Virginia Tech agrees to 2-for-1 deal with Old Dominion
Virginia Tech and Old Dominion have agreed to a three-game football series in which the teams will square off in 2016, ’18 and ’19, reports our ODU beat writer Harry Minium.
It’s a 2-for-1 deal. The Monarchs, who begin the transition to the Football Bowl Subdivision level next year, will travel to Blacksburg for games in 2016 and ’19. The Hokies will travel to Norfolk for a game at Foreman Field in 2018.
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Tech and ODU have never played. The Monarchs have only had a football team since 2009 but have had a meteoric rise, going 38-10 in four seasons and making the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs each of the last two years.
They begin the transition process to the FBS next season and join the Conference USA in 2015, before any matchups with Virginia Tech. This is the first game the Monarchs have a home game against an ACC school.
ODU’s Foreman Field currently seats 20,068, although, according to Minium, there have been expansion talks that could make it capable of seating 35,000. That’d be on par with Duke’s Wallace Wade Stadium (34,941) and Wake Forest’s BB&T Field (31,500).
What’s in it for the Hokies?
“Exposure in a hotbed of high school football,” Virginia Tech athletic director Jim Weaver said.
The Hokies now have at least two non-conference games scheduled through the 2019 season, having announced in October an eight-game agreement with East Carolina that goes through 2020.
At some point, Notre Dame will join the schedule. The Fighting Irish agreed in September to play five games against ACC teams every season in football. The plans are for that to start in 2014.
Once that starts, the Fighting Irish will play every ACC team at least once every three years.
Virginia Tech’s future non-conference schedules look like this:
- 2013: vs. Alabama in Atlanta (Aug. 31), vs. Western Carolina (Sept. 7), at East Carolina (Sept. 14), vs. Marshall (Sept. 21)
- 2014: vs. William & Mary (Aug. 30), vs. East Carolina (Sept. 13), at Ohio State (Sept. 20), vs. Western Michigan (Sept. 27)
- 2015: vs. Furman (Sept. 5), at East Carolina (Sept. 12) , vs. Ohio State (Sept. 19)
- 2016: vs. Liberty (Sept. 3), vs. Wisconsin (Sept. 10), vs. East Carolina (Sept. 17), vs. Old Dominion (Sept. 24)
- 2017: at Wisconsin (Sept. 9), at East Carolina (Sept. 16)
- 2018: vs. William & Mary (Sept. 1), at Old Dominion (Sept. 8), vs. East Carolina (Sept. 15)
- 2019: vs. Charlotte (Aug. 31), vs. Old Dominion (Sept. 7), at East Carolina (Sept. 14),
- 2020: vs. Liberty (Sept. 5), vs. East Carolina (Sept. 12)
- 2021: vs. Richmond (Sept. 4)
December 10, 2012 - 7:57 PM
This series will really bring out the doubters and the critics of Virginia Tech football schedules.
As a Virginia Tech fan this criticism will be understood by me, but we fans will have to deal with it or ignore it.
Either way, here comes some criticism.
Let me do the honors. VT has successfully added another cupcake to their schedule; this will greatly enhance their efforts to get back on track with 10 win seasons.
Relax, I remember when we used to play Richmond, William and Mary and VMI…all three, every year. I still haven’t gotten over that loss to VMI. The exposure will be good and we have to play some cream puffs, might as well be them and help them out. Worst case we lose…
sure is incentive for me to keep my season tickets…..not !!!
Looks like nobody takin no chances, …no?
right….
ODU-27
VPI- 13
I normally don’t read Barry’s posts due to the fact he is a troll. Just hapended to this time. I also remember that Barry is a Georgia Tech fan. Let’s see, in the future the ramblin wreck has scheduled Elon, Wofford and Georgia Southern. Nuf said.
Just what does leaving the Big East a year earlier have to do with Notre Dame playing those 5 ACC schools a year earlier? ND certainly does not play BE football, so if they are truly interested in getting the ball rolling, they don’t have to get an ‘early exit’ from the BE to do it anything in football.
This ODU thing just goes to show Weaver, and Beamer have lost their minds. Tech is visible to this ‘hotbed of high school football’ every week, on television.
What is next? A 2-for-1 with Liberty?
Coxster, I’ll take’em. Are they two or four seats? As we move to a modified playoff in the coming years, non-conference games are going to mean less and less. Win your conference and your IN the playoff. To me, its more about aligning yourself in the right conference-ACC,SEC,BIG 10/12,etc. All of these other meaningless non-con games should and will be opportunities to test your team against some tough competition before conference season begins as well as challenge your 2nd/3rd teams against some lesser foes…With the hot bed that 757 is, think UCF and South FL. ODU will be very good and loaded with talent that didn’t make the “eye” test that major D1 programs typically pursue. ODU has potential to be better than ECU and we are stuck with them until eternity. I don’t criticize this move at all in fact I thinks its a great one.
If you can’t beat the cupcakes, i.e., James Madison, why schedule hard-nosed, high-caliber teams? VT has had some good teams and some very good players at times. Still can’t imagine VT ever having a team that can measure up to the likes of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, LSU, etc. Having a really good offense, defense, and special teams all at the same time and playing every game consistently would be pretty special though. Might entice some potential for the future. Go Hokies!!
