Sunday’s column: Sorry teachers! (you got HOSED)
Jaquen | Wikimedia Commons | Text by Dan
MEMO
To: Public schoolteachers
From: The commonwealth of Virginia
Dear teachers,
Thank you for your service. You do an amazing job. Every school day, you expand the minds of children who want to be taught, and gracefully handle the young hellions who don’t.
You’re working many nights, too, coaching school athletics, grading papers or writing lesson plans, while the rest of us watch “Dancing With the Stars” or “American Idol” or shows about commercial fishermen in Alaska.
You take pride in understanding that education is about the future. Quite literally, you’re preparing the minds of the people who will be leading this commonwealth in the decades to come.
For all of the above, the taxpayers of Virginia owe you a big, fat “thanks.” So give yourselves 150 pats on the back as we segue into the not-so-pleasant subject of your pensions.
TO READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN CLICK HERE.
April 22, 2012 - 6:00 AM
Yes you poor teachers. You now have to pay 5% towards your pensions, just like every other state employee has done for the last year. But unlike every other working stiff, you also get Christmas break and the summer off.
It’s practically slavery. If you define slavery as “the average annual teacher salary in Virginia was around $52,000 in 2009 according to the VDOE”.
Good stuff, Dan.
Henry’s right about what Virginia teachers earn, on average. But the fact is, there are more teachers in northern Virginia, which the costliest place in the state to live, and the numbers from NoVa skew the average. And in many respects, we’re talking about degreed professionals who have 20 or more years of experience. And the higher, skewed-by NoVa average is still below average in the U.S.
Henry seems burned up by the fact that Virginia teachers earn, on average, more than your average McDonald’s manager.
I honestly don’t think he’ll be satisfied until teachers are earning the minimum wage, on average. But then, he’ll shift his complaint to the quality of education students are getting, and demand teachers be paid less.
Teachers are not State employees! State employees should be glad that educators fund about 52% of the VRS. The VRS is another case, whereas some poorly chosen investments have cost the system a lot of money.
I know of teachers that have taught for 25+ years, and still don’t make anywhere near $52k. However, there’s some inequities, including ‘good-ole-boy/girl’ ‘insider’ payments that include certain stipends and contracts that are lengthened for payment, but no work is required.
Henry, despite your dim view of public educators, the reality is that, were you to send your child to a public school, the educators therein would do their level best to engage your child and provide a quality education. Despite your dim view, Henry, the institution of public education in these United States, flawed as it is, stands as one of the prime reasons the United States excels on a global scale. Henry, despite your dim view of public educators, you benefit everyday from the work of these dedicated public servants.
Thank you, Dan, for shining a little light on Henry’s dim views.
#2 As Dan points out, the average is NOT $52,000 in many areas of the state. And, Henry, do you really consider $52,000 some sort of exotic salary for folks with college degrees, many of then with two or three degrees? Seriously?
And of course Henry forgets to mention that “the summer off” is actually less than 2 months and that much of that time is spent preparing for the next year or working another job to make ends meet. I know teachers who wait tables, landscape, run an eBay business and many other things during that time — because they have to to maintain just a decent lifestyle. I also don’t know many teachers who work as little as 40 hours per week when school is in.
Henry, thanks again for showing us the bitter hatred and extreme doltishness of a true Freeper.
There was this high school teacher who two of my children had. He was an extraordinary teacher. Every day, my kids would come home discussing a different topic regarding history or geopolitics he had raised in class. He challenged them to think.
He was married, and he and his wife had three young children. She was a stay-at-home mom who earned some extra money tutoring. They bought their clothes at thrift stores and he rode his bike to school.
Eventually, he wrote a book that was a big success (it was about teaching). So he gave up teaching in schools to focus on that — for his family’s sake. He couldn’t afford to keep teaching in Roanoke schools.
It was a huge loss to that high school, and to the future students who never got a chance to benefit from his skills.
It may be true, as Know Nothing says, that poorly chosen investments have hamstrung the VRS. I’m unaware of any specific bad investments that have caused that.
However, there is no question that BORROWING money form the pension fund to balance the state budget (to avoid tax increases, or draconian layoffs) was a poor decision. And so was deliberately UNDERFUNDING the pension system, which is merely another way of borrowing from it.
Dan,
My daughter had that same teacher. He was, by far, one of the best teachers she ever had. He made her think. And even though we did not always share the same views, I appreciated his willingness to share his views and start the discussion. She learned a lot about how to think for herself in his class.
I am friends with him on FB and enjoy his daily posts.
Thank you so much for your column. And to Henry: I have a BS, two advanced degrees, around 16 years experience and make around $42K. My husband laughs hysterically when comments are made about the easy job teachers have knowing the extended hours that must be put in, the summer professional development (that I pay for),the supplies paid for out of my pocket, etc… I sure didn’t ever expect to become wealthy – I entered this field because I LOVE teaching and I am darn good at it!
