Tuesday’s column: Bust of Stalin raises eyebrows, even hackles
Soviet dictator Josef Stalin
Root through the annals of world history and you would be hard-pressed to find any more evil and unprincipled person than Adolf Hitler.
Except, perhaps, for Josef Stalin, the Soviet dictator and Hitler’s partner in infamy.
By most historians’ reckoning, Stalin killed at least twice as many people as the Nazi warlord. It’s fair to question whether World War II ever would have started if it wasn’t for him.
That’s why it’s rather surprising that the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford plans to erect a privately funded bust of Stalin at the monument next year.
December 22, 2009 - 8:38 AM
Dan,
One can’t help but notice the irony. At a time when Russia has turned away from Communism and thoroughly repudiated Stalin, people in the US would consider a bust in his memory? It sort of reminds you of the old joke in the 90′s that after the fall of the Soviet Union the only market for Marxist and Socialist text books was to American university professors.
The “what if” and “if only” scenarios can go on forever and make for good fiction and action movies. The fact is that we will never know for sure what might have happened if Stalin had not agreed to partition Poland. However, one extremely sobering thought, if Hitler had had four or five more years to develop his fledgling nuclear programs, his rocket programs, and his fighter jet programs the world as we know it today might have been totally different. Stalin may have unintentionally blundered into ultimately saving hundreds of millions of lives.
Danny Osborne
Draper, VA
I have to say, Dan, I disgree with pretty much everything in this piece.
You claim that the USSR only entered the war against Germany after hostilities had already begun. What you don’t mention is that they still managed to get into to BEFORE we did. We didn’t get involved in the war until after Pearl Harbor, which means we weren’t making any meaningful effort until 1942.
That Vietnam vet is completely wrong with his assessment of Stalin’s bust at at DDay memorial being commensurate with a bust of Bin Laden at the WTC site. We didn’t fight WWII against the USSR and were in fact fighting on the same side as them, although I bet you couldn’t get 10% of the US today to identify the USSR as one of the Allies ( mostly due to the fact that the major role played by the Russians was downplayed in our schools during the cold war).
Had the Russians not kept the Germans busy on the Eastern front, effectively splitting their forces across the continent, it’s doubtful we would have won that war. Just because we quickly became adversaries of the USSR when the war was over doesn’t begin to change the fact that they played a significant role in our victory. The USSR lost over 23 million people in WWII. We lost something over 400K. So tell me who made the greater sacrifice.
Oh, the source I used for casualty numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
This is just one but they don’t differ by much. The usual result is that the US took about 1% of the casualities the USSR did.
Mussolini begged Hitler to wait but Hitler saw the handwriting on the wall. The surrounding nations were starting to worry about Hitler and were building their military power. Hitler banked that Poland was out on a limb diplomatically. He was wrong. Stalin trusted Hitler too much and bit on the Poland deal.
Ironically, the day before Hitler invaded Russia, the American Communists were calling for the US to stay out of the war. The day after the invasion, the American Communist Party demanded that America declare war on Germany. That led to a mass defection in the American Communist Party which turned out to be a Soviet tool.
Kristen,
You make some good points, particularly as to when America entered the war. However, I take a bit of issue with “Had the Russians not kept the Germans busy on the Eastern front…..”
It’s not like the Russians had much of a choice but to fight. Initially, the USSR profited greatly from the nonaggression pact with Germany. All the way up until the day the Germans attacked, Stalin was still kissing Hitler’s butt in just about every way possible.
It was only after they were attacked that the Soviets got into the fight. In that respect their entry into the war far less than noble.
It was gangsters turning on each other after one doublecrossed the other.
Dan, I can’t speak to Stalin’s nobility any more than I can to our own. All I can say is…every country does what’s best for itself when the time comes, and to speak to Henry’s point – the Communists here were not the only ones who stood against our entry into the war.
I don’t speak for Stalin particularly, and can’t personally defend him. All I say is that I think the contribution made by the USSR during that war has been seriously downsized and understated since then, mostly I’m sure because of the Cold War and our subsequent emnity. I wasn’t joking when I said that I doubted 10% of the population here would identify the USSR as one of our Allies, and I think that’s a little disrepectful as well as historically inaccurate.
