Oompah loompah on the Monday OPEN thread
The Raya Brass Band, Shot by Dan Sunday outside the Roanoke Public Library on Jefferson Street
If you didn’t make it downtown Sunday afternoon, you missed a great treat. The Raya Brass Band, a Brooklyn based quintet that bills itself as “the best in Eastern European Wedding Music,” made its Roanoke debut outside the public library on Jefferson Street.
This happened to be right around the corner from other festivities in Elmwood Park — a cake cutting that marked the the 6-month anniversary of Occupy Roanoke in Elmwood Park.
A photo from that event is after the jump.
Shot by Dan
April 16, 2012 - 10:00 AM
Let us never forget.
by Nikki Giovanni
We Are Virginia Tech
We are Virginia Tech.
We are sad today, and we will be sad for quite a while. We are not moving on, we are embracing our mourning.
We are Virginia Tech.
We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly, we are brave enough to bend to cry, and we are sad enough to know that we must laugh again.
We are Virginia Tech.
We do not understand this tragedy. We know we did nothing to deserve it, but neither does a child in Africa dying of AIDS, neither do the invisible children walking the night away to avoid being captured by the rogue army, neither does the baby elephant watching his community being devestated for ivory, neither does the Mexican child looking for fresh water, neither does the Appalachian infant killed in the middle of the night in his crib in the home his father built with his own hands being run over by a boulder because the land was destabilized. No one deserves a tragedy.
We are Virginia Tech.
The Hokie Nation embraces our own and reaches out with open heart and hands to those who offer their hearts and minds. We are strong, and brave, and innocent, and unafraid. We are better than we think we are and not quite what we want to be. We are alive to the imaginations and the possibilities. We will continue to invent the future through our blood and tears and through all our sadness.
We are the Hokies.
We will prevail.
We will prevail.
We will prevail.
We are Virginia Tech.
What’s the latest on “Rush Limbaugh in decline”?
Was it “klezmer” music? I wish I’d known…hope they come back sometime. At this time of year in Roanoke you can’t be gone one weekend without missing something fun downtown. We spent yesterday on the dock at the Lake though and I can’t say I’d have traded it.
Kristen,
They describe it as a mashup between Eastern European wedding music and American funk.
I’ll post this different take on the Martin/Zimmerman case on the Monday OPEN to give you time to feed on it.
I just realized that I neglected to enter the embed code for the Thursday OPEN thread. It’s updated now, folks. Enjoy the tune from Old Crow Medicine Show!
Love Old Crow Medicine Show. I got to be on stage with them at Floyd Fest a couple of years ago. That was Fun
Very cool, music on the streets we need more of that.
We will be doing some of that on Earth Day.
I wish the downtown area would have some “live musicians” instead of that canned music.
It seems warm, but it must not be spring yet. Because Dave promised us that OWS would be storming the country in the spring.
Looks like Rush Limbaugh is stronger than ever and OWS is dead. Gosh it must really be depressing to be a liberal.
terps,
The Virginia convention for OWS will be held in Elmwood Park May 19. Chapters from all over the state are coming. I bet you can’t wait. . .
Not at all #9 as a matter of fact is can be fun and no OWS is far from dead. It is just dead in “your” world. Kind of like a host of things that many on the right see as not that importance, like their war on women, their war on the poor and lord know what else.
As to Mr. ditto head well karma sure has a way of getting around sooner or latter.
terps@9 posted – “Looks like Rush Limbaugh is stronger than ever” – sorry terps, you are wrong, and as Dan predicted:
“In the wake of the controversy facing conservative radio icon Rush Limbaugh, with the calls for his advertisers to depart his program, for radio stations to pull his show and for conservatives to distance themselves from his rhetoric, Mike Huckabee — the former Arkansas governor and onetime presidential candidate — is throwing his hat into the ring Monday and directly facing Limbaugh on the airwaves.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/09/news/la-pn-mike-huckabee-to-challenge-rush-limbaugh-with-safer-alternative-20120408
“The quality of Rush’s national advertisers has gone from name brands we all know, to ads for obscure products and services, the kind that play on late-night TV infomercials, erectile dysfunction and other supplements, and companies that seem to build their brands around the extreme right wing conservative audience like Generation America, a company that bills itself as the conservative alternative to AARP.”
