Tuesday’s column: Meet the folks of ‘Occupy Roanoke’
Shot by Dan Saturday in Elmwood Park
By now we’re into the fourth month of the “Occupy” movement. No doubt you’ve read about or seen the encampments in New York and elsewhere, the pepper-spraying of peaceful students in Davis, Calif., and the vicious police beatings of demonstrators in Oakland.
Roanoke has its own Occupy outfit. It’s more like “Occupy-lite,” though, because they’re not camping out. They’re mostly a weekend and weekday lunch-hour deal, with people holding signs.
Saturday afternoon I dropped in on Occupy Roanoke’s weekly “General Assembly” in Elmwood Park. I counted 35 people there.
There were a few scruffy, hippie-looking characters in the small crowd. But even those representatives of “the 99%” didn’t smell like hadn’t showered in a week. They did not seem to need delousing. And none of them was smoking pot.
They collected coats and other cold-weather outwear for the homeless, which will be distributed this upcoming weekend. They also handed out food and talked about this country’s future.
All of which ought to tell you that the image painted in the national media may be skewed, if Roanoke’s Occupy crew is anything like other cities.
TO READ THE REST OF THE COLUMN CLICK HERE
December 6, 2011 - 6:00 AM
All of which ought to tell you that the image painted in the national media may be skewed
Over 5,000 OWS members have been arrested nationwide. Crimes committed include disorderly conduct, public defacation, vandalism, larceny, arson, child molestation, and rape. The OWS dirtbags have cost taxpayers $13 million nationwide in law-enforcement costs, tens of millions in property damage and business losses. The Port of Oakland shutdown cost $8 million alone.
The MSM reporting has been skewed all right. Like Dan, they’re pretending these anti-God anti-capitalist lunatics are legitimate serious people.
Great story Dan. I was especially glad to see your focus on the small business owners because it clearly shows that these folks aren’t just the “lazy hippies” Republicans are making them out to be.
But-but-but…I’m just sputtering with disbelief! This is not the Occupy movement I heard about on Fox News! What’s going on?
One of the things right-wingers don’t mention when they quote those HORRFYING arrest figures, Dan, is that the vast majority of them are for peaceful sitdown type tactics.
Gee Dan, maybe you could tell them how the awesome Democratic Party can help them.
Suzie,
Surely as someone who probably believes in limited government, you wouldn’t use trumped-up charges from the authorities to justify your disdain for the Occupy movement. (And when it comes to serious charges like child molestation and rape, I feel like you need to start providing sources). As far as money spent to shut down the protests, that is money governments are ELECTING to pay in order to interfere with a constitutional right. The whole reason the protestors are there is to point out the wastes and inefficiencies of the system. Spending millions to arrest, detain, beat and hurt people exercising their freedom to assemble is an example of that.
The alleged mainstream media spends as much time playing sound bites of people who dislike or misunderstand OWS as they do portraying them in a positive light. You should understand that corporate-owned media isn’t fully comfortable with the OWS message. If not for the increasingly disproportionate riot police response, outlets like CNN would sooner turn a blind eye.
Anti-capitalist, while simplistic, is an accusation I can see you deriving. Where’d you get anti-God from? Are they occupying the Vatican?
You’re behaving like a mouthpiece throwing out stats and information with no backup and resorting to ad hominem attacks. But you can’t satisfactorily explain WHY these citizens shouldn’t exercise their right to petition their government and assemble.
Media Attaque,
Big Clout are the anti-capitalists. They’re the ones who’ve repeatedly sought (and more recently have been getting) unfair advantages. Adam Smith warned they would do this in The Wealth of Nations.
Speaking of the “peaceful students” and demonstrators, how come you didn’t mention those who assaulted and provoked the police, or ignored police orders to disperse, or illegally camped out on private property?
Only telling one side of a story isn’t very good reporting, Dan…but it does make a great example of journalistic bias.
I was at a doctor’s appointment on Monday morning and there was a television on in the lab where I had to have a two hour blood test done. During the news segment of the Today Show the Occupy Movement was mentioned.
The technician (who was a young girl of around 25) turned to me and said, “I wish I didn’t have to work and could just sit around all day holding signs. Those people are just worthless.” To which I replied, “I don’t mean to offend you, but I think you’ve been listening to the wrong people… I would urge you to learn more about what the Occupy Movement stands for. I think you will change your mind as they really are on your side.”
I hope she heeded my advice.
Good points Media …. don’t expect any real discussion on here.
I ditto everything Suzie says and add my comments.
On the beatings and pepper spraying, the orders came down through the chain of command! The occupy idiots were told they were in violation and ordered to leave.
Come on red blooded american capitalists, lets chime in on this one.
What actually do these idiot occupy people want? Capitalism to stop?
Do they want more government to regulate how much Walmart makes on a product? How about the computers and phones they own? Do they want more and bigger government to regulate how much Apple or Microsoft make?
These idiots are nothing like the TEA party people who actually get permits and follow the law when it comes to their rallies. These occupy idiots are criminals and should be arrested when in violation and prosecuted by the law.
Wow…I’m amazed Dan wasn’t raped or at least pick-pocketed by these nefarious Occupiers.
“If not for the increasingly disproportionate riot police response, outlets like CNN would sooner turn a blind eye.”
Attaque’s right about that. Corporate everything – including the news – would just as soon pretend this entire movement doesnt exist. Serious coverage of the initial movement in downtown Manhattan didn’t start for quite a while after the protest had begun.
@3 – It’s well staged and well played. However 35 people that come once a week is no representation of the 99% or the entire OWS movement and unless you’re heads been somewhere else, we’ve all seen stories or rape, public defecation, disorderly conduct, etc. I wonder their thoughts on the next election.
“I ditto everything Suzie says…”
You didn’t seriously bring that “I ditto” crap.
“On the beatings and pepper spraying, the orders came down through the chain of command! The occupy idiots were told they were in violation and ordered to leave. ”
Um…what “chain of command”? “Violation” of what…their first amendment rights? Do you have any idea what you’re “dittoing” except what you’re regurgitating from hate radio?
This is what we get when witless Rushlings show up.
Upcoming correction to this column, folks: The Rev. Audette Fulson resigned from the Unitarian Universalist Church of Roanoke effective Nov. 30, after 10 years at the church.
