Five thoughts after Virginia Tech’s loss at Clemson
Virginia Tech’s loss to Clemson on Saturday wasn’t all that surprising, but the fact that the defense turned in a noteworthy performance and the chance of upset, as bizarre as it sounds in a 38-17 game, was actually a possibility for a while is what has Hokie Nation bumming today. If you missed my stuff from the game yesterday, you can read it here.
Now for five more thoughts about the game:
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1. This one you can blame on the offense, but don’t expect any midseason changes to the staff/scheme.
Cue the, “Oh, you think so, doctor?” comments. Fans have been quick to blame the offense — and solely the offense — for Virginia Tech’s shortcomings this year out of habit, I think. But honestly, this is the first game I think you can squarely pin on the offensive side of the ball. The entire team didn’t show up at Pittsburgh. The Cincinnati game was full of struggles, but the offense actually came through in the end and, if not for a defensive breakdown in the final seconds, the Hokies would have won. And the North Carolina loss was primarily a defensive failure.
Saturday, the offense was … well, offensive. The Hokies had their chances against Clemson and couldn’t capitalize. The final stats will look somewhat OK. Virginia Tech finished with 406 yards, although a glance at the breakdown will show an inconsistent group that only put together four real sustained drives. And while Frank Beamer touted the 406 yards as a sign that Tech’s offense was doing some good things, he needs to understand that 400 yards in this day and age of college football is average at best. (In fact, Louisville, the 60th-ranked offense nationally at the midway point of the FBS, is averaging 405.6 yards per game.)
This will no doubt intensify the complaints about the offensive coaching staff. They existed when the group put up 525 yards and 41 points against Duke, so of course they’ll exist after this. Beamer sidestepped questions about re-examining the offense during the bye week. ”We’ve just got to keep working,” he said. “Things out there today looked good. If you’ve got 400 yards, you’re doing something pretty good.” Those statements are sure to anger a good chunk of the fan base, but it’s what you get from Frank. Frothing at the mouth about wanting an in-season change to the staff is futile. If Beamer makes changes — and considering the direction of the team right now, I’d say it’s a distinct possibility — they’ll come in the offseason. And he won’t publicly hint at anything before then. (Beamer has talked about coming together as a team any time a question is asked about potential changes.) It’s always been his style and I can’t imagine it will change this late in his career.
2. The coaching staff’s assessment that the team “4 or 5 or 6″ plays away from altering the game’s outcome is technically correct, albeit an incomplete thought.
First of all, this could be said about any game. When you’re talking about as many as six plays hitting or not hitting, yeah, that’s going to alter the outcome of some games. But that goes for both teams. I’m sure Clemson has a few plays it would like back Saturday as well. That doesn’t mean the statement is false for the Hokies, though. There were a bunch of close plays that, had they gone a different direction, would have made things different. The fourth-down call early. The Dyrell Roberts pass early in the second half. The two highly questionable calls early in the third quarter, first on the Logan Thomas “sack” and then on the Sammy Watkins “fumble.” Those are big momentum-turning plays that directly led to points being on the board, so yes, those are major factors.
But those plays are so magnified this year because the Hokies aren’t good enough to have a large margin of error. Columnist Aaron McFarling wrote about this some for his column today. I’m sure in past years Virginia Tech has missed on oh-so-close plays. But it didn’t need those close plays to hit all the time to have a chance. A consistent ground game or more reliable pass-catching threats mean you can move the ball consistently and don’t need to those one-shot plays to hit to stay in games. The Dyrell play was a big miss, but it was a first-down play and the Hokies moved the chains anyway, failing to sustain the drive after that. Tech has relied on that big play to spark its offense this year. What’s lacking is the grind-it-out drives that can be just as effective but are harder, because they require consistency from the entire unit for a long period of time. That’s where the Hokies have lacked this year, and that’s a far bigger problem than missing on a few big plays.
3. It looks like Todd McShay was accurate in his assessment of Logan Thomas’ inaccuracy.
When I posted ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay‘s insight on Thomas’ draft stock the other day, it was met with two divergent thoughts: 1) he doesn’t have any clue what he’s talking about and 2) that’s pretty spot on. I think it’s starting to become clear that it’s the latter. And that’s not a knock on Thomas, whose offseason hype, through no fault of his own, got a little too high (perhaps everyone, myself included, should have waited to see how he handled being The Guy in an offense before jumping to conclusions).
Saturday reinforced those thoughts that the ball isn’t as natural as it could be coming out of his hand. Both of his interceptions were on passes that floated on him, a season-long problem. The first almost looked like he was trying to throw it away out of bounds and overshot it. The second, after he stepped up in the pocket, looked like it just had too much oomph on it. (Logan said it slipped out of his hand.) That’s 10 interceptions now this year for Thomas, which matches his total from last year. Considering what he’s being asked to do this year, throwing the ball a ton to try to get the Hokies back in games late, that’s not an entirely surprising stat. And if Tech continues to ask him to play that way, more will inevitably happen.
There are times when Thomas is accurate and times when he’s not. Those are the tantalizing flashes McShay described. But he remains unpolished. And again, that’s probably to be expected for someone who is still relatively new at the position. I continue to get occasional tweets or emails about playing Mark Leal, which, in my opinion, is utterly foolish. Thomas remains the best option at quarterback for the Hokies and will continue to improve over time. He’s just not the top-five-pick caliber player that many had thought in the offseason. At least not yet.
4. This defense feels like it’s capable of shutting someone down.
You have to give the defense a lot of credit for how it played against the Tigers. Chad Morris‘ offenses aren’t typically held to less than 300 yards. It’s happened three times, I believe, in his 34 games as a college coordinator. Bud Foster‘s crew has now done it twice, both in losing efforts. The 38 points the Tigers put up are misleading. Seven came off an interception. Their other four touchdowns came after getting short fields. Clemson’s starting field position on those four drives: the VT 26, its own 48, the VT 47 and the VT 41. You’re not going to hold a bad offense off the scoreboard with short fields like that, let alone a great one (although the Hokies could have done a better job in holding them to field goals instead of touchdowns).
But the elements of what you’d expect from a Foster-coached defense are there. The line got pressure, registering five sacks. The missed tackles were limited. The secondary got another pick, this one on a nifty play by Michael Cole. The only big play over the top I can remember was the touchdown pass to DeAndre Hopkins over Kyle Fuller. Everything else the Hokies kept in front of them, which was the game plan. And while Andre Elllington ran for 96 yards, Tech held Clemson to 3.0 yards per rush, right about what it had hoped. If you put those elements together on a week-to-week basis, you’re going to have some success and probably not come close to allowing 38 points again. I think this was the toughest offense Tech will face this year and that it has a chance to do some good things against Miami and Florida State in the next few weeks.
5. The Coastal Division is up for grabs, but does that matter to Tech fans?
Miami lost to Florida State, as everyone expected, giving the ‘Canes two conference losses. But Duke beat North Carolina, making the Coastal Division standings look like this:
- Duke 3-1
- Miami 3-2
- North Carolina 2-2 (ineligible)
- Virginia Tech 2-2
- Georgia Tech 2-3
The Blue Devils’ surprising success notwithstanding, that is an ugly group. I still maintain that the division winner will be whoever wins the Miami-Virginia Tech game in a week and a half. I know Duke technically controls its situation, but I can’t see it beating either FSU or Clemson in the next two games, which will bring it back to the pack. If the Hokies get to 5-3 in the division — a distinct possibility with Boston College and Virginia on the schedule late and Miami up next — it should be enough to take the Coastal, even if it comes to a tiebreaker.
