Sunday’s column: Enforce, and fix, a bad restaurant smoking law
The sign on the door of The Coffee Pot restaurant on Brambleton Avenue. Only the small foyer of the place is nonsmoking; smoking is allowed in the bar, the pool room and at night in the large restaurant area.
Everyone reading this column should sit down before they go further.
Because something astounding happened the other day in this tobacco state.
Police in Falls Church cited nine smokers in restaurants. Gave them tickets that carry $25 fines. They cited some bar employees, too.
The police actually enforced the law, even though it has been on the books only nine months.
That’s more than they have done in the Roanoke Valley — or in other parts of Virginia — under the restaurant smoking ban since it took effect Dec. 1.
Gary Hagy, director of the Food and Environmental Services Division for the Virginia Department of Health, told me the tickets issued in Falls Church were the first anywhere in the state.
The law:
1) Bans indoor smoking in all Virginia restaurants;
2) Provides exceptions for restaurants with a walled off and separately ventilated smoking area;
3) Also requires that any restaurant with a smoking area have at least one entrance from the outside to its nonsmoking area.
Many restaurateurs spent significant sums to comply with the ban, and Hagy said that at least 93 percent of the state’s 24,000 restaurants are complying.
But that still leaves almost 1,700 that aren’t. And you don’t have to search long to find them.
One is W.R. Brews on Williamson Road Northeast. I went in there around lunchtime Tuesday.
It’s a one-room joint with a bar and tables and some half-wall dividers here and there.
On the bar and at nearly every table were large round ashtrays (I counted 22) and some patrons, of course, were smoking.
“Do you have a nonsmoking area?” I asked the bartender.
“We don’t.” She shrugged. “Not at the moment. It’s in the works.”
The ban is 9 months old and it’s in the works?
W.R. Brews owner Roger Lamm didn’t respond to a message I left for him at the restaurant on Wednesday.
A different kind of game is being played in Southwest Roanoke over at the Coffee Pot, one of my favorite local establishments (except for the smoke).
The exterior door opens to a small, 8-foot-long foyer. You walk through that and another door to get into the bar/restaurant/pool-table areas.
Owner Carroll Bell put a single small table in the foyer. That is the nonsmoking area.
Smoking is allowed in the pool room, the bar and (at night) in its adjacent large dining area.
“What about separate ventilation?” I asked Bell on Wednesday.
He pointed to a 3-inch-wide hole he’d drilled in the foyer’s wall next to the outside door.
“Come on,” I said. “That’s a dodge.”
“I didn’t dodge,” Bell said. “I just did the minimum required to be compliant with the law.”
He noted the law establishes no minimum size for a nonsmoking area.
W.R. Brews seems to be violating the letter of the law, while the Coffee Pot is certainly violating its spirit.
That’s unfair to all the restaurateurs who have jumped through hoops to adhere to both, but it’s not hard to understand why they’re getting away with it.
Police in Salem, Roanoke and Roanoke County haven’t issued a single smoking citation to a restaurant patron or employee since the law went into effect nine months ago.
Salem and Roanoke police said they’ve had no complaints. Roanoke County had a single complaint, in February, that was canceled before an officer could get to the restaurant in question.
Hagy, from the Virginia Department of Health, says its restaurant inspectors can’t issue citations. Only law enforcement officers can.
Under circumstances such as this, flouting of the law will continue. So will creative sidesteps.
The police should do something about the former. The General Assembly should do something about the latter.
But don’t hold your breath waiting for either.
Cough, cough.
September 5, 2010 - 6:00 AM
lots of laws are never enforced…AZ illegal immigration, seat belt usage, talking/texting on the phone while driving, etc, etc…
this is one of them…too much real work by the cops to be bothered nannying the public…
we let second/thrid time DUI offenders out to kill people, and you are worried about smokers…
oh well
In my entire lifetime, I cannot think of any other “issue” that is a better example of much ado about nothing. Regarding almost anything else one would care to throw out there, the more “normal American” response would be, “If you don’t like the smoke, don’t patronize the facility.” You know, let the “free market” work its miracles.
I’d be interested in reading your conclusions about employers who refuse to hire smokers. I’m betting it would be found in a folder called “That’s Different”.
If go out to eat, and the first restaurant I get to is too smoky, I simply turn around and go somewhere else. There’s no point in bothering overworked police departments with this sort of trivia.
