Muslim wife justifies knife attack on infidel husband
What is a wife to do when her husband occasionally drinks, asks her to wear short skirts, or “forces” her to eat pork?
For one Muslim wife in New York, the answer was: try to kill him – allegedly. The Associated Press has the story:
Rabia Sarwar, 37, pleaded not guilty to attempted murder and was freed on $25,000 bail. She told police in a written statement that she was emotionally abused by her husband, Seikh Naseem.
“He made me do so many things that are against Islam,” she wrote in a statement to police.
“I did all that just to make him happy but inside me there was a war,” she continued.
Naseem suffered cuts to his neck, cheek and hand early Wednesday before fighting Sarwar off and dialing 911 from his Staten Island home, authorities said.
This is yet one of millions of examples of how the conflict among tribes (religion is one among many kinds of tribes) results in human misery.
Thoughts?
October 31, 2009 - 1:14 AM
When you have a hammer, everything becomes a nail.
Its a shame that religion causes so much violence..Most religions preach peace..but the anger of strong believers to those of differing beliefs causes everything from this to all out war..wonder what the world would be like with no religion at all..just living for today..
Tony
I too wonder, but I doubt I will see it.
Perhaps the problem isn’t religion in general but the use of things like religion to justify our actions. Perhaps religion is just too easy a justification for the evils in our own hearts. Perhaps as a creation of man, it embodies too much of our own ill will and evil.
If the eradication of religion is not possible, perhaps we can instead hope for the moderation of it.
Religion is a “Tribe”?? What “Tribe do you belong to Dan?? The Eastern Orthodox Temple of the Moonbats?
As verified by the second second post, I kind of figured some anti – religion type would try to attempt to place this type of behavior on an equivalent with being typical of “strong believers” of ALL religions (especially CHRISTIANS, right Tony??), which is just intellectually dishonest. Tony must have had the song “Imagine” playing when he posted.
Islam is constantly portrayed as “mainstream” and with over 1,2 billion Muslims worldwide, it should be. Yet this type of activity seems to be a regular tenet of this faith, with no condemnation from top clerics and leaders. Denigration of women, honor killings, strapping bombs to women and children, decapitations, a Christian – convert child fearing mortal retribution from her own father, and this week, a throat cutting, seem to be more sanctioned by their silence than condemned. This woman was described in the AP story as a “Devout” Muslim – ask yourself – is this something a “Devout” Catholic would do? or a Baptist, or a Presbyterian or Methodist? There are radicals in every faith, but the dividing line of what is mainstream and what is radical in what is supposed to be a “Mainstream” faith is blurred beyond distinction. That blurred vision is defined again and again by the response from mainstream Islam to these perverted atrocities.
“I did my best to cut his throat,” Rabia Sarwar wrote. This is the religion of “Peace”??
By the way Dan I want you to know this tribal member will be going to church tomorrow in full tribal battle garb, wearing the Breastplate of Righteousness and carrying the Sword of the Lord.
VVarlock,
The “eradication all religion”?????? You are just yanking some chains with a phrase like that.
I was sort of thinking of Imagine..and btw Im a Baptized Baptist..non practicing of course..I got kicked out when I was 14 because I talked to my girlfriend during church..my preacher gave me a hard time after the service..I placed my hand on his shoulder and said”now isnt that brotherly love” he through my hand off his shoulder and roared”your the type of guy I like to cut down”..he was a real sweetheart..really had the “joy” didnt he?
Joe C,
I identify with many tribes, just like you. One of them is in the area of religion. I’m a Christian. But I’m NOT a part of the subtribe “loud, idiotic, reactive know-nothing freak Christians” or the subtribe known as “abortion clinic bombing Christians” or the subtribe “anti-gay marriage Christians.” I would doubt that you are members of these either. Nor am I a member of the subtribes “feels threatened by other religions” or “suspicious of other religions.” And yes, I am fully aware that many members of those subtribes question whether I belong at all in the big tribe. One of my subtribes, “live and let live” Christians, is viewed with great suspicions by other subtribes.
Other tribes I belong to: Caucasian, American, bicyclist, parent, journalist, reader and there are many many many others.
Dan
I said “the eradication of religion…” not “eradication all religion”. Perhaps I am trying to elicit a response, but actually there are some very good reasons to support not just the moderation of religion, but its eradication.
Joe C
You missed that conversation where we discussed religion as a sort of super-tribalism giving group/family identity to all in that tribe.