Ok
So the “STORY” is that the Roanoke OWS protestors were not infested with vermin and in need of being deloused. You must be so proud that your movement has advanced so far.
How long will it be before OWS protesters get to the next stage of maturation and professional growth. You know, like looking for a job, self sacrifice for the family, quiet determination to succeed and , above all, avoiding self pity.
Some day OWS may finally arrive at the tea party. You know, taking care of yourself and not depending on others to solve your problems.
I’ve stated on other threads that I believe OWS needs to stop camping and I’m very happy that our local group just gathers but doesn’t “inhabit”. I also think that at the point in time that other groups were ordered to disburse, they should have peacefully disbursed and begun phase 2 of the OWS process (whatever that turns out to be).
I do not think that the OWS movement(s) have managed the media perception well or been self perceptive enough to realize when enough was enough…in order to preserve the real good in their message, they needed to pack up and go home much earlier.
I very much support the efforts, the message, the time and energy that OWS has put forth; however, they will not be taken seriously by creating mayhem…they will be taken seriously be creating change: slowly, thoughfully, locally and legally.
Dan, glad you went down there and chatted with our friend and OWS articulator, John H.
Terps,
Most of the Occupy Roanoke crowd seem to have jobs. The ones that don’t are looking. They’re also in the early stages of starting 2 businesses. One’s a co-op cleaning service; the other a co-op daycare. When those get off the ground, they’ll be in the job-creation business.
@ 5: Perhaps the occupiers could help the Democratic Party, by changing it to bear less resemblance to the Republican Party.
“I do not think that the OWS movement(s) have managed the media perception well ”
Not hard to see that happening when the institutional media is against you from the outset, and when you don’t control or own instruments of news conveyance.
Revolutions don’t always start off cleanly or with pre-conceived and well-articulated positions. The drawn-out and excruciating birth of this country alone could illustrate that point. It sounds like our own downtown group is working to put together a coherent platform as well as to engage in community outreach in other ways (the much maligned coat collection). It’s a start. These have literally nothing going for them, no advantages and no leverage. Exactly like the rest of the 99%.
Sign #1: “Capitalist profit is evil! Shut down businesses!!”
Sign #2: “Where are the jobs?”
These morons don’t see the irony.
Sign #1 “Stick it to evil corporations. Yeah!!!
Sign #2 “Why does the economy suck?”
-OWS morons.
One OWS protestor chant (repeated by fellow OWS loons) is that people should have the right to print money.
Yep, these people need to be taken seriously…
Lynda K, that young girl left the room and laughed at you. She probably told all her friends about the “goofy old broad” too. Kristen, Dan, and gdad are probably about as “cool” as you. The kids laugh at you and your 60s BS. Old white liberals are a joke.
“They are also in the early stages of starting two businesses…”
Really? Do they want to make money with those businesses? If they do, they run the danger of becoming the 1%.
So they are spending all of this time protesting to raise taxes on their own businesses.Sounds like a shaky business plan to me.
I assume their “business” has competetors. Is the competition spending all of this time protesting in the park? Would you let me know what business they are in? I want to be in that business. I will go out, care for their customers while they are milling around in the park and very quickly take their business away. . Once their business is gone,then they can again wallow in their self pity, blame the “1% and go mill around the park some more.
How does standing on the sidewalk making a fool of yourself prepare you for a job?
Unless you’re applying for Liberty Tax Service.
Terps,
Are you saying that all, or even a majority, or business owners are in the 1 percent?
What I didn’t hear down in Elmwood Park was any notion of a United Nations plot to take over land use planning in Roanoke County, or how that was linked to the Bohemian Grove.
It was refreshing. . .
@20 LyndaK, first of all, I hope your blood test came back all good. Secondly, I understand your point about the messiness of revolt/change, etc. However, I disagree that OWS has nothing going for them and no advantages…they were essentially welcomed in most cities, communicated with on a regular basis by both the media and the local government. They were treated essentially respectfully (or at least that is my perception from the outside). They also have the advantage of actually representing the majority of working class Americans…though you’d never know it reading this blog. They aren’t a minority and the opinions they hold, even loosely articulated, are shared across the country.
@24 JackA If it weren’t for “old white liberals” you likely wouldn’t be able to spew ridiculous crap like that on a public forum…just saying.
Yes Dan…I guess to be taken seriously you have to go around yapping about how ICLEI wants in your refrigerator.
Ole David up there is right….the OWS are nothing like the nutty conspiracy-theory fixated TPs. And thank goodness for it.
Oh and “Jack in Albany”…pretty sure that if you’re old enough to consider a 25 year old a “young girl”, you’re as lot older than I am. At 25 I’d been independent for years, was married, living halfway across the country from my family and was getting ready for my first child.
I’ve got a few years to go before I consider a 25-year-old a “young girl”. Like….40 or 50.
No Dan, but all real businesses STRIVE to be the 1%. And the ones that make it, do so because they serve their customers the best. We all benefit greatly from the efforts made by people trying to become the 1%. Punishing them with even higher taxes is rewarding folks who do not serve their customers as well. And we all have customers.
“Come on red blooded american capitalists, lets chime in on this one”
Comment by David — December 6, 2011 @ 9:12 am
You know David every person I’ve seen bleeding, whether black, white, brown or yellow; whether they were Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist or unaffiliated; their blood was red.
Great story Dan, sounds like some folks I would like to meet. I might just have to take a Saturday off. Which I can do since I own the business…
That’s want you 1% wannabees don’t get. You’re in trouble just like the rest of us. Wake up before it’s too late and you’re sitting in the dark wondering…What happened to the power?
Being such a supporter of the OWS crowd, don’t you feel a bit ashamed for working for a big corporation Dan? And if you think about it, isn’t The Roanoke Times, in their continuous effort to sway public opinion towards a more Liberal agenda, part of “Big Clout” itself?
Of course it is.
Kristen, I ditto the fact that:
“Crimes committed include disorderly conduct, public defacation, vandalism, larceny, arson, child molestation, and rape. The OWS dirtbags have cost taxpayers $13 million nationwide in law-enforcement costs, tens of millions in property damage and business losses. The Port of Oakland shutdown cost $8 million alone.”