First let me say I’m not against smoking regulations. I used to smoke about 15 years ago but quit the first time I started coughing during exercise. I, too, prefer to eat without smelling the smoke, though I typcally found that sitting in the “no smoking” section was sufficient.
However, I am a little surprised by something. Dan, are you saying you think the police should proactively go into private businesses that are open to the public for the sole and specific reason of checking to see if this law is being violated? You do realize that the restaurant owner has the right to tell the police they don’t want them to come in there unless they receive a complaint or are otherwise have reason to believe a crime is being committed, right? The owner of the Coffee Pot has every right in the world to tell the police not to come in there unless they are called.
But I digress. Are there other violations you think the police should routinely and randomly check for in private establishments? Maybe they should make random license checks at the bar area to make sure everyone there is old enough to consume alcohol? I’m sure I saw several people at Bull & Bones last weekend who were drinking, but didn’t appear to be 21. Or maybe the cops should be making random checks at Kroger to make sure the store isn’t selling expired milk in violation of federal law.
I know most of the anti-law enforcement types think the cops are just sitting around eating donuts or “harassing innocent” motorists who have done nothing more than speed and run red lights, but in reality (a place many in society seem to visit only rarely) the police simply don’t have time to go on fishing expeditions to all the area restaurants each day to see if someone is (gasp) smoking a cigarette. You know what though? I bet they’d come if you called them to make a complaint. Have you given that a try?
Ed, an attitude like that works GREAT in a system in which all restaurants are equal in the areas of food quality, menu, prices and other factors. But we all know it isn’t that way.
What you’re ignoring is, a restaurant is a licensed public accommodation. As a licensed public accommodation, it has to meet certain minimum health standards to protect its patrons. The owners of such establishments agree to such regulation when they decide they want to go into business.
Smoking…… trans fats…….. salt content…….
What next? Is the state going to force-feed me my veggies?
Let the market and private business owners decide. You don’t like a restaurant that allows smoking? Don’t go.
Dan, didja read the bit on the gubernatorial candidate in Nevada who wants to raise money by allowing speeding, up to 90mph, on designated roads? He figures it’ll rake in a billion bucks a year.
He needs to get out on Nevada’s roads more. Like several other western states, Nevada has a speed limit that is more ignored than obeyed. Shoot, back here in the pantywaist east, it is not uncommon to find drivers popping along at 80-85mph on the interstates. About the only time that’s hazardous to a driver’s license is when a holiday is in effect and police coverage is increased.
Chris, I don’t think the state is going to force feed you anything, but, like many people, I don’t care to inhale second hand smoke from people too stupid to quit. I smoked heavily for a long time, and I have the lungs to prove it, even though I quit nearly 22 years ago. IMNAAHO, with today’s evidence, which didn’t exist when I started, anyone who smokes is just plain stupid. To complain about not being allowed to contaminate a building where non-smokers eat is silly. And yes, it does contaminate the building, seeping through cracks too small to admit a drop of water. To a non-smoker, a smoker stinks and so does the residual smoke in carpets, drapes, upholstery and similar items.
If people are willing to eat the food at the Coffee Pot, the smoke represents relatively little risk.
“Let the market and private business owners decide. You don’t like a restaurant that allows smoking? Don’t go.”
This is about workers. And employers don’t get to willy-nilly create unsafer working environments for their employees.
Charlie,
How do you raise money by ALLOWING speeding? Do people pay extra for a special speeder’s plate?
Kristen, the NC-style BBQ at The Pot is by FAR the best in town. Nothing else even comes close!
Dan, have you tried the BBQ at Blues BBQ and the Fork? I think they both spank the Pot’s Q. The Bro’ritta at the Fork is especially good. They also smoke their meats in a smoker right in the front yard.
#9, Dan: Sorry. The concept according to this nutcase is to charge a minimum of $25 per use of specially selected roads, AFTER the cars are inspected, one assumes to make sure the brakes work. I’m not sure what they call these drive-through toll deals on turnpikes, but it’s a computer set so once selected and checked, the driver can whiz by at speed.
I can think of some places on some Interstate roads in WV I’d love to try that on, with a motorcycle, but I’ve already had all the broken bones my doctors will allow. I think the selected western roads would be nearly straight, which takes 90% out of the fun of 90mph, which really isn’t that fast these days.
You are a loyal patron Dan.
The one time I went into eat there – about 5 years ago – we went for lunch when a buffet was offered. The thing I recall best about it was the unrecognizable grey meat afloat in some liquid.
