An ‘Instant Club Hit’ on the Friday drive-time tune
From the Dead Milkmen album, “Bucky Fellini.”
February 24, 2012 - 2:00 PM
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February 24, 2012 - 2:00 PM
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Sunday, May 26, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1405838&format=text
For you class warfare fans, check out the above. It’s the “makers vs. the takers.” When Ronald Reagan was President, only 15% of Americans failed to pay taxes. Now it’s 49.5%.
And guess what? The 49.5% are pissed off because they aren’t being given enough. The pitiful OWS punks have become a sad metaphor for the evolution of American dependency.
But terps you’re forgetting the 8,000,000 children who disappeared on April 15, 1987 when the IRS began requiring taxpayers to provide social security numbers for dependents claimed on the federal tax return. It is alledged to have been the largest mass kidnapping in world history.
I love that one Ron!
Terps, you have lost credibility so this is a moot point, but seriously, this is not about people wanting more or people who “aren’t being given enough”. There are legitimate things to discuss and debate, but if all you have is lies, right wing memes and stupidity to offer, what is the point of wasting time trying to discuss anything? Have you become Suzie and only troll here to stir up anger and spread ignorance? Why?
BTW Dan, no link, no video, no song…
terps – OWS is about the inequity of the wealthiest citizens and corporations not paying their fair share. I have asked you in the past, and you have never answered – are you a part of the 1% income, if not, why are you championing them? If you are part of that small group of uber wealthy, then I understand your harping on the OWS participants. If you are not, and you are constantly pushing the meme of capitalism religiously, why?
The TPs/RWers believe like you that “free markets”, stripped of all constraints [EPA, OSHA. EEOC etc] will take care of any and all problems that Americans may face. Everything was great in those “golden days” when capitalism reigned unfettered – back when the air stung your eyes, the rivers caught on fire, and the lakes produced three eyed-fish and stank of death. Those unfettered industries allowed men and women to work longer days with less pay – relief coming only when you were put in the ground– meanwhile the “fat cat” corporate moguls lived splendidly. A time when miners went down into the bowels of the mountains for low wagers, long hours and no health care – to eventually die of black lung leaving a widow and children to fend for themselves – no health care, no workplace protection, but plenty of money made by mine owners. Now we have over two-thirds of American corporations paying no federal corporate income taxes [*] while making billions of dollars of profits – maybe you don’t find that to be obscene, maybe you think deregulating and gutting worker protection is fine, maybe you think air pollution is a figment of scientists’ imagination, or that government hasn’t a role in protecting the working class from the more powerful and well -heeled. I don’t know – but capitalism, like any other “ism” without some controls to protect the citizenry, has not served us well in the past, and I don’t see how it would serve us well going forward.
[*] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/10/corporations-pay-no-tax_n_1196875.html
I never thought I’d long for the days when Carilion was terps only topic.
Now they have been totally replaced by OWS. By the way terps, what was it about that giant corporate octopus that stirred your ire so much while you seem to want to defend the rest of them to the death?
You know it’s Friday night and perhaps the weather in the Roanoke Valley is looking like you might want to spend to quality time outside. If that’s the case you may want to take a look at this great cup/bottle holder for your drinks. I think it would be a great addition to your outdoor gear for the summer. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcLwwRmfIRI
You all are great at name calling….but can anyone address the point. 49.5% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and the number keeps growing. The more it grows, the more the “takers” complain that they are not taking enough from the other half. Sandi, what is not “credible” about these facts.
terps,
First, I don’t think I called you or anyone else a name. Second, most of those who pay no federal income tax do so because their income is insufficient, according to the tax code written by Republicans & Democrats, to owe any taxes. Third, there are several hundred thousand of those who pay no federal income taxes, but who earn millions of dollars each year and pay no taxes because the tax code is written to permit them to not pay taxes. Fourth, there are countless corporations that also pay no federal income taxes because they have paid Congress to write the tax code in ways that permits them to avoid paying income taxes. Last, I’m willing to rewrite the tax code in ways that require more folks to pay a fair share of their income in taxes.