These idiots cost the 53% of us who actually pay taxes so much money.
Their first ammendment rights are null and void when they have unlawful public assembly.
If they want a rally or protest, go through the legal process of getting permits for land use and public assembly.
Plus…I still don’t understand what they are protesting to get!
Dan, you make some excellent points about how the Big Clout crowd has manipulated our lawmakers to their advantage. If all the “Joe Six Packs” out there understood just a fraction about the inner workings of Congress as they did about their favorite sports team or celebrity, we could make government work for US and not Big Clout. Unfortunately, you would be hard pressed to find anyone on the street that can describe any piece of legislation their representatives in D.C. ever voted for or against. You would be lucky to find a handful who even knew who represented them in Washington. Until the public gets educated, we will continue to get milked and frustrated.
#16 terps, a few days ago you assured us that Roanoke OWS-type folks were sleeping in the park, never showered and were leaving trash all over the place. Were you just lying then?
@ 28: Purveyors of that lunatic conspiracy theory will probably interpret the absence of it as evidence that it is being kept quiet and therefore is even more of a threat. Maybe the Tea Party will put the U.N. on double-secret probation in response.
#25 So, terps, when you say “spending all of this time,” please tell us exactly how much time these people actually are spending protesting. One hour a week? Two? Ten? What’s an acceptable amount of time for somebody starting a business? Are folks who are starting a business allowed to do anything other than business? And are they among the folks who are sleeping there and not showering?
Are you now joining the blog’s other infamous work hour nannies, like pammala, VRWC, and it who shall not be named?
BTW, I’m not at work right now, but I’m also not protesting, so you can relax. I’ll be doing some work later, though.
#24 Yes, Jack, I’m sure that the girl with the job that doesn’t pay enough to rent an apartment but who apparently supports the party that wants to raise her payroll tax so that she has even less money did laugh. Real smart girl.
BTW Dan, the Big Clout crowd isn’t free of liberal agendas. It would be refreshing to see you take a swing at one of your own once in a while. Just sayin’…
Jack from Albany writes, “The kids laugh at you and your 60s BS. Old white liberals are a joke.”
First of all, I am not “OLD”. Secondly, I was in elementary school in the 60′s…. hardly old enough to develop any political opinions.
One day, if this nation’s greedy, capitalist culture does not change, that young girl will remember me and wish she had heeded my advice… when she is working for $4.00 an hour, having no health insurance because it would cost her 70% of those earnings each year. (and also require a $30 co-pay for each visit) She’ll be living in a one room apartment with 2 kids. She will realize that had she spoken up or been involved, she would not be working 15 hour days, living in poverty, while the CEO of her company lives in splendor, on the backs of the workers in his/her company. Maybe she wouldn’t be paying her bank exorbitant fees upon fees just to have the privilege of a checking account. Maybe she wouldn’t have to watch as her elementary school aged children go to work every night, cleaning the very schools they attend during the day, just so they can afford shoes to wear. Maybe she wouldn’t have to also support her father, who has no pension from the company he worked for for 45 years and no Social Security or Medicare. Maybe she would be able to afford a car, or the gas to make it run instead of having to walk the 5 miles back and forth to work every day, because the public transportation budgets have dried up.
You think it can’t happen? Then you need to look at some of the things your GOP heroes are proposing. We will be there faster than Jack can jump over the candlestick.
They may indeed laugh, but when the truth hits home, they will remember that they were warned. If you are stupid enough to oppose the OWS movement (not the violence and outliers), what it stands for, and not realize what has happened to our nation, then you are stupid enough to be part of the final round of gathering and taking. Once you are dispensable, where is your value? If you think the Constitution protects you from them, you need to look at who gets elected and why? They OWN the Constitution. They OWN the Fed. They OWN Washington. They OWN you.
Having a job, being responsible and not “joining in” used to be protection from the consequences of bad governance, bad legislation, bad leaders and bad policy. That is no longer the case. Politicians (on both sides of the aisle) are bought and paid for. They legislate, decide rules and regulations, policy and every other decision for the 1% of this nation that can afford to keep them in office, and the perks of that position, few have left Congress less well off than when they came for a reason.
You can bad mouth the “dirty hippies” all you like and go ahead and support the handmaidens of the Plutocracy but do not blame us when that crashes around your ears or those of your progeny, because there is never enough and you only make it easier by helping them.
People here talk a good game but they are no more in the 1% than I am, and I assure you I am not. The 1% does not blog, they do not advertise, they do not schmooze, they do not flash and dazzle, they rob you and this nation blind and convince you that when their leg is raised it is raining “opportunity”. They want you to believe it is “welfare” and Social Security, people who won’t work, big screen TV owners, folks in the hood, that are destroying this nation and like ignorant sheep you believe them.
Many in the OWS movement have more knowledge about this nation in their pocket than you do in your entire closed mind and it is killing this nation as you support the devastation because you don’t “like” me and my “bleeding heart”. People in hell want ice water and someday you might want a “bleeding heart” to help you out too.
“The true friend of property, the true conservative, is he who insists that property shall be the servant and not the master of the commonwealth; who insists that the creature of man’s making shall be the servant and not the master of the man who made it. The citizens of the United States must effectively control the mighty commercial forces which they have called into being.
There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will be neither a short nor an easy task, but it can be done.”
~Theodore Roosevelt
Adam Smith knew that greed was too powerful to leave unchecked, our original founders did, our law makers did, why don’t you?
Terps- I operate my own business and now a lot of other people that do the same…Trust me, none of us feel that we are running the danger of becoming the 1%.
Suzie and others,
Even if I were inclined to agree with your point of view, your flaming of people on the internet only makes you look pompous and disrespectful. If you wanted to have a debate about whether or not OWS is a positive movement I’d be happy to have that with you, not only because this kind of dialogue is the purpose of OWS, but because our politics are always improved when people from different perspectives are able to come together and discuss how it came about that they see things so differently.
If your purpose is to simply shout others down, call them names, and generally be a jerk than you absolutely have a right to do so, I just feel bad that you would be inclined to treat others so badly.
As for the article I thought it was very well-written and tried to convey that contrary to some media perceptions our local Occupy movement is busying itself with helping those that are in need. Honestly, I don’t think anyone here would have a problem with people getting together to help feed and clothe people that are in need (perhaps I am young and naive to think so).