The food might be tasty. It just never struck me as a place that was overly concerned with cleanliness.
I read that speeding thing…basically, you buy some sort of transponder for your car – like an Ezpass thingy – and on the days you anticipate speeding, you pay $25 for 24 hours worth of protection from being pulled over. I lived out there for a brief time, and in all fairness there are long,long stretches of straight barren road. They’re offering indemnity up to 90 mph.
Anyone who thinks that enforcing the smoking laws is a matter of ‘nitpicking’ should be aware of other ‘nitpicking’ laws enforced in Virginia, such “all alcoholic beverages must be served in transparent containers”. I imagine it’s going to take a big class action or civil suit by someone with a smart lawyer to get these non-compliant restaurant owner’s attention, as long as only lip service is being paid to this law by the authorities. The public be damned.
BBQ soup, you mean. Nothing like that stuff would ever be served by any self respecting BBQ establishment in NC.
I normally agree with a lot of the articles/blogs you write. But I even as a non-smoker completely disagree with this and the ban in general. As long as cigarettes are legal they should be allowed to be enjoyed at any restaurant that so chooses to allow them. Some restaurants had already decided to go non-smoking before the ban and most had non-smoking areas. I think people that can’t stand smoke near them should head to ones with non-smoking areas or whole restaurants that banned it.
I am very happy the cops aren’t wasting time on this and I love how creative the Coffee Pot is by doing that. It should be the restaurants choice. Just the audacity of people to try to tell them how to run it and still go just to sit there and complain is pathetic. And for ones who say it’s about workers safety, I am sure they knew when they applied at the restaurants lobby if people smoked or not. And many jobs have airborne toxins/dusts/smoke they know what it’s about before they apply.
If they want a restaurant job that bad at a particular establishment that is still mostly smoking maybe they could wear a respirator and be happy by having the job they want and clean air. And also on that argument they can still have smoking in areas by that law so it can’t be to protect employees. It’s just a law inspired by the new American pastime… complaining.
Most people know about secondhand smoke, but many aren’t aware that there’s a 3rd element. This is the residual toxin and particles that are left behind after a cigarette has been extinguished. These particles are formed from more than 200 poisonous gases, many of which are cancer causing and get absorbed into your clothes, hair, furniture, carpet, car upholstery, toys- you name it. They remain long after a person has finished smoking.
Think about all the things someone touches. And children not only touch but put things in their mouth, and pets can absorb it the same way- especially through grooming. So even if you’re careful not to expose others to your secondhand smoke, they are still being exposed to the same harsh chemicals.
Apply this to restaurants. Even though no one may be smoking at the moment, all those toxins are on the chairs, condiments at the table, floor, etc… and they’re transferred to your skin, clothing, and shoes- which will transfer to your vehicle upholstery, child car seats, etc…
If you don’t smoke you’ll be able to smell this on your hair and clothes after being in a smokey place or near a smoker. You can also smell it on smokers when they’re near you- even if they aren’t smoking. These are the lingering toxins from third-hand smoke.
This is a guideline written by a pediatrician on the best way to protect children. Even though it’s directed to protect kids, it still should be applied towards pets and non-smokers too. “…the best way to protect your child is to prohibit smoking in the house and car. Ask family members to wear a jacket and hat when smoking outdoors that they can remove and hang in the carport or garage before coming back into the house.”
Scofflaws are hardly a new invention. The people who hated this ban were never likely to support it nor adhere to it. For the many who have done so, they make our choices easier. You are correct, the smoking ban scofflaws will not get my support regardless of how good their food or entertainment is. Free market indeed.
“Nothing else even comes close!”
You haven’t tried mine.
To clear the air (he-he) in a manner of speaking, there is no ban on smoking in restaurants in Virginia. There is a law which mandates that if a restaurant chooses to have a smoking area, then it must also have a non-smoking area. Perhaps some believe that a ban exists because many restaurants have voluntarily chosen to become totally non-smoking.
Have never been inside The Coffee Pot. Is there a restroom accessible in the eight foot long foyer described in the above article?
I think magpie is a bit OCD.
I do have a question: What should the police do if they find an illegal immigrant smoking in a non-smoking establishment?
Jp,
There is no restroom available in the 8-foot foyer.
Gary Hagy from the VDH told me the department at first interpreted the law to mean that nonsmokers would not have to walk through a smoking area to get to a restroom. After examining the language in the law, he told me, “We backed off that.”