“You all are great at name calling….but can anyone address the point. 49.5% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and the number keeps growing.”
A confession here, folks: Guess what? For 2011, I paid absolutely NO income tax on capital gains. Does that somehow make be less worthy as a American? In addition to that, I paid hardly any personal property tax to the city of Roanoke. Does that make my vote worth less than terps?
terps, buddy, you’ve got to get off your high horse about about singling out certain taxes that (GASP!) don’t pay. I have noticed for a long time that you pay no cigarette taxes. In fact, a great percentage of the American public pays no cigarette taxes than pays no income tax. Where is your outrage for that one?
Oh, that’s right … no criticism from you one that one. You’re in that crowd!
Ron, terps and I have had the discussion before about wealthy people who use strategies to minimize their tax bills. He told me he is happy for them. No kidding.
On the other hand, when the discussion turns to somebody who is too poor to have any income tax liability, under the law as written by Republicans and Democrats, and signed by presidents such as Ronald Reagan and G.W. Bush, well that just makes terps furious.
Terps, when you don’t get it, you do it in neon, I’ll give you that. And you seem to be proud of it too?
Do you REALLY want to talk about why more people are not making enough income to even pay federal income tax? Do you really? Cause I promise, it is not gonna make conservatives look good.
“According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C., 46% of tax filers will owe no federal income tax this year. But when you figure in payroll taxes — such as those for Social Security, Medicare and unemployment — more than 80% of tax filers pay some kind of federal tax. And that doesn’t include sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, etc., which catch just about everyone.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/surprise-paying-federal-income-tax/story?id=14681815#.T0hGqYfy_FA
http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/02/21/youre-not-paying-the-tax-rate-you-think-you-are/
““If we’re going to have a society that is fair between rich and poor, we can’t leave vast parts of our society to suffer in a poverty trap, where young people grow up poor and then don’t have the means to make it into the middle class because they can’t meet college tuition, for example.”
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/18/141421746/income-disparity-and-the-price-of-civilization
Now, for the last time, this is NOT about “takers” and people wanting what you have. People want a fair chance and a job that provides them the means to make a living and support their family. I am sick and tired of you saying that people only want to take what others have when the truth is that the people who have been doing the taking are at the top! When most of the wealth is taken by 1% of the population, the economy suffers. If you want everyone paying all taxes, then pay them enough to achieve that goal…or shut up.
#8 terps – This is the explanation for the 46.4 percent of tax filers that will have no federal income tax liability written by Bruce Bartlett who “held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.”
For many tax payers, the earned income tax credit and child credit provided them with little or no tax liability on their income:
Those with incomes below $16,812 will have no federal income tax liability this year.
Three-fifths of those with incomes between $16,813 & $33,542 will also have no liability.
30% of those with incomes of $33,543 to $59,485 will pay no federal taxes.
And, of those with incomes of $59,486 to $103,464 – 7.3 percent will have no federal income tax liability.
There are 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million with zero income tax liability, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million with the same federal income tax liability as most of those with incomes barely above the poverty level.
It is not because of the earned-income tax credit or the child credit that the ultra-wealthy are paying no federal income taxes – it’s that capital gains are a huge percentage of their income and they may have losses from previous years to offset any realized gains this year or they chose to invest all their wealth in tax-free municipal bonds.
“The growth of the non-income-taxpaying population is largely a result of Republican tax policies. The earned-income tax credit is the main reason those with low incomes are largely exempted from federal income taxes. Originated by Gerald Ford, it was expanded by both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush as a better way to help the working poor than raising the minimum wage, which they believed would increase unemployment. ”
“During the George W. Bush administration Republicans added a large child credit to the tax code – the percentage of filers with no income tax liability rose…”
So you see, terps, this isn’t about slackers or “takers”, it is about the tax code…
The link
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-legally/
It’s one thing if half the filers pay no taxes, it’s quite another for them to claim the high-end payers aren’t paying their fair share and demand they do even more.