Strongly religious types commit all sorts of atrocities on the basis of their absurdities (Voltaire).
Trying to kill or killing abortion doctors seems to be a christian tenet. There do you see how easy it is to conflate anecdote with evidence. The history of the christian religion is rife with evils perpetrated in its name. The Islamic religion is in its infancy, at a similar time christianity was running the inquisition, killing witches and perpetrating the crusades.
Your religious imagery is childish. Do you really become a knight every Sunday? Do you partake in knightly things like the crusades, oppressing everyone who believes differently, assaulting heretics and serving god in the manner all christian knights did?
Proud member of the Gonzo tribe.
Hey Joe..ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades?..But Im by no means saying its just Christians..theyve all done there share of their”Gods” work..including mudering for the cause
To put myself in an unusual position, I’m going to take up for religion in general on this thread.
Granted, plenty of faiths get the brunt of the blame for the bad behavior of their adherents. On the other hand, faith also drives a lot of good behaviors too….there are churches providing overnight housing and food for homeless, establishing soup kitchens, engaging in plenty of activities which benefit their communities. If organized religion were genuinely “eradicated” (purely rhetorical because that’s not happening), would the benefits disappear along with it?
Maybe this woman thought her husband was imposing on her faith. Maybe she was just mad because he hadn’t taken the trash out for the 103rd time and needed an excuse to try to kill him. When women go nuts and kill their kids because they think God told them to, we don’t see the Christian faith indicted wholesale because of a few nutty apples.
Kristen
There are no actions performed by religion or for religious motivations which can not be performed without religion.
I agree that it is bad form to conflate the actions of one or of a group within the group with the actions of the whole. We should not indict christianity or islam for the actions of the fringe. The core tenets that are held by all or virtually all members are bad enough without looking into the fringe’s interpretation.
I wonder what it is he made her do that was against islam… My perverted mind read something sexual into that bit.
VVarlock,
Follow the link and read the story….she says he forced her to eat pork and wear short skirts, and he drank. She says they were married under false pretenses (it was an arranged marriage) because he professed to be an observant Muslim. There’s a hint, though it’s not absolutely clear, that the husband may have bought his wife from her family for $30,000.
She felt trapped and believed she had no way out but to kill him.
I know you understand this, but some comment by others make me wonder whether they do: I offered this story up NOT as any sort of anti-Islam screed, but because it illustrated evil arising from conflict between tribes.
And again, folks, religion is ONE of many sets of tribes from which conflict arises. No tribe is inherently evil, and many of them do good things, including religious ones.
But the result of conflicts between tribes (not always religious ones) often is evil. There is not doubt that it is the cause of most of the human misery and suffering in this world, and it always has been.
Pathetic that one of the ‘tribes’ often discriminated against (like by selling them into marriage to someone you obviously do not know) represents about half the population of the world and 100% of the mothers, sisters, wives and daughters.
Misogyny is one of the most vile and evils things in this world and without religion, I doubt it would have been allowed to continue this long and to such a degree.
“she says he forced her to eat pork and wear short skirts, and he drank. ”
An absurd statement. I can’t believe you guys fell for it. The problem is not religion. The problem is a violent drama queen who is quick to play the victim. What does her precious religion say about knifing your husband?
You guys were just looking for yet another excuse to blame religion.
People don’t blow up abortion clinics because they are religious. They blow up abortion clinics because they don’t like abortion. We have more churches being burned by anti-theists than abortion clinics being bombed.
Henry, find me a church that’s been burned lately by “anti theists”.
And when was the last time an abortion doctor was shot by a non-theist. That particular motivation is religion, complicated with some other nuttery, but religion.
Time to ban the knives!
There’s nothing people won’t do if they can convince themselves they’re doing it for God.
PU
Britain had a knife buy back earlier this year I’m sure they would second that thought.
Just like the father that ran his daughter over from becoming to westernized?
I guess being a Muslim driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee makes him….
Exempt.
Static Lines,
Britain is onto something. That’s why the knife crime is going down there.
If Muslims can’t drive responsibly, we should ban the automobiles as well.
I see a lot of stone throwing from folks with no real room to do so. While more of the “tribes” have become enlightened and are willing to look at their own scripture and Holy books with new thinking and accommodations, not all have. The people who practice such Sharia type of Islam are indeed literally more “tribal” than their enlightened and new thinking counterparts as well as generally less educated and well balanced mentally. If someone tricks you (or forces you) to eat pork, wear clothing or behaves badly, that is on them and not you so yes, her “reasons” are more than suspect to Muslims who will hear of it.