The Notre Dame thing matters because the Irish start playing those ACC schools once it’s in the ACC with its other sports. I believe that’s when the five games a year begin.
Cupcake, cupcake. Anything to have a winning season, bowl game and money.
Unlike some of the other cupcakes this is probably for recruiting purposes. Hopefully this replaces a “gimme” game instead of adding to the list. GT is on the list for example. I’m glad they’re always there to help the cause
Andy, ND does NOT play BE football. If they want to accelerate that deal, they don’t have to be out of the BE for other sports. That is totally irrelevant. ND football is separate from everything else, or so we are told. They COULD start earlier, if they chose to. Being in the BE has nothing to do with establishing a good relationship with the ACC ahead of time.
And, on this ODU thing, I almost lost it when I read this quote –
“There is no school in American other than Virginia Tech that we would do a 2-for-1 deal with,” Selig said. “This is the last 2-for-1 deal that I will do. But in this case, to have the opportunity to bring Virginia Tech to Norfolk, it was something we needed to take advantage of.
H
Don- There you go with the money thing again. VT doesn’t receive any more money by going to a bowl game especially if they can’t sell their allotted tickets. All bowl game money is divided equally among all teams in the conference. Seems like communism to me
And, due to an unfortunate ‘enter’ key – let me finish,
How big is the crack pipe this AD is smoking? ODU won’t be doing any more 2-for-1 deals? Yeah, right. ODU is lucky to get this 2-for-1. They’ll be fortunate to get 3-for-1′s for a couple of decades. Unless, of course, he wants to schedule a bunch of ODAC teams to play.
Everybody schedules cupcakes.Usually with dollars in mind and not a lack of sense. Gueesing this one was chosen due to being 757 area.A 2-1 is where somebody needs to ask why?? The way ODU has been stepping it up recently judging by this year should make the peeps there very Happy. Lots for ODU to gain and lots for VT to lose. Bet they are already watching the JMU-VT tapes from a few years ago, kinda like a Rocky movie motivational theme.
Can’t say I blame em.
Should be good for recruiting 747!
For the longest time I felt that, with Beamer and Weaver doing the scheduling, Tech would consistantly be an also ran. Ten wins sure, but a program that was not to be taken very seriously. After all the ten wins never come against quality opponents. Now I’m not sure they can maintain the status of also ran. Before Beamer, Tech always played cupcakes and lost, Beamer improved things to the point that Tech could play cupcakes and win. This year the games against cupcakes have been a tossup. Where Tech goes from here will depends on how long it takes the Tech leaders to wake up and step out of their dream world.
Everybody does realize that in the next five years Virginia Tech will play in its non-conference schedule a team that’s won two of the last three BCS titles and could claim a third (Alabama), a team that just went 12-0 (Ohio State, twice), a team that’s gone to three straight Rose Bowls (Wisconsin, twice) and a team that’s currently ranked No. 1 (Notre Dame).
Everybody has matchups like this. Other than Virginia Tech, Alabama plays Colorado State, Georgia State and Chattanooga next year. It’s the scheduling model for a lot of teams. It’s not atypical.
ODU would have beaten VT this season. Sounds like a good move for ODU not so much for VT.
If some way VT could beat Alabama in the opening game next year, they would have an excellent chance to run the table and be in the NC. The only problem might be Georgia Tech. Paul Johnson will have his team ready next season, the game will be in Atlanta.
I don’t think anyone is saying Tech does not have some good football teams on it’s schedule, I think we would all like to see more good teams on the schedule. The difference is Alabama’s conference schedule is a lot tougher than Tech’s conference schedule. When you have cupcakes on your conference schedule you should balance it by playing a tougher non conference schedule. At this point in time comparing the SEC to the ACC is like comparing apples to, well lemons. FSU is climbing back to the top nationally but needs another year (if you are one of the best you can’t be losing to NCSU this year), Clemson is getting there, UNC is on probation and has been going through coaches like a revolving door, I look for Miami to get hit with Penn State like sanctions, except for VT no one else in the league has shown any consistency, Louisville and Pitt should make the conference stronger but not by much, ‘Cuse is still a work in progress. Until the conference as a whole gets better, Tech needs to look outside the conference to build a schedule that will impress the voters, the bowls or the selection committees or whatever the flavor of the day is.
If Bud Foster had played ODU this year, he would have pulled his hair out. With his secondary it would have been a track meet. ODU’s Achilles heel was their defense. I can quarantee you that when ODU plays Tech, the defensive problem will be fixed. They recruit nationally and are bigger than most FCS teams so size is not an issue. Their center is from Ca. and is 6’7″ and 315#. Tech needs these games to restablish themselves in the 757 area and ODU is looking for an early FBS pluck. If tech had ODU’s QB and receivers this year the record wouldn’t have been 6-6 but probably another 10 win season. Don’t underestimate Wilder, A very capable coach. He gives the players credit for victories and has their back on losses.They will not be a cupcake, trust me.
What is wrong with this game? It is a no brainer for VT. 2 games at Lane, a de-facto home game in Norfolk, where every 757 VT target will attend. ODU has already shown they have a formidable program and by then ODU will be in C-USA/FBS. Man, I’m glad some of you aren’t running this program.
