Checking in with the loons of World Net Daily (and happy birthday!)
Joe Farah of WND.com
World Net Daily, the Weekly World News of the far-right fringe, is celebrating its 15th anniversary this year. And I feel I owe them a minor debt of gratitude since founder Joe Farah back in 2009 promoted yours truly in one of his well-written though demented columns.
So happy birthday to WND and Joe (who in an earlier career ran two “metropolitan” newspapers into the ground back when metro newspapers were rolling in dough). May you have many remaining years of health and prosperity so you can keep the rest of us sane folks laughing at your foibles.
What is WND up to these days? In a word, birtherism, birtherism, birtherism, which they euphemistically refer to as “the Obama eligibility question.” They’ve been faithful birthers since the very beginning of the movement, which is no big surprise. After all, in the 1990s Joe Farah was the most vicious pusher of the nutty conspiracy theory that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster with her bare hands, or something crazy like that. He made money peddling it.
But lately WND has been truly mainlining birtherism, in the same way a former weekend heroin sniffer picks up a needle and sticks it in a fat vein. Like that junkie, WND simply can’t get enough birther news. Which explains the newsgasm they had just Tuesday, writing that Maricopa County (Arizona) Sheriff Joe Arpaio had dispatched two investigators to Hawaii to conduct their own search for President Obama’s birth certificate.
World Net Daily isn’t simply writing about this curiosity from afar. No, no, no. They sent a man along with the Arizona investigators. From WND.com:
[Retired New Jersey detective Mike] Zullo’s investigation is a volunteer effort, but the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office has sent him to Hawaii with an MCSO deputy detective for safety reasons and to act as a liaison between MCSO and local law enforcement.
WND reporter Jerome Corsi is embedded with the investigators in Hawaii with the provision that reporting during the trip be curtailed to protect the investigation.
Arpaio told WND Friday that the Hawaii Department of Health’s refusal to confirm to Bennett that it has a valid Obama birth certificate on file makes it look like Hawaii officials “are hiding something.”
[Arizona Secretary of State Ken] Bennett has said that he might keep Obama’s name off of the state’s presidential ballot if he doesn’t receive the confirmation.
Two points here, beginning with this: Did you notice that word, “embedded?” It’s the term used for war correspondents who join a platoon in Afghanistan or some other godforsaken country where the U.S. is at war.
In the case of Jerome Corsi, who has written an entire crazy book about Obama’s supposed birther crimes, “embedded” is precisely the right term. Because for WND, this issue is war, and they are pursing a scorched-Earth policy that elevates the silliest paranoid suspicion into a major journalistic coup. They’re winning a Pulitzer Prize every day all in their own minds.
Point two: Ken Bennett was indeed saying that he might keep Obama’s name off the Arizona presidential ballot in November. Until yesterday, that is, when he totally threw in the towel because he got embarrassed that everybody in the whole country, except maybe Joe Farah and Orly Taitz, was laughing at him.
From Talking Points Memo:
After days of ridicule for launching a conspiracy theory-fueled investigation into Barack Obama’s birth certificate, Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett on Tuesday backed off his threat to keep the president off the ballot in November and apologized to his state.
“If I embarrassed the state, I apologize, but that certainly wasn’t my intent,” Bennett said in an interview with Phoenix radio station KTAR. “He’ll be on the ballot as long as he fills out the same paperwork and does the same things that everybody else has.”
Of course, there was no mention of this in the story on WND. Their story reached back months, weeks and days to pull old quotes from Bennett outlining his concerns, suspicions, and threats to keep the president off the ballot. Perhaps most recent statement was too dispiriting for those conspiracy-spreaders to contemplate.
Then again, maybe they simply missed the news. That’s par for the course at WND.
May 23, 2012 - 8:00 AM
At least they are being proper journalists by “embedding” their reporter and fully investigating the “story,” right? To each their own. Happy Birthday WND, 15 years is quite an accomplishment.
All of the “birthers’ will come out of the woodwork.
Dan,
Normally I am with you on the birther people being crazy nuts. In my opinion they are facing a psychological case of denial that a black man with a funny name is president.
However, Bennett didn’t back off simply out of embarassment but because Hawaii finally relented and provided proof to the Arizona “elections chief” of his birth.
So, this begs the question: would Bennett have stuck to his guns and continued to embarrass himself (and every resident of the state) if Hawaii hadn’t caved to their ludicrous demands, or would he have backed off?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-obama-birth-certificate-20120523,0,7289187.story
I honestly can’t believe this is still an issue. It goes to show who the bigger person is in this delusional fight that there are no national voices going nuts claiming Romney is a Mexican similar to Farah/Taitz has.
But really, someone should start this conspiracy just to be as stupidly annoying as the right wing has been the past 4 years about this citizenship issue. And then when they’re done, they should claim that Romney is a Secret Sikh Scientologist.
It appears to me the Left is a little contradictory on acceptance. “Loons”? I’m asked to accept homosexuality as normal. While I have absolutely no issue with individual homosexuals and actually have friends that are gay, I do have an issue with the movement. Homosexuality is not normal nor does it fit into the way I want my children raised, simply my opinion. If I express my opinion I’m called a homophobe, backwards redneck in other words to be acceptable to liberals I have to agree with their view of homosexuality. Why? I don’t agree with or condone divorce. That does not mean that I don’t have friends, good friends that are divorced. I simply don’t agree with divorce nor do I want my children raised to think divorce is normal which does not mean I have issues with the individuals I have issue with the act of divorce. If I say this I’m called narrow minded, un-accepting and backwards. Why? I don’t agree with tattoos. I think they are trashy, which does not mean I don’t have friends that have tattoos or want o limit their rights to get them. I simply don’t like them. The same with ear rings for men, and body piercings for men or women. I can say the same thing about men and women living together outside of marriage, abortion, and a number of other progressive ideas. I guess my question is why can’t liberals be as accepting of my views of the world as they expect me to be of theirs? While I don’t agree with a lot of liberal progressive views I accept other views that are different than mine. In my opinion liberals are supposed to be the ones that are accepting of other ideas, but in a lot of cases they are not. As an example just look at the way conservatives are treated on this blog!
Any bets if this finally quells the pretense that President Obama is a US citizen?….problem is, he is still an educated black man who gets under the skin of the closet racists…so, no, probably not.
“A Hawaii official announced late Tuesday [May 22, 2012] that the state gave Arizona’s top elections official the verification he wanted showing President Barack Obama was indeed born there in 1961.
The announcement came just hours after Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett backed away from his threats to keep Obama off the November ballot and apologized for embarrassing his own state with a conspiracy theory-fueled investigation into whether the president was really a natural born U.S. citizen.”
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/hawaii-verifies-obamas-birth-for-arizona-secretary-of
correction to my previous post: The pretense that he isn’t a US citizen.. [sorry, late night last night...should go back to bed]
I realize that “everybody needs somewhere to belong” but the evil that these folks feed is truly frightening and will only harm this nation in the end. Why people cannot see that who they come for today matters because eventually they will come for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
That people think this is about liberty, personal freedom, “the rest of the story” and whatever else they can propagandize it into should be a wake up call, yet it is not.
What they have begot will be the death of this nation IMO. I do not wish them a happy birthday, I wish they would die of their own creation and leave us alone. But that is never how these folks work, never. We will pay the “McCarthy tax” over and over until the Plutocracy reigns.
Everyone should read this: “There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey “unconstitutional” orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.”
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers
If you are not afraid of what these people are capable of, think of a world with a majority of Suzies who are armed and believe you are the problem. If you are not afraid, you are not paying attention.
Scott,
Bennett backed off early in the day Tuesday. Late Tuesday night, Hawaii officials came through with the verification he had been asking for. So he backed off before he knew he would get what he wanted.
Wow, what tinfoil stuff will WND come up with now?
#4 Michael A. Howdyshell – I think you have progressives mixed up with RWers. I have not seen one progressive on this blog demand everyone think the same. As a matter of fact, unlike RWers, progressives won’t cut off your mike, hang up the phone, or block your posts based on what you believe. I commend you for your position on child-rearing, I sympathize with your opinion on tatoos, I agree with you on your thoughts of divorce – and, you might reluctantly agree, I think what someone does in the privacy of their home as consenting adults, is none of my business, nor anyone else. I hold a strong belief that someone should not be judged on how they look [tatoos] or their particular sexual identity – but instead,[paraphrasing the great MLK], on the content of their character.
I have read the strong disagreements on many issues, but opinions are just that, and I think most would accept your opinion as simply your point of view. If you are not a gay/lesbian person, no one tries to persuade you to become one, or champions divorce, nor forces you into a “tatoo” parlor. But a particular perspective or fact on an issue may make some rethink a prejudice or viewpoint. I agree with some of what you posted, and not necessarily other parts, but it is your right to hold those views, and often it takes courage to voice them.
gdad and others,
Make sure you click on that link regarding Hillary Clinton and the Vince Foster “murder.” It’s one of the meanest and funniest things I’ve ever seen written about anyone.
