Thursday’s column: Roanoke’s meals tax should be extended
Daniel Case | Wikimedia Commons | Altered by Dan
Two years ago this month, the city’s leaders gazed into a crystal ball and decided it was advisable for Roanoke to raise its meals tax from 5 cents to 7 cents per dollar.
They also devoted the new revenue to public schools. At the same time, they deemed that the 2-cent surtax would expire this upcoming June 30.
Critics reacted with shrill and dire predictions: Patrons would shift their food-and-beverage spending to outside the city, rather than pay the extra 2 cents per dollar, some cried.
Restaurateurs would move their operations to Roanoke County or Salem to escape the onerous new levy, others said.
A few slammed the tax hike as a “40 percent increase,” which was literally true, but highly deceptive (because of a statistical quirk known as the tyranny of small numbers). Out of patrons’ pockets, it was 2 percent more.
The silliest used anti-tax dogma to forecast an overall decline in meals tax revenues because of the increase.
None of that happened. What did?
To see the surprising results, READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
April 26, 2012 - 6:00 AM
You know Dan is getting way out there when the kooks at the RTEB disagree with him. They think the City Council should keep their promises. Imagine that.
Probably the dumbest conclusion Dan makes is to pretend the meals tax didn’t hurt restaurant spending. He has no way of knowing what it would have been without the tax, but implies somehow, magically, that the tax may have increased spending.
Isn’t Roanoke County the same? When I run up to the McDonald’s near me, for instance, and grab something from the dollar menu, it comes out to $1.07. 7%
By the way, your article link goes to a list of your articles, not directly to the article in question.
Get your popcorn out… The meals tax should expire, as promised. Bring it back to the table again and vote. Can the public vote on such an issue? Another option is to share it over industries, 2% tax increase on newly purchased cars, 2% tax increase on purchases at home good stores, 2% tax increase on parking in Roanoke etc., 2% tax increase on newspapers and magazines, etc. Can’t believe Bushnell centered his campaign around Rosen’s idea. Lost my vote immediately.
Let me try to beat Bob H to it — WE SHOULD PUT A 75 CENT TAX ON NEWSPAPERS!!!
OK, not that that’s out of the way, you’re exactly right, Dan. This is a promise that should be broken. But it appears that once again Roanoke City Council is going to do the dumb thing. I wonder where they think this money’s coming from.
I remember back when good old Jack McGuire (as well as Bob H and others) were predicting that restaurants would be shutting down left and right because this tax would bankrupt them. In fact, nobody can point to a single place that closed simply because of the tax.
I agree it should be extended, but I think they have to offer public comment before the vote to do so and if enough people are against it, they will need to explain their vote and take the lumps.
BTW, for those who labor under the delusion that the RTEB and the news department are one and the same or that somebody from above dictates what both say, note that the RTEB has come out in favor of the meals tax expiring.
Roanoke County’s meals tax is 4 percent
#2 suzie, applying your logic to the national economy, we can safely say that had Congress and the president not approved stimulus money and bailed out the car companies, our recession would have been much worse. Thank you for confirming that.
Actually, we realize that you’re trying to cover your embarrassment over incorrectly predicting that the tax and your boycott would lead to lower and restaurants failing.
The link to the “rest of column” takes me to ALL your past columns… not the conclusion of his one.
The tax should definitely be extended. Those who oppose it don’t have to pay it and those who support it can do so with little effect to their pocketbook. What a perfect set up.
Dan, you make me feel weird for being proud to have some elected officials who keep their word . The schools have twelve million dollars. They are in good position.
First time in a long while we have city council persons who are honorable and committed to their words.
Lynda K,
The published column is the top link on the column archive page.
(I used to merely run the whole column on the blog, as well; then roanoke.com asked me to stop doing this. Because almost ALL the blog posts are written in advance, the link to the published column doesn’t exist when I format and advance sked these column-posts — later on I try to go back and change the link).
I think it should be extended but I have no problem with them discussing it first. Any of the doomsday scenarios that were put forth when it was originally instated have proven to be completely wrong…it’s been a big success. It should have no problem passing again.
@Dan Casey: “Roanoke County’s meals tax is 4 percent.”
Then why is a $1 item in Roanoke County $1.07 after taxes?
Anyone who does not believe the meals tax does have an impact should work at a hotel or facility that relies on larger conventions. Two-percent on a large wedding party, convention etc can be ALOT of money. Hotel Roanoke, Sheraten, holiday INn. It affects us but two years for schools we dealt with.
Thanks for keeping your promise Roanoke Council!