As Dan pointed out, we aren’t a bunch of scum just defecating on the sidewalks or hippies just smoking pot in a park. We are American citizens attempting to help our neighbors and to bring to the forefront political issues which we feel are negatively effecting us.
I am a proud member of Occupy Roanoke. I consider them my second family and gladly spend my weekends with them trying to make Roanoke and our country a better place. I don’t see anywhere in this that makes me anti-capitalist or anti-God. I can’t speak for everyone, but my personal opinion is that capitalism can be a good thing so long as the government makes sure that certain basic standards are held (like making sure companies aren’t lying, some basic level of safety is in place so that people don’t get hurt, and that there isn’t an unfair bias towards certain corporations — as we have seen in the recent bailouts). If that makes me a communist in your mind, then you should probably take another look at what Marx is saying. As for the God portion, I think it shows a sincere amount of intolerance on your part to suggest that people who lack religious belief are bad people. I have known many atheists that were genuinely good people, just as I have known avidly religious people who are bad. I don’t think religious affiliations necessarily make you a good or bad person. It’s your actions that determine that. I say this because although I attend a church fairly regularly in addition to attending weekly services at school, I don’t necessarily consider myself a “religious person”. I really value religion and think it is something that has been beneficial to a lot of people, but historically speaking there has been some major issues. Again, I don’t judge people based on single issues like political or religious affiliation — just as I wouldn’t judge someone based on race, gender, or sexual orientation. The world, and people specifically, are much more complicated than that.
I guess in closing, if you want to draw anything from this it is that I encourage serious dialogue and debate, but simply calling people names or hurting their feelings is not really appropriate. I think if we really do want to make this world better whether we are Republican, Liberal, Democrat, Conservative, Libertarian, or whatever the best way to do it is through our interaction with others. Show a little compassion and thoughtfulness and it will come back to you ten fold.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and a special thanks to Dan Casey for writing the article and taking the time to speak with us this weekend.
Dan, thank you for taking the time to come out and visit with a group of our local occupiers. It is important for people to understand that while there were 35 present at this particular time, there are hundreds of regulars actively participating in the local movement and 1400 members of the Facebook group. I was there earlier in the day and it was my fifth time out to the park. We truly are a diverse group with busy lives and responsibilities. It’s silly to think we are anyone but your neighbors, friends and people you go to church with. I am a manager for a local non-profit. There are therapists, teachers, students and a diverse group of local business owners among many other things. And, why should it be surprising that there are also some unemployed among us as well? We are all struggling to bear the burden of depressed wages, astronomical insurance costs for ourselves and employees, rising food costs, the fallout of the mortgage crisis and oppresive unemployment. We just happen to understand and believe that there is something we can and should do about this as a community. This is not about shirking responsibility, it’s about taking it head on and creating real solutions for the issues we face. Something our leadership has failed to do on a National level for generations. We can continue to sit and place blame back and forth, or we can understand that the problems with leadership are systemic and above all it is a societal problem because we have and continue to sit back and let this corruption go unchecked. If you agree with this sentiment, there is a place here for you.
The Occupy movement is not protesting capitalism, they are protesting the corruption of capitalism. What makes anyone think that a corporation should be recognized as a person with free speech rights? A corporation is made up of real, living, breathing people and those are it’s voice, it should not be able to hire lobbyists and donate millions to a campaign. I don’t know why anyone wants politicians that have been bought, maybe they should start sticking company logos on the back of their suits?
Also, if you think you can believe what you see on the news about the Occupy movement you are insane. Most of the news programs in this country are owned by a huge corporation. The Media business is basically a monopoly, with a few huge corporations owning just about everything- and those corporations (which we have allowed to be recognized as Persons with Free Speech rights!) have political agendas. You don’t have to like the Occupy people, but why spew hate when most of your accusations against the movement come from sources that would like nothing more than to sweep this movement under the rug and continue buying our government out from under us? Our nation was founded with the words “We the people” and we people should fight to keep the government as a government accountable to the people and not large corporations!
@35 Michael, there are plenty of people at corporations that are middle class or below. As a matter of fact, MOST of the people that work for corporations don’t make much by comparison to the big cheeses. I’m not sure what your point is.
And honestly, aside from people that just believe anything they are told (well represented here on the blog, I might add), there is no single agenda that fits the regular ole American who thinks for themselves.
Re: David’s post: “These idiots cost the 53% of us who actually pay taxes so much money.”
Yet another fraudulent restatement of a favorite (and fraudulent) GOP talking point.
Everyone pays taxes — Social Security, sales, excise, fuel, etc etc etc.
If SOME don’t pay federal income taxes, it’s because the GOP engineered the income tax system so that it would be that way. Or, it’s because they have no income.
Does it gall you that the government can’t squeeze income taxes out of people who have no or too-little income, David?
I hope you get into the 1 percent, Brendan. Then, I hope Congress raises taxes on you. I’d like to be in that situation, too.
gdad, let’s see your proof that the girl doesn’t make enough to pay for an apartment. You do have proof don’t you? Or are you a liar? If you don’t answer we’ll know the truth.
Kristen you might not consider 25 “young”, but I’d bet 25 isn’t half of your age.
Jaymes, you could help more people if you stopped sitting on your ass in the park and got another job on weekends. Donate the money or go do work for people who can’t, carry out their garbage, or whatever. Just don’t sit smugly in the park claiming to help others. You’re not doing anything useful.
There is “Big Clout” that is all about greed and taking care of themselves and there is “Big Clout” that still cares about the nation as a whole and even when it is against their own interests does what is right.
Most Newspapers/Media, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, George Soros, wealthy and powerful Liberals, many (though not all) Democrats and even some Republicans (virtually no Conservatives), get that there is a tipping point and that there has to be balance.
The scales have been tipped and the working and middle class are losing and falling into the same poverty that was reserved for the disabled, elderly and yes, lazy people who cheat. What about that system is appealing to any of you?
