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Solid chat today. Soak it in, since it might be the last one for a while. (Honestly, what is there to talk about football-wise in June?). The replay is below.
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Virginia Tech football chat
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Andy – based on your observations so far this spring, is it likely that we see improvement in the O-line and running game this fall?
How do you think the running back situation will shake out? Why did Shane Beamer not give the ball to just one or two backs last year? Is he an indecisive person?
I ask again.. Given the concerns with Offensive line and even after the spring game appears to be an issue, is the coaching staff considering looking at JuCo level for some O-Lineman to improve the issues in the short term while allowing time for Coach Grimes to develop those in the program and recruit the talent he needs in the future?
Alway enjoy your columns abd blogs. Virginia has quite a few blue chip recruits this year, but it seems the Hoo’s is taking an upper hand with several of them. Which one of the high profilers does Tech have a good chance? I have no problem if Tech keeps winning the intrastate game forever .
Do you have any current info on the status of Drew Harris?
Our OL couldn’t move a coffee table. Until that changes, we’re sunk. You could put Sweetness back there and the outcome would be the same.
I am convinced we have the talent and the strength program so I just can’t figure out why we can’t get a push off the line. I thought it might be coaching but now I am not sure about that. In the Spring Game we still looked like the Gang that Couldn’t Block.
Our guys go to the NFL, or at least are getting looked at, so I can’t buy the talent argument. I know we have a good training program. What gives?
#3 PABHokie, to jump in and answer – JUCO players almost never work, especially on the line – OL/DL. Yes, yes, yes, there are exceptions, Corey Moore, blah blah blah.
If you want to talk reality, and not the 1% exceptions that some Hokie fans like to pretend are the 99% rule, JUCOs don’t work out. It takes linemen longer than anyone else to mold into what they’re expected to be.
What Hokie fans need to accept is that we did not arrive at a 7-6 record overnight. Despite the lies that denied anything was wrong, there’s been stuff that was wrong for years – YEARS. And as far as correcting those problems? It will not happen overnight. It ‘appears’ things are headed in the right direction, but we do need to give it time.
Zman, we do NOT have the strength program we need to compete, but I’m tired of the constant battle against those who don’t care to know. Our S&C needs to be VASTLY upgraded, and with new direction. That will NEVER happen until Frank hands over the ‘dynasty’ to Shane, so I don’t even feel like fighting that battle. Forcing Frank to denounce our former OC was enough of a lifetime battle. This one will be just as difficult, if not more so, because most fans don’t care enough to try to understand.
#2, Kristin, it’s hard to say what Shane was doing last year, his second as RB coach. The first year he had David Wilson and that was a no brainer. Last year Holmes was the heir apparent but simply did not pan out as expected and thus Coleman, a fast but small RB became the featured back and sr. Martin Scales also got time. Turns out Shane liked having that 3 man rotation which really did not pan out either. Why he liked it I’m not sure though I’m sure Andy can recall. The usual argument is your guys are rested, you get to see who stands out etc. In the running game VT has veered away from the hard hitting north south running game of old in favor of the Wilsons and Colemans who had the speed to make it around the corner. That unfortunately is tough to block and we know about VT’s problems on the OL. So I’m guessing part of that tendency has been predicated on the talent you have. You have fast guys so you go around the corner even though you can’t block it. This year will be interesting as Shane has said he wants to find that one guy who can carry the load and all eyes are on Edmunds, especially now that Holmes is a question mark. Further the new NC favors that running style. I know I’ve not really answered your question but I think this year we’ll see about Shane’s decisiveness or lack thereof. Interesting to also see how the boss’s son will jive with the new OC… Other folks will chime in here to add there 2 cents.
@#8 Crooked, it will not surprise you to hear me ask, but will you please flesh out your criticism of our S&C program? I personally don’t know enough about our program vs others to form an opinion on your statements, and you have made similar posts before, but I haven’t heard your reasoning, though I have asked for it more than once. Not to argue with you Mr. road (that would make me a hater), not to defend the status quo (that would make me a lemming), but to try to understand where you are coming from. Are you speaking anecdotally, or have you some factual comparisons or inside knowlege the rest of us do not?