Third, there are several hundred thousand of those who pay no federal income taxes, but who earn millions of dollars each year and pay no taxes because the tax code is written to permit them to not pay taxes.
Why doesn’t Dan point out that Ron is making stuff up? I know he protects Ron and all, but his statement is clearly utter nonsense.
So in Suzieville, if you do not pay enough taxes you should not notice the favoritism some get and cannot speak about it?
And if you do not have children, you should not notice what pregnant women do and cannot speak about parenting, abortion or reproductive decisions?
Something tells me even you don’t want to live in your world.
You guys seem to miss the point in trying to by dyed in the wool RWers. Most of those paying no income taxes are paying payroll taxes because they work. Before Obama, that was just under 13% of gross income. Total salary! Compare that to Mitt Romney’s 14%. A wage earner making 100,000 is paying 13% vs Mitt making gazillions paying 14%. Compare those net take home pays. Yet there are many other in the middle class that pay not only payroll taxes, but also 28% income tax on their net taxable income. Their effective tax rates come closer to 35% if they are fortunate enough to own homes.
So the problem is not that people are not paying taxes, most all hold jobs (can’t get the EIC without a job), pay PR taxes, pay property taxes, pay sales tax, pay user fees etc. That is what makes tax free day the middle of May, when the average person has paid all his taxes for the year. Mitt on the other hand, can pay his taxes by the 5th of January.
If you believe that is fair, vote GOP until your broadened taxes make tax free day July 4th. Personally, I’d prefer Mitt and I work the same amount of time to pay our taxes, that seems fair to me and most of those in the Democratic party.
How about we stop spending on crap and cut everybody’s taxes?
No, I keep forgetting; results aren’t what’s wanted. The goal is to stick it to the rich no matter what.
15. Manic Suz – the Congress gives 49% of the citizens tax laws that prevent them from paying income taxes, mainly because they already pay a third of their income in other taxes to the state and federal and local governments. They are simply taxed out. The Government also provides considerable tax benefits and credits to business and to the wealthy. The carrying interest loophole is one of the largest government give away. Most of the benefits are meant to encourage a certain type of economic behavior from investing to getting a job. Yet some like carrying interest has no economic benefit except to reward the biggest Wall Street lobbyist Bankers. I agree with Mitt, pay all the taxes you owe and not a penny more. (not that he did). Its not the citizens who are wrong, it is Congress who has made the taxes so unfair, so economically stupid, and who refuse to make any changes except to want to make them more unfair. I am sure if your business is as successful as you blather, then you pay at least a third of your income in taxes of some type even if you take advantage of all business deductons Obama has given you. That means you work along with the other taxes almost 5 months to pay for government. Yet Mitt works almost none to pay his. If you think that is fair taxation, be a proud Patriot and pay up and quit griping about other people who do not believe that is fair.
Interesting article on this subject.
http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/02/21/youre-not-paying-the-tax-rate-you-think-you-are/
BTW terps, I am still waiting on you to explain how you pay a “40% whopper” in federal income taxes and where that “Free and unfettered capitalism” nation that “produces the greatest amount of prosperity and freedom” is.
…..did I tell you about the time I nearly got kicked out of grad school because of my, or lack thereof, writing ability. My older brother graduated Magnus Cum Laude with like a 3.92 in Chemistry. I graduated Magnus Cum LUCKY. My freshman year at the University of Tennessee was 1982 I graduated in 1989, do the math. It took an act of congress to get me in grad school in which I did manage to finish with a 3.9. Different perspective. Anybody seen Animal House, sort of a documentary on my undergraduate days. I was a lot more interested in my Fraternity and having a good time then school. I did manage to learn the importance of school by the time I entered graduate school. Plus I was paying or should I say my employer was and my career was on the line. I freely admit written grammar is not my strong point. One of the most successful guys I know in Roanoke had a GPA like mine < 2.5. I certainly don’t advocate the way I approached school and am trying very hard to instill a different perspective on my boy’s. Maybe this will help explain my numerous grammatical and spelling errors.