Dan is right – the underfunding of the system and the present push to load the backs of the already burdened local governing bodies is, and was, wrong.
Lynda K,
Regarding the teacher we’re both thinking about, one of the horrible ironies is that he’s a conservative. He never jammed his ideology down his students’ throats, but if they asked he told them where he stood and why.
I didn’t care a bit about that — he knew how to teach, and he knew how to make students think, and I could see that just about every evening at the dinner table.
The tragedy was that he was lost to high school students of the future because the education system didn’t pay him a wage he could even live modestly on.
And Henry, of course, believes the guy was overpaid!
Dan… Yes, our teacher is a fairly conservative Christian. I can see we both appreciated the fact that he never shied away from discussing his views with his class. I think it is telling that as a conservative Christian, he could share those views and we, as liberal parents, applaud him for helping our children see all sides of an argument. If he had been a liberal, atheist, the conservative parents would have drummed him out of there long ago.
I think his heart is in a good place. He does what he does out of love… not out of a feeling of superiority. He is the epitome of a “good” Christian.
I agree in the irony. I have quite a few friends who are teachers… and who are conservatives… heck, even tea party members. I don’t get it…
Dan, this is the one issue where I stray. I finally liked one of your articles. But as I have said before, I vote morals first, then economics.
14 years in education .. $37,000
Pete..im still looking for your source on USGS
and our voluminous oil that Obama is hiding from us.
Well,
You can get additional jobs, but we actually have stated policies in many school districts that discourage teachers from doing so. It’s frowned upon, and there may be consequences for doing it. School boards take a dim view of it.
The worst is for teachers just starting out. I know many, many young people who have come into the profession whose salaries haven’t changed a bit since they were hired.
The other point about average salary that Henry must be ignorant about is that fact that decent salary isn’t obtained when you sign your first contract. Take Salem, for instance. They have a reputation for paying teachers pretty well, but they start on the high end and slowly modify teacher pay over time. In this region, it often takes 15 to 20 years before you reach a higher salary. In the Salem example, it’s actually 22 years, and that’s assuming the economy supports enough revenue for it to work. In my lifetime, that’s been a 50/50 proposition. Anyone can go to a school district’s website and find their salary schedules.
I did, in fact, leave education for the private sector for a couple years strictly for money. After making 32 grand in Franklin County after seven years, I opted for a meaningless job that paid significantly more money. Then, when the economy turned south, the company folded and I found myself looking for work again. Still, the brief foray into a better salary made a big difference for my family.
As for the holidays, teachers didn’t create the school calendar. It’s antiquated and should be changed. But, if you want me to work eight more weeks of the year, then I think the taxpayers should be obliged to pay me for it. Personally, I like the free time because I do work very had at making additional money.
@1: I am rarely moved to violent thought, but Henry’s idiotic, ill-informed and sarcastic comment has put me in an arse-kicking mood. I know a lot of teachers and know them well. They bust their collective butts daily to educate largely indifferent students using skimpy or nonexistent budgets to try to meet the needs of those same students. And no, I don’t think $52K/year is nearly enough to compensate them for what they try to accomplish; and that includes answering to administrators, peers and parents. They deserve more. Much more. But most of all they need support from people like Henry, but people like him are too busy painting the entire profession with a bad brush.
The main thing that “hamstrung” the nVRS investments was the Bush recession and the subsequentdevaluing of the stock market. The VRS fund is also not designed to be a fund that goes for speculative and risky investments. That money is a public trust and sound financial policy requires that the money be invested in safer instruments which typically pay lower yields. The State of Va. has absolutely reneged on and abdicated its responsibility for maintaining this fund. It accepted that responsibility in lieu of paying higher salaries for its employees, especially teachers. Then under the guise of “fiscal reponsibility” and through the cowardice of its legislators and governors, it has walked away from its obligation. That is shameful.
Governor Ultrasound and his Republican colleagues in the House (and now in thje Senate) can brag all they want about balancing the budget without a tax increase. Anyone with eyes and a brain can clearly see that what they have done is balance it by borrowing money from its employees and teachers and by forcing local governments into untenable positions in which they will be forced to rasise taxes to maintain services. Their ultiomate goal is to privatize as many services as possible, including schools. Thus people will pay more for the services but the politicians can claim “but we didn’t raise your taxes”.
Saintbridge
Are you saying that saying that teachers are getting an average of $52k a year is “painting them with a bad brush”?
It’s amazing that all these teachers are upset because they were exposed to facts about their profession. The average salary, the time off, they will have for their pension like state employees, etc. Simply facts. Yes some teachers make less than $52k but some teachers obviously make more than $52k. Hence the term “average”.