Andy, is Drew Harris off the table now? As for Shane Beamer, I haven’t seen enough of him yet to draw firm conclusions. I think last year was a tough one for him because no running back truly fit the mold he would have wanted and the team effort struggled because of the lack of a dominant back emerging as “the man”. We have certainly been blessed with some great college runners, but that sort of talent isn’t found every day and with the well discussed OL problems, that’s the kind of back we would have needed to even have a chance to excell in the running game last year. Right now, I am holding my breath and crossing my fingers for next year.
AB- I did not get a chance to see the game on Sat. I did see some clips from another schools game. The QB was actually wearing a GoPro camera on top of his helmet- which would allow the OC / QB coach observe specific reads, checking off receivers, time spent on each read, etc. Did you see VT QBs wear helmet cams at any point this spring? Just wondering. Thanks!
#10 perch, I’m not travelling that road. I could and would easily. At this point, it won’t matter, because nobody, especially the ‘powers to be,’ cares to dissect my analysis. Cheerleaders are welcome, critics are not. I know my place.
I’ll say this – the 1990′s do not equal the 2010′s in terms of advanced technology and exercises. Mike Gentry is as firmly entrenched in the 1990′s (or earlier) than the elite S&C programs are entrenched in the 2010′s. IIWII.
Frank has crafted bis sleep chamber after decades of work. Let him slumber in it.
#13 crooked road, thanks for answering my question, but I really do care about our S&C program and would be interested in your analysis. And since when have you ever witheld criticism because you “knew your place”?
I do appreciate your second paragraph, and although I’d like to know more specifics, it was a direct answer and I appreciate it.
Perhaps there are others here with more specific knowlege of the program and it’s assets/deficiencies as relates to “elite” programs who could chime in.
#14 perch, I’ve got specifics, and the career knowledge to back it up. It’s another Stinespring deal, though, and that’s the way it is. You want to choose another ‘walk partner’ for Frank at lunchtime? Go ahead, choose one. Loeffler? Grimes? Yeah, right. They will NEVER be ‘in the circle’, they’ll only be paid employees.Then tell me I don’t know what’s going on. Anybody else who cares to comment on this would be a miracle in weighing in on this category, so good for them. Nobody except me has whispered a word in the last half decade, but, hey, have at it. You pretend to ask for ‘specific knowledge’ as a way to flail at me, I’m not stupid. I’ve got the ‘specific knowledge’, but you don’t care about that, you only care about defending the shield. So go ahead, have at it. Inferior product at elite prices, enjoy…
sorry, crooked, I’m not as devious as you seem to think. The subject interests me, that’s all. I pretend nothing, just asked a question. You do get your back up.
In my opinion, and we all have one is that there is nothing wrong with our S&C program nor our football program. We just went through a bad season or two and we will bounce back. The NY Yankees, Boston celtics, Pittsburgh Steelers, etc. don’t win championships every year either but Like VT football they have great leadership and they always get themselves back on track.
VT will too.
Really enjoy the recorded live chats. Wish you guys would keep doing it monthly.
CR, what’s up with Gentry?? What am I missing? Has the S & C at VT become
archaic? Presumably he is one of the nations best and good at his trade.
perch, if you’re interested, it’s just so easy to google and to compare to that of the other top twenty programs across the nation. But then, nobody would do the homework for you to easily dismiss because it didn’t jive with your pre-ordained mindset. If you wanted to investigate the way you claim, you’d spend no more than 20 minutes and find out.
Sure, for the lemmings, Mike Gentry is to be praised for his work in the 1990′s. Such a shame he hasn’t evolved beyond that. But then, that would mean somebody taking more than twenty seconds to look at that. When I lay all that out, like with the former OC, there is nothing but vitriole by the reactionaries, so eat your own. Keep on lagging behind, and never care enough to check on why. You pretend to care? Look at it.
Crooked Road, if you have something factual to say, then say it. Commenters don’t harp on you because you’re negative. They harp on you because your comments are inane rants that lack substance.
Wrong again ss. It’s because I’m not a mindless cheerleader. Feel free to show how our S&C program has produced lots of highly rated players who were previously unknown. As in five star caliber from two star potential. Feel free to show how our S&C program has taken our 4 or 5 star recruits we have managed to secure and developed them into NFL prime prospects.Show cause & effect. Feel free to do any of this – we both know you won’t, that you’re only angry I questioned the throne and that you will NEVER provide foundation for the lemming defense. No problem, I never expected it… Have a nice evening.
