A grab bag of links to get your Thursday started
If you missed my brief post yesterday afternoon on the NFL draft prospects of a few former Hokies this April, you can get to it here. Now for a few more miscellaneous links of interest …
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook.
– Former Virginia Tech quarterback/safety/linebacker Nick Sorensen has a new job: he’s a coaching assistant/special teams coach for the Seattle Seahawks. Sorensen played 10 — ten! — seasons in the NFL as a safety/special teams maven for the Rams, Jaguars and Browns. He spent last year as a volunteer defensive quality control coach at Youngstown State.
– This was in our paper the other day, but Martinsville High School hired Orion Martin as its head football coach Monday. The former Hokies defensive end spent last season as an assistant at Franklin County after being a grad assistant at Tech for two years.
– I tweeted this the other day, but here’s the link to a story on Arizona Cardinals running back Ryan Williams on the comeback trail from yet another injury. Former Hokies quarterback Bruce Arians is the new head coach in Arizona. Here’s what he said about Williams: “I know Ryan can flat run the football — I’m a Hokie. I know all about Ryan, and I love him.”
– Want to hear former Virginia Tech and current Houston Texans offensive tackle Duane Brown sing that Gotye song live for a radio show? Of course you do. Fox Sports has you covered. (And Deadspin, naturally, picked it up.) Spoiler: he’s a better blocker than singer.
– The NCAA football rules committee has some suggestions for next year. Most notable is the group’s proposal to eject players who target and contact defenseless players above the shoulders. Obviously, player safety continues to be a big concern. This might be excessive. It had better be egregious to warrant an ejection. A lot of times the game moves fast and hits that aren’t intentional happen. You’re basically putting every safety in the country on notice with this rule.
Scroll to the bottom of that link for the full list of proposals, which need to be approved by the Playing Rules Oversight Panel to go into effect. One requires three seconds to be on the clock in order for a team to spike the ball. This seems arbitrary, but I guess they’re trying to avoid a hometown clock operator from giving teams an edge. It’s kind of like the basketball rule that require a certain amount of time to be on the clock to get a full shot off. I’m not sure if I like it.
Another is a rule that requires teams to have either their jerseys or pants contrast in color to the playing field. For goodness sake, can we just let Boise State wear its all-blue jerseys already? Is it really hurting anybody? (Also, I would assume then that teams like Michigan State can’t wear all green anymore.)
– Lastly, Sports Illustrated’s Stewart Mandel answered a mailbag question about Frank Beamer on Wednesday. I’ll excerpt it, but click here to read the whole mailbag (which is a good way to get through the offseason):
While Frank Beamer has done more with less at Virginia Tech than Nick Saban at Alabama or Urban Meyer at Florida or Ohio State, it seems like he’ll get no respect until he wins a national championship. Is it tougher to win a national championship at a school with a great history and a great recruiting footprint, or is it more difficult to build a program that has very little history up from nothing, even if you don’t win the national title? – Rob, Richmond, Va.
Mandel: I’ve discussed this topic in very similar fashion with Bill Snyder, arguing that what he’s accomplished at Kansas State ranks among the all-time great coaching careers regardless of whether the Wildcats ever climb that last elusive hurdle and play for the national title. You can probably say many of the same things about Beamer. It’s incredibly difficult to reach 20 straight bowl games at any school, but certainly more so at Virginia Tech than Alabama or Florida. It’s a testament to what he built that last year’s 7-6 season was considered so abnormal following eight straight double-digit win seasons; in fact, neither Alabama nor Florida has ever produced an equivalent streak. So while Beamer no longer rates among the “hot” coaches of the day, there’s absolutely no question he’s had a Hall of Fame career.
That said, national championships will always be the defining measure of coaching greatness. That’s what everybody plays for, and the guys who win titles — especially multiple times — will always be viewed more favorably. They’re hard to capture, even at Alabama or Florida. Ask Mike Shula or Ron Zook. And what Saban is doing right now — building a program that contends annually for the crystal football — requires every bit the effort, if not more, as it does to carry a program up from the bottom.