“Limbaugh’s new competitor, Mike Huckabee’s show debuted Monday in the same time slot as Limbaugh offering a less hateful alternative in the right wing talk show genre. ”
http://boycottrushlimbaughssponsors.com/2012/04/11/limbaughs-week-didnt-start-well-but-ours-did-join-the-growing-effort/#more-1046
The “Virginia Convention of OWS” is coming to Roanoke. Wow! The restaurants better prepare for some big tippers.
How did we manage to beat out Richmond and Lynchburg for this honor?I hope it is as successful as OWS in Oakland and LA. Maybe we can hope for a few less rapes and less filth than those gatherings.
terps, go down there yourself some Saturday or Sunday and talk to those people.
Why anyone would support a system so stacked against them really defies explanation. Terps, I think the blinders have permanently damaged some of your perception sensors. OWS is so much closer to what some of you say you support than you even seem to realize. It is not a hand out they are looking for, it is an equitable system that rewards not punishes hard work, effort and playing by the rules and punishes not rewards cheating, gambling and skirting the rules. Anyone who works for a living is cheated when gambling is treated as of more value than hard work.
Terps, I went down to the OWS birthday yesterday. No fornicating in the bushes, no drugs, no rapes, no police in sight, no trash…imagine that??
I did meet some intelligent, thoughtful concerned citizens.
Try it. You might like it.
terps rub shoulders with some OWS folks? Surely you must be dreaming. It might actually cause him to learn something instead of trumpeting Limbaugh and Faux talking points. What a disaster it would be for him to open up his mind and taske off the blinders.
terps@13 posted, “we can hope for a few less rapes and less filth than those gatherings.”
Please provide links to this made-up “fact” of rapes….
#13 I feared that terps had run out of rude, brainless inanities but I see I should have had more faith in him.
The vitriol and lies are hurting them all:
“To all Traffic Managers: The information below applies to your Premiere Radio Networks commercial inventory. More than 350 different advertisers sponsor the programs and services provided to your station on a barter basis. Like advertisers that purchase commercials on your radio station from your sales staff, our sponsors communicate specific rotations, daypart preferences and advertising environments they prefer… They’ve specifically asked that you schedule their commercials in dayparts or programs free of content that you know are deemed to be offensive or controversial (for example, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, Tom Leykis, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity). Those are defined as environments likely to stir negative sentiment from a very small percentage of the listening public.”
http://www.radio-info.com/news/when-it-comes-to-advertisers-avoiding-controversial-shows-its-not-just-rush
“On Thursday, Limbaugh’s program was practically devoid of paid advertisements, according to reports. Of the 86 spots that aired, 77 were “free public service announcements donated by the Ad Council.” Seven ads were from companies “in the process of pulling their spots.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/10/talk-radio-losing-advertisers_n_1336634.html
Put the koolaide down, hate is just not selling like it used to.
“The individual health mandate surely passes constitutional muster under settled judicial principles. The Constitution’s Commerce Clause grants Congress the authority “to regulate commerce … among the several States.” … The purported limit on congressional power favored by the mandate’s opponents—between constitutionally permissible regulation of “activity ” and unconstitutional regulation of “inactivity ”—is simply unknown to Commerce Clause jurisprudence, is wholly unworkable, and makes no economic sense. … I recognize that many persons believe the health mandate is very bad legislative policy. But the appropriate judicial response to such a complaint has long been clear. The Court was admirably forthright about the point in its ruling in Munn v. Illinois in 1876: “For protection against abuses by the Legislature, the people must resort to the polls, not the courts.”
If you’re keeping score, that’s five very prominent, very well-respected conservatives who have argued that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional. The other four are Charles Fried, Laurence Silberman, Jeffrey Sutton, and J. Harvie Wilkinson.”
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/102716/conservative-law-professor-defends-obamacare-mandate-constitutional
How bout them apples?
Interesting discussion on the Legal Ethics Forum:
http://tinyurl.com/78uq2xh
**
Trayvon Martin, Angela Corey, and Prosecutors’ Ethics
Special Prosecutor Angela Corey used her press conference to establish three things.
SNIP
Second, Ms. Corey and her team “did not come to this decision lightly.” Only after they were able to establish “the facts” and “the truth” through an “extensive” and “full investigation” has “the search for justice for Trayvon … brought us to this night” (i.e., the press conference announcing the filing of charges).
