Occupy Roanoke plans coat giveaway in Elmwood Park
Saturday in Elmwood Park | Shot by Zach
Note from occupier John Houlihan:
On Dec. 10th Occupy Roanoke will be passing out coats, hats, gloves, etc. which they are currently collecting. They’ll be donating them to any of the homeless folks who come through the park (which many do), in addition to the soup they serve each week.
If, at the end of the day, there are more coats and whatnot left over, they’ll be donating them to various groups such as the Rescue Mission and Salvation Army.
The idea was to, first, get them directly to the people who need them the most.
There’s more pix after the jump. . .
Here’s a fitting theme song for Occupy.
Shot by Dan Sunday
Shot by Dan Sunday
November 28, 2011 - 8:00 AM
These leftwing OWS morons who claim to ‘want their country back’ should look at who the hell has dominated power for the past six years, then realize it’s the gd socialists THEY elected.
I sort of have to laugh at the propping up a ‘We are the 99%’ sign using the police access panel of a traffic signal controller cabinet…
Can we take coats somewhere? We’ve got way too much outerwear and I’m happy to donate some to them, I just don’t see the info.
Suzie,
For the record, the Occupy movement is comprised of members from all across the political spectrum, from conservative to liberal and all things between.
The same goes for where to place blame… not on the politicians from the last six years, but for the last twenty or more. I agree that the Democrats have had their hands in shaping the charges that damaged the economy; however, the Republicans are just as much to blame. Socialism isn’t the problem… career politicians are.
Just saying.
More of the same 2 year old name calling from SUZ.
A bitter “old” woman already?
I feel sorry for the people in her life.
I think it’s great, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, etc. I’m just not sure what they’re protesting and what they’re asking for. Do the occupiers have a list of demands? What does it mean to want your country back? I’ve heard that from the left and the right, and it’s no more than a bumper sticker. And collecting coats is nice, but churches and schools and nonprofits throughout the Roanoke Valley do that every year. Why are they reinventing the wheel?
For the occupiers in Roanoke: what’s your agenda? What’s your goal?
Let the Rescue Mission distribute the clothes to the homeless. We need to clear these pathetic scumbags from our park. They have the right to free speech. Who gave them the right to “occupy”our community’s park?
If there is a “story” here, it is the universal disgust that our community has displayed toward the losers who are ignoring the needs of their families and making fools out of themselves.
@3: Kristen, you could bring them down to Elmwood Park this coming Saturday. Most of the Occupy Roanoke members will be bringing their respective collections of coats with them… I’d invite anyone else wanting to donate do the same.
We won’t bite, I promise. This is a charitable drive, not a political statement, so everyone should feel free to donate without feeling they are walking into a debate or argument. I think we can all be happy in sharing a desire to help those less fortunate than ourselves.
Although these pictures show a quiet working-group time at a recent Occupation, we usually have many, many more folks attending, especially our General Assemblies. The problems we face as a nation are many, and to make a difference we need not only an aware, educated, and attentive electorate, but the multiple perspectives and ideas of engaged citizens. If you’re more comfortable sitting at home, taking pot shots at people trying to make a difference, stay at home. If you are interested in seeing if there is a way to make your voice heard, or some action/idea you might want to propose or support, you should come by one of our many, many events.
What a splendid idea! Who in their right mind could oppose this sort of generosity and charity?
email received, good info
Who did he threaten?
From now thru November 2012 this should be required weekly or at least monthly,
reading – BY ALL WHO VOTE!!!
Did you notice who Obama threatened when he wasn’t getting his way on raising the debt ceiling?
He threatened to not pay: Social Security Retirees, Military Retirees, Social Security disability and Federal Retirees.
NOW ……….. REALLY LET THIS SINK IN !
He did not threaten to stop payments to illegal aliens
He did not threaten to take frivolous benefits such as Internet access away from violent inmates
He did not offer to fire some of the thousands of unnecessary federal employees that he hired
He did not offer to cut down on his or his wife’s frivolous gallivanting around the world
He did not threaten to not pay the senators and representatives or any of their staff
He did not threaten to take benefits away from welfare recipients
He did not threaten the food stamp programs
He did not threaten to not pay foreign aid
He did not threaten to cut back on anything that involves his base voters
The list could go on and on. He is in full political re-election mode !
WHY are WE allowing this person to destroy THIS wonderful country with his selfishness and his lies?
His type of change is KILLING our country. He needs to be STOPPED and only OUR votes can stop him.
Do not forget about his tactics when it’s election time. Vote Obama OUT of the Presidency in 2012.
2012 – THE END OF AN ERROR!
Democracy….. is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty …… is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. — Benjamin Franklin
AMERICA…..
HOME OF THE FREE
BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE
PRAY FOR OUR TROOPS
ELECTION 2012 IS COMING!!!
A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves ! I’M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!! Let’s Take a Stand!!!
Obama: Gone!
Borders : Closed!
Language : English only
Culture : Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Ten Commandments!
Drug Free : Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!
For the record, the Occupy movement is comprised of members from all across the political spectrum, from conservative to liberal and all things between.
No conservatives rubbed shoulders with these maggots. They were too busy working and contributing to society.
The aim of OWS as well as Occupy Roanoke is to educate Americans about information that is propelling us to seek reform of the system we currently have in place, ie corporate person-hood, egregious abuse of power by corporations which can be amply illustrated with a reading of the most recent GAO audit of the Federal Reserve as well as a look at the finances of our elected representatives and the systemic inequities of the political process of representation. We are also poised at the brink of losing the freedoms that we cherish, because of the “battleground” because of congressional actions today or tomorrow -If enacted, sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA would:
1 Explicitly authorize the federal government to indefinitely imprison without charge or trial American citizens and others picked up inside and outside the United States;
2 Mandate military detention of some civilians who would otherwise be outside of military control, including civilians picked up within the United States itself; and
3 Transfer to the Department of Defense core prosecutorial, investigative, law enforcement, penal, and custodial authority and responsibility now held by the Department of Justice.
What? You mean those unwashed, fornicating, raping, murdering pillaging occupy protestors are actually doing something positive to help the homeless and improve their community? IMAGINE THAT! According to the fringe nut defenders of the 1%, they should all be at home taking a bath and setting up the shrines that they will kneel before every day to thank all the millionaires for trickling down on them from time to time.Go figure!
Kristen, RAM is collecting coats of all sizes.
Apologies – The afore mentioned “battleground” is considered to be inside the US as well.
I’ll bring a few items down. Thanks to whoever is organizing this.
#10 Well, saintbridge, look at comment #7 by terps … Oh, wait, you said, “in their right mind.”
#7 Nothing the folks in Roanoke are doing is keeping you from using your “community park,” terps. So you come down and frolic in Elmwood a lot?
#11 I guess every blog needs a village idiot to pass along maniacal and uninformed spam emails.
The people railing against the OWS movement just don’t get it…. They are on YOUR side. YOU are the 99%. It is nothing less than shocking to me that most of those who oppose this movement are the very ones who stand to most benefit from their agenda.
I have to hand it to the GOP machine…. they certainly are very good at brain-washing.
@7: The right to use Elmwood park covers everyone, not just Occupy. We could point out the First Amendment’s “freedom to assemble” or the simple fact that it’s a public park.
@6: Those are short questions with lengthy answers. I’d invite you to take a look at the Occupy Roanoke Facebook group or the website, read through and then directly ask people there. I’d rather not post an exceptionally long comment here, as it would feel disrespectful to those trying to read quickly through the collected posts.
No conservatives rubbed shoulders with these maggots. They were too busy working and contributing to society.
You seem to be misinformed. I’d suggest actually reading some of the articles on the *conservative* networks… they are, indeed, out there.
Or, perhaps, I could point you in the direction of Occupy Marines (who have also adopted the other branches)? I’ve had some intense discussions with quite a few conservative-minded members there.
Do a little research before you jump to conclusions based on an ideological mentality.