Of course the Muslim fundamentalists will make the headlines, but there are harmful fundamentalists in every community. While most never explode in anger or murder, it is not unknown among any fundamentalist group. The problem and the enemy is extremism no matter the religion or lack of it.
This doesn’t reflect anything upon ALL religion, just Islam.
Witten 23
I would disagree entirely.
It reflects on All Religion, but only the Fundagelical fringe of each one. All fundagelical nutjobs can be motivated to atrocities by their absurdities. It could be christian Fundies or Islamic Nutjobs or Jewish crazies, but those who refuse to cast any light upon their religious beliefs or consider their tenets with reason and intellect are prey to this kind of lunacy.
I do not judge all christians by the foolishness of the crazy WND fringe just as I do not judge all Republicans by the standard of the R.I.N.O.s and Palin.
Warlock,
A Muslim woman tried to kill her husband. Your attempt to equate ALL religions is silly and useful only to you, an atheist. Twist and stretch as you might…all religions are not the same.
PEOPLE are all capable of horrible things, religion or not.
Witten
Yes, people are capable of evil whether religious or not.
However, credulous theistic nutbags are more easily motivated (especially by those who speak to the very religious, jingoistic, left or right wing) to commit such acts. Not the normal religious joe on the corner typically, but the extremists, the unstable fundagelicals like Roeder or Phelps.
Perhaps more easily is not correct. Perhaps it would be better said that it is another possible motivation to cause crazy or unstable people to do things which you or I would not. Another fulcrum that can be used to pry them into evil actions.
Henry #15
In #16 Kristen asked for you to provide facts, details, evidence for your claim here about anti-theists burning churches.
I will ask again, Find me one church this century which has been burned by anti-theists.
As for the rest of your scurrilous comment, “People don’t blow up abortion clinics because they are religious. They blow up abortion clinics because they don’t like abortion.”
They don’t like abortion because they are religious (afaik all protests of, bombings of and killings of abortion doctors are motivated by religion, usually a religious group in particular. Operation Rescue describes themselves as “one of the leading pro-life Christian activist organizations in the nation” and calls their founder/president’s office a ‘ministry’ and this is the organization to which Roeder had his ties). I have yet to see anyone praising the killing of Dr. Tiller without also saying things like “praise jesus”.
Also, they have to completely misunderstand their own religion in order to hate abortion through it. The bible is clear, in its bronze age ignorance: human life begins at first breath. Before that breath, men are no better than animals (or possibly dirt) because it was/is through the breath that god put the soul into adam. It says this at least 4-5 times in the bible.
Sorry I don’t hang about like I should. This one took just a few minutes to find. I personally know of a case in NC where the burner was anti-Christian.
“Today, those arrested for torching black churches include a deranged 13-year-old girl who harbored anti-Christian beliefs, ”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm
More here:
http://nwrepublican.blogspot.com/2007/11/liberals-burning-with-hate.html
Check these comments(language):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31Dmv9qiZc
Here’s a documentary about anti-theist church burning(“engaging in rampant church burning”):
http://www.cinematical.com/tag/afi+fest+2008/
Woohoo….Satan
http://www.sataniccoalition.com/churchburning/
Even Elton John celebrated a little church burning action
http://newsbusters.org/node/11750
The only reason that you blame Christianity for the killing of abortionists is because you don’t like Christians. You are basing your belief on your prejudice, not the evidence. They kill because they are anti-abortion. They don’t need to be Christian to do it. Quick: Name the church that Eric Rudolph regularly attended.
A Norwegian metal band?
A nutty THIRTEEN YEAR OLD??
Thank God we have sources.
Henry
A read of the one actual news article from your post about an actual burning or burning suspect (from 1996 and thus not in this century) reveals a child described as deranged, anti-black and anti-christian. Since she is a juvenile I doubt I will be able to access any additional information about her.
I believe you have almost satisfied my conditions and concede that you located one suspect from one burning who was anti-christian.
Of course it was a black church and she was apparently anti-black and she was described as deranged so her motivations are cloudy at best with her being a juvenile preventing us access to her in any meaningful way.
Also, during this same time period of the burning she was convicted of there were @ 50 burnings (more than 30 ‘black’ and 23 ‘white’ churches were damaged in some significant way by fire according to one source link, although their identifying churches by race bothers me).