SNIP
ABA Std. 3-1.4(a): “A prosecutor should not make … an extrajudicial statement that a reasonable person would expect to be disseminated by means of public communication, if the prosecutor … reasonably should know that it will have a substantial likelihood of prejudicing a criminal proceeding.” Cmt. to 3.1: “the opinion of the lawyer on the guilt of the defendant, the merits of the case, or the merits of the evidence in the case” is “ordinarily likely to have a substantial likelihood of prejudicing a criminal proceeding.”
Corey: “We know only one category as prosecutors, and that is a ‘V.’ It’s not a ‘B,’ it’s not a ‘W,’ it’s not an ‘H.’ It’s ‘V,’ for victim. That’s who we work tirelessly for. And that’s all we know, is justice for our victims.” Corey also referred to “our precious victims.”
ABA Std. 3-2.1, cmt.: “The idea that the criminal law … is designed to vindicate public rather than private interests is now firmly established.”
ABA Std. 3-3.2, cmt.: “the prosecutor’s client is not the victim.”
SNIP
**
Question for you, Dan, (or anyone else) Re: Fair Use Doctrine.
As we know open public goverment documents and published standards such as ABA Std, can be quoted without the “limited amount quoted” (a.k.a, the “amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole”) restriction — as long as properly referenced.
In your opinion, when a copyrighted source publishes / quotes excerpts from such open documents (such as cited in my last comment) does that quote within a quote count toward the “limited amount quoted” restriction when citing the copyrighted material?
Dave Hicks I don’t understand the question. It must by an INTJ / ENTP thing.
#21 Actual constitutionality won’t matter to at least some of the right wingers on the court, Sandi. They HAVE to vote against it.
Interesting DaveH…..certainly calls into question the value of “Victim impact statements”.
The prosecutor’s “client” is the taxpaying public. It’s in all of our interests to have bloodthirsty vigilantes off the street…as such, good luck to Ms. Corey.
For the next time you are issued a ticket for failing to stop completely at a stop sign:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.0162v1.pdf
.
.
Re: Comment by Dan Casey — April 16, 2012 @ 4:45 pm
Hum? Let me try again.
We know that quotes of documents that are in the public domain are OK.
Do quotes from the public domain within quotes of copyrighted material count toward the “how much of the work” is reproduced?
If you think the chocolate fountains are full of germs, check this out. EWW!!
http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/The_first_ever_lickable_lift
Dave Hicks,
I don’t know the answer to the question. If I had to guess I’d say “no.” I don’t think you can assert a copyright claim to an except of a work that’s already in the public domain.
Re: #1 and most press coverage of the VT tragedy — another point of view not getting much coverage:
http://tinyurl.com/738eqo8
**
Mother of fallen Virginia Tech Student speaks out..
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – April 16, 2012 – 9AM – Contact – Ed Levine – VaGunRights@gmail.com
On April 16, 2007, my child, Leslie Sherman, was killed by Seung-Hui Cho during the Virginia Tech massacre. Today is the fifth anniversary of her death. Always in my memories, every day I wish that this tragedy was a nightmare and I could wake up to hold my daughter even if it is just one more time. That opportunity might have been possible if someone been able to defend and protect my daughter in her classroom before Cho took 30 precious lives.
There is an unfortunate drive for more gun control and the continuation of preventing guns on campus by parents whose children lived or survived during that fatal day. Several family members of those victims have actively voiced their support for increased gun control measures. As result, it has been assumed that they speak for all families of the Virginia Tech victims. I am writing this to make it clear that this is not the case. They do not represent me and my views.
Speaking for myself, I would give anything if someone on campus; a professor, one of the trained military or guardsman taking classes or another student could have saved my daughter by shooting Cho before he killed our loved ones. Because professors, staff and students are precluded from protecting themselves on campus, Cho, a student at Virginia Tech himself, was able to simply walk on campus and go on a killing rampage with no worry that anyone would stop him.
SNIP
**
Ack, Debbie. Talk about needing a Purel bath.
14.”terps, go down there yourself some Saturday or Sunday and talk to those people.”
Please report back and let us know if even 3 out of 10 know why they are occupying or what their mission statement is… if they have one. It may be a fun group, but it seems to be a purely social thing now.
Dave Hicks,
RE: campus murder shooting survivor’s mother. I wonder if they’ll criticize her qualifications to debate the topic seeing that she is equally as qualified as Lori Haas? That’ll be awkward for them.
Got my subject and comp confused! “RE: shooting survivor’s mother” should read “RE: shooting victim’s mother”.