I suspect the teachers are most upset because they wanted to play the victim.
“I suspect the teachers are most upset because they wanted to play the victim.”
Comment by Henry.
I suspect the teachers are most upset because the General Assembly has reneged on a promise they made to teachers in 1983, in a way that will certainly put the damper on their future raises.
By the way, Henry, perhaps the other thing teachers are upset about is that Virginia just passed a bill allowing tax credits to corporations for the purpose of funding private-school scholoarships.
In other words, private schools (which generally pay their teachers much less) got a taxpayer subsidy that will help expanding those private schools. That will also help keep techer wages down in Virginia’s public schools.
My wife teaches special needs student at the elementary level. Because my career has moved us sseveral she has taught in three States. She arrives at school everyday by 7:15 a.m. She typically arrives home after 6:00 p.m. daily. Most weekends she spends a few hours on both Saturday & Sunday going through student files & preparing individual plans for each student she serves. Because her students come from multiple classrooms, everything she does has to be coordinated with every teacher to whom her students are assigned to assure what she works on with each students meets the criteria & plans in that classroom.
She has earned two Masters degrees and all but the dissertation in a doctoral program. She been honored as an outstanding teacher in the three states in which has taught. She continues to take online and face to face seminars to develop her skills. In the summer she sleeps late and plays tennis in the morning. In the afternoons she gets back to work and begins to develop plans for her upcoming year’s students. She is, the most disciplined, dedicated teacher I’ve ever met. She is worth more to the communities she has served than I could ever hope to be. Still my income is 3 times hers. Our values, related to education are screwed up. You got the education you got through your own good efforts. However absent the dedicated teachers who guided you over the years, in my view, your intellectual growth would likely have stunted at best.
Yes….Obama’s hiding the undiscovered oil from us. And other things I learned online.
My mother retired from teaching in NJ a few years ago and was making north of 6 figures when she retired…and her retirement isn’t much less. I suspect that teacher pay has a lot to do with where your district is…of course, property taxes up there are probably 10x what they are here.
I’d also say that this piece somewhat exaggerates the ease of the private sector job. There are evenings I’m making my way back from Danville or Lynchburg and don’t catch all the tv I would like. There are evenings spent in the office after work studying for some new professional designation. There’s also the summer days I ran home at lunch, grabbed my kids and their swim trunks, and dropped them at the Elks before heading back to work for the rest of the day. And at the Elks they were joining most of their teachers. I don’t begrudge them the time off, but I’m not going to pretend that education is some indentured servitude.
Like all jobs public and private sector, it’s got its ups and downs.
Oh, Henry, Henry, Henry, become educated on the subject about which you write. I am a twenty-two year veteran of the teaching profession and I don’t yet make $52,000 a year. I do get Christmas off, but I rarely “take” Sunday off, or Saturday, or the evenings. I work every day and every night for ten plus months a year. During the summer, I plan for the next year. I arrive at school early and I leave late. There is no other way to do my job and do it well. I spend my money, hundreds of dollars a year, on classroom supplies, or supplies for children in need. I call parents at night … blah, blah, blah. Henry, you couldn’t handle the job I love.
“I suspect the teachers are most upset because they wanted to play the victim.”
I suspect you are wrong.
I haven’t really heard many of my colleagues complain much about anything because most are thankful to have jobs. Times are tough, a everyone knows it, and most people realize sacrifices have to be made. We also chose a profession with full knowledge of what the pay is.
Having a state government that manages a retirement system poorly is a legitimate thing to be upset about.
So Henry
Let’s take a look at a typical school system for our region Roanoke County. A first year teacher makes 35700. For being loyal and sticking to the profession after 15 years the teacher has been rewarded with salary increases all the way up to 42622. After20 years it 45379. after 25 years its 49882. Finally after 26 years, the teacher gets all the way up to the state “average” of 52126. If the teacher was conscientious and worked to keep up with skills and improve their position bygetting a nmasters degree, after 23 years they’d be getting an extra 2275 per year (at 15 years that would only be 1870 per year. That “average” pay for the Roanoke County teacher who has devoted a life to teaching after 25 years is going to be way the hell less than 52000 a year. There are some supplements available for teachers who take on the additional responsibility of being sponsors, coaches, dept. heads, etc. For those the pay starts at an average of 7.25 per hour and goes all the way up to $9.13 per hour for a head coach in football or basketball inahigh school.
