Put your thoughts here about today’s ‘Obamacare’ ruling
Steve Petteway | Wikimedia Commons | Balloons by Dan
Are you reacting with glee and dishing a triumphant “I told you so!” or moaning the fate of health care in America, or the status of the U.S. Constitution?
Answer that question in the comments below and then, tell us what it portends for:
1) Health care and or insurance;
2) November’s congressional elections;
3) The November presidential election;
4) The political ambitions of Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli.
June 28, 2012 - 10:00 AM
STRUCK DOWN. Praise God!!!
The individual mandate is upheld . . . what planet are you living on, Suze?
This does not auger well for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli’s acumen regarding what is constitutional and what is not.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPeeeeeeeeeee!!
Democrats a Big WIN – President Obama BiG WIN,
most ill-informed – crash and burn LOSER again…
I’m praying for my country regardless of the decision. Things are not well. Pass or fail, healthcare is a blip on the radar to the trouble she faces.
Sad very sad. Losers get supported by achivers again.
I have to say, never thought of the mandate “as a Tax” scenario. I have to respect the ruling of the SCOTUS.
However, Obama sold this to the people…specifically…as NOT being a tax.
I disagree with the poster above, this is a short-term victory for the Democrats and Obama. IMO I see this energizing the GOP and others in the middle.
TAX is a bad word. That’s why Obama elected NOT to call it that and, in fact, denied that it was.
We’ll see.
Suzie – did you key up the wrong comment like your cohort Richard Mourdock?
This was a tremendous decision – Ken C. may want to brush off those notes from his Constitutional Law course.
I would note that in our contest to predict the fate of the individual mandate, Aaron was the only person to guess 5-4 with Roberts in the majority. Paul Morrow and Victor Bonguard also believed the mandate would be upheld 5-4, but with Kennedy in the majority.
So Aaron wins a book and the title of the reigning Supreme Court prognosticator on this blog.
Congratulations Aaron..are you clairvoyant?
In defense of Suzie (can’t believe I’m saying those words) CNN did initially report the individual mandate was struck down. Their text and email alerts (even their website) reported it.
Fortunately, after about 5 minutes, they got it right.
Ken Cuccinelli’s legal acumen takes yet another stunning blow.
He lost in his heavy-handed attempts to investigate grants awarded to a former UVa climate scientist (and cost UVa hundreds of thousands in legal fees in the process).
He’s so far lost on his ill-advised challenge to the EPA’s ability to regulation carbon dioxide as a health hazard.
By far the biggest loss came today, when the Supreme Court upheld the individual mandate 5-4, after Cuccinelli had confidently swaggered that the mandate was unconstitutional.
How many more times, on how many more big cases, can an AG be wrong?
Here is what Obama said about it in 2009.
“Obama: Mandate is NOT a tax.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/09/obama-mandate-is-not-a-tax/
“STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…
OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase. Any…
STEPHANOPOULOS: Here’s the…
OBAMA: What — what — if I — if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that’s not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don’t want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then…
STEPHANOPOULOS: I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — “a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.”
OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what…”
Obama comes out looking even worse.
Regardless of the spin.
This IS a tax on the middle class. You better believe Romney will hammer him on it.
CNN misreported initially. Yeah, Roberts disappointed. Now we have to handle it when Romney wins.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
So LC,
Do you consider yourself middle class? If so, how much will this “tax increase” under the Affordable Care Act cost you.
I’ve been trying to figure this out. Because I’m middle-class, too. And on me, the “tax increase” is going to be zilch.
LC – and what do you call Hunting licenses, Fishing licenses, building permits, or have you ever looked on your AEP bill…all those “fees” are taxes too, no?
If you do not have insurance, why must I pay higher premiums? If you don’t keep insurance and ride on the backs of those who do, do you prefer that system?
Don’t mindlessly criticize – think a little.
“Sad very sad. Losers get supported by achivers again”.
Comment by Michael A. Howdyshell — June 28, 2012 @ 10:23 am
Michael A. Howdyshell , do you like paying higher premiums for those who will not carry any health insurance? If you are hit by an uninsured driver, who may have no assets, suing them will cost you – how is that working out?
Are my auto insurance premiums higher because of the uninsured? Yes. Are my auto insurance premiums higher because of the rate of unbuckled drivers? Yes.
You are already paying for “Losers”…when they don’t follow regulations and laws. Get a grip!
Why would you want to pay higher health insurance premiums because of people unwilling or unable to do so?
This is the beginning of the end of America as we know
and Love it. God Help us.
I see SuzieQ has finally freaking lost it.
She won’t be the last. Suck failure, RWnuts.
MikeH, the fact that you’d mischaracterize people with preexisting conditions as “loser” is pitiful, but whatever.
A couple of ramifications here. Since the court ruled this fiasco a “tax”, Romney will be able to say 0bama reneged on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class.
Also, this should energize conservatives to behind Romney to get this tax overturned pronto. Romney should shout to the rooftops about abolishing it. Most Americans do NOT want 0bamacare. They do not want us to turn into Europe.
But this additional loss of liberty and spiral into socialism is depressing. Roberts has obviously been swayed by the Washington influence. If this liberal creep (a thing, not a person) isn’t stopped, I wonder what up-and-coming country will take our place as the world’s greatest Meanwhile, we’re fast becoming another England or France; both once the greatest, now ravaged by decades of big government.
Congratulations to #SCOTUS for alloing the United States to join the 21st century and provide health care for it’s citizens — like the rest of the world! Woo-Hoo!!!
Is Roberts a sith lord? Bad for the country. This one is gonna hurt, especially the younger generation.
IDK, maybe someone will invent one of those trees that grow money?
“This is the beginning of the end of America as we know
and Love it. God Help us.”
Keith, this wasn’t the beginning, just Obama putting the finishing touches on driving this once great nation into the ground.
Actually, I just went for a drive up the street to fill my tank up for the upcoming weekend (2.85 WOOHOO!) and thought about the decision some more. I was thinking about the close decision of 5-4 with John Roberts crossing the “party line” and comparing their wisdom with that of the wisdom of the pocket pundits that frequent this blog.
It’s emblematic of the divisive nature of politics today. There is a very vocal minority on both sides that have both convinced themselves their views are better than their counterparts, and they are so convinced they cannot fathom that the rest of the world doesn’t want extremism.
Guess what. We don’t.
16
Right.
But, Obama sold it as something else. That’s my point.
What happens if someone can’t afford this new TAX?
@18: The rest of the civilized industrialized world has this type of plan in place and last time I looked the world is still here. Stop crying over something that probably doesn’t even affect you!