(sarcasm on) Gosh, you are right Dave Hicks, no one has ever asserted that POV, certainly no victim has.(sarcasm off) Thanks for using that tragedy to further your agenda while berating others who do so.
http://tinyurl.com/6uo74ns
**
Zimmerman’s lawyer asks to have judge removed from case
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 6:25 PM EDT, Mon April 16, 2012
(CNN) — George Zimmerman’s defense team formally requested Monday that the Florida judge assigned to their client’s case be removed after she revealed her husband works with a CNN legal analyst.
SNIP
Meanwhile, news media organizations, including CNN, petitioned Recksiedler on Monday to reverse an order sealing court records in Zimmerman’s prosecution.
SNIP
**
Re: Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 16, 2012 @ 7:45 pm
Please show me a link to where I “berating others” for commenting on an event five years after the event.
I thought an earlier post of mine covered my position on this issue.
http://tinyurl.com/7r9z89s
**
IMHO, there is a world of difference between:
1) hyping about what is proved or not prove by a very recent incident (particularly a local issue)
v.
2) talking about 2A in general, various court cases, legislation, etc.
**
Allow me to expand that quote for those who misunderstood my position.
IMHO, there is a world of difference between:
1) hyping about what is proved or not prove by a very recent incident (particularly a local issue)
v.
2) talking about 2A in general, various court cases, legislation, shortly after a tragic event and/or talking about well know / well discussed earlier event as they apply to 2A in general, various court cases, legislation, etc.
———
In the same comment, I also posted:
**
So it would be ludicrous for anyone to say that there should never be a debate of the RKBA on the day of or very soon following a fatal shooting.
My objection is when either side to gleefully hype a very recent high profile killing (be it high profile nationwide or just locally for the readers) to advance their agenda in the heat of the moment.
**
In light of Sandi’s comment on my position, I would add to that statement, “That, IMHO, it would be even more ludicrous for anyone to say that there should never (at any time) be any reference to any tragic event in any debate of the RKBA.”
So one parent of 1 person (of 33) who died in the massacre has come out in favor of guns on value.
I feel bad about what happened to her daughter. It was a tragedy. But with regard to her viewpoint on guns on campus, she’s in the extreme minority. In this case, 3 percent.
I am very certain that those who use the Tech tragedy to push for wider gun possession and access are not at all pimping out the dead to advance a political point.
Much as I’m certain that those who would cite 4/16 in an effort towards greater gun accountability would be, you know, “dancing on the graves” of the victims to make a point.
Oh please, if you were not “dancing on a grave” I am a ballerina! And that conversation happened just the other day.
Dan, does being in the minority make one wrong? It took a lot of guts for her to say that knowing the emotional backlash that could come of it.
It took a lot of guts for the other victim’s families to “take a stand” too. But since that stand does not agree with yours it is not worthy of notice or discussion.
Comment by Dan Casey — April 16, 2012 @ 9:47 pm
“3 percent”
———-
Maybe.
I don’t know.
I have seen media refer to, “Thirty-two family members of individuals who were victims….” attending events. Very interesting wording.
However I’m not sure that mean each victim’s families was represented, or not. I would suspect some couples came to Washington today — maybe with siblings. So, I rather question that each victim’s families was represented.
However, my point was the lack of media mention (to my knowledge, to date) of even the one family member who is pro-less-restrictions-on-the-RKBA.
Wonder if any media investigative reporter even checked out that issue. Or, did they just run with various organizations’ press releases?
Re: Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 16, 2012 @ 10:05 pm
Oh please, if you were not “dancing on a grave” I am a ballerina! And that conversation happened just the other day.
———-
Links to what you are talking about, please.
Oh please DaveH look back a couple threads. It’s not Sandi’s job to spoon feed you what you’re choosing to ignore.
Otherwise known as “INSJTSFYWYCTI”
Dave, there were 33 people killed. There were other wounded. Of all those deaths and casualties, the parent of 1 victim of this tragedy is the first to issue a public statement in favor of guns on campus.
With 3 percent I was being charitable. If you count the wounded, the percentage of those who have come forward in support of guns is EVEN LOWER.
John Wilburn wrote:
“RE: campus murder shooting survivor’s mother. I wonder if they’ll criticize her qualifications to debate the topic seeing that she is equally as qualified as Lori Haas? That’ll be awkward for them.”