The real question is if that matters? Will capturing a watered-down Coastal Division title all that notable? Will playing in an ACC championship game with a 7-5 record be an accomplishment or a joke, like it was when 6-6 UCLA played in the Pac-12 title game last year because USC was ineligible? Sure, there would be an underdog aspect to it that actually might endear this team to the fan base if it could pull it out, but after the string of success the Hokies have had, to get that far with a team as flawed as this year, I can’t imagine it doing much to appease a fan base that sees the program heading in the wrong direction.
October 21, 2012 - 7:53 AM
I only saw the 1st quarter of the game before I had to leave for the wedding of a family member. I honestly thought the no-huddle, up-tempo offense was wreaking havoc on Clemson’s defense, Logan looked sharp, and everybody was holding onto the football.
Then the floodgates opened, apparently, from what I read on my Twitter timeline. It seem there were some questionable decisions the coaches gambled on that ultimately backfired.
I honestly can’t say I was not too surprised Virginia Tech lost. I expected it. What I am more impressed with is the defense holding Clemson below their average. It tells me that Foster is becoming familiar with the Clemson’s offense, while O’Cain/Stinespring experiment is a lab experiment going amok again.
I guess it’s a good thing Tech is on a bye week.
I witnessed some of the same predictable play calling yesterday with the exception of some atrocious attempts at ‘razzle dazzle’. I really think the coaches on offense are clueless on what to do and are reaching for something, anything to give them a lift. Andy is right about the rotating running back situation. 2 dang many !!! Logan has huge accuracy problems but is a better option than Leal. Davis reminds me alot of meangelo Hall attitude wise. Hats off to Bud and the defense. Andy anychance you can give us a breakdown of what coach coaches what on special teams? A lot of fans are suprised to hear Beamer only oversees the unit and I feel it is my job as a loyal Hokie fan to alert the masses. Yes I want change!!!!
An “underdog aspect to it that actually might endear this team to the fan base?” Yeah right!
I’m an alum, have been a donor and season ticket holder since the year I graduated and I’m fed up. I’ve been one of the ones begging for changes to the offensive coaching unit for 5 years now and I’m just totally fed up (as are many other donors/season ticket holders I know). One thing is for certain, I’m not traveling to any more away/ACC Championship/Bowl games until something happens. Frankly, I’d give up my season tickets, but I don’t want to lose my spot. (ha!) I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way.
Even if we do make it to the ACC Championship (I’m hoping we don’t. I don’t want us to get further embarrassed,) I can’t imagine a lot of Hokies making the trip to see this team play. Perhaps making it, losing and then losing whatever crappy bowl we go to, and finishing the season 6-8 will wake Frank and Weaver up and some changes will be made. It’s long past due.
Maybe the VT coaches are sending to time designing uniforms, lets back to back to maron/white with maron helments.
wow!
Fire the entire offense coaching staff and start over. The play calling is sand lot plays. Can’t stand to watch them get killed on the field with stupid play calling.
Fire Stinkey Stiney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The worse thing Beamer ever did was stick that empty trophy case out for all to see! You see that implies your trying to build a nationally ranked championship contender and from what everyone can see Beamer is not doing this! He is just staying the status quo and is happy to just contend for ACC titles. If he was seriously trying to take the team to the next level offensive changes would have been made 5-6 years ago! Truthfully I don’t even get upset with the team anymore because I no longer expect great things from this team! Might as well take that trophy case and put the Hokies National championship from bass fishing in it! Its the only national title VA Tech will ever have because the school does not want to commit the money needed to advance to the next level in any sport!!!
Weaver better act quickly.
You need talent to win. Why would an offensive player want to waste their talent at VT?
UVA is down but UNC looks to be on the rise. UNC has historically taken top level talent out of the Tidewater area. It is time for change before VT becomes a second tier team in a third tier league.
Its not just about what’s going on this season. Look at things in the bigger picture. This offense has been a major liability over the years and is why this program cannot take it to the next level. Sure the D has it’s bad moments at times, but overall they have been the side of the ball that has been reliable over the years. On top of that, there are too many times that the defense is put in terrible back against the wall situations thanks to our poor offense and now poor special teams. Go back to all of the big games we have lost. There is basically one common denomonator-our offense was bad for all or key parts of those games. Throw in special teams errors as well that kill us. I’ve never seen an offense consistantly put themselves in unmanageable down and distances like Virginia Tech’s offense. I’ve never seen an offense play into the hands of the opposing defense like the Virginia Tech offense does. Our offense actually helps the opposing defense a lot mmore than it helps our own defense. It’s pathetic. Now you’re really starting to hear commentators and other outsiders question and almost mock what Tech is doing on offense. This isn’t 1995 anymore Frank! To me we have good enough players every year, we just don’t run an offense nor have the coaching to be that good anymore. Sad but true.
If there’s one change Beamer needs to make mid-season, its to have his coaches stop throwing the players under the bus instead of taking responsibility for their own bad decisions. I’m tired of comments like O’Cain’s “spotlight” one from yesterday. News flash: if the guys aren’t prepared to play, that’s the coaches responsibility too!! The coaches are with the players all week, if they’re not ready for the spotlight, that’s the coaches fault.
I give the coaching staff credit for going out on a limb and changing our offensive strategy to the pistol, one of the biggest changes we’ve ever made. But its not working, and their stubborn defense of their schemes over their players is wearing thin. Can’t be helping recruiting either.
I have been wanting an overhaul of the Offensive staff for years and it is has never been more obvious how woefully behind the times they are. Did you notice the first “sideways pass” or whatever the play is where the QB throws laterally about 20 yards to the wideout? The one Stiney has run about 6-8 times a game for the last 10 years? The Clemson DB actually overan the ball he was so ready for it, or it would have been an easy pick 6. And I honestly think they would rather “establish” the run than move the ball or score points. Most of the elite and modern offenses keep pressure on the defense with tempo and sharp passing and that opens up the run. There is no rhythm, ever, to techs offense. I do agree with Andy though, making changes mid season is not the answer. Not that it would ever happen anyway. I honestly don’t think Beamer will make any changes after the season, he is bigger than the program and Weaver and too stubborn as witnesses by his complete denial that there is anything wrong.
Kudos to the defense for stepping up yesterday. They were in terrible position all day and really manned up.
When the fans wanted change we meant the offensive staff, not the uniforms!
Have you heard anything to the rumors that VT is looking at La. Tech’s offensive coordinator to take over here at the end of the season? IMO, that would be awesome, I’d love to average 50+ points/game. Stop O’Cain from playcalling and fire him. Get Stiney back to coaching the O-line and recruiting the 757 and out of the OC job. He’s an asset to have for sure, but clearly not ready to head up an offense.
Andy. Spot on analysis. AM article also correct in paper. We did not handle adversity in 3rd quarter. Another no~call was the obvious pi on Davis on deep ball. On defender holding arm and other riding his lower body. Oh well. Like to hear feedback on this staff tweak. Dump Newsome and move Stiney to nothing but TE and bring in Frank’s old buddy Fidge as OL and OC. I think his forte has always been protection OL through formations etc. I think the path to this was set with the change in recruiting territories. All other negatives aside Stinespring history in the 757 would offset the hurt feelings in that area of letting Newsome go. I think that adjustment was made as a way to give Newsome one more year, get Stiney back in the eastern area. I think Fridge is about clear of MD obligations to not coach and would not be leaving that much money on the table. Fridge would help in the Baltimore suburbs recruiting. Just a thought that I think would be considered a major move without having to disrupt the whole operation. I do think the staff reassignments of last year kind of had this as a possibility in the back of Frank’s mind.