Roanoke County pays its trash collecors more than 7.25 per hour.. My daughter who is a teacher, brings additional work home virtually every day and most weekends She spends multiple hours in the summer time developing new materials and updating units and lesson plans. She is required to enroll in and take additional classes to renew certification. That comes out of her pocket. So does 500 to 700 dollars worth of supplies and materials each year including supplemental materials, books, etc. For that she gets to deal with 130 studentsa day Some of them care. Many do not and for those there is little to no support from parents who think Johnny or Susie can do no wrong. She puts up and deals with the occasional fight between students, and the students with the bad attitudes who will say anything including calling the teacher a “bitch” or MFer with little support from parents or others a who are terrified of courts and useless suits likwe the recent one against the botetourt County teacher. And for that, now the state wants to rnege on its promise and obligation to fund her retirement system. You sir, do not have a clue!
Henry’s education obviously didn’t include learning the difference between median and mean. If, as he seems to be, he’s thinking that an approximately equal number of teacher salaries across the state fall on either side of the 52K line, he’s mistaken. The number of teachers in the state’s richest school district, Fairfax County, and a few more districts, earn salaries high enough over 52K to bring the average to that figure, but a significant numerical majority of teachers in the rest of the state are well under that figure.
I became a teacher “late in life”, after having worked for years in other positions in the school system. I knew good and well that a teaching career would never render me wealthy. Its rewards are intangible. I knew I’d work long hours. I knew those things before I started. I’ve never wanted more than was promised me. I just want what I was told I would get.
When people say that teachers “have summer off,” they don’t realize the schoolwork and prep and continuing training and further education (often at their own expense. A few of the responders have noted this. What no one has said outright, and apparently what Henry doesn’t know, is that teachers are not paid for the time off in the summer. Teachers do a full year’s work (and then some), but are only paid for 10 months of it.
Virginia is a classic example of how to boost employee moral – reduce salary by 5% and then ask them to educate another ten students in each classroom. The teaching profession has been under the gun for years with little or no raises, pressure to perform under no child left behind, new teaching concepts every year or two, full inclusion of all children in the classroom, not to mention all the social problems they contend with each and every day. Cutbacks in funding means no nurses to hand out high powered prescriptions to the children that have to have them, no aids to help watch 30 eight year olds just so you can get a 5 minute bathroom break. Teachers arrive a half hour or more before school, take at most a 30 minute lunch break, and leave at least a half hour after school to go home and grade papers and plan for the next day. They spend their evenings studying a child’s statistics and learning needs, calling parents, attending required school events, preparing a day’s lessons on the five to six different subjects they teach. Do you have any idea how much preparation it takes to stand in front of 30 8 year olds for six and a half hours and come up with something to teach them and entertain them and to corral them with only a 30 minute break at best. Or better yet, teach middle school where all the 30 14 year olds are only interested in what their peers have to say. Only the bravest and most loving of teachers opt for middle school. Teaching is a job only for those that truly love children and truly want to be there. The pay simply is awful and the pressure unbelievable. The State of Virginia has asked them to take a 5% cut in pay while cutting back teachers and adding to their daily burden just so the GOP can claim they did not raise taxes. Outrageous.
28. Please except my apologies, “morale”.
“Henry, you couldn’t handle the job I love.”
And yet, you complain about it. It’s such a burden.
Once again, the Virginia DOE says the average teacher salary is $52,000 a year. I didn’t say that. It’s not in my handwriting. I’m just telling you what it says. It’s not my fault. Complain to them.
So when you say “Oh how horrible. The teachers will have to pay into their pension at 5% just like everyone else”, I’m not renting my garment over it. I’ll have compassion for the cashier at Kmart who makes $16,000 a year if she has to put 5% into her pension as I had to do in the corporate world. If a teacher has to put 5% into a program that will pay them after they retire, I can’t work up the froth. We all have to do that. Why does someone averaging $50k a year get an exclusion?
Welcome to the world we all have to live in. We are glad you finally joined us.
“I’ll have compassion for the cashier at Kmart who makes $16,000 a year if she has to put 5% into her pension as I had to do in the corporate world. If a teacher has to put 5% into a program that will pay them after they retire, I can’t work up the froth. We all have to do that. Why does someone averaging $50k a year get an exclusion?
Welcome to the world we all have to live in. We are glad you finally joined us.”
Henry, did you have the expectation going into your job(s) in the “corporate world” that you would be expected to put aside a portion of your pay for retirement?
Did your bosses in the “corporate world” ever take back any of the raises they gave you?
Are you referring to ME, Henry? You haven’t heard ME complaining! As far as the average salary goes, I’d imagine that in averaging, supervisor and NOVA salaries are included.
I’m not complaining, Henry. I’m just telling you like it is! Actually, I’m not NEARLY telling you how it is!
Henry, Mrs. Viola Swamp must have been mighty mean to you. You seem angry.
It’s obvious Henry’s teachers failed him miserably.
Excellent column Dan! Funny how the only workers some people can value are the ones on Wall Street and the ones in corporate ivory towers.