Dan
I to applaud anyone who , legally figures out a way to lessen their tax burden. It does not seem fair to me that high achievers should have to pay the majority of the taxes in this country, which they do.
“On the other hand, when the discussion turns to somebody who is too poor to have any income tax liability, under the law as written by Republicans and Democrats, and signed by presidents such as Ronald Reagan and G.W. Bush, well that just makes terps furious.”
So Dan, 49.5% of America is “poor”. Give me a break. Society cannot function when one half lives off the work of the other half by claiming poverty. Let the bottom 15% get tax relief, but all the rest should should contribute at least something. Having to debate that point is ridiculous.
Suzie Q,
Be specific, which stuff am I making up??? Inquiring minds want to know.
Class Warfare will start only when the Middle Class fights back!
Richard,
Would you mind explaining your 13% payroll tax calculation that the employee is paying?
I also have a hard time bucketing payroll taxes with income taxes, payroll taxes are essentially a pseudo, partially self-funded pension plan. My point is that these payments should be returned with a rate of return in the future.
Payroll taxes are not supposed to be used to fund general government obligations and services unlike income taxes.
You can argue the fairness of the tax structure all you want and if you believe the “wealthy” should pay more, that’s great. But the fact is you can tax income from individuals over say $1 million dollars at 100% and it won’t make a significant dent in the deficits.
While taxing the “rich” might be a good campaign slogan and rallying call, it won’t provide much help in fixing our problems.
Ron, those beer holders are great! Why didn’t I think of that?
#15 suzie’s outraged because it’s only tens of thousands of rich families that pay not income tax instead of hundreds of thousands.
How much in corporate taxes has Boeing paid in the past decade?
#6 And terps is so outraged by OWS he even had to make up stuff about the Roanoke folks. I understand that Dan finds him an enjoyable guy in real life, but, man, his posts on this blog are just sad stuff.
terp,
Based on the republican supported school voucher program most people in Virginia fall into the low income category. Perhaps Dan is not the person you should be questioning. The republican definition of poverty is much greater than 49.5 %
“The scholarships would go to students from families with household incomes within 300 percent of the federal poverty level.”
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/305065
“In 2010, Virginia ranked seventh among the states in per capita personal income, with $44,246 per capita income”
http://vaperforms.virginia.gov/indicators/economy/personalIncome.php
26. BM = the 13% PR tax is the employee’s and employer’s portion which we all know is included when calculating the hiring and wage of the employee just like any other employment cost. The employee would be paid a higher wage if all the taxes came from their wages.
As for this being used for the general fund,the US government has borrowed these funds for years to fund the general operating budget and now that we babyboomers are retiring, the general fund is having to pay back to loans. In reality, the taxes have always been used for the general operations and now will take back fro general operations. Different name of the tax, same use. Like having cash in each pocket and using it from both.
26. BM – it is the fairness of the tax laws that matter. When the middle class do not believe they are being treated fairly (and they are not), then they take actions that are harmful to society. You have riots (see Middle East and wall Street and Tea Party) do not trust the government and its institutions, do not believe that hard work pays off, no longer believe in the American Dream, and ultimately will destroy democracy.
It is not the dollars as much as it is the equity in the system and right now our system is extremely unfair.
Michael, I don’t understand how you can say, “It does not seem fair to me that high achievers should have to pay the majority of the taxes in this country, which they do.” It does not seem fair that the people who make the most money pay the most taxes? Really? So would it be more fair if the people who made less money paid more taxes and the people who made more money paid less taxes? Really? 10% of 10,000 is the same as 10% of 10 million? Really? You folks have a strange definition of fair.
Ron, those beer holders are great! Why didn’t I think of that?