Pammalala@9:52 has just passed on one of those fringe nut right wing emails that are being passed around by obnoxious unthinking ignorant people who know no facts and just automatically forward anything critical of Obama. This one comes around at least once a week and is one of the two or three biggest pieces of trash on the internet. It goes along with the one that says they are secretly going to start charging a 1% tax on every bank transaction begiinning in January 2012 and the one that says every time you sell your house you will be required to pay a 3% tax on the entire price of your home. Those come at least twice a month. The stupidity of the people who continue to pass them on speaks for itself. Let them have at it. They are just exposing themselves for the racist fools that they are.
“I’d rather not post an exceptionally long comment here, as it would feel disrespectful to those trying to read quickly through the collected posts.”
This is a public forum. This is where the questions are being asked.
GDAD
The only reason I would bring my children to that park would be to teach them what it means to be a LOSER. Would you be proud if your child was one of those foul,smelly vagrants? How are their families and loved ones being helped by them sitting on their fat butts for weeks without any effort to work.
Protesting has it’s place, but this is not protesting. This is an attempt to cloak laziness with a veneer of righteousness.
Its a fairly deep swamp Dave…
but its started to drain.
Oh, the familiarity of hate, lies and abuse. Winning votes from coast to coast no doubt pammala. Small minds really do think alike and conservatives prove it daily.
At least plagiarizing makes you readable. Your concern for Social Security and the elderly is laughable.
Dave, haven’t read it, but would like to suggest that you add to your “blocked” list anybody who can’t even spell her own name.
What 1500 United States Occupy groups want is this: SEPARATION OF BUSINESS AND STATE. (Like we separated church and state.)
Do you realize some citizens are earning 200,000 times more money than their honest neighbors? Meanwhile, for 50,0000,000 Americans, a serious health issue is treated with high speed hospice.
It’s painful to listen to some of you who have not bothered to learn anything about us. Here’s website link for those readers with enough depth to actually investigate us a little bit before pronouncing judgment: http://www.facebook.com/groups/Occupyroanokeva
MattF, don’t worry ya’ll don’t scare me.
“He did not threaten to stop payments to illegal aliens.”
What “payments to illegal aliens”? They work for Tyson, and Obama can hardly control that. Stupid RWnutball inanity.
The attitude of terps and a few others just illustrates the weird genius of the right…they’ve managed to convince a huge chunk of the 99% to vote and advocate against their own interests. Newsflash, terps….anyone’s free to stand there if they wish – even you, if you have some alternative message to convey. Of course it’s always easier to sit on your butt at a keyboard and call people acutally doing something otherwise “pathetic scumbags”.
The people railing against the OWS movement just don’t get it…. They are on YOUR side. YOU are the 99%. It is nothing less than shocking to me that most of those who oppose this movement are the very ones who stand to most benefit from their agenda.
I have to hand it to the GOP machine…. they certainly are very good at brain-washing.
As a memeber of the 1% and more like the .01%, I would ask these OWS maggots and their few supporters like Lynda if they think the country would be better off if we all just closed our businesses and retired.
If my husband and I left tomorrow, several hundred people would lose their jobs, and since our business is pretty much unique in the valley, our workload wouldn’t just fall to other local companies. Our employees wouldn’t be able to find similar work here. That would mean several million dollars a year in lost revenue for the valley. Is that the goal of the OWS nuts?
Are we really working against your interests, Lynda? How does that not hurt you if the 1% leave? Stop being an idiot.
@25: Yes, it’s a public forum, but when people are providing the links to further information, it makes little sense to rewrite or cut/paste into this forum.
@26: I’m an Occupier. I bathe every day, work, clean house, take care of my kids, cook… it’s called time management, not laziness.
Just think of it, people. If the OWS kooks got their way, corporations would take a hit, the stock market would go down, Millions of retirees and everyday folks would see their incomes and savings vanish. Still waiting for the morons to tell anybody how their objective would help this country.
Oh, wait. Anti-capitalists and anarchists’ goal is to bring this country down. I guess the lefty nuts who support them have the same goal. So why even engage them?
Dave, the plaintive tone in response to the trolls and your belittling of posters who do not have “enough depth” to friend your group on facebook is really not doing much for your cause.
Separation of business and state is a laudable goal, although recent Supreme Court decisions would say otherwise. Is that the goal of all occupy groups, or just the Roanoke group? How do you propose it be reached?
To those who have called us a bunch of sleazy, unwashed, lazy losers, I forgive you. I will continue to Occupy for you to continue to have the right to your opinion. But I urge you to educate yourselves a little. The sky really IS falling, and we could use your help to get things right again.
Please drop off your gently used winter clothing at the corner of Elm and Williamson between 10am and 6pm This Saturday. And thanks in advance for caring. Peace
#26 terps, I’m guessing you haven’t the slightest idea who’s among the OWS folks down at Elmwood, do you? You’re just spouting nonsense based on right-wing stereotypes, aren’t you?
Amen on that #36 and my thanks goes to the guy giving away all that free food and that potato soup with curry was great.
Here is hoping next time we get more folks singing, it sure helps.
Roy Forbes
Let’s see. Now you claim that you are littering our park so that I can “continue to have the right to my opinion.” Right? Well it seems that your reasons change every day. The only constant is that no WORK is being done by those who are laying around.
Roy, I hate to burst your bubble. But free speech in America is safe without you. I suggest you get back to providing for your loved ones and rest assured that I can protect my own free speech rights.
I actually think that the OWS movement truly needs to shift into a new direction. I think that the continual camping of locations is, unfortunately, bringing some bad press and misconceptions. Furthermore, I think the usefulness of camping has now passed.
I think everyone should go home and continue to build the awareness locally and online. I think the OWS needs to clarify a few (as in 3 or 4) issues that it truly can impact and tackle. Focus on those and work on them.
Matt F
Looks like you have kids. Great. Every minute you spend on your butt over at Elmwood Park is time you are not spending with them. And that, my friend, is a big mistake. I am sure those kids need you and please get your priorities straight real soon.
I saw this excellent question yesterday on Facebook, “What sort of person thinks there is nothing wrong with asking the folks tasked with teaching our children to take a 20% paycut on a $50K salary but thinks it is a terrible idea to ask millionaires to pay an additional 3% more in taxes?”
Guess I got the answer.
Thank you, Roy, Audette, and Matt F for taking your time and energy to stand up and fight for ALL of us! I, for one, appreciate what you are doing!
I think terps is scared of Occupy.
Suzie,
It’s not about removing or getting rid of the corporations. It’s about limiting their power in the political realm. Special privileges, waiting job offers and other assorted benefits given to politicians (on both sides of the spectrum) allow for a more direct and greater control over our Congresspersons than the majority of the population has.
I’m sure you would like to see less involvement in politics by liberal-owned corporations. That is part of what makes Occupy bring in members from all sorts of ideological perspectives.
Mind you, I’m not going to lie and say there aren’t an assortment of other groups that have attached themselves to Occupy to try to gain a greater base of support for their own causes, some good, some not; however, one of the constant messages is getting the corporate money out of politics.
Some people ask for solutions. That’s a difficult one to answer, as there are differing opinions. My personal view is that all campaign funds for any candidate should come from a central pool, giving every one of them equal funds and eliminating the potential for the influence of special interests.
For the record, I have supported candidates from both of the main two parties. I try to educate myself on the issues and ignore the slanted commercials and propaganda from all candidates and I vote based on who I feel would best serve my personal beliefs and be more willing to compromise with their opposition to provide better solutions. If a central, shared pool of campaign funding helps eliminate all the pointless mudslinging and forces politicians to focus on their actual stances, I believe it would be better for the voting populace as a whole.
Terps, in your comment to Matt about spending more time with his kids, he brings his kids with him. I know. I’m Matt’s father, and every time we are there, we have 3 generations Occupying. Call us whatever you like, we’re not going anywhere. Oh, and by the way, most of us have jobs and kids. Many of us are doing this for our kids, so that they might have a better future.
@41: I take my kids down with me. I play with them while down there, let them play with some of the other children and, when needed, do my best to explain what it is we’re doing.