You can buy into blaming the wrong people for only so long. Welfare and decent wages/benefits did not drive jobs overseas, profits did. “The root of all evil is the pursuit of money”, there is a reason that is an old adage. Liberal ideas and seeing to the “general welfare” of this nation did not drive the debt cycle more than the industrial war machine, unfunded wars and unwarranted tax cuts did. Special interest lobbyists that write legislation, wine and dine and insider trade with Washington are not “tree huggers”. You people need to look past the blinders you so willingly put on because you believe us to be Godless heathens out to abort your babies and make you recycle while supporting a crack head. Yes, you sound almost that silly!
#46 “If your purpose is to simply shout others down, call them names, and generally be a jerk than you absolutely have a right to do so,…”
You catch on quickly, Jaymes.
Brendan
So, you run a business and you “are not in danger of becoming the 1%.” Why? Is there something wrong with growing by serving your customers well?If you are not interested in growing, I can promise you your competition is.
Why not grow your business so that you can support your own needs so that those of us who are attempting to grow don’t have to support you?
David, the last line of your most recent post is the only one that makes any salient point. The fact that you don’t understand something reflects more on you than on anything else. Why don’t you read from the Occupy people posting here and learn something about them? Newsflash to all of you obsessing about the “public defacating”. It doesn’t matter. Stop repeating it.
And please, stop with the “I ditto” inanity. Seriously, it’s embarrassing to read. Also, a few links to that “child molestation” charge might be informative.
Miriam, I think you meant most of that first part of your post to be to me, not LyndaK (except for the blood work part).
“They also have the advantage of actually representing the majority of working class Americans…though you’d never know it reading this blog. ”
Yes, they do…although you’d never know it by reading ANYTHING. There’s nothing out there to indicate that the positions the Occupy people hold -as articulated by the people who are posting here from Roanoke even – are positions that would be beneficial to the overwhelming majority of the population. Including each and every single one of the people on here talking ignorant smack about them (and you know who you are, and you’re not the 1% on your best day). Why is it that that point has been so obscured?
Why are we not simply told that the Occupiers are there making personal sacrifices and taking personal risks to effect change that would benefit us all? Yes, all of us. All. Of. Us. If you’re not including yourself in that group, you’re either delusional or have no idea what’s going on.
The press is presenting the Occupy folks through the Big Clout prism. They can’t help it.
Dan
So you want to punish Brendan with higher taxes for attempting to grow? And, presumably, we should reward those who do not attempt to grow with lower taxes?
With policies like that, we will wind up with people milling around parks looking for handouts. Oh wait, thats what we got with OWS.
“I’d bet 25 isn’t half of your age.”
Unless Kristin is exactly 50 (I don’t know how old she is) that’s a pretty darn good bet, Jack from Albany.
Seriously, you ought to give huge odds on that one.
Sandi – I’m not a scared little mouse who thinks the government protects me and I’m not willing to give up one freedom for the protection offered. If you are, and from what you write, it’s obvious you are, you shouldn’t vote. Stay out of the way, people like you have screwed up enough.
Linda k, there is a name for people like you and Sandi – Useful Idiots. And you are. Fellow Travellers is another. None of you believe in freedom and you worship politicians who promise to protect you and care for you, who at the same time spend money on themselves that would save millions. Watch what they do, not what they say.
By the way, folks, before the collection they took up at their meeting on Saturday, the Occupy Roanoke treasury stood at $10,553.
Of that, $10,000 came from an anonymous donor. And because Occupy Roanoke is not (yet, anyway) a registered tax-exempt nonprofit, nobody’s getting a nice tax deduction for that gift.
From this, I think it’s safe to assume that not all of the 1 percent are die-hard members of Big Clout, and not all of them lack sympathy for the Occupy cause.
“ditto” – never heard or read anything starting with that was worth reading… LOL
Jack would actually lose that bet….25 is a bit more than half my age. Doubt it’s his first loser. And Jack, FYI…you should be more polite to me. After all,someone’s got to be working to pay for your Social Security.
Jack, you come across as a typical mediocre middle-aged guy whose life has passed him by…maybe your wife ditched you for someone a little more pleasant, maybe your kids don’t have much interest in spending time with you. So now you spend your time resenting younger, more energetic people who have the energy and commitment to get out and agitate, educate, and demonstrate for what they believe in. People who still have a future. People with something to shoot for.
It’s not healthy to marinate in such bitterness, seriously.
I wouldn’t mind at all Dan… and I wouldn’t mind paying a little more into the system that helped me get there either.
Terps you seem to have a distorted view small businesses. I assure you I am the operator of a “real business” but of all things I want to do, and strive for, with my business I don’t think being in the 1% has ever crossed my mind. While I can’t speak for all businesses owners I can be fairly certain that I’m not alone.
If anything income has ranked fairly low in on the list of objectives. Flexible hours, control over my own accomplishments, spending time with my family and being home with my child have all come before profits many times.
#52 Jack, I have no proof AND I’m not lying. I was merely speculating based on average salaries for young blood techs, particularly around here. As for your own speculation about Kristen’s age, I know approximately how old she is because I happen to know the age of her oldest child and because she just said she was getting ready to have her first child at age 25. So let’s just say it’s a good thing you didn’t really put up a “bet.” Does that make you a “liar”?
Hey Jack from Albany, do you remember a great, old-timey bakery in Albany called Swan’s? (At least, I think that was the name). They were open back in the late 70s. It was an amazing place.
It sounds like Jack from Albany is pining for the good old days of Sen. Joe McCarthy from Wisconsin.
#64 I find it strange that virtually every time we discover that a liberal who post here has his or her own business, right wingers start questioning whether it’s a “real” business or start belittling the unknown business as pipsqueak or somehow inadequate. Weird people.
Terps I don’t measure growth and success in dollars.
You may, and admitting that speaks volumes about the person you are.
Are suggesting that we reward people that are greedy, and love money, with lower taxes? If you get what you subsidize, why give tax breaks to people who hoard money? Shouldn’t we encourage people to work hard and contribute and participate to their community and give back by lowering their taxes and increase taxes on people who keep large percentages of their wealth to themselves?
Hate to break it to you Kristen, but Jack doesn’t need social security and isn’t close to old enough to get it. I don’t rely on others for my support and if I did, I wouldn’t sit or stand in a park and cry. I’d be working hard to become independent. I don’t have any of the problems you listed, (probably from your own life)and if I ever do, I’ll do something about them. It won’t involve crying, complaining, or whining.
