Ladies night on the Friday OPEN thread
Shot by Dan on the City Market
“The truth does not require a majority to prevail, ladies and gentlemen. The truth is its own power. The truth will out. Never forget that.”
Rush Limbaugh
(Just don’t expect to ever hear it from him!)
April 27, 2012 - 10:00 AM
What do you guys think of the DMV revoking a license plate they had already issued: “FOSAMA”
Offensive? First Amendment?
Some cases I have found…
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Nonprofit organization of descendants of Confederate army veterans brought §1983 action against Virginia motor vehicles commissioner, seeking to enjoin enforcement of state statutory provision forbidding display of organization’s logo, which incorporated Confederate flag, on special license plates available to organization’s members. The United States District Court for the Western District of Virginia, Jackson L. Kiser, J., 129 F.Supp.2d 941, issued injunction, barring enforcement of logo restriction and requiring issuance of license plates with design sought by organization. Commissioner appealed.
The Court of Appeals, Williams, Circuit Judge, held that: (1) speech on special license plates was private, rather than government, speech for First Amendment purposes; (2) statute that authorized special plate for organization, but prohibited display of organization logo incorporating Confederate flag, constituted viewpoint discrimination in violation of First Amendment; and (3) provision of special plate statute prohibiting display of organization logo was severable from remainder of statute authorizing issuance of special plates for organization.
Sons of Confederate Veterans, Inc. ex rel. Griffin v. Comm’n of Virginia Dept. of Motor Vehicles, 288 F.3d 610 (4th Cir. 2002)
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Motorist challenged state’s ban on references to deities on personalized automobile license plates. On motorist’s motion for summary judgment, the District Court, Richard L. Williams, Senior District Judge, held that state’s ban on references to deities on personalized license plates for automobiles was viewpoint-based regulation of speech in nonpublic forum, which violated motorist’s free speech rights.
Pruitt v. Wilder, 840 F. Supp. 414 (E.D. Va. 1994)
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From CALIFORNIA:
Automobile owner filed petition for writ of mandate to compel Department of Motor Vehicles to issue personalized license plate bearing letters ‘EZ LAY.’ The Superior Court, Santa Clara County, James Duvaras, Jr., J., denied the petition and the owner appealed. The Court of Appeal, Taylor, P.J., held that statute permitting Department of Motor Vehicles to refuse to issue personalized license plate bearing a combination of letters or numbers with connotations offensive to good taste and decency imposed, at best, a minimal and incidental restriction on freedom of expression of owner and furthered a substantial governmental interest in vehicle identification; thus statute did not abridge owner’s right of freedom of expression.Affirmed.
Katz v. Dep’t of Motor Vehicles, 32 Cal. App. 3d 679, 108 Cal. Rptr. 424 (Ct. App. 1973)
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Also from CALIFORNIA:
Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) recalled license holder’s personalized license plates reading “TP U BG”, and holder petitioned for writ of mandate to compel DMV to return the plates. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BS009161, Ronald M. Sohigian, J., denied the petition, and holder appealed. The Court of Appeal, Spencer, P.J., held that: (1) statute permitting DMV to cancel offensive plates was not unconstitutional on its face; (2) statute was not unconstitutional as applied to holder; and (3) evidence supported DMV’s determination that the license plates were offensive.Affirmed.
Kahn v. Dep’t of Motor Vehicles, 16 Cal. App. 4th 159, 20 Cal. Rptr. 2d 6 (1993)
Jack, I just like personalized license plates period. So I think the should do away with them. Happy Friday!
Many of you are aware that I serve at a small college sponsored by an order of women religious. In my six years here I have learned much from them. This order came to the U.S. from Germany in the 1860s at the invitation of a local bishop to serve the increasing number of German immigrants coming to the U.S. In addition to serving immigrants, they built schools, hospitals, orphanages and developed many other ministries serving the poor in communities throughout the midwest. They provided basic health services, education and shelter to generations through those institutions. In the 1990s they sold their hospitals and created local health care foundations which enabled them to continue to provide basic health services to the poor and underserved. They accomplished that by working with Catholic Charities and other local service agencies in partnership. Where the college is located today is surrounded by a beef and grain farm which, using professional management, they use to produce beef and grain which is sold to produce income to support their service to the poor throughout the world. When the beef is harvested much of it is canned and shipped to their other ministry sites in Latin America and Africa to provide a food and protein source for the people they serve in those areas. The label on the cans of beef says it’s “Holy Cow.” These women religious with whom I work are the foot soldiers of the Catholic Church in America today. That is why I, along with many others, have difficulty understanding what kind of thinking underlies the decision to issue the statement that came from the Vatican in recent days. The article linked below shares the confusion I feel.
I can tell you that when I call on a prospective donor whom I know attended a Catholic school growing up, I always take a member of the order with me. It never ceases to amaze me the response I get from otherwise hard nosed business people when the nun and I walk into the office to make the call. Those individuals know the impact women religious made on their lives. Somehow, in my view, the women religious should be treated with more dignity and respect than is sometimes forthcoming.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patricia-mcguire/the-true-radicalism-of-catholic-nuns_b_1446136.html
Ron… Not to poke fun but my husband attended Catholic school for 13 years and if you were to ask him the impact women religious made on his life, he would probably retell the story of being punished in 2nd grade by being made to sit in the coat closet with Suzy K. He received his first kiss that day! Ah, the memories!
All humor aside. I think you are right. We, as laypeople, can’t understand why anyone would want to devote their lives to something so far from the mainstream. It takes a strong, devoted person to do that, and, although I may not share all the same beliefs, I admire them for what they do.
The Vatican, with all its focus on politics and money, has always been a bit skewed, don’t you think?
Man with gun stops stabbing spree in Utah (with video).
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
#1 Jack, do you know why Virginia used to ban personalized plates that referred to a deity? The primary reason was because they didn’t want plates that either attacked Christianity or expressed an atheist viewpoint. The state either didn’t allow or took away an ATHEIST plate and the fellow who wanted that plate complained about religious plates. So the state decided that to accomplish that, they couldn’t allow Christian messages, either. So the whole thing started with the state outlawing an atheist plate, not a religious one.
I think the law as it is now is best.
As for FOSAMA, if the purpose of that plate is what I think it is, it’s certainly juvenile and offensive. What a child.
Ron,
Despite their hard work and devotion, it appears that the Church still considers women to be second class citizens.
This is beyond shameful IMO.
“Largely hidden from public view is the equally serious economic and eldercare crisis faced by the increasingly elderly population of retired sisters. Having poured out their talent and energy and devotion for decades on behalf of the pastoral mission of the Church, without asking for any monetary reward, they now find themselves living on the margins. Many Catholics, to say nothing of people of other faiths, are often shocked to learn that the Church, itself, does not fund the religious orders of women and does not extend any financial support to the care of elderly nuns. The sisters, as they always have, must figure it out for themselves.”
Debbie,
My sponsoring order, thankfully, is not among the orders unable to pay for the care of its members in retirement. They have their own independent living center, assisted living center and nursing home which they use to provde such care. Each of those facilities is also open to the public.
@gdad: “As for FOSAMA, if the purpose of that plate is what I think it is, it’s certainly juvenile and offensive. What a child.”
But the First Amendment isn’t designed to protect only popular, grown-up sounding speech. If that were the case, there would be no need for the First Amendment.
However, some courts have ruled that banning plates that a reasonable person would find offensive is not a violation of the First Amendment, unfortunately.
Honestly, I think they should do away with them altogether. If they are going to allow people to customize them as a form of self-expression, they should not censor what goes onto them. It is not the government’s job to censor speech or expression, even if it is offensive.
gdad is right about the personalized tags. I see lots of religious personalized tags and have heard of a few atheist, skeptic, or sacriligious tags get denied by the DMV. Free speech fail!
That’s great, Ron.
Here’s a pretty interesting take on what happens to the subject of religion when we think about it intelligently:
“…analytic thinking reduces intuitions of God, of an afterlife and of experiences of divine presence…”
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/04/26/analytical-thinking-reduces-religious-convictions-ubc-study/
#7 That’s ugly to read, Debbie.
9 Jack – I agree, just do away with the vanity plates. Folks have plenty of room for stickers on their vehicles.
#10 John W, I think that the DMV now pretty much has to allow the atheist plates since it was forced to allow the religious ones. Personally, I could live without personalized plates.
From the “Let’s see if Dan will post this” files:
“Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store”
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
TO: Bill Hudson..from a previous post…
I guess, before I stop beating my head against the wall,I DO owe you an answer to your question regarding where I do get my news.
I watch LOCAL news on the major stations of course. But, not national news, they are in the tank for Obama, always have been. We see that by the soft ball questions they throw at Obama, and the hardball questions they throw at any conservative. But, we don’t need to debate that..I am just answering your question.
Despite what anyone assumes, I don’t watch FOX news either..nor do I listen to Rush or any OTHER talk radio on anywhere near a regular basis. Unless you count that I have watched a whole program on Fox or listened to Rush maybe 5 times, or less, in the last year a “regular” basis.