All the haters talking cupcake: do you not see Ohio state, Wisconsin, and Alabama on the schedule the next 5 years?
The only cupcake that brings down strength of schedule each year is UVA-c. Yes, the fighting Londonites will add to the W column on VT schedule reliably the next 10 years at least. Enjoy Christmas at home yet again Boo Hoos!!
Ouch. That is a HUGE coup for ODU. The bootstrap up that Frank Beamer & Jim Weaver provided ODU football has done as much to legitimize them as their on field performance thus far, if not more. By scheduling a home game in the series with ODU, that suddenly elevates them to near equal status in the eyes of many, including the intended target audience in all of this – recruits from the 757.
I know that Beamer is highly concerned about the slow loss of dominance in 757 recruiting for the Hokies. However, this maneuver will backfire on him. We already see the arrogance displayed by the ODU athletic director. The head coach – Wilder – is just as arrogant, if not worse. By VT agreeing to play at ODU, they now feel and appear as near equals. Never mind that they’re a long way from being so, perception is everything, especially to recruits.
Now Wilder can blaze a trail through the living rooms of the 757, telling players & parents – ‘Yeah, Tech wanted to schedule us really badly, but we told them they’d have to come onto OUR turf to do it! Just wait until we beat them like JMU did. Don’t you want your son to be the star of that team that is the first to beat VaTech in a game at Ballard Stadium? We’ll get you tickets to be there, of course…’ That will be his recruiting pitch for the next FIVE seasons.
As for ODU’s AD, he wants me to believe that if Ohio State told him they’d do a 2for1 with ODU, he’d refuse? He’d say – ‘NO! You play us home & home, or you forget it!’ Yeah, right. But see, he can talk big stuff now that Beamer & Weaver jointly gave him this golden opportunity to do so. We’ve not done 2for1′s with AppState, JMU, Western Carolina, W&M, Richmond, or any number of other FCS schools we’ve played in the last few decades. But now, we’ve legitimized ODU by giving them one. We’ve just told everyone, in essence, we think they’re the 3rd best program – not team, PROGRAM – in Virginia.
Sure, it was done for recruiting, because Frank Beamer is getting desperate to recapture his lost hold on the 757. The problem is that he & Weaver just made his task much more difficult by establishing ODU as an opponent worthy of a visit from VaTech. As someone above correctly noted – Everybody in Virginia could already see us play, we’re not introducing ourselves to anyone at all. Thinking that recruits are going to come out for one additional chance to see you ignores the fact we’ve been on ESPN Thursday night games twice a year for the better part of a decade, when we were the ONLY game available. We can’t buy those recruits tickets, that’s an NCAA violation. How do they get there? Not to mention, if the game is even remotely close, ODU scores a huge moral victory. A huge one.
This was a strategic blunder made by two people who are past their prime, and who are fumbling while trying to maintain the VT football program, when they should be working to advance it. Very unfortunate.
Oh Barry, I forgot, GT played Presbyterean this year. That’s not even a cupcake, that more like a Little Debbie Nut Bar.
Has Bill Dooley been hired as the new AD??
What a bunch of cry-babies posting here. Always looking for excuses or something to bitch about. Probably the same group crying about having to open with ‘Bama next year, who, by the way, played a “devastating” OOC schedule that included the likes of Western Carolina, Florida Atlantic and Western Kentucky!! Let’s just schedule a bunch of BCS powerhouses every year so they can cry about 8-4/7-5 records or worse. With the exception of maybe ND (and they still play the service acadamies), almost every BCS school schedules a couple of “creampuffs” every year!!
Tech needs to watch out because ODU has an explosive offense (cue TNT by ACDC) and they do have a history of coming up short in easy win games cough James Madison cough, cough UNC cough, cough Pittsburgh cough
Tom L., I agree. If Tech doesn’t improve between now and when they play ODU the Hokies could get smacked in the mouth by the Monarchs. I’ve seen a couple of their games the last two years and it seems to me they are managing to put together a pretty solid program with all those D-1 leftovers in the 757, especially on offense. ODU’s offense would have given the current Tech defense fits if they would have played this year, and as poor as Tech’s offense played this past season they could have never kept up on scoring with ODU for sure. The Hokies had better take them seriously or it could easily become another JMU.
I have attended both schools and can understand why each wants to play one another. By the time this setter kicks off ODUsshould have mostly converted to an FBS roster. The 757 also has the top talent in the state usually. By the time these games start I just don’t see how ODU is going to be the cupcake everyone thinks they are. If VT and uva aren’t careful ODU will start snagging recruits. Sorry but the location far exceeds what VT and uva bring to the table, academics aren’t too far back, and many may already live in the area. I still think ODU could unseat the others in 10 years as the dominant force in VA.
Andy,
Virginia Tech’s scheduling of nonconference cupcakes is significant and problematic because they play in a conference of cupcakes. Their situation is in no way comparable to Alabama.
Yes, Alabama schedules cupcakes. But, Alabama plays in the SEC. The rest of their schedule more than makes up for their nonconference cupcakes. That’s the point!
The numbers below are the proof. The number to the left of the team is their current Sagarin’s ranking. The number to the right is the current Sagarin’s strength of schedule which is based on all games played (nonconference and conference).