Politics and war can make for strange bedfellow, and 23 million dead has to count for something, even to the most rabid Cold War adherent.
It’s not like the Americans had much of a choice but to fight. Initially, the US profited greatly from supplying arms to the UK. All the way up until the day the Germans declared war on the US, Roosevelt was still trying to avoid war in about every way possible.
It was only after they were attacked that the US got into the fight. In that respect their entry into the war far less than noble.
Dan, you have to keep in mind that Nations do not have noble causes, they have interests. The US stood by and watched WWII unfold to the point that the UK was barely hanging on and the Japanese were enslaving the Chinese. The US entered the war when it was no longer in our interest to remain neutral. That in no way denigrates the sacrifices our soldiers and citizens endured when the call came.
You can really jack up the casualty numbers by clearing minefields with unarmed soldiers and machine-gunning anyone who doesn’t move forward.
Displaying a bust of Josef Stalin on American soil should only be done in some “appropriate” manner. Perhaps we could place the bust in a concrete cube with bars on the front, or else display Comrade Stalin as a full length statue, standing on a platform with a noose around his neck.
Dan: I have been appalled about this plan since it was published with little fanfare over two years ago. I was part of the American Legion delegation (which included Lacey Putney) who went to McIntosh in September 2007 and urged him not to place Stalin on a pedestal (a place of honor) at the Memorial that honors the Allies who gave their lives so we could be free today. American Legion Post 54 in Bedford unanimously approved a resolution at our November meeting condemning the action. Letters ferom concerned individuals have forwarded to our legislators, Governor, and superintendents of the Military Academies and others informing them of this inappropriate action. Record the history — no problem — but don’t place Stalin’s bust on a pedestal in one of the main entrances. The donor has been announced: “The Estate of Louise L Terrell”. The son of Gary Powers (of U2 fame) is creating a Museum to the Cold War. This would be an appropriate place. Bedford will have the distinction of honoring one of the most brutal, evil men in the history of the world! I wish the national medial would pick up on this and place some serious pressure on removing this problem. The D-Day Memorial is a national asset and has enough financial problems than to add to the problems with this action.
This is ridiculous.
Many on here have made some great points, but it comes down to this.
If we were at War with Radical Islam (oh yeah, we ARE) and Kim Jung Il of North Korea decided to bomb the tar out of terrorist training camps in Pakistan to protect HIS interests in the region, I’d be pleasantly surprised.
But, I would never consider HONORING the maniac alongside the brave soldiers of the U.S. Military.
The bottom line on Stalin is that he is ranked in the top 3 of the most evil and bloodiest tyrants of the 20th Century. Right there with Adolf Hitler and Mao Zedong. He ordered the cold-blooded murders of his own people. He persecuted and murdered Russian Jews. He used the war to his advantage while scheming to gain more power. Many Russians feel that the Russian people helped the Allies win the war…not Stalin, but, in defiance of Stalin. Do we really want a statue in the United States of a man credited with murders in the millions?
Absolutely right Dan..
The Russians took an incredible beating from Germany…after they were allies Germany turned on them….in fact it is said that only the harsh Russian winter stopped Germany from taking Moskow(not sure how to spell it) itself..and that millions and millions of Russian lives were lost.Ive heard some incredible numbers on that..in the 10s of millions up..Thats why they changed sides..to survive the Nazi onslaught
Its strange what time does..It reminds me of the Yankee Soldier that was honored in Lynchburg….He tried or succeding in killing townspeople and soldiers there and gets a monument..Stalin was a monster who makes Saddam look like lil orphan annie..and has no place on the site that honors our “Greatest Generation”
Normally I applaud your columns, but this time I’m with Kristen. Stalin was an invaluable ally in WWII. His leadership was crucial to stopping and turning back the German invasion of Russia. The eastern front sapped much of the strength of Hitler’s army and helped make the invasion of France in June ’44 a success. Sure, he was a brutal tyrant; but hen it comes to the liberation of Western Europe and defeat of the Third Reich, that’s irrelevant (IMO).