Mind you, I don’t expect them to grow up with my beliefs and ideals. I’d prefer them to make their own decisions when they reach an age where they really begin to question everything; however, I believe that showing them the process and getting them accustomed to the basics of how our rights work is a good thing to do at a younger age. My actions let them know that no matter what they choose to believe or follow when they’re older, I’ll respectfully disagree with them, but acknowledge their rights to do so.
However, I do appreciate your concern for the well-being of my children and the amount of time that I spend with them (which is pretty much all of the time during which they are not at school, as my work hours are during their school hours).
As a side note to your response to Roy. We don’t litter. We bring our own waste receptacles and recycling containers… hell, we even rent portable toilets. I don’t know where your information for Occupy Roanoke comes from, but it is highly inaccurate.
Lynda K, thank you for your support. It’s good to be appreciated.
44.”I think terps is scared of Occupy”
and I think that “Occupy” is scared of work.
“
37.#26 terps, I’m guessing you haven’t the slightest idea who’s among the OWS folks down at Elmwood, do you? You’re just spouting nonsense based on right-wing stereotypes, aren’t you?
GDAD
Nope. Been there and have seen the poor, confused souls. If they only knew what great opportunity this country would offer them if they just applied themselves and WORKED. We have moved from self reliance to self pity with this movement….and self pity will never be result anything resembling an achievment.
If terps had been around during the revolution, it’s clear he would have sided with the Tories. His mantra would have been, “Shut up and work!”
oops Self pity will never result in anything resembling an achievment.
44, please read 46 and 47. Try to stay on the subject in an informed way.
Sorry, meant “49″
Folks, if you think you are going to change the minds of conservatives in here with reason, patience, the truth and decency, you truly have no idea what you are up against. I wish you luck but there are more conservatives like the ones who post here living in the Roanoke area than anyone wants to admit. Which is another way of saying there are times when being in the minority is a true and real blessing.
If terps had been around during the revolution, it’s clear he would have sided with the Tories.
Nope. Tories were for the big-government status-quo. Tea Party is equivalent to the limited-government framers.
terps… I can only hope that you never have to go through painful surgery and rehab that doesn’t help you regain your ability to function normally, or that you never have to live with a traumatic brain injury or become the victim of addiction or mental illness. These are all real reasons why people drop out of society. The majority are not lazy or without conviction. They simply cannot do what you expect a “normal” functioning person to do.
Believe it or not, there are people who live among us who are barely able to survive…. but you wouldn’t know that, terps, because the only thing you see are a bunch of lazy slobs who refuse to work so they can continue to nurse from the government teat.
There, but for the grace of God, go you….
Yes and if the Foxheads had been “reporting” during the civil rights movement, the headlines would have been “Negroes attack police, fire hoses and attack dogs while demanding special rights”
The only people we pity are the ones who refuse to see that they have been used.
So now OWS is like the American Revolution? I have to laugh. Remember that was a revolution by the people who were PAYING taxes. This is a revolution about trying to get OTHER people to pay taxes so that the half who don’t pay taxes can get more benefits. George Washington would be rolling in his grave with that analogy.
The real revolution in America is being conducted by those in America who pay every nickel that they earn in taxes for work they do for the first 5 months of the year. And OWS wants MORE so they can continue to wallow in their self pity. Don’t forget, socialism always fails when we eventually run out of other people’s money.
And Dan. Who is trying to get OWS to “shut up.” Not I. I just want them to get their trash out of the park so we don’t have to live in their filth.
Have a demonstration every week if you want. Just take a page out of the Tea Party book and clean up your mess when your done.
Terps obviously thinks the homeless folks who have been inhabiting Elmwood Park for ages are the primary element of the OCCUPY protest groups.
Maybe he should really get out more and experience the real world. I know some of the Roanoke OWS guys who happen to be prominent in the business
world and the construction industry. He is buying into the picture being painted of OWS groups in other cities by Fox News and right wing media outlets controlled by the Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch. His claim to have “been there among them” just doesn’t wash.
Actually, terps, when you add up all the taxes, the poor pay a higher percentage than the rich. That’s one of the things occupiers are upset about.
Concering @61: Dan is quite correct. Between tax incentives for corporations and assorted tax breaks at higher income levels, the lower and middle income earners pay a higher overall percentage.
Let’s remember, taxes aren’t just the income tax. We have sales taxes, annual registration taxes, property taxes, the Social Security and Medicare taxes, et al. It all adds up to a hefty percentage for those who live paycheck to paycheck.
And, terps, you keep mentioning litter and trash. I’d suggest reading my post above… we take care of all of our waste at our own time and expense. Perhaps you have some legitimate concerns and issues with Occupy. The waste of the local movement, however, should not be one of them since there isn’t any.
I was over at Elmwood Park Sunday. I didn’t see any litter and trash.
#61 I thin k you’re right, dave. terps is so busy mindlessly absorbing right-wing nonsense without questioning it that he now believes that the homeless around the library are part of OWS. Jeez.
#63 & 64 So terps is either ignorant about what’s really going on with the local OWS folks or he’s deliberately lying. One or the other. Which is it, terps?
I join Lynda K in thanking the Occupiers for standing up for all of us. Our nation was made great not by an upward transfer of wealth but by the creation of opportunity for people from many walks of life.
Dan
Just look at the picture you posted above. They have crap laying all around the monument. Thats ok for one day. But for weeks at a time? What right do they have to “occupy” this monument as if it were their own? There is a sense of entitlement with this group that is nauseating. Hating the “1%” and looking for handouts must be a really depressing way to live.
Terps, if you’ve seen litter and trash, you’ve been in the wrong location. And now I see that I have exhausted my supply of troll food for the day. How unfortunate.
Yo, terps, don’t you have some Carilion bashing to do?
As a matter of fact we had a few garbage cans and I too did not see any garbage to speak of.
Here is a story a friend of mine sent on this very subject:
http://www.truth-out.org/welcome-home-building-inclusive-movement-99-percent/1321627883
I have been down at Elmwood every weekend myself, and I have never seen any litter. The park is patrolled and left cleaner than found. I am guessing the nay-sayers on here are the same ones that drive by and yell profanities and give us the middle finger…all the while there are children, veterans, and elderly present. Since becoming involved in Occupy Roanoke my eyes have been opened to who the vile ones are, and they aren’t the ones that are gathering in Elmwood each weekend.
Matt F
Please Please Please tell me what the tax breaks are for “high earners”. You must know more than my accountant. According to him, there are several tax breaks that I would get if I earned less, but none for earning more.
Hey Matt…try working until May one year and give ALL of that money to the federal government. Just do it once. You may gain perspective about the crushing burden of federal taxation and perhaps you may take a second look at self reliance and ditch self pity.
“As a memeber of the 1% and more like the .01%….”
BAH!HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You and I both, ‘sweetcheeks’, you and I both….
Awwww…don’t blame terps…he’s just regurgitating what the RW spammails have told him to say. I doubt he’s been within 100 ft of the Noke Occupy people.
I seriously doubt that there are more than 1 or 2 people in the top 1% of this country within 75 miles of Roanoke. The main joy of Roanoke is that you can have a perfectly great life without making a ton of money.Meanwhile, places like DC and NYC are crammed with people making tons of money, without having much quality of life. Nonetheless, they’re the sort making up the 1%. It sure as heck isn’t Ashley Plantation.
Kristen@76
Yeah. My son was home for the holiday. He started work at a very good salary for a well known university physics lab in Columbia MD. He makes a good deal more money than I do right now, but it’s quickly dawning on him that the Baltimore/Washington beltway costs way more than the ROV.
I’m a beltway expatriate myself and have no desire to live in that environment.
Dan, thanks so much for stopping by. We appreciate someone in the media giving us this opportunity to publicize this event. You stuck your neck out for us, and that means a lot.
The only one with a world class (top 1%) net worth in this area is the deserving and concientious Randall Kirk. I say world class because that is the standard that conservative corporatists use in their insistence on a race to the bottom with places like China.
But in the U.S., their policies are enabled by the political support of lower, middle and upper middle class people, largely Caucasian, who have been cobbled into a bloc by a cynical merging of economic and cultural issues. Many folks with sincere religious beliefs, and some with regressive cultural prejudices, have had their belief systems exploited to gain their support for those whose main agenda works against these people’s economic self-interest.