Michael Howdyshell,
You know that I respect you. The following is not meant to shame you, but to make you think. Because in a different era, almost the exact same sentiments you have expressed with regard to gay rights was made about interracial marriage. To wit:
“It appears to me the Left is a little contradictory on acceptance. “Loons”? I’m asked to accept interracial marriage as normal. While I have absolutely no issue with individual black people and actually have friends that are black, I do have an issue with the interracial marriage movement. Interracial marriage is not normal nor does it fit into the way I want my children raised, simply my opinion. If I express my opinion I’m called a racist, backwards redneck in other words to be acceptable to liberals I have to agree with their view of interracial marriage. . . .I guess my question is why can’t liberals be as accepting of my views of the world as they expect me to be of theirs? While I don’t agree with a lot of liberal progressive views I accept other views that are different than mine. In my opinion liberals are supposed to be the ones that are accepting of other ideas, but in a lot of cases they are not. As an example just look at the way conservatives are treated on this blog!”
Michael, there are many people years ago who made your argument, except back then it was about race and marriage. They made the same arguments about racial integration and school desegregation. It was a wrong argument then, and it’s a wrong argument now. Back then, allowing the freedom for people of different races to marry didn’t impinge one bit on the rights of others who believed interracial marriage was wrong. No doubt, some still do believe it’s wrong. They can still believe it, even if the law doesn’t reflect those beliefs.
You will be free to believe whatever you want to believe (and others will be free to disagree) whether or this country allows gay marriage. And I’ll defend your right to hold your beliefs even if if and when I disagree with them.
MichaelH, no one is trying to dictate what you tell your children about your own family values. But if you decide to teach them that gays are evil and freaks, don’t expect to see those views endorsed by society at large. No one has to “agree” with homosexuality in order for homosexual citizens to enjoy the same range of rights everyone else has.
There is a big difference between having a personal opinion of something, and expecting to see that opinion codified into law and forced on everyone else.
#11 Magnificent destruction of that nutcase. Well, maybe not so nutty, since he’s ridden his niche to what I assume is a fair amount of cash and attention. Anyway, I love this. It should be psoted every time suzie and her ilk post something about Obama not deserving to get into (fill in the blank).
“Of course, none of these people were particularly concerned about George W. Bush’s college grades, but that’s because his case was completely different. For one thing, hardly anyone in America could keep a straight face if you told them he got straight As. For another, nobody had to game the system with politics to get him to the Ivy League. When an academic mediocrity gets into Yale because he’s the scion of a multi-millionaire Connecticut family, that’s called a legacy. It’s family values. But when a godd—ed negro gets into Columbia, then someone’s hand must have been hovering over a transcript with a Wite-Out bottle, because that’s called Affirmative Action. And that’s reverse-racism.”
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/oath-keepers-group-battered-by-members-
Sandi @7 – good post with link also added a link@14
I am always quite skeptical when I read of groups using words like –‘protecting our freedom”; “patriots”; “upholding the Constitution”; “tyranny” – concluding they are often the Tim McVeigh anti-government types viewing our government as the “enemy”. These extremists, whose delusion of a government ready to take away their rights [usually 1st and 2nd Amendment rights], often arise from an obscure event which they then distort into a grand government conspiracy. Like the ‘Oath Keepers’ who have contended that it is about nothing more than “protecting Americans’ freedoms” or Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers leader who says he merely “wants to defend the Constitution” the goal will usually involve weapons and violence. There is no place in our society for these paranoid hate-groups, and fortunately they do not fly under the radar of Homeland Security, the Justice Department nor the Southern Poverty Law Center.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/oath-keepers-group-battered-by-members-
#12
Dan presents a common false comparison regarding race and behavior.
“Homosexuality is like race. Homosexuals are a class of people
like African-Americans.
Is there a difference between skin color and sexual behavior?
Why should we classify people because of what they desire to do
sexually?
Homosexuals want to be considered a class of people by depicting themselves as victims who, like blacks, have been denied civil
rights. That way, they can make the unsuspecting public think that those
who oppose their political agenda are discriminating against them rather
than their behavior.
According to them, conservatives are all bigots on
par with racists—we are opposed to fairness itself.
But all of that is nonsense.
First, the comparison of homosexuality to race is completely invalid. Skin color is benign, but sexual behavior is not. Having a certain skin color does not hurt anyone, but homosexual behavior can and does hurt others. Furthermore, sexual behavior is always a choice; race never is.
You will find many former homosexuals, but you will never find a former African-American.
Second, homosexuality is not an identity or class; it’s a behavior.
Homosexuals are not a class of people any more than heterosexuals
are a class of people. We are males and females, not gays and straights.
In other words, we are males and females by anatomy, but gays and
straights by behavior.
Why not classify people by their desires as homosexual activists
demand? Because if we start to classify people by what they desire to
do sexually, then why not give people with all sexual desires special
marriage rights? On what grounds should we say that same-sex marriage
is fine but not marriage involving polygamy, incest, or bestiality?
“But those behaviors are harmful!” you say.
Exactly, and so is homosexual behavior. So why is it legitimate
to carve out a special case for homosexuality but not for those other
behaviors?
Skin color and sexual desires do have one thing in common—they
are both non-issues when it comes to law. Why should the law care
about your skin color or desires of any kind? Laws should be concerned
only with behavior.
People can desire to marry whoever or whatever they want, but the
behavior of actually marrying a person is what the law is concerned with.
As we’ve seen in the six-point case, the state has a compelling interest
to keep laws that promote natural marriage and provide no option for
government-backed same-sex marriage.” Turek
Michael H, I think it suits your purposes to believe that what you think of liberals is the reality but the contradiction here is you.
Not every liberal accepts homosexuality as “normal”, they are a minority, but we accept their right to equal rights, treatment and inclusion. That is ALL you have to “raise your kids” knowing. That we all have equal rights, not that we all have to agree with what anyone does.
Do you seriously want your children raised that it is okay to discriminate if you don’t like someone’s lifestyle, tattoos or piercings? Is that what you meant to say?
Straight people have and raise homosexuals, not the other way around.
If you express your personal belief that all of that is “wrong” you may raise eyebrows, but that is not what makes you or anyone a “homophobe”. Do you think calling me a “socialist”, “marxist”, “communist”, “bastard”, or “Oprah watcher” is meant as a compliment? I am none of those. We all get “called names”. Few of them are fair. But that too is freedom of speech. If you want to speak out, you have to take the results of it.
You raise your own children and if you have enough sense to always talk to them and actually communicate, you will not have to worry about explaining “normal”, you will be living it.
You do not have to agree with homosexuals, you just cannot call them names, discriminate against them or insist that they behave as you demand. You do not have to like tattoos, piercings, living in sin, abortions or divorce, just don’t do any of it, no need to call people “trashy” who do.
None of those things are “progressive ideas”. They were all born out of the American ideal of personal freedom, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, free will and the ability to do so. That progressives choose to live and let live is not an offense to your control over your life nor anyone else.
We can be accepting of your views of the world, as soon as you stop calling ours “trashy”. A soon as you stop calling everything you dislike a “progressive idea”. Do you not see the problem with that? I have never asked you to respect my ideas. I have only asked you not to call me names while explaining your own. And you still cannot do it. And you really try, I know you do. This is just plain sad.
Accepting “other views that are different than mine” is not calling them names, pejorative labels and hurtful insinuations. You see that so clearly for your own ideals. You don’t like it when people call you or your POV names. Liberals are tolerant and we accept a lot, maybe even too much, but no, we do not accept intolerance wrapped in insults and we likely never shall.
The conservatives on this blog are treated exactly as they treat others. You cannot see that because you agree with the trash they fling.
gdad was being kind with that passage he snatched from the astoundingly funny and completely vicious takedown of Joe Farah. Everybody ought to click on that link and read that piece. It’s worth 99 hoots and haws.
Damn, it got my envy motor running.
To add to Sandi’s note, above, I’d borrow a line from the gay rights movement:
“If straight people want homosexuality to disappear, they ought to stop having gay kids.”
Michael H – My question is not snark – how does the marriage of someone else, impact yours? Whether gay or straight or inter-racial, or inter-faith – how would anyone marrying someone they loved, diminish your marriage? Do those you know who are divorced, compel you to get divorced? Do they weaken your marriage vows?
I just do not understand those who claim that a gay marriage threatens family values and “traditional” marriage. Please explain. Thanks
Different issue Dan! Kristen I never said Gay people were evil or freaks I simply said it’s not normal. Hillary, I, like you don’t care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes I simply don’t think it should be sanctioned by the State. What if a guy wants to have two wives, if he could talk them into it what’s wrong with that? A guy can live with two girls just not be married.
My main point was I don’t believe Liberals, as a group, are accepting of conservative values and ideas.
“Having a certain skin color does not hurt anyone, but homosexual behavior can and does hurt others.”
Sooooo LC…explain to me how you’ve been “hurt” by a couple of people acting…homosexual. Because I know a few homosexuals and I can honestly say that whatever they choose to do when they leave my house after dinner or whatever hasn’t hurt me in the least. Of course, I don’t dedicate the time you do to thinking about it.
And your entire tortured construct differentiating between skin, sexual preference, and indentity v. behavior is a fail. It simply doesn’t matter.