I watch TV for entertainment, not news..if I am taking TV time, I am watching a movie or one of my favorite shows, not news. Same with the radio..I want to hear music, not news.
I get all my “news” on the internet. I have some sites that I get news delivered to my e-mail daily etc. I get monthly news letters from Ken Cuccineli, etc….and I have MANY people through contact with the Tea Party and beyond that send me “must see” news, that sometimes direct me to Fox news and sometimes to Alex Jones, but his site is NOT one of the ones I have signed up for…I take everything Alex Jones reports with a grain of salt….but I have to put it through my “filter” first…and sometimes my filter is “let’s watch and see what comes up to confirm it” and yes, sometimes my “filter” is nothing more than…”OMG!!..even if this is TRUE..if there is nothing I can do about it…I don’t want to dwell on it.” ( place red faced smiley here). Other than THAT…I have a couple of blogs that I read daily…but, in all of those cases….what I read most, and probably where I get most of my internet news is reading the “comments” sections,and following links from there.
Actually, I mentioned in another thread that I am on AOL right?..Huffington Post bought AOL…so the very FIRST “news” I see when I sign online is news from Huffington Post..an admittedly LEFT leaning news Organization…correct?..and when I play the radio in my car…I listen to “Vibe100″..I like the music…but, that also means that inbetween songs I am hearing Tom Joyner in the morning and Michael Baysden ( sp?) in the afternoon…spouting THEIR “racist Tea Party, racist Repubicans..”gotta keep the “brother” in office” crap.
In spite of our worries when Huffington Post first “took over” AOL news. I actually have to give KUDOS to Huffington Post, I see a little “spin” in their articles, but not “in your face” spin…like many Liberals do. They changed the picture of George Zimmerman, for example, from the one in the orange jumpsuit, to the one in the suit and tie when they write about the case…BUT they still put up the picture of Treyvon when he was 12.
There is very little spin in the articles, and what they choose to write about are the MOST “balanced” of ANY organization I have seen yet. Yes, even more than Fox news. HP doesn’t seem to shy away from ANY subject…and they report on EVERYTHING…(Gee, Dan, even the things that I don’t see at WND until I check my mail.) Fox news didn’t report on Sheriff Joe’s news release on March 1st, but Huffington post did… Whne it comes to OWS…HP reports what they are saying as well as what others are saying about them. Huffington post has reported WHY George Zimmerman was carryng a gun that night…when no other left leaning sites seem to have done THAT. They printed when Spile Lee gave out the addresses of the wrong people and called for their harrassement…then also reported when Spike Lee gave an apology and offered to compensate them for the trouble he caused…those are recent example, but I could up with PAGES of examples…they report BOTH sides…then let the commenters have it out and make up their own minds.
Which is what I DO..I weight it, read both sides from the commenters, and because I don’t THINK like you all do…it is usually the Conservative commenters who are the most reasonable and make the best “case” and I usually “side with” them.
SO, I guess that answers your question, Bill Hudson. I get my political news from the internet and from the public at large, and in many cases, I am FIRST exposed to the “news” from a “balanced” source (HP)..OR from one that is decidedly LEFT…like TJ or MB on the radio.
Mitt Romney gets the kiss of death.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/25/jimmy-carter-id-be-comfortable-with-mitt-romney/
Mark, isn’t that the third time someone has posted a link to that story on this blog?
Personalized plates are too cheap in VA. It only emboldens the evil doers. Y
The Huffington post did not buy AOL. AOL bought the Huffington Post, and primarily to provide coverage replacing the folks in Dulles and NYC that comprised the AOL News Dept.
Just an FYI.
Okay Scott..thanks for the info, I knew it was one or the other..but, didn’t think it mattered enough to the overall post to look it up.
#17 Thank you for that detailed insight into how you get your news. And reading through the lines I hear you as to what is or what is not left or right issues. It’s a funny thing but a few years back when I lived in Harrisonburg it was a very conservative newspaper that spoke out in stopping a golf course from being built in a nice nature park. I think they even endorsed Oliver North, so go figure.
But I do not know when the GOP and the right wing took the train off to loonyvile but it at times defines any sort of some strange definition.
I have many right wing friends that when the last election was happening they were trying to tell me Obama was really a Muslim and he really was not born in the US, and they had proven theory. At the time I just had to laugh but at the same time it makes one wonder how nuts things have gotten.
Let’s make it FOUR.
“Man with legal firearm STOPS stabbing Spree”
The real question is this…when will we finally outlaw the sale of knives?
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
Just passing through…
Yes, that explains a lot, sadly.
Oddly enough, there are people in this nation who do not viscerally hate Willard Romney the fat cat Wall Street corporate raider nearly as much as they hated the community organizer turned Senator, Barack Obama. Go figure. One would think that a Wall Street tycoon would never stand a chance at the nomination, much less the Presidency. Hate is a powerful, powerful thing. I have stopped underestimating it.
#16 Not only will he allow it to be posted, he’s allowed it multiple times now!!!
That quite of the day is hilarious coming from the Master of Lies. He wouldn’t know the truth I’d it ran up and bit him on that fat, ugh, ankle.
I am really amazed at the total BS that right wingers are putting out there on a daily basis. I have a friend that sends out an email almost every day castigating Obama and every one as far back as I can remember has been total BS. I’ve sent him several replies with a source that shows its total BS. I am amazed at how much Obama is hated and the pack of lies that we are being bombarded with on a daily basis.
The source of many of these lies can be traced back the author of the daily quote for today.
You’re Welcome Bill Hudson for the detailed answer, BUT….and believe me I debated about whether to mention this or not….and decided I will.
As I mentioned, I am usually swayed to the “right” by the fact that their arguments are more detailed and resonable…there have been SOME instances where my “first look, or first THOUGHT, hard core stances have been softened a little by the reasoned arguments of fellow conservatives.
The “liberal” commenters, however, they are a different story. Very few, if any, of them give a reasonable arguement..they just hurl insults, call us or the source of the “news” crazy, hate motivated, racists etc…and that is that, their mind are closed, no use discussing it anymore…so much like many commenters, and the “owner” of this blog here…and as you did in your reply.
As has been mentioned, the Tea Party holds politicians feet to the fire, even the GOP ones. We don’t excuse Anti-American, Anti-Freedom, Unconstitutional bills no matter WHAT side of the fence they are on.
The same can be said for us “Birthers”..and yea, just go ahead and watch the hate spew from our “fellow” commenters here, they just can’t HELP themselves, they can’t even filter their thoughts to being, well since I haven’t really researched it, maybe I should not comment on it..but, that is ALL you will see..the comments “that is bull..you are a racist, you hate Obama, why does HE have to prove he is a citizen? you are a crazy birther and I am not going to listen to anything else you have to to say etc, etc, etc adnauseum….what you WON’t see is anyone who has reviewed the “evidence” and make any reasoned arguments to try and disprove what that “evidence” reveals..or, even so much as say, I understand where you are coming from..BUT…I see it THIS way and explain why.
So, since I can’t even bring myself to THINK like you do….I don’t feel at ALL shamed and guilty for wanting to ensure that our President is a “natural born citizen” according to the Constitution. In MY mind, which, I know, is so foreign to the other commenters on this blog..when now there has been an official investigation, and there are serious questions about whether he was even BORN here, has “released” forged documents, records are missing or sealed etc…when even his citizenship status….let alone his “natural born” citizenship status is in question. I can’t understand WHY it’s not important to anyone ELSE whether or not our “President” is even a citizen of our Country…no matter WHO he is. If you don’t want to make sure that our “President” is even a citizen..it says to me that you don’t CARE, and frankly, if you don’t care about THAT..how ” unbiased” can I see any of you or your arguements about wanting what’s best for the Country as being?
Just as a thought…I am anticipating how many leftists “birthers” we are going to be hearing from if Mitt Romney names Marco Rubio as his running mate. We “birthers” are consistant…we LOVE Marco Rubio and LOVE seeing him speak for our side, unlike Obama, there is no question in our minds as to his Patriotism or love of Country and we’d like to see him go far in politics, but sorry Marco….not as President or VP, because you are not a natural born citizen, in our best interpretation of what that means according to the Constitution. If you think we are wrong in that interpretation…take it up with SCOTUS.
Unlike YOU, we aren’t going to play “sides” when it comes to the Constitution. IF that makes us “crazy”. So be it…as I said, to ME it’s “crazy” not to even question or care.
Opps, I should have said “as being valid”.
As someone who has had and enjoyed, several great “vanity” plates, I think the truth is that the state opened a “Pandora’s box” and as usual some fools have to take it too far or make it confusing on purpose. I think the “different” plates are all great and more than plenty choices abound, they should stop the vanity plates, I agree. But I think they like the money.
Bill Perdue, I hear you and agree. I had a rather uncomfortable exchange with an older friend I adore and respect greatly today who swallows every right wing word and meme. He was trying to explain to me why insurance companies that dominate our medical decisions and 4 more years of Obama would be the death of this nation; and since I can no longer restrain the truth of this matter, I said, “If that is true, why would you all nominate Mitt Romney as the solution? A Wall Street Corporate raider is not an improvement after what they did to this nation.” He was not happy, and pretty much the fall of the nation is now on my head for such “blasphemy”. But seriously, if you want me to accept that the house is on fire and Obama set the blaze, do not send Mittzo the Clown to put it out and set things right. FGS, what is wrong with the world?