Uhh, Kristen if you make around $340,000 annually as a single filer you are in the top 1%. Maybe they should be protesting the top .1%. Look it up…
That was in by 2009 standards – I have seen Around $500,000 for 2011. Its still not what most people think. Again they should be protesting the .1%
As a reminder, please drop off your gently used winter clothing at the corner of Elm and Williamson in Elmwood Park between 10am and 6pm This Saturday, Dec. 3rd. Help our less fortunate stay warm this winter.And thanks in advance for caring. Peace.
You DO remember the original subject of this post, don’t you?
I seriously doubt that there are more than 1 or 2 people in the top 1% of this country within 75 miles of Roanoke.
OK, this is where ignorance of the nine-to-fivers kicks in. The 1% threshold is achieved at approximately $334,000 a year. Kristen thinks only 1 or 2 people out of a half million earn that. There are probably four or five on our street who pull in that amount.
How much does she think the head of the big local business earn? How about Advance Auto? Double Envelope? Western Sizzlin’? Surgeons can earn that amount. Frank Beamer earns five times that. A bunch of people you’ve never heard of earn that amount. But I guess if you’re pulling down 20 grand like Kristen, a one-percenter might as well be Bill Gates.
“Suzie says:
These leftwing OWS morons who claim to ‘want their country back’ should look at who the hell has dominated power for the past six years, then realize it’s the gd socialists THEY elected.”
Question: What are ‘gd socialists’? What does ‘gd’ stand for in this post?
if you work 5 months just to pat your taxes you need to be at elmwood sat.morning.you are not rich,you are successful.the jobs that successful people create are needed.the government and their owners do not want you to be rich,successful people pay the most taxes and i am embarrassed to have to explain this to you.our country is in the toilet and some of us are trying to do something about it.the lazy people think they can vote for a different corporate owned liar and everything will be ok,it wont.the people who keep saying,dirty,lazy,homeless,jobless are idiots or liars.i proudly stand with business owners,cops,teachers,lawyers,students,veterans,white,black,democrat,republican and all other types of human beings with one common goal of making this world a better place.if you cannot agree with that i submit that you are the lazy,ignorant one.
I would reckon that ex-Carilion CEO Ed Murphy is in the top 1 percent in income — but he vamoosed. New Carilion CEO Nancy Agee, because of the way they had to count her deferred pay this year, probably falls in the category, too, even though she makes a lot less than Murphy did.
Make sure you click on the “theme song” link in the original post, folks. And pass it around. It’s gaining momentum, and it’s gonna go really big.
Here’s the link.
I think Dan’s admitting Kristen messed up. Not often do you see one liberal discredit another, no matter how nutty the claim is.
Great song Dan!
#84 “Question: What are ‘gd socialists’? What does ‘gd’ stand for in this post?”
Another obscenity by a right winger.
BTW, OWSers, those folks driving by and yelling obscenities at you must be some of the non-carrying right wingers. I have it on good authority that folks who carry guns are ALWAYS polite.
Pass it on, dave.
I have heard from reliable sources that a lot of work went into that little number.
Dan
Just sent it out to all the people on the Roanoke County dems yahoo group.
To all who have waded this far into the comments, I applaud you. Occupy Roanoke is this areas’ little experiment in direct consensual democracy. No one of us has all the answers, but the lot of us together can do more, and with greater wisdom, than the lot of us separately. If it is dominated by any particular type, it is the type that shows up and keeps on showing up. As for work, we realize that so much has gone wrong in this country (and beyond) that we have our work cut out for us, and it is truly immense. A substantial portion of what is wrong can be traced to the influence of money upon our representatives, who are demonstrably impotent in cleaning up campaign finance by themselves. This system needs our help to get all private and corporate money out of campaigning, and that task will ‘occupy’ legislators for a decade before it could be thought of as finished. Nearly all of the remaining work that needs doing needs representatives responsive to the needs of the populace, instead of the greatest contributors and false ‘persons’. As such, the direction taken by the populace will not be determined by any particular interest group, but by ‘we the people’, which is what our warriors died to ensure.
Meanwhile, we will be re-distributing coats on Saturday.
So, this is the first time I took a look at the comments here today. I’m not going to attempt to answer all of these posts individually. Instead, I will answer them as a collective, in as brief a fashion as I can.
First, I am a part of Occupy Roanoke. Go ahead and throw your rotten fruit now. Second, I suppose I should provide some other facts about myself. I work a forty hour a week job. I’d work more, except my employer doesn’t allow overtime, and finding a second job in this economy is quite difficult, however, I am trying, and will continue to do so. The reason I look for more work is because I am what this country currently calls the “Underemployed.” What this means is, sure, you work, you just don’t make enough money to support yourself. I don’t look for handouts. I don’t look for help. I don’t receive welfare and have not applied for it. I struggle, and that’s my own fault for NOT taking a handout. I mention this simply to clear up any misconceptions. We’re not looking for handouts. I hope this also clears up the “Get a job” or “Do some work” misconceptions. I am working. All through my time as a part of Occupy Roanoke I’ve been working. I still work.
Also, the dirty smelly vagrant comments were rather comical. Unlike OWS, or Oakland, or Detroit, Occupy Roanoke hasn’t actually set up camp in the park, which means we’re all doing this while living in our respective homes, and taking showers, and being clean. Not dirty, not smelly, and not vagrants.
Someone mentioned having “crap all around the monument” and went on to say it was for “weeks at a time” This shows me that the local population is rather ignorant of what is actually going on in that park. We come out for a few hours each weekend, have a rally, bring our signs, talk to people, and then pack up and go home. During the week a few of us come down during rush hour, bring our signs with us, and take them with us again when we leave. There is nothing being left laying around for weeks at a time.
I saw a lot of commentary on tax breaks, who gets them and who doesn’t. Before I say anything else, let me say this. I am not an accountant and cannot give you accounting or tax advice. That being said, I find it disconcerting that Exxon Mobile could, in 2009 make over $30 billion in profits, pay nothing in taxes, and get a $156 million rebate. Bank of America, which got about a $97,000,000,000 bailout. Paid nothing in taxes in 2009, made a profit of 4.4 Billion, and additionally got a $1.9 billion dollar refund. All the while we’re having to cut teachers pay, we’re having to let government employees go, unemployment is through the roof, and we’re talking about cutting government funded programs. Because we can’t afford them. Funny how we can’t afford government funded programs, like, public education, while we can afford to give companies making billions of dollars in profit each year rebates on the taxes they didn’t pay.
All this, and I haven’t even mentioned the 1% yet. So lets do just that. Lets take a company that locally, here in Roanoke, employs more than a thousand people. This company averages over $600,000,000 in profits annually. The upper executives of said company measure their personal worth in the millions. More than 50% of the employees in that company are on some form of public assistance because that company would rather pay their upper executives more, and increase the value of their stocks, than take care of the employees. So, who takes care of the employees? YOU. Your tax dollars are going to fund the food stamps that are needed to survive by people working for a company that COULD pay them enough to not be on public assistance, but chooses not to. So, you can blame a bunch of dirty unwashed hippies. Or you can blame the democrats. You can blame Bush or Obama or Babe Ruth. The reality is, we’re in this situation because of greed.
I hope, Terps and others, that I have addressed your concerns.
I would suggest that everyone here, please, take some time to come down and get educated about what is actually going on. What the concerns of the group are, what we hope to change, how we hope to make these changes. This isn’t a case of a bunch of dirty hippies camping out in your park. This is a case of concerned citizens hoping to inform others of things happening in their community and country.
If you have more questions, and don’t wish to come down to the park to get your answers, I welcome *polite* questions with *polite* discussion at the following Email Address: Occupypeoplesminds@gmail.com Do note however, if you choose to send an Email there and fill it with hatred, venom, and vitrol, you will be ignored.
I appreciate everyone’s time and consideration of these issues.