“It reminds me of the Yankee Soldier that was honored in Lynchburg….” Whoa, Tony. I don’t suppose you think much of the Lincoln statue in Richmond, either. Try to imagine this: Americans were fighting Americans, including Virginians fighting on BOTH SIDES, for complex political reasons we could debate ad nauseum, but the fact remains that the American Civil War wasn’t good guys versus bad guys. Let’s honor the soldiers who wore blue and gray, and lay down the battle flags and swords here in the 21st century.
You can take any view of Stalin you want to, just don’t pretend that ignoring his role in WWII is anything close to historically accurate.
This from the people who complain about “revisionist history”.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” Arab or Chinese Proverb
“Keep your friends close and your enemies closer” Sun-tzu -Chinese general
You have a good article. The only problem is you didn’t recognize the real problem. It is time for Mcintoish and the current D-Day Board to go.It is obvious that there is poor management which unfortunately has existed since the beginning or they wouldn’t be in the trouble they are now. A full accounting of all funds should be made. Too many high price staff at the top and people doing the work are layed off. Why do they need two buildings in downtown Bedford? Lets get behind this thing and make sure it continues so our kids, grandkids and future can know this piece of history.
I tell you one thing..its amazing how many people on this blog are taking up for one of the biggest murderers in the history of the world..no wonder so many here have no problem with authoritarianism rising up in our own government as we speak.
Its a dishonor to all our soldiers who fought and died on DDAY to even mention Stalins name next to theirs much less a statue.
And Liberty I dont care much for Lincolns statue in Richmond….I hold Lincoln to blame for over 6000,000 horrid deaths..the most American casualties in all our wars combined!
Let me ask you….should we honor Tojo at pearl harbor? Lets put up a plaque.honoring the Japs for attacking Pearl Harbor..and when you get done..put one up honoring Bid Laden at the Twin Towers site..its one thing to forgive your enemies but never ever forget..
Mr. Casey:
The Stalin bust at the D-Day Memorial will serve as a focal point for important conversations – conversations that can help us build a stronger country with a more secure future.
In mid-twentieth century, America’s ostrich-like behavior caused Americans to ignore Adolph Hitler’s Mein Kampf, in which he outlined his plans to conquer the world. Had Americans read the book, they might not have been so reluctant to join the armed resistance to a maniac’s attempts to destroy political freedom and eradicate people because of their religion or ethnicity.
Americans — and particularly Virginians — celebrate the presidency of Woodrow Wilson, and yet it Wilson’s inept performance during the peace talks at the end World War I produced the fertile ground in which Hitler planted his poison seed.
We learn from studying our own leaders who have compromised the principal upon which American democracy is based. It seems only fair to study the leaders of other countries whose political philosophies are divergent from our own.
Stalin did some good. He was present at the Yalta and Anfa conferences where strategic decisions were made for the invasion of Europe. He was instrumental in stalling the invasion of France. An invasion undertaken earlier than June 1944 would have been conducted by troops whose lack of training might have spelled disaster. An earlier invasion might have prevented me from writing this message since my father likely would not have survived the day. Mt father’s survival on D-Day resulted from technical competence and a sense of camaraderie that can only be forged by time.
I feel some personal animosity toward Hitler, Stalin, V.I. Lenin, Idi Amin, Lon Nol, Ngo Dinh Diem, and a host of other people who ruined (or ended) the lives of people who just wanted to work, raise families and go to their homes in the evening for a meal and a rest. That animosity does not keep me from wanting to learn from their treachery, and I hope the bust at the D-Day Memorial will cause others to discuss and learn from the murderous butcher Stalin.
The essence of American democracy is open debate of important issues, and sometimes that debate is painful because it is sparked by the image of someone whose philosophy of governance is anathema to the very ideals of that democracy — Stalin, Hitler, Pelosi, et. al.
The goal of such debate and discussion should be to make us more vigilant and more involved in steering the ship of state so that whenever and wherever another Stalin (or Hussein) arises, we will not hesitate to act swiftly to stop him before he becomes so powerful that we have to use force of arms to stop him.