Comment by Bill Perdue — February 25, 2012 @ 9:18 am
When I saw the video Bill, I was kicking myself for not having thought of it first. I could be retired by now.
“The employee would be paid a higher wage if all the taxes came from their wages.”
Richard,
That is an assumption and there is no guarantee that an employee would receive higher compensation if the employer were not required to pay half or more than half at the moment of payroll taxes.
Also regardless of that point, payroll taxes should not be thought of in the same light as income taxes. Payroll taxes come with a promised future benefit regardless of how the government uses the contributions. Income taxes come with no such promise either future or current.
“That is an assumption and there is no guarantee that an employee would receive higher compensation if the employer were not required to pay half or more than half at the moment of payroll taxes.”
What BM is suggesting here is that “corporations do indeed pay taxes.” This contradicts the long-held meme of the right that corporations pay no taxes — their customers pay those taxes in the form of higher prices.
#32 Richard J Beason, CPA posted “It is not the dollars as much as it is the equity in the system and right now our system is extremely unfair.”
Congratulations on bringing the concept to a simple premise that anyone should be able to grasp. It isn’t envy nor the amount the wealthy have in the bank, it is the inequity within the tax structure – and itsinherent unfairness.
Why anyone should believe that corporations making billions in profits, and have tax advantages that relieve them of all their tax liabilities, is absolutely beyond me. We would go a long way in deficit reduction if the government removed all the sweetheart deals and subsidies to corporations given at the expense of taxpayers.
@36,
Here goes Dan changing the subject and putting words in others mouths. Same thing he criticized Suzie for a while back. Oh well I will play along.
Dan I have never said corporations do not pay taxes nor is that an argument of the RW. However taxes, fees and increased costs of regulation surely gets passed along.
Lets take a little simplified example.
A company makes widgets and pays their employee $1.00/hr and the employee can make one widget per hour with a raw material cost of $0.10 and no overhead (to keep it simple for you Dan).
Without having to pay a portion of the OASDI or Medicare, the company has $1.00 in labor for each widget. The company sells the widget for $1.15 and has a cost of goods of $1.10, keeping a shiny nickel from each widget as gross profit.
Now assume the same company has to pay a portion of OASDI/Medicare at 7.65% so the labor now costs $1.07(assuming we round) and the materials are still the same (assuming the raw material supplier doesn’t pay OASDI/Medicare)otherwise the cost will increase.
Now the total cost of a widget is $1.17.
Dan, do you think the Widget Factory will still sale the widgets for $1.15?
Come on Richard you are a CPA. i know you underatnd that any money taken out of the business by employees or stockholders will be taxed.
35. BM – There most certainly is the promise of the employee receiving the benefit of the employers share of PR Taxes. It is part of hteir benefit package even if it is paid by the employer.
As to your premise that the taxpayer receives no benefit from income taxes, who does if not the citizens. All those services rendered certainly are benefits and safety nets. The tax may be called something else, but it is still a tax going to provide benefits as are RE tax, PPT tax, business licenses, Dog Tags, etc. You are stretching trying to make a poiint and you cannot.
BM,
The notion that “corporations don’t pay taxes, they merely pass the cost on to their customers” is an old RW talking point. Given some of the things you write on this blog, I’m not at all surprised you’ve never heard that one, though.
The much more recent RWer drumbeat to cut corporate taxes has largely supplanted that old bugaboo, however, because the newer one implicitly posits that STOCKHOLDERS are indirectly paying the corporate taxes.That’s the garbage argument the RW has made in explaining how Romney’s REAL tax rate is much higher than the 14 or so percent his tax returns show.
Beyond that, BM, your example is a silly one, and way too silly to bother answering, because it ignores the role the market plays in terms of pricing. Perhaps you’d like to try again. . .
“It’s one thing if half the filers pay no taxes, it’s quite another for them to claim the high-end payers aren’t paying their fair share and demand they do even more.”