I do like young energetic people, the people of the OWS crowd are not energetic, they are slugs. Too lazy to take care of themselves and looking for an easy way out. They don’t deserve any respect.
The Occupy folks wouldn’t tell me the name of the benefactor who gave them $10,000. But I’m pretty certain of that person’s identity. And it would surprise terps, I’m sure.
Dan…I bet we have a 1%er here who’s a secret Occupy supporter….the only way to explain that $10K check.
C’mon now terps….own up.
Brendan
Fair enough. If you run a business and income is “fairly low on your list of objectives”, thats fine. Someone else will service your customers. But please, do not expect those of us who are working harder to provide you benefits that you are not willing to provide for yourself.
Looks like Albany is missing it’s village idiot.
..and the whinefest spreads, curious how long this one will last
You can tell when the truth hurts, they get all psycho and demand their freedom and rights while wanting to deny you yours. How very Fascist of you.
From Adam Smith on, sane people realized that if you do not control something as strong as greed it will control you. You all prove it while calling other people “idiots”. If being wrong does not bother you, your showing it to us does not bother me. Talk about your “useful idiots”, you need to look into a mirror. You think you are “free”? You think you are “independent”? You think your success is all up to you? Wow, you aren’t even useful, except to those selling you crap and getting you to believe it is Shinola.
@57 – Kristen, you are right…I was responding to you and just combined you and LyndaK there for a minute. Hope you all enjoyed your sinful union and I hope I didn’t make hell an inevitability for either of you.
You and I must listen/watch different news coverage. I have found the news coverage to be fair and pretty extensive. The reason no clear message has come through is because (as we’ve discussed on another thread), one hasn’t truly evolved out of OWS yet. There is general outrage over many issues and I don’t believe it has synthesized into a clear and cohesive list or whatever. I also think the various protests have gone on longer than the local governments and folks working near them would have wanted mainly because they know the OWS folks are representing just a ton of us…and those localities really don’t want all of us showing up. So, all things considered, I’ve found the coverage fair and in-depth.
But of course I listen to NPR. (Waits for the backlash about the liberal media from some of the folks here.)
“I don’t measure growth and success in dollars”
Brendan, if you are a monk…you are successful.
If you are in business, you are a failure. It’s that simple. Anyone who does not get this point, has never run a business.
It is sad that so many of your posts admit that someone is anathema if they do not worship money and aspire to greed. You cannot grasp that concept. How sad and telling. Plenty of liberals and Democrats are wealthy, run businesses and have made great success with their lives and have helped many people do the same on purpose. You cannot comprehend a George Soros being obscenely rich and still using his money to fund pols who would hamstring his business model and take more of his money in taxes.
They even betray that Bible they were thumping just yesterday.
“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Timothy 6:10
If you people think there is no problem, you have an even bigger problem and denial is more than a river. GO OWS!
Brendan, your values (both as a capitalist and as a parent) are an inspiration.
Adam Smith, the philospher/founder of capitalism, absolutely believed that the government HAD to regulate the markets, because unregulated they would engage in noncompetitive practices that were to their advantage.
Do y’all self-styled, “free-market,” no regulation folks get that? Smith said REGULATION WAS NECESSARY to preserve capitalism.
Because, he wrote, capitalists ALWAYS aspire to be monopolists, and they ALWAYS need to be checked at that.
” I hope I didn’t make hell an inevitability for either of you.”
For my part, no more so than before.
Dan
It brings me great pleasure to finally agree with you on an economic issue. Thought it would never happen.
I have felt the sting of dealing with a monopoly in my business. I despise monopolies, but for different reasons than you. You are concerned that someone, somewhere is making too much money and I could care less about that.
Monopolies raise prices and lower quality. This does not serve customers well. That is my beef.
Interestingly, the government promotes the monopoly I have to deal with. The government seems to get everything backwards.
terps,
Yet, you are in business, serving customers, more efficiently, with higher satisfaction, and making money.
How is it that said monopoly hasn’t put you out of business?
Jack from Albany writes: “None of you believe in freedom and you worship politicians who promise to protect you and care for you, who at the same time spend money on themselves that would save millions. Watch what they do, not what they say.”
I think you should turn these words back on yourself, Jack. I worship no politicians. Nor do I worship bankers, or corporations, or mega-churches… many of which seek to make their way by using the money, skills and energy of others.
There are those of you who speak about corporations providing goods and jobs and how if they disappear, there will be no jobs or goods. If you look at the “Kings” of layoffs this year, you might see that those corporations that you hold in such high esteem, seem to value CEO pay over worker stability.
Sears Holding Corporation announced the layoffs of about 700 workers. Sears Holdings Corp.’s interim CEO W. Bruce Johnson, received compensation worth $5.3 million in 2010, more than triple the prior year.
Gannett Co.announced another 700 employees will lose their jobs. Gannett disclosed that it paid Chairman-CEO Craig Dubow $9.4 million last year — double his 2009 pay. COO Gracia Martore got $8.2 million — more than double her $4.0 million in 2009.
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said in July it could cut roughly 1,000 jobs. Goldman Sachs almost doubled the pay package of its chief executive, Lloyd Blankfein, to $18.6m.
Boston Scientific Inc. announced plans to trim an additional 1,200 to 1,400 employees through the end of 2013. This is at the same time the company is expanding its China workforce. They paid CEO Ray Elliott a total compensation package worth $4.7 million last year — down 86 percent from the $33.4 million package which welcomed him in 2009. (That’s more like it!)
Lockheed Martin Corporation announced in June that it was shedding about 1,500 workers. Robert J. Stevens, CEO, received 2010 compensation worth $19.1 million, 7 percent less than in 2009
Delta Air Lines Inc. announced that about 2,000 workers have accepted voluntary buyouts. Delta paid its top executive, Richard Anderson, $8 million in total compensation in 2010, down slightly from the previous year.
Research in Motion Ltd. “headcount reduction” will amount to about 2,000. Michael Lazaridis, CEO, was compensated with a package worth $5.1 million.
Cisco Systems Inc. has recently announced it would lay off 6,500 employees, but that number could climb to as high as 10,000. Poor CEO John Chambers, even saw his total pay package drop this year to 32 percent to $12.9 million. What a shame.