MichaelH, to your comment about “santioning by the state” I’ll simply repeat my statement that no one gets to have their personal hangups and bigotries endorsed through force of law. Not conservatives, not liberals. Not you or your kids.
There are plenty of behaviors I consider to be “abnormal”, many of them modeled on this blog. I don’t expect to see them outlawed any time soon.
Sandi, if I have ever called you any names in the past I apolagize as I try to keep with the issues.
I think Liberals, as a group, are just as accepting of conservative values and ideas as Conservatives are of liberal values and ideas. You want to notice how conservatives are “treated” here, do you seriously not know how liberals are treated on conservative blogs? That is just so unfair of you IMO.
Nice cut-and-paste there, Lake, but it’s total BS.
22
Michael…as my post mentioned above…your opinion must be labeled as HATE (as Kristen did by putting words in your mouth) so that “they can make the unsuspecting public think that those who oppose their political agenda are discriminating against them rather than their behavior.”
So Michael H, what would be an example of “conservative values and ideas.”?
Progressives, I think, can have a meeting of the minds on many issues – although they are not often brought up, nor discussed. One example might be, we all want our country to be economically strong. The difference is in how we get there, don’t you think?
Well said Lake.
#19 You’re right, Dan, in that i didn’t copy any of the devastating passages about Farah. What a punk.
“Michael…as my post mentioned above…your opinion must be labeled as HATE (as Kristen did by putting words in your mouth) so that “they can make the unsuspecting public think that those who oppose their political agenda are discriminating against them rather than their behavior.”
If Michael Howdyshell is against gay marriage, I don’t see:
1) that those feelings are necessarily rooted in hate;
2) that his feelings have any effect on me.
I believe you’re engaging in something the psychologists call “projection,” LC.
“#19 You’re right, Dan, in that i didn’t copy any of the devastating passages about Farah. What a punk.”
You gotta love a publisher who responds to a respectful email from a reporter by calling the reporter “worm.” I think there’s a bit of unintentional honesty going on there.
I can think of nothing on earth that makes you capable of credibly making the assertions you have made Lake Claytor. Unlike Sharon N, you can’t even claim a black girlfriend to make your POV bona fide! That was all just pure conjecture and IMO, hogwash.
The only legitimate comparison between sexuality and race is that people are born into both, and both have given bigots a reason to discriminate against them.
Do yourself a favor and stop digging. Fair warning.
Dan, you keep laughing, that sick sack is feeding a dangerous underground in this nation that is more than ready, willing, and able to do some damage. They do not think he is funny, they think he is right.
My fav passage from the Farah article:
“That’s all fine, really, because Farah isn’t a serious journalist anyway. Sure, he might have looked like one at one point — he could have had the right kind of fedora and notepad, decades ago, when his mustache was culturally acceptable — but his connection to the practice of legitimate news now comes only from the empty signifier of resumé and nothing of actual practice. He can attempt to browbeat Elliott with lines like, “My guess is you were in diapers when I was running major metropolitan newspapers,” but even a cursory check of Wikipedia deflates the claim and produces an ugly farting noise.
He was the editor of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner and the Sacramento Union, two journalistic afterthoughts and also-rans of the late 1980s and early 1990s. He helmed the former after it already departed on its final calamitous voyage, converted into an afternoon newspaper long after they served little market purpose — as if the best way of taking on Airbus were by trying to corner the Zeppelin industry. But even the timing of his stewardship offers a sad commentary, like finding out he gained his Hindenburg acting-captaincy after the guy with the official hat and epaulettes noticed static electricity and zip-lined out of the doomed gas-wang on a mooring rope.
As for the latter newspaper, it was a rich-guy vanity project, an attempt to carve out a readership with a right-wing “alternative” rag with little understanding of their market. The Sacramento Bee is a quality newspaper, but it’s a sober and mostly centrist organ. Needing a conservative alternative to it is like needing to create a GOP version of Harry Reid. That only makes sense to people who are illiterate, and in any case, they won’t be buying your product. This last condition put them in good company with almost everyone else. Thus, while Justin Elliott lolled around some rec-room in diapers, it was Farah who was busy shit—g the bed a second time, running into the ground the second of two metropolitan newspapers that nobody with the faintest familiarity with journalism would describe as “major.”
#36 Extremely good, Dan. I’m definitely envious.
I guess he’ll be banned from the Republican party…
Gen. Colin Powell said Wednesday [May 23,2012] on CNN’s “The Situation Room” that he supports legal same-sex marriage, either at the state or federal level.
“I have no problem with it,” he said in the interview, which will air at 5 p.m. ET. “In terms of the legal matter of creating a contract between two people that’s called marriage, and allowing them to live together with the protection of law, it seems to me is the way we should be moving in this country. And so I support the president’s decision.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/23/powell-favors-same-sex-marriage/
23
“It simply doesn’t matter.”
34
“That was all just pure conjecture and IMO, hogwash.”
Sandi and Kristen, Excellent responses to my post…LOL.
32
Dan, not projection.
Kristen said this to/about Michael H.
“But if you decide to teach them that gays are EVIL and FREAKS”
Michael had said nothing of the sort. Kristen inserted this rhetoric into the dialogue to make Michael sound like a bigot. Michael simply said homosexual behavior isn’t normal, which it isn’t.
Yeah, well, Powell still needs to redeem himself for the obvious and cockamamie lies he believed, and resold to the UN, about WMDs in Iraq.
Lake Claytor, the responses were precisely as “excellent” as your post.
and i guess that you think the ROANOKE TIMES is a MAJOR newspaper? ha, ha, ha, ha
#43 Hmm, wonder where you got that, colorado max.
The RT is not a MAJOR newspaper because it’s not at the level of papers in places like NY, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, LA, Charlotte, Miami and so on. It is, however, a respectable mid-size daily.
The Sacramento Union was no major metro metro daily when Farah took it over, and the circulation was 72,000 daily. 15 months late, when he left, the circulation was down to 52,000, a decline of 28 percent BEFORE the internet.
0bama’s literary agent said he was born in Kenya, and his bio read that way for 16 years. Why didn’t 0bama fix it if it was an error?
Another excellent piece of journalistic work by Breitbart.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii
“My main point was I don’t believe Liberals, as a group, are accepting of conservative values and ideas.”
Though I don’t consider myself a liberal, I imagine you and others here would. At no point would any of my disdain for socially conservative values ever impede you from having them or acting upon them. The same cannot be said vice versa, for the disdain of socially liberal values has been consistently trampled in the courts of law by people it does not affect. See North Carolina Amendment 1, the Mormon-backed vote in California, this guy being denied judgeship, and the list goes on and on and on.
If you say the state should not sanction gay marriage, but have no opposition to gay people living together, then the issue must certainly be that of “marriage” being some sort of religious ceremony. And to that I would pose if you believe the state should not sanction gay marriage, then it should not sanction marriage period. (A stance I have zero problem with, being a firm believer in a secular government whose citizens have the freedom to belong to any religion.)
Dan, I don’t think General Powell intentionally lied to anyone. In hindsight I admit I was wrong and the 2nd Iraq was clearly an unnecessary use of United States resources. In addition it left a vacuum in the Middle East as too which countries can stand up to Iran. While the world, as a whole is probably a better place without Sadam Hussein I’m not sure it’s our responsibility to police the world. I also think the United States economy would have stood a far better chance of surviving the Real Estate recession had we not had the debt caused partially by the Iraq war. I also think Iraq led everyone to believe they had WMD’s in order to help keep Iran in check. I think they fooled numerous western intelligence agencies. So when General Powell briefed the UN I believe he was telling them the truth to the best of his knowledge. All in all a huge waste of money, on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we should use Special Forces to eliminate terrorist threats.
LC, I owe MichaelH an apology on that…I didnt mean to imply that HE woudl tell his kids that, he’s too polite for that. There are some people on here who I do believe would have no problem using those terms about homosexuals, but he’s not one of them.
And Breitbart’s pushing daisies. Whatever swill is on his eponymous site, he’s not concocting it anymore.
Michael, I didn’t say Powell lied. I said he believed, and repeated, things that were obvious lies. Notwithstanding whatever propaganda Saddam was spreading to keep Iran in check, there were weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq. They knew it was complete and utter BS. And they told the U.S. and the UN this over and over.
“I’m not sure it’s our responsibility to police the world.”
I am in complete agreement with you on that, Michael.
Dan, Do you think the world is a better place without Sadam?
“Dan, Do you think the world is a better place without Sadam?”
Not necessarily. Saddam’s overthrow launched a process that’s destabilized a huge chunk of the Middle East. Am I glad he’s out of power/dead? Yeah, I reckon.
Is the world better off because of that? I doubt it.
Is the world better off because of that? I doubt it.
Michael Moore didn’t think so either. Leftwingers love leftwing dictators.
OBL didn’t matter either until Monkey Boy was lucky enough for Bush’s special forces to get him.
BTW, 0bama addressed AF Academy yesterday. Unbelievably he once again took credit for OBL’s capture.
The Navy Seals sure don’t like it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137636/Osama-bin-Laden-death-SEALs-slam-Obama-using-ammunition-bid-credit.html
Michael,
I think the world is a better place without Saddam Hussien. However, we could have paid the Israelis a couple of billion to take him out for us and would have been much better off.