The GOP had a candidate that would have won the election and they never even gave him a chance. Disenchanted Obama supporters and certainly Independents would have rallied for Huntsman and it might even have been the rout they desire. I find no sympathy for those who are afraid of the four more years of Obama, they deserve it, and owe a lot to FlimFlambaugh for it.
“IF that makes us “crazy”. So be it…as I said, to ME it’s “crazy” not to even question or care.”
Comment by Sharon N. — April 27, 2012 @ 5:52 pm
Speaking of crazy, Sharon N, you never got around to answering my question; were you the crazy old bat in the purple cat sweatshirt I saw shouting at traffic about two years ago? It was during a tea bagger protest in front of Suntrust downtown. I’m pretty sure that had to be you. You project the same amount of crazy that geezer did when she said she was “saving the country”.
Come on, Sharon N, give it up. Was that you?
No need to add anything, she did it all on her own. Stunning.
Good news, IMHO:
http://tinyurl.com/d7fzhs4
**
College crackdown aims to protect vets
By: Times-Dispatch Staff | McClatchy-Tribune News Service
Published: April 28, 2012
WASHINGTON –
President Barack Obama has signed an executive order that the administration says will crack down on colleges that use misleading information about financial aid, credits and programs to prey on military veterans.
The move comes amid reports of for-profit schools aggressively targeting veterans and the tuition assistance money provided in the G.I. Bill. Administration officials said they have seen a pattern of schools enrolling large numbers of military students. Some of the schools lure the students in with false promises of generous financial aid or take advantage of veterans suffering from brain injuries suffered in war.
“That’s appalling. That’s disgraceful. It should never happen in America,” Obama said before signing the order in front of a crowd of more than 10,000 troops at Fort Stewart in Hinesville, Ga.
SNIP
**
SharonN
Just wow! There have been volumes of printed material, copies of birth notices, copies of the long form birth certificate, examinations of that by computer specialists, court cases, multiple suits and even the supreme court has said there is no basis for any claim that President Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States. As is Marco Rubio by the way. There is no amount of evidence that you and the “birthers” who have been expressing your hate and bigotry toward Obama from the day he was elected will accept as proof of that because your minds were made up as soon as Karl Rove and Dick Armey planted the seed (along with the Koch brothers). You complain about beating your head against the wall. I am convinced that you mean that quite literally. Only someone who has suffered repeated blows to the head is incapable of reading and understanding the clear evidence that has been placed in front of you.
President Obama follows the lead of this blog once again!
@37
Why does this link lead me to the “Jerry Falwell Must be Rolling in His Grave” thread?
#35 Dave H, I’m just not sure how you could possibly support government interference in private industry’s Constitutional right to ripoff the public, especially their right to scam tax dollars. If the veterans are too dumb to realize they’re being taken, the, hey, that’s just tough. This is just more leftist big government.
#36 Dave,
There you go again, trying to confuse Sharon N with those pesky little facts!
#29 It’s true. Birthers are bonkers.
Art,
The comment was a reply to something Dave Hicks wrote about Obama’s crackdown on online universities. That post is about Liberty’s and other online Us.
Dave – Some people deny President Obama’s citizenship, some people deny climate change, some deny that we went to the moon, or even that the earth isn’t flat. Some people just deny the reality of things that make them uncomfortable – so it is with SharonN, IMHO, having read several of her posts…
Sharon N., This won’t take but a moment: what’s your explanation for the two different Hawaii newspapers printing a local birth announcement for Barack Obama in 1961?
Warren,
Their answer is, the birth announcement was the very first act in a plot to elect the first non natural born citizen to the presidency since the Revolutionary War days.
None of the FF were natural born citizens.
That is the most successful plot ever, Dan. I wonder who the geniuses behind it were. Surely it wasn’t just his parents who said, this child will someday be President and then set out to make it happen.
Could be, Dan, (if that is your real name), but I want to hear Sharon N.’s explanation.
Sharon N., This won’t take but a moment: what’s your explanation for the two different Hawaii newspapers printing a local birth announcement for Barack Obama in 1961?
P.S.: Sharon N., ignore Dan’s (if that is his real name) explanation; we can prove he’s part of the newspaper conspiracy hisself.
Sharon N, do Birthers believe those newspaper announcements are fake? If so, someone has gone to a heck of a lot of trouble.
Debbie@1:19
Isn’t the answer obvious? It was the militant Islamists who were alreadyat that time plotting to take over the world and convert us all to Sharia law. As a matter of fact, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if Osama Bin Laden and Barack Obama actually had the same Saudi Arabian father. (Probably different mothers though). Just wait until that paragon of law enforcement Joe Arpajo completes his exhaustive investigation
using his limiless resources provided by (who else) the Koch Bothers!
Right now I’m up here at the Sheraton, at the GOP senate debate.
I’ve always believed in common sense and Birthers just fly in the face of it.
Dan, haven’t you heard about the GOP’s Craig Rule? It states that unless it is held at Liberty University, one needs plausable deniabilty when tapped to watch mass debaters.
Macaca!!
Dan
Hope you’re wearing your gas mask and armored vest.And stay out of tobacco spitting range. How big is the crowd there?
Dan,
This might be dear to your heart:
http://tinyurl.com/7stvz5g
**
Supreme Court Report
Citizens Dis-United: Justices May Take Another Look at Campaign Finance Case
Posted May 1, 2012 3:00 AM CDT
By Leslie A. Gordon
SNIP
But while super PACs are enlivening the 2012 campaign, the Supreme Court may not yet be done with Citizens United. In late February it stayed a surprising Montana Supreme Court ruling that stunned election experts by ignoring Citizens United altogether and upholding the state’s ban on independent corporate spending in state elections.
A petition for a writ of certiorari was filed March 27. If the court accepts the petition, the case will be argued during the court’s 2012 session—possibly in time for election day, Nov. 6.
SNIP
**
She “knows” what she “knows”, and God help her, she knows nothing else. There is no class of people more happy to be used or more proud to display why it happens. The TP/GOP depends more on these people than they ever will the Koch brothers et al.
You know the other day when we were talking about “foxholes”? If I found myself in a foxhole with the enemy, I would seriously have to question what I signed up for. It is patently obvious what the TP/GOP does for the Suzie types and her hub’s business, taxes and wealth. It is equally obvious what they do to the Sharon N types and yet she continues to insist they are just what she and the rest of this nation needs?
dave,
Not every chair was taken, but the room is mostly full — I’d say 85-95 percent full. It was not a very diverse crowd at all. EW Jackson said liberalism was evil. Jamie Radtke said if she’s elected, she’ll end the federal ban on parents packing lunches for schoolkids (she said this at least twice). Bob Marshall told the crowd to buy stock in Excedrin, because if he’s elected he’s going to causing headaches all over Virginia. George Allen defended the Department of Homeland Security, and did not once use the term “macaca.”
“But while super PACs are enlivening the 2012 campaign, the Supreme Court may not yet be done with Citizens United. In late February it stayed a surprising Montana Supreme Court ruling that stunned election experts by ignoring Citizens United altogether and upholding the state’s ban on independent corporate spending in state elections.
A petition for a writ of certiorari was filed March 27. If the court accepts the petition, the case will be argued during the court’s 2012 session—possibly in time for election day, Nov. 6.”
I think we get the drift here. The court will fundamentally alter the decision, but only AFTER the next presidential election. No sense in letting all that pent-up anti-Obama money go unspent!
“federal ban on parents packing lunches for schoolkids”
WTF??? Where do they get this crap?
Chicago has done it, Lori. I think it’s insane.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school
I’d love Sharon N to come explain the federal prohibition on packing school lunch.
If the Birthbaggers are going to be dumb enough to buy that sort of crap, they deserve to be treated just as they’re being treated….as useful idiots.
North Carolina also makes kids eat from the cafeteria and not home packed lunches. It’s not a federal ban, but even states doing it is going to far, IMO.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/school-lunch-guidelines-p_n_1278803.html In this article, the school wouldn’t let the child eat a turkey sandwich from home, but made her eat chicken nuggets from the cafeteria. The turkey sandwich is healthier than chicken nuggets.
I am telling you, these people are crazy.
Dan
You mean Radtke and Jackson didn’t mention ICLEI? Greg and Tripp must be highly disappointed. And no doubt Taliban Bob would create lots of
headaches. Fortunately he has no chance in hell of winning the nomination or getting elected. He is just running to have the chance to show the state how really crazy he is. And Jackson is like Newt Gingrich. He’s out to sell more tapes, get speaking engagements and bilk the crazies out of more of their money. Allen, who is a bigoted tool of the corporations is a flaming liberal compared to those three.