“Also, this should energize conservatives to behind Romney to get this tax overturned pronto. . .Most Americans do NOT want Obamacare.”
That’s right. As we all know, conservatives were NOT energized against “Obamacare” before the ruling. (Ha, ha!).
The fact is the proper name of the law is the Affordable Care Act. RWers have bastardized that into “Obamacare” and have engaged in a ceaseless campaign of lies that was designed precisely to turn Americans against it. And it worked, both for diehard RWers who will never give Obama credit for anything (these are the same folks who give GWB credit for killing bin Laden) and for a large swath of the American public who are either stupid or not paying attention.
The fact is, that Americans by a wide majority LOVE most of the key provisions of the law.
And now, Romney is forced into the position of attacking a federal law that has 1) been ruled constitutional by the the U.S. Supreme Court and 2) was modeled precisely after the law the Romney pushed through as governor of Massachusetts.
In other words, Romney has NO COVER now under which to criticize his own health care plan which was expanded to the nation. This only raises his profile as a flip-flopper.
Oh, the irony!
No, I believe if you want health insurance pay for it if you don’t don’t use the service. We are supposed to be a Capitalist Economy where one gets goods and services by working and paying for them. This is actually a good thing it will give Mr. Romney something to rally the base around for the election. Not sure how the ruling on Medicad will affect the States it MAY allow the States a way out of the Law
She won’t be the last. Suck failure, RWnuts.
Sh*t. Now I have to pay for Kristen’s kids’ medical care. As if I don’t already do enough.
Prediction: RWers will soon be calling Chief Justice Roberts “son of Souter.”
Dan,
As much as I like you, we just have a huge different vision for our country.
If a person does not have health insurance, but pays their medical bills why should they be taxed for not having health insurance. After all that person is meeting their responsibilitiy by paying their bills
And now, Romney is forced into the position of attacking a federal law that has 1) been ruled constitutional by the the U.S. Supreme Court
Just because it’s constitutional means squat. All taxes are constitutional. Doesn’t mean they can’t be attacked and overturned.
That’s right. As we all know, conservatives were NOT energized against “Obamacare” before the ruling.
If Romney hasn’t been conservatives’ #1 choice, they’ll sure be behind him as the result of this if he keeps pounding the idea of overturning 0bamacare.
22
I am talking about regular folks, Dan. Not political folks like me.
Romney will attack the ObamaCare TAX, Dan. Get it straight.
There will be an ad out TODAY, no doubt.
Dan,
Do you like Sweden? Very little differential in income as a result no one works. Achievers, hard workers and risk takers should reap the benefits that is what makes our country great. I will gladly live with NO safety net and take my chances in the free market. If I fail I don’t want a damn thing from any Government. What do you disagree with
@24, Out of curiosity, is the correct term Federal Tax? And should Romney then get the credit for this then since President Obama copycatted?
Dan. Do you think the wicked witch of the west, Nancy Pelosi, can now read what’s in the frikkin’ bill?
Today is July 28, but I don’t hear a fat lady singing. With fervor, the republican base will be more energized to remove the junior senator who hardly ever voted, community organizing snake out of office!
Don’t leave a mess under your desk ………..
I scanned about 500 pages of the ACA before coming to my decision that it was unconstitutional. The ACA even addressed Pell grants in the bill. How are they connected. My family members have seen their premiums increase and I ased each doctor that I saw if it would influence their practice and it would. Their would be doctors stopping practice.
Michael Howdyshell.
The ACA is actually the ROMNEY healthcare plan for the nation. The only logical cover under which he could criticize it was that it was unconstitutional. Now that it has been ruled constitutional, Romney’s renewed attempts to criticize it will only highlight his political hypocrisy — a well that everyone knows already is very deep.
1) Health care and or insurance;
☻Good news for 4 million eligible small businesses that can receive tax credits for employee health care coverage;
☻ Insurance companies can no longer place a lifetime limit on your coverage;
☻ “Donut hole” seniors will now be receiving a 50% discount on brand-name drugs if they’re part of Medicare Part D;
☻ Insurance companies can no longer drop anyone from coverage simply because they get sick; and,
☻Parents of young adults can continue keeping their children on their health insurance until their 26th birthday, if their children have no coverage of their own.
I believe this has lessened the stranglehold health insurance companies had on middle class families and seniors.
2) November’s congressional elections:
The ACA will now become the new ROE v Wade for the right… they will whine, then demonize the President, and then send fundraising letters with distorted “facts” about a “new” tax before the November election. They will find it will be a losing meme…voters will have moved on by then.
3) The November presidential election:
Romney will take credit for the SCOTUS ruling and begin touting Romneycare as the “model”. This too will be another losing pitch among Independents who will easily recognize the duplicity.
4) The political ambitions of Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli:
Unfortunately, I believe it will have no impact.
LC, how much is your tax under the ACA?
It’s zilch. That’s why you don’t want to answer the question.
“Today is July 28, but I don’t hear a fat lady singing.”
It’s calendar time for Bob.
The leftwing media will use this to try to resuscitate idiot Boy’s moribund campaign like they tried to use Seal Team 6′s capture of OBL to make Idiot Boy look like a military tough guy.
Nothing has changed, though. He’s been a diasaster in every respect destroying the economy, and now ruled to have enacted a new tax on the middle class.
To those (Suzie, et.al) predicting that the US will become “Europeanized” – look at Switzerland – not exactly a bastion of socialism!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/
“Features of the Swiss health system
Swiss citizens buy insurance for themselves; there are no employer-sponsored or government-run insurance programs. Hence, insurance prices are transparent to the beneficiary. The government defines the minimum benefit package that qualifies for the mandate. Critically, all packages require beneficiaries to pick up a portion of the costs of their care (deductibles and coinsurance) in order to incentivize their frugality.
The government subsidizes health care for the poor on a graduated basis, with the goal of preventing individuals from spending more than 10 percent of their income on insurance. But because people are still on the hook for a significant component of the costs, they often opt for cheaper packages; in 2003, 42% of Swiss citizens chose high-deductible plans (i.e., plans with significant cost-sharing features). Those who wish to acquire supplemental coverage are free to do so on their own.
99.5% of Swiss citizens have health insurance. Because they can choose between plans from nearly 100 different private insurance companies, insurers must compete on price and service, helping to curb health care inflation. Most beneficiaries have complete freedom to choose their doctor, and appointment waiting times are almost as low as those in the U.S., the world leader.”
Romney should appreciate the Swiss Heath Care system – after all- he likes their banking system.