Also, I think Dan is correct in that taking him out destablized the region significantly. To think we, the U.S., could ever build a working democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan is lunacy. Nonetheless, we’ve spent 10 years, more than a trillion dollars and too many lives trying to do just that.
Dan writes, “50.Michael, I didn’t say Powell lied. I said he believed, and repeated, things that were obvious lies. Notwithstanding whatever propaganda Saddam was spreading to keep Iran in check, there were weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq. They knew it was complete and utter BS. And they told the U.S. and the UN this over and over.”
No Dan…the inspectors were NEVER given complete access to Iraq; there was ALWAYS places the inspectors were never allowed to go. And remember, Iraq was supposed to allow Iraq’s nuclear scientists AND their families to leave the country. At the last minute, Iraq decided not to allow the families to leave.
Even Hans Blix said that no WND were found’ but they weren’t given complete access.
But we know they had them. They were used on the Iranians and the Kurds. Where did they go?
I don’t think Powell deliberately lied…I think he was set up with bad info by Cheney and the neocons before presenting at the UN.
Working for Bush did nothing for Powell but to tarnish his previously sterling image. I bet he wishes he had that decision back.
The world would be a better place with a lot of bad people gone, that is not justification to start wars however. Saddam types are in a lot of places wreaking havoc. The repercussions of the idiocy of the Iraq War will haunt this nation for decades at minimum.
I agree we (literally) cannot police the world, but if our presence keeps a peace, ends the slaughter of innocents, causes a deal to be brokered or furthers the efforts of people to free themselves of tyranny, I think it is what a great nation does. This ridiculous “Nation Building” Bush Doctrine bully your way in and take over is for the birds and will never be something we should do as it makes enemies and does not make us look like a great nation at all.
OrlySuzie, is there a trash bin you people will not dig in? Asked and answered.
I think I agree with you
Phil,
The inspectors said there were no weapons. As time dragged on and Saddam was getting more and more fearful of the saber rattling, he expanded the inspectors access significantly.
We all no know for certain that were were none.
Are you saying it’s merely a coincidence that the inspectors were right?
Let me clarify my position I’m not opposed at all to taking a country for the oil, I just wish we would be honest about our intentions. Oil is National Security, when we win we should get the spools but we never do.
“Let me clarify my position I’m not opposed at all to taking a country for the oil, I just wish we would be honest about our intentions. Oil is National Security, when we win we should get the spools but we never do.”
But we never got it. The easiest way to get it would have been to lift the sanctions against Saddam and not invade.
#56 Oh no, Phil is one of them tinfoil hatters on the WMD thang.
And the hardest way to get it was to start another war in the area and alienate even people who wanted to work with us.
I wish you were joking. Seriously, you are “not opposed” to invading, killing, maiming and taking over a sovereign nation that has done nothing to us just to confiscate their resources? What happens if we are not the big dog one day? What the hell kind of ideal is that exactly?
#61 Michael A. Howdyshell posted, “Let me clarify my position I’M NOT OPPOSED AT ALL TO TAKING A COUNTRY FOR THE OIL,” {my caps}
Wow Michael A. Howdyshell – just wow.
So you evidently don’t mind sending our young men and women to war for oil? and you don’t believe in another country’s sovereignty? Guess you believe the Bush doctrine should then be expanded to our using a pre-emptive strike for precious minerals such as europium or lanthanum – now controlled mostly by China.
Where is the line drawn in your statement “taking a country for [fill in the blank...]
Michael,
What makes you think that the U.S. is entitled to oil or other resources that happen to be in other countries??
MichaelH, are you saying that basically we should maraud around the world looking to knock over countries and loot them?
This wouldn’t work with oil..OPEC controls the marketplace, and anyway why the heck should we finance a war so oil companies can get oil free then hold us up for it at the pumps?
“63.#56 Oh no, Phil is one of them tinfoil hatters on the WMD thang.”
Ok, gdad, which part of #56 makes me a tinfoil hatter. More importantly, are you OK, gdad? How in the world were you able to post without including an insult that would make a drunken sailor blush?? Now, see if you can pinpoint my mistake in #56. What do I have wrong?
#69 Let’s just start with the part about knowing they had them because they used them on the Iranians and Kurds. Yes, LOOOOONG before our unfortunate invasion that is. Does that mean they STILL had them? Apparently not, since even George W. Bush doesn’t seem think there were any WMDs left.
#69 BTW, I’d say that my insults rarely would make a drunken sailor blush. Maybe suzie or Contrasuzie or Steve C or Warren or pammalalala or Tack/Jony or Dublin Dawg or even Kristen or Sandi on occasion, but me? Come on. I’m not even sure how I pissed you off so much last time.
Steve C is definitely the insult champ of this blog, in terms of “in your face.”
Henry and Kristen are good, too, though both are sly.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/18_blix.shtml
No Phil, that is not what he has said.
What “would make a drunken sailor blush”?
Ok ok I knew that would get a response. I guess I should explain my thought process. We historically go to war to defend our national interest. The first gulf war was fought largely because there was legitimate concern of Iraq taking the Saudi oil fields and holding the world hostage, IMO. That is a fight worth fighting. If, for example, Iran was going to block the straits and restrict the flow of oil than that is another reason to go to war. If a country refused to sell the United States Oil than that could be a reason to go to war. Oil is vital to our national security interest. Like I said earlier I don’t think Iraq threatened our National Security when we invaded them the second time. I also think special forces could have been used to destroy the Taliban and other terrorist groups. North Korea and Iran might be real threats and will probably have to be dealt with someday.
Michael,
North Korea? Get serious.
North Korea is too busy starving and faking up dummy missiles to ever pose a genuine threat to us.
Sorry, your “thought process” does not match up to what you said. I think your train jumped the track. I think the world may have to “deal with” Iran at some point (especially if we keep provoking them with our blunders), but North Korea is a day’s work or so and no threat to anyone but themselves. Starving people are hard to marshal. We cannot go into a nation and take their resources, even if they “refuse to sell to us”. China and India are competing for the product now which is a real part of why gas is so expensive here, demand has gone up, and have you seen the prices in Europe? It is a volatile thing but we cannot “control” it by taking over a nation.
#75 Michael A. Howdyshell posted, “If a country refused to sell the United States Oil than that could be a reason to go to war.”
I think you need to stop digging that hole….
You are probably right Dan, not be worth the money it would cost. Strictly from a financial position I could almost be a Ron Paul Supporter. We simply cannot afford to be the police men of the world anymore.
Kristen how did that work out for the Romans or England? Probably not in our long term best interest.
Michael,
North Korea isn’t even a paper tiger. They’re not even a paper kittycat fetus. Everybody running that country is either stone crazy or brainwashed or both. And because of that, the people there are starving to death. It’s a great example of the dangers of authoritarianism.
But that comes in different stripes, you know. NK is communist authoritarian. Nazi Germany was corpro-authoritarian (i.e. fascist). Both are bad.
Forget about killing or morality, Micheal emphasizes money first.
Micheal would use financial cost/benefit analysis to decide when to violently steal the resources of another country.
Micheal thinks imperialism is the best part of American history, becuse Micheal thinks we sent soldiers to the western Native-American territories, Mexico, Cuba and the Phillipines to defend our national interest.
Micheal sees America’s interests in the 21st century as being separate from the rest of the world.
Micheal thinks that a country refusing to sell the U.S. oil is a good reason to go to war.
Micheal has sons. Does Micheal think their lives are worth using to protect Exxon/Mobil profits? Micheal thinks financial analysis is the best way to decide, and Exxon/Mobil agrees with Micheal.
Sandi #73…there is plenty in your leaks to support my claim…such as,
The primary difficulty with looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, said Blix, was the “problem of proving the negative. For example, how can you prove that there is not a tennis ball in this room? Or that there is no anthrax in all of Iraq?” The United States and the United Kingdom wanted black-and-white answers, and instead they got “lots of shades of gray in the reports.”
They had to protect this country and all they were getting were “shades of gray.”
“
#70 All they had to do was account for the wmd’s everyone knew they had in 1991 to stop the invasion….just show us what they did with them. Sadaam and company documented everything they did. Certainly if they disarmed unilaterally, they would have proof.
Sandi,
What in the WORLD woud scare you about the “Oath Keepers”? have you read the ten orders that they absolutely refused to follow..even if directly ordered to?
If not, check them out HERE:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
In case you hadn’t notice…they are all to PROTECT American citizens….in other words, they are DEFENSE of us….not OFFENCE. They specifically SAY they won’t be “coming after you”, even if they are odered to. You should be thankful for them.
SHEESH!!
THIS is the type of organization that should scare you.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/22/disappointed-in-obama-new-black-panthers-openly-consider-the-bullet/
Although we should be a little happy to read that they are at least beginning to wake up a little bit,in regards to how the Dems treat the Blacks.
Michael H, the world is a much better place w/o Saddam in it but that doesn’t necessarily mean its safer.