I think schools have been running into more and more instances of kids packing lunch, trading food with one another, and ending up with kids having bad reactions to foods that have peanut oil or some other substance to which children are allergic. This is becoming more and more common.
dave, E.W. Jackson is a slightly younger version of Alan Keyes. He was by far the best speaker there. Marshall was the worst. Allen was the most folksy (and conversant with federal law, although Marshall ran a close second on the latter). Radtke struck me as the nuttiest. The school lunch thing and her declaration that we could resolve the national debt via her program My2Cents made her seem the most out-of-touch of the bunch.
Nobody mentioned ICLEI or Agenda 21, sadly for the many Tea Party members in attendance. But Allen and Marshall talked about their support for coal, and Marshall said global warming science was a fraud, and the majority of the candidates promised to work to abolish the EPA. Radtke said she’d get rid of the Department of Education (I believe Jackson said he would, too) and at least one of them also promised to get rid of the Department of Energy.
By far the biggest round of applause came when the introducer said Barack Obama was the worst president the United States has ever had.
NONE of the candidates was willing to endorse Mitt Romney at this time. All of them said they would endorse the GOP nominee, and Allen said it was obvious that would be Romney.
Zach is 13, and he’s never been to anything like this before. When I suggested it this morning, he was quite reluctant. But then I showed him the video of George Allen and “macaca” and he got enthused.
We sat in the center of the room, and several times when one or another of candidates made egregious errors of fact in their statements, he turned to me at stage whispered, “what the . . .?” (He’s WAY too polite to use the F-word). He was honestly shocked by some of the things he heard. Not because I’ve indoctrinated him (I always encourage him to think for himself) but because the world he lives in is quite at odds with the ones certain candidates were describing. For instance, he packs his lunch every school day. He was mightily puzzled by Jamie Radtke’s repeated implications that doing so is illegal under federal law. As we left, I explained to him that “She’s just telling stupid people what she thinks they want to hear.”
Debbie
I think you need to reread the link you provided on the North Carolina Schools. It doesn’t say anywhere that there is a ban on children packing their lunch. It talks about the state enforcing some USDA guidelines for prekindergarten and kindergarten students and about a state inspector monitoring lunch in one classroom and requiring the school to give one stuedent chicken nuggets to augment her lunch, claiming it did not meet nutritional guidelines. And other officials in North Carolina disputed whether the child’s lunch met the guidelines. But there is no ban on children packing lunch in the North Carolina schools.
dave and Debbie,
There’s no question that it was the Hoke, N.C. case that Jamie Radtke was referring to. But she did it in a way that suggested strongly there was a federal ban on parent-packed lunches. She is the candidate on the stage who is the great defender of those. Not one of the others mentioned it (and sensibly). Because it’s complete BS.
Dan
EW Jackson makes his living (or a part of it) doing public speaking engagements as a right wing motivational speaker. So I would have expected him to be an accomplished speaker though I am sure he is quite expert at distorting facts and making up plenty of his own.
E.W. Jackson is a great speaker. I expected he would be, after hearing (and reading) from Chip Tarbutton and Greg Aldridge about his skills. The guy did not disappoint (though it’s a weakness to quote from the national anthem and “My Country Tis of Thee” as much as he does in his speeches). But so far as I know, he’s never been elected anything. The day is long past that anyone can reasonably start out running for U.S. Senate and hope to get elected based on their rhetorical skills alone. And Jackson is nowhere near as effective a speaker as Hitler. He’s still the king of that crowd.
Re: Comment by Debbie — April 28, 2012 @ 6:34 pm
From your link:
**
SNIP
Principal Elsa Carmona said her intention is to protect students from their own unhealthful food choices.
“Nutrition wise, it is better for the children to eat at the school,” Carmona said. “It’s about the nutrition and the excellent quality food that they are able to serve (in the lunchroom). It’s milk versus a Coke. But with allergies and any medical issue, of course, we would make an exception.”
Carmona said she created the policy six years ago after watching students bring “bottles of soda and flaming hot chips” on field trips for their lunch. Although she would not name any other schools that employ such practices, she said it was fairly common.
SNIP
[Emphasis added]
**
A school “Principal” (or even a number of of school “Principals”) independently deciding to adopt a policy for her/his individual school does not a federal policy make.
Michael Sluss’ piece on the GOP Senate debate which has been posted online does not mention 1. Radtke’s rant on school lunches 2. Any promises by any of the candidates to eliminate the dept. of education, the EPA, or any other federal agency 3. Focuses primarily on how the candidates would deal with social security 4. Never mentions coal.
I find his coverage and that of Mason Adams to be slanted toward a Republican point of view in most instances. Anyone who claims that everybdy at the RT is a flaming liberal definitely never reads what these guys write.
Assuming, arguendo, that you were the School Principal responsible for the safety of the the safety of the children in a school, what would do if you knew that one of your students has a severe food allergy resulting in anaphylaxis?
(see: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710 “Peanut allergy is common, especially in children. Peanut allergy symptoms can range from a minor irritation to a life-threatening reaction (anaphylaxis). For some people with peanut allergy, even tiny amounts of peanuts can cause a serious reaction. [emphasis added]”
I’m glad I don’t have that sort of responsibility. However, I might well lean toward a ban on all outside foods rather than restrict that child to live in a bubble of some sort.
———
As an aside:
Then there are special interest laws.
See: http://tinyurl.com/3ln5qfd
**
Peanuts on planes protected by law
April 20, 2011|By Marnie Hunter, CNN
SNIP
But when the new rules concerning issues from airline fees and bumping to tarmac delays were announced Wednesday, the department said it won’t take on the peanut issue because of a 12-year-old law blocking the agency from tampering with peanut policy without more scientific study.
“The Department is prohibited by law from restricting the serving of peanuts aboard aircraft unless a peer-reviewed study determines that serving of peanuts causes severe reactions among airline passengers. There has been no such peer-reviewed study, so we declined to take action at this time,” it said in a statement.
SNIP
**
dave,
In defense of Mike Sluss, who I admire for many reasons, the Social Security question and the answers were probably the most newsworthy of the bunch. E.W. Jackson gave the most interesting answer. He said SS is a sacred compact, he talked about how his steelworker dad retired after 30+ years on a $150/mo pension + social security and that’s all he had (this was before Jackson said he came from a broken home and lived in foster care from the 5th grade on, which was a little confusing, chronology wise), said SS was a promise that must be fulfilled — AND THEN he started talking about why we should consider changing to a system like Chile’s (which is not as cracked us at the TPers make it out to be). It was kind of a bizarre answer because it headed off in one direction then veered sharply to the right.
Keep in mind also that I was there for pleasure and relaxation. I wasn’t working, so I didn’t have my reportorial hat on. There is a big difference. If I had been listening to the debate and thinking about what I was going to write about at the same time, it’s quite possible I would have turned in a story like Mike’s. He’s quite a good reporter.
Dave Hicks,
I once led a bunch of teens on bike trip from New Haven to Montreal for American Youth Hostels. One of the kids had a severe peanut allergy. We cooked all our own food on that trip, and he inspected the ingredients of every single item. When I bought peanut oil to make pancakes with the next morning, he insisted I change it out for something else. He was quite good about that.
He was a teen, however. Way older and wiser than a 4-year-old.
If i had a young child with a potentially fatal allergy that I couldn’t trust to not eat other kids’ food, I wouldnt leave their safety in the hands of any teacher or principal – far less the other kids in the room. That child would be eating lunch at home until they could reliably not eat anyone else’s food.
Where does it stop….you’re outlawing peanut butter, or anything with nuts….next kid has lactose issues, and you’re getting rid of milk?
Dan
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just find that he and Mason Adams consistently ignore the radical positions taken by Republicans on issues like federal aid to education, eliminating the
EPA, and slashing govt. regulations on anything. Many of these things
are not mainstream ideas and they tend to deemphasize or not mention them.
They did, to their credit, give some coverage to the Republicans in the General Assembly with their abusive social agenda. But I think they tend to give Morgan Griffith, Bob Goodlatte, Ralph Smith, and Wiiliam Hurt a pass on their anti environmental and pro coal/big business agenda. They don’t need to take sides but they need to present a balanced picture.
OOps! Robert Hurt.
Comment by Kristen — April 28, 2012 @ 8:54 pm
Nice dodge.
The question was about the individual parent.
Assuming, arguendo, that you were the School Principal (not the parent) what would you do?
OOps
RE: My last
——-
Intended “The question was not about the individual parent.
I know the school lunch thing is not a federal policy. There are probably supporters of Jamie Radke who don’t though.
DaveHicks, if my answer wasn’t perfectly obvious from what I posted, i would not prohibit outside food, ever. I find the entire notion ludicrous. That clear enough?
Dave, I know there isn’t a federal ban or even state bans on packing lunches. I do think that taking turkey and cheese sandwich away from a child and giving them chicken nuggets is ridiculous. It’s just plain silly.
Re: 75.Assuming, arguendo, that you were the School Principal responsible for the safety of the the safety of the children in a school, what would do if you knew that one of your students has a severe food allergy resulting in anaphylaxis?