This is spot on. If you pay on income tax, keep your fat mouth shut about wanting others to pay more. It’s just bad form. What would your mother think??
“Third, there are several hundred thousand of those who pay no federal income taxes, but who earn millions of dollars each year and pay no taxes because the tax code is written to permit them to not pay taxes.”
Allow me to translate: …..there are several hundred thousand obeying the tax code to the letter; just like the 47% not paying, they are obeying the law.
“Something tells me even you don’t want to live in your world.”
Great line, I’ll use it in the future. LOL
“No, I keep forgetting; results aren’t what’s wanted. The goal is to stick it to the rich no matter what.”
Very true.
Dan writes, “This contradicts the long-held meme of the right that corporations pay no taxes — their customers pay those taxes in the form of higher prices.”
That isn’t simply a view from the right, it is black-letter economics…a long-held view of traditional economists. Taxes are a cost of doing business, just like rent. It all gets passed on.
Dan writes, “because it ignores the role the market plays in terms of pricing.”
Oh, please, illuminate us.
Dan
Our company is a C corp and we pay dividends, on occasion. When we do the stockholders are taxed at 15%, but the dividends are not a deduction for the company. Believe me more than a fair share of taxes are paid
@41,
Dan,
You don’t attack my example because it is true and relevant to real life although simplified so even you can understand.
In your ignorance you say my example ignores the role of the market in pricing? I don’t think any company will stay in business for the long run when their costs exceed revenues.
That is unless you subscribe to government intervention and subsidies, but then that would not exactly prove your market pricing point.
That is why instead of trying to dispute the point, you again try to change the subject to a new or different talking point.
What do you suspect the Roanoke Times would do if the government imposed an environmental tax or fee on paper or ink used in newspapers and as a result the raw materials increased the cost to produce each paper.
Do you believe the Roanoke Times would be so nice as to not pass on the cost? Do you believe they are that financially sound as it is?
BM,
I attacked your example precisely because it’s irrelevant in a market economy. It might be relevant in an economy like the Soviet Union used to have. But, just fyi, we don’t have one of those here, (no matter how hard RWers try to pretend have had, since Obama was elected).
As for The Roanoke Times: It pays the payroll tax for its employees, and it is profitable. I hope you don’t find that distressing.
@49 Dan,
I don’t find it distressing that the RTs is profitable. They have incorporated the payroll tax into their pricing structure. My comment in post 48 spoke of additional and new taxes or fees.
Believe me I am glad the RTs can make a profit and doesn’t require you guys to take unpaid days off anymore.
My example was relevant and was simplified to prove that taxes or fees are factored into the pricing structure.
Please enlighten us on how cost of goods are not relevant in a market economy? In a market economy when costs of a product are above a market price then the business doesn’t succeed. That does not prove that a business does not pass on taxes and fees.
@47 Mr. Howdyshell,
You are right. Double taxation is the drive behind lowering dividend tax rates. Profits are taxed at the corporate level and then dividends are taxed at the recipient level.
That is depending on what tax bracket you are in, certain levels pay 10% or 0% on dividends. So it is not only the “rich” that benefit from a lower capital gain or dividend tax rate.
“Taxes are a cost of doing business, just like rent. It all gets passed on”. Then why whine about them so? If the company is not paying them, what possible difference could their rate/amount matter? If earrings can be sold for 50 dollars, and taxes ended tomorrow, would the price of earrings go down? Who is kidding whom?
If no one knows how companies, employees or shareholders take money out of companies without paying taxes on it, they are either dishonest or simple minded. Pardon me if we do not let companies decide their fair share.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all
Yes Big Momma, “the Widget Factory will still sale the widgets for $1.15″ because the factory is in China and the owners pay no “OASDI or Medicare” and probably no where near a dollar an hour either. See how that works? We will look good as China, is that what you are saying?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57378208-17/are-chinese-factory-workers-getting-just-$8-for-every-ipad-sale/
29. Michael Howdyshell – perhaps your company needs a new CPA id every dollar taken is taxes. Depending on your company’s size and profitability there are lots of ways to minimize the taxes on moneys taken out. for exanple profit sharing plans, deferred salary plans, ROTH 401(k)s, or perhaps if you are not too large a sub-s corporation. The lower tax on dividends is but one method Congress provides. However, the one thing that limits taking advantage of what Congress provides is cash flow. You have to have it to take advantage of the loopholes. Many small businesses simply do not have it compared to the wealthier businesses. Should only the wealthier businesses get the tax breaks?