But you can also win a national championship without an accompanying legacy. Would anyone reasonably suggest Gene Chizik was a better coach than Frank Beamer? Larry Coker? Heck, Dennis Erickson (who has two)? I doubt it. History will ultimately view Beamer very favorably, but it’s hard to imagine he’ll be celebrated as much as coaches who consistently dominate and win trophies at blueblood programs.
I’ll throw this last part to the blog crowd for discussion. Thoughts?
February 14, 2013 - 12:02 AM
Sorensen is a great example of how hard work & dedication can lead to great results. He was making about a million a year by the time he retired as a special teams guy. It’s good to see him rewarded with that coaching position.
You REALLY want a guy like Ryan Williams to make it. Let’s hope he stays healthy. If he’s healthy, I’m confident he can do quite well in the NFL.
Stewart Mandel was correct on both sides of his answer concerning Beamer vs. Saban. Beamer has achieved a high level of success, but Saban has achieved a much higher one. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
The article is correct on many issues, and one of them is that Beamer is no longer a ” hot ” coach.
Beamer will be remembered for what he as accomplished at Virginia Tech, but if there are many more years like 2012, he will not be remembered as going out in a very good way.
I think you should make a big deal about the Big 10 deciding that their teams cn no longer play down a level in football. I am sick of wasting money on seeing teams like James Madison, Willim and Mary, etc with the money we nd on tickets and contribution. The ACC should adopt a similar rule. Start raising Cain “Hokie Nation”!
Frank definitely is facing an uphill battle to get all the credit he is due for what he has done for VT and VT football. Hell, even an irrational group of VT fanatics continue to discredit him every chance they get through any media, including social media, that they can access and voice their opinions. Of course they are welcome to express their opinions. It is just pathetic so many of them do not have the common sense or ability to rationalize situations with actual facts before their mouths outrun their brains.
Who would have thought that Sorenson would have had any NFL career at all much less a 10 year one. I still remember him being converted from safety to QB and having to start. If I remember correctly we won that game but it wasn’t pretty. Anderson and Montgomery are similar stories – questionable to have NFL careers but both have been major contributors to their teams.
Hope Ryan can come back and be the player he was expected to be. Kevin Jones never could overcome the injuries to have a steady career, Suggs too. I remember when RB’s always dominated the top draft picks and the big money along with QB’s. RB’s are the big loser in the new collective bargaining agreement on draft pick caps. Their careers seem to get shorter and shorter and their contracts smaller and smaller. Is this perhaps because the NFL has become such a passing dominated league? Dunno, but Ryan is only going to get limited shots and then he’ll get passed to the heap. It’s unfortunate, but limited rookie guarantees make it more likely that a team is going to jettison them and take the now much smaller financial penalty.
As for Beamer, he’ll certainly have a great legacy and despite the dissappointments of last year fans are still very happy to have him. I just hope he doesn’t stay past his ability to do the job like JoePa who was barely even a figure head in his last years. To prop a coach up and pretend he’s relevant to the program was really unfortunate and I hope it never happens to Beamer (who’s still along way from JoePa territory). As fans we’re a bit Jekyl and Hyde – we want Beamer but we want him to act like someone he isn’t.
Man am I ready for some football!
I liken Mandel’s thoughts about the Chizik’s, Cokers and Ericksons to the one off golfers who win one major and very little else. Golf is littered with guys like Trevor Immelman, Lucas Glover, Orville Moody and Todd Hamilton who have won one major and then fizzled. Guys like Couples, Love and Kite each won only one major but otherwise were golfers who finished at or near the top of the money list, year in, year out. Rightfully the NC is the Holy Grail of CFB but winning one while having an overall mediocre record rings hollow to me. The guys who win only one but otherwise have highly competitive records are a different story.