Our play calling continues to be suspect, typified by the early 4th and goal….great decision, terrible play call. Why do you step back 3 steps in the backfield and hand off to a small (albeit quick) running back when you have one of the nation’s biggest QBs behind center for a sneak?? It just typifies our very offsensive, offensive coordinator…..he needs to be replaced with an offensive mind equal to Foster’s outstanding defensive mind. Wake up Frank, you’re losing support and becoming part of the problem.
So, according to the coaches, Danny Coale is reason for the Sugar Bowl loss. Now Cain says that the problem on offense is that “they need to make plays when their number is called”. I don’t guess it matters that the “numbers” are running up hill with anchors on their legs when Cain calls runs inside the tackles 90% of the time on third and short. It all boils down to recruiting and coaching and this staff is too complacent to do either. It’s time for a change.
This is Logan’s second season as a starting QB.He has a lot to learn. I still think he will be good. It takes time and experience. I think the offense will grow with him and become much better next season. I am not a hokie fan. But the fan of a team who would love to have had a program like the hokies over the years. Nobody wins all the time. Every good program goes through these types of seasons.Get a life hokie fans. Appreciate what you have.
Hang in there Frank! This too shall pass.
Just remind all those nasty folks about those big Beamer Ball wins; ya’ll whoopin’ up Temple and blocking punts against Rutgers.
Your pal,
After the Orange Bowl loss to Stanford they year before last,I read an article in a California paper in which Harbaugh (who is about as honest as it gets) basically said they didn’t have to do a whole lot of game planning to stop Virginia Tech’s offense.
If this staff knew how to run an effective offense we would be 3-0 against Clemson not 0-3 the last 2 years. All 3 of those games the defense put us in position to win. Clemson defense is awful yet we play right into their hands. Of course the Tech coaches never learn. I’ve never seen a coachiing staff so unwilling to change anything or go out of their way to do what it takes to win. But I guess when your jobs are all cushy and you don’t really have anyone to answer to, who needs to accountibility.
My frustration with offense goes back to Mike Vick ERA .We are calling same third and 1 and 4th and 1 plays that we did then .The only thing different is Vick took plays that were busted and and made them into touchdowns. OC and playcaller have to go .The end around play works great against Duke but not against the good teams .
I’d like to know why Stinespring wasn’t available for comment after the game. If he was, then why so much attention to his supposed subordinate, O’Cain? Frank Beamer has protected Stinespring for years from the press. Of course, Stinespring talks to the Roth Report, the ‘company microphone’, where he is consoled repeatedly, and never asked hard questions. That’s hardly ‘real’ media.
Even on the Monday evening radio show, Frank makes sure Stinespring NEVER appears unless it is after a game where the offense has looked good. Bud Foster faces the media, and the radio show, regardless of his defense’s performance. Frank Beamer protects Stinespring to make sure he never is exposed to criticism to his face.
I am glad Coach Beamer’s daughter doesn’t want to be a football coach or she would be on the staff. I believe in loyalty, but not to the extreme that Beamer has taken it. VT is no longer a big time program.
The thought of Tony Franklin – the LaTech offensive coordinator being a desirable hire is nearly as laughable as the thought of Ralph Friedgen being a desirable hire. Here’s why – none, NONE of the Beamer apologists would EVER consider Franklin as a candidate, except for the fact he was once at Murray State. Ooooh, Murray State, where Frank Beamer once was, that MUST make him a wonderful candidate. All in the family, you know.
Friedgen? Old fat white guy Ralph Friedgen? Why is he a candidate? Because of the obvious – he is Beamer’s best friend in the coaching circles. And HE’S supposed to suddenly be a good recruiter? Laughable.
Same mantra that was constantly sung about Shane Beamer, who would NEVER have been considered if not for only one thing – his last name. How’s that 4-headed RB rotation working, Shane?
Any offensive coach hired by Frank Beamer, now, or in the past, MUST conform to Frank Beamer’s offensive philosophy. Over the past nearly three decades, has that philosophy not been ingrained in fans’ minds?
As long as Frank beamer is head coach, this is the offense you’ll get, and you’ll either like it, or some other fan will buy your season tickets. So, get used to it. Frank’s here for another 7-8 years, and he’s not making changes on the offensive side unless Mike O’Cain retires. Stinespring will NEVER, E-V-E-R be replaced while Frank Beamer is in charge. Period.
The VT offense has been outscored in the 2nd half of their last three games with Clemson by 62-7. This from a Clemson defense that has been, over that time, one of the weakest in the nation.
Passing plays from the Randy Moss clone apathetic Marcus Davis are about as stupid as calling a fake rugby punt option in a BCS bowl game for your backup punter. About as dumb as calling an end-around play for your WR that just returned an opening kickoff back over 60 yds. I could give literally dozens of other example over the past five years, but Frank Beamer would just stonewall and deny them, while praising his surrogate son, Stinespring.
Which would be worse, going 7-5, and getting crushed for the second time in a season by either Clemson or F$U? Or actually upsetting that team in Charlotte, then having to play a REAL power team in the Orange Bowl, sporting an 8-5 record?
Which humiliation do Hokie fans prefer? Because if we beat Miami, that’s our choice. Regional humiliation, or national humiliation?
When did you become the voice of Hokie nation? Keep this information flowing, but please keep your thoughts to yourself.
Im not so sure Coleman wouldnt have scored on the play the refs blew dead because there was only the cprner out there oh well!!!
I’m afraid crooked road has it _Straight_ . As a VT grad (78) and life long fan I morn !!
Simple question. Would any team hire Stinespring if he were let go? No wait would any BCS conference team hire him?
Just some thoughts, when was the last time Tech’s defense scored on a pass interception or fumble. When was the last time the special teams blocked a punt or field goal. Sat. they lost the ball on a touch, gave up a short field on a punt and never got to the 25 on kickoff returns. With a few exceptions, the list goes on. I honestly believe the OC panics during the game when the game “plan” doesn’t succeed as expected. There is no secondary position to try and they start pulling s*** out of the air, as most little league coaches do. I don’t know why they don’t throw quick slants across the middle. On both short yardage plays on 4th and 3rd, Clemson had 11 guys in the box, quick slant over the middle was open. We’ve thrown that sideline screen so many times, it’s a toss up on whose going to catch it. Oh well, we’ve heard all of this before. I can quarantee you the finger pointing has started in the locker room. Linemen dogging it on blocks, receivers quitting on routes, running backs missing blocks takes a toll. We’ve had 8 games, freshmen aren’t freshman anymore, so that excuse is gone. QB and receivers not communicating and QB throwing where the receiver is suppose to be but not is unacceptable after 8 games. I know I rambled but whats wrong with this team is much deeper than X’s and O’s. It’s a total meltdown of the coaches and players. Defense shows up, offense is no where to be found. Offense shows up and defense disappears. I just don’t think this group has the committment to put it together as a group. That’s on the coaches.