#7 Crooked road – I am fully aware the weakness of our O-Line over the past SEVERAL years, and was one of the view lone voices in the wilderness shouting for change of O-Line coach at least 6 – 7 years ago. (I’ve stated as such on here in the past couple of years, however I don’t comment on every blog posting or article. ) I am also aware the truly the best O-linemen take years to develop and while JuCo’s don’t work out to a large percentage of the time, there are cases when they do.
I fully believe we need to give Grimes the time to develop what he has been handed and recruit what he needs at the positions, and only asking to see if the coaching staff may be considering seeking that 1 or 2 rare exceptions of JuCo Talent that has developed some after HS and could have a short term positive impact in the next season or two, as it is obvious during and after the spring game this is still the weak link in our team. (AND that is NOT the new coaches fault).
This is exactly the sort of ranting that I’m talking about, Crooked Road. You’ve made a claim about VT’s strength and conditioning program (see #8, #13, and #15). But you haven’t supported it with any facts – you’ve just invited others to do their own research to confirm or dispute your claim. Even if we wanted to do the research, the test that you’ve suggested (whether low-rate recruits have become starts, and whether highly-rated recruits have become top NFL prospects) wouldn’t show “cause and effect” with regards to the strength and conditioning program, because there are lots of reasons other than S&C why college football players excel or don’t excel. If you’re so sure that VT’s strength and conditioning program is “stuck in the 1990′s”, then you tell us what equipment and training techniques VT isn’t using that other elite college football programs are using.
Also, for a small sample of recent Hokies who have developed from lightly-regarded recruits to elite college players, or from highly-regarded recruits to prime NFL prospects, see Danny Coale, Cody Grimm, Jake Grove, Brandon Flowers, Corey Moore, Duane Brown, and Darryl Tapp (all 3-star recruits or less who excelled at VT and/or were drafted in the first round), and David Wilson, Ryan Williams, Kevin Jones, Michael Vick, and DeAngelo Hall (all 4- or 5-star recruits who excelled at VT and were drafted in the first round or the top of the 2nd round). That’s off the top of my head.
Excellent post Sam S (#23).
23 ss, none of which were the result of S&C factors, so you’re in the water on that once again… Come back when you present to me a John Engelberger-type prospect that developed because of S&C, which you cannot do. John Engelberger was over a decade ago, and once a decade does not make a factor, it makes an exception to the rule. None of the players you listed were ‘improved’ by Gentry. Show facts, they weren’t, we all know it, but you wanted to toss out fluff with zero substance. Show me gus who excelled in Gentrification and that was the result of their high draft selection. Tick, tock, tick, tock…
I’ll be waiting…
#23 Thanks Sam S, you are saying what I’m thinking. I didn’t ask crooked because I wanted to defend Mike Gentry, far from it. I just wanted to know what Mr. road knew that the rest of us didn’t, and since he’s the one making the assertions I figured he should be able to back it up so I could at least know where he was coming from. I should have known better than to ask, I have been trying to pin him down on the subject for a couple of months, with no better result than this time. When someone makes a claim, it is not incumbent on the rest of us to prove him wrong, as he claims, but for him to make the factual statements, which he says he possesses but won’t tell us, to back up what he says.
I, for one, will not do research on Google or anything else to prove crooked wrong, I am interested in his take in light of several statements about the S&C program and Mike Gentry that he claims knowlege of but refuses to explain. I’d rather use my computer time to read what others have to say.
Not to worry, Andy, I will leave this one alone….again…. since crooked won’t answer my question.
#24, hey danny! You’ve been quiet for a long time. Since you only – ONLY – post to attack me, it’s funny how you have so little to say about anything other than to attack me. You want to compliment Hokie sports? Be a man and do so! I can’t remember you EVER doing that, but only you criticizing those who might question Hokie perfection.
We could list your last ten posts and see how many were attacks on me and how many were about anything positive about Hokie sports, but you’d be embarrassed, so just keep that in mind.
