2012.02.11
Delegate: ‘Do you agree choices have consequences?’
Del. Ben Cline, R-Rockbridge | RichmondSunlight.com
The quote above is from Del. Ben Cline, a Republican who represents parts of Rockbridge and Bath counties and the city of Lexington in the Virginia House of Delegates.
He’s the chairman of a subcommittee that torpedoed a bill Thursday that would have barred jail authorities from shackling incarcerated pregnant women during labor. (Sponsored by Del. Patrick Hope, D-Arlington, the bill allowed for certain exceptions for women who might run or harm themselves or others).
Jailers testified against it. Both the ACLU and the Family Foundation — two groups that often are on opposite sides of the fence — were in favor of the measure. Fourteen states and the federal prison system already have such rules.
Now, it’s hard to understand such a policy — or opposition to the bill, given the exceptions in it. As any woman who’s gone through labor — or any man who has witnessed it, could tell you — moms delivering babies don’t pose much of a flight risk.
The Associated Press had a good story on this in which mothers told horror stores of being chained in hospitals, while they delivered babies, over the objections of doctors and nurses.
Perhaps that’s why Cline seemed to suggest another rationale as his subcommittee made short work of tabling the bill. He made it sound like some justifiable extra special punishment, meted out to lawbreaking moms in labor.
From the story linked above:
Del. Ben Cline, R-Rockbridge and chairman of the subcommittee, replied: “Does it show concern for the child for the mother to engage in criminal activity when she knows she’s pregnant? Do you agree choices have consequences?”
Is there any other way to read that quote, other than that incarcerated moms in labor deserve to be treated as inhumanely as possible, because they had the temerity to get locked up after they were impregnated? He makes it sound as if the state should mete out an extra measure of cruelty because of a pregnant woman’s mistake.
It verges on a “revenge” theme. How despicable. Is that what criminal justice in Virginia has come to?
I am shocked — shocked, I say! — that a male Republican legislator would propose legislation that treats a woman with such depraved disregard for human decency!
Comment by Saintbridge — February 11, 2012 @ 2:50 pm
This is what you get when a guy four years out of law school and with a meager couple of years experience as an assistant prosecutor in a rural county becomes the majority party’s “expert ” on criminal justice issues. He also heads up the group in the House of Delegates who interview judcial candidates. Cline and his colleagues have turned that process into a cross between an inquisition and a carnival sideshow. The word reasonable is not in their vocabulary.
Comment by Non-Partisan Cynic — February 11, 2012 @ 3:36 pm
There are times when I disagree with a politician, and there are times when a politician is plain old evil. This man and that committee are vile.
Comment by Jason — February 11, 2012 @ 3:46 pm
It sure would be nice to see a little more grace being modeled by our elected officials
Comment by Albert Phillips — February 11, 2012 @ 4:25 pm
Cline’s bill to get rid of fingerprinting of CHP applicants is still alive. I give him credit for that.
Comment by John Wilburn — February 11, 2012 @ 4:50 pm
Don’t hold you breath on elected officials showing much grace anytime soon, Albert.
Comment by Ron — February 11, 2012 @ 6:19 pm
Cline represents his district well. He says and does exactly what they want. So sad.
Comment by Richard J Beason, CPA — February 11, 2012 @ 7:01 pm
The Republicans in this General Assembly, especially in the House of Delegates, have pursued the most anti-women agenda that this Commonwealth has seen in many many years. These are the guys of years ago whose philosophy would have been the way to handle women is to keep ‘em barefoot and pregnant. Women make up a majority of the population. It is hard for me to fathom why they are not rising up and voting en masse to throw these chauvinist creeps out of office.