Let’s see. In post #1, I quoted an erroneous CNN report. How many years hence will Gdad claim “Suzie lied” about the decision? Just like he said I lied about the thugs damaging the Capitol building when I cited an MSM story he said didn’t exist.
Trolls will be trolls.
Dan, this is HUGE tax on everyone. Make no mistake. What happens when the govt. taxes businesses?
The cost of the product or service goes up. Come on, you know that.
“We are supposed to be a Capitalist Economy where one gets goods and services by working and paying for them.”
This is nowhere in the Constitution.
The only disappointing part about this is that it puts off the adoption of Single Payer.
I don’t see how the unpredictable and unfortunate decision of one man (Roberts) in any way discredits Cuccinelli’s credibility.
A tax on the middle class? You have got to be kidding me. The tax is only imposed on those that refuse to buy health insurance or fools. If you are middle class and not buying health insurance then you are either a fool or simply calling yourself middle class. Without health insurance, you are risking everything you own on your health. If you have assets and taking this risk you are a fool. If you have no assets at risk, you simply are not middle class.
For any of the Tea Partiers on this site to claim it is a tax on the middle class is outrageous. This is a tax on those that have taken advantage of the rest of the taxpayers in the Country. We have paid their medical bills year after year with the rising cost of health insurance and medical costs. For the US to say you have to pay your way for medical coverage is a conservative policy that is fair, smart, and a needed means of protecting our health care system when coupled with medicaid for those truly without means to pay. Not the single payer system that would truly work better, but certainly a start to protect the US budget, our health care system, and our costs of health care.
Watch what happens to unemployment numbers.
I’m a little surprised by the composition of the verdict and the verdict itself, but on issues like this, with such a closely divided court, it’s hard to be shocked on any decision. Dan, I, for one will not be attacking Roberts or any other member of the court. However, it will be interesting to see how the liberals who have been so critical of Roberts will now praise him as a statesman, etc.
Given the Court’s decision, we will now just have to wait and see if this expansion of government power eventually morphs into other fields as well. It will also be interesting, to put it euphemistically, to see how high private health insurance premiums rise as all aspects of the law take effects. Even liberal analysts acknowledge that private premiums for those who laready have health care will rise as a result of this law, with some saying they will sky rocket. My current employer’s plan costs the employee over $900 a month now. With the average employee taking home about $2200 a month, they are paying a huge percentage of their take home pay for insurance already. If these premiums go even higher, I’m not sure how they will afford the Affordable Healthcare Act.
Health care aside for a minute, I’m actually a little more bothered by the Act of Valor ruling. Did the Supreme Court just make a lying a Constitutional right?
Tell you what else this shows. It proves the “tough questioning” of the federal lawyers by Ruth Buzzi Ginsburg and the stubby-fingered softball player was all a dog-and-pony show designed to make them look “thoughtful”.
The three mindless women on the court are an absolute disgrace. They set women back 100 years. They’re unintelligent and unqualified political hacks.
Another dark day in the history of the UN-United States Of Amerika!
38 Uptheriver – If have listened, Gov Romney has been credit for much of the ACA by the Obama Administration time after time. He and his state administrators were consulted in drawing up the act. That is the shocking part of Mitt (well one of many); he helped advise on the act, it used many of his ideas, yet he now claims it is a terrible idea. I believe that is called a flip-flop.
Don’t kid yourself RJB. This Act will increase the amount ALL people pay, not just those who don’t buy insurance.
Will this law effect me. I signed up for Medicare Advantage when it came out. Now I am told by insurance agents if I choose to go back to original medicare I can not get supplemental because of pre-existing condition–under control. Would insurance be required to give me supplemental under the ACA?
54. Suzie – What a shame you continue to resort to name calling when things do not go your way. I had a wonderful evening last night with a couple that makes you look liberal and poor watching the Olympic Trials at their home. We discussed politics yet not the first foul word was uttered. Yet, you cannot accept a conservative Supreme Court decision without name calling the women on the Court and Roberts. Please grow up.
On behalf of every man, woman and especially child whose life will be saved thanks to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and this Supreme Court decision, I say thank you, and God bless America.
what is the act of valor ruling. I suppose that lying could be called constitutional because of freedom of speech. That does not mean it is morally right.
This is NOT a TAX is what the Obama Admin kept saying and now the SC says its OK becuase it is a TAX? With this approval the Federal Government now can tell you what to do no matter what it is and they can fine you if you don’t do it. Welcome to Socialism! I hope everyone who wants something for nothing are happy and will continue to love losing more rights as they continue to be taken away from us.
I am happy the ACA was upheld. Surprised that Roberts chose the right side and dismayed that the lies continue.
Michael Howdyshell, your idealistic zeal is sweet but you surely know that we do not have a free market. We “Americanize” capitalism. We have the corporate welfare, bribes, protection and payback that were never supposed to be part of the system. We have the regulations, oversight and penalties that were supposed to be self fulfilling but turned out not to be. We do not have “pure” Capitalism, so the idea of the market deciding is bogus and you know it. Even in “failure” you claim to risk you have protections that the free market never intended and does not support.
1) Health care and or insurance; will be improved when all is implemented and working and more changes can be made to strengthen and better the system.
2) November’s congressional elections; will be a battle royale and sold as the fight for the heart of this nation by the right and a step into the light by the left. We will maintain a divided Congress.
3) The November presidential election; will continue to be a choice on going forward with a President who has faced a withering task and never quit or a choice to go back to the failed wealth serving abyss growing Bush/Cheney agenda. The choice is startling for anyone who can get past their right wingtips and see the truth. The country in your ideals has never existed.
4) The political ambitions of Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli. I hope they are as dashed as his hopes of hurting Obama. He is a right wing ideologue who is both dangerous and inept and he clearly puts politics above his constitutional duties.
God the right is such a bunch of sore losers. Can’t even imagine what this fall is going to look like.
SuzieQ, I am so enjoying your little offering in the #1 spot. Your usual accuracy.
UpTheRiver, I don’t really understand what you’re saying. A healthy populace is vital to any nation, and if a country doesn’t enjoy good health what exactly do the rest of the challenges matter? Sick people can’t earn (and pay taxes), can’t fight in wars, can’t engage in the acts of service a country like the US requires. I don’t think ACA is perfect but on the other hand, I have great insurance – THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT – for life. This wasn’t for me…and I don’t expect every little thing the government does to BE for me. This is for people who need it.
If I wanted more insight into the impact of ACA, I’d ask someone who now has coverage that didn’t have if before.