“I think magpie is a bit OCD.”,/em>
I’d talk, Mr. 10%.
Really Mike? What other regulations are an intolerable infringement on the part of a public business to operate any way they want to?
Perhaps OSHA laws should be repealed…those workers should just be glad to have a job! And really, do we need to force places to let minorities in to eat and work? They should be able to decide for themselves! Boy, this sounds idiotic. Because it is!
The only place to get to decide for yourself on these matter is in your own home, where you can freely set your sofa on fire to enjoy the fumes. Once you open your doors to the public, you have to operate by the regulations in force in your state.
Living, talking proof that some people would fight a ban on cyanide in food if liberals supported it.
Are we as a society, going to insist the authorities enforce the law, or not? Is there some reason that they should not? I strongly recommend not patronizing the establishments that thumb their collective noses at this law, but also to make a point of calling police, and making a complaint, whenever you come across these violations. Complain. Complain loud and long, write your senators, congressmen and any other officials you deem worthy. Call the local chiefs of police, and ask why laws are being selectively enforced.
#21- Henry, you obviously have no clue what OCD stands for. Next time, look up the definition of a word before using it.
I gave that information, because there are many smokers who are trying to be careful around their children, or non-smoker family, friends, etc… They might not have been aware that they were exposing their pets to this either. Nowhere did I say that smoking should be outlawed or restricted. This was just given to let people know there is another factor to be aware of besides direct or second-hand smoke.
Dan, I hope we never get to a point where all restaurants are equal in, as you put it, “areas of food quality, menu, prices and other factors”. How boring would that be?
I’m not reading all of the other 2 dozen comments, so this may be redudant – JUST DON’T GO TO RESTAURANTS THAT ALLOW SMOKING.
Eventually, that is far better punishment than the $25, or whatever it is, fine they get hit with, or don’t get hit with.
If the smokers can keep them going, fine, let them, but if they can’t, let them rot in bankruptcy.
It is pretty simple. This is a perfect example of capitalism working, and not depending on government intervention. It does take some time, though.
I’d think this is a perfect situation for the Obama-disciples to take note of. You can’t legislate and enforce EVERYTHING. Let the damn market do the work. It might take some time, but it will work.
And, if a place can survive only on smoker business, maybe there is a demand for it.
I don’t smoke, can’t stand it – and won’t go to such places. I’ve walked out of a couple that were more smoker friendly than others since the law passed.
At the same time, my family (Grandfather, primarily) made plenty of money growing and selling tobacco for years for people to kill themselves with. One day, I figure that’ll be mine, but he’ll be ’round for a while so I don’t think much about it, since he chose not to smoke the crap to begin with to shorten his life.
People make choices. Choose not to go to the places that don’t enforce the law. Choose not to whine about it.
First of all, from my experiences most smokers are very negligent about smoking. Smokers flick cigarettes out of thier car windows everyday. They puff away at parks and on the sidewalks. Sure it is a free country whatever, but I think the ban on smoking in restaurants is good. I wish Virginia would ban it completely in public. I say this for one important reason: Some people (including myself) are highly allergic to cigarette smoke. If you can’t sit for a couple of hours in a restaurant without smoking then maybe you need to see a doctor. As always, I request non-smoking seating in restaurants; however they will seat you right beside a bar full of smokers. Oh and as far as walking outside: At my workplace you are supposed to smoke a minimum of 25′ away from an entrance. All of our smokers gather right in front of the door. Again, if you are as allergic as I am, this can be hard on those that already need the clean air. No sympathy for smokers from me. They are mostly rude about it and they litter the streets.
This issue always pisses me off. Telling a business they have to have a non-smoking area with separate ventilation is like telling an Indian restaurant they have to have a totally separate American menu in case a non-Indian food eater comes in.
I quit 17 years ago. That being said, you can’t legally discriminate against any other group of people like you can a smoker. You are exposed to more carcinogens standing on a busy street corner than you are in a room full of smoke.
#31 Elliot, I didn’t know Indian food could ruin your health and finally kill you. Are you sure of that? That would be the rationale for banning it, as it is the rationale for banning smoking in restaurants.
jh, I agree, though I don’t think I’m as highly allergic as you. Sometimes when I drop my wife of at a store and wait for her to come out, with my car windows open, someone in a nearby car will be puffing away, polluting the air in my car as well as their own. It is annoying, and is sometimes bad enough to force me to shut myself in.