A few things to note. Only two teams in the ACC (Miami 47, Boston College 46) have higher strength of schedules than the lowest team in the SEC (Mississippi State 53).
Georgia, whose nonconference schedule consisted of Buffalo, Florida Atlantic, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech still had a higher strength of schedule than ALL ACC schools because of their conference schedule.
Auburn had the 12th toughest schedule in the country and their nonconference schedule consisted of Clemson, Louisiana-Monroe, New Mexico St, and Alabama A&M.
The ACC teams’ SOS rankings(number on the right) are skewed weak because it is comprised heavily by the pathetic rankings on the left.
To repeat, Virginia Tech’s scheduling of nonconference cupcakes is significant and problematic because they play in a conference of cupcakes. Their situation is in no way comparable to Alabama.
1 Alabama 34
4 Florida 16
6 Texas A&M 25
7 Georgia 40
10 South Carolina 35
11 LSU 28
31 Vanderbilt 42
35 Mississippi 24
39 Mississippi State 53
43 Missouri 2
55 Tennessee 30
68 Arkansas 23
83 Auburn 12
91 Kentucky 22
17 Florida State 69
24 Clemson 66
49 North Carolina 100
54 Miami-Florida 47
66 Georgia Tech 55
67 Virginia Tech 57
69 NC State 71
79 Duke 60
98 Virginia 58
105 Maryland 61
117 Wake Forest 59
122 Boston College 46
Curious about the alleged “cupcakes” that VT supposedly plays every year and apparently other teams don’t, I looked at VT’s SOS for the last 5 years. Here are the results how they ranked out of all D1 schools:
2012 57th
2011 59
2010 40
2009 13
2008 26
Doing the math over those years VT’s SOS during that time their average rank was 39th. Certainly not top ranked but respectable given they are in the ACC. I only ran these numbers on two other teams but might do more just to satisfy my own curiosity. Boise’s SOS is as I expected is weak. This year in particular was noteworthy as their SOS ranked 103 out of 124 programs. For the 5 years their SOS averaged being ranked at 90th in D1.
Because we here on this board constantly hear what a great team GT is (despite losing to VT on a regular basis) and what a bunch of “cupcakes” VT plays, I just assumed that GT’s SOS was one of the best in D1. Guess what? To my surprise their SOS over the same 5 years was considerably worse than VT’s. I was shocked to say the least! Apparently while VT was playing “cupcakes” GT was playing cream puffs. This year and ’09 Gt eked out beating VT’s SOS (’12: GT #56, VT #57 and ’09: GT #10, VT #13). But every other year it has not been close. Last year GT’s SOS was 76th and in ’10 it was 69th. In the “Paul Johnson” era GT’s SOS has averaged being ranked 50th compared to VT’s 39th.
The point is VT is clearly not the only team that schedules as it does. For every ODU VT plays there is a Wofford (FSU plays them next year, GT in ’14), an Elon, a Georgia St. (on Bama’s schedule next year). Oh yeah and ODU. Seems VT is not the only school seeing the advisability of playing them. UNC has them scheduled in 2013.
The issue here is not that VT plays cupcake teams, they play pretty much the same number of the lousy teams that all of the other top schools do. The issue is that VT touts their team a a great top 5 or 10 team year after year with talk of National Championship out of the season gate. Then when they do play a top 5 team, they get trounced. When they play a top 5 team in a bowl game, same result, they get trounced. If they would just own up to the fact that they just a top 25 team and nothing to write home about, people would not be on their case year after year. Yes, they have won a few ACC championships in a conference that has gone down hill once FSU started to go “south.” Give VT credit where credit is due, but don’t try to convince us that they are a top 10 team. Objective fans (like me) are smarter than that; subjective fans (there are many on this blog) can only see VT as a National Champion year after year even when the ground has already collapsed under their team and their coaching staff.
Chris you have hit the nail squarely on the head. When forced by a conference schedule to play cupcakes the non conference schedule has to be better. Thank you for transcribing the information I was to lazy to do at 11:30 last night.
Honestly, other than Western Carolina and Furman, that schedule doesn’t bother me. Assuming the Big East doesn’t fall apart with the most recent news you have:
2013
SEC/current BCS #2, I-AA, and two schools in bordering states – both in C-USA, but one moving to the Big East
2014, when the play-off starts
in-state I-AA school, Big Ten, MAC, Big East
2015
I-AA, Big East, Big Ten. Kansas State was on the schedule here until the Big Twelve shrunk to ten teams and the Wildcats lost a non-conference game as a result.
2016
Big Ten, Big East, in-state I-AA, in-state C-USA replacing the loss of the second game with Kansas State
When ODU decided to go to the next level, unfortunately, the die was cast. Whether they play us, or other FBS schools or other FBS schools in the region, they are a fact of life. Playing them was inevitable. As mentioned by Scott, UNC is playing them next year. Ducking them would do more harm than good. ‘What’s big bad Va Tech afraid of?’ Weaver didn’t legitimize ODU in the state. ODU did! Well that, and a lot of legislative support in Richmond. Do I like it that another FBS school was established in the state? Particularly in 757? No, I don’t. But, once they made the move up, they cannot be ignored. Weaver and Beamer didn’t create this is issue, ODU did!