If there was one country Iraq hated more the Israel or the US it was Iran, a country Saddam waged war with practically at our request, for 8 years. Grant it, Iraq has been a total pain-in-the-ass for America since 1990 but they have arguably effectively worked to check Iran’s bat guano crazy instincts for far longer. Once we removed Saddam, this buffer evaporated, thus making the middle east and the world a far less stable place.
History will look back on this monumental miss-calculation as one of the biggest military blunders ever. Whatever our stated objectives were, there were far more efficient ways of killing this dictator than we ultimately deployed. And killing Saddam was Bush‘s objective regardless of what history revisionists want to say. At the end of the day there’s no way the calculus works to our or our allies advantage. Iran presents a far greater threat than Iraq ever did. This indefensible epic train wreak was on every level Bush’s vanity war against a guy who tried to kill his Daddy and nothing more. In the end this war didn’t only not advance our security or our standing in the world, it diminished it on every level.
I’m not even going to dignify the dopey and misguided argument that we would somehow be able to plant the seeds of democracy in the region because it was obviously an epic fail on every level beginning with the exercise of their newfound freedom to slaughter Christians, not to mention the 4486 American lives lost in this hapless debacle.
Not to bust on you too much, Michael, but you’ve also made the argument some time ago against the US cutting the Pentagon’s budget because of the threat Iran supposedly presents to us. You’ve also inferred a number of times that you claim to be an economic conservative. How do you square this incongruence when we spend over six times what our closet competitors does in military spending? I’ve proposed indexing our military spending to 15% more than whomever this theoretical competitor might be, currently saving the national deficient somewhere around $476 billion dollars. What do you think about this approach? I ask you because you are obviously a well educated guy but you sometimes seem to get tangled up in ideology rather than being able to make a coherent case from an honest economic conservative point a view, a perspective that troubles me considering that we both in all likelihood revived our MBA’s from the same school. I personally hold people who have graduate degrees to a far higher standard than I do the rest of the general populace, which is why I often get confused at your intellectual inflexibility to allow your political dogma to tussle with readily available empirical data.
Phil sounds like a proponent of the old Neocon shell game. Hide some mustard gas under a shell then move it around between Iran, Iraq and North Korea. Oops, not under Iraq…next…
Sharon,
What a terrible thing to waste one’s mind. You are what you read.
Not only is U.S. military veteran Steve C this blog’s reigning king of insults, but he’s a pretty damn good geopolitical analyst to boot. Who woulda thunk?
Somehow I knew you would defend the OathKeepers and condemn the Black Panthers. You truly have no clue and I am tired of trying to explain things to you.
Phil, like Sharon N and Suzie, you just blithely ignore the truth right in front of you.
Blix, “the man first charged with finding those weapons said that the U.S. government has “the same mind frame as the witch hunters of the past” — looking for evidence to support a foregone conclusion.
…Blix accused U.S. President George W. Bush and U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair of acting not in bad faith, but with a severe lack of “critical thinking.” The United States and Britain failed to examine the sources of their primary intelligence – Iraqi defectors with their own agendas for encouraging regime change – with a skeptical eye, he alleged.”
You are and remain wrong!
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/18_blix.shtml
For people with better analytic skill than Sharon, Suzie and Phil:
“…but he considers the Bushmaster essential in his preparations to take on the US government when it declares martial law.
His belief that that day is imminent has led Pray to a group called Oath Keepers, one of the fastest-growing “patriot” organizations on the right. Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers. Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, and Pat Buchanan have all sung its praises, and in December, a grassroots summit it helped organize drew such prominent guests as representatives Phil Gingrey and Paul Broun, both Georgia Republicans.
There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey “unconstitutional” orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.”
There is not one damn thing to make me think they will “PROTECT American citizens”. You are delusional to think so.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers
#87 I don’t know of a single Dem or liberal who has any use at all for the New Black Panthers. They’re listed as domestic terrorists.
Sharon N, “The Ballot or The Bullet: which way for black people?” Funny how that line about ballots and bullets bothers you now that a black group has used it. You never once showed concern when the “TEA Party” did. Hypocrite! Ask you BF about that one would you?
Y’all ought to read the rest of that article Sandi links to. It’s about a bunch of would-be Timothy McVeighs, who are in the military and out of it, and number in the hundreds if not the thousands. One of the leaders is a Yale Law grad, go figure. They love their guns more than their kids and seem to be burning to spill blood — their own and others’ — all in the name of a completely warped notion of patriotism.
I believe the New Black Panthers is a group invented as a strategic distraction by some white RWers just so they can play the racial bogeyman game with seeming justification.
“its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans”
Then they’re smart enough realize their Bushmasters are like bean-shooters against an Apache. All this militia talk is empty rhetoric.
The Tea Party started that bullet box crap right here in Virginia, Sharon N, way back in 2009.
“We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box, before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that’s the beauty of our Second Amendment right!”
–Catherine Crabill, Tea Party nutcase and GOP candidate for Virginia’s 99th House of Delegates district.
Unbelievable!! DUH Sandi…the Unconsitutional laws they are protesting are ones that take away YOUR freedom and liberty too, protect YOU from unlawful detention, illegal search and seizure, etc. The Jews in Germany woud not have DIED if they had “Oath Keepers” in Germany at the time.
Talk about DENSE!!!
Anyway, I am out for tonight.
I feel very bad for Idiot Boy. He’s had a terrible few weeks.
First he spread the stupid made-up story about Mitt tying his dog to the car roof, then it comes out 0bama ATE dogs.
He lied about Mitt attacking a gay kid (who wasn’t gay and wasn’t attacked). Then it comes out 0bama pushed a girl around. (Talk about a war against women!”
Now he made a big deal about one of the 5% of Bain clients that failed (even though Romney was long gone when it happened), and gets the whole phony narrative cut down by a liberal black mayor Cory Booker.
It’s such a shame when dirty tricks get foiled.
Sharon, you are well qualified to talk about “dense”, I will grant you that, but you are so wrong it is laughable about Oathkeepers and what they plan to do. Keep that head buried and racist but stop pretending others should agree with you.
Art, it was not empty rhetoric to McVeigh. These people are disturbed and they are being played while people like Sharon are being brain-washed. There is danger in the rise of militia and “patriot” groups.
We are a nation of laws. Individuals, or groups of them, no matter the uniform, do not get to decide what laws are constitutional and which will be obeyed. I do not like the Patriot Act but it has the full force of the law until revised or repealed and no soldier, police officer or militia member can gainsay that. Nor should an active duty soldier be talking about armed revolt and preparing to disobey “martial law”. These are Suzies and Sharons with guns and a head full of BS people. It is only going to be funny until something happens. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Ft Hood, Oklahoma….
McVeigh was a lone nut “avenging” Waco. For all the hype, these chest-thumpers have zero chance of defending against anything.
Sandi writes, “You are and remain wrong!” Perhaps, but nothing in your links or anything you have said comes close to proving that. Your links, at the end of the day, support me….NOT YOU. Blix even admitted that before 1991, he misjudged greatly Iraq’s nuclear capabilities. The only thing Blix and co. told us definitively before the 2nd Iraq invasion was, “We haven’t found any yet.”
Precisely right Art, these are destructive brainwashed, ignorant, yet dangerous fools. There will be no “martial law” declared and there will be no need to refuse any orders, there is no army of armed revolt possible, but it makes them and the Sharons of the world feel better to believe they are clinging to the constitution they don’t understand than that they are pawns used by forces they do not even realize. No one is letting these fools within a mile of any command or control. Hence he is stateside sucking up taxpayer money while saving for his “Bushmaster”!
I get a kick out of those guys who put up concertina wire around their lot at the trailer park and declare it a sovereign country. That being said, there’s nothing about them that’s qualified to determine what’s constitutional and what’s not…we have a judicial system for that.
49
Kristen, very nice response.
While I do not agree with homosexual behavior, I am a sinner. My sin is equal to all of that which I am opposed. I am no better. If one of my children ends up having a homosexual disposition or desire, I will love them no matter what. I will not dis-own them.
Steve C
Very good questions. I will be very honest and admit I waffle on the issue of military spending. My business partner who is conservative and a former Naval Officer happen to think our military spending is way out of control. Apparently we are building another aircraft carrier; I believe we have 10 operational now. It can be argued that we need another carrier as much as I need another kid. While I believe in a strong military I think future conflicts will be fought more with Special Forces than with tanks and carriers. As Warren points out my biggest and first concern is our financial security and we simply cannot afford the level of current and past spending in the future. I believe we have to cut all spending including military.
Warren to answer your question, your damn right I do. When I was just a small child my brother got caught in his fourth year college being part time as he only lacked a few hours to graduate and was planning to attend graduate school. When he was reported as part time he was drafted. The military did allow him to graduate before enlisting. Someone, I’m not sure who suggested going to Canada as Vietnam was in full swing. Of course my brother never considered this as an option but I did hear my father commit, during the Carter Administration “that any son of mine that ran to Canada would no longer be my son”. My Father was a WWII veteran and his Father a WWI veteran… Although my brother was not crazy about the military he enlisted did basic at Fort Polk and spent his career serving in Military Intelligence in Korea, just one of the many things I’m proud of my older brother for.
So Phil,
“We haven’t found any yet” has the same meaning as “They’ve got WMDs coming out their ying-yangs.” Seriously?