Comment by dave — February 11, 2012 @ 7:17 pm
This from the “sanctity of life” crowd? Disgusting. A mind that thinks like that is no service to Virginia and I do not give a damn what other legislation the twit sponsors. You better hope the atheists are right.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 11, 2012 @ 7:22 pm
Give him credit for wanting to get rid of fingerprinting for CHP applicants? Another stupid move. Instead they should add a DNA requirement to the figerprinting requirement and require all registered handgun owners to provide a sample of a spent cartridge and slug for possible future identificatioon of weapons used in crimes.
Comment by dave — February 11, 2012 @ 8:31 pm
Cartidge and slug samples are A JOKE. Legislators apparently know as much about ballistics as you do and that is why we get these stupid laws heaped upon us; it shows the uniformed voter that they are offering bogus solutions… for the problems they have yet to find. Fingerprinting is just a way for the localities to make money. Only a third of them are printing now and there is no difference in crime-solving stats in the localities who do.
Comment by John Wilburn — February 11, 2012 @ 11:02 pm
I have transported pregnant female inmates, and seen that some would gladly endanger their unborn/newborn for a chance at freedom, or even just another cigarette. It may not be needed, nor even prudent, for most incarcerated females giving birth. But let’s not forbid it at the discretion of the officer or agency having custody! Labor can last two days, and I have met women who accomplished some extraordinary feats while clinically in labor. Running or fighting would certainly be possible. Don’t add punishment unnecessarily, but don’t require that escapes be aided either.
Comment by Yet Another John — February 12, 2012 @ 12:38 am
Yet Another John,
Your arguments are precisely why there were exceptions in that sensible bill. Which was nonetheless rejected. . .
Comment by Dan Casey — February 12, 2012 @ 12:47 am
I -ve had somne time to think of this..as I saw this
a few days ago.
The time leading up to the birth of a child in this
cold place should be held as something as quite special in
our world., As in life itself. There comes a time when
our weaknesses in how we all deal with the world should
take a back door to these special times.
Even in death a condemned person gets some special consideration.
Are we so callous as to taint that time of that that is sacred
and special to a person as to start this life off in such a punishing way.
There is no heart in some conventions. And as such we all suffer the sight.
Comment by Joe — February 12, 2012 @ 3:58 am
” You better hope the atheists are right.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 11, 2012 @ 7:22 pm”
is that what you’re pulling for sandi..did your muslim get to you or something
see above..sick sick minded, evil and sick, needs help desperately
Comment by pammala — February 12, 2012 @ 6:41 am
12
Good to see you again, YAJ. You always have something worthwhile to contribute.
Comment by Suzie — February 12, 2012 @ 9:18 am
Republicans in this General Assembly, especially in the House of Delegates, have pursued the most anti-women agenda that this Commonwealth has seen in many many years.
It makes me sick when liberal pukes sidestep the critical issue in abortion, which is the destruction of a human being. The part about anti-women is another crock, since the majority of Americans oppose abortions for convenience, which is the reason the vast majority of those performed. Frankly, it is anti-women to allow a minority of them to destroy their child.
I just get tired of leftwingers distorting the truth to suit their godless agenda.
Comment by Suzie — February 12, 2012 @ 9:34 am
As written, that bill would have forbidden restraints on a female prisoner who is one day more than three months pregnant. It does have language providing for exceptions, but my experience leads me to believe that the documentation required to make use of these exceptions would severely inhibit their use. It was poorly worded, and mostly unnecessary, and deserved to die.
Comment by Yet Another John — February 12, 2012 @ 10:44 am
A friend who works with assembly members every day has confirmed exactly what we all already know. Rethugs campaigned on jobs, jobs, jobs, and more jobs. And since they arrived in Richmond, they’ve done nothing but:
–Find new ways to restrict abortions (and birth control, if possible)
–Make sure more Virginians can buy more guns than ever
(I would add that they also have served up two sides — finding yet more ways to sidestep seriously addressing the state’s worsening infrastructure problem, which is essential for maintaining JOBS, and thinking of yet more fees to raise and more expenses to push off on localities.
Nothing about jobs. The Republicans in Richmond are worms.