And RosemaryHodges, if you’re on Medicare, please don’t complain about this. It’s not for you either. Why we’ve decided that senior citizens are some sort of sacred cow that should be mandated afforable coverage – while leaving the earners and the future earners of the population hanging out to dry – I have never understood.
The biggest issue I have with forced insurance for all is this: everybody “has” to have insurance. But I think it should be set up more like car insurance–if you have a car, you buy the level of car insurance and a car that you can afford (payments, gas, repairs, etc.) But not everyone needs/wants/can afford a car. Therefore, health insurance should be similar. If you are physically & mentally able to work and/or financially secure enough to not work, you should be allowed to choose the level of health insurance you can afford or desire. If you don’t meet any of the qualifications, there exist 2 things in the world to help: family and charity. Government has no business making it their business to replace or regulate self sufficiency, family and charity.
I read somewhere that justice Kagan was involved in insurance or health care before being appointed to Supreme court and shoud have recused herself from the decision on ACA. Just repeating my understanding of what I read. Anyone familiar enough with circumstances to give any opinion
The court did not say lying about your “valor” was right, they simply said it was not a crime.
DJIA tanked on the ruling. Libs think that’s good news.
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Rush just played a clip of Idiot Boy VEHEMENTLY denying to George Stephanopoulis that 0bamacare is a tax.
—-
Romney to his credit made a very forceful remarks reiterating the ruling was wrong and that he’d immediately undo 0bamacare. He’ll paint it as the largest tax increase in American history which it is. Excellent strategy!
Unless the insurance companies disprove their own points, the increased participation will bring premiums down. The whole “pool” idea that they pushed is supposed to work that way.
#60 Hallelujah Dave!!!!
Health care stocks getting the hell beat out of them today. Each of them down at least 3%. If this disaster should survive, look for the demise of the private insurance companies, giving us a de facto single-payer system. Which was the goal all along.
0bama could never have sold it by telling it what it was; the largest tax increase in world history and elimination of private heath insurers.
Rosemary Hodges #58, you should call the local LOA office in Roanoke (1900 Valley Rd Daleville, VA 24083 (540) 966-1094) and see if they can answer your insurance and Medicare questions. They are used to that kind of stuff, I have no earthly idea how this affects your situation. For what it is worth, I hope it helps you, but it is far from perfect or perfected. It will need work for a long time to get all of it right.
You can quibble about this or that, but the #SCOTUS did the right thing. We lag so far behind the rest of the world in caring for our sick and elderly (at least those without millionaire’s riches). There is no excuse for us not helping out our fellow Americans. None. And I challenge anyone here to dispute that last point.
The Largest tax increase in world history! Enjoy it. Obama and the democrats in congress told the American People this was not a tax… As for Roberts what do you expect for a Bush family “conservative” appointee. I blame Bush for this ruling.
Here is an e-mail update from the Atorney General’s newsletter. I agree with him and will add nothing:
“June 28, 2012
Dear Friends,
This is a dark day for the American people, the Constitution, and the rule of law. This is a dark day for American liberty.
This decision goes against the very principle that America has a federal government of limited powers; a principle that the Founding Fathers clearly wrote into the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. The Constitution was meant to restrict the power of government precisely for the purpose of protecting your liberty and mine from the overreaching hand of the federal government.
This unprecedented decision says that Congress has the authority to force citizens to buy private goods or face fines – a power it has never had in American history, and a power King George III and Parliament didn’t have over us when we were mere subjects of Great Britain. Since the federal government itself could never articulate to the court a constitutional limit to this power, Congress has gained an unlimited power to force citizens to buy anything.
I am disappointed with the court’s ruling and with the unprecedented attack on American liberty the president and the previous Congress have created with this law.
Stay tuned – I will be providing more analysis on this in the coming hours, as well as next steps.
Sincerely,
Ken Cuccinelli, II
Attorney General of Virginia”
“Your taxes…and the long drunk arm of the law.”
(sorry for the diversion,,,but there are things here for boys and girls alike!)
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/06/27/4064354/tarrant-county-sheriffs-deputy.html#my-headlines-default
#57 Chuck – were are your proofs of your statement, “Don’t kid yourself RJB. This Act will increase the amount ALL people pay, not just those who don’t buy insurance.”
Health care insurance premiums may in fact, go down because the insurance company will gain many many more customers. The insurance industry was in favor of the ACA – why? More customers.
You probably believed in the Reagan “trickle down” premise? Well you are about to see it in action – insurance premiums will go down.
#54 most ill-informed
GROW UP. You are a loser. Your post is more mindless stereotyping hate…
Mr. Beason, I just want to tell you that I always enjoy your posts.
I’m predicting a decrease in abortions, due to women now knowing affordable, decent healthcare will be available to their children and themselves.
First, Two things.
1 – May you live in interesting times
2 – Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.
I am not going to belittle or try and persuade anyone of anything here.
Just ponder, Exactly what ARE the limits on the power of the Federal Government? If the executive branch can simply declare that it chooses not to enforce laws with which it disagrees, then what IS the rule of law?
Make no mistake, while the stated goals of this law are high minded and laudable, the execution of it will have far reaching ramifications.
Just because the rest of the world does something doesn’t make it right here.
Just because 5 men and women said something is so does not make it so. If the supreme court decreed the sky was hot pink, does that make it so. I do not need any law degree to know what is constitutional and unconstitutional. The fact is, that most of our modern federal government exists in violation of the constitution.
This ruling will likely actually be beneficial to me as I will be able to get coverage for a price that I cannot get it now. I have the integrity to say to you that that does not make it right.
@Rosemary Hodges-
It was 6-3 striking it down. And no, of course it isn’t right, but the SC’s purpose isn’t to decide what is right, but what is legal/Constitutional. As a people, we have guarded freedom of speech very tightly, and that means protecting speech that we might hate.
These military frauds are disgusting, but it’s easy to check their claims.
Ah, the schadenfreude! Let us bask in it’s warming glow.
Mike, you don’t let your neighbor die when you can do something to save him. Get professional help, dude.
Rosemary Hodges,
If Kagan had recused herself, the ACA would have been upheld 4-4.
“I am told by insurance agents”
Get a new agent, yours is full of it. Have a great day!
John Wilburn,
Here’s an edited translation of Cuccinelli’s statement:
“Dear Friends,
The courts have ruled I was wrong AGAIN. Boo Hoo!
Ken”
“…with the unprecedented attack on American liberty…”
JohnW, I see he has the same penchant for a dramatic turn of phrase as you have.
I would have preferred…”drove a stake through the heart of American liberty”…but that’s just me.