Saban has done a truly amazing job at Bama and though he has capitalized on Bama’s legacy, his record qualifies him for greatness. I guess the question begs though, how long does a team like VT keep that label of being a very good program that has risen from obscurity? Let’s face it, that happened a long time ago in the 90′s when VT started beating Miami and winning BE Championships and playing for the NC. Their record stands for itself I say. Gosh, posters on here have held Stanford up as the ideal VT should shoot for and they’ve had 5 years, repeat only 5 years of “greatness”. Otherwise they’re BC or Vandy. Part of the perception I guess is that we VT fans, and I include myself, are on the inside looking out, so to speak, and perhaps don’t see how VT is perceived nationally. Maybe I (we) don’t perceive that other teams like an LSU or Nebraska actually respect VT when they come to play as I’m sure they do. So perhaps VT is at the point it is no longer perceived as a team that used to be nothing. But that’s obviously not entirely the case given what Mandel is talking about. An NC would definitely push them over that edge but more realistically just winning more big games I guess is what is needed.
This has definitely been what you call “thinking out loud” so I’m sorry about the ramblage…
Sorenson was just a good athlete and that allowed him to play multiple positions and have that 10 year NFL career. I believe he cam to VT as a QB and then switched to safety and then had to play QB again due to multiple injuries. The Hokies have been fortunate to have several players of that mold. John Engleberger was a walk-on who also ended up with a 10 year NFL career. Justin Hamilton came to VT as a TB, was switched to WR and then moved to defense and had a good enough year as a safety to get drafted in the 7th round and play a couple years in the league. Of course we all remember Cody Grimm. He’s one of my favorite all-time Hokie players. I admire those hard working guys who little is expected of but work hard enough to prove they can play the game at a high level. Go back to the 70′s and there was DT Tom Beasley. Recruited out of PA where Pitt and Penn St. weren’t interested in him. Came to VT and played well enough to get drafted by the Steelers and have a long career. I think he played on all four of their Super Bowl winning teams in the 70′s.
I’m sure I’ve left people out. If you think of others, post them on here.
#6 scott, good ‘thinking out loud’. I will add to your perspective about needing to look from outside O&M world – I don’t think there’s national champions, and then nothing. There are historically bad teams, historically irrelevant teams, and historically good teams. Then there are historically elite teams.
If you search around for teams across the nation that would compare to VaTech, and do so objectively, you don’t use Alabama, Ohio State USC, Miami, Florida State, Texas, Penn State, Florida, etc. You use Texas A&M, Iowa, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, teams like that. Teams when mentioned, any neutral college football observer would say – ‘Yeah, they’re a Top 20 team, or should be’. That’s the level where we reside. The level where Frank Beamer has taken us.
You made an excellent point – Beamer took us up to that level back in the 1990′s. We’re well beyond the point of discussing how we came from nothing. Everybody came up at some point to wherever they are now. Florida used to be a joke for decades. Then Steve Spurrier was their Frank Beamer. They’re continued and built upon that success. Florida State was as irrelevant as VT, until Bobby Bowden did his work there. Neither of those teams still talk about coming up from nothing. We really should move beyond that, too.
Andy, who is recruiting Hand out of Woodbridge for us? Foster? I saw where he had us in his final 5 with some of the big boys. He is big into engineering too which could help us. What are our prospects of keeping this top rated guy in the state?
Hand has called Foster his favorite recruiter, so that bodes well for Tech. But other schools aren’t going to relent on the nation’s top recruit. It’ll be a challenge to keep him in-state, but VT has a chance.
My issue with the helmet safety rule is it doesn’t apply to running backs. I have seen far too many times offensive runners lowering their helmet to knock back defensive backs. So, why aren’t the NCAA cracking down on that? They need to make the rule balanced because right now, it favors the offense far too much, putting defenses in a bind. I know David Wilson was always doing this and continues to do that in the NFL.
Good piece on Mandel, and a very balanced view. I can’t add what others didn’t cover.
I really hope Ryan Williams finally have a break out year, but I get the nagging feeling it may not happen. He has never been able to shake the injury bug that nagged him since his high school days. He’s an explosive and powerful running back that could fit Bruce Arinas’ offense.