Andy I think your defense of the offense is offensive. Sorry for stealing your line. I think you know comparing yards yielded by the D with yards gained by the O is often very misleading. We VT fans have spent years watching the O go three and out and the D step in time and time again and do their job only to get worn out because the O once again failed to sustain a drive. Statistical comparisons do not tell the complete story. We cannot tell you why the O spits and stutters as it does but we know when it started and who holds responsibility. True this is the O Beamer wants and it is even more dynamic than those of old. Someone here once commented that even in the Vick era the O was the weak sister to the D, and it was. But that was by design and at least it functioned. The Bustle O was plain vanilla but it worked. The “post modern” O, or should we say Stinespring era, has attempted to incorporate new looks and schemes but has difficulty executing. This despite having in my opinion overall better skill players than in the past. Poor coaching, poor OL recruiting and coaching are the issues which need to be dealt with if this team is to improve. Imagine this team with an offensive coordinator approaching Foster’s level of coaching. We can only wish…
We certainly are having a simply horrid year but Saturday’s game was particularly putrid. To wit:
1. What exactly constitutes a fumble in college football? Can someone explain this to me please? Clemcon fumbled at mid-field. The replay showed clearly that the ball was out before the Clemson runner was down. The announcer was very clear the call would be overturned. This happened again later in the game as well. The first one was really critical to VT because we recovered the funble and Clemson later scored on that posession.
2. What, exactly, constitutes a “sack” in college football? Can someone explain this to me please? Thomas completes a pass after shaking a tackler. Both his feet are on the ground and he is standing upright. The tackler is on the ground. This is ruled a sack. This cost VT a first down when the game was close. Later in the game Thomas was off his feet and in the act of being tackled and the pass was ruled “incomplete”. I really don;t get it.
3. Davis has a ball go right through his hands for waht might have been a 30 yard completion. The replay showed that the Clemson defender had Davis’ right arm firmly in his grasp. The ref was right there. No call. Can someone please explain to me why that was not pass interference?
4. Later, on a Clemson TD, the Clemson receiver pushed off the VT defender to create separation. I mean the replay showed the Clemson receiver with his left hand against the chest of the VT back. Clemson TD, no call.
OK. Our team stinks this year. I can accept that. What I can’t accept is that a close game becomes a blowout because of four game changing calls that all appear to be one-sided and incorrect. I agree they called the fumble the same way twice, once for each side. This is why I obviously no longer know what a fumble is. Somehow I thought that a ball dropped from a runner before he is down was a fumble. Guess not. Wonder when they changed the rules?
I don;t have any sympathy for the “fire ‘em all crowd”. One offensive call was really stupid (the trick play late) otherwise I can’t say the play calling was all that bad.
We just stink but I woudl like to think we didn;t have to compete against the offials, too.
What keeps Foster at Tech??? He is a gem for a loosing cause.. Why do good HS defensive players come to Tech? Sooner or later the defense will have problems due inability to recruit. I think it is beginning to show. The whole program needs to be redirected.
You might wat to re think your analysis of the Cincy game Andy. How can a team win when the offense can’t even get a first down until near half time? This isn’t just about this year for VT fans. We have seen the same stuff over and over for several years running. The problem is the defense hasn’t been able to carry the offense the way it has in the past. Fans have a little more tolerance for the defense because the defense has historically been better at VT. This isn’t just out of habit. The offense has struggled mightily this season with starting extremely slow. With the exception of GT and Clemson, then they struggled to score throughout the rest of the first half . We have watched game after game for years where the defense plays hard and well keeping the team in the game, just to watch the offense not hold up there end of the bargain. We have watched games, bowl games where the o coordinator stop running the ball for no clear reason. Why? That play was working. Guess what Kansas beat us that game. Go back and watch the game. there are plenty more of those examples. This is typical for the offense at VT. The inability to play to the other teams’s weakness. Look at the undersized defender this year, I think at Cincy, who was defending Marcus Davis. Did we use a pass plays to Davis and use that mismatch to our advantage? No. In game adjustments don’t seem to exist at VT on offense. Sorry, I am not feeling the habit of blaming the offense statement.
I think ODU’s coach would be good at Virginia Tech. He definately has fire.
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/odu-football-coach-wilder-were-not-good
There were several bad pay calls Zman. Imo. Not picking on you, cause I understand how you feel. The refs yesterday were terrible. Yes, they cost us a lot and possibly the momentum and position to get back in the ball game. Poor execution and special teams gaffes hurt us as well. But the continual calling the east to west screen plays,which almost got intercepted by Clemson, rarely works. I can’t tell you how many times this play gets called in a game, and Clemson was definitely ready for it. Another example, the 4 and 1 run play with Holmes behind Wang not the best idea. Why was Holmes running in that situation and not the powerful Scales? Why run behind Wang and not Benedict? Find your players strengths and use them to your advantage. I don’t know, these are a few examples. I don’t think most people want to see the whole staff gone. I don’t. I would like to see what another offensive staff could do to help this program continue to grow ad move forward. Coach Beamer has built a wonderful football program at VT. He deserves respect for his accomplishments.
After seeing the 2d qtr I must say the refs threw the game. Maybe not dishonestly, but they blew it. Costly bad calls that may have changed the out come. VT was only 7 points down at 5 min. in the 3d. For this game, and this game only, I have to blame the refs more than Spiny or Beamer. Play call was terrible the whole game as usual, and Marcus drops too many, and Logan misses too many, but I have seen games that bad calls really changed momentum and the Big Mo is the name of the game for football. Defense was better than I heard on the radio.
There are still major coaching problems that I don’t see fixed.
Tough to play Clemson AND the officials and this game absolutely turned on the “sack” of Thomas and the fumble that we’re told to believe was not a fumble. Rule either of those correctly and the offensive stays on the field while the defense rests and the field position flips.
That said, early departures have decimated this team more than I thought they could. And while that’s a good excuse this year, it doesn’t speak to a few years of frustration with the Stiney/Ocain incoherent offense or Newsome’s o-line blocking schemes. IMO, all 3 need to go and should have been booted a long time ago.
757 Resident – You need to go, too. Can’t you find an ODU blog somewhere?
” In the second half of the last three games with Clemson, Virginia Tech has been out-scored 62-7″
Half time adjustments come from the coaching staff.
I won’t be going anywhere Dave in Florida. The truth is that the ODU coach is the only one in the entire state (at the college level) who is VERY serious about winning. Read some of Coach Wilder’s comments, he’s a trip! Tech needs a “head coach” just like him that demands excellence! Foster would make a great head coach too. When the coach is passionate the team is too, only on defense is Tech this intense.
After seeing the whole game over two days I see more strength and talent at Tech than I thought. I see a team getting stronger. I see H.S. coaches unable to coach at the BCS level. They are wasting personnel worse that a Yankee general. I could see this team winning an ACC championship game with good refs and good coaches. Not much chace of that. To paraphrase Gen. Patton, “What a waste of fine talent.”
Hello belk bowl. Maybe. Still got to win 2 of next 4. Hey at less they will get to play in charlotte after all. Message to beams best- back to reality. To win at clemson was asking too much but the season as a whole gets a big fat flunking F grade. Question of the day- do you think stinespring has ever been offered a head coaching job? Badmitton team maybe?
I’m so sick of Beamer do us all a favor and retire, your the most hard headed and stubborn coach ever. No real AD in their right mind would allow this crap to happen year after year do your job weaver and force change. 1 win against top 5 teams says it all! your nothing Beamer!
HEADLINES – VA Tech continues its streak. That’s right folks; VA Tech continues to not be able to beat any quality or ranked opponent. The record speaks for itself. It is awful!!! Look in the dictionary for the meaning of insanity and it will read: VA Tech Football – same old / same old. You don’t change this from the bottom up; you change it from the top down. Yes, I’m calling for Beamer to retire to Reynolds Plantation and play golf every day. He has done a good job, but now he is out of his element and showing it. As long as he is around, expect more insanity!
What I find so disgusting about the refs is that they don’t seem to be competent enough to get replays right. I have seen this several times in more than one game. I don’t understand why they can’t see what is obvious to most everyone else.
