything but Franks brand of FB so that’s not happening.
All is painfully true about our offense. Just not fresh, quick, and attacking like so many good teams. Overall, Franks methodical formula for success has worked well and represented University well. We “coach Up” good talent. We dont get rattled easy if we get behind etc. We just win. Buds D has covered up alot regarding our lack of aggresiveness, innabillaty to
move the chains when we really need to..”cincinnati, Boise State, countless other games”. With our customarily stellar Defense, we would be Undefeated and not having these conversations! GO HOKIES”
The only problem with the Hokie defense – and it has been a problem for a VERY LONG time is Brian Stinesprings style of offensive coordinating – I use that term loosely – it isn’t very coordinated. We used to joke “when will UVA wise up and cut Al Groh loose?” Answer: “When the Hokies cut Brian Stinespring.” Well I hate to say it, but it looks like UVA wised up sooner than we did.