Also, and sorry for adding something again so soon. For those of you who support the Occupy movement, or just want more information, we are in the part every Saturday from 10am until about 6pm, with a general assembly held at 3pm(though you’re more likely to have a decent crowd that can answer questions and concerns of you come between Noon and 5). Sundays we have another rally (which also consists of a meeting of some of our working groups) from Noon until Five. These are both great opportunities to come and get more information, or show your support, or find out what you can do to make a difference.
During the week we generally have much smaller groups at the Fountain on Church/Market from 11am until 1pm (though, it should be noted, we don’t yet have enough people there regularly to guarantee someone there to answer questions. We also have Rush Hour at the corner of Elm and Williamson from 4pm until 6pm, and usually you can find at least 2-3 people there. We’d love to see you out there, and we’d love to answer questions.
John Houlihan,
What’s the name of that company?
John and other OWS organizers: Thank you very much for taking a stand against the outrageous inequities that have built up in the country over the past 30+ years. Let’s hope our nation is able to affect the needed changes in the peaceful manner you are working towards. The alternative is scary.
Folks, change is coming to america whether you like it or not. People, highly educated and motivated people are not able to find work making a living wage. This is unacceptable in america. I suggest we work together and find common ground and fix what’s wrong before it’s too late. OWS is a much better alternative change agent than a pissed off, out of control mob. You think violence can’t happen in america? Then you must be under 40 and you just have no idea of the violence this country is capable. Do a little homework and study up on American history. It’s all about change. Nothing lasts forever.
Dan, I can’t say that, because as an employee of said company, talking about that companies policies in an open forum, where I name that company, I’d get fired. Keeping it to “A company” keeps me safe.
Gotta be Walmart…
Everybody take note of how terps suddenly stopped going on about trash being left around and dirty smelly people camping out after we pointed out that he was obviously talking about some of the homeless folks who hang out in that area and not the OWS. Especially since the local OWS folks don’t camp out or leave trash behind.
He still hasn’t told us whether he was lying or just didn’t know what he was talking about.
Especially since the local OWS folks don’t camp out or leave trash behind.
Weren’t there like, all of three people? Who could tell if they left trash behind or not?
Suzie, I’d inquire as to where you got the number 3. After all, there have been more than three occupiers posting here. Furthermore, in the pictures provided by Dan, you can see more than three people in the photo. Still, if you have your doubts, come down on Saturday and meet everyone. I assure you there will be more than three people. On the other hand, if you’re simply attempting to be inflammatory and willfully ignorant, you’ve done an excellent job of ignorance. One might say you’ve a natural talent for it, however, I am not such a one, and will not make such a comment.
“On the other hand, if you’re simply attempting to be inflammatory and willfully ignorant, you’ve done an excellent job of ignorance.”
Looks like John Houlihan is catching on.
John Houlihan
Very eloquently and simply stated. If Terps or any of the other coporatists fail to understand or appreciate what is taking place there,
it is because they have become conditioned to the culture of greed and
are part of the problem. Keep the pressure on. Over 70% of the American people agree with you.
John Houlihan
I saw a pic on this blog a few weeks back that had a whopping THREE people. Maybe you nuts will figure out what you’re protesting someday.
sandi did you think all these posts up by yourself or did your boss help you> does he know how much of HIS time you waste while NOT WORKING.
John Houlihan, you folks have no idea of the shark infested waters you have dived into. Do not give the scum ammunition, I assure you they will use it. This is not a normal blog with controls beyond the N-word and the seven deadlies. You are on your own and retaliation is a known recourse for the baser peoples who populate this blog.
I see the resident blog Monkey is still throwing its feces ’round here…. at all hours of the night too
Thank you, John Houlihan, for laying out some of the issues that this particular occupy group is focusing on. You make a lot of sense and I appreciate the efforts you’re making toward educating Roanokers and this column’s readers (including myself).
It’s a shame it took several hours and dozens of comments before someone from the occupy group did so, as the thread went in other directions than it might have had your cohorts responded directly to good-faith questions instead of feeding the trolls and redirecting us to your facebook page. The free media was rather squandered as a result of their lack of media savvy (or communication skills?).
As I said in my first post, I applaud the freedom of assembly and freedom of speech the occupy groups are taking advantage of. I think as another poster said, that the “occupy” sentiment was a good attention-getter and it’s probably run its course and it’s time for the groups to get out of the parks and into the local, state, & federal legislative process.
John Houlihan, in the picture on this thread I count 11 people (including folks with only their legs showing), so as far as I’m concerned you will always have exactly 11 people at your events. Isn’t that how it always works?
Over 70% of the American people agree with you.</em
Not bad, ace. It's less than half that.. Now down to 33%.
http://nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-street/2011/11/16/poll-occupy-wall-street-favor-fading-fast
It’s not hard to look up at the picture of them standing there and to see terps is lying…there’s no garbage on the ground.
I’d say John Houlihan handily smacked down the haters on the thread.
You know, pammala is all against a nanny state and whatnot. But golly, give her a notion that one person she doesn’t know could conceivably be wasting one dime of their employer’s time, and pammala blossoms into all her finger-wagging glory. Rather than minding her own business, I mean. It’s hilarious.
We all ought to chip in an get her a T-shirt that says “hypocrit” for Christmas. Or maybe “nannee.”.
@110 Love the planned misspell there. How about “hippocrit” instead?
Unless Pammala is one of those “lazy” people who don’t work, doesn’t the same apply to her?
Nanny pammala, I am not the one who needs help posting and YOU do not know my work schedule.
Silly Dan…there are only 2 Ns in nanee.
My Dearest Suzie,
It seems as though you’ve missed all of the economists and politicians who have come forth to explain what it is Occupy is about. That’s okay, many people have, and it doesn’t mean they all watch Fox News. Though, from your attitude, I’d say it’s likely you are one of those Fox News watchers. That stuff will rot your brain. Regardless, I’d like to take this time to educate you, and anyone else genuinely interested in what specific issues the Occupy movement is protesting. These are in no particular order.
First, we’re protesting the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act. In case you didn’t know, the Glass-Steagall act was originated near the end of the Great Depression. It was enacted to help prevent another great depression. The major focus of the act was to keep investment banking and commercial banks separate. To make that a bit more plain, it meant that the banks weren’t allowed to gamble with your deposits. When the Glass-Steagall act was repealed, banks started gambling with your money. When some of those gambles didn’t pay off, particularly in the housing market, the banks lost your money. The bailouts were, in large part, to keep the banks from not having the money to cover your deposits. We’d like to see the Glass-Steagall act reinstated, due to how it effected this latest bout of recessions.
We’re protesting corporate personhood. This is going to take some explaining. First, let me point out that while the Occupy movement seems to be aiming much of it’s displeasure at corporations, the idea that we hate them and want to see them all dissolved is inaccurate. We know and understand that corporations like Wal-Mart, Verizon, Wells Fargo, all contribute heavily to the job market. Without corporations such as those named, we’d have millions more unemployed. However, that being said, corporations are not people. In 2010 the Supreme Court said that corporations are entitled to the same rights as individuals. It specifically addressed the notion that a corporation can, from it’s own money, create and run an ad campaign either in support of, or against, a politician or party. To break it down even further, now, when a corporation or lobbyist goes to a candidate to try getting their vote, the lobbyist has something more in his arsenal. They can, without being too specific, say “Vote our way, and we’ll do $50,000,000 worth of ads for your next campaign, free” or instead of the carrot, “Hey, if you don’t vote our way, we’ll run $50,000,000 worth of ads against you, next campaign” Because corporations have a much greater pool of money to draw from than the average person, it gives them a formidable advantage. pair this with lobbyists, and you find that the votes are bought and sold, and what the people want matters very little. Recently, there have been several journalists and media broadcasts talking about how easy it is to influence congress and the senate, just by a few well placed promises. So, we protest corporate personhood.
While we’re on the topic of D.C. backdoor deals, we’d like an end to lobbyists. Really having a group of people who get paid to represent the interests of Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Industry in general, while having no one playing advocate for the people, once again puts the people at a severe disadvantage. The fact that these lobbyists can spend millions schmoozing our politicians and people think that’s okay amazes me. More to the point, while Big Oil can afford to buy several senators and congressmen, most individuals can’t. We want the power returned to the people, and taken away from lobbyists.