I would make sure that all teachers, teachers aides and cafeteria workers knew about the student/students who had severe allergies. I also think it’s a good idea for students, especially the younger ones, to be taught the possible danger in trading/sharing food. Children are taught about nutrition why not teach them about food allergies along with it.
I believe a child could be protected without being kept in a bubble or made to feel like a freak.
Dan et al
http://tinyurl.com/6sstpuk
**
Allen emerges unscathed in GOP primary debate for Senate seat
By Robert McCartney, Saturday, April 28, 9:36 PM
ROANOKE — The internal battle in the Virginia Republican Party between everyday conservatives and tea party insurgents took center stage in a U.S. Senate primary debate here Saturday, and the establishment’s man emerged unscathed.
George Allen, the former senator and governor favored by party leaders, had little trouble rebutting or simply ignoring attacks by three rivals trying to tag him as insufficiently zealous about shrinking government and other causes dear to the right.
SNIP [some good detail]
**
Re: Comment by Debbie — April 28, 2012 @ 10:25 pm
Like Dan (assuming I understood him correctly), I do believe that there is an age factor / issue. IMHO, a significant one.
Would your answer be the same for kindergarten? Lower primary school?
Not challenging you. Just interested.
As I said, I’m glad I don’t have that sort of responsibility.
Re: Comment by Debbie — April 28, 2012 @ 10:25 pm
BTW, I do not understand the turkey and cheese sandwich v. chicken nuggets bit either.
I think some of the folks who have issues with school provided lunch v brought from home lunch are the ones who got made fun of in school because their parents made them carry the really uncool lunch boxes.
Dave Hicks at 11:17, yes, my answer would be the same for kindergarten, first grade, possibly second. I think food allergies should be discussed with the students and I think the ones at that age who have severe allergies should be monitored during lunch and snack times. I think teachers could watch them without making them feel different. Maybe have a buddy system, where their buddy could watch out for them too.
I agree with Kristen, in food not being banned for all just because of a few with problems.
#90 I’ve seen parents of kids with celiac advocating all kinds of strange stuff but don’t think I’ve ever seen them suggest you could ban gluten. However, for some of those kids, it’s essential they have a clean place to eat.
Agree with Dave. BRC is skewed to the Right. Emphasis is always on Goodlatte and Griffith, why not Webb and Warner?
Debbie, it also seems silly to me to place your trust in a bunch of minimum wage earning industrial food producing cafeteria food providers. Wheres the guarantee that THAT food is free of potential allergens. I wouldn’t even bet on it being free of rat feces.
Kristen, regarding the cafeteria workers, I guess the parents would have to pack the childs lunch. Not every parent can take their child home for lunch. I honestly don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think it’s banning food for all because of problems for a few.
Here for a minute only, I spent yesterday at the debate and various other “after activities” and today have a BF’s Family occasion…..didn’t even have time to read all of the responses…but just to touch on a few.
I have never owned a “purple cat sweatshirt”.
About the newspaper ads” No, I don’t think they are faked, I think it’s a stupid arguement to try and say that THEY mean he had to be born there…..the newspaper got their info. from the Health Department…and printed it in the paper. No verification of what was given to the Health Department was needed.
In Hawaii, it was allowed for an adult to just “swear” that a child was born there, by a midwife or whatever, in order to get the Health Department to “register” a child’s Hawaiian birht and issue a COLB…if you actually ever LISTENED to the “Cold Case Posse” report, you will see that it was entirely possible for a child up to 3 years old to have their births “registered” in Hawaii amd to have the announcement put in the paper. I know I am around the same age as most of YOU, and although you swear you don’t remember…I clearly remember when births, marriage licenses, etc were listed in “Neighborhood” Section of the Roanoke Times..those “birth announcements” in the Hawaii Papers are nothing more than those.
As to the “numerous inspections” of the BC…I have heard numerous forensic inspectors from the time the BC came OUT, stating that the Long form BC is a forgery, and a BAD one at that…can you direct me to an inspector who has said otherwise?
At BEST, an “inspector” might say that it is impossible to “inspect” a document that is just posted online…and “WE” have kind of been saying that too. If you are referring to the people who “inspected” the actual document before they posted it online…well then, my question is WHY is there a problem in giving that access to the actual document to the OTHER inspectors who want to prove whether it’s legit?
Gotta go….I’ll read more comments and repond to the ones I missed when I have more time.
Sharon,
I wasn’t suggest the birth notices were faked. I was suggesting the scientific explanation for the notices being REAL could be that someone traveled back in time before Obama’s presidential run to make sure that those notices were published back then. There is nothing fake about that.
Mark my words, Orly will be singing this tune soon. It is by far the best explanation.
#95 Sharon N,
‘I have never owned a “purple cat sweatshirt”.’
You’re just being cute now. I don’t see why you won’t answer the question. Your evasiveness only leads to more questions, Sharon N, like perhaps did you EVER “borrow” a purple cat sweatshirt. If the answer is “no”, than do YOU own a cat sweatshirt that’s ANOTHER color? “I” might have been wrong about the COLOR, but that doesn’t “prove” that you weren’t there that day, especially if YOU own and possibly WEAR said garment when YOU and THEM go to shout nonsense at traffic. Furthermore, how do WE “know” that you didn’t OWN a PURPLE CAT SWEATSHIRT but that you’re not COLORBLIND and just think it’s “fuchsia”. After all, it’s clear to ANYONE that’s done any research into the matter that “fuchsia” is the official color of the Federation of International FIB tellers ? See? You ain’t the only smarty pants on the blog after all, is you now?
Anywho, if you really believe the tomfoolery about births “registered” in Hawaii up to three years after the birth date than this all makes perfect sense to you. Best of wishes tilting at that windmill and having adults take you seriously.
I find it interesting that some folk who seem to support “zero tolerance” polices on some issues disparage it on other issues.
WYSDOWYS, maybe? WYSDOWYS2, maybe?
Very interesting, IMHO.
Sharon, births, deaths, marriages,and real estate transfers are part of public record. They cannot be made up.
Kristen, how naive you are. Obama’s minions traveled back in time to insert those notices in the public record. That’s why they’re there.
Really, DaveHicks? You think a “zero tolerance policy” on packed lunch makes as much sense as, say, “zero tolerance” on something like sexual harrassment or bringing knives to school? How about a “zero tolerance policy” on plaid. Or polyester. Or plaque.
WAISEOFE, IMO.
Dan, silly me. TARDES!
WAISEOFE???
What an interesting and silly example of false equivalency.
Yvw!
When you look at the picture as a whole, it makes more sense than boiling it down to one instance of bad judgement. I too saw parents send soda and other non-nutritious items in a “packed lunch” and the junk some send will lead to the inevitable “trades” and for small children with allergies it can be bad. Also, for the younger kids, balanced nutrition is easier if they see their peers eating something they would not eat if offered at home.
If a school is expected to offer nutritious meals and account for the allergies in a student body of hundreds of children, just banning the packed lunch is a heck of a lot easier than inspecting them and policing the tables. Sometimes an idea is just plain common sense but looks like that damn big brother wants you to eat better. I am sure if a parent is that gung-ho on packing their child’s lunch, some accommodation could be arranged. But trust me, between finicky kids and wussy parents, a lot of kids bring junk to eat.
Debbie & others,
I can figure out some of the acronyms fellow bloggers come up with to express their views on the blog. But I must admit that I have no clue about what Dave Hicks & Kristen were trying to say. It must be my advancing years.
Is there a reading comprehension problem Dan? Can you write, but not read? I wrote that parents,. grandparents, any adult could go down and have their child registered a being Hawaiin born, whether they were or not..and they would receive a COLB, and the Health Department would put that information in their files and then it got in the paper.
It is not beyond thinking that the Grandparents, or Obama’s mother simply registered his birth in Hawaii because they lived there, and they wanted their grandchild’s birth to be registered where they live.
Hence, there is a “record” at the Health Department, hence there is a “blurb” in the local paper. No time travel involved. Is that so hard to understand?
The “Cold Case Possee” DID find instances where birth announcements wre placed inthe paper for children that wre 3 years….I didn’t make that up off the top of my head.
GOOD LAWD how did I typo THAT bad?…sorry. Hope you know what I meant.
BTW Dan, be honest..Bob Marshall said that he would be causing headaches to the Politicians who didn’t vote according to the Constitution..NOT that there would be headaches all over VA.
I also don’t believe that Jaime Radtke said anything about a Federal “BAN” on school lunches….she said something along the lines of parents would have the right to pack their kids lunches.
I know, you are a columnist, not a journalist, but…in either case…honesty would be nice.
“I wrote that parents,. grandparents, any adult could go down and have their child registered a being Hawaiin born, whether they were or not..and they would receive a COLB, and the Health Department would put that information in their files and then it got in the paper. “
Sharon N,
Could … could … could … SO WHAT? Probably in Binghamton NY they COULD do that, too — in which case you can just as legitimately question whether I am a “natural born citizen.” They could do it in the town in which you were born, too, which means …. YOU COULD BE A NON NATURAL BORN CITIZEN WHO IS QUESTIONING WHETHER THE PRESIDENT IS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN … which, when you get down to it is just a RW circle jerk.