BRENT PEASE
Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks/Wide Receivers –
Pay him whatever it takes to get him to Blacksburg
Hey Andy, How about asking some of those big dollar donors what they are thinking about the coaching/recruiting or lack thereof. If they are upset then Weaver will get upset and change will happen. If they keep writing the checks then nothing changes.
757 Resident says, “The truth is that the ODU coach is the only one in the entire state (at the college level) who is VERY serious about winning.”
Really? – There is ONLY one coach in the state of Virginia who is serious about winning?
The rest of the readers can judge your sanity.
Could you imagine tech playing in the SEC, this year or any other? 1 ranked team in 8 games:(
If you cannot run against Clemson then throw in the towel and Newsome and Stinespring too boot!
OL has gotten worse every year Newsome ha been there!
Bob
Dave from Florida, I personally could care less what you or any other reader thinks in regards to my sanity. And if you want to discuss football, do it, but please chill with the school girl commentary. I’m not with that!
Why doesn’t one of the successful coaches from the Beamer football tree return to Blacksburg and take over the program while Frank sits back in retirement and watches the program he built grow into a power? After all this time there has to DOZENS of outstanding coaches Frank nurtured willing to come back and lead Hokie Nation…….right?
One name – Phillip Montgomery, the OC and QB coach from Baylor. Modern offense and he will draw offensive recruits due to the RG3 association. Pay the man. Then find good Oline coach and go at it.
It’s true. Only the money guys have pull. We mean nothing. If we lose to Fl State let’s all march over to the President’s House for a candle vigil. I like that idea.
757 Resident says, “I personally could care less what you or any other reader thinks….”
If you could care less, then you must care.
757 Resident says, “When the coach is passionate the team is too.”
Passion got Mike Stoops a ton of success at Arizona. 41-50 overall, 27-38 in conference games,3 minor bowls in 8 years. And if you know ANYTHING about life outside of the 757, you know he was about as passionate as anyone can get. But let’s put passion above a BCS Title game and 8 major bowl games. Yeah, that’ll work.
757 Resident says, “And if you want to discuss football, do it, but please chill with the school girl commentary. I’m not with that!”
I’m not with that??? Who says that anymore?
How much longer do want this “school girl” to beat you up?
Coach Beamer reminds me of Don Nehlen at WVU. Nehlen won more games at West Virginia than any other coach, led them to the National Champ. Game twice, consistently lost bowl games. Then, got too chummy with his coaching staff, wouldn’t make any changes – even when fans complained. He thought no one could do any better than he did, wouldn’t make coaching changes and finally got fired.
And the coaches that came after, even Bill Stewart, did better. There’s plenty of good coaches out there. There ought to be term limits on football coaches. When you stay there too long, you begin to think you can walk on water.
BTW, the blocking schemes are terrible. On 4th and 1, just move your guy – the one lined up in front of you – straight back 1 yard.
You guys know that RichRod is available, can coach offense, and has had a relationship with Beamer in the past?
Dave from Florida, high school football in Arizona does not compare to high school football in Virginia. That’s fact number one. Virginia Tech has a very solid recruiting base, in fact, Virginia is tied for 5th place with the state of Alabama for putting the most guys in the NFL, so never bring up Arizona again. And I’m assuming that the BCS title game appearance and the 8 major bowls that you speak so proudly of is what Virginia Tech has accomplished under Frank Beamer. That’s pretty good and nothing at all to be ashamed of unless of course you dig a little deeper to see the wins and the losses. Remember the bowl game that Virginia Tech played in a few years back against Tennessee? Tennessee is a school that frequently came into Virginia and took top level recruits. Virginia Tech won the football game. But a “passionate” coach would have sent a message. This was an SEC team, a border rival, a recruiting nemesis so it should have been common sense to beat them bad. Tech won the game but it wasn’t a demolition. Tech could have easily put up 50 or more points on the Vols but decided to go conservative. Where was the killer instinct? When was the last time Tech demolished a team? The last time I can remember was a game against Maryland a few years back. Since then, it is now Tech who is on the receiving end of these beatings: Stanford, Clemson (3X’s), Pittsburgh (for God’s sake), LSU, UNC… Folks now days up in Blacksburg are just happy to beat Duke. That’s not gonna cut it. I’m personally tired of seeing Beamer look like a deer in the headlights everytime the Hokies loose a game that they could have won because the offense sucks. Beamer does not have passion, not like Bud Foster and certainly not like Wilder at ODU. Frank just doesn’t have it. He should have done a complete overhaul to his offense after a humiliating loss to Kansas in one of those 8 major bowls you speak of. Think on that for a minute. Tech lost to Kansas in football. Where’s the passion up in Blacksburg?
Frank Beamer & Don Nehlen have one other thing in common. They are the only two coaches whose careers were spent primarily at the D1/FBS level who won 200 games yet never won a national championship. The only two. Nehlen won 202 games while Beamer is at 251 and counting (much more slowly these days).
Beamer’s given every indication he will stay for several more years before he anoints Shane his successor. That means Frank Beamer may eventually top 300 wins without ever winning a national championship. In fact, with only having coached once for that chance. Thanks to Michael Vick.
It only takes a moment of rational thought for that to sink in. Frank Beamer’s record shows he’s a paper tiger. Or perhaps a paper Hokie. Ready to decimate his alma mater’s football program in his eagerness to capitalize on the success brought by Michael Vick, Beamer was gone to UNC, until his staff refused to follow. How soon so many forget. Empty trophy case indeed…
I did not attend Va.Tech but am a Virginian. For years I have
contribute Thousands of dollars each year and hold 4 season tickets.
Since things won’t change in my time, I am giving it all up.
I can attend Emory and Henry games with out the disappointments and save
lots of money.
x hokie Jim
The comment by upstate hokie is by far one of the deepest I have read regarding the Hokie coaching staff. Where exactly are those coaches?
To sum all of the above statements up into one statement is as follows.
CHANGE is needed in the program, and NOW. The philosophy of this program is not what is needed to advance to a better level of success, and now it is not what is needed to remain at the level of the past years, and that level has been getting worse for years, and some of us saw it coming. Now it is here and we are seeing the results of that unchanging philosophy.
CHANGE is needed, whatever the change is, but it is needed.
As a UVA Season ticket holder for the past 25 years I might remind my few hokie fans that if you continue to gripe and moan and ask for change you might just get something you don’t want. Just look at us. We had a wonderful staff with a HOF Coach in George Welsh, owned the 757, and begin to get gready and want more. People in Charlottesville with Money said lets make a change, so the “old man” (said with much admiration)was forced out. Fast forward 14 years and we are still being haunted by the George Welsh curse.
Keep asking and you may end up the same way
Beamer and Stinespring needs to go. Beamer won’t get rid of anybody because their his close friends or family. Problem is that Va Tech keeps allowing this to happen. If they don’t fire Beamer at least take him out of the coaching aspect of the game and make like a consultant for player relations. Logan Thomas is not a true QB very inconsistent and he doesn’t think with his head but he is athlete. Our offense is easy to predict what we are going to do because our playbook limited. We need a offensive cord. like what they have in Oregon because they are exciting to watch and you don’t know what play are they going to run.. GET RID OF BEAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The stat that matters the most: in VT’s last 8 games against BCS-level opponents, they have 2 wins…one an OT win over a middling GT team in the opener, and the other against Duke. That’s it. Duke, in all honesty, will have trouble winning again this year…and GT will struggle to finish 6-6. That’s not good. It’s pretty pathetic, honestly.