We’re protesting corporate irresponsibility. When you have a company or corporation that shows profits in the billions, which also refuses to pay it’s employees enough to live off of, they’re creating a burden for everyone else.
We’re protesting the loop holes written into the tax laws that allow companies like Exxon Mobile to have billions of dollars in profit, pay nothing in taxes, and get a refund. Granted, they can’t manage that every year, but the years they can? A huge hit to the economy. This also takes us back to getting corporations out of the government. When a new bill or proposal comes down that would potentially give these large corporations big tax breaks, do you think for one minute that those corporations don’t fire up their lobbyists and start buying votes?
Then there are the things that are a bit more nebulous and hard to define, but are just as important. You can’t really put a name to the idea that it’s wrong to make teachers, already some of the most over worked and under paid people in the country, take a 20% pay cut, when the issue could be resolved by having the millionaires of the country pay 3% more. I’m not sure what you would call that, I just call it wrong.
You have issues like outdated equipment being used in fire departments across the country, because the fire departments can’t afford new equipment. In some places the fire fighters themselves have to pay for their equipment. This going on while cities and states spend money on Urban Beautification.
You have millions of jobless here in the United States while we’re making it cheaper and easier for American manufacturers to move overseas, and take their jobs with them. How many millions of jobs would open up in the U.S. if we were to tax the piss out of anything being brought from overseas. How many jobs would be created if we forced American companies to stay American.
There are no names for those ideas. They don’t wrap up in a nice little package. Those are the things we’re protesting, those and many other iniquities. I hope now you have some idea of what it is we stand for.
As an aside… Suzie love, didn’t anyone ever tell you you can’t trust Faux News? While normally I wouldn’t respond to something from Faux News, I’ll take this one. At the numbers posted by Faux News it turns out… People like us more than they like congress, but we let congress run the country. ‘Nuff said.
People like John Houlihan make me very angry.
First, he works at a job which he knew going in doesn’t pay the amount he would like to have, so instead of making himself more marketable, he bitches about the company’s ownership making millions.
John, let me educate you. Wages for a particular job are a function of supply and demand. 0bviously your skill set is a dime a dozen. Many can do what you do and are willing to do so for the wage you receive. Ergo, your wage is what it is. Why the EFF should the owners of the company THEY founded, THEY worked to get off the ground, THEY risked their savings for, THEY have to worry about keeping afloat—just hand over a portion of their earnings to people like you who take no ownership and who secretively work AGAINST the interests of that company? Damn right you should be fired. I’d fire you in a heartbeat.
And John Houlihan, while we’re at it, let’s discuss some more of your claims”
find it disconcerting that Exxon Mobile could, in 2009 make over $30 billion in profits, pay nothing in taxes, and get a $156 million rebate.
This is nothing but a gd lie. In addition to paying about 15% of every gallon of gas sold in federal, state, and local taxes, Exxon worldwide pays roughly 3X the amount in taxes as it receives in revenue. I’d say thousands of employees, millions of stockholders, and dozens of local, state, and national governments owe Exxon a huge debt of gratitude for all the wealth they produce.
All this, and I haven’t even mentioned the 1% yet.
Let’s talk about the them. Right now the top 1% pays 37% of all federal income taxes, and the top 5% pays more than the bottom 95%, while 47% pay no taxes at all. What would you consider fair, John? For even MORE people to pay no taxes? Do you think the top 5% should pay ALL the taxes? Just what do you think your own personal obligation should be? Nothing? My husband and I pay approximately half a million in federal taxes each year as a reward for providing hundreds of jobs unique to the valley. Our company pays many thousands more to federal, state, and city governments.
I would suggest you, John, to stop doing worthless sh*t like holding signs and bitching about your plight, get off your brains and try to better yourself, get a little ambition, and go out and earn the level of money you think you’re entitled to.
Free advice from somebody who did it the hard way.
“How many millions of jobs would open up in the U.S. if we were to tax the piss out of anything being brought from overseas.”
A lot. This won’t happen because it would cut into precious profit margins. It’s definitely the way to go, though, and should have started happening as soon as any job that paid or would have potentially paid decently started getting moved to China.
Ya gotta love the notion that workers’ wages = theft from their employer. How dare the serfs want a portion of the harvest so they can eat?
High tariffs on imported goods would work for awhile. Then, when other companies did the same thing to our goods, it would hurt our exports, and that would hurt employment. It’s a two-edged sword.
Thanks John for ALL you do.
I have always remembered what my Professor said many years ago when were asked to write an agumentative essay. “Never argue with a fool. You will never win.”
Ya gotta love the notion that workers’ wages = theft from their employer. How dare the serfs want a portion of the harvest so they can eat?
Pop question for Dan:
Know what happens to businesses that fail to control costs? Nobody gets anything to eat because there ain’t no harvest.
MJ, you have that more right than you can know. Futility is a vanity we can no longer indulge in. This is too serious and fools are too plentiful. Move on John H and all other Occupy minded folks, the fetid bile that tries to pretend it is educated, wealthy and productive is enough to cause loss of time you can never get back. Note the avatar and scroll past to the sane posts, civil discourse and informed opinions. The blog will thank you!
Thanks John for ALL you do
Yeah, John. Thanks for sitting on your ass holding a sign. That’s really doing something.
Suzie, sweet sweet Suzie.
First, your claim that my facts on Exxon were G.D. lie. I’d direct you to doing some research.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/04/06/90299/exxon-tax/
Next I’d suggest you do some basic thinking. If they were paying taxes equal to 3Xs what they generate in revenue, they’d be out of business, because they’d be paying more than what they’re bringing in. That’s just silly.
Next, when I spoke of the 1% I never said anything about them paying more in taxes, did I? No, instead I pointed out that YOUR taxes are going to support the POOR people that the executives of THOSE corporations create. And you say that wages are determined by supply and demand? That’s the most fallacious statement I’ve ever heard. Wages are determined simply based on how little a company can get away with paying people before those people quit. In today’s economy, that’s very little, since finding another job is rather difficult. As to your advice that I better myself, so I can earn what I want, that’s another rather silly statement, as the number of college graduates who are either unemployed, or underemployed, grows each year. Bettering yourself doesn’t mean you’ll get anywhere. It just means you have to pay to get no where.
Now, Suzie, my dearest, I hope you’ll understand when I tell you that you are an uninformed, uneducated, misguided, brainwashed sheeple, that I don’t mean it personally, I just think you’re as bad as the rest of the sheeple, too mind numbed to have an original thought, and only capable of regurgitating the trash you pick up in bits in and pieces as you chew cud through your daily life.
Marry me?
“How many millions of jobs would open up in the U.S. if we were to tax the piss out of anything being brought from overseas.”
I’ll just ask everyone to remember how it was buying goods before 1993′s NAFTA. You can now buy items at Lowe’s, Home Depot, and Walmart cheaper than you could 20 years ago. Driving the prices up doesn’t spur buying.
Nitwits.
Additionally, not to bring this lovely debate back around to where it originated, but I’d like to remind everyone that Occupy Roanoke will be collecting lightly used coats, hats, gloves, etc. for distribution to the local homeless community If you have anything to donate, you can drop it off in Elmwood Park Saturday December 3rd.
We’d also like to thank the community for it’s support.
Heds up: John Houlihan’s comment explaining what Occupy is protesting is an upcoming Post of the Day.
T minus 30 and counting. . .
#131 Good job, John. And dittoes what Sandi said in #127.
Love the debate John has brought to the blog. Based on the responses so far, I’d say OWS can’t lose.
Vive la Quatre-vingt-dix neuf!
John Houlihan, thanks for the detailed post that is becoming Post of the Day. I have been curious about the goals myself, so it was helpful. Here is my question: Is the OWS organized enough to be sort of self aware of its deteriorating image as time goes on? I’m a fairly conservative democrat (if I had to label myself something in particular). I support OWS’ goals as you’ve stated them but I am starting not to support the length of time that places are being “occupied”. I believe the press the movement is receiving is focusing on the far left (as it always focuses on extremes, as we know) and that will start to alienate a broader base of supporters. It really feels like time for the movement to go home and start to really organize itself around 2-3 achievable goals and build support for them.