I read all these comments and I think you guys are missing the point. By the time VT plays ODU they will have built a football program bigger and better than Wake Forest and Duke. The ACC’s Future is bright.
Good job by the informed posters to show SOS comparisons and weak schools other teams play. I went to odu and payed rugby four seasons. I always knew that odu would get back to football. Foreman field is small, but a great place to play.
Tidewater is a great place to recruit. I am proud of what odu has done in four short years. Why not play familiar schools in va and nc. They have great fans. Welcome! The short coach
The complaining would stop with vt’s cupcake schedules if they could start beating some decent teams. As to date they cannot say they can. Example: give vt’s schedule to Bama and let vt have Bama’s. Bama plays at least 6-7 high stakes games as compared to vt playing one top ranked team a year and then it is back to the same old conference.
vt just has not produced when it counts.
The issue is not about ODU being a cupcake team, nor about them being on the schedule. The issue is about traveling to play them in their home stadium. That’s a tactical blunder. VT does not gain from doing that. The theory that you’re playing in front of 757 recruits is completely negated by ODU doing the same thing, only forcing you to come to THEIR house to do so. Talk about handing Wilder a great sales pitch for recruits to ‘stay home with ODU’ for the next 5+ years…
Barry, first you said, “VT has successfully added another cupcake to their schedule”. After having some of GT’s opponents pointed out you say
“The issue here is not that VT plays cupcake teams, they play pretty much the same number of the lousy teams that all of the other top schools do. The issue is that VT touts their team a a great top 5 or 10 team year after year with talk of National Championship out of the season gate.” You’ve changed your tone on scheduling, how come? I’ve never heard anyone associated with VT claim the Hokie were a top 5 or top 10 team. I’ve never heard anyone associated with VT claim the Hokies were going to wind the National Championship or even play in the game. Sure, both of these things are goals, but you’ll never hear anyone in the athletic department make any such claims. If you have, how about giving the quote and the source.
I don’t have a problem playing and beating cupcakes as long as you beat your conference foes as well. The problem is that if you are struggling with conference foes, how does playing a cupcake help except in the W column (provided you get that W). I’ve always thought series again Tennessee would be a good thing for both schools. Bring back the Black Diamond Game with WVU (Tech was better when we played WVU every year). Try to get a series with Penn St or So. Carolina (we used to play the Gamecocks every year!). Games like these would bring out the fans, a W would be good, a L could be used as a tool for recruiting (i.e. we need you because we’re playing WVU/USC/PSU/UT, etc)
Well you’ve done it now. I can guarantee you that Wilder is pointing out the fact that they are considered a cupcake team by Hokie faithful. It will be mentioned every year until we play. They’ll be ready. They already have the best offense in the state, all-american punter, a good place-kicker and a QB up for the FCS equivalent of the Heisman. OC that called the plays that made 33 out of 42 4th down attempts. I don’t think Tech has tried 42 4th down attempts in history. Call them a cupcake, with their coaching staff, amazing things happen. Beamers and Stinesprings tendency sheet will fill a notebook. I’m not so sure ODU isn’t the best team in the state already, they think they are.
I’ve pointed out numerous times here that VT’s worst critics this year have been VT fans but somehow ol’ Barry in his fantasy world claims we think they’re a top 5 team, which I’ve heard about twice here, before the season started. Objective fans deal with facts, subjective fans deal with fantasy…
I agree with Desert Hokie. ODU is now one of only three FBS schools in the state. Ignore them at VT’s peril. Marshall has never beaten WVU but they have played one another 7 years now in a home and home series. Recruiting as we know is vital and pretending a competitor in you back yard does not exist can only hurt.
Crooked, as you know I rarely agree with your posts. However, I couldn’t agree more with your post about how ODU will use this home game with the Hokies as a HUGE recruiting tool. I really believe their coach will be able to talk to these kids in the 757 and brag about how well they’ve done in a short time, including how they are the only non-FBS school in the state that could get the Hokies to play outside of Blacksburg. It says alot that we are traveling to Norfolk instead of having ODU come to our house for all 3 games. All we’ve done with this 2 for 1 deal is added power and bragging rights to another school in the state. Richmond is doing well and we already know what happened in Lane against JMU. You don’t think ODU’s campus location doesn’t appeal to recruits? Ocean, beach, sand, and swimwear? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a mountain man and love the cold and especially the chill in the air, late in the season in Blacksburg. ODU has more than their share of pro’s to their campus, and we’ve only gave them more legitimate recruiting power.
I don’t mind the fact that we are scheduling “cupcakes” as some are saying. All schools have them…plain and simple, if a school doesn’t have “cupcakes” on their schedule then they are probably taking a beating and never getting to where they want to be. You can have only one conference and ours is the ACC. You dont’ think the ACC teams are good enough? Sorry, we have to play them and scheduling every non-conference with a top 10 team isn’t going to get us to the National Championship game any faster.
I see the traveling to play them at Foreman in Norfolk in another manner. Foreman seats 20K. No way will that hold the Tech fans alone from just the Tidewater area, not to mention the ODU fans which are really suportive of the team. So, unless a major stadium in the $200M to $300M range is built (or Foreman greatly expanded by a lot,like tripled), and soon, Tech playing at ODU is not going bode well for the Hokie fans. I predict ODU will announce that they require a new stadium. It will be interesting to see how this ‘new’ stadium will be financed. My guess via state funds. Hokie faithful, this is going to cost you. Unfortunate, but unavoidable.