Comment by gdad — February 12, 2012 @ 10:32 pm
gdad,
Not so fast on the Republicans and gun legislation thing. They successfully killed off some of the best stuff so that they wouldn’t have to vote on it and, therefore, not be accountable for that vote. State agency preemption (allows for campus carry), Constitutional carry (no permit needed to conceal), legally protected university faculty carry, and airport carry were all snuffed out by the Republicans. Yes, we’ll get one-gun-per-month repealed, but unfortunately the best stuff will be left on the table.
They’ll get a big “one gun per month repeal” headline to please the old Republican-voting, NRA member, mesh-backed ballcap wearing, old guys that congregate at Hardee’s at 6:00am, but the real gun rights activists are rightfully disappointed. Sadly, a lot of opportunity was lost this year on gun rights and other things.
I actually agreed with anti-gun Delegate Hope when he passed the airport carry bill out of subcommittee. He wanted the Republicans to have to vote on what they considered a controversial bill that they wanted to kill off in his subcommittee. Hope wanted them to have to put their name on a vote for all to see. I couldn’t agree more. If you don’t have the guts to vote, you shouldn’t be in the Assembly!
Comment by John Wilburn — February 13, 2012 @ 9:27 am
Yeah well, it makes me sick when conservative “pukes sidestep the critical issue in abortion”, which is the desperation of a fellow human being. It is so “anti-women” to claim “sanctity of life” over the fetus and decry and whine about the safety net programs that help a woman “choose life”. Hypocrisy, thy name is right-wing pro-lifers.
Another crock, is the fallacy that “the majority of Americans oppose abortions for convenience”. You have no basis in fact for that argument which is why it is steal legal and available. Not that you right-wingers will ever learn, but lip service does not count.
We all get tired of rightwingers distorting the truth to suit their Theocratic agenda, but it never stops you.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 13, 2012 @ 9:37 am
Here is “the wording”: Where is what you said Yet Another John?
Ҥ 53.1-1.1:1. Restraint of certain prisoners.
No state, regional, local, or juvenile correctional facility shall use restraints on any prisoner who is pregnant during labor, transport to a medical facility, delivery, or postpartum recovery unless the warden, superintendent, or jailor finds there is a compelling reason to believe that the prisoner poses serious harm to herself or others, is a flight risk, or cannot be reasonably restrained by other means. Such facility shall use the least restrictive restraints necessary on any inmate in the second or third trimester of pregnancy.“
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 13, 2012 @ 9:40 am
#20 Well, I realize they did kill off that stuff, John Wilburn, and it was obviously out of fear over the backlash they knew they would face. Still, the fact remains that they at least appear to have spent more time on guns and abortion than on jobs. And my friend confirms it’s not just appearance.
Comment by gdad — February 13, 2012 @ 10:06 am
It’s kind of funny that the House leadership created a Democrats-dominated subcommittee just to kill off bills that even the GOP could not stomach. And that one of the Dems on it voted to approve a particularly hot-potato gun bill, simply to make the GOP majority of the committee take a stand on it.
Comment by Dan Casey — February 13, 2012 @ 10:16 am
And I applaud Delegate Hope for doing so! I’d like to see all of them go for a vote. I’ve been able to see more of Sen. Edwards wishy-washiness, but some of the House Republicans has been successfully hidden this way.
Comment by John Wilburn — February 13, 2012 @ 11:21 am
“why it is steal legal and available”
it’s ‘still’, sandi dear, not steal
Comment by pammala — February 13, 2012 @ 11:50 am
LOL pammala lecturing on a typo…really? The grammar police want their squad car back! Thanks for the laugh. And yes, I did mean to type “still legal”.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 13, 2012 @ 12:18 pm
#26 OMG, look who’s correcting typos. And doing it while using incorrect punctuation. Pitiful.
Comment by gdad — February 13, 2012 @ 1:04 pm