Michael Ramsey
Roanoke
Mike.he murdered millions of people..He shouldnt be honored in the same place as our DDay heroes….what about the blood..what about the suffering at this mans hands..great to be philisophical 60 yrs or more later..if you want to have a historic discussion of this murderer.great….but he has no place next to the Bedford boys that gave all..
Michael Ramsey, you make an interesting case. Your assessment of Stalin’s role in WWII is at least history based – that he was a butcher (of his own people) before and after the war isn’t much at issue.
Tony, you make no case. “I don’t like Stalin, he was a meanie” doesn’t constitute an argument. But keep tryin’.
I think I have to agree with Tony.
Unless the bust of Hitler is also going in this museum I am against Stalin’s being there.
No matter who’s side he was on during the war.
His actions color our alliance with him and should give everyone pause. I believe we were on the correct side in WWII and when your enemy is a crazy mass-murdering syphilite even another crazy mass-murderer may seem like a good ally, but in retrospect he was as bad, if not worse than Hitler.
And for everyone here, Stalin was not a communist, barely a socialist, but certainly not a Marxist.
He was a dictator, an autocrat, his state was totalitarian and he could not stand anyone else to hold power of any sort over the people. He created a cult of state and did his level best to eliminate all competitors.
So, if his bust is going to be displayed somewhere it should be beside Hitler’s inwarning to the world about vesting absolute power in one person. Other than that, he can live as an entry in the history books.
I am certain my grandfather would be offended by the intended placement of this murderer’s bust in a building honoring his brothers who did not make it back from D-Day.
I think instead of a statue of Stalin, more appropriately would be a statue of a Russian soldier from WWII. There were many people on both sides that fought valiantly for what they believed in. Using a Russian soldier to represent the people of Russia who fought to defeat Hitler and the many, who were in fact our allies, would serve to give them a dignified place of remembrance here in the USA.
My father was in WWII and he spoke very highly of the Russian soldiers he encountered during and after the war. Just because Stalin turned out to be an a**, does not diminish the sacrifices the Russian people made.
Michael Ramsey, you destroyed your own credibility with one line: “Stalin, Hitler, Pelosi, et. al.” It may well be how your twisted mind sees it, but it was a cheap, unpatriotic and unAmerican shot at a duly elected political leader you are comparing to thuggish mass murdering, dictator mad men.
Stalin is part of the story. It is not supporting his regime or reign of terror to admit the truth. Ignoring the truth to serve your political purpose is exactly how such scoundrels rise to power and do the inhumane, psychotic, things they have done.
People who compare political figures they dislike to evil tyrants need some examination of their own, IMO.
To ignore Stalin would not be an unusual position for the US to take when putting together a WWII commemoration….the French take 100% credit for having singlehandedly liberated Paris.
In DeGaulle’s own words, at the liberation of the French capital…
”
Why do you desire that we hide the emotion which seizes us all, men and women, who are here, at home, in Paris that stood up to liberate itself and that succeeded in doing this with its own hands?
No! We will not hide this deep and sacred emotion. These are minutes which go beyond each of our poor lives. Paris! Outraged Paris! Broken Paris! Martyred Paris! But liberated Paris! Liberated by itself, liberated by its people with the help of the French armies, with the support and the help of all France, of the France that fights, of the only France, of the real France, of the eternal France! Well! Since the enemy which held Paris has capitulated into our hands, France returns to Paris, to her home. She returns bloody, but quite resolute. She returns there enlightened by the immense lesson, but more certain than ever of her duties and of her rights. I speak of her duties first, and I will sum them all up by saying that for now, it is a matter of the duties of war. The enemy is staggering, but he is not beaten yet. He remains on our soil. It will not even be enough that we have, with the help of our dear and admirable Allies, chased him from our home for us to consider ourselves satisfied after what has happened. We want to enter his territory as is fitting, as victors. This is why the French vanguard has entered Paris with guns blazing. This is why the great French army from Italy has landed in the South and is advancing rapidly up the Rhone valley. This is why our brave and dear forces of the interior are going to arm themselves with modern weapons. It is for this revenge, this vengeance and justice, that we will keep fighting until the last day, until the day of total and complete victory. This duty of war, all the men who are here and all those who hear us in France know that it demands national unity. We, who have lived the greatest hours of our History, we have nothing else to wish than to show ourselves, up to the end, worthy of France. Long live France!”