Does that make sense? I’m not certain I’m expressing myself very well here…but I think that OWS either needs to call it a day entirely, or it needs to regroup and focus its attention.
Total consumer price inflation since 1993 through 2010 is 44.7%. The rate for 2011 so far is 3.16%.
WOW Ron! Someone is holding tight to some reins!!
It goes without saying, but I will do so anyway. The people of “Occupy Roanoke” have appeared to be head and shoulders above those who have disrespected and denigrated them. Seems par for the course. Thank you! I will try to see you on Saturday.
Total consumer price inflation since 1993 through 2010 is 44.7%. The rate for 2011 so far is 3.16%.
I am sure most of that is food, gas, and housing.
I don’t suspect you are exactly the handy type, Ron. But stuff like hammers, tape measures, and power tools are all cheaper than they were 20 years ago. Thursday, my hubby bought a Porter-Cable two-drill pack plus light for $69. Components are made abroad cheap. We are no longer imprisoned by overpriced union crap like we used to be.
@Suzie, your humbleness is astonishing. I’m sure your children (if you have them) are a beacon of great morals and studiousness given that I’m sure you plant a good example for them to live by.
I’m equally as impressed that your husband and neighbors have accomplished so much and have you to represent them.
Question, what exactly do you and your husband do? and by you and your husband I’m assuming you have an equal role in the business and haven’t just married into it.
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0004.html
You’re not wrong, Dan, but we’d still win that battle. We consistently import far more than we export.
Next I’d suggest you do some basic thinking. If they were paying taxes equal to 3Xs what they generate in revenue, they’d be out of business, because they’d be paying more than what they’re bringing in. That’s just silly
Not overall revenue, just per gallon of refined gasoline as we were talking about. XOM is highly diverse, in case you didn’t know, which I am sure you didn’t.
As for the bailouts you lament, those were the products of government meddling, the very antithesis of capitalism. 0bama’s regime forced businesses to accept bailouts in most cases. Conservatives were the ones who opposed the ‘stimulus’ giveaways.
Wages are determined simply based on how little a company can get away with paying people before those people quit.
Exactly. That’s what the market is. By the same token, workers will get away taking every penny they can before the company refuses to pay more. it works both ways. It’s the mutual self-interest that makes the system thrive.
As to your advice that I better myself, so I can earn what I want, that’s another rather silly statement, as the number of college graduates who are either unemployed, or underemployed, grows each year. Bettering yourself doesn’t mean you’ll get anywhere. It just means you have to pay to get no where.
If you have a worthless degree like something in the liberal arts, then that’s true. As for engineers, computer scientists, and accountants, these people can get work anytime they want. But you’re still thinking like a dependent leftwinger. People with NO college can find work if they can be innovative and fill needs. You just want somebody to do everything for you. That’s what this OWS whining is all about.
Miriam — It’s actually interesting you bring up the idea of ending the physical occupations. Many of the physical occupations have started moving in new directions. OWS actually broke off into several groups, one of which marched from NY to DC over the course of several weeks, to protest outside the capital building (it should be noted that the protest at the capital building, as far as I’ve heard so far, has not turned into an Occupation). There is, inside the Occupy movement the knowledge that what started out as a positive thing, has deteriorated into something the general population can’t understand, and which has become somewhat stagnant.
I know this didn’t fully address your concerns, and I recognize that for a moment there I got up on my soap box. I apologize for both of those things. The unfortunate reality is that, like so many people in this movement, I don’t have all the answers.
Occupypeoplesminds@gmail.com
The problem facing the Occupy movement is one of “How?” On the one hand you have occupiers who are of the opinion we should be attempting to change things from inside the system. You have others that feel we can pressure the system from the outside, using public opinion, and force change. You have the few who feel as though we don’t need the system, and that real change can happen on the level of small groups. Each of those beliefs have merit. Though they all have inherent problems.
One of the largest problems facing the OWS movement is one of publicity and media. Now, while sitting here on the blog of a gentleman who has shown his support for the OWS movement, and is a part of the printed media, I’ll attempt not to bash the media too much, particularly since we are very grateful for his support. However, and this is as much opinion as anything, it feels as though the media, in many ways, has attempted to downplay the number of people involved, the types of people involved, and what kind of message is involved. There has been much hype about violence being perpetrated by occupiers, yet most people have no idea who Scott Olson is.
I’m using Scott Olson as an example, because in my eyes he exemplifies what is wrong with media coverage of the Occupy movement. Scott Olson is a former Marine who served two tours of duty in Iraq. He served his country, he did his duty. He came home whole and sound, something not everyone returning from a war zone can say. He took part in Occupy Oakland because he thought that the things they were doing to educate people about the problems in America were good and right. Having gotten off of work one morning he headed down to where Occupy Oakland was protesting, while there the police showed up and started attempting to break up the protesters. They were firing tear gas canisters into the crowd. The proper method of deploying tear gas into a crowd is to fire the canister up, allowing it to fall down into the crowd. Using that method it loses most of it’s velocity, and much of it’s ability to do damage, beyond the tear gas itself. Police with Occupy Oakland instead fired their canisters directly into the crowd. Scott Olson, a man who served proudly with our armed forces was struck in the head. He suffered brain damage from this. He spent weeks learning to talk again. As of 11/27/11 He still struggles with words. How much air time did the media dedicate to that?
On the other hand, during a general strike in Occupy Oakland some people who were widely denounced by Occupy Oakland broke a few windows, and lit several fires. This received more press than the injury of Scott Olson.
Also during the Oakland general strike, it was reported by mainstream media that there were “About five-thousand people” while footage shows much more than that. This clip is interesting to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk9rZxCVff0
At this point, I, and many other occupiers, agree that the physical occupations have become stagnant, and problematic. The issue is how to open up lines of communications not just with the legislators, but with the people in general. For so long we’ve been force fed the idea that everything is fine, that most people don’t even notice when things are terribly terribly wrong. Most of the media can’t be counted on to help make people aware, after all, companies like GE which make their money from the status quo, also own NBC, MSNBC, and about 26 television stations in all. They’re not going to report things that would hurt their own business.
The reality is, most of the movement isn’t sure how to proceed at this point. That’s one reason why the local chapter has decided to do things like more Teach-Ins, a coat drive (in the hopes of helping people, and somewhat selfishly, make people curious). We’re planning other forms of outreach like a newsletter, some canvasing, anything we can come up with that has the potential to get other people informed, and involved. At this point, numbers plays a big part in what your local Occupy group, and Occupy groups across the country, can accomplish. As long as a majority of people are uninformed, and uninvolved, the media, the legislators, and the people in control can continue to ignore us.
That’s odd. I put the Email address at the bottom, and somehow it went to the middle, My apologies for my poor use of the internet.
Suzie –
I’ve been warned that I should just stop feeding the troll. However, I feel as though I would be doing you a great disservice if I did not attempt, one last time, to show you how *you* are being taken advantage of.
This is going to get into the welfare system, and I feel safe in my assumption that were it up to you, there wouldn’t *be* a welfare system. However, we both know that won’t happen. As such I’ll attempt to demonstrate how things currently work, and how that current working works AGAINST *you* personally, as well as demonstrating how that could be corrected. I’m going to try to be serious and thoughtful here. I hope you can do the same, after all, I’m trying to tell you how your money is being stolen from you.
We’re going to start with three fictional people. We’ll call them Jimmy, Lori, and Suzie. Jimmy is the chairman of the board for BloggoCorp. Suzie is a tax payer. Lori is an employee at BloggoCorp, she’s also a single mother of a toddler.
Jimmy, as chairman of BloggoCorp has a personal salary of a little over a million dollars a year, once you throw in his bonuses and other assorted revenue streams he’s making around two million a year.
BloggoCorp, as the leader producer of pet yarn balls, has an annual income of just under one billion a year.
Lori, as a single mother making $8.25/hour working forty hours a week, makes around $17,000 per year. In order for Lori to survive and take care of her child she receives public assistance in the form of food stamps, and wic. Lori has tried to find a second job, but with the current economy she’s lucky just to have one job, forget about a second. She’d love to further her education, but between now and graduation, she still needs to survive.