Do you also believe that North Koreans must be the best fed people on Earth, because they’ve got no food?
Dan, Sandi et all….it must be kind of nice to be so blindly trusting of our Government.
When Ms. Crabill talked about resorting to the bullet box, she was AGAIN referring to defense, not offence. Like the Oath Keepers who are kind of “we hope it never happens, but if it does, we are committed to protecting you…..and yes we will KILL to protect you if we have to.” that IS EXACTLY what the 2nd Amendment is all about.
I mean, I kind of understand….we are in Roanoke, a nice small city, we don’t HAVE the gang violence that is a problem in other cities, we are mostly friendly to each other, and tolerant of different people’s point of view on political issues, you condmen the Tea Partty, when nationwide, our actions have been NOTHING like the nationwide actions of the OWS crowd, but you glorify THEM, because they are HERE, and don’t cause any problems..HERE. We don’t have the racial conflicts..HERE that they do in other cities. I don’t remember hearing anything about brutal beatings or bullying in our schools HERE, because we wouldn’t tolerate that. We don’t have black gangs targetting white folks, in retaliation for Trayvon, or for any other reason HERE. I don’t remember race riots after the Rodney King or OJ Simpson verdict HERE. You all have a hard time believing that Rawsome Food stores, and organic farms have been raided and their livestock taken away and killed, because it hasn’t yet happened HERE. SO MANY other examples…but my point is…what if it WERE happening HERE? Would you feel any differently THEN?
I mean, to me, it is just lunacy to sit here in our safe little Roanoke Valley and not pay any attention to what goes on outside of it, and it looks like you won’t pay any attention to it until it’s too late. I mean My GOD, you “spin” an organization that is there to protect you until you are afraid of them, and totally IGNORE a direct threat made against you.
Yea, Sandi, you betcha I am going to agree with the Oath Keepers and not the Black Panthers…Oath Keepers are here to protect you, the NEW black Panthers want to kill you because you are white…and your babies too.
http://ironicsurrealism.com/2010/07/06/new-black-panther-king-samir-shabazz-youre-going-to-have-to-kill-some-crackers-youre-going-to-have-to-kill-their-babies-video-transcript
Isn’t THIS “hate speech”? Where are the charges against THEM? OH, that’s right, Eric Holder’s policy is that there is no such thing as hate speech if it it said by black people…and evidently, no hate speech if it is said by gays against Christians either. No one says a word, the Prez doesn’t condemn it, nothin’ is said. You all excuse it because it was said in Philadelphia, not here in Roanoke…but, what if it WERE?
Sandi, since no one else will… I kind of need to point out the glaring hypocrisy of your earlier post….when FIRST you say…..
“We can be accepting of your views of the world, as soon as you stop calling ours “trashy”. A soon as you stop calling everything you dislike a “progressive idea”. Do you not see the problem with that? I have never asked you to respect my ideas. I have only asked you not to call me names while explaining your own. And you still cannot do it. And you really try, I know you do. This is just plain sad”
And then END it with…..
“The conservatives on this blog are treated exactly as they treat others. You cannot see that because you agree with the trash they fling.”
It would be funny if it weren’t so absurd.
Sandi:
“Funny how that line about ballots and bullets bothers you now that a black group has used it. You never once showed concern when the “TEA Party” did. Hypocrite!”
Kristen said that rioting by black people was simply their way of having a revolution and passed it off as acceptable. Hypocrite!
I most specifically do not want anyone calling themselves the “Oath Keepers” killing anyone in my “defense”.
Sharon, you either support what the country’s about, or you don’t. You either buy into the whole system we have, or you don’t. I don’t need a bunch of jacked up toothless overly-armed inbreds with their own extra-constitutional ideas enforcing their will in MY name. We have 1/3rd of our government dedicated to figuring out what’s legal and what’s not…if the “Oath Keepers” want in, let them become judges.
I believe most of those who join extremist groups are not only anti-social types, they are unhinged. They spend a lot of time ranting about government’s constitutional intent until their extremist dogma reduces the vision of government to a bogeyman.Their anti-government rhetoric rises to feverish levels, and those with a predisposition toward criminal behavior and obsession with weapons act out in violent ways – always against the innocent. McVeigh took his hate of the government out on those he did not know and children who were in a day care center. The act of a coward with such a paranoid hate toward his own government. There are many like Timothy McVeigh.
“The slaughter engineered by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, men steeped in the conspiracy theories and white-hot fury of the American radical right, marked the opening shot in a new kind of domestic political extremism — a revolutionary ideology whose practitioners do not hesitate to carry out attacks directed at entirely innocent victims …killed 168 people, including 19 children in a day-care center. Another 500 were injured.”
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right
As Norwegians learned with the 2011 attacks by Anders Behring Breivik, neglecting the threat from the right (or other ideological extremes) can leave society dangerously vulnerable.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/03/opinion/brooks-bridge-homegrown-terrorists/index.html
The Southern Poverty Law Center documents 75 plots, of varying degrees of operational advancement, between July 1995 and June 2009 and an additional 22 from 2009 through November 2011.
…20 plots initiated by white supremacists and 17 by violent anti-government militants”
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right
Sharon N, it must be awful to be so fearful of our government.
LOL..okay Kristen, you and Sandi be SURE that if “martial law” is ever declared, and the “feds” come after YOU, to unlawfully detain you or anyone in your family, or search your house, and confiscate your food or your valuables, you be sure that you send them to someone who appreciates it. You don’t want to be hypocrites, after all.
If you think about it TOO, what sort of people excuse Obama’s affilliation with Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, and radical race baiters, Marxists and Muslims, yet, are “afraid” of the Oath Keepers?
And whoever asked me above how my BF felt about the article I linked yesterday, let me tell ya. His first comment was a slight smile, and saying…”so, they are finally getting the picture huh?”, but when I asked him, who do you think they are going to use those bullets ON?..it almost sounds like Obama, but that can’t be, can it?…so, who? He couldn’t answer…as I can’t.
The “word” around the conservative blogs is that once Obama realizes that he going to get a worse shellacking than he did in 2010…that he is not going to go quietly…something is going to happen, A “Reichstag Fire” scenario, something that is going to cause such civil unrest in the Country that he will use it as an excuse to declare martial law, and postpone the elections indefinitely. Most seem to think it is going to be a well planned and phony assasination attempt on Obama, that he can blame on the White Conservatives…and get the liberal blacks so riled up that they loot and riot and he can then declare martial law. I wonder what would happen IF that happened, and the blacks DON’T riot and revolt, like maybe the New Black Panthers insinuate that they wouldn’t, but more on that later.
Some seem to think it will be the civil unrest that will happen when the dollar colapses and/or the Country goes bankrupt..and grocery stores run out of food, and no one gets their welfare checks, and any money you have is worthless..that will bring about martial law…and insist that this is closer to happening than we may like to believe.
Obama/Congress just signed the NDAA (?), giving Obama the authority to declare martial law during peacetime…he appointed an “assasination czar”, Homeland Security just ordered and received 480 million rounds of ammo. Obama holds no regard for the Constitution or the Supreme Court…you think they are going to protect you?
Martial Law may be declared a lot sooner than we would LIKE to believe. I’ve never understood why “liberals” seem to think that their “I heart Obama” t-shirts are going to protect them when the crap REALLY hits the fan. It’s not going to make YOUR money worth anymore than mine, nor is it going to put food on the Grocery store shelves, which BTW…grocery stores only keep about a 2 or 3 day supply of anything on hand…when it runs out, being in our safe little Roanoke Valley isn’t going to protect us either.
Well, on my and my BF’s experiences with black friends etc. since the Obama election….I can think of ONE instance in particular….when Obama was still running for Prez, but hadn’t elected, my BF went to the house of a good freind,..when he started talking about Obama not REALLY being a Black American with the same “heritage” that they had, the lady of the house went OFF..kicked him out of her house, told him that he was NOT going to “talk sh*t” about the wonderful Obama in HER house. About a year or so later, after Obama had been elected, the subject came up again, and she said “Obama is the DEVIL!!, I’m so sorry that I ever voted for him!!” LOL..I had to point out to my BF that even WE never called him the “devil”. Black friends who at first were like “Aww, give the brotha a chance, why is everybody picking on him?”….are NOW saying things like..”Obama’s really screwed up, I’d never vote for that idiot again.” Now, we see the New Black Panthers..(I call them the NEW Black Panthers, because the OLD Black Panthers at least have sense enough to disown this lunatic fringe of their group)..anyway, now even THEY are saying, “what’s up with this Obama? I thought he was going to really DO something for Black People, and we are worse off than we were before. Gee, the Dem party has really ALWAYS just “used” us.” Will they vote Republican? Nope, probably not, they just won’t vote.
It’s way PAST time to wake up people.
#118 – I think Sharon N went over to the dark side…that’s what all the “conspiracy” theories do to one’s “brain”…all those “some people” quotes…yikes. Get some serious help Sharon N, there are a great deal of meds out there for paranoia…
#118 = 767 words. What is the summary Sharon? You have some interesting points, but we can’t really discuss all 25 points in each post.