Teachers have a pretty thankless job overall and yet so critical to this nation that their pay/benefits and the respect they are given is insulting. Teachers do not go into their career “for the money” but they deserve more and they most certainly should enjoy our respect and support and they can’t even count on that, unless they are sued for putting hands on a student that is. I guess we know where that puts students on the totem pole, don’t we? If we demand the best, pay for it.
Actually, I am pretty sure Henry has never expressed “compassion” for any workers, Kmart’s or anyone else’s. I think that is a sham.
And “in the REAL world” that “Kmart worker” either has no 401K, or is the only one paying a dime into it more often than not. But that is not the point. People far less valuable to society than teachers have their 401K fully funded, like their health insurance and many more perks they do not deserve or even “earn”. This constant game of Henry’s to drag some off the wall comparison into a discussion to derail the conversation and demean the point is so pitifully typical.
So sorry to hear that Henry has to “rent” his garments. Surely his church
has a clothes pantry that could relieve him of that burden. Then maybe he wouldn’t have to continue being angry and acting like the turd in the swimming pool.
“It’s obvious Henry’s teachers failed him miserably.”
So why are we freaking that they finally have to pay for their pension if they failed me so badly?
@ Richard
Speaking as a middle school teacher, your comment made my day. Thank you. I always enjoy reading your coherent, on-target comments. I wrote this while taking a break from the SOL review I have been working on for hours!
I feel so badly for the teachers.
Hey, did you see Roanoke City Schools have just started up lacrosse programs? Complete with brand-spanking new equipment and uniforms. Both boys and girls teams. Amazing they could come up with money to do this while screwing their teachers so royally.
“So why are we freaking…”
If you hadn’t slept through civics class you’d know.
Roanoke City JUST started up one lacrosse program with a fair amount of the money coming from a private group that encourages new lacrosse programs at schools with large minority populations.
Roanoke County, OTOH, JUST started up either two or three and they definitely were NOT at schools with large minority populations. You are so wrong once again, racist troll suzie.
Roanoke City JUST started up one lacrosse program with a fair amount of the money coming from a private group that encourages new lacrosse programs at schools with large minority populations.
Oh, I see. So you’re saying Roanoke City Public Schools won’t have to pay a cent to transport these players to matches, won’t be paying the coaches, won’t be providing the facilities, and will bear no finanical cost? Gee, then why are these teams named Fleming and PH? LOL.
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Roanoke County, OTOH, JUST started up either two or three and they definitely were NOT at schools with large minority populations.
RoCo didn’t cry poverty while they soaked their restaurants with a meals tax, skippy.
———
You are so wrong once again, racist troll suzie.
Wow. So anybody who even mentions RCPS is now racist because they have a lot of minorities? Gdad is everything that’s absurd about the PC left. He trivializes true racism by making EVERYTHING racist.
Suzie is absolutely right. The local public school systems should immediately cut all athletic programs, cheerleading, band music, art and all extracurricular activities of any kind from their budgets. Then they should cut out all administrators in every building except for one principal. All that money should then be placed into the pool for increasing the salaries of classroom teachers.While they’re at it, they shuld close all the school cafeterias. Let the little darlings pack their lunch every day. And by all means eliminate the transp[ortation dept. Those big yellow buses are just an eyesore and tie up traffic anyway. Let all those poor lazy slobs haul their own kids to school. And maybe, just maybe about six months of that would get the attention of the voters and the stupid state legislature and get something done about funding for public education. Take the bucks, pay the teachers. Let everything else fall by the wayside. Oh. And get ready to call in the National Guard to stop the riots and protect the legislators from getting killed.
Suzie is absolutely right. The local public school systems should immediately cut all athletic programs, cheerleading, band music, art and all extracurricular activities of any kind from their budgets.
No, I’m just asking how RCPS can add two new sports programs per school after they’ve laid off teachers, closed, schools, and did the Chicken Little routine to bilk restaurants? It’s the libs in charge of schools who have screwed teachers by mismanaging resources; not the General Assembly.
So Dan,
What is the solution? Raising Real Estate Taxes? Sales Tax? I think the fairest way to do it would be a $100??? per child charge for students and the money goes to the teachers. That way the people that are using the system pay for it. I would gladly pay the fee because I think our elementary has the greatest teachers in the world.
#46 Gee, suzie, wrong YET again. That was not a comment about this thread specifically. I have randomly called you racist troll for months now no matter what the situation. Funny you just now protested that.
Roanoke County didn’t raise the meals tax but it has closed at least one school, has not been giving teacher raises, and has complained about the retirement fund burden. Why would it start lacrosse programS this year and why wouldn’t you criticize them for that, toots? Salem DID raise the meals tax and it has lacrosse programs, including at middle school levels. Time to attack them, troll girl.