540—You didn’t see any of those comments early in the year, after VT beat GT, about the predictions of the Hokies going to the NC? That their defense may be one of the best that Foster has put on the field? You are one of those subjective fans that I mentioned, only seeing what you want to. Goals are one thing, reality is another. I am the real voice of truth, no slant here.
I’d rather see them lose to SEC teams, or BIG whatever.
But Barry is subjective 540.
Hey Eagle what is a “decent” team according to you? And what is your team? Since you’re a troll it has to mean it’s an ACC team because no one could possibly hate so much outside of the conference. It also explains the hate because except for the last 2 years VT has owned the conference since they joined
Eagle:
1. You can’t control who is in your conference and who you must play from your conference. The ACC has Duke, UVAs and BCs. The SEC has Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, and Ole Miss.
2. You can’t control who is where within your conference. Everything goes in cycles. While it seems like an eternity ago, it really wasn’t that long in the grand scheme of things that the SEC, as a conference, was an ‘also ran’ when you look at the rankings and who is a “top tier team.”
3. With rare exception, non-conference games are scheduled years in advance. You can’t control how some of those opponents are going to be from year to year, and no one plays a ‘murderer’s row’ for a non-conference schedule.
Barry, I did and his name is CTF/BBAT/NTF. He’s every bit the troll you are and I very seriously doubt he’s a Tech fan despite his blog names.
Barry, between 1999 and 2009 VT finished with a final season AP poll ranking in the top 10 six (6) times. Only in ’03 and this year during that time frame were they unranked. That is why VT fans have the expectations they do. It’s not a fantasy, it’s real.
From Wikepedia:
“Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject’s individual feelings, imaginings, or interpretations.”
“Subjectivity refers to individual interpretations of experiences consisting of emotional, intellectual, and spiritual perceptions and misperceptions.”
Become familiar with the terms you throw around and misuse, it might help your cause. Your arguments contradict themselves are illogical and have no basis in fact.
Barry, there is only one “real voice of truth” and you ain’t it.
Cupcake? Just like JMU was a few years ago??? In 4 years ODU will have already taken most of Tech’s 757 recruits anyways. Do your homework folks.
Also, 6-7 high profile games? Not seeing it. For argument’s sake, we’ll say a top-15 team is a “top team” in the FBS since that places you in the top 12.5% of the FBS, and is therefor a “high profile game”. A top-10 team is an elite team. A top-5 team is the elite of the elite.
Here are Alabama’s opponents from 2007-2012. This information excludes bowl games but includes conference title games. Rankings are BCS for this season, otherwise Coaches’ Poll end-of-season rankings so as to exclude teams on probation.
Alabama 2012
Ranked opponents: 4
In top-15: 3 (all in top-10)
6 games against teams with losing records or I-AA opponents.
Alabama 2011
Ranked opponents: 2, both in top-5.
5 games against teams with losing records or I-AA opponents (including Vanderbilt’s bowl loss).
Alabama 2010
Ranked opponents: 5
In top-15: 2. One in top-10, one #1
5 games against teams with losing records or I-AA opponents (including Tennessee’s bowl loss).
Alabama 2009
Ranked opponents: 4
In top-15: 2. One in top-10, one in top-5
4 games against teams with losing records or I-AA opponents.
2008
Ranked opponents: 3. All in top-15. Two in top-10. One #1.
6 games against teams with losing records.
2007
Ranked opponents: 4. All top-15. Two top-5 (including #1)
3 games against teams with losing records or I-AA opponents.
Average # of ranked opponents: 3.67
Average # of high profile opponents: 2.67
Average # of ‘cupcakes’ (losing record or I-AA): 4.83
Also, average win-loss % of Alabama’s opponents over that period, excluding bowl games.
2007: 0.575, 88-65
2008: 0.509, 83-80
2009: 0.566, 94-72
2010: 0.533, 81-71
2011: 0.578, 89-65
2012: 0.519, 81-75
That should be excluding Alabama’s bowl opponents.
Donald,
And we’ll see your similar ranking of the Hokies schedule from 2007-2012 when?
You said you excluded Alabama’s bowl games but you purposely included Vanderbilt’s and Tennesse’s bowl losses to increase the number of losing record teams.
I thought I had put the silliness of Andy Bitter’s comparing Alabama’s strength of schedule to VT’s to rest above. Apparently, Donald wants to continue down that road.
Quite simply, regardless of what cupcakes anyone (VT or Alabama) plays, the toxic weakness of the ACC makes the overall SOS of all ACC teams perpetually abysmal compared to most other conferences, most significantly the SEC. Again, see my list of SOSs from this year above. Only two ACC teams have stronger SOSs than the WEAKEST SEC SOS.
Here are Alabama’s and VT’s final end of season Sagarin’s SOSs (after all games including bowls) since 2007 (Donald’s arbitrary start year)
2012 Alabama 34 VT 57
2011 Alabama 15 VT 59
2010 Alabama 14 VT 40
2009 Alabama 2 VT 13
2008 Alabama 28 VT 26
2007 Alabama 30 VT 36
Ave. Alabama 20 VT 38
The Alabama (or any SEC team) SOS vs VT SOS is a loser argument any way you try to twist the numbers. That will always be the case as long as the ACC is such a pathetically weak conference and conference games comprise the bulk of a team’s schedule.