Hey…he didn’t give Stalin any credit either! I guess we’re France now.
I nominate Lavender Lauren for the board of this Memorial.
Her suggestion of a Russian Soldier statue is a much better, more appropriate, remembrance of the contribution of Russia in WWII.
Most of the comments in this blog miss the whole point of why the Stalin bust should not be placed on a pedestal at the D-day Memorial. When Bob Slaughter and his committee conceived the Memorial in the late ’80′s, it was the intent to honor the Allied soldiers, sailors and airmen who lost their life on Jun6, 1944 during the invasion of Normandy. The Memorial was not intended to be a museum, but a place where the VALOR, FIDELITY AND SACRIFICE of those who died would be remembered. No one is questioning that Stalin was an ally on June 6th but there are twelve flags flying at the Memorial that represent the countries who landed in Normandy and the Russian flag is not one of them. Kristan — when you do your “research” on the subject, just remember that the only reason. Stalin was on our side at that time was his own survival and because Hitler made a bad mistake in attacking Russia. Had Hitler been content to honor his “non-aggression” agreement with Stalin, they would have been on the same side as they were when both attacked and divided Poland. You evidently are very young, have not had any military experience and did not lose family members during Stalin’s Cold War.
I totally agree with the comments concerning Stalin’s barbaric and genocidal actions. However, some of the most famous pictures of “the big three” include Stalin. Do we also want to whitewash those old photos and the history books? I think that “revisionist history” is best left for tyrants such as Stalin, not 21st century Americans.
My suggestion would be to add the bust of Stalin, but with a prominent marker that describes his crimes against the Russian and other peoples alongside his place in WWII history. The description could also pay tribute to the valor of the Russian soldiers as well as the vast suffering and hardship of the Russian civilian population at the hands of the Nazis.
Harvey, the Cold War belonged to many countries and leaders, not just Stalin. Second, we joined Stalin’s side…he didn’t join ours. I’m aware the Russians didn’t land in France on DDay….they’d already been holding down the Eastern Front for years by then, giving us time to prepare for our invasion. I don’t have to do “research”….I’ve been to Normandy on multiple occasions, including the year of the 50th anniversary, and I’ve seen it all in person.
I can’t speak to the purpose of the DDay installation. But just because Stalin didn’t provide the same utility to us post-war as he did during, doesn’t change
Chris, I like your idea.
Oops, I was going to say “doesn’t change his role as our ally. As Sandi said, the “enemy of my enemy is my friend”, however short term that might last.
Lets see Kristen …the “case” is that Stalin was a mass murderer.Just because he was forced to ally with us doesnt change that..Sometimes I think you speak just to hear your gums rattle…
Tony
To speak of Stalin is like almost quoting General Cao of third century China said,
“Better for me to wrong the world than for the world to wrong me.”
Stalin’s grandson sues Russian radio station
Ekho Moskvy radio said Saturday the suit was filed against program host Matvei Ganapolsky who read a phrase from a book saying Stalin had approved the shooting of children as young as 12.
Ganapolsky then added: “What kind of bastard would say even one word in his defense.”
Stalin’s legacy has been a subject of fierce debate in Russia. He ordered the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens during the purges, but he is revered by many for turning a struggling nation into a superpower.
Then there’s the common saying in Chinese “speak of Cao Cao and Cao Cao arrives” is the equivalent of the English expression…..
“speak of the devil.”
Tony, you are not perchance under the delusion that your beloved country has clean hands in all “cases”; that we have not only partnered with as well as studiously looked the other way on some really bad guys, but in fact even created them are you?
Tony….just for you.
“Although it has been debated whether the Soviet Union had the intention of invading Germany once it was strong enough,[9] Germany itself broke the treaty and invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941 and started what was known in the USSR as the “Great Patriotic War.” The Red Army stopped the initial German offensive during the Battle of Moscow.”
So…the USSR was essentially at war with Germany in June of 1941.
When did we enter the war against Germany? Well…Germany declared war against the US on December 11, 1941.