And this is nonsense, but to date Cooch hasn’t demonstrated much in the way of acumen in assessing higher courts. I have to laugh at his blathering about King George and health insurance…priceless. It didn’t even exist when the FF and he were around. Who cares?
Really Maloof…Bush has been out of office for 4 years now. Stop blaming him for everything.
John Roberts ruling today was HUGE! Not just for the healthcare law, but just in terms of judicial precedent.
–A line has clearly been drawn where the commerce clause cannot reach,
–Precedent was upheld in congressional taxing power,
–And beyond all of that, a clear precedent has been set showing that it’s the duty of the court to find any possible way to rule current law constitutional.
Oh, and the fact that the 5-4 Roberts in the Majority makes me look like a SCOTUS Prognosticator. Yeah, that title won’t last long.
So Kristen, you’re a Socialist?
MichaelH, I’d say I’m a hybrid. I don’t believe in entirely binary questions or answers.
If wanting to see the supposedly bestest country ever on the history of the planet ensure the health of its citizenry makes me a socialist, then sign me up as a big YES.
13 suns I agree. Mr. Beason’s posts are always well written and thoughtful.
This is the best:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare
All the crybabies who don’t want affordable healthcare and decry socialism all want to move to Canada… Where…. there’s “socialist” healthcare. LOL
Just goes to show you how ignorant people are about the ACA. Hooray America, Land of Education.
In the wake of today’s decision on the Affordable Care Act, the most immediate need for healthcare in this county is providing assistance to those with ODS. Thus here is a guide to understanding the stages of grief, so that sufferers of ODS may start to heal:
1st Stage: Denial.
This stage, bolstered by reports like Fox News’ mistaken initial announcement that the individual mandate had been struck down, can last for a variable length of time. It is exemplified by reactionary conservatives saying things like “STRUCK DOWN. Praise God”, “Roberts has obviously been swayed by the Washington influence”, “Today is July 28″, and “I don’t see how the…decision…in any way discredits Cuccinelli’s credibility”. Small business people, such as a part owner of a construction company, may be in denial of the truth that eligible small businesses will receive a tax credit for employee health premiums. But grief based denial can take many forms, and some types of denial may take some time to emerge.
2nd Stage: Pain and Guilt.
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with pain, exemplified by recognition that the ACA used the Romneycare plan as a model, and guilt, exemplified by remarks like that of poster #47: “Trolls will be trolls”.
3rd stage: Anger and Bargaining.
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame on someone else. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion, exemplified by remarks like: “This is the…end of America”, and “What do you expect for a Bush appointee. I blame Bush for this ruling” and “The three mindless women on the court are an absolute disgrace.” Please try to control this irrational anger, as permanent damage to your own psyche may otherwise result.
You may also try to bargain for a way out of your despair, e.g. “Give Romney credit for this” and “We will now just have to wait and see”.
4th Stage: Depression and Reflection.
Just when you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. Stretching out before you like the dog days of summer, the realization of your loss can wear you down like a relentless heat wave. Resembling a climate change denier with beachfront property in hurricane season, or a gay bashing conservative outed as gay, during this time it is normal to sense feelings of despair, but the best response is to stay quietly to yourself while you reflect on your loss and the mistakes of your past.
5th Stage: The Upward Turn.
As you begin to adjust to the new realities of your life, your negative thoughts become calmer and your depression begins to lift slightly. You begin to reconnect with some of the people whom you’ve supported in the past, such as giant multinational corporations and career politicians who enjoy guaranteed government health insurance.
6th Stage: Reconstruction and Working Through.
As your rational mind starts working again, you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions. There may be a new willingness to listen to others, to consider measured change, to grant credibilty to Hawaiian birth records, and generally to consider the motives of the sources of your information.
7th Stage: Acceptance and Hope.
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled by facts YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward, with the feeling of grateful release that a dog might feel after a long terrifying ride on a car roof.
*This guide to recovery is provided to all citizens at no cost, under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010.
I understand that people are worried about the cost of this. The Feds have a pretty dismal record of estimating program costs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicare part D, War in Iraq, War in Afghanistan, War on Drugs…) you get the picture. But Obamacare is not the apocalypse. In fact, if Obamacare reduces or eliminates the instances of people who end up in bankruptcy court because a catastrophic illness impoverished them, then maybe it’s worth whatever it costs.
Good God in Heaven! From the rhetoric of the right wing, WWIII has started and our shores have been breached. Conservatives are really pushing the hate, fear and anger cards, even for something as important and needed as health care reform, you cannot work with anyone not drinking your koolaide. It is not a sad day, but you are sad lot indeed.
That the ACA has pushed for us all to be in that same insurance meat market might be offensive to your sensibilities but it is about damn time from my perspective. I am tired of sacrificing to pay for health insurance and seeing people without it still get good medical care without it because they are willing to risk it. Insurance is the system where a pool supports the system and it cannot do that if only the responsible people participate. Apparently there are just not enough of us. This is YOUR “free market private business” model, not the public option I support so stop the damn whining!
Michael Howdyshell #89, it has always struck me that as we so often take this and that from many sources and “Americanize” it, why we could not take the best ideas of all of the philosophers from Socrates to Smith to Marx and use the best of them to our advantage.
It is ONLY because it is politically expedient to demonize that with which you disagree, that even a good idea or a good person has to be labeled “socialist”, “marxist”, “communist”, “nazi”, or “totalitarian”. Because of our own stupid pride, arrogance and mindset, we diminish what we can do by fighting for an interminable amount of time over it all. Why do you think the Nazi and Hitler analogies are thrown out like chum on a regular basis? Only the weak minded racists and bigots admire either, but it stops no one from lobbing them, even here, on a regular basis.
Please raise the level of your argument and stop lying about us all being “socialists”, marxists, communists…
Art,
I would give him the opportunity to work and advance so he could buy his own health care. This is certainly not the way I was raised. I was raised to work hard, go to school and take care of yourself and family. If you can’t afford things don’t get them. If you want better things make more money by increasing your skills or taking more risk. What is wrong with that?
While I don’t like it I understand why the Supreme Court ruled the way they did. I had not considered the possibility that the “penalty” was in fact a tax. Congress has the Constitutional authority to raise taxes to 100%. While I’m sure Dan and the liberals would like that it will never happen, and this “Law” stands an excellent chance of being overturned in a new Congress. It appears to me this country is on the road to a European form of Socialism which is really sad.
It sounds like Michael Howdyshell is coming out in favor of the Swiss (that is European) health care plan.