I never made the remark that VT and Alabama’s schedules are the same. I said they follow a similar non-conference scheduling philosophy, which is true.
I’ve never said the ACC schedule is as tough as the SEC. It’s clearly not.
I forgot to include that average for all six years. 0.547
For comparison, VT over the same period since I’m sure someone will ask me to post it. ;P
2007
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.566, 94-72
Ranked opponents: 4.
Top-15: 3 games (BC twice). One #1
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 4
2008
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.565, 95-73
Ranked opponents: 2
Top-15: 0
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 3
2009
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.583, 91-65
Ranked opponents: 4.
Top-15: 3. One #1
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 4
2010
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.512, 84-80
Ranked opponents: 3. One in top-10
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 7. Two 6-7 after bowl losses.
2011
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.554, 92-74
Ranked opponents: 2. None in top-15
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 4. One 6-7 after a bowl loss.
2012
Opponent’s winning percentage: 0.545, 79-66
Ranked opponents: 2. Both in top-15
Opponents with losing records or I-AA: 4. Includes GT losing ACCCG
Average opponents’ winning percentage: 0.554
Average # of ranked opponents: 2.83
Average # of high profile opponents: 1.17
Average # of cupcakes: 4.33
So over the last six years, to date, Alabama
* has played 0.84 more ranked opponents per season than VT
* has played 1.5 more high profile opponents per season than VT
* has played 0.5 more cupcakes per season than VT
* has as similar schedule strength to VT (VT favored by 0.007%)
Yes, Tech has had trouble winning the ‘big games’, but it looks to me like Alabama is getting SOME additional credit for simply being Alabama and in the SEC when you break down the numbers.
You are right, Andy. I should have made clear that your comparison and discussion of VT and Alabama nonconference scheduling PRACTICES is most edifying and meaningful when discussed in the context of their entire schedules. Otherwise, it becomes a fruitless apples and oranges argument (bad pun).
Chris,
I should have been more clear. I excluded the won-loss record of VT and Alabama’s bowl opponents. Their regular season opponents have ALL wins AND losses (I-A, I-AA, bowl, conference title game) included in their strength of schedule. For example, Alabama doesn’t have Colorado’s 6-7 record from 2007 in the information above, nor does VT have Kansas’s 12-1 record from the same season included.
I suppose I should have calculated everything the way the NCAA tournament does for SOS (2/3 opponent’s win/loss record minus games against you, 1/3 opponent’s opponent’s win/loss record including games against you but excluding that opponent) but I simply don’t have that kind of time.
Congrats, Donald. That was the 10,000th comment since I started this blog a little over a year ago.
The reason I didn’t focus on non-conference was because people would revert back to SEC vs. ACC, neither of which either team has any control over. Even when you look at it further, despite Sagarin’s rankings (which I have no clue how he calculates), their overall schedule strengths are similar during the last 6 years. Alabama has a lot more games against top-10 and top-5 foes, but I sometimes wonder how much of that is the SEC getting the benefit of the doubt for being the SEC. For example, I don’t think that Florida or A&M are top-10 teams but I’ve had issues with how the polls are done for well over a decade. I’m a “no polls until mid-October” person but that’ll never happen.
LoL! Sweet! What do I win?
I’ll give you a percentage of my blog bonus, which, calculated through today, is exactly $0.00.
Donald,
Sagarin’s SOS comparison is profoundly different than yours. It includes all games.
Put simply, and at risk of summarizing the obvious, when you play in a weak conference and your goal is national championship contention/participation, you are at an automatic disadvantage in comparison to teams from stronger conferences because your SOS is made up of mainly conference opponents and a weak conference means a weak conference component of SOS.
This, of course, assumes that SOS is an important factor in determining national championship contention/participation as we have been promised under the forthcoming BCS playoff structure.
IF (I repeat, if) that is true, then Come on Man is likely wrong when he posted: “You don’t think the ACC teams are good enough? Sorry, we have to play them and scheduling every non-conference with a top 10 team isn’t going to get us to the National Championship game any faster.”
“Every” game top-ten? Of course not. But given the toxic weakening effect of the ACC on ACC team’s SOS, any ACC team (VT or any other) hoping to overcome that negative SOS effect not only will have to schedule at least one top-ten opponent, but also beat them. Given that it is increasingly uncommon for ACC teams to be top ten, that means that ACC teams will have to plan on scheduling nonconference opponents who they are confident will be top ten when they play them in order to acquire their needed top ten opponents.
How toxic is the ACC conference effect? Consider the following. This year FSU did the typical nonconference scheduling. They scheduled one high quality opponent (#4 Florida), one middling to poor opponent (the Big East’s South Florida) and two cupcakes. Despite having #4 Florida, #24 Clemson, VT and GT on their schedule they have a SOS of only 69, far worse than even the weakest SOS in the SEC. The combination of two nonconference cupcakes and four conference cupcakes (e.g., #117 Wake Forest, #122 Boston College, #105 Maryland, #79 Duke) more than off set their one top ten opponent.