William Fleming already had facilities for lacrosse so that’s not a problem. No expense there.
Every single time you comment on sports you show your astounding ignorance.
#48 Two new programs per school, suzie? PH has had lacrosse for several years. Much of Fleming’s is being paid for with private funds.
Why do you keep lying?
Gdad,
Did you watch the Carolina Duke game? We were going but did not feel like sitting in a cold rain. Sorry UVa was not there but they will be in the tournament.
#48 I see, so now it’s “libs in charge of the schools” who stole money from the state retirement fund to balance the state budget and then didn’t pay it back? “Libs in charge of the schools” breaking promises made to teachers and all state employees? Really?
Liar.
MichaelH, parents can’t ad hoc pay teachers above and beyond what they’re contracted for. What do you have then…parents who decide to kick in $500 then decide the teacher has become their personal employee, or somehow owes their special snowflake more attention than the poorer kids? This is the complete antithesis of what public school is supposed to be.
For special extracurricular activities, I don’t see a problem with the kids/parents on the team/cast/band having to come up with some cash to help fund the activity. This could be accomplished through fundraising activities as well as check writing.
#52 Michael, we don’t get ESPNU at home and had not planned to travel because of other stuff going on so I didn’t see it. Maybe U.Va. can replicate last year’s run to the championship, but I can’t figure out why they have so much trouble with Duke.
BTW, saw the Salem-PH game at Salem Thursday. I think PH probably should have taken them before it came down to sudden death, but it was an exciting game. I don’t think PH has a prayer against Glass, though.
William Fleming already had facilities for lacrosse so that’s not a problem. No expense there.
Really? So maintaining the facilities is free?
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Much of Fleming’s is being paid for with private funds.
Notice how Gdad CANNOT say RCPS won’t be paying anything for lacrosse.
For special extracurricular activities, I don’t see a problem with the kids/parents on the team/cast/band having to come up with some cash to help fund the activity. This could be accomplished through fundraising activities as well as check writing.
Kristen is finally right about something. I’ve long thought kids could ride to away games with their parents instead of school buses taking them. Team unity can be fostered elsewhere.
48. Monkey Misinformation Troll – The General Assembly has been under funding schools (according to their own funding formula) for years. The localities have had to cover for their under funding through local taxes. If the general assembly wanted to stand up and cut athletic programs and other expenses in order to meet their funding formula for education, they should stand up and do so rather than weaseling a decrease in pay for the teachers at the State level. The fact of the matter is they want the localities to take the heat for their failure to fully fund education.
“The localities have had to cover for their under funding through local taxes.”
So localities are having to pay for education and that’s a bad thing? I thought paying for education was a good thing. I thought paying for education helped the community and made it better for people who live there.
Kristen,
I understand how the system works. I was just saying to Dan come up with a reasonable and fair plan to provide better compensation for teachers. You know how I feel about things; I believe the users of services should pay for them. I have three children in school and I have no problem paying any fee’s associated with their education. I’m a huge advocate of sports and my boys are involved in swimming and lacrosse and we pay a reasonable fee for them to participate. I agree teachers are underpaid I’m just not sure of a reasonable plan to fix the problem. Gdad, I heard that was a great game the boys had practice and we could not get there.
Gdad,
Friday night is going to be a great game. I will miss Friday night poker for that!
#56 A stadium with an artificial turf is maintained no matter what.
Salem instituted a meals tax. Time to attack them for having MULTIPLE lacrosse teams, toots.
Bye, bye liar.
#671 I hope PH can match up, Michael. Glass crushed Salem and PH barely beat Salem. A couple of Salem parents said Glass was just way too big, fast, and deep.
Dan,
Why do YOU feel restricted in paying only the taxes that are due to your loacality? Don’t you have the option to pay MORE? Why don’t you?
Can’t you pay more income taxes to the state also? I mean, if you truly believe what you write, why not put your money behind your words?
Because of execssive government growth in both employees and expenditures, which have far exceeded inflation, I have had to work 2 jobs since 1987. I haven’t had a increase in 4 years. In fact, my take home pay has been cut because my salary remained the same but the health insurance costs keep going up (thank you Obamacare). All because of the spend and then tax more ideology of liberlaism. And now you want more?
Let’s tax newspapers and earmark it to education. How about it Dano?
I don’t know where Henry found his VDOE numbers, or what fantasy land he lives in, but I’ve taught in Virginia public schools for 34 years, and make ca.$15,000 less than his “average”. Comments like his make all that work seem very unappreciated. Try it sometime, Henry. You’re one of those bellicose know-it-alls who wouldn’t last a week in my job.