Kristen,
I don’t know you, I don’t think, but I like you. I want to see people covered also I just don’t think this law and the Federal Government is the way to do it. The United States offers the greatest opportunity for achieving success of any place in the world. Based on my travels abroad I believe that to be true. In our attempt to create a “safety net” we are decreasing the opportunity for achievement. I keep saying I’m ok without any safety net.
Yea right Dan, my best friend’s wife is from Sweden, they don’t work there, very little opportunity to excel.
Karl Marx?? Great philosopher??? Really.
MichaelH, A) no one’s being “given” anything here….just the chance to buy it. And B) I dont’ see how a safety net for the next guy decreases your chance to succeed…as has been told to me here, it’s not a zero-sum game. You’re still free to buy whatever you like for yourself and your family.
If you and your family already have health care, it won’t effect you. So what’s the problem? I really don’t get it.
Michael, you do realize that a lot of the people in this nation who are homeless, jobless and without insurance today felt exactly the same way you do when they were “making it” before the economic collapse? I know it is easier to pretend that all of the uninsured, all of the people caught in the housing bubble, all of the people down-sized or let go were just worthless or worse, liberals, but the reality it that unless you are truly independently wealthy (and I mean millions in the bank), ANYONE is one long term job loss, one cancer, one natural disaster, one chronic disabling injury or illness away from bankruptcy and losing all but what the safety nets and the generosity of family and friends offers. You need to let the ideal go because no one lives in an ideal world, not even you.
#68 “DJIA tanked on the ruling. Libs think that’s good news.”
Actually, it’s right wingers like you, Oliver, who think this is a good thing. You’ve been cheering every drop in thee market for months.
For your reading pleasure: http://tinyurl.com/6sq6bc5
[All 193 pages.]
I honestly don’t know what to think about this system. My preference would have been to study how most of the industrialized nations do it, figure out what would work for us, and use some system based on those but adjusted for our economy and circumstances. But it appears that Obamacare will help a significant number of people.
One thing I do know I learned from, of all people, Lou Dobbs. Back when he was still on CNN and the debate over Obamacare was moving along, he did a nightly feature that described the healthcare systems of industrialized countries around the world.
A number of similarities existed:
*Pretty much all of them used some kind of socialization or subsidization.
*They all spent much less of their GDPs on health care than we do.
*Their citizens, without exception if I recall correctly, gave far higher approval ratings for their systems than we do for ours.
*There was no evidence of severely compromised care. Just about all of them had better numbers by every way that one can objectively measure the health of a nation.
No system is perfect, not close. I hope that this marks at least a good step forward.
Michael Howdyshell, Could you please explain how asking someone to buy their own insurance rather than having the rest of us pay their medical bills is socialism? It seems just the opposite of socialism to me, perhaps you can elaborate.
I think we are all overlooking the two most important questions today’s SCOTUS ruling brings up:
1) Will Rush Limbaugh really leave the country as he stated he would do if the ACA passed?
2) Will Bill O’Reilly really apologize for being an idiot as he said he would?
Sweden sounds awful…who could possibly use all that paid vacation & sick time?
The Swedish welfare system — often referred to internationally as The Swedish Model — can be described as providing lifetime benefits for all citizens. It is a social and economic system whose guiding principles are full employment, equal pay for equal work and the collective welfare of society as a whole. Salaries are comparable with other industrialized countries and Swedish residents enjoy a very high quality of life, consistently placing Sweden near the top of the United Nations Human Development Index.
By most standards, life is comfortable in Sweden. Education is free from six years of age to university, and most health care and pension benefits are paid for by employer and income taxes. Take, for example, an average couple in Sweden who both work full time. They are likely to have a three-room apartment and may have a small summer cottage in the countryside. The couple is able to afford a car and a yearly vacation abroad.
Like all other workers in Sweden, they also enjoy a minimum of five weeks of paid vacation per year, along with paid sick leave. If they have a child, they are entitled to up to 480 days of paid parental leave. The couple is also allowed up to a combined 120 days of paid leave per year to care for sick children.
During adulthood, parents in particular are able to enjoy a good balance of work and family life. After retirement, elderly citizens are supported by pensions and services made possible by the taxes and contributions paid during their working years.
Sweden sees many of these benefits as necessary rights for everyone, regardless of income or social status. They help to make sure that all children are educated and healthy, and that people from all parts of society are offered equal opportunities. But it’s also understood that people have to contribute to make this inclusive system work, and most Swedes seem content with what they get for the taxes they pay. It is a collective effort; if everyone contributes, everyone benefits.
Kristen,
Good question. Our insurance people tell me the ACA will, over time increase our cost. Your right we have health insurance and will continue to do so, I think this will raise what my company has to pay for health insurance. I might be wrong, hope I am and if so I will gladly admit it.
I believe in State Centered Federalism, I don’t believe the Federal Government should be involved in the health insurance of the citizens. Sandi, I don’t know anyone that has lost their house or car or anything else for that matter even in this horrible economy.
Michael, I did not use the word “great”, you did. I said why not take the best ideas and use them, regardless of where they come from? We do that for many things beyond politics. Scientists, engineers, technology jocks, athletes, and mathematicians, will use data and information from many sources for their work, to produce the best outcomes.
Of course that would take away a right wing crutch and therefore it will never happen, but it is the smart thing to do.
97. Michael Howdyshell – I need a little more information from you, if a person should not buy what they can’t afford, what is their solution for cancer, injuries from an auto accident with an uninsured drunk illegal alien, a child born with major complications? What are your suggestions? Perhaps, crawl down to McDonalds and ask for a second job, or perhaps apply to school and get an online education? No, can’t do that, the hospital just kicked you out of your home and took all your possessions. What do you suggest?
Please do not give me the tired, well they should have planned ahead. That is not reality. Very few plan ahead for serious health issues and even if they did, next to none could every pay for the care if they had been saving since they were 5.
“Our insurance people tell me the ACA will, over time increase our cost. Your right we have health insurance and will continue to do so, I think this will raise what my company has to pay for health insurance. I might be wrong, hope I am and if so I will gladly admit it.”
Michael Howdyshell,
Of course, your costs were increasing before ACA, too, correct?
11 Michael Howdyshell – “Sandi, I don’t know anyone that has lost their house or car or anything else for that matter even in this horrible economy.”
Michael, you tell us how well you are doing and how no one has lost their homes or cars and yet claim a horrible economy, please make up your mind.