Last week, after Bill Cosby, who also lost a child to gun violence, spoke about the gun problem, John discounted his remarks because of a supposed lesser knowledge of guns. Yet John wants to make no judgement about this woman’s gun knowledge or how it affects her opinion. What do we think this says about John Wilburn’s credibility as a gun advocate?
Here I go again…Guns, guns guns. I’m sick of people pushing personal agendas to put a gun in every hand. If you want to go around armed a feeling like General Patton, go for it. Nobody is coming for your guns. Give it a rest…
I’m glad I went to the candlelight tonight at Tech. Hug your children every chance you get.
Dave Hicks, INSJTSFYWYCTI, but it’s TGJTMLTLOCTPIAURADBS!
(The government’s job to make legislation that limits our choices to prevent irresponsibility and unacceptable risk as determined by Sandi.)
Re: Comment by Kristen — April 16, 2012 @ 10:48 pm
Oh please DaveH look back a couple threads. It’s not Sandi’s job to spoon feed you what you’re choosing to ignore.
Otherwise known as “INSJTSFYWYCTI”
———
Kristen,
Looked.
As far as I can see, they are (or it’s) not there.
Saw some allegations that I had. Didn’t find an incidence or incidences that was / were alleged.
No need to spoon feed me a bunch. Show me one where I (not others) did it — after the shooting of Officer Deriek Crouse. That is the day I got disgusted with myself for getting sucked in to the dance on this blog.
There might be an incidence or worst yet incidences, which I missed. If so, I am remorseful and apologetic.
There are a number of different formats for debate. In all that I am aware of, the job of the positive side is to advocate a position and support it, while the job of the opposition side is to refute that position.
All I am asking is for her or you to produce some support / evidence of the contention made in the Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 16, 2012 @ 10:05 pm.
Dan,
If you are limiting the percent to the “first to issue a public statement in favor of guns on campus”, you are likely right.
I was focusing on your original statement, “has come out in favor.” Might well be folk who have come out in conversations with organizations such as Va Gun Rights, VCDL, etc but for any number of reasons have want to avoid publicity. I don’t know. Do you?
And as (to the best of my knowledge) the media didn’t report this public statement I not sure anything can be asserted with certainty.
Dave Hicks,
I honestly don’t see a big difference between “has come out in favor” and “issue a public statement in favor of guns on campus.” With the former, I was talking about the latter, but I endeavored to make that ultra clear when you questions the former.
“Yet John wants to make no judgement about this woman’s gun knowledge or how it affects her opinion.”
Hi Warren. I know you’re clawing at everything I say these days, but you’re reading what isn’t there. Lori Haas’ sole qaulification is being the mother of a victim, so is this woman’s. I’m NOT giving her extra credibility. It would be hypocritical of them to attack her credibility, but I won’t be surprised if they do. Whereas, Philip Van Cleave, who has a lot of credibility on the issues and has worked on these issues for decades was debating Lori Haas on a TV show last week. The resume of qualifications was very disproportional. That never seems to be an issue to the antis as emotion is a valid resume to them.
I made the point to see what the antis will say about her.
ColdNp @11:12
I heartily endorse that sentiment. For the past ten days+ Dave Hicks and John Wilburn have hijacked and turned every thread into a gun thread to advance their personal agenda to put a gun in every man woman and child’s hand in America. It has become quite tiresome. They are convincing nobody and they will jnever change their minds. It’s time to move on to more important topics. This horse has been dead for at least a week and now its carcass is starting to smell.
Marvelous Nitt, the obfuscator in chief, thought he was being funny and cute today when he told Diane Sawyer that his best advice for Barack Obama
was “to start packing.” I understand that Obama’s response, uttered in private, was for Mitt to “go ahead and strap the dog to the top of the car and get ready for an extended vacation.”
“It has become quite tiresome.”
I agree, and I sometimes carry. Enough is enough.
And dave, I hear that Ann Romney is going around laughing about Seamus these days, telling people their former dog loved that 11 hour ride, strapped in a cage to the top of the Romney wagon.
Actually the ride literally scared the s— out of that pooch (it wound up all over the car).
You get it? Scared sh–less = love.
It oughta be the new GOP motto.
Romney says the reason Fido crapped his pants is that he “got ahold of some bad turkey off the kitchen counter.” Like the Gotrocks servants would leave food out to spoil. The prez is ahead of Richie Rich by 9 percentage points in a CNN poll, pack this, Mittens.
57.“It has become quite tiresome.”
I agree too.