Stalin didn’t ally with us hon…we allied with him. He was there first by a long shot.
Personally, I don’t care if you can’t identify your own birthday. But people little to no backround in even relatively recent history shouldn’t be chiming in when questions with historical weight are brought up for discussion. It would be akin to ask Holocaust deniers their opinion on the Holocaust Museum in DC.
I read your column about Dr. William McIntosh’s plan to install a bust of Joseph Stalin at the National D-Day Memorial. I agree that the bust does not belong there and would like to pose a question that might put the argument into a different perspectgive: how does a teacher explain Stalin’s role in the historic landing in Normandy? Were I still teaching, I would have to think twice about taking a class of children to a memorial that distorts history. True, Dr. McIntosh says there will be an explanation under the bust. It contains so much text that no one will stand and read it. Better to keep the bust out of the memorial than to bastardize history. Teaching is hard enough with such a monumental distortion.
I do have one more comment. We are arguing about whether or not an Ally should be immortalized at the D-Day Memorial. As I understand it, the original purpose of the memorial was to honor those who fought and died on the beaches of Normandy, not who were or were not Allies fighting on other fronts. We already have a WWII memorial (sans bust of Stalin, no less), have a D-Day museum in LA (which also does not have a bust of Stalin), and soon a Cold-War museum (where the bust would be more appropriate).
I’m even more perplexed in Dr. McIntosh’s plan to install a bust of Chiang Kai-shek, because he was yet another Ally. I have read many books about WWII, looked at hundreds of photographs, and spoked with men and women who fought in the war. In none of my research have I ever seen a Chinese junk crossing the English Channel with the other Allied forces. Please, let’s leave the D-Day Memorial alone. It should be a memorial to what happened on D-Day, not what happened during WWII.
Mass murderer or not Kristen?.Cut to the chase..
Sandi.I know we dont have clean hands…..but to honor a murderer at the site where we revere our own dead is appalling
Kristen..just for you..the point is Stalin changed his allegiance after getting stomped….we came later to the war.but WE were the key to victory in this war without us…Hitler wins….and Stalin didnt stop Hitler.,,mother nature did.and Russia lost millions upon millions..Why your support for this murderer..
I stand by my statement about Stalin’s contribution to the victory in Europe. I do confess a mental lapse as to the big picture. Several years ago, I served on a board with Bob Slaughter, and I have reviewed several books about World War II, including “The Bedford Boys” by Alex Kershaw. I have had two occasions to talk with Kershaw about his research into the Allies role in that war.
As I mentioned, my father landed at Normandy (later in the day than did Sgt. Slaughter), and his stories about the war, my reading, and listening to Bob SLaughter and Alex Kershaw have given me a deep appreciation for the valor of the American, British and Canadian troops who captured the beaches on D-Day.
Perhaps the elegant solution is to adhere to Bob Slaughter’s original purpose for the D-Day Memorial. Let’s take a cue from Gen, Omar Bradley and honor the soliders who accomplished a seemingly impossible mission, not the politicans who weren’t there.
If Stalin is not represented, then Churchill and Roosevelt should also be absent. As a southerner with a bag full of folksy aphorisms, I am reminded of the breakfast of bacon and eggs where the chicken is merely involved, but the pig is committed.
Commitment is what we should honor.
To Sandi Saunders,
It is never unpatriotic or un-American to make comments about elected officials — I refer you to the fate of the Alien and Sedition Acts adopted in the John Adams administration. The Founders envisioned a free, open dialogue where no one is sacrosanct, not even elected officials.
I will remind you that Adopf Hitler was also an elected official. He decided to ignore the rule of law (and the inclusion of people with whom he disagreed) to advance his own agenda.
The Founders built a system of checks and balances to prevent an elected American citizen from becoming a dictator. Included in the checks and balances are freedom of speech and feedom of the press. It is our patriotic duty to ask why the “emporer is naked,” so to speak.
It is the role of the Speaker of the House — indeed the duty — to build a consensus for legislation. Building a consensus is severly hampered when other members — and the members’ constituents — have questions about legislation or want to change it, and the speaker uses her position to bypass any dialogue that may inhibit progress toward achieving her agenda.