However, in your earlier post you said “We have more churches being burned by anti-theists than abortion clinics being bombed.” You presented one burning of one church by a person partially labeled as anti-christian. In contrast (and since the time of the girl’s arrest), I can find (in a simple google search) abortion clinic bombings in Birmingham, Alabama and Asheville, NC.
Thus, to make your original point you need 2 more anti-theist church burnings, while I concede you pretty much met the conditions I set in my challenge.
Henry-
“Quick: Name the church that Eric Rudolph regularly attended.”
I’m not aware of any church he was attending around the time he was caught, which isn’t a surprise as he was too busy running and hiding like the slimy criminal he was. However, he claims to be Catholic. He also frequently cited Biblical passages as justification for his stance on abortion.
Jason
Rudolph was not a church guy from the get-go. Read the book “Lone Wolf”. He later converted after his arrest.
Warlock
I’m just telling you. Face it, a anti-theist burning a church just isn’t big news. A racist burning a black church is big news. I personally know of two cases from my former hometown. The fact that the newspaper doesn’t leave those stories in the public domain cannot be helped. The point is not that anti-theists burn churches. People do stupid stuff. The point is that abortion clinics are more dangerous to pro-lifers than abortionists. That is easily proven with recent attacks on pro-lifers. The dangers of pro-lifers is way overblown.
Henry
Although your post does nothing to counter my point that the pro-life movement is anti-biblical, I will address the attacks you allege.
I am not aware of any attacks on “Pro-life” demonstrators at abortion clinics.
I did a Google News search “”attack on” pro-life”. It yielded 19 results, of which there was only one in which a anti-freedom activist was assaulted. That result
http://www.lifenews.com/state4538.html
is from what appears to be an anti-choice site of reputation I am not aware so I can not evaluate their credibility or accuracy. It also details a very limited assault on an anti-choice activist who was not at a clinic, was holding a racially charged sign and was only superficially injured.
Now in their coverage there is a claim of another incident where an anti-freedom activist was killed (again not at an abortion clinic but in front of a high school) in Michigan, although the coverage is again theirs.
I have yet to see evidence that “abortion clinics are more dangerous to pro-lifers than abortionists.”
While I do not doubt that there are incidents and do not need you to present them, it is interesting that there were so few when the implication (not just by you) is that they are frequent.
In contrast, the very first article in the search “clash between pro-life pro-choice assault”
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=clash+between+pro-life+pro-choice+assault&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=3536bfc47f33e0c8
The very first article in that search shows an arrest of an anti-choice clinic blocker for assaulting a pro-choice access facilitator.
Next was a forum and a Huffington Post article where there was no detail regarding physical assault between the involved groups.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=clash+between+pro-life+pro-choice+assault&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=3536bfc47f33e0c8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-bronstein/obamas-latest-feat—brid_b_161095.html
After that was an About.com article
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/abortion/tp/Pro-Life-vs-Pro-Choice.htm
which was fact based an about the overarching conflict with no details of assaults.
And the fifth is an article on a Study about abortion-related polls by an Kent State Sociology professor. I saw nothing about assaults in that link either.
So, of the top 5 articles in that search I saw one assault, by the forces (undoubtedly almost entirely followers of the abrahamic religions) arrayed against choice (despite their anti-biblical stance).
What would we do without google?
The pro – life stance is based on verses in the Bible that state
“For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb”.”Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” ” For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do”. These are just a few examples.
In other words, God has a plan for every baby that is conceived. And who is to say that we have not already aborted babies that may have had the cure for cancer , HIV or some of the other horrific problems we are faced with today infused inside of them as part of God’s plan for their life and our world? So therefore VVarlock – I challenge your assumption that the pro-life (anti-abortion really, after all who is con-life?) movement is not biblical. The violence associated with it is certainly not biblical and absolutely not christian.
Now, aside from the obvious religious connotation, is not the one of the basic tenants of a civilized society to protect the weakest and most innocent among us? What is weaker or more innocent than an unborn child?
Abortion as birth control is as wrong as killing a new born baby because it is an inconvenience, or killing your 80 year old dad because he is too much trouble, or mowing down the homeless because they seemingly serve no purpose.
And what is all this “tribe” stuff anyway. Maybe if we quit looking at each other as ” members of a tribe” and started thinking in terms of
” members of the human family” we could make some progress.