Dave Hicks,
The fact that Cho was able, despite his history of mental problems, was able to easily obtain his arsenal is a clear ergument in favor of more stringent gun laws. That step would have been more protective of the students, and staff of VT. Instead, because of advocates like you & John Wilburn, 33 people are dead. I have difficulty living with my view.
That should read “no” difficulty.
@Hillary,
Regarding your comment from the other day… this video is from Blacksburg. While I think that the guy was rude for not speaking at all, it just shows you that it is not necessary to speak with the police when you have done nothing wrong.
In fact, the officer approached this person BECAUSE someone called the police about him. Again, still not required to speak with them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n1BHJs5V5c
No one is going to trash that parent John Wilburn, you can wait till you BS freezes, it is not going to happen. Grieving parents get a pass from me on just about anything. You do not.
“TGJTMLTLOCTPIAURADBS!
(The government’s job to make legislation that limits our choices to prevent irresponsibility and unacceptable risk as determined by Sandi.)”
That is nothing but a lie and I have repeatedly told you that. NOTHING in what I have proposed doing “limits your choices” in any way.
Dave Hicks, when a good man stays silent it is the same as participating IMO. If you see that differently feel free to wax on with verbiage no one can decipher and give us the scientific name for it.
Speaking of Willard the Corporate Raider:
Obviously we know that only the poor should work while raising children:
http://www.americablog.com/2012/04/mitt-romney-thinks-his-wife-lacks.html
“I said, for instance, that even if you have a child two years of age, you need to go to work… I want individuals to have the dignity of work.”
So much for the sanctity of a “stay at home” and torture your dog, mom.
Dan – can we have a thread that is a “gun free zone”? The repetition of the gun lobbyists on this blog provide no educational nor enlightening information…same old same old each and every thread.
To sum up their point of view – “everyone you encounter in daily life secretly wants to rob, rape and kill you, and the police are useless to protect you”…
Got it – now can we move on?
Kristen, I think the wall thing could be marketed as a weight loss plan. Get the taste without the calories. It could be called the LAW Diet.
@Hillary,
I was just rebutting your argument that you are required to provide your name to the police officers.
In this local instance, the officer had received calls about a suspicious person… even in that case, the person was not required to provide ANY information to the police officer.
“I said, for instance, that even if you have a child two years of age, you need to go to work… I want individuals to have the dignity of work.”
I wonder if Ann knows she lacks the “dignity of work”.
Mitt literallly never says the same thing twice. It’s remarkable.
Yes John Wilburn, Warren, Kristen, Hillary, and I are all just picking on innocent, integrity laden little you. It has nothing to do with the BS you post, honest.
Hillary:
66.”Dan – can we have a thread that is a “gun free zone”?”
Be careful what you ask for Hillary. Remember the “gun free zones” are where all the murderous shooting sprees happen. It would be better asking him for Utopia, that he offers daily. You know, the place where no one carries guns, you may never be held responsible for buying a house you cannot afford, and the peaks of wealth are all forcibly cut off and used to fill the valleys of poverty and underachievement.
You don’t want a gun-free-zone. Those are complete failures.
By the way, it’s the anti-RKBA people who made Martin/Zimmerman about guns after getting their fill on making it about race and they’ve drug that from thread to thread. It was the antis who bring up the TWO guns thing anytime it’s convenient to attack my logic on anything as a way to escape a weak argument. It’s the antis who have imported the shooting tragedies to the threads; I’m only responding.
You are perfectly entitled to want a break from talking about gun rights, just as I was way beyond sick of the anti-Santorum, trans-vaginal ultrasounds, and birth control stuff.
Peace folks. I have to go to work….
John Wilburn, we want a specific thread on this blog for gun related posts only. That way we don’t have to read about guns in every single thread!! It has gotten far beyond old and tired.
Debbie,
Dan has made guns one of the “normal” topics of this blog. My post was a response to a specific post by Hillary.
I know he has, Jack, sigh.
Comment by Ron — April 17, 2012 @ 6:30 am
The fact that Cho was able, despite his history of mental problems, was able to easily obtain his arsenal is a clear ergument in favor of more stringent gun laws. That step would have been more protective of the students, and staff of VT. Instead, because of advocates like you & John Wilburn, 33 people are dead. I have difficulty living with my view.
———-
Ron,
Cho slipped through a failure in or misunderstanding of the reporting and monitoring requirements about out-patient psychiatric treatment — not any sort of failure or laxity of restrictions-on-the-RKBA.