I’m not shaking in my shoes, Sharon N, so sorry that you are. I swear some conservatives must be born with a conspiracy theory gene. That has to be the reason for the lunacy.
If scientific studies haven’t been done, they should be.
Man, 767 words is an entire column! Sharon, when my bosses realize that you’re writing about 10 columns or more on this blog for free every week, they may get rid of me quick. So cool it , eh?
#118 Sharon N,
Dear God almighty; I’m speechless. I don’t even know where to start with this train wreck of a post. Apparently your BF ain’t the only one crackin’ into the 12er of Natty Light on the ride home…
Sharon, it’s also PAST time to sign up for that intro composition course. Did you save that link to VWCC or do you need me to resend it?
Dan,
I wouldn’t worry about Sharon N snaking your job; once your editors realized she’s plagiarizing Shakespeare they’d 86 her.
“Sharon, it’s also PAST time to sign up for that intro composition course.”
Steve C, you’re asking to paint the Titanic.
When Obamageddon never happens, there will be some disappointed folks out there.
Sharon N, I say this as a fellow blogger and human being, get professional help. You’re losing it, kid. No, really…
Ya’ll just need to peak your heads out of Dan Casey’s blog for a few minutes and LOOK at what is going on out there. Rather than sitting in here beliveing a bunch of “Obvious lies” yourself.
Honestly, I picture Obama laughing his butt off at you fools, who don’t hold him accountable for anything, he can get away with a BAD forgery, he doesn’t have to do any better, he can cook the books, and you believe the “obvious lie” that he spent less than any other President. He is up there saying that we might not elect him because he has a funny name and he’s black…LOL…like he hasn’t just spent 3.5 years in the White House. His Senate can’t submit ANY budget at ALL for all these years, they are AWOL from even TRYING, Obama submits one that even the Sentate can’t get a single vote for, and yet it’s the Republicans who are to blame for no budget being passed. He loses 40% of the primary votes in 3 States!!..and Biden blames it on the Tea Party and racism. He can’t run on his record, so he just keeps making the same old empty promises…or trying to scare you on how much worse it would be if anybody but HIM were in “charge:.
We’re the ones stating the obvious…”The emperor has NO CLOTHES”, and you call us crazy for not believing you when you tell us that the lint in his navel constitutes “clothes.” LOL.
I didn’t tell any lies in my above post….GOOGLE it!! But, you won’t. You would rather sit here all self righteous, and hide your faces from the truth.
I hate to see the end of Summer beause it always comes too soon, and yet..I can’t WAIT til November. Especially if Obama keeps up with his daily “exploding cigars”. At least they keep me entertained until then.
Sharon N, you are simply delusional. I said I would respect Michael H if he could manage the same without insult. I have never and will never, not as long as I breath say that to Suzie or you. You are an enemy of this nation IMO. Not to mention an affront to good intelligent prose.
Sounds like we just read the introductory chapter to a new Ayn Rand novel.
Soon it will take longer to read SharonN’s posts than to read something worthwhile like The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich or the complete works of Shakespeare.
Sharon, I’ll agree you didn’t tell any lies. You actually believe that stuff.
BUT: you can’t prove the B/C is a phony, you merely want to believe it is.
NOBODY said Obama spent less. The claim is the INCREASE in federal spending is less than under the other presidents. You misunderstood that.
SHOW US the video where he said we won’t elect him because he has a funny name and is black. He didn’t say it., and he wouldn’t. We elected him, for God’s sake.
BUDGETS can’t originate in the Senate (this is in the Constitution).
LAST TIME I checked, 60 percent of the vote in any election is a WIN (and did Romney get that number, back when there field had more than Ron Paul in it?
THE TRUTH, Sharon, is that the Republicans on the Hill have stymied Obama at every turn. They’re TRYING to sink the economy so they can blame him for it not recovering strongly. They’re committing economic treason. Why are you so blind to this?
In summary . . . you didn’t tell any lies. You simply don’t know what you’re taking about.
Sandi, Thank you I think
It is beyond sad Debbie. When you think of what this nation has lived through and it is a black man in the White House that makes them lose their minds. Jim Crow is a happy corpse!
You know Sharon N, since you first started posting on this blog, I felt like you were a person with good heart, you were just a little misguided. Your posts recently, especially today’s show me that you are way past misguided. You are up to your neck in the Looney Tunes river and going completely under fast.
It’s not that you disapprove of Obama, that doesn’t bother me, I don’t care. It’s that you and people you admire truly believe that the scenario you described in your post at 5:48 will happen.
OMG, Sharon N really is bonkers.
Think of it this way, Sharon N: Romney, who you are most likely to vote for, wants to cut Terps’ taxes and raise yours. And you are hunky-dory with that because your “principles” tell you that Terps ought to be paying less in taxes than he is paying now, and you should be paying more. (All you need to do is cut back on the limos and private jets and you’ll easily be able to afford the extra taxes).
Perhaps you will think of it as doing your part for national debt reduction. Except that, the Romney tax cut proposal, if it was ever enacted, would blow the lid off the national debt worse than it’s already been blown off. Your taxes will be higher, Terps’ will be lower, the debt will grow deeper and you seem fine with that.
It’s wrong-headed thinking.
Sharon N, I take up for your positions more than anyone on this blog as you have a lot of good points from time-to-time (though they’re tough to find in each briarpatch of a post). You need to realize that six or seven hundred more mords will never clarify or sway even one lefty on this blog and you are ultimately leaving tracts on doors that were bolted long ago. Perhaps instead of studying 3% on 95 issues, you could study 95% on 3 issues that matter to you.
This profound statement,
“I didn’t tell any lies in my above post….GOOGLE it!!”
is merely fodder for the lefties. Using the simplest of Google searches, I found evidence that Elvis is working for the DEA, the sun does not revolve around the earth cover-up, and that Senator John Warner is actually a “Reptillian Warrior Leader.
The internet has spread information farther and faster than ever though to be imaginable, previously. The worst part of it though, is that there are a lot of people panning for profit or attention taking the smallest grains of sand and selling them to a lot of folks as beach-front property. Sharon N, you are on the front row of that auction. Think about it…
“The internet has spread information farther and faster than ever though to be imaginable, previously. The worst part of it though, is that there are a lot of people panning for profit or attention taking the smallest grains of sand and selling them to a lot of folks as beach-front property.”
Like Joe Farah!
Well said John Wilburn! Maybe she will listen to you.
There it is, Sharon N. When polar opposite Sandi and I are in agreement about anything, it’s like a rare 9-0 Supreme Court decision on a controversial topic and at least worthy of your consideration.
Apparently, neither of us have completely given up on you.
Well said, John Wilburn. Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.
Sharon, no one on here is blinded or in denial. We are concerned about your mental health. If you continue to visit those web sites that are fueled by paranoia, you run the risk of being destroyed by paranoia and fear.
Oh please SharonN…the same group of “conservatives” talk about the same “martial law” crap every time it becomes evident they’re going to lose another election. Why would Obama even consider “martial law” when every indicator points to him winning handily?
Seriously, if you’re going to spend this much effort stressing something, find something more legitimately threatening, and by “more” I mean…at all. I’m with Debbie on this…you used to seem to have a few odd opinions mixed with a few not-so-odd ones…and now you’ve hopped the crazy train full time.
And I’ve noticed the conservative conspiracy machine goes dormant when a war-manufacturing Cheney/Bush admin is in office. Just sayin’.
I’m not overly pleased with our current president. I think, for example, that he should have spent the first 3 years of his presidency working on improving the economy instead of healthcare reform. We should be out of Iraq & Afghanistan by now. Nonetheless, all the birther crap & nearly every other argument about the legitimacy of the Obama president is a smokescreen to the real objection to Pres. Obama. That’s his race. There are significant elements in our society who haven’t recovered from the shock that we actually elected a president who isn’t white.
I think Sharon missed the last message I posted along these lines, but it bears repeating so I’ll say it again: Sharon, Romney wants to RAISE taxes on the poor and CUT them on the rich.
At the same time it blows the deficit out of the water, it will INCREASE poverty. Do you think this is a good thing?
She said before that she doesn’t support Romney, but she’ll hold her nose and vote for him simply because he isn’t Obama. There are a lot of others who feel the same way.
Comment by Ron — May 26, 2012 @ 10:03 am
+1 on all points.
Ron,
It is amazing how often we agree on many, but not all, points.
Dead on post.
“She said before that she doesn’t support Romney, but she’ll hold her nose and vote for him simply because he isn’t Obama. There are a lot of others who feel the same way.”
She will vote for a guy who’s going to raise her taxes, and cut Terps’. She will vote so that some of her hard-earned money can be transferred to Terps. In other words, Sharon’s money will be redistributed to Terps.
Forgive me, but hasn’t Sharon complained on here are the (gasp!) “redistribution of wealth!!!!” ? I know Terps has complained about it. BUT, at least he is HONEST about the redistribution of wealth. When the redistribution benefits him, he’s all in favor of it. It’s only when it’s the other way around that he’s against it.
Sharon, meanwhile, seems like she’s only for it when it hurts her. That is WEIRD.