As for her election, she was elected to represent a California cingressional district, and if her district follows national trends, only about 20 percent of the eligible voters went to the polls. She was elected speaker of the House by the Democrats in the House — a slim majority of the 435 members. That is not a resounding mandate to do as she pleases, and it is incumbent upon all Americans to keep such people mindful of their limited mandate.
While I may have overstated her connection to Hitler and Stalin, it still helps make a point of how fragile is our deomcratic republic. Our vigilance will keep Pelosi, Nixon, the McCartheys (general and senator) from becoming dictators.
In the end, I may concede that I am a callous lout for having associated Rep. Pelosi with two maniacal killers, but in doing so, I am not unpatriotic or un-American.
OOPS!
In the penultimate paragraph of my 02 JAB 2010 entry, I refer to the McCartheys (general and senator).
Well whatayaknow, even I make simple mistakes.
The reference was intended to be Gen. McCarthur and Sen. McCarthey.
Michael Ramsey,
Hitler was appointed, not elected. I don’t think he personally ever won a general election, even by a plurality, though many of his party stalwarts were elected to the Reichstag.
Ya know Tony…. I bet in parts of Japan FDR is known as a “mass murderer”.
You’re posing a pointless question.
Russia lost millions and millions DURING THE WAR. They took staggering civilian casualties repelling Hitler’s invasion. You seem to forget this.
I would agree with Betsy and Michael on this particular point…if the purpose of the memorial is strictly to honor those who invaded on DDay…no heads of state belong there. But if it’s meant to present a representation of the “allies”….Stalin belongs there just as Churchill and FDR do.
Im gonna come out of retirement for one last post..
When we dropped the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki we werent even sure if the blast would not blow the earth of its axis..What fools we were and are..
Indeed this was mass murder….at US hands..in our defense..
All war is murder.”thou shalt not kill” has no exceptions that Ive seen..
Stalin murdered his own people..
Its funny Kristen..Bill White is such scum to you because he talks evil deeds..Stalin actually performed evil deeds in the millions and you want to defile a rememberence of those who died for freedom by including his ghastly image..
I dont know how old you are but I bet those who actually fought for the US in WW2 would cringe at the thought of including the image of evil amongst our heroes..to the tune of 99% against..
Lets let them decide instead of blog entities who talk trash but never sacraficed anything for this country in their lives..
I have read with interest the comments that have developed over the past weeks about the Stalin bust. I believe that Bob Slaughter and the original Board of director’s plan was to honor those that fought and died on the Beaches of Normandy. Later Boards have included the history part that seems to be very important now. I agree that if Stalin is removed, it would not detract from the Memorial to remove all of the political honorees and just state their role in a nice plaque. As the Memorial attempts to be included in the National Park system, it does not need any negative concepts like Stalin. Tony’s Jan 2nd comments about the veterans is very true. I also think contributions would be affected. Dan, I wish you would write a followup column that would summarize the comments from your blog which, with the except of only a couple of commentators, agree that Stalin should not be installed at the D-Day Memorial. Maybe Kristan would like to start a Russian Front Memorial where the bust would be more appropriate!
Dan,
Read some 20th century Russian history as well. Stalin, through a variety of purges, killed millions of Russians long before he made his deal with Hitler. I tend to agree with Mr. Koelsch on this one. Putting up a plaque up acknowledging Comrade Stalin’s being the leader of the Soviet Union for at least part of WWII would be sufficient.
Ron, Stalin was in power from 1922-1953. That’s the entire war, and then some.
Harvey and Tony, I guess they can put a statue of Tinkerbelle up there and call her the leader of the USSR in 1945 if that’s what 99% of the WWII vets would want ( I doubt that, FYI), just don’t try to call it history. Frankly, if they’re just going to make up populist nonsense, kids need to stop going there on field trips as there won’t be much “educational” value to be gained.
Removing all political content is far preferable to making up nonsense and calling it a National Park.
FYI Harvey…I can find blogs online that would support UFOs and Bigfoot…should Dan also cite those “sources”?