Cho passed the background check and bought his two firearms (arsenal???) from FFL dealers.
He passed because of failures in following / understanding the mental health code. Had the mental health folk and VT staff done what was expected of them, Cho would not have passed the background checks — as he would have been on the Virginia State Police (CJIS) CCRE prohibited persons list. Your “despite his history of mental problems” actually point to the real issue — the lack of reporting his history of mental problems, as many experts interpreted the law as requiring, even at that time.
Those reporting requirements have been clarified and strengthen (See: § 37.2-814. Commitment hearing for involuntary admission; written explanation; right to counsel; rights of petitioner and See: § 37.2-817.1. Monitoring mandatory outpatient treatment; petition for hearing and See: § 37.2-819. Order of involuntary admission or involuntary outpatient treatment forwarded to CCRE; certain voluntary admissions forwarded to CCRE; firearm background check. )
FYI, Pro-less-restrictions-on-the-RKBA organizations were very instrumental in getting these laws strengthened and clarified.
FWIIW, I was in Richmond, lobbing, negotiating, etc in support of the revised § 37.2-814 So don’t assume that I have not worked to forestall another missed “history of mental problems.”
The really sad thing is that the state mental health folk are now reporting the they do not have the funds to follow all the mandates placed on them by law. If folk want to make improvements in dealing with the required monitoring get involved in the budget process.
———
BTW, Not sure I understand your, ” I have difficulty living with my view.” Typo?
Re: Comment by Ron — April 17, 2012 @ 6:33 am
That should read “no” difficulty.
———
Opps.
Ron,
Hadn’t gotten there when I read and commented on your 6:30 am comment.
Got it.
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Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 17, 2012 @ 8:13 am
Dave Hicks, when a good man stays silent it is the same as participating IMO.
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Huh?
Who staying silent? Participating in what?
Re: Comment by Hillary — April 17, 2012 @ 8:17 am
IMHO, the repetition of the Pro-less-restrictions-on-the-RKBA crowd is far and away exceeded by the repetition of the Pro-more-restrictions-on-the-RKBA crowd and generally the comments of the Pro-less-restrictions-on-the-RKBA crowd are in rebuttal of the ongoing rantings of the Pro-more-restrictions-on-the-RKBA crowd — maybe not in the same thread but across this blog in general.
FWIIW, your alleged summation, “everyone you encounter in daily life secretly wants to rob, rape and kill you, and the police are useless to protect you” is a classic Straw-man (counterfeit and weaker than the opponent’s actual position) and is an example of what tends to perpetrate these debates. In essence, you call for a “cease fire” then lob off another round, yourself.
Where the Pro-more-restrictions-on-the-RKBA crowd (and particularly Dan) to back off the attacks on the RKBA I strongly suspect the discussion of RKBA would disappear from this blog all together.
It is not reasonable to expect one side to withdraw without refuting the ongoing attacks of the other.
If folk don’t want to debate, stop digging at the RKBA.
Re: Comment by Jack — April 17, 2012 @ 11:44 am
Dan has made guns one of the “normal” topics of this blog. My post was a response to a specific post by Hillary.
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Re: Comment by Debbie — April 17, 2012 @ 11:48 am
I know he has, Jack, sigh.
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Holy Mackerel!!!
We actually have some level of consensus on a discussion related to RKBA.
Who’da’thunk
Dan, you listening?
Dave Hicks @77 – My comment was not an attack but a summation of the comments on the maaaaany threads where guns are “discussed”. Nothing but “be afraid, be very afraid.”.. or, how the police know less than the average gun toting paranoid guy…or, how we who profess not to want nor carry a weapon every minute of our day, will be sorry when the bogeyman get us or, how we will have to hide behind the gun slinging “savior” and then thank them for carrying, or my favorite, “they are going to come and take our guns” theme. I have heard it- I get it – no new arguments or none that are particularly persuasive. No amount of providing the basis for an opinion to control the flow of weapons, or discussion of reasonable legislation get through. “Discussions” have normally degenerated into character assassination and arrogant tones… nobody learns from demeaning language or a holier-than-thou rhetoric…and that’s what is posited from some gun “advocates” on this blog.
Beat my head against the wall? Naaah, not today.
#78 My comment doesn’t mean I or others, want to see posts about guns on every thread, which is pretty much what has been happening lately.