Perhaps you should step out of your daydream and realize that many have had it pretty bad, for instance the teachers, firemen, police, home contractors, and RE agents that have lost their jobs. You know, those that Obama has tried to get Congress to help. Yet others in the economy are doing very well, like you, having record profits. It is hard to listen to those with record profits complain about the economy.
I find myself agreeing with Susie.
Nothing Roberts did reflects poorly
on the Cooch…Cooch has managed
to radiate overall idiocy all by himself..
Not altogether different in fashion
to the Goddess Mahakali herself.
Micheal, on many occasions on this blog, you have judged things based on what (and who) you see an know. That limited-view perspective has been kind of like, “if it doesn’t have an effect on me, it doesn’t have an effect at all.
That’s why your statement, “I don’t know anyone that has lost their house or car or anything else for that matter even in this horrible economy,” seems so puzzling.
If you don’t know personally anyone who has suffered those fates, how can you call the economy horrible?
Michael Howdyshell,
Your ideas for how people become upwardly mobile are simplistic. There are many features of our present, inadequate system for providing health care that work against someone wanting to “take risks” and move up economically. One example I can think of immediately is that of a friend of my husband’s. He was working a fairly routine job – no real stress, good hours and benefits. He wanted to take a different job – more risk, much greater chance of advancement and compensation – just what you would admire. One major problem – he had a child with a major health issue. If he changed jobs the child’s health problems would not be covered – preexisting condition. He had to remain in that job and was not able to do what you want – take risks and work his way up the ladder. Was this laziness or being a “loser” on his part? What part of this is fair to you?
“I believe in State Centered Federalism,”
No, you believe in “I’ve got mine and to hell with you.” We’ve been through this before. Seriously, Mike, anyone who would let someone die when they could have been helped has some serious moral issues. I’d hate to hear your take on animals.
Richard,
Our profits are way down from where they should be and where they were before Mr. Obama was elected. The economy is terrible we are surviving. Like I keep saying I take my chances. I hope I’m wrong about the ACA and it does lower our cost over time. Even if it does it is still too much Federal Government intervention in our lives.
Michael
Maybe you don’t know anyone who has lost their house during this tough
time. Once again that just illustrates that you need to get out of your Republican cocoon and join the real world and widen your horizons. I haven’t counted the number of foreclosed homes that are on the market in the Roanoke MLS recently. But just looking at the daily listings, there seem to be twe or three or more almost every day. The vast majority of them are in low income neighborhoods. Clearly these are people that you do not associate with or have any empathy for. But they are also in the high price districts. Right now there are several in South Roanoke, several more in Hunting Hills, , Tweo or three in Fairway Forest, a number in Several higher end SW County neighborhoods, and a fairly high number out in the newer high priced subdivisions in Botetourt Co in the Country Club Road area, Ashley plantation, and others. I noticed one yesterday out near Buchanan that was originally purchased for $281000 five years ago. The bank just cut the price to $149900. If you don’t know anybody who has lost a house, then you don’t have a clue what is going on for the ordinary family out there. It’s time you got off the Republican talking points and woke up to reality.
FYI:
http://tinyurl.com/7agdlfc
**
House Will Vote July 11 to Repeal Health Care Law
By John Stanton
Roll Call Staff
June 28, 2012, 3:35 p.m.
Bill Clark
CQ Roll Call
House Republicans wasted no time scheduling yet another vote to repeal President Barack Obama’s health care reform law after the Supreme Court’s decision today to uphold its constitutionality.
Majority Leader Eric Cantor (Va.) announced this morning that the House would hold the vote July 11.
“There’s a lot of resolve amongst our colleagues … to stop a law that’s hurting our economy,” Speaker John Boehner said.
SNIP
**
Michael A. Howdyshell – you must live on an island where only “acceptable” people reside…Here’s where I live:
“The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
‘Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!’cries she
With silent lips.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Emma Lazarus
Yes, America – the United States of America – the land where all of our ancestors were immigrants at one time, with the exception of Native Americans…most not born with a silver spoon, some luckier than others, most striving to be better than the last generation, with the hope we can “take care of our own” but also willing to help the “little guy out” and the “less fortunate”. In what generation did the “mean spirit” of some become the antithesis of what America stood for? When did it become okay to be punitive toward the unfortunate, and willingly denigrate them? When did Americans jealously guard their “status” to the detriment of others? And when did some Americans become so insular?
Dan, especially Sandi, Art, gdad and the rest of you out of touch far left zealots. ___ You, but leave the horse you rode in on alone. The horse has more since!!
MichaelH? Medical expenses are THE single largest cause of bankrupcty in this country.
http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf
According to this study, almost half of personal bankruptcies are brought on by medical bills. You may per usual claim not to “know anyone” who’s had this issue, but that’s not really here nor there. The undeniable fact is that unpaid medical bills on the part of people without coverage not only hit us from a standpoint of higher insurance premiums to cover them, but higher everything ELSE bills due to default on their debts.
ACA is just the beginning (I hope) in fixing the medical care crisis here, but please don’t pretend it’s not indeed a crisis.
And I’m a little familiar with the SoRo environment from which you seem to draw 100% of your conclusions about everything…and things aren’t always so rosy there either, don’t kid yourself.
I’m glad to have been wrong on the ruling. Seems like the past 6 months or so I’ve been very cynical about our government. Today restores a bit of faith in our American way of life and the Rebublic.
Now if we can kick some of the obstructionist GOP to the curb in November, (Read Eric Cantor at least,) life will be better.
68. Suzie – double check your DJIA at the end of the day. Might surprise even you.
13 suns and old blue – and you as well. Thanks
Europe!! Europe!! Europe!! We finally have a health system coming in line with yours!!!! Ummmm……Eurozone crisis???
Should we do everything like Europe does just because Europe does it?? I think many of our ancestors came here to get away from Europe…..
How come the thought isn’t crossing anybody’s mind when Michael Howdyshell says that he doesn’t know anyone that has lost their homes in this bad economy, that maybe Michael and those around him know what they are talking about when it comes to dealing with the economy and their finances since apparently he and the people around him have managed to stay ahead even in a bad economy?
How come nobody is seeing that?
Well this has been fun! The right wingers have essentially had their minds blown because at last one of the Supremes pulled his head out of his ass long enough to breathsome fresh air, restoring his brain cells and leading to a proper ruling.. Maloof, LC and their cohorts managed to show their ignorance as usual. Mike Howdyshell demnstrated yet again his total lack of concern for anybody except himself and his close friends at the Shenandoah Club, RCC, and whatever other rarefied air he continues to hang out in. Kenny the Cooch went down in flames for the second time in a week and ended up making some vague threat about future action, somewhat akin to the TPers who advopcate the 2A solution to reforming the government. And last , but not least, Suzie has been all over the place foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog spouting falsehoods, lies, inconsistent statements all mixed with the usual delusions and namecalling.