And the proof Obama’s grandparents did this is where?
You are A LOT better off going with the time-travel theory.
Sharon N,
He said there would be headaches all over DC. If I wrote Va then that was a mistake (but show me where I wrote that, eh?)
Radtke went did her school lunch act at least twice, maybe 3 times. She said if she was elected “”parents would have the right to pack their kids lunches,” As YOU wrote.
BTW, they already have that right now.
She might as well have told the crowd that if she is elected, people would have the right to sing in the shower.
And on the school lunch situation…I am with Debbie and Kristen ( imagine that). If your child has a food allergy, who ELSE would you trust to make sure they wouldn’t be exposed to the food they are allergic to?
Also, you are not giving much credit to the child…if they have eaten something that makes them sick…they will not be “risking” getting that sick again by trading lunch with anyone.
Despite what liberals may think.. people, even children, do not need anyone to dictate their every decision.
Sharon, they have the “right” ( although I’m not sure it’s in the constitution ) to pack lunch now. She’s not promising anything difficult to accomplish.
#103 Thank you Kristen, because I had no clue.
And I have to admit that I laughed out loud at Steve C.’s “purple cat sweatshirt”‘ disertation. That was cute.
Dan,
Not every chair was taken, but the room is mostly full — I’d say 85-95 percent full. It was not a very diverse crowd at all. EW Jackson said liberalism was evil. Jamie Radtke said if she’s elected, she’ll end the federal ban on parents packing lunches for schoolkids (she said this at least twice). Bob Marshall told the crowd to buy stock in Excedrin, because if he’s elected he’s going to causing headaches all over Virginia. George Allen defended the Department of Homeland Security, and did not once use the term “macaca.”
Comment by Dan Casey — April 28, 2012 @ 5:40 pm
Nuff said.
112. Sharon N. If you have had a child with peanut allergies perhaps you would understand the risks a little better. My son, now 31, has had peanut allergies is whole life. We took him to the allergist as soon as we realized it and the allergist almost killed him while testing for it. He is so sensitive to peanuts that a utensil that touches peanuts and then used to serve his food will send him to the hospital. Even the smell of peanut butter can send him into cardiac arrest. He rarely touches candy or potato chips because they all state they may have been in contact with peanuts. Even some that he has been able to eat once, may have been prepared with peanut oil the next time. He has always asked food preparers before eating anything that is questionable. He has always been aware of potential problems around him and tried to stay away for danger. We always had an epi pen and benedryl at the school in case a reaction occurred (a big deal in itself as no one at the school wants that responsibility). Yo would be amazed at the foods that contain peanut oil and how hard it is to detect and how most food preparers have no idea it is in the food. Last year he oriental food that he had specifically asked if they used any type of peanut product. He barely made it to the hospital by ambulance before going into cardiac arrest. That after only one bite of the food. He has participated in VCU medical studies and he is constantly on guard, but the allergy is deadly for him and many, many others. The VCU study was stopped because they almost killed a 6 year old during the study. I do not know about other allergies, but I do know that peanut allergies kill and kill quickly. The child knows to protect themselves but even though they try, it is impossible to do so. Having a school system try to limit the risks protects the student and protects the school and its employees from potential lawsuit should injury occur.
Sharon N,
He said Washington. I was wrong about that — I made a mistake. You were correct that I was wrong. Thank you for pointing it out to me. The rest of the stuff I was correct about.
Re: Comment by Ron — April 29, 2012 @ 7:55 pm
Sorry, Ron.
I have defined them a number of times on the blog. Guess I need to go back to spelling them out.
In any case:
WYSDOWYS = Where-You-Stand-Depends-On-Where-You-Sit
WYSDOWYS2 = What-You-See-Depends-On-Where-You-Stand-Too
Both have an element of NIMBY (Not-In-My-Back-Yard)
.
.
Dan, actually, I don’t think they COULD do that in Binghamton NY…Hawaii was lenient in those regards at that time…they were trying to increase their citizen roles, they WERE a “new state” after all. Yes, they COULD COULD COULD, if you wanted to prove that they didn’t didn’t didn’t….there should be no problem proving hospital records from the Hospital in which you born, WITHOUT wating two years and then posting a forgery online….
BTW…people said that numerous document experts verified this latest BC…can no one give me a link yet?
I wasn’t born here Dan, I was born in Germany, when my Dad was stationed there in the Army. I was born AFTER the amendment was added deeming children of CITIZEN PARENTS, born overseas, (as long as the parents didn’t permanently move there) to be “natural born Citizens”
Before that amendment, I would not have been..because until then, the Constitution considered one a “natural born citizen” only if they were born on US soil of citizen parents (Blood and Soil)…or if they were a Founding Father, they had to be “grandfathered” in because it was impossible for ANY of them to be natural born citizens..hence, the wording in the Constitution saying…” No person except a natural born citizen, OR a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President….”
Didn’t I tell Bill Hudson that no one gives me any reasonable debate on this? They just stomp their feet and say…it just isn’t SO!! You’re crazy!!
I probably SHOULD apologize for the “back in your cages” comment I made earlier but….GEEZ..it is ALL that I can picture anytime anyone mentions that we want to see a legitimate Birth Certificate from this guy…I get this picture in my mind of all liberals acting, and sounding like upset apes, jumping up and down, beating their chests, doing the “WOO WHOOO AAAKK AKKK” roars and throwing crap!!!
Richard Beason, thank you for your reasonable response, and actually, you are making my point FOR me…what if it had been YOUR son, who your wife carefully prepared a lunch that was free of anything “peanut”…and it was taken away from him (when he was 4) and he was given something that may have had peanuts or peanut oil used in the processing of it. (like chicken nuggets).
I’m sure you would have been one of the first to “sue” that school in that situation…no?
Also, when he is so deathly allergic…I’m SURE he knew better, even at a young age than to trade lunches etc…no?
Come on Dan, you did not make a mistake, it was a deliberate effort to discredit someone we already think is a fool. No one believes it was a simple mistake. You are attacking an icon in the world of stupid politics and be prepared to suffer the consequences. I mean, they never make a mistake, now do they?
Okay Dan,
So, you admitted that Jaimie Radtke did not say anything about a “federal ban” on home packed school lunches…not even ONCE..let alone 2 or 3 times.
And you admitted that BoB Marshall did not say that he would be causing Headaches all over VA…he actually said in Washington.
So, the rest being correct boils down to “George Allen defended the Dept. of Homeland Security and did not once mention the word “mecaca”". I’ll give you that one, that is the truth.
So, the score is:
Lies: 2
Truth: 1
Good thing there was someone ELSE there who could keep score..and make sure that your fellow bloggers are not mis-informed..eh?
“I’m sure you would have been one of the first to “sue” that school in that situation…no?”
Aw come on, Sharon N. Aren’t you for tort reform and against lawsuits? That’s the RWer line: regulation on the little guy!
Jamie Radtke said (at least twice) that if she was elected, you will be able to pack your own kid’s school lunch. With that promise, she was implying that it is now illegal to pack your own child’s student lunch. And when she says her election to the Senate will change things, she implies there is a federal bad.
Those are your two lies, Sharon. Either she’s a nut or she’s a deceiver. Not one of the other candidates bothered to mention school lunches because they know it’s a crock and she’s full of you-know-what.
Frankly, everyone should pack their own lunches because government-provided meals in schools should be stopped. NOW. It’s time to stop enabling parents to shirk their parental responsibilities.
Dan, she was clearly referring to the instances where parents have NOT been allowed to pack their kids lunches….which refers to Government overreach in general….come on….spin a little more.
Aww Dan, come to think of it..perhaps I am being too hard on you….ya see, the thing is..when Jaime Radtke referred to school lunches as a sign of “government overreach”…we INFORMED people KNEW to what she what she was reffering….you evidently had NO IDEA that some schools were taking home packed lunches out of kids hands, nor considering banning the practice in their school altogether…until you were told this by some of your more informed, bloggers here….therfore, it must HAVE sounded pretty off the wall for her to say that, you had no idea what she was referring to.
Interesting imagery from SharonN on her picture of liberals and democrats being apes in a cage jumping up and down and thumping their chests and making unintelligible sounds. I too have an image that comes to my mind every time I read one of her posts, esprcially the “birther” ones. My image is associated with the introductory and closing music that was featured on each episode of Rod Serling’s great TV series, The Twilight Zone.And in my mind’s eye I see the picture opf the crazy sister in the
old movie “Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte.”
Dan, she was clearly referring to the instances where parents have NOT been allowed to pack their kids lunches….which refers to Government overreach in general….come on….spin a little more.
Sharon heard it too!
There is no federal government overreach that Jamie Radtke can save us from concerning the ability of parents to pack their kids lunches. And she wanted the crowd to believe this is,.
Why are we discussing this woman? She is going to Washington about the same time I do as a Senator. Good grief, she has already had more time than she deserves. Allen will be the nominee…and he will lose to Kaine.
Speaking of lunches and life-threatening allergies, here’s the government interfering in our lives again:
Under a new law Virginia public schools will have to keep on hand epinephrine in case a student has an emergency allergic reaction.