“Those who oppose it don’t have to pay it and those who support it can do so with little effect to their pocketbook. What a perfect set up.”
Way to completely punish the restaurants. Spread it around to other industries. It’s not that cut and dry.
Jack, in addition to the 4 percent meals tax there’s 5 percent state sales tax. Those should be delineated on your receipt.
I dunno why a $1 item would total out at $1.07, tho
“Way to completely punish the restaurants”
How is it punishing restaurants? Because of the extra accounting abd paperwork they have to do to settle the tax payment?
I have had to stand in line several times for a table in the City recently so, no, I do not think this tax is hurting anyone. Conventions might be hurting for another reason…like the economy…which is why the meals tax was needed in the first place. It is all a circle but it is not all cause and effect.
LyndaK,
The 2-cent surtax on the 5-percent meals tax no punishes restaurants; formerly they had to remit 5 percent of their gross to the city; now they have to remit 7 percent. All of that is paid for by patrons. There’s no extra accounting or paperwork. Managers merely have to figure the tax due based on a higher percentage.
I have heard anecdotal reports from waiters and waitresses that it has hurt tipping.
The fact is, the number of restaurants has grown since the tax was instituted. Total spending on prepared food and beverages has climbed.
I’m not saying the tax increase is responsible for those increases. I’m just saying there is no evidence whatsoever that it has hurt the industry overall.
It punishes restaurants because of the lost business they would have gotten had the tax not gone into effect.
Duh.
It is very obvious no professionals was consulted before the column was written. Alot of the restaurants downtown, like Corn Beef, have even dollar amounts on menu with tax figured in. So when the tax was raised they either raised prices to $8.16, to make up an example, or kept it at $8, which is what CB did. They ate the 16 cents ’cause it cost more to redo all their menus and add the administration. So Dan, you are not right.
Look at the taxes and surcharges on a cell phone bill, it sure doesn’t stop people from having one. Look at the taxes and surcharges on renting something. Look at the piled on court costs and fees in the legal system. Look at the taxes, environmental fee and tank fee on fuel oil. There are plenty of taxes spread on many industries and few ever complain…and those are services people actually need. No one who cannot afford it, needs to eat out and “take out” will allow you to avoid the tip if you are that strapped FGS. This is like the lottery IMO, a totally voluntary tax.
No business would weep over losing your presence Suzie.
Trying again…
Look at the taxes and surcharges on a cell phone bill, it sure doesn’t stop people from having one. Look at the taxes and surcharges on renting something. Look at the piled on court costs and fees in the legal system. Look at the taxes, environmental fee and tank fee on fuel oil. There are plenty of taxes spread on many industries and few ever complain…and those are services people actually need. No one who cannot afford it, needs to eat out and “take out” will allow you to avoid the tip if you are that strapped FGS. This is like the lottery IMO, a totally voluntary tax.
Sorry for the double post!
“This is like the lottery IMO, a totally voluntary tax.”
Voluntary sure, but restaurants suffer unfairly. I don’t like this tax and yes I want it to expire. But I’m not going to punish my favorite establishments because I don’t like the tax and not frequent them ultimately HURTING THEM. Spread it around to other industries. Let it revolve to media sales, car sales, bus tax, taxi tax, have a greenway tax, then back to the restaurants. Share the wealth.
Try getting a table on Friday or Saturday night after 7 and tell me how the restaurant industry in Roanoke city is hurting. Restaurants are full here, all the time. Trying to make a point to the contrary is silly.
Salem was evidently impressed because they instituted something similar.
@29 – Doesn’t justify taxing an industry.
Cut the meals tax….keeping it or increasing it is nonsensical….with ALL the money that’s gone into the Roanoke City school system the high school graduation rate still hovers at 50%. It ain’t the $$ that count…the dollars are being wasted….OTHER problems aren’t being addressed…Oh..the art museum was ALSO a waste of taxpayer funds…
Keep the 2% meals tax.
We need to fund our schools and our city if it is to continue to move forward; and most of us prefer a “luxury” tax on an optional behavior like eating out to an increase in (for example) our property taxes
I hope that our political leaders are brave enough to ignore the naysayers, who I believe will oppose any tax, and keep the meals tax.
@32- Spread the tax around to other industries. Share the wealth.
UTR,
I am sure you are being facetious, because you must know that Roanoke City Council has no power to “spread it around” to other industries. In Virginia, local governing bodies may tax only what the Virginia General Assembly allows them to tax; restaurants and utilities are among the very few local taxes those state laws allow.
So your beef is with the legislature, not the council.