This is a free country, but someone else’s freedom to do whatever they please, including swing a fist, stops when it gets too close to me…or anyone else. Same with smoking. I don’t care a whole lot what people do to themselves, but I do care when their destructive behavior comes over into my space. It’s also just lovely to see Mom and Dad in the car, with the tots spread around the back seat, with both parents having cigarettes stuck in their faces, smoking away.
Dan–sheest, you need an edit button or something (or I do!). That’s “when I drop my wife off” not “of”.
Really Elliot. Restaurants are there for people to eat and drink. Cigarettes not only have nothing to do with the experience, they actually make it less enjoyable.
Maybe some people enjoy smoking with a meal. Maybe some people enjoy eating in the nude. So stay home.
Elliot,
Please tell us how you feel about the “911 mosque”
19.“Nothing else even comes close!”
**************************************************************************
Or Mine!
BTW Dan — when talking about NC Barbecue, you need to distinguish between Easter NC vs. Western NC. Totally different.
DaveH,
As in vinegar or tomato.
A psychiatrist will tell you that when it comes to your own happiness and well being, to remove the word “should” from your vocabulary. When you say that someone “should” or everyone “should” or “should not” do or not do something, you have given the responsibility for your happiness and well-being to someone else. If you stop worrying about what someone else “should” or “should not” do. Just adjust your plans accordingly, you’d be much more satisfied with your life, as in just go elsewhere if you don’t like the food, or the smoke, or the view, or whatever. But sadly, that isn’t enough for some people. What REALLY makes them happy is trying to make others bend to their will. These are the same people, who as children, ran to the teacher to tattle on everyone else and then smiled smugly as punishment was administered. Snitch, rat, tattletale, busybody…pick your own handle. You weren’t popular then, and you aren’t now. Live and let live. There are enough bars and restaurants for everyone. Patronize the ones you like (for whatever reason), and let others patronize the ones they like.
Charlie (#33)
Before the law was passed you had the right to avoid restaurants that allowed smoking. Just like you have the right to avoid Indian restaurants if you don’t like their food. You also have the right to avoid drinking drain cleaner even though they sell it in stores. The Government doesn’t have to get involved in every little thing to stop people from making poor choices. If you don’t like smoking and you make plans to eat at a smoke filled restaurant you need to have your head examined.
Dan (#36)
I’m guessing you think I’m a crazy right wing radical…you’d be mostly correct about that. The mosque debate is pretty sad though. They’ve got the right to build wherever the heck they want in America (given the zoning laws fit). I may not like the placement but that doesn’t matter.
The real question is…Should a mosque be able to light incense if it’s open to the public?
Bam. Hit the nail on the head, Hugh!
Smoking is scary.
Dawn #4,
You are wrong.
You: “You do realize that the restaurant owner has the right to tell the police they don’t want them to come in there unless they receive a complaint or are otherwise have reason to believe a crime is being committed, right? The owner of the Coffee Pot has every right in the world to tell the police not to come in there unless they are called.”
A restaurant is a place of public accommodation. It is not private property exactly and they do not get to tell the police to leave or not enter; anymore than they get to tell the city/county health inspector to leave or not enter. Now, were it your home you could tell the police they needed a complaint to enter or a warrant, but not at a store, restaurant, etc.
I have seen police enter a bar and check ID’s. It was a college town and they were doing a sweep of ‘bar street’ looking for underage drinkers. In this particular town they do this every year at least once to force the owners to have reasonable precautions against underage drinking in place against their own monetary interests.
I agree that most law enforcement agencies, and certainly most in this down turned economy where positions are not getting filled, budgets are getting cut and police are getting laid off (like at my relatively small agency where 4 positions have gone unfilled for almost a year now or my wife’s where not only are positions going unfilled but for the first time in decades there almost certainly will be layoffs by the end of the year.) do not have the man power to add a lot of extra duties like restaurant police. On the other hand, it is a duty to enforce laws, even ones we think need fixed or tweaked or erased.
Calling to complain is a good idea if this is something that you care strongly about. If there are more important things to do a competent supervisor will pend this call to handle the ones which more imminently effect public safety (like recently we have had a rash of mattresses in the roadway, weird). If the police are not enforcing a law and it is something you care about, then … encourage them to enforce it by making them aware it is a concern.
#42 Indeed it is. And stupid.
From a former smoker.