Suzie pays taxes. Suzie’s taxes go towards many things, including paying for Lori’s food stamps and wic.
Jimmy could afford to pay Lori enough to not need public assistance, but he chooses not to, instead padding his own wallet, and padding the companies stock price.
So… there are two options here. Suzie can continue to have her tax dollars go towards helping Lori, or Jimmy can pay Lori a living wage, and Suzie’s tax dollars can either go elsewhere, or, amazingly enough if all the Lori’s of the country were taken care of by their employer, all of the Suzies might just get away with paying LESS in taxes.
I hope that you really took some time to read through this, and think about it. I’m not proposing anything mind boggling. I’m simply proposing that people who haven’t earned your money stop being given it. Maybe framing the issue like this will help you see more clearly.
Occupypeoplesminds@gmail.com
“Not overall revenue, just per gallon of refined gasoline as we were talking about. XOM is highly diverse, in case you didn’t know, which I am sure you didn’t.”
This is kind of like saying, let’s not talk about total tax burdens, let’s merely talk about federal income tax rates.
Why? Easy. The poor and the middle class have a higher total tax burden than do the rich, who pay higher marginal income tax rates.
@Suzie, enlighten us students who are obviously being schooled by your wisdom in the career you took. What degree do you have and what business is it that you do?
Love to hear your answers to my questions SUZIE.
I know the poster “James” who posted earlier on this thread. Wouldn’t you know. He’s a small business owner.
@143 – John H. – Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate your candor regarding that issue. It must be frustrating but also challenging, exciting, etc. I hope that the people who have given their time, energy and ideas to OWS find a direction that will be both satisfying and affect change.
We have become an exceedingly lazy society (intellectually) and people are complacent on a level that is damaging (myself included at times, for sure).
I do think that the “occupation” should stop and phase two (whatever that turns out to be) begin. Best of luck determining what that should end up being…but it is always better to aim for achievable goals…perhaps swing weight locally, for example. Then as smaller goals are achieved across the nation on local levels, the volume will increase overall.
I have to say that it has been good to see people take to the streets. I’ve been very worried that in another decade, we will all look back and see that this is the moment that MANY MORE of us should have been involved and I’m not going to lie, I haven’t lifted a finger. But as you all stand out there this weekend, know that there are many of us who, while not physically standing next to you, are indeed with you.
For people who are squeamish about an excise tax on imports, there’s the alternative strategy of raining down tax incentives on American companies and providing tax disincentives for those who choose to outsource to sweatshops.
@150 – Miriam – Right now many groups, like the local Roanoke group, are looking into local changes. Local changes working toward state wide changes which work towards changes at the federal level. Also, your support, whether physical or not, is greatly appreciated. It helps to bolster our spirits, knowing there are people out there who “get it.”
Also, for folks who can’t attend the rallies on the weekends (Saturday 10-6) but would like to find out what they can do to help,we have a website.
Occupyroanokeva.com
There we have various working groups like Legal&Research, Direct Action, Outreach, and others. These are great ways for people to present ideas on how we can help move things along locally, and help the group without having to attend each week.
We also have a facebook page where folks can come by and see what we’re talking about, see whats being done in the community, see some of the news stories, or just drop in to let folks know you support their cause.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/Occupyroanokeva/
I meant tax incentives to hire Americans.
“…the local chapter has decided to do things like more Teach-Ins, a coat drive (in the hopes of helping people, and somewhat selfishly, make people curious). We’re planning other forms of outreach like a newsletter, some canvasing, anything we can come up with that has the potential to get other people informed, and involved.”
John, my only advice would be to not reinvent the wheel. A coat drive is nice on its surface, but there are hardworking, established nonprofits that do this year in, year out, and THEY need the press and the attention and the foot traffic and the donations that go along with coat-and-glove drives. You stand to create much more goodwill by supporting existing efforts than you do by circumventing them. (And no, giving the Rescue Mission your leftovers doesn’t count.)
“hammers, tape measures, and power tools are all cheaper than they were 20 years ago” – and most of them won’t be functioning longer than 5 years either…!
On the other hand, I have some older quality hand tools and power tools that were handed down to me that are still reliable.
SUZIE, it’s easy to call people maggots and such. I’m guessing you either became very bashful after having the spotlight turned on you or your husband is a smart man and told you to stop speaking. I’m taking a guess but I’m thinking you’re a housewife who thinks that just because you married a successful man gives you an entitlement to speak down on people. If that’s the case, it’s a little absurd thinking that just because you can take off your clothes is in anyway benefiting you as a person who has done something in their life, giving them the right to talk to people the way you do. If your husband’s business fails or “leaves” (as you say can happen) then I’m sure the decision and consequences are because of him, not because of you or has anything to do with you.
please correct me if I’m wrong. Again, I would love to hear what business you indeed run or anything else about you other than the fact that you need to be more mindful before opening that gentle little mouth of yours.
@151/153 That’s actually a great idea, and much better than just “tax the piss out of them!” These are the kinds of ideas we need to get legislators behind. Show them the public is serious about these things, and see what they can do to change it.
A Brooks Pro saddle is definitely NOT cheaper than it was 10 years ago. The price has doubled. . .
Maybe terps considers leaves “trash.”
“Do you realize some citizens are earning 200,000 times more money than their honest neighbors?”
I think that statement sums it up nicely. Just because my neighbor is honest, doesn’t mean that he should earn a large salary. My neighbor hasn’t paid for an education that would result in a decent wage.
My neighbor is just honest about the fact that I should split my salary with him, while I continue to do the work and pay for the education that reaped his reward.
“It all adds up to a hefty percentage for those who live paycheck to paycheck.”
About twelve years ago that was me. Then I got an education, and a job that would allow me to not live that way. Granted, anyone could live paycheck to paycheck even making $400,000/year.
It is a matter then of being responsible and living within your means. Maybe that is the problem… maybe these people living paycheck to paycheck want money left over after they pay their iPhone bill, and the cable bill, and XBOX Live.
Not everyone gets an iPhone and Starbucks. Some people get a flip phone and Citgo coffee. That’s just how it works when you haven’t made yourself marketable enough to earn the living you desire.
“OK, this is where ignorance of the nine-to-fivers kicks in. The 1% threshold is achieved at approximately $334,000 a year. Kristen thinks only 1 or 2 people out of a half million earn that. There are probably four or five on our street who pull in that amount.”
I don’t make that much (even combined with the wife), but I will be at a Christmas party Saturday night where 95% of the people there, do.
$334,000/year is not as much money as some make it out to be. Sure, it’s a lot.. and I’d love to be able to make that kind of money.. but seriously.. 1 or 2 people in the Roanoke Valley? Give me a break.
“How many millions of jobs would open up in the U.S. if we were to tax the piss out of anything being brought from overseas.”
Damn iPhones would cost more… make it even harder for the protesters to get by paycheck to paycheck.
Jack, channeling Dave Ramsay.
@161 Jack, I’m going to agree with you to the extent that I do believe that most Americans live beyond their means. It’s become the American way really which is a shame.
No offense Jack, but $345,000? Big whoop. Do you honestly think a paycheck is what creates the real top 1%? You think Warren Buffet is in the top percentile because of his paycheck? Seriously?
If a fat salary was what was driving this train, income tax would be capped at 15%, and capital gains would be 33%. if you think mere working stiffs like your high flying friends are calling the shots, you’re naive.
The poor and the middle class have a higher total tax burden than do the rich
I’ll gladly trade my burden with any member of the “poor” or “middle class”. You wanna swap, Dan? You’ll have to mortgage your house to pay for my 3rd quarter.
SUZIE, “your” 3rd quarter or your husband’s? You still haven’t answered any questions about the things you keep boasting about yourself. Until you do, I’ll keep calling you out on this so long as you keep talking down on others for theirs.
#168 Ryan, you do realize, don’t you, that you’re talking to an imaginary construct? Even if the troll you’re quizzing answers, you can’t trust a thing it says.