The law, which Gov. Bob McDonnell signed today, requires local school boards to develop policies for maintaining and administrating EpiPens to students.
The legislation was proposed after a Chesterfield County elementary school student, Amarria Johnson, died at school as a result of a previously-unknown peanut allergy.
I hope Radtke plans on enforcing my right to wear open toed shoes. And eat breakfast in my home.
“Suzie says:
Frankly, everyone should pack their own lunches because government-provided meals in schools should be stopped. NOW. It’s time to stop enabling parents to shirk their parental responsibilities.
Posted on April 30th, 2012″
I knew it. Screwzie was one of those kids who was made fun of for carrying an uncool lunch box.
121. Sharon – No, you are missing my point. The schools are careful to prepare lunches that avoid allergens. However, if a child brings a lunch to school containing peanuts or other peanut products, my son could have died by simply being across the lunch table from them. Since Public Schools have been ruled by the Supreme Court to be Public for all children, then they must protect all children whether severely disabled or simply allergic to peanuts. To ask them to allow any child to bring any lunch into the school causes the schools to have no control. I could have sued the school system several times but did not because I thought they were doing their best in a difficult situation. The crux of the matter is simply all children have the right to attend public schools and the schools are responsible for their safety while in their care. To take away the school’s ability to protect my child just so a parent can pack a lunch is beyond my comprehension.
Okay, Richard Beason…again ..thank you for your reasoned response and yes, you HAVE made me think…I perfectly understand your position…and why you feel the way you do…I can’t argue with that at all! And you know, I really doubt that you are ever going to see things “my way” because of your unique situation..and I “get it”, I do. In my response, I am not even TRYING to change YOUR mind…that is not possible, I realize that and certainly understand why. For the benefit of the others…who may or may not CARE..I hope you will allow me to respond with “my position.”
SO..follow along with my way of thinking here, if you can…..not belittling your son’s condition or your concern for his health in ANY way, please understand that. Your concern is 100% justified…even though I realize at first glance that some of my “counter-points” might appear to be a bit “heartless” or uncaring of your concern….I don’t FEEL that way at all…HONESTLY…and who knows, I may be typing along here trying to defend my position, and come to realize that ACTUALLY I am closer to “siding with” YOU and other parents in your situation. I promise that if that happens, I am not too “proud” to admit it….and if I wander off into “Agenda 21″ territory…I hope you will understand that and take into consideration that I HONESTLY DO see this as a legitimate concern…I am not just trying to “Pee” you off…or create an argument.
Richard, you said “to take away the school’s ability to protect my child just so A parent can pack A lunch is beyond my comprehension.”
With all due respect for your postition Richard….we are not talking about A( as in one) parent, or A ( as in one) lunch. We are talking about taking away EVERY other parents ability to send “organic” food, for example, in their child’s lunch if they so choose…whether there is anyone in their school who has a severe allergy or not.
As Kristen, I think it was, pointed out yesterday…do you honestly trust a NATIONAL Department of Education to look out for your child with severe allergies? Think about this please, when we have TSA agents flying in the FACE of common sense and making people strip down to their breast prosthetics, or their catheters, or pat down screaming 3 year olds…when we are constantly seeing drugs touted as the next medical miracle…only to find, a few months later that they have been recalled…OR we see lawyers telling the public that if you or a loved one have suffered SEVERE reactions or death due to taking that medical miracle, please call….” when you find out that garbage meat has been mixed with ammonia to make pink slime “safe” for public consumption, and was included in school lunches..without our knowledge or consent. When Monsanto’s is FIGHTING having to disclose (by putting on the label) what foods we are eating that have actually been “genetically altered”… Do you HONESTLY see them being willing to make such special “accomdations” to protect a few children with severe allergies?
Further, and I am so sorry to say this Richard because I KNOW how it sounds..please bear with me…I am willing to offer a possible solution. Do you honestly feel you have the right to demand that millions of children be exposed to these threats, and deny millions of parents the right to protect them from them, so that a few parents in your situation can protect YOUR kids? Are you going to deny parents in Kansas the right to protect their kids, who, most likely, have NO ONE in their school with this RARE allergic reaction, because a kid in Roanoke, VA DOES? Isn’t this an example of allowing the Federal Government to deny rights to the masses to protect the rights of a few? Isn’t this an example of dictating a federal solution to a local problem?
Richard, you said your son is now 31? Is this correct? How in the world did he ever survive school at ALL with so many kids being able to pack their lunches, sit near him on the bus, put their lunches in lockers he might pass by? My point being….that he DID survive!! Correct? Nope, it wasn’t easy, I understand that..but he DID “survive” rubbing elbows with the other kids? His condition is VERY unfortunate, but, let’s face it, that some will be born with heavier crosses to bear, so to speak, is pretty much a fact of life. Try as we might, we just can’t change that, and no one can make life “fair” for everybody, we must learn to “cope” expecting everyone ELSE to bend over backwards accomodating them is not fair to the others either. Sometimes, the best we can do, ( like having emergency medication on hand) is the best we can do.
But, getting back to the point of it being a Federal mandate for a local problem, and the possible solution I mentioned earlier…….
What would be wrong with..when the parent’s discover that their child has a life threatening allergy….they notify the local School system and the school THEN notifies the parent’s of all the children currently attending school and TELL them that there is a child in the school who has life threatening allergies to “peanuts”, for example….and the School sends” out a little letter that goes something like this” “……we are confident that you understand the situation and agree that we want to do all that we can to keep the child’s exposure to “peanuts” to an absolute minimum to the best of our ability. To do this, we must ask you to please be mindful of what you send in your childrens lunches…no peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for example…..etc. etc. I am sure you understand and will abide by the the rules that must be imposed, as you know we would also accommodate YOUR child if they had this life threatening allergy….and so on and so forth.
Despite what you may believe..I am sure that at least 85% of the parents would be able to put themselves in your shoes and behave accordingly….that will reduce the exposur by 85%, (sometimes the best we can do is the best we can do, remember)and as to the selfish CLODS who wouldn’t care…well, we’d know who THEY are too..wouldn’t we? And we could treat them accordingly.
“We are talking about taking away EVERY other parents ability to send “organic” food, for example, in their child’s lunch if they so choose…whether there is anyone in their school who has a severe allergy or not.”
“We” are not talking about that. Jamie Radtke is talking about that. It is not happening on a national scale. It’s not really happening on any scale whatsoever. Perhaps a couple stupid people in a couple isolated schools have said garbage like this, and it gets picked up and way way way overblown by the right-wing lie machine. There is no danger of the feds banning parents from packing school lunches, despite Jamie Radtke’s claims that if she’s elected, she will preserve that “right” (which btw she cannot find anywhere in the constitution).
136 Sharon N. – very quickly – the Supreme Court has ruled that Public Schools have to have Full Inclusion – meaning that the Public Schools have to accommodate all students of any and all disabilities. My child has a disability and thankfully he made it through. Others have not and the schools are being held responsible for that. Two, you idea of a nice letter home was tried by my wife as a principal of a middle school for a child deathly allergic to latex. You would not believe the commotion it caused because she asked the parents not to send their children to school with latex items. It does not work. The answer to your organic scenario is to get schools to serve organic lunches if you so desire, not to allow just anything a parent thinks they want to send to school for their child. One death and one major lawsuit is simply not worth the opportunity to pack a lunch to save a dime. Everyone thinks the schools today operate like they did when they went to school. They do not. We are a litigious society and we require the schools to accept everyone and to protect everyone. The schools must protect the students from all dangers or face legal action. Those not taking these steps are foolish.
136. Sharon – You can always choose not to send your child to public school if you do not want to abide by their safety standards; you have the right to insist on organic foods being served if indeed you can show the risk of non-organic foods. We chose to send ours and taught him about the risks of life; however, we are his parents and can take that risk, the Public Schools do not have that ability.
After trying to struggle through another stream of consciousness novella from SharonN, it seems that she is making the same argument that Jamie Radtke makes, that we have to stop the evil federal dept. of education in its quest to forbid all kids from packing lunches and bringing them to school. There’s just one small problem with that. It’s a made up issue
(just like the birther nonsense) with no basis in fact. There is not and has not been any effort from the dept of education (federal) to do any such thing. And the few examples of policies sited have been strictly local decisions The wingnuts who see a lurking federal agent behind every tree waiti g tro pounce upon them and take away their “rights” are just that—paranoid nuts.
SharonN
Never make a point in 50 words when you can use 500 or 1000. Because when you use 500 or 1000 most people with good sense will just ignore your message because they know it’ll be so convoluted that they can’t find it.
Oh for the love of Heaven, she thinks all these lunch packing parents are sending nutritionally balanced “organic” lunches. Wow!
Obviously you are capable of emoting, but comprehension still eludes you.
Please home school your child.
Dave:
In reference to your posts above and others…I don’t really pay much attention to your posts either…since the times that you have “spewed” that there is THIS evidence out there, and THAT evidence out there…or you have made outlandinsh statements, then, in spite of my repeated requests for you to back them up, I never get the requested “back up”. Although you ask me to back up anything and everything I say…even if it has been in the headlines and common knowledge.