Merck & Co. most recently cut 12,000 to 13,000 jobs. Former Merck (MRK) CEO Dick Clark’s compensation rose 55 percent to $25 million in 2010… on top of this, he is expected to receive pension payments of $33.3 million and deferred compensation of $15.8 million when he retires this year.
Borders Group is now bankrupt and more than 10,000 workers have lost their jobs.
HSBC Holdings plc is aiming to reduce its headcount by around 5,000. The total reported job cuts was actually put at 30,000 over the next 3 years. HSBC wants its investors to pony up $22 million for its CEO, Stuart Gulliver.
Does this seem fair to anyone here?
No one is saying that profit, or wealth is bad, evil or wrong. We are not talking about being successful and employing people, making everybody better off. We are talking about using that profit and wealth to write the legislation that allows those monopolies, that undercuts your competition, that favors you OVER the little guy and every other guy. That gives you breaks others do not get, that allows you subsidies no one else can gain. That fixes your tax issues and the rest be damned. This nation has done business that way, mixing politics into business and vice-versa for far too long and still you clamor for a “business person” to lead us like that is some kind of endorsement. Fox guarding the hen house is the real outcome.
Terps, do you seriously think that “government” is not “bought and paid for”? Do you still think they do things their masters do not approve of? Are you kidding us or yourself. “Government” is the problem when “government” only works for certain people and not the whole. Why is that so hard to understand? If welfare and special treatment for the poor bothers you, welfare and special treatment for the rich and powerful should send you off the deep end.
Art, wherever you are from, that village will always have one.
Comrade Sandi, sorry I don’t need the Oprah crowd or any other whiners. It speaks volumes about you that you consider people who want freedom to be psycho. I suppose freedom for you would be total support from the state, no work, just collect? You must be the only Soros supporter in the world?
Dan, too young for anything in the late 70s, I’ll ask my parents about Swan’s, they’re almost as old as Kristen.
Terps- Anyone who measures growth and success in dollars is greedy or as some might say…a money whore.
Lynda K,
I’m sure those execs think those millions are great salve for the guilt they incurred by laying off thousands. Or I dunno — maybe it was glee.
Dan
I succeed because they are an incompetent monopoly.
I think we all know now that terps is NOT Stan Seymour.
#88 And I wonder why it’s always the right wingers on this blog who seem obsessed with age and seem to make fun of or denigrate posters older than them. Very strange. As I said to one of them one time, it’s weird that you would insult that which you hope to be one day — an older person.
This one’s more accurate than Ron’s:
A tea partier came into a room with six OWS dirtbaggers. The tea partier brought in a dozen cookies he had made and gave each of them one apiece. After grabbing their cookies and gobbling them down, none of the dirtbaggers thanked the tea partier, but one of them did say “Why the hell do you get six and we get one?”
Yes Jack from Albany, it is so much easier to hide in the safety of anonymity and attack people. So big of you.
You are only kidding yourself, you are a hamster on a wheel too. You are not free, you are not independent and you did not “get there” by yourself. It does not happen that way.
I have been working and paying taxes since 1976, I am a liberal and rightly called a “bleeding heart” but I am not whining, I am telling the truth, and I am not hiding from exposure. I have never asked for anything from anyone that I did not return in full. So perhaps you should stop proving what you don’t know and tell us why you defend such a corrupt and rigged government colluding with business to run this nation for the benefit of one sector? Greed has become a goal. That does not serve God, mankind, the planet or either political party and it is not what the Founding Fathers wanted for America. Benjamin Franklin did not say, just another Plutocracy if you can keep it!
And a very dumb one at that Gdad! Go figure?
Been working since ’69 (paper route) and paying taxes since ’72.
Right: I never paid federal income taxes on my paper route profits.
That makes me one of the 47 percent WHO DON’T PAY!!!! or WHO HAVEN’T PAID, I reckon.
Jack from Albany needs to look in the mirror if he’s looking for useful idiots. OWS are patriots who are sick of being abused by the extreme wealthy in this country and have realized their elected government has no intention of helping rectiful the situation. So, it’s time to hit the streets. We have been taken for granted way too long. The winds of change are blowing strong.
I intend to be on the right side of history and I stand proudly with OWS.
Jack sounds vaguely familiar.
“Their first ammendment rights are null and void when they have unlawful public assembly.”
Quote of the day.
99.Jack sounds vaguely familiar.
Sneakin’ ’round the filter. I’ll fix that!
Art…mega dittoes on his sounding familiar. He seems a little too “informed” to be new.
Quote of the day too.
We should understand his limited perspective, and adjust his credibilty accordingly, when Jack From Albany says he’s “too young for anything in the late 70s” (4:01pm). That means he has not assimilated a lot of the roots of today’s world. Thus he freely admits he was not around to judge with an educated adult’s perspective many of the key strategic events that still shape our world, such as this partial list:
OPEC embargos and American vulnerability to dependence on Big Oil
Inflationary effects of dependence on Big Oil and underfunded warmaking
Impact of inflation on the domestic economy and international U.S. competitiveness
The trend to move manufacturing to non-union and/or offshore sites, the surging economies of countries like Japan, Germany, and Korea, and the resultant international trade imbalances and currency movements
The acceleration of American sprawl development and it’s conceptual export
Public disclosure of decades of U.S. government abuse: CIA murders, systematic privacy invasion by the FBI, gov’t secretly dosing citizens with lethal diseases and experimental drugs, etc.
Unintended consequences of imposing undemocratic regime change on other nations and using non-state actors to wage proxy wars
The murder of the U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, the secret directive by Pres. Carter to aid the Afghani resistance to the pro-communist Kabul government, and the subsequent Russian invasion that would hasten the fall of the Soviet state
The terrorists takeover of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, followed by an attack on the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan that killed four. French commandos were then allowed into Mecca to liberate the Grand Mosque from the occupying Saudi terrorists.
The tension between the clerical and secular sides of the Iranian polity, and Saddam Hussein’s Sunni power grab in Iraq
An enduring peace treaty accomplished between Israel and one of it’s moderate Arab neighbors
Chinese premier Deng Xiaoping’s modernization initiatives after surviving a conservative coup, and subsequent full diplomatic relations with the U.S.