If teachers have all of this extra work to do outside of their 180 day, 6 hour in the classroom schedule that makes them so overworked and unappreciated, why not change to a 52 week 40 hour schedule where they can do the lesson plans and paper grading at their work place, the school? Then their work load could be supervised, monitored, measured and evalutated to determine if their work load and pay is appropriate. Think the teachers would sign up for this?
Everyone in this nation is “users of services” when it comes to education. We are a better, stronger, and safer nation when people can read and write alone and add to that the vast foundation for knowledge, thirst for learning, respect for intelligence and yearning for all that can be accomplished that so many come out of public schools with and it is a bargain that we should all want to pay for. The idea that you can have a great society without paying for it is ludicrous. The idea that we are not all strengthened by education and supporting education is just strange. That every outcome is not great is no reason to discount the majority that are. Doctors save lives but teachers touch lives every day in the classroom and to not respect that with a good wage/benefits package is an insult. Does the governor, Lt Governor, AG, or members of the Virginia Legislature also pay 5% of their retirement? Why not, we cannot afford to subsidize them either?
MichaelH, every single citizen in the country benefits from a thriving school system. From a mercenary perspective, because property values diminish when school systems fail. From a self-defense perspective – we need people with some baseline of education to fight our wars. Pretty soon I’ll have no kids in public school here, but I’m still a consumer of education and I’ll continue to pay for it…and that’s ok.
FY 2009 Actual Average Teacher Salary $52,309
FY 2010 Actual Average Teacher Salary2 $51,894
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/workforce_data/salaries/2010-2011_salary_report.pdf
#66 Some teachers do indeed support year-round school, waynep. Others don’t.
And if you think teachers have a six-hour day at the school, you’re hallucinating.
There are very few jobs on the planet that should pay more than a teacher gets paid.
Can you be a doctor without the help of a teacher?
Can you be a lawyer without the help of a teacher?
Can you be an engineer without the help of a teacher?
Can you get a high school diploma or a college degree without teachers?
It’s hard to find a profession that serves more of the public than a teacher. It’s a shame that our society doesn’t pay them accordingly.
#64 Bob H, the human broken record.
Not sure how to break the news to you, Bob H, but health insurance went up tremendously during Bush, more than doubling from 2001 to 2010 (includes one year of Obama but before the health care act). Who are you blaming for that?
You should read your own link, Henry. Teachers in Arlington average $69,000 while teachers in Roanoke City average $36,078, an actual drop of 18% from FY 2009 to FY 2011. Sure, let’s hit them up for another 5% on top of that with no raise. Put a sock in it, you’ve become quite droll.
@25: Thank you. You said it better than I. Henry, you are clueless. You really don’t know what it takes to be a teacher — and I bet you couldn’t hack it regardless. Stop damning the teaching profession until you really know what you are talking about.
I’m just giving you the facts. It’s not my fault that you don’t like to hear them. I didn’t write that PDF. I’m just telling you what it says. Like this:
Roanoke County Public Schools $49,221
Gdad,
Not sure how to explain it to you any plainer, I got salary increases when Bush was president that offset the cost of the insurance going up. Gasoline was half what it is now when Bush left office. Then Obama’s massive deficts devalue the dollar’s purchasing power even more and become a hidden tax that isn’t even legislated.
Then to read drivel such as was written in this column that even more taxes should be paid to support the further bloating of the millstone around our necks that the government is, is lunacy. EVERYBODY is having to do more with less these days. Why are teachers exempt from that?
#69 Thank you for providing the proof of the point some of us were making, Henry. Very kind of you.
Fair enough Kristen. What is the beat way to provide additional compensation to teachers? I don’t know anyone, conservative or liberal that is opposed to increasing teacher pay. How do we do that???
Does it please you, Henry, that the average teacher salary declined from 09-10 to 10-11?
BobH got his public school education. Everyone else is on their own!
Michael Howdyshell,
Read this thread. Bob H is against paying teachers more.
#76 Bob H. posted, “EVERYBODY is having to do more with less these days.
Actually that is not true.
FACT. “…the Bush tax cuts supported by [Republicans] will provide $231 billion in benefits to the richest fifth of taxpayers in 2012 and just $3 billion to the poorest fifth of taxpayers during that same year”
http://www.ctj.org/taxjusticedigest/archive/federal_tax_issues/bush_tax_cuts_1/
MichaelHowdyshell, first of all elect a legislative body that’s committed to education. Not one looking to “starve the beast”. All of the so-called “voucher programs” have less to do with supporting private education than funnelling money away from public.
BobH, you need to either work harder or get a better job. Stop blaming others for your lack of earning power. Or perhaps support the Occupy folks because they are there for the 99%.
If teachers have all of this extra work to do outside of their 180 day, 6 hour in the classroom schedule that makes them so overworked and unappreciated, why not change to a 52 week 40 hour schedule where they can do the lesson plans and paper grading at their work place, the school? Then their work load could be supervised, monitored, measured and evalutated to determine if their work load and pay is appropriate. Think the teachers would sign up for this?