51. BM – Just because small businesses have some tax benefits does not make the tax structure equitable. Obama has given small businesses some great tax breaks as had GWB. Does that fix the 14% rate Congress gave Mitt. The breaks given small business have been part of the stimulus package Obam pushed and the TP and GOP have griped about. In fact, the benefits given small business have kept many of them in business and have spurred many of them to invest in equipment and technology at a time when they would not have otherwise. A true stimulus. Face it, the tax code is not equitable and the plans of the GOP and TP will make it even less equitable. It is nothing new. Congress knows that the big money is increasing the tax on the middle class. Always has been. That’s why when I hear talk of broadening the tax base I know that is GOP speak for sticking it to the middle class again. It is time for the middle class to stand up and stop Congress from taking more and more and more.
50. BM-really, widgets?
@56 Yes Richard Widgets.
It was a simplified example. Notice neither you or Dan attack the example based on principal, only on the simplicity and the naming of a product.
@55 Richard,
The tax system is not equal for everyone and never will be. I don’t disagree with tax breaks for small business owners. They do drive new job growth.
Unfortunately I think you are right when you the middle class will be included in any future tax increases. There will be no way around it. Everyone will end up paying more in the long run, it is inevitable.
Big Momma you are preaching to the choir! Richard, we have a great CPA firm all they do is business’s in our industry our revenues are around 10 million, and yes there are certainly ways to minimize taxes but would it not be fair to all to lower to corporate tax rate for all?
BM 56. Sorry I did not read your Widget comments. When you said widgets it reminded me to much of College and I could not bear to read on.
57. Michael – Actually, I think it would have been better for the Country to have lowered Corporate Rates in 203 instead of cutting the capital gains and dividend rates. That would have promoted keeping business in the US and stopped the over payment of CEOs and management. It would also have encouraged growth and reinvestment in the businesses. For small companies like yours, government has done well in providing incentives like easier Sub-s treatment, greater depreciation writeoff, energy saving credits, and of course employment credits and lower PR taxes. They have saved a lot of small businesses. Unfortunately, tax deductions don’t help small businesses losing money from lost sales. Those companies continue to struggle if they are even still in business.
43 Phil, no one is accusing anyone of cheating on their taxes. The problem is the laws Congress has written, not the people paying the tax. There are those that stretch the laws like Mitt Romney that taken aggressive tax positions using foreign trusts to hide income. However, knowing the firm he uses for tax advice, (used to work for them) he has a good basis for taking that position.
The problem is simply the tax laws are not equitable. We all have twenty four hours in a day and most of us work for a living. Why should some work 50 days to pay their taxes and others have to work 146 days to pay their taxes. You might say, well the lower income person shouldn’t have to work as long to pay their taxes as they need the money to buy groceries. That makes sense, but still, they have the same hours inthe day as the rest of us, so why shouldn’t they pay an equal amount of labor days to pay their taxes?
Well actually, it is Mitt Romney that only works approximately 50 days to pay his taxes whereas it is the poor person that works 146 on average to pay his taxes. To me, that is blatantly unfair. You can argue that the poorer person does not pay income taxes all you want, but he does pay taxes to governments.
Richard,
Mitt Romney hasn’t worked in years. He’s been running for president since at least 2008.
I don’t mean to be critical of your comment, just saying he, by his own admission, hasn’t been gainfully employed since at least 2008 maybe even 2006. He’s probably been too busy taking care of his wife’s 2 Cadillacs.