My belief – in all likelihood, any ACC team will need to have at least one top ten victory (not just game, but victory) AND be undefeated to get a national championship (four-team) playoff invitation over a one-loss SEC team. Even then, it may be dicey. Those conditions will be necessary because of the toxic ACC conference SOS effect. (NOTE: To reiterate, I’m using the assumption that SOS will be a significant component of the new BCS system as promised.)
Given the ACC’s and VT’s history against top ten opponents, if the above turns out to be true it is not very encouraging for either.
CVC, I tend to agree with your assertion about ACC/VT participation in the future playoff scenario. Our problem at VT is well documented in our weakness against elite competition. Then you have to factor in the necessity of being undefeated in the regular season, while having played an elite OOC team, and having your cupcake teams not be extreme cupcakes. That’s the easy part.
The difficulty comes in this – having made it through a season undefeated, and having beaten an elite OOC team in doing so, here is what is left for us to accomplish – We then have to defeat another elite OOC team, almost guaranteed to be a road game, too. That only gets us into the championship game. Finally, we’d have to beat our third elite OOC team in one season to win the national championship. What’s our record lifetime in doing that? 1-27? In all of our history?
Don’t think Frank will fill that trophy case when you understand what it will entail beginning in 2014.
This always brings the haters out. Haters…READ the schedules…do you not see Ohio St and Wisconsin with N Dame to be added in there? Alabama played Ga State, Ga Southern and Western Carolina in the last three years. They’ve also played North Texas. VT putting ONE tough OOC opponent on the schedule is the SAME THING all of the big schools do. In fact, I’d say having OSU, ECU And N Dame in the same season is one of the toughest non conference schedules around.
And by the way…once ODU is in C-USA, they’ll be a contender, NOT a cupcake!
Given Frank’s stubborness in maintaining our offensive coaching staff, I’m all for playing cupcakes but let’s try to schedule the creamiest out of conference cupcakes as possible – we’ve already lost to JMU, ECU and Miami of Ohio.
Would it really be all that shocking to lose to ODU six years from now? They’ll have been playing for ten years after a pretty impressive start while we could be on the first year of a decline in the latter stages of Frank’s career.
I don’t care what Sagarin’s SoS says because I don’t know how he CALCULATES it. Does he take the square of the hypotenuse? Is his SoS based on his (subjective) computer rankings? I don’t have that information and likely never will.
I should have just used the NCAA method, which includes no post season games (including championship games) or rematches and been done with it. Unfortunately, I don’t have the resources or the time to look at 200+ schedules (I-A, I-AA, and possibly Division II if any of the I-AA squads played a D2 school for opponent’s opponent’s SoS).
That said, I didn’t because I only cared about what games were -scheduled-. Eagle commented that Alabama plays 6-7 high profile games per year because they’re in the SEC. I was merely out to dispel that notion. That’s it. If we can, for argument’s sake, agree that any game against a team that finished in the top-15 or higher is a “high profile game”, then on average since 2007 (chosen just because I didn’t feel like going back to 2002 for time’s sake):
Alabama plays 2.67 high profile games per season. Virginia Tech plays 1.17
Alabama plays 4.83 cupcakes per year. VT plays 4.33
Further, the winning percentage of their SCHEDULED opponents (bowl games aren’t scheduled) are pretty similar. THAT is why I didn’t include bowl games. Who you play in your bowl game and their win-loss record has nothing to do with your scheduling philosophy.
Also, the reason I looked at end-of-season ranking is because it’s the accurate indication of how the team did. Look at VT this year or even VT back in 2004. In 2004, the Hokies started out unranked and finished in the top-10.
Wilder will be long gone from ODU by the time VT plays them in 2016.
Who knows, maybe he succeeds Frank Beamer.
Andy, In response to your December 10th comment regarding BCS opponents on Virginia Tech’s schedule. How has that fared for the Hokies? Outside of Miami At Lane stadium in 2003, Name ONE WIN Beamer’s Hokies won vs a top 5 team or a team that went on to win a national title?
Moral Wins are so 1987. Thats livin in the was.
Go back & look at the schedules of the late 70s/early 80s. At least we’re not playing teams like ETSU, who hasn’t even had a football team for several years. VT also lost several games back then or had some REALLY close calls vs. teams we should’ve beaten, even back then. Granted VT’s scheduling has never been the strongest BUT it’s a LOT better than it used to be & we’re picking up some big name programs in the coming years that no one would have likely ever expected us to play back then.
We can’t control the strength of other teams in the ACC but we also don’t have the dilemma of a conference that’s falling apart like the Big East. Conferences are changing tremendously & personally I think it will continue to the point I can envision 6-8 “super” conferences with 12-16 teams each & a playoff system where conference champions are the ones making the playoffs.
We have to start winning against the elite programs on a regular basis first though. I’m just as disappointed as any VT fan about this year & other seasons where we faltered. Every team has an off year & this season just happened to be that kind of season, in a big way. I think Beamer still has a great program overall but I do think we need some changes, such as a shake up in the offensive scheme. We’re way too predictable & always go away from things once they start working for us.
Hopefully we’ll get back to “Beamer Ball” & move to a more explosive & unpredictable offense.