I also have NEVER seen any meaningful contribution from you at all to the blog, all I ever see is insults and snarky remarks. So, I have no problem if you ignore my posts, I will likewise ignore yours. It seems I won’t be missing anything.
And Sandi….
You are another one…You have proven your self to be hopeless..when I first started reading your posts, I thought perhaps you were caring but misguided, THEN it seemed that you were typing your nonsense just to disagree with anything and everything a conservative may write, and I believed that for a LONG time since you contradicted your OWN posts numerous times just to disagree with and insult a conservative.
But now, it seems that the more I read, the more the REAL Marxist Sandi is emerging and I am not sure WHICH type of person you are..you are either..
1) A VERY fearful and weak individual who is afraid to make your own decisions, or think for yourself. It seems like every little bit of “decision making, or responsibility. or FREEDOM that the Government wants to take away from the “citizen”..YOU are ALL FOR IT!!!!! You think you NEED the government to take care of you, to protect you from yourself, or gasp, OTHERS who might make a mistake. When it comes to the Government, the bigger and the more controlling the better with you. “Thank you Sir, may I have another?” seems to be the Sandi Saunders Creed. OR
2) You are the type who so hates anyone who diagrees with you that you would have been in your “ideal” job if you had worked for the Nazi’s, putting the Jews on the train or executing them.
Either way, I am kind of through arguing with you too…please do what you said your were going to do long ago..and don’t respond to my posts, and I won’t respond to yours.
Many of you put me in mind of the quote (that I can’t remember WHO wrote it or exactly how it goes and I am not going to take the time to look it up right now) that goes something like this….Depart from us in Peace, those who are happy to lick the hand of your Master…may your chains rest lightly upon you as we strive to forget that you were once our Countrymen.
So, for those of who who might actually want to get into a discussion, and exchange differing points of view…I am here.
I am not Suzie…who BTW, Suzie, I truly admire your spunk and tenacity and I am on your side, and agree with most of what you say but, I rarely agree with the way you “present” the info and feel that you bring a lot of the controversy on yourself. Sorry (HUGS)
Anyhoo, to the rest of you….here I am, I am a conservative, but as you have seen from the posts I have made earlier, you are not going to be able to comfortably put me in one of your little “boxes” and dismiss me. I am not a FOX or Rush guru, I am not racist, I’m not rich, I am a Christian but I am not ever going to profess to be perfect, I have made many mistakes in my life..so I will definitely never pretend to be “holier than thou”..and I don’t fit into the box as a “gay” hater either…I know it sounds cliche, but I have had, and have, not one, but MANY friends in my life who have been or are gay who I respect etc. I may not agree with their lifestyle, or their nationwide agenda, but I don’t HATE them…never have. I have to admit that there are many gays who I have met who I take an instant liking to…for their sense of humor, for their candor, for their insight , for their art of conversation etc. Please understand that this doesn’t mean I am going to “pretend” to like any gay person I meet, just as I don’t pretend to like any black person I meet. I am not afraid to disagree with them or to call them on the carpet for their attitudes, if need be.
ANYHOO again, you have seen me post, you see I don’t just throw in insults to get everyone stirred up like many of you do. But I am likewise not afraid to call the cards as I see them. You have seen that I give the same respect I am given…or don’t give if I have not been given.
Fair warning, I am INFORMED..I know what’s going on. Don’t ask me to “prove” something that has been out there for all to see…I don’t have room on my computer to back up everything I have read in the last 4 years, and couldn’t find it in an instant if I did…I have filed a lot away in my mind though..and have kept some things…so, don’t ask me silly questions like ….”what lies has Obama told?”..because I can provide MANY!!..but I don’t feel I should HAVE to explain something that has been posted and backed up many times before. However, if there is something..like, Why do you think Obama is not a natural born citizen, and perhaps not even a citizen? IF you really care, I will explain, if you are using it as an excuse to insult…don’t bother. Or to say for example, why in the heck is Jaime Radtke talking about school lunches? Just ask, if I don’t know, I will try to find out.
I may not agree with you, but if you don’t disrespect me, I won’t direspect you. I live by the golden rule.
So, you all can let me know if you would truly like to discuss differing points of view. If no one does and this is just a Conservative/Tea Party bashing blog…fine, carry on…makes no difference to me.
Just let me know.
Dave:
In reference to your posts above and others…I don’t really pay much attention to your posts either…since the times that you have “spewed” that there is THIS evidence out there, and THAT evidence out there…or you have made outlandinsh statements, then, in spite of my repeated requests for you to back them up, I never get the requested “back up”. Although you ask me to back up anything and everything I say…even if it has been in the headlines and common knowledge.
I also have NEVER seen any meaningful contribution from you at all to the blog, all I ever see is insults and snarky remarks. So, I have no problem if you ignore my posts, I will likewise ignore yours. It seems I won’t be missing anything.
And Sandi….
You are another one…You have proven your self to be hopeless..when I first started reading your posts, I thought perhaps you were caring but misguided, THEN it seemed that you were typing your nonsense just to disagree with anything and everything a conservative may write, and I believed that for a LONG time since you contradicted your OWN posts numerous times just to disagree with and insult a conservative.
But now, it seems that the more I read, the more the REAL Marxist Sandi is emerging and I am not sure WHICH type of person you are..you are either..
1) A VERY fearful and weak individual who is afraid to make your own decisions, or think for yourself. It seems like every little bit of “decision making, or responsibility. or FREEDOM that the Government wants to take away from the “citizen”..YOU are ALL FOR IT!!!!! You think you NEED the government to take care of you, to protect you from yourself, or gasp, OTHERS who might make a mistake. When it comes to the Government, the bigger and the more controlling the better with you. “Thank you Sir, may I have another?” seems to be the Sandi Saunders Creed. OR
2) You are the type who so hates anyone who diagrees with you that you would have been in your “ideal” job if you had worked for the Nazi’s, putting the Jews on the train or executing them.
Either way, I am kind of through arguing with you too…please do what you said your were going to do long ago..and don’t respond to my posts, and I won’t respond to yours.
Many of you put me in mind of the quote (that I can’t remember WHO wrote it or exactly how it goes and I am not going to take the time to look it up right now) that goes something like this….Depart from us in Peace, those who are happy to lick the hand of your Master…may your chains rest lightly upon you as we strive to forget that you were once our Countrymen.
So, for those of who who might actually want to get into a discussion, and exchange differing points of view…I am here.
I am not Suzie…who BTW, Suzie, I truly admire your spunk and tenacity and I am on your side, and agree with most of what you say but, I rarely agree with the way you “present” the info and feel that you bring a lot of the controversy on yourself. Sorry (HUGS)
Anyhoo, to the rest of you….here I am, I am a conservative, but as you have seen from the posts I have made earlier, you are not going to be able to comfortably put me in one of your little “boxes” and dismiss me. I am not a FOX or Rush guru, I am not racist, I’m not rich, I am a Christian but I am not ever going to profess to be perfect, I have made many mistakes in my life..so I will definitely never pretend to be “holier than thou”..and I don’t fit into the box as a “gay” hater either…I know it sounds cliche, but I have had, and have, not one, but MANY friends in my life who have been or are gay who I respect etc. I may not agree with their lifestyle, or their nationwide agenda, but I don’t HATE them…never have. I have to admit that there are many gays who I have met who I take an instant liking to…for their sense of humor, for their candor, for their insight , for their art of conversation etc. Please understand that this doesn’t mean I am going to “pretend” to like any gay person I meet, just as I don’t pretend to like any black person I meet. I am not afraid to disagree with them or to call them on the carpet for their attitudes, if need be.
ANYHOO again, you have seen me post, you see I don’t just throw in insults to get everyone stirred up like many of you do. But I am likewise not afraid to call the cards as I see them. You have seen that I give the same respect I am given…or don’t give if I have not been given.
Fair warning, I am INFORMED..I know what’s going on. Don’t ask me to “prove” something that has been out there for all to see…I don’t have room on my computer to back up everything I have read in the last 4 years, and couldn’t find it in an instant if I did…I have filed a lot away in my mind though..and have kept some things…so, don’t ask me silly questions like ….”what lies has Obama told?”..because I can provide MANY!!..but I don’t feel I should HAVE to explain something that has been posted and backed up many times before. However, if there is something..like, Why do you think Obama is not a natural born citizen, and perhaps not even a citizen? IF you really care, I will explain, if you are using it as an excuse to insult…don’t bother. Or to say for example, why in the heck is Jaime Radtke talking about school lunches and why would anyone think that’s important? Just ask, if I don’t know, I will try to find out.
I may not agree with you, but if you don’t disrespect me, I won’t direspect you. I live by the golden rule.
So, you all can let me know if you would truly like to discuss differing points of view. If no one does and this is just a Conservative/Tea Party bashing blog…fine, carry on…makes no difference to me.
Just let me know.
Dang!! So sorry for the double post…I guess it took a while for the “paste” feature to work, and I tried again.