The chain of events hastened by the smashed skull murder of activist Stephen Biko by racist conservative white police in South Africa
The first direct elections for the European Community (EC), while in formerly repressed Spain secular Democracy emerged
Panama given control of the Panama Canal from The U.S.
The emergence of narco-terrorists in Peru and Colombia
The Ixtoc Oil spill in the Gulf Of Mexico, the biggest oil spill in history until 2010′s BP Gulf spill
The worst nuclear accident in U.S. history at Three Mile Island
The spectacular success of modern vaccination science with the eradication of smallpox, and the emergence of newly recognized bacterial diseases like Legionaires, and viral ones like HIV
California voters approved Proposition 13, slashing property tax revenue by 60%, ushering in chronic budget crisises for the state
Pro-Catholic terrorists and Pro-Protestant militias murdered each other and many more innocent people in Northern Ireland
The Mormon Church finally decided that blacks were worthy of being able to minister to their white members
The power struggles within the religious hard right that led to the emergence of a group with the doubly inaccurate name The Moral Majority, and the related rise of campaigns for erosion of the constitutional divide between church and state in the U.S., with support for anti-gay bigotry and state control of women’s bodies as cultural litmus tests
The murder of openly gay San Francisco councilman Harvey Milk
In Greensboro, N.C., neo-Nazi’s and members of the Ku Klux Klan opened fire on a previously uneventful march and murdered five pro-Communist marchers
(For Dan)President Carter signed a bill allowing homebrewing of beer in the U.S.
These are only a few of the events of the late 70′s that Jack From Albany admits he hasn’t assimilated. And since the late 70′s also brought the first personal computers, he literally doesn’t even recognize what products of that era are right in his face. So unlike the many educated people his age and younger who DO have a sense of history’s continuity, until he has more knowledge of the events that still shape the world, it’s probably better that we only pay attention to his thoughts about video games and such.
For any TP/GOPer who is still able to “step back and try to get some nonhysterical perspective“, David Brooks again has the courage to tell the truth.
“…one major criticism doesn’t square with the evidence. This is the charge that President Obama is running a virulently antibusiness administration that spews out a steady flow of job- and economy-crushing regulations.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/opinion/brooks-the-wonky-liberal.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha212
Actually terps, “if you run a business and income is “fairly low on your list of objectives”, that’s more than fine. The flexibility and creativity that can give your customers and the pressure it can take off your employees is more than made up for in loyalty and appreciation. You assume that means that “those of us who are working harder to provide you benefits that you are not willing to provide for yourself” with no proof of that insult in evidence at all. There are people who have talent, or who chose a career they love who are very successful without chasing every dollar to the exclusion of anything, including profit..
#103 Warren, I thought it was sort of sweet that Jack from Albany was going to go ask his parents about the 70s.
I find it amusing terps is all for big business, unless that business is Carilion. He/she must be in medical supplies.
Warren
Thanks for providing J from A with an education. He apparently attended one of those right wing private schools for the uneducated and uninformed.
So the next day, the Tea Partier came in and having toiled extra time and earning more resources, brought in TWO dozen cookies and gave each of the six OWS fleabaggers TWO cookies apiece instead of one. Again, they snatched the cookies and greedily gobbled them down, and again not one of them thanked the Tea Partier for doubling their take. But one of them did exclaim: “Would you look at that? The bastard now has THREE times as many cookies as all of us put together. The disparity is growing!! Time for a revolution!!”
Brooks isn’t conservative. He supported 0bama is pro-abortion and trashes real conservatives. He works for the NYT. That says it all.
Do you hear that, Jack? They think you’re me. That means you’re cleaning their clocks and angering them with pure rational discussion.
Amazing how the truth has one sound, isn’t it?
Hillsdale College?
“No one is saying that profit, or wealth is bad, evil or wrong” posted by sandi
0bama is sandi, your idol, he has stated this over and over..are you deaf or that stupid
pammala,
Show us the actual quotes, in context, with substantiating links, in which Obama said profit is evil or wealth is bad.
Can’t do it? Thought so. . .
#113 Please provide some direct quotes, pammala.
Nice to have met you out there last Saturday Dan, and thanks for the kind words about our group. It’s wonderful to have a responsible journalist like you in Roanoke who actually took the time to meet us before rendering opinions, (unlike some of your peers and a few of the commentators here). One correction though, the very last part of the comments you attributed to me was not mine (the dog eat dog thing), though I do agree with the sentiment. (I’m not sure which one of us said it or I would attribute it to the proper speaker.)
Dave Gresham,
That part wasn’t in quotes. It was my interpretation of what you meant by the nation as a family. Sorry if there was any confusion with that.
(Nice to have met you, too).
Sorry, Dave Gresham, but it’s your party who has been in control of the process the last five years. You’re griping at the wrong people.
Pammala, like most of the haters and cowards here, hides in the protection of anonymity and posts dishonest, unfair and insulting post after post and anyone wonders what is wrong with this nation?
Obama is rich, he has rich friends and he has rich donors, there is no way he has ever said that profit, or wealth is bad, evil or wrong. That is the pejorative tint mindless right wing drones like you put on it pammala.
#113 Still nothing but crickets from pammala. Not surprising.
“There will be time for them to make profits, and there will be time for them to get bonuses … Now is not that time.”
“In Teddy Roosevelt’s era, President Barack Obama explained to the nation this week, “some people thought massive inequality and exploitation was just the price of progress. … But Roosevelt also knew that the free market has never been a free license to take whatever you want from whoever you can.”
0bama doesn’t think profits should be made all the time and thinks free markets (capitalism) is equal to stealing.
So sounds like Pammala is dead on while Dan and Gdad have once again made fools of themselves.
To Suzie (post #118). I’m independent. At all times, in all things. The rest of your comment carries its own antidote, as usual.
Dave Gresham, few, if anyone, pay attention to her here. The regulars know she’s a black hole of lies, distortions and partisanship.
Just an fyi.
(It’s funny when she makes a typo, though, then writes a misspelled correction and follows with an ungrammatical adjective — over 3 posts).
It’s funny when she makes a typo, though
It’s even funnier when Dan misspells “macaca’ and doesn’t even know it.