I love to read these comments even if they do fall on deaf ears, there are not going to be any changes at VT. I’m just so glad that I don’t have to listen to the (we have more 10 win seasons than anybody) any more. I would trade all of them for one national championship. GO BEAMER, GO STINNEY, you are doing a great job!!!! Foster will be gone after next year when he gets the million dollar bonus that was set up for staying 5 years. Then what will Beamer do when the only one with any football knowledge leaves? Make Stinney the defensieve cordinator, WOW
I would take 7-5 and coastal div champ in a heartbeat. It would allow us an additional week of practice and development (preparing for the champ game) and each week matters. Anything can happen in a champ game and it would provide the opportunity to go 9-5 and leave a good taste heading into next year. The critical thing is to end this year with a positive taste in our mouth.
It’s always important to take the long view in evaluating a coach. Plus it’s a view that Hokies fans almost never take. Frank Beamer has been and remains a godsend for VT football. He will eventually retire, but he won’t be replaced. That’s just a fact. And I think it’s best to deal with facts. When he does retire, the school should have a new athletic administration in place. Before the school finds the heir to a figure such as Beamer, it must have selected an outstanding AD.
As to the current team, it’s obviously a transition year. The Hokies still have a decent shot at playing in and winning the ACC championship game. How this year ends will have a huge effect on next season, which is important for the program, and for key players, such as Logan Thomas.
Way too many fans are totally unrealistic about VT football. They want an identity change. Frank Beamer has spent years effecting such an identity change. Now that he’s done that, many fans want him to get out of the way so that someone else can do better. That’s not going to happen, not unless Frankie gets fed up with the ingrates.
The irony is, the best option for the school to have realized fans’ grandiose dreams would have been to join the Southeastern Conference. But the biggest barrier to that was the already unrealistic expectations of the fans. The SEC would have been a long-term upgrade that would have required the Hokies getting their noses bloodied for a few seasons. The unrealistic VT fan base would never have stood for that. The program would have fallen back into the rut of running through a variety of coaches, all as the bitter disappointment stewed.
I’ve observed VT football for decades, and the fan base has never really been happy. That grows out of some sort of deep inferiority complex.
It’s definitely counter-productive and a bigger part of the problem than people want to realize.
Seems to me, it should be about enjoying Frank while he’s here and recognizing just what he’s done for the school. That’s the best way to prepare for a smart transition after he leaves.
All this bitter whining is just going to begat more bitterness and whining, no matter who your coach is. An awful lot of the people doing the fussing have never played a single down of football. If they had, they might have a greater awareness of the degree of difficulty that Frank has overcome in building the program to where it is today.
Talk about your rats running from a sinking ship! Fire Beamer? C’mon! Every team has it’s down years. Every team! Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, USC (not so much), Notre Dame (plenty of ‘em), LSU, Ohio State, Michigan…shall I go on? Hokie fans, you’re going to have to grin and bare it. Doesn’t mean you can’t comment though, so here I go…
I wish that when the coaches watch the game tape they would listen to announcer comments. Yeah they’re not coaches, but there is the occassional gem in there. Too often this season we’ve heard “what the heck are they doing (I paraphrased)” or versions of “that’s not the play they should be running.” You are down 2 scores with 8 minutes to go and you go back to running plays up the middle and ice the cake with a receiver pass ACCROSS THE FIELD OF PLAY?! Yes using the run to set up the pass is a great game strategy, but not when you’re down 2 scores and your no huddle offense is eating 20 seconds per play at the line of scrimmage.
The entire offense is struggling, but why are we surprised? A new offensive line that is riddled with injuries, new receivers (or old ones that lack experience) and a running back corps that has us on the edge of our seats to see if Tony Gregory is going to be healthy enough to play? Tony Gregory?! And on the later, what has led to the running back that the coaching staff touted since spring ball sitting on the bench. Simply put they may be decent in years to come, but very few freshmen running backs have the talent to excel.
Defensively, yes I can’t explain their lapses this year. They were gold against GT (but turns out so was everyone else) and they played well enough for us to win other games including against Clemson. Anyone who was not delusional knew that the secondary had some glaring weaknesses with the exception of Kyle Fuller and he has looked surprisingly human this year too.
Let’s look at the bright side. Logan Thomas will be back next year and so probably will Fuller and every other player that has eligibility left. Also for you Stiney haters (and I include myself among that group) this might finally be the year that there is a major overhaul of the offensive coaching staff…but I doubt it. If Frank wants to challenge for one more NC try before he retires he’s not going to get there with this staff and this talent. The talent is not going to get any better, in fact it’s probably going to get worse as UVA challenges in our old recruiting grounds and our star has faded this year. Frank is going to have to find better coaches on offense or accept his fate as the winningest coach on a perrenial show horse.
I wonder if anybody’s noticed that Frank Beamer isn’t wearing any clothes yet. I sure hope not.
This past weekend Duke wins against UNC and Toledo beats Cincinnati.
To Mr. Roland Lazenby One Of The Greatest Comments I Have Ever Saw About VT Football You Sir Are A Great Righter And Sounds Like You Have Coached Before Well Done!!!
It is so easy to weep and wail and claim there is better. So who exactly do you want? RichRod. Really? After West Va and Michigan?
The ODU coach. really?
Foster. Really? You say he would be a great Head Coach. Well no one else seems to agree as he is often interviewed and never selected. And OBTW his defense hasn’t looked great. Who says he can change the offense? On what evidence?
Frank came from Murray State and gave life to a dead program. How soon our fair weather friends forget.
I agree that we have problems with performance on the field. I have my issues with Stiney and Newsome. I don’t understand why we don’t just plow people under, too.
But still we must do something right as no shortage of our guys are in the NFL.
On both 4th downs in the first half, the Hokies had to gain 1 yard. From their offensive formation, I could tell what they were going to run. On the second one, look at the film. At the snap, Clemson’s linebackers and safeties all went to their right to be right there when the running back went left. No running back would have made that yard with 8 Clemson players plugging that hole. If I can figure out what they are going to run, obviously Clemson can. O’Cain’s comments about players making plays is ridiculous. The Hokies are so predictable that they have to give a superhuman effort to make those 4th and ones since the other team knows just where the play will come.
I’m so sick of hearing about what Frank Beamer has done for VT. Good Lord, you would have think he built the school from the ground up with his bare hands! Frank got the team where it is today, but he doesn’t have it in him to take it any further, and he NEVER has. It’s just not in him to take it that extra mile. And the older he gets, the less we see any motivation on his part to move this team further. Look at “Beamer Ball”…it doesn’t exist anymore. And it’s only going to get worse. Along with the current AD and Beamer, the crony system is alive and well. We’re stuck right now with Beamer’s inexperienced son and will be as long as Beamer is here, and we’ve had to live with Stiney for years even though he sucks as a coach. A 5 year old could sit down and tell you every play VT will make in a game and when. It’s the same ole, same ole, year after year. And the recruiters, well, you can hardly blame them for lack of experience and skill on the field, because what player with any great skill is going to want to come to VT? Get real. Wake up. We’re stuck with what we’ve got and it ain’t going to get any better. No real coaching, no motivation, no ability to make great plays…get used to it.
HOKIE FANS!
TECH TALK LIVE! Tonight @ 7pm! Take this opportunity to voice your opinion! Weaver, Foster, Beamer are all going to be guests! If you want change or even if you don’t, now’s the time to speak and speak loud!
While I see a handful of areas where the players failed to “execute”, most of Tech’s issues are due to poor coaching decisions. I have watched Beamer go for it on 4-1 from the red zone instead of taking the points so many times, and every time it backfires. The Florida State BCS game, against Auburn in the Sugar Bowl, over and over. Just get the darn points!!!! Kick the field goal and go up 10-0 quickly, instead you give Clemson momentum.