Will,
Right. Unfortunately, it is human nature for us to look for differences among each other, divide ourselves, and then battle each other. Those differences are in a variety of ways: gender, race, religion, or even sect of the same religion. National origin, hair color, eye color, even hobby.
It’s why the Hindus and Sikhs, or Tutsis and Hutus, or Sunnis and Shi’ites kill each others — or the Catholics and Protestants in some places.
When I was a kid I was an AMERICAN and thats it. What ever happened to “E pluribus unum.” Isn’t that what our country was founded on. The Pols and MSM want us all to break off into little “tribes.” Remember easily divided, easily conquered!
This phenomena affects the world, Walker. Not only this nation. But you’re right about one thing: we have been divided. By race, creed, education level, issue, and many other ways.
I could construct an argument, btw, that the smart-money guys (and gals) have raised issues such as guns, abortion, gay marriage, illegal wars etc., to distract us while they’ve stolen all our money.
I guess I plead guilty to playing along with that game…..
Will-
I typically like to steer clear of abortion debates. But this was too much too ignore.
“In other words, God has a plan for every baby that is conceived.”
What is God’s plan for miscarried babies? How about stillborn babies? Or those born with painful and incurable disorders that may give them lives measured in minutes?
“And who is to say that we have not already aborted babies that may have had the cure for cancer , HIV or some of the other horrific problems we are faced with today infused inside of them as part of God’s plan for their life and our world?”
And who is to say that an abortion hasn’t prevented the maniacal world leader who would start Armageddon? It’s a stupid argument either way. You want to reduce abortions? Start encouraging the Neanderthals in power to teach *effective* sex education instead of abstinence only, which has been proven over and over and over to not work. Start taking your young men aside and telling them that you will personally kick their as**s six ways to sunset if they don’t take the precautions necessary to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. And start spiking your daughter’s Fruity Pebbles with birth control pills as soon as she has her first menstrual cycle.
“And what is all this “tribe” stuff anyway. Maybe if we quit looking at each other as ” members of a tribe” and started thinking in terms of
” members of the human family” we could make some progress.”
I’m with you there. Unfortunately, as an animal, that’s not how we are programmed.
“They shoot without shame in the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent or the color of your shirt
Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled”
Neil Peart
Will
Apparently you missed the discussion we were having about the divisions of Humanity into groups and Religion and nationalism being a kind of super-tribal grouping. We spent many comments rattling around this concept, but it has been a while.
The christian pro-life position flies in the face of the multiple bible verses which explicitly state that breath is the key of human life. There are several verses which I have pointed out previously that clearly state that without breath man is no more than an animal. Genesis 2:7 specifically is the most important. Without the breath man is without soul.
See also Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
And Ezekiel 37:10 … and the breath came into them, and they lived .
As for the bible saying god was involved with the formation of humans before their birth, it also says that god is involved with all creation of everything. So, killing an animal would be biblically equivalent to killing a fetus based upon the breath and creation stories.
As for the rest of your verses, please provide citations since so much of the bible is taken out of context by christians to suit their purposes.
If your god has a plan for every baby that is conceived and is all-powerful and all-knowing then abortion can not be against his will. Because it would have to be in accordance with his plan if he were all knowing or the woman would be thwarting his plan and he could not be all-powerful.
Your ‘plan of god’ premise proves nothing.
Also, in the verse you quoted he is speaking to a specific individual and the minor anthropic principle shows that the person hearing the words had to be alive to be hearing them.
Also, your god is the greatest abortionist of all. According to christians, we were made the way we are by god. This includes our reproductive systems. Systems, which according to scientists miscarry (abort) over 30% of all pregnancies.
Now, as for my actual position, as I have stated previously, I am anti-abortion. I agree that there is value in the potential of human life. I just disagree that the bible is a good way to argue against abortion when it is such an evil, bloody, vile concoction of bronze age evil and bigotry.
I also think that while I am against abortion and would counsel anyone who asked me my opinion on the matter that there are alternatives and of the value of life; it is not my job to legislate my opinion onto others.
Walker 38
I agree completely. The tribalism and super-tribalism of group identity makes us more easily manipulated by those in power.
This is one way in which religion is used by the powerful to instigate the masses to evil.
I remember a saying which exemplifies this tribalistic feeling.
Me against my brother
My Brother and I against my cousin
My brother, my cousin and I against my neighbor
My brother, my cousin, my neighbor and I against a stranger…
and on and on.