Good stuff Andy, getting stoked! Now how about a piece on the cheerleaders, water boys, anything to keep the old adrenaline down? But please, nothing on uniforms, that’s too much of a buzz kill for me…
Andy, I don’t know how you found Duane Brown singing the Gotye song, but thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can’t stop laughing.
Why is it that running backs can lower their head and initiate helmet to helmet and yet never get flagged? That’s just wrong.
Per Trevor, the helmet-to-helmet rule has always bothered me. I think the exposed WR rule is a good one because it’s less ambiguous. However, a defensive lineman hits a QB in the chest and causes the helmet to go back, and a flag is almost always thrown. Official, “helmet-to-helmet, 15 yds”. Was the QB defenseless? Or excercised poor skills or judgement and turned into a lineman locked up with an OL and got smacked in the process. As mentioned by Trevor, when a RB lowers his head, what is supposed to happen under the rules? You can only tackle him by his shoelaces? Defender can’t lower is head to meet the runner? Is the runner in violation by dropping his head? Because, running straight up will get you killed! Seems to me that at least 75% of all tackles involved the helmet of the runner or tackler in some fashion. When do you call it?
Wilson was not afraid to ‘stick his head in’, but Evans absolutely made you pay for tackling him in the open. My opinion, the most punishing runner Tech ever had.
540Hokie, a correction on Tom Beasley. He was the Pride of Northfork, WV.
Since many of Tech’s own fault Beamer for not winning a National Championship how can anyone expect a national audience to give him the props he deserves?
I remember the days when we had maybe a few hundred fans at the spring games. Now we have 30 thousand. Beamer has done a great job to build this Hokie nation, but until we win some BCS games against top ranked teams he will not be considered one of the all time greats. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t our only BCS win come against Cincinnati and I don’t think they were a top 10 team. How often have we finished in the top five or even the top 10? We have had a really good team for years but not a great team. I love TV football, but I can’t pretend that we are an elite football program, at least not yet. Teams like Alabama and LSU respect us because we have beaten them in the past but not when they’re at their best. When we can go head-to-head with the big boys when they are at their best and win, then we can say we are an elite team and Beamer will be considered an elite coach.
Voice of Reason, Cinncy was #12, VT #21. I think you have ample company here who agree VT is not “elite”…But that raises the question. Though VT is not an elite program, could Beamer be so given his record of number of wins, consistency and conference championships? I don’t know…
Regarding th helmet rule:
Take the helmets off and the spearing will stop.
Coach Beamer is an elite coach and is respected by his peers. Their opinions are more important than those of you who have never coached and built something from the ground up and that also includes the media who pass judgement every day. Unless everyone wants to pony up the big bucks we are not going to be Alabama, LSU, etc. What VT has done on the football field has been remarkable in the age of parity. No one team can recruit all the good players and sit them on the bench so no one else can have them. Some players want to go away from home to play because they think that has prestige and it doesn’t make any difference who the recruiter is from their state. There are too many reasons a kid of 18 makes a decision and even then they change their minds
Tough news for Danny Coles and the D. At least he’s only finished with contact sports and can get on with his education and then life. D staff at least knows early that they won’t have Danny.
I think you meant Michael Cole. It is sad for the young man, but at least he’ll be healthy and lead a productive life with a good education.
Andy – Thanks for the update on Cole. Hate it for him and his family.
Thanks Michael!!
crooked road, notice the post by George at 8:48am on Feb. 14. Please read-over and over again.
#26 danny, college football analyst Stewart Mandel responded to the complaining fan from Richmond with this summary – ‘History will ultimately view Beamer very favorably, but it’s hard to imagine he’ll be celebrated as much as coaches who consistently dominate and win trophies at blueblood programs.’
Read that over and over again. Learn to accept it. There’s one thing that will change it. Learn to accept it. As I said above – ‘Stewart Mandel was correct on both sides of his answer concerning Beamer vs. Saban. Beamer has achieved a high level of success, but Saban has achieved a much higher one. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that.’ Learn to accept it.