Well actually, it is Mitt Romney that only works approximately 50 days to pay his taxes whereas it is the poor person that works 146 on average to pay his taxes. To me, that is blatantly unfair.
Christ, that’s a dumb comment. Romney worked smart and well for a number of years to be able to do what he wants now. It’s like saying retirees are “unemployed”. I’ll ask again, why would any person employ someone to do their taxes who deep down believes they don’t pay enough in taxes? I want an accountant whose heart, soul, and convictions are aligned with my goals.
I wonder if Romney’s reluctance to release his prior years’ taxes [he only released 2010 and a projected 2011 return] is because he either did not pay any taxes in prior years or his rates were less than his rates in 2010 and 2011 – 13.9% & 15.4%, respectively? link to rates:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-releases-tax-returns/2012/01/23/gIQAj5bUMQ_story.html
“In an attempt to stop a steady stream of bad press over questions about his income, assets and tax rate, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney released one year of his tax returns and an estimate for his 2011 tax returns on Tuesday morning [...]”
He would not promise to disclose any other returns.
“The returns show that Mitt and Ann Romney, who are worth from $190 million to $250 million, earned $21.7 million in 2010 and paid a 13.9 percent tax rate, lower than that of a person earning $50,000. The total amount the Romneys paid in taxes in 2010 was about $3 million…”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns_n_1225968.html
The Obamas paid $453,770 in federal taxes, for an effective tax rate of 26.3 percent.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/romney-tax-returns-to-give-view-of-family-wealth/
most ill-informed posted: “I want an accountant whose heart, soul, and convictions are aligned with my goals.”
The ones you want probably had their licenses pulled or are sitting in prison…
“Christ, that’s a dumb comment.”
And once again, Roanoke’s only perFect Catholic uses heR Holy Savoir’s nAme as a mere exclamation. Please explain how yoU can justify such Disrespect for the Holy Son of God.
62. Speaking of a dumb comment. If I did not know more tan my client I would not be worth much to them.
Are you saying that Mitt’s intelligence entitles him to a tax break? Santorum would not like that or go along with that and he is now calling Obama an intellectual snob. You probably wouldn’t go for that either. Me, I am an intellectual snob, so maybe I could go for that.
But really, do you believe a man like Mitt deserves to pay less tax because of the luck of his circumstance (and don’t go telling me his work and intelligence made him millions, if that were so there would be hundreds of thousands of billionaires)? He labors in his office or on his campaign. He hires others to labor for him. He should spend the same day’s labor in taxes as the rest of us. As for retirement, again we each labor or have others to labor for us, we each function through out each day using a citizen’s resources. Should Mitt pay less than a retired person because he was lucky enough to be successful?
65.“Christ, that’s a dumb comment.”
When she’s not getting enough shock factor to solicit responses from the regular stuff she says, she resorts to using her Saviour’s name to garner attention.
As long as we respond, she’ll keep posting.
62. Suz, I’m sorry I did forget to answer your question about hiring a CPA. Unlike a tax preparation firm that advertises they can save you more taxes than others, II tell my clients the truth. I will make sure they do not pay a dollar more in taxes than Congress has asked them to pay. That is all anyone of us can legally promise and is our legal responsibility as regulated by the Virginia Board of Accountants, the AICPA, The VSCPA, and the IRS. What I think or do not think about the amount of taxes anyone pays has nothing to do with my or anyone’s tax preparation and advice. I would even give you that advice. The only opinion that counts in my profession is whether it is legal or not and can it be supported in fact and substance. The true difference comes in knowledge of the law so that I can suggest ways to legally minimize taxes and support my reasons for such. My reputation in Roanoke is such that I am often called for advice by other CPAs and Tax Professionals, so I am not too concerned with whether you would hire me or not.
P.S. to Dan, sorry for the Professional BS on your site. I will ignore her incessant credential probing from now on to stop wasting your time and space.