Our run plays are poorly designed for our talent, and that stupid bubble screen/lateral is so obvious.
Beamer needs to quit being stupid on 4-1, and needs to gut and reform an offense. New OC (we’ve been calling on Beamer to get rid of Stiney now for nearly a decade), get rid of O’Cain and get rid of Newsome.
Or better yet, Beamer retires and Bud becomes HC.
As for Tech Talk Live, perhaps people should realize that they take NO live questions. Everything must be submitted electronically. Bill Roth & the VT staff get to select the questions that are read, and do no followup when Beamer typically dodges the question with his usual ‘coachspeak’. In fact, Bill Roth is usually vocally sympathetic of Beamer & staff, so forget about any real impact. The only thing TTL does is make you more frustrated because of the inane comments from Weaver & Beamer.
Roland made some good points, but he is also way off base on some others. Long ago, VT went from playing big teams (and losing big) under Jimmy Sharpe, who didn’t last very long. His replacement was Bill Dooley, who went to playing easy teams so his record looked good. But by giving him the AD hat, too, VT headed down the wrong path that led to NCAA (and internal) problems in both football and basketball. Beamer came in to a mess, struggled, but was given a chance to continue to fix things. He did that, putting in place the occasional trick and fancy plays that made the game exciting. He also changed recruiting to pick up overlooked players who were OK in a position in high school, but who the coaches saw as athletes that could be built up and succeed in a different position at VT. He brought the program to the ’90s, where it has stalled.
If this were just a “typical” down year for the team, there would probably not be as much complaining or calls for Beamer to retire. But this down year comes after years of poor offensive play, predictable plays from the offense, and a loss of status and respect in the college football world. There have been too many excuses and not enough adjustments (recruiting, in-game, coaches) — and this has been building for years until this seasons “perfect storm” of a thin roster, continued poor play calling, and losses that shouldn’t have been.
Sure, fans are unhappy — but they haven’t always been unhappy, as evidenced by the long string of sell-outs of Lane Stadium and the number of fans who attended bowl games each year (perhaps hoping they would be there when VT finally won “the big one”). But when you can’t pull off a win against a quality team (yeah, Coale’s TD might have won the game, but it should have been in the bag long before it came to that desperation pass), can’t win against top 10 teams, and use a lot of cupcakes in the schedule to make things look rosy, then fans tend to get unhappy.
Will this present spate of unhappiness change anything? Given the recent history at VT (Weaver has been “hands off” on football since he arrived), it is doubtful. Until fans vote with their feet and checkbooks, it is what it is — cupcakes and ACC Championships and marginal recruiting.
Andy, did we watch the same game? Foster’s defense got rung up for 31 points. Pittsburgh, and North Carolina, same results. Gave up a last minute touchdown to Cincinnati when everyone in a four state radius knew they had to throw long. Why does Foster get a pass? Head coach? Not until he fixes his own side of the ball. They played hard against Clemson, but they gave up 31 points, and you open up the blog with the offense was to blame. Really? I’m more concerned with the competency of the ACC officials. One bad call after another. And, the replay booth? Even the announcers were at a loss to explain them. Four really bad calls against a good team on their home field that were each game changers. I have to admit some of the play calls were less than stellar, but my view is to address that issue after the season. But, unlike North Carolina and Pittsburgh where we just universally played poorly, this game was at least partially stolen. Too much crying, yeah, probably.
Foster got lit up against Clemson? Huh? Held them below 300 yards! When you give a team the ball on your 47, 41, 26 your defense is going to give up points.
Oh and on the comment “we have no shortage of players in the NFL”. We do?
Don’t look now but we’re down to a handful and other than Michael Vick there’s maybe 5 or 6 now that get significant reps. I imagine even Duke has that many.
Always the whining about the ‘officials cost us the game!’ It’s so immature & paranoid. Sure there were bad calls that went against us. That doesn’t mean there were bad calls that didn’t go against Clemson, too. Also, it is not possible to have FOUR game changing bad calls. You can only have one. You get a horrible call in the first quarter, but rally back to have another chance to win, but a call goes against you in the 4th quarter that ‘makes’ you lose? Then the 1st quarter call wasn’t a game changer.
But hey, any excuse to keep from assigning the blame to Frank Beamer & staff, right?
Great post from Roland Lazenby. Could not be more right. Having been a season ticket holder since the Dooley era I can honestly acknowledge that as one post stated Frank basically built the school with his bare hands. As Mr. Lazenby can attest his work and successes have put the whole university on a national stage. When he came in nobody had a postive image of VT atheletically or any image of VT otherwise. Atheletic deptartment in such chaos football and basketball in hot water with NCAA. Finacially so strapped serious consideration to dropping back to 1aa or whatever known at that time. Football attendance to the point that EVERYBODY parked behind South Endzone. With the rise of perception of football program so has the demand for admission by general students. Am I am Frank Beamer fan? By all means yes. Do I think some things on football staff need to be tweaked? Yes. Just not as major as everyone else thinks. In relation to one post about recruiting slipping (not so fast). Last years class if I remember was one if not the best in school history. 2013 is shaping up to equal or better. 2014 so far sounds like it could shape up better yet. Mr. Lazenby hit on the same subject I posted a few weeks ago. We have unrealistic expectations. We are not the type of program yet to think every year we should be in NC conversation. Compare us to the schools that are and resources at hand and we are more than maximizing our potential. Folks we are not Alabama, LSU, USC etc. We are building a long term program but are not there yet. Have been a coach and still have a lot of contacts in coaching that will tell you the trust factor of sending your kids to play for someone is second to none with the VT staff. There a lot of seediness in college recruiting you hear of with coaches and handlers but that that is in the minority. Most coaches/handlers really want is right for their kids and someone they can trust to do right by them. Make a lot of changes with who they are used to working with you have to go back and earn that trust over again. If that is the case you then look elsewhere and give somebody else a chance. As UVA fan stated their desires for more than Welsh to Groh opened the door to our instate recruiting dominance. Do we want to open the door for somebody else with major changes. Know all the ramifacations of your decisions before making them.
I don’t want Beamer fired. I just want a new OC and a new O-line coach. I am fine with all of our other coaches.
The recruiting will suffer badly with this season’s results… all the great athletes are going to be heading south of Blacksburg.
I agree that the defense is not the problem, nut rather it is the offense and I pretty much agree with Andy Bitter’s assessment, but I would go further and place the responsibility on the offensive line and its coaches Newsome and Stinespring. It is hard for backs to hit holes that do not exist, as it is for a quarterback to be accurate when he is running for his life!
Since Newsome’s arrival, our O*Line has become less and less aggressive and a passive O-line is the prelude to mediocrity, if not outright disaster. Both of them HAVE TO GO!
As far as Hokies in the NFL, Will Montgomery, Deangelo Hall, and Josh Morgan all start for the Redskins. Jaron Hosley starts for the Giants. Eddie Royal starts for San Diego and that’s just the one’s I can reel off easily. There are quite a few others that are current NFL starters. Not including Vick. There’s six right there!
Full list of NFL Hokies:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/andybittervirginiatechfootball/2012/08/31/wr-jarrett-boykin-makes-final-cut-with-packers-one-of-19-former-hokies-on-active-nfl-rosters/
I noticed that only two O-Linemen made 53 man rosters. I think this says a lot about our coach for them. It’s time he goes buh bye with Spriney.
Hokies in the NFL is a great measuring stick for the VT program! Glad you brought it up.