72.”John Wilburn, we want a specific thread on this blog for gun related posts only. That way we don’t have to read about guns in every single thread!! It has gotten far beyond old and tired.”
80.”#78 My comment doesn’t mean I or others, want to see posts about guns on every thread, which is pretty much what has been happening lately.”
Santorum, GOP bashing, Rush Limbaugh, and birth control were drug across way more unrelated threads than I care to remember. Those are your favorite issues to discuss, so that was okay.
Sorry to offend you, John W. Some of us just don’t live and breath guns. If I never had to see another word about Rush Limbaugh, I would be a happy camper.
“If I never had to see another word about Rush Limbaugh, I would be a happy camper.”
Amen Debbie! The point is, we all have things we’re passionate about and just because I’m in the minority on this blog doesn’t mean the anti-RKBA folks are any better about not running a topic into the ground. it’s just harder to notice when you discuss it more often on your own.
Oh, by the way, you have not offended me. Kristen, Sandi, and maybe once Dan has offended me. I’ve taken some warranted and unwarrented crap from other posters, but that’s part of coming to a lefty political blog. It’s cool.
Kristen and Sandi have called me a liar, which is uncalled for. Even if I’m wrong, I’m not lying as I’m telling what I believe. I think some of their stuff is ridiculous on the highest order, but I do think they believe it and have never called either of them a liar.
I agree, and I sometimes carry. Enough is enough.
I will guarantee you this screen beret has never discharged a firearm in his life.
“I will guarantee you this screen beret has never discharged a firearm in his life.”
Will you stake your PERMANTENT RETIREMENT FROM THIS BLOG on whether or not Art Hill has ever discharged a firearm to “guarantee” us?
Art Hill, If she agrees to this, please post a clip of you squeezing a few rounds out of your Glock.
“Suzie says:
‘I agree, and I sometimes carry. Enough is enough.’
I will guarantee you this screen beret has never discharged a firearm in his life.
Posted on April 17th, 2012
A guarantee from you, Screwzie, doesn’t mean jacksh*t.
This is the perfect example of why you are a nasty, hateful troll. The only reason you have ever commented on a RKBA thread is to insult someone. You don’t make your case, for or against, in your usual uncompromising way, probably because you don’t know sh*t about RKBA (although being ignorant on other issues has never kept you from commenting). In this particular case, you had to go back several comments to find someone to insult. You’re nothing but a troll.
But, hey, since you jumped on in here, what are your thoughts on RKBA? Oh, wait, nevermind. No one cares.
This is the perfect example of why you are a nasty, hateful troll. You don’t make a case for or against….you just find someone to insult
And tell us your entire stated purpose in the blog again? Save the sermonette, hypocrite. It doesn’t become you.
Art Hill, If she agrees to this, please post a clip of you squeezing a few rounds out of your Glock.
LMAO. Poodle wouldn’t know a glock from a clock. S(he) might break a nail if s(he) ever indeed tried to discharge one.
Re: Comment by Ron — April 17, 2012 @ 6:30 am
and
Re: Comment by Dave Hicks — April 17, 2012 @ 1:27 pm
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http://tinyurl.com/bssjdym
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Posted at 01:01 PM ET, 04/19/2012
McDonnell urges governors to improve gun background checks
By Anita Kumar
Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) has sent every governor in the nation a letter asking for support in improving background checks for gun purchases.
SNIP
“The commonwealth of Virginia continues to be a leader in submitting information,’’ McDonnell wrote. “I would encourage you to evaluate your state’s reporting of mental health and other critical information to NICS, and take any required action relating to that reporting to prevent tragedies such as the shooting at Virginia Tech from happening again.”
SNIP
Twenty-three states and the District have submitted fewer than 100 mental health records to the federal database, according to a November 2011 report. Seventeen states have submitted fewer than 10 mental health records, and four states have not submitted any records. Forty-four states have submitted fewer than 10 records about the use of controlled substances, and 33 have not submitted any records, according to the report.
SNIP
**
As I said, Cho slipped through a failure in or misunderstanding of Virginia’s reporting and monitoring requirements about out-patient psychiatric treatment — not any sort of failure or laxity of restrictions-on-the-RKBA. And the Pro-less-restrictions-on-the-RKBA worked to get the real problem fixed.
However, this confirms what we knew (but I couldn’t find the links for earlier) about the real problem.
NAACP weighs in supporting “Stand Your Ground” law:
http://tinyurl.com/7hfqb2c