Sure! I’d sign up for that and hope they’d increase my pay! What makes than any different than working three jobs??? I DO spend many Saturdays and Sundays and summer days in my classroom working. And, let me tell you, if you think I am in the classroom for only six hours a day, you’re having a pipe dream! As I said yesterday, I don’t want more than I was contracted to get. I just want what I was told I would get!!!
I just wonder why teacher work schedules are so different than most working folks. Teachers are in the classroom, actually teaching, less than 8 hours a day. They do not work the summer months, get every holiday with extended off days during Thanksgiving,Christmas and spring break. I know of no other professional or trade group that works that annual schedule. Can’t think of any other group that spends only about 75% of their time at work and then are allowed to take the rest of their work home. Can’t think of any other group that can say that they work Saturdays and Sundays and late at night, with no supervision and little accounting and then claim they are overworked and underpaid. Maybe they are. What I wonder is why don’t they just stay at school for a full 8 hours, do this other work like grading papers, and then when they are unable to get everything done it would become clear what their work load really is, if that really is the case.
All this talk about reneging on a promise made in 1983…What’d you expect when you enter into a deal with the government? When the snake tells you it won’t bite, then bites, you recoil in shock. The snake simply says “Why are you surprised? It’s in my nature”.
waynep, you are making it obvious that you know little to nothing about a teacher’s work day.
Thank you, Dan! I DO stay at school for at least eight hours a day, Waynep! Don’t make assumptions. It makes you seem stupid! The government couldn’t afford the electricity bill if we did all of our work at school. Again, I’m only telling you how it is! I can’t grade hundreds of papers, average grades, write notes to parents and call parents, plan field trips, contact the bus garage, file, attend PTA and IEP meetings, fill out cum folders, work on the annual, and make lesson plans and do it all in triplicate in a measly eight hours. I bet you could though.
This blog is a welcome break!
I saw a sign recently. It said this.
If teachers worked just eight hour days, your student would get
-no graded papers
-no letters of recommendation
-no tutoring
-no yearbook (not a choice-we must offer that)
-no dances
-no concerts
-no school plays
-no IEP
-no parent emails
-no online grades
-fewer coaches
and on and on and on
#76 Bob H, buddy, you said absolutely nothing in your first post about getting raises that offset health insurance increases, so of course I didn’t take that into account. How could I have? And you didn’t mention gas. But I’m sure you remember that the highest gas has EVER been happened during Bush, right?
But I’m glad to hear your salary almost doubled during that time. If it went up that much, why the heck are you still having to work two jobs? And note that your need to work two jobs continued during Republican administrations AND Repub Congresses. Yet you seem to blame Obama for everything. Why would that be?
The only thing that counts to waynep is instructional time in the classroom.
I bet waynep believes I should be writing 40 hours a week and that my pay should be docked for every hour I’m not.
BobH, private sector employment dropped by 2.5 million jobs during Bush’s first three years in office. It has risen by more than that in Obama’s first three years. Would you care to try to explain to the rest of us how this could be?
Unemployment under Bush and the Republicans was 4%
Unemployment under Obama and the Democrats reached 10%
As a school volunteer for over 10 years, I can assure you teachers work more than 8 hours a day and are responsible for continuing education as needed on their “summer breaks”, having their lesson plans, class schedules, bulletin boards, supplies and resources lined up and ready to go on day one of class. During the school term, they have to keep all of that up and do “lunch duty”, “bus duty”, PTA meetings, serve on committees, meet benchmarks etc. There is no turn off the lights and worry about that tomorrow like most workers in this nation enjoy at “quitting time”. You are embarrassing only your anonymous entities to bash teachers and a profession you know nothing about.
#56 A stadium with an artificial turf is maintained no matter what.
Schools don’t maintain athletic fields anyway, dimbulb. Boosters do. But schools do have to pay for janitors, electricity, etc. But you’re saying it’s ALL privately funded? Let’s hear it, ace.
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Salem instituted a meals tax. Time to attack them for having MULTIPLE lacrosse teams, toots.
And Salem’s taxes STILL aren’t as high as Roanoke City’s. And they’re building a new school to boot. RCPS is closing schools.
Unemployment under Bush and the Republicans was 4%
Unemployment under Obama and the Democrats reached 10%
Libs just can’t stand that stat. I believe 0bama is the ONLY president whose administration LOST overall jobs. The total number has gone down since he took office. Romney will absolutely bury him that that statistic. I can’t wait.
Yes, Henry – we teachers are off summers and for winter break, but what you obviously do not know is that we are not paid for that time off with the exception of a couple of the days around Christmas.