How many of those NFL quality offensive players spent their time in Blacksburg playing on an offensive ranked outside of the top 100 in college football? It is really interesting when you consider how many were in Hokie uniforms at the same time!
But I’m not paid to analyse football talent? Too bad we don’t know what an expert NFL draft analyst like Todd McShay thinks. He would probably be more credible than any high school coaches defending Frank.
Beamer has no fire we need a young coach that will coach the Hokies to play like their hair is on fire! Beamer is happy with being mediocre!
“89.As far as Hokies in the NFL, Will Montgomery, Deangelo Hall, and Josh Morgan all start for the Redskins. Jaron Hosley starts for the Giants. Eddie Royal starts for San Diego and that’s just the one’s I can reel off easily. There are quite a few others that are current NFL starters. Not including Vick. There’s six right there!” Actually not including Vick you just listed 5, but I’ll grant you there are a few more having success including Chancellor, Jeff King, Ryan Williams, David Wilson and a few more. Let’s say there’s a dozen…out of what 600 NFL starters? Look I’m proud of what Hokies have accomplished in the NFL and am really pulling for Danny Coale, Boykin and Darren Evans to see the field, but I don’t see the home run hitters right now that a team needs to be a top 10 ten team every year. I just don’t think you can point to all this talent in the NFL as some evidence of VT’s success. Heck there are a college teams with more players in one NFL division than that.
I’m sick and tired of fans defending the current coaching staff at VT, and the comment that “every good team has a down season”, and “let’s look at the bright side of things”. There is no upside to this. What have we accomplished against the top teams in the country? How many top 10 teams have we beaten? How many big bowl victories do we have? The last time I felt good about a big bowl game was the Sugar Bowl in 95′ against Texas. X Hokie Jim stated the following in a previous post above –
“I did not attend Va.Tech but am a Virginian. For years I have
contribute Thousands of dollars each year and hold 4 season tickets.
Since things won’t change in my time, I am giving it all up.
I can attend Emory and Henry games with out the disappointments and save
lots of money.”
It seems the only way we as fans can persuade ADJW to direct a change in the coaching staff is by witholding the financial support. We as fans need something to get excited about, and it won’t happen with the current coaching staff. We need an OC who can complement the competent mind of of our DC Bud Foster.
NFL players by college. Haven’t seen a site that counts them all up and ranks the schools by how many they each have.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/v
This graphic is a little hazy, but it has some decent stats.
From 1992-2011, VT had 77 players drafted, 13th most nationally. 47 in last 10 years. 20 in last five.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828a004e/article/which-college-football-program-produces-most-nfl-talent
You people do realize that we are one of only 14 teams to even play in a BCS national championship game, don’t you? And you haven’t forgotten that we have 4 ACC championships since entering the league when most pundits said we would never win one – that’s 4-1 over FSU since entering the league. By the way, the last time we went 2 years in-a-row without winning the ACC title was ’05-’06 and then we reeled off 3 in the next 4 years. SO I don’t know who it is you’re looking for us to be? We’re the benchmark in Virginia, the benchmark in the ACC since we arrived on the scene, and the second-most ranked team in the BCS since its inception. There are over 100 programs who would LOVE to have those facts to boast about. There are 11 in the ACC that would love to have those facts to boast about in the last 9 years.
Like the UVa fan said, be careful what you wish for. It took Beamer 7 years to build this program up from the trash heap. Do you really want to destroy it all because of a bad 8-game start with a program that’s lost huge stars to the NFL, some of which were early exits?
I’ve read other posts comparing Frank Beamer to Don Nehlen. Are you insane? Nehlen had just 2 seasons in 21 years with less than 3 losses, 5 losses or more in 10-of-21 seasons, just 1 conference title, and 4 losing seasons AFTER his first 7 years. His teams were ranked at the end of the season just 7 times in ANY poll.
Virginia Tech languished for a century in nowhereville in college football before Beamer surprised everyone by turning around a program that was in debt and on probation into one which became loved nationally and a featured annual draw on ESPN Thursday night football. Heck, we made ESPN Thursday night football what it is.
The fact that we now draw criticism for our first truly bad season in years (it’s not over, yet, by the way) speaks volumes about how much we have become envied. And the fact that so many posters are going beyond the pale to rip Beamer to shreds speaks volumes to how spoiled so many fans have become.
Rise above the noise and do Virginia Tech proud. We survived a mass murderer. We can surely survive a 4-4 start without losing our minds. We Are Virginia Tech!!!!
Good comment Dave. Couldn’t agree more. For every situation fans have clamored for a coaching change, I would say at least half the time it did not work out the way everyone expected. Most teams probably turn out worse. Take this season with a grain of salt and move on. VT will continue to recruit well (despite the subpar season), and continue to build. Hey, the way I am starting to see it is that we will probably bring back a good group next year on defense and at some of the skill positions. The OL however, is going to be in major trouble next year if some guys don’t step up…..
46.WAKE UP BEAMER! Ask yourself what is behind the “poor execution.” I will not leave you hanging in suspense — It’s ALL about poor coaching! It is also much deeper than that,,, it’s predictable and unsophisticated play calling. You continue to stick by Stiney, O’Caine and Newsome with a blind vigilance while at the same time blaming the players for the ills of your program. Your loyalty to Stiney has come at the detriment of program.
I am afraid Beamer has become content setting his sights reaching a conference championship game in an otherwise weak conference that garners no respect. Beamer’s delusions of grandeur every season of playing for the national championship are just that, delusions and every year I just laugh. VT continues to be out coached and out played anytime they play against the “big boys.”
Even when the program reaches a BCS game by default as a result of dominating inferior opponents in the ACC, the offense continues to perform at a subpar level – just look at the stats over the last 10 years!!! Every season is like Groundhog Day, the VT defense bails out the underperforming offense, but alas the defense has an off year in 2012 and further exposes the VT coaching staff and offense for what they are, nothing more than a cut-rate offense.
If you’re not careful Beamer you too will fall out of favor just like your peers Bobby Bowden and Joe Pa. The sport is passing you by because you refuse to adapt and acknowledge and address the underlying root cause. Every season you stand on the sideline after a loss with this dumbfounded look on your face as if to wonder what just happened…
This quote/summary says it all about how clueless Beamer has become….
47.“When Virginia Tech led the nation with 41.4 points per game and was ninth nationally averaging 451.8 yards during Michael Vick’s breakout year in 1999, only one team averaged more than 500 yards and two more than 40 points.
Yet those offensive numbers remain the highs of the Beamer era. Virginia Tech has cracked the top 50 nationally in total offense only four times under Stinespring, who has been a lightning rod for criticism over the years.
Last season, with ACC player of the year David Wilson, the school’s two all-time leading receivers, Jarrett Boykin and Danny Coale, four senior offensive linemen, including ACC blocker of the year Blake DeChristopher, and Thomas, the Hokies averaged 413 yards per game, their highest total since 2000 but still one that ranked only 35th nationally.”
Hey Dave – you do realize the BCS is a joke as is the ACC conferance right? There is no statistic you could throw out there that will justify an offense that has only cracked the top 50 nationally in total offense only 4 times since our 1999 team – all while at Stiney has been at the helm.
Perhaps you are content with mediocrity and qualifying/winning an ACC Championship by upending inferior oponents in weak conference, then qualifying by default (deservingly or not) to play in a BSC bowl against some lowly Big East team. Well I am not…
The VT Football program of the past (pre Beamer) is no execuse or justification for the shortcomings of a program that could be MUCH better if only Coach Beamer would get out of his own way!