Dave Hicks,
Like I’ve said many times I’m moderately conservative, but several on here and across the country don’t recognize such people much anymore. That’s why people like Sen. Richard Lugar lose primaries.
Comment by Dan Casey — May 26, 2012 @ 8:14 pm
Trickle-down insanity?
Trust the talking points/bobble-head mindlessness?
Lack of historical knowledge?
Who know what’s at play for some folk.
To his credit, the president realized our current health care system wouldn’t survive another twenty years without some kind of reform.
The howl from the Right over a plan they themselves had authored shows how difficult a job it was. Obama struck while the iron was hot, he knew he might not have the votes later on. It turns out he was right.
Oddly enough, the group most concerned about the Constitutionality of the PPACA are the insurance companies. If the law is overturned the Republicans do not yet have a comprehensive plan to take it’s place. Their current strategy is to codify those provisions that are the most popular to the voters, such as no denial to pre-existing conditions and dependent coverage to 26 years. Without the individual mandate to increase the risk-pool big insurance will be forced to eat these increased costs. Some industry analysts believe this could lead to instability in the market resulting in bankruptcies and mergers of surviving companies. Who knows, we could actually end up with single-payer by default.
For people who were paying attention instead of just hating on Obama, the “health care” juggernaut with the pending “baby boomers” busting out all over has been the sword swinging over the economy for many years and the reason some were working on it through several administrations. Like Art says, who knew the TP/GOP was going to become unhinged when Obama was elected and refuse to even recognize their own plan. Once that war was declared Obama had no choice at all. If Obama could have known their level of depravity, he likely would have not cared what was coming, like many before him.
Dan,
Since WHEN are the American People supposed to be the ones to “Prove” that his B/C is a legit? He “applied” for the “job”, it up to HIM to prove he is qualified for it……well, eligible anyway, we all know he is not qualified.
This is pretty much what I am referring to when I say your wonderful Obama must be laughing at you……first, he throws up ,on the Internet ONLY, mind you, a short form COLB…..tells you that is all that he has…and you believe it, begin the attack on “birthers”..well, last year, even Chris Matthews says..”Why doesn’t he just SHOW the LF Birth Certificate?” So, Obama throws up, again, on the internet…..a Bad forgery of a long form B/C..hmmmm. thought he didn’t HAVE one, even Gov. Abercrombie, who was determined to find it….couldn’t.
Obama: “But, hey, that’s okay….the “attack dogs” will come out and run interferrence for me….they don’t question ANYTHING I do or say!!”
Now, we see a literary BIO when he was promoting a book he never wrote….saying that HE reported that he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii….which wasn’t changed until he decided to run for Pres….hmmmm, we have that ALONG with the AP report back when it looked like he was going to win his bid for Senator saying “Kenyan Born Obama ALl Ready to take Senate Seat”. When did he lie? THEN or NOW?
What is Obama’s response? Silence.
What is YOUR response?..”Yea, keep digging in every trashcan you can find”.
His “attack dogs” do the explaining for him AGAIN. If he really IS perpetrating a huge FRAUD on the American People….he must really be laughing at how gullible you all are. To the insiders who are HELPING him perpetrate this fraud….he has a great excuse to tell them…”Yep, see how stupid and lazy the American People are? Overthrowinig THEM is going to be a cake walk”
To blame it on “racism” is just stupid. Read sort of an interesting opinion piece today….seems to be spot on.
http://patriotupdate.com/articles/old-white-liberals-stuck-in-the-60s
Sandi, those of us who listen and think are not a danger to the Country…folks like YOU are. Who will sell out your Country for..WHAT? exactly…..I don’t understand it? What’s in in for you? Has the Country gotten better in anyway at ALL since Obama has become pResident? Talk about someone who votes against their own self-intrest!! Perhaps my wording was a little strong in my last posts…but OMG..I get so frustrated that you all can’t SEE what you are doing.
To whoever said 60% of the vote in those 3 States is STILL a win…OMG!! Read that again, and THINK about it. Obama is the INCUMBENT, NO ONE is seriously running against him….in 3 States…..DEMOCRATS took the time to get dressed, go to the polls, and vote AGAINST him, in one State where there wasn’t even a phony candidate, just nobody,….40% voted for NOBODY over Obama….get a grip!!! You HONESTLY thnk that stuff like this suggests a HUGE win at the polls? Honestly?
The only people who think he is going to win..seem to be saying so because they are saying he is going to cheat, like last time, and people like YOU are going to be helping him by calling Voter ID “racist”.
I have a link where it shows that the Obama campaign is again accepting donations from phony and/or foreign people….like Adolf Hitler…..with a German address. the Romney and Santorum Campigns kicked those same donations out…but, not Obama’s. I don’t want to risk losing all this to link to it here, so will link to it in a bit…probably on one of the 1st page open threads.
As to the other Dan….I saw it a couple of weeks ago, I don’t remember exactly where, but, I’ll try to find it for ya…it was in one of his campaign speeches I think…and one site listed it either as an Obamurism….or another exploding cigar.
#154 Sharon N,
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp
I know you can’t communicate in the English language, but can you read it?
Do not hesitate to reach out if I may be of further assistance. Really, it’s no bother; I’m just doing my part to stamp out ignorance.
#154 Sharon N,
The Romney campaign has taken note of your very compelling case regarding President Obama’s citizenship and is conducting a thorough investigation of the very salient facts which you thoughtfully provided.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/
#154 Sharon N,
You better hope to God suz doesn’t get her way with her IQ test for voting because you’ll be the first person to lose their rights.
You are simply too obtuse to be counted on to make an informed and responsible decision about the direction of this country. Hell, you can’t even compose a post that makes sense, so why do you think anyone would ever listen to you?
Sharon N.
Just for you.
I want only the first 300 words of any post to display. The system should trash the remainer automatically.
SharonN@2:47
After reading this novella, I immediately went to the bathroom and threw up. It was perhaps the sickest and most sickening of he many sick posts you have made on this blog. I’m not sure how you can stand yourself after serving up such a steaming pile.
167
Sharon,
Steve C is just upset because he failed both conditions of my voting test:
1) Basic knowledge of economics and government
2) Enough earned (over the table) to file a return.
I do have to specify “over the table” because some temps get paid in cash and, believe it or not, cases of beer.
Oh, joy, someone’s out of weekend confinement.
Dave, I didn’t even bother reading all of her novella. All I could think of was John Wilburn’s comment about the tiny grain of sand being sold as beach-front property. His post #137 appears to have been completely ignored. It’s sad.
Debbie, when I see a Sharon novel with all it’s numerous capitalized words, the inevitable implication that those who do not agree with her simply are not thinking, and ten topic minimum, I just scroll past and read the subsequent comments instead. Kind of like a bad youtube video where the comments are better than the video.
Note to Sharon N: If you answer this or any other post with more than 300 words, I will read no more Sharon N posts. Your posts are ineffective. One great definition of stupidity is to answer a failure by doing the same thing and expecting different results. I encourage you to retool and refine your posts to breathe new life into your message; it is worth getting across, isn’t it?
#156 Wow, Romney is part of the Obama BC conspiracy now. Cue the space aliens.
John Wilburn, I shall no longer read her posts because I think she has lost it mentally. She is completely bonkers.
#162 Yeah, Art, I think you go in on Friday evening and get out Sunday late. That about fits.
#166 Debbie, I had pretty much quit reading them but every now and then somebody else mentions something EXTREMELY weird she’s said, so I go back and scan. Problem is, that’s happening just about every post now. We have or have had other posters, such as suzie, MMM, pammala, terps, BM, and DD, who seem to go on these little manic streaks (look at BM’s sudden bizarre explosion just a day or two ago) every now and then, but Sharon N really seems to be out in lala land.
Obama declaring martial law and canceling the election? OMG.
Speaking of refusing to read posts, whenever someone provides a link without a description like Poodle or Ron often do, I don’t read it. Not worth the time.
Hint to leftwingers: If you want people to read your links, provide a one-sentence summary. If you don’t, I ain’t reading it. If you write “Interesting link” followed by the link, I ain’t reading it, because I don’t give a crap what you find interesting. Usually it’s leftwing drivel from Salon or someplace.
Providing links to reasoned articles and opinion pieces= good
Being egotistical enough to think that anybody gives a damn whether you
have the intelligence to read them or not=priceless.
#169 I’m not sure whether it’s even worthy pointing out that even when one DOES provide a summary, troll suzie usually refuses to read it unless it comes from a complete nutcase site like WND, Limpbaugh, or FR. Recently, I gave a little summary of a story chronicling the way Romney has shifted his abortion views. suzie called it a lie, but because she never went to the site, she missed the fact that the story was completely and fastidiously documented using words that Romney either wrote or spoke along with links to the writing or sound clips.
John Wilburn @ #164 “One great definition of stupidity is to answer a failure by doing the same thing and expecting ”
I see where you were trying to go with that, but the quote is actually, by Albert Einstein : “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Might be more apropo, no?
apropo
OMG. Let’s throw in two “nickes” for that one. LOL.
“Let’s throw in two “nickes” for that one. LOL.”
Wow. If any of the RW brain trust could help me out here…what precisely are “nickes”?
LOL. LMAO.