Perch, I’m not a hooker or a pole dancer. I don’t do it on command. I’ll present my case as I desire, and if you care you will check it out. You don’t care, you just want to argue, so I’ll dare you to do your own work. We all know you won’t, because all you want to do is defend the shield. If there is ever a time you care, you can check it out, but we all know you won/t, so keep sniping without sustenance. This is minor for me, I’ve got bigger fish to fry. Chase if you’re up to it, but we all know you’re not.
Crooked Road (#27), I didn’t realize my 3 word post (#24) was an attack on you. Are you paranoid or something? Keep on trolling!!
Sigh. More bait-and-switch from Crooked Road. CR, there’s no way to prove that a strength-and-conditioning program (in Blacksburg or anywhere else) “caused” a low-rated recruit to excel at the college level, or “caused” a highly-rated recruit to develop into a top NFL prospect. A strength and conditioning program is one of many factors in a player’s development, including the player’s own motivations, aspirations, work ethic, and genetics; the quality of the player’s teammates (Matt Cassell sure did look good when he played in New England); the other personnel at the player’s position (David Wilson didn’t get many touches when Ryan Williams was healthy); the coaching at the player’s position, the scheme, etc. If you want to persuade anyone that VT’s strength and conditioning program is inferior, then you need to offer some evidence that (1) VT’s strength and conditioning program operates differently from S&C programs at other elite schools, (2) VT’s players have objectively poorer development in strength and conditioning than players at other elite schools, and/or (3) VT does a poorer job than other elite schools of developing lower-ranked prospects into stars and higher-ranked prospects into NFL prospects.
You’ve shown none of the above. You suggested that VT failed to meet the third criterion, and when confronted with evidence to the contrary, you changed your argument – a cowardly and intellectually dishonest tactic that you resort to frequently in your posts. You claim to have the inside scoop on how VT is “stuck in the 1990′s” with respect to the first criterion, but everyone here knows that you’re blowing smoke.
And you’re right – you’re entitled to present your “case” as you desire. And the rest of us are entitled to weigh your case and conclude that you not only have no facts to support your claims, you can’t even tell the difference between facts that support your claims, facts that contradict your claims, and facts that are irrelevant to your claims.
However, I commend you for your successful trolling. I’m usually able to spot the trolls and ignore them, but you pulled me in for a few rounds. Lesson learned.
Anybody else have any thoughts on the quality of our S&C program? I’ve always thought of it as a strength, since VT seems to have a lot of lightly regarded prospects who become beasts in the trenches. Anecdotally, VT does seem to have a high rate of foot / ankle / knee / hamstring injuries. Anybody have any idea whether the injury rates at VT are unusually high?
Excellent post Sam S (#30)
#30 Spot on, thanks.
Anyone ever notice how people who offer the least useful opinions speak (or write) the loudest? They also resort to insulting people who question their opinions to circumvent substantiating their opinion. Pitiful.
crooked road told me I could figure this all out in 20 minutes of research. I spent thirty and got nothing I could form an opinion on. I am a functionally illiterate computer user, came to it late in life and lack basic fundamentals necessary to substantive research. I really am interested in our program, its strengths and weaknesses compared to others and would appreciate insights not easily gained with my admitted insufficiencies. That said, I am lazy and have a life that doesn’t include inside knowlege of college sports, so I guess I hoped for too much that someone with a stated opinion and a claim to such knowlege could help me understand why he stated said opinion. I know, it was toooooooo much to ask.
perch, I share your embarrassment at your lack of fundamental knowledge. I really expected more of you, but I see that you deliberately chose to dumb yourself down as much as possible to contain your comfort level.
That’s indeed your choice. I tend to laugh at people like you who choose to select ignorance over knowledge, but that is your choice. Keep celebrating your 1996 mindset, and all the ignorance since that it entails. That’s a big antiquated thumbs up for you!
perch, twenty minutes of watching kitten videos does not equal ‘investigation’. Hope you had fun pretending to care, but you do provide comedic relief in your denial. Hey!?! Did you see the one about the squirrel riding the water skies? That’s a good three minutes of excuse you can use…
Thanks, crooked, you really know how to turn a fella’s head. Read #33 steve’s above comment, he nailed you on the haid.
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Sun, 08 Dec 2013 03:46:21 +0000
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