Dan,
IN RE: your comment of 02 JAN
I know that Hitler was not elected Chancellor, the position from which he wreaked so much ruin. I also know that he lost two elections to von Hindenberg in 1932. It has always been my understanding that following the second 1932 election, instaility in the Reichstag caused a subsequent election during which the Nazi Party won not a majority, but a large number of seats, and Hitler demanded that he be appointed chancellor on the merit of that election.
Over the past four decades, my understanding has been (either from a lecturer who was imprecise, or from my lack of understanding of the lecture) that Hitler had been elected to the Reichstag. I will concede that his personal election was unlikely, and that he demanded the chancellorship as head of the party, but as head of the party, not as a party member elected to the Reaichstag.
Michael
Mr. Casey:
My name is Yuri Panchul. I am a Russian/Ukrainian American living in the United States. I find the idea of installing a bust of Stalin to be ridiculously sick. Are you nuts? This guy not just killed millions, he built the system that converted Russia into a backward, socially and economically undeveloped state. Stalin and his fellow Stalinists stole the future of several generations. Look to North Korea – this is the equivalent of Stalin’s Russia in XXI Century. This artist who created the bust – he is probably just a severely confused individual. What is next? A bust of Hitler? Why do you think Stalin is different from Hitler? If somebody in Bedford is suing the city for putting such a travesty on the public land, I would like to donate money to remove that bust.
Thank you,
Yuri Panchul
Dan
You are saying “the USSR profited greatly from the nonaggression pact with Germany”. Why don’t you mention that Stalin’s pact with Hitler was a response to Munich agreement that UK and France signed a year earlier? Why everyone is having a short memory about it? How it was said by Chamberlain? “I brought you piece”? Yes, he did. It was a piece to UK- in expense of Czechoslovakia. Czechs were betrayed by their allies.
Why Britain and France did not attack Germany after Germans invaded Poland? Are they were afraid? Or, they were hoping that after Poland Hitler would start the war with USSR’s? Poland was betrayed by their allies too.
Munich Pact untied Hitler’s hands and was the cause for WWII.
To Kristen: Thank you.
To Tony
“but WE were the key to victory in this war without us…Hitler wins….and Stalin didnt stop Hitler.,,mother nature did”
Mother-nature is not the only thing that stopped Hitler and Napoleon. There were people involved. Millions of them. They were cold, hungry and often didn’t have enough ammunition. But they had plenty of heart.
And another thing: when Western allies forces start fighting Germany in Europe, Soviet Army was already in Poland. Without Western Allies war probably won’t end in May of 1945, it would go on for a few month longer. But at the end, USSR would win the war.
I don’t know how old you are, but you don’t know history. With access to internet- it’s really shame.
To Yury Pachul: ?????????, ? ??? ???-?? ???? ?? ???????! ???????? ???, ??? ??? ??????????? ????????? ??????? ? ????? ? ???????????, ????????? ?????.
Arsen, a bit of Russian indimidation? Shame on you.
“Interestingly, and than the USSR has not pleased you?! Probably in what has enabled free of charge to study in ????? With disrespect, graduate ?????”
Looks like Russians are coming! You guys should be prepared for 100+ comments in coming days. To the issue:
1. Well, if memorial contain busts of de Gaulle and Kai-Shek, why it should not have Stalin? I am not sure if French troops participated in D-Day landings, but sure that Chinese national troops did not. So, if this memorial is for D-Day only – chuck those guys out. And Attley with Truman as well – they became leaders after D-Day.
2. Role of Stalin in history of the world and USSR is so big and complicated that it does not make any sense to discuss it here. I suggest author of article to write another one, on Stalin, taking as source of information not only “GULAG Archipelago”. As in continuation of discussed.
3. One who adulterates history is bound to it repetition. Only worse.
4. I am ready to make donation for this memorial fund. How I can do it?
5. Kristen – thank you!
Pure revisionist history. Stalin was critical in D-Day. Pick up a history book and read it. All this PC revisionist history is ridiculous. This history our children are learning now is so watered down, they are learning nothing. Let’s be honest with what happened in the past.
Trey,
Please tell us when the PC revisionist history began (like what year). And, please expand about Stalin was critical to D-Day.