#31 The graduation rate is well above that now, Dave. You might want to keep up with the facts if you want to make an effective argument.
Raise it to 5 cents.
I believe the art museum was an overly ambitious project for the Roanoke Valley and that the millions spent on it could have been better spent on enhancing the other cultural oportunities available in the valley. But it wasn’t a waste of “taxpayer” monmey because it wasn’t built with tax revenue. Dave should know his facts before he throws his wet blanket.
Note that UTR has absolutely no reply when confronted with the fact that he was completely unaware that city council CAN’T legally spread the tax burden around.
#2 suzie, applying your logic to the national economy, we can safely say that had Congress and the president not approved stimulus money and bailed out the car companies, our recession would have been much worse. Thank you for confirming that.
Huh? That makes absolutely no sense, Gdad. But we’ve come to expect that from you.
Frankly, the 2% meals tax has proven a failure, because they city and schools haven’t proven they can live up to their end and stop waste.
Now we have city-wide middle school football, brand new boys and girls lacrosse teams in both city schools,expensive ‘stepping’ programs, $1000 bonuses for city employees, and thousands of dollars spent to see if dilapidated old hovels can qualify for hisotrical designation, And this is the tip of the spending iceberg.
Liberals can’t and won’t control themselves with found money. They go right on wasting it which caused the problem in the first place. WHY anybody thinks they would suddenly turn responsible with new cash is a mystery.
.
Sorry gdad, I don’t sit around with bated breath waiting for replies, I get here when I can. And I apologize for my yankee ignorance on Virginia law. But thank you Dan for clarifying. To continue though, give it to the utilities for 2 years then. Pick the poison. I go with water for 2 then gas for 2 then back to the restaurants. Spread it around. Is that allowable? And in the meantime have council work on getting that legislation changed to spread it around a little better. It’s only 2%.
Well of course the TP/GOP has a real and proven record with spending now don’t they Suzie? You pitiful folks just want to pull the safety nets, the same answer you have had for over 50 years and that is your answer for every budget, every ill wind and every election. You spend, like Reagan and Bush did, even paying for TWO WARS and STILL give tax breaks and act like the money will just materialize to pay for them and then you demonize the Dems for caring about the “detritus” of your greed. Dear God you people are even worse than despicable. You want us to believe the nation is on fire (because of Obama naturally), take not one iota of blame for anything and then send in Willard Romney as the “fireman”? Talk about tone deafness!
#40 “brand new boys and girls lacrosse teams in both city schools,”
Lie. No sense in even going after the others given that it can’t even tell the truth about something as simple as the lacrosse one.
UTY, there’s already a utility tax of something like 11 percent — on all of them. It might be (not sure) already at the max allowed by state law. If it is at the max, there would have to be enabling state legislation allowing an increase.
The reason Roanoke was able to unilaterally raise the restaurant tax by 2 percentage points was because the city rate was well UNDER the state max.
Well of course the TP/GOP has a real and proven record with spending now don’t they Suzie? You pitiful folks just want to pull the safety nets, the same answer you have had for over 50 years and that is your answer for every budget, every ill wind and every election. You spend, like Reagan and Bush did, even paying for TWO WARS and STILL give tax breaks and act like the money will just materialize to pay for them and then you demonize the Dems for caring about the “detritus” of your greed. Dear God you people are even worse than despicable. You want us to believe the nation is on fire (because of Obama naturally), take not one iota of blame for anything and then send in Willard Romney as the “fireman”? Talk about tone deafness!
I’m sorry. Isn’t it Monkey Boy who added $5 trillion to the deficit in three years, more than Bush did in 8? How come you are silent on this, dear?
Lie. No sense in even going after the others given that it can’t even tell the truth about something as simple as the lacrosse one.
Apparently, Gdad thinks a club team is the same as a school team.
I am “silent on this” because unlike the Bush deficits and debt, Obama’s was in reaction to a world wide economic crisis not stupidity, temerity, and greed. That you refuse to see the difference only strengthens my claim that you people are insane and dangerous and that you are sending a fool just like you to the “rescue”.
Mr. Casey. Could you please stop allowing Suzie to post on your blog. She use racist terms towards the president. “Monkey boy” that is dispicable.
#46 I know the difference and PH’s teams haven’t been club teams for a while now.
Boy do you look stupid.
uptheriver
Getting this Republican Generl Assembly to change anything that would allow a locality to add on a new or higher tax on anything not already authorized is like going fishing in a hurricane. As a matter of fact, they have been taking away and limiting local options instead of expanding them. And they do this at the same time they add more mandates
for the localities to pay for.