And Suzie–just for the record, Seal Team 6 did not capture OBL, they killed his ass. They were able to do that because of their skills and training and because they had a President who had the guts to give the order, unlike the sorry excuse for for a CIC they had in GWB who was afraid to do it when he had him in his sights.
As to the ACA, its not perfect. It will require some fine tuning. Some of the amendments that the Republicans forced into it to get their pound of flesh will eventually have to be dropped. Adjustments will have to be made
when some things don’t woprk as well as others. An d hopefully we will eventually get what we really need, a single payer syaytem that cuts out the blood sucking obscene profits that are now exacted from us by the insurance companies, conglomerates, and pharmaceuticals. But it remains a singular accomplishment. It establishes a system for universal care that people have been fighting for for over a hundred years. And Barack Obasma
got it done. If epublicans have the best interest of the country andits citizens at heart, they will join with Democrats in a positive approach to amend and change what needs to be changed while leaving a health care syaytem that covers everybody intact. If not, they’ll just go on playing politics as usual and if they can keep the people fooled with their phony social agenda to keep themselves in power, they will continue to screw us all into the forseeable future.
#68 Wow, Oliver, that was one HUGE drop in in the Dow Jones. GIGANTIC! HUMUNGOUS! STUPENDOUS! HORRIFIC!
The DJIA plummeted 25 POINTS, Suze.
Not 25 PERCENT.
Will you learn to read, please? Earlier today you were saying SCOTUS overturned the ACA.
#129 hokies24, I also don’t personally know anybody who has lost their home in this economy — and most of my closer homeowning friends are liberals. And I’ve pretty much stayed ahead. I guess that means I know what I’m talking about. Thanks for the compliment.
@ #123 – That’s a really classy response, Bob. Although, if you’re attempting to insult someone’s intelligence, you should probably learn how to spell “sense” first.
Carry on with the rabble. It’s extremely entertaining.
Because, hokie24, the plural of anecdote is not data, for one. For two…who really cares what his personal and limited experience is – or anyone else’s for that matter? The facts are what the facts are.
I’ve never seen Australia, but I’m pretty sure it exists, my personal experience notwithstanding.
Davidin Salem, this is nothing like what people get in Europe. And the countries there that are having issues aren’t having them because of healthcare anyway.
130 Dave – Perfect!
Dave you naive goofball. You ever hear of Dr. Shakil Afridi? HE & Seal Team 6 are the main people who killed Osama Bin Laden. Hussein is throwing Dr. Shakil Afridi under the bus, the good doctor is sweltering in a Pakistani jail right now!
Now go get your shine box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
most ill-informed – you do earn that name…so wrong, so often.
HOSPITAL STOCKS JUMP AFTER HEALTH CARE RULING
WASHINGTON — “Hospital stocks rose sharply Thursday after the Supreme Court guaranteed them millions more paying customers by upholding the core of President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul.”
“Many insurance companies fell sharply after the ruling was announced. They bounced around while reporters and analysts dissected the court’s ruling, and they later recovered some of the losses.”
UnitedHealth Group, the biggest insurer, closed up half of a percentage point. It had been down as much as 7 percent after the ruling. WellPoint plunged 8 percent, Aetna and Cigna nearly 3 percent.” http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20965491/hospital-stocks-jump-after-health-care-ruling?source=rss
At closing, Dow: 12,602.3 -0.2%
What is it with you people and telling us to: “___ You”? If we talk like that to all of you wingnuts, you’d be whining and wanting the RT to ban us. Potty mouth!!
119. Michael Howdyshell – apparently I misinterpreted your previous statements on how great you are doing. You sound much more realistic in this post. However, considering the great recession and its crushing of the construction industry, I am not surprised by this new information.
Perhaps you should consider getting your political contacts to put some incentives to work for some infrastructure building. With your contacts your company should land some large contracts.
Just a little reminder about da Suze’s prediction and its relationship to reality:
17.Overturned 5-4.
The three embarrassments to womanhood, the clueless Ruth Buzzi Ginsburg, the “brilliant” history major (how can you tell?) and the softball player with the stubby fingers, plus Breyer will oppose.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2000/03/does_a_short_index_finger_make_you_gay.html
Comment by Suzie — June 16, 2012 @ 7:05 am
What really happened was the three poltical pigs, Alito, Scalia, and Thomas voted as could be expected to support the folks who are providing them with the big fees and the free trips to the Right wing bashes put on by the billinnaires. And Kennedy and Roberts got togetehr behind the scdnes and made a deal so that the law would be upheld but Kennedy could hang on to his conservative credentials, even though he really believed the law should be upheld too.
@hokie 24
My family is doing very well even in this economy and are “staying even” and even prospering. Yes, we have made prudent decisions and are not careless with our money. We are able to afford everything we need and most everything we want. We have been blessed. Not everyone has the education, family support, good health, etc… that have made our good fortune possible.
Should I turn my back on my fellow Americans just because “I’ve got mine”?
I consider it part of my duty to my Maker to give back – whether it be in charitable donations or —-(heaven forbid) higher taxes. Even if those taxes go to provide health care for those “losers”. As an achiever I’m okay knowing that in the long run, my costs will go down (per the CBO).
Hey Bob the embarrassment, I believe you wanted to storm off with: ‘The horse has more sense!’. I could be wrong. If you had a horse, he might well have only “since”. Far be it from me to belabor your misery.
hokie24 #129, I believe Richard Beason did address your point in #114. If the only loss or problems Michael Howdyshell is aware of are the stories he hears here or in the news, he and his friends have nothing to complain about. Nothing. “Profits being down” is hardly a lament in an economy in crisis.
The truth is, and this is important to hammer home folks, there is only one reason, ONE, and only one reason, that the economy will improve “when Romney is elected”. They might not have the “since” to realize it, but they are only telling on themselves.
I’d like to lean on my honorable mention status, having predicted the IM would be upheld 5-4, strike a blow for civility, and say that the decision today was win/win: +1 for universal healthcare, +1 for liberty.
Cuccinelli wasn’t wrong insofar as the Commerce Clause is concerned(whether he’s wrong on other matters is something else entirely). We may not like it, but 5-4, Roberts plus the dissenters, a new limitation on the power of Congress to legistlate under the Commerce Clause was articulated today as part of the Court’s holding.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/an-important-new-limit-on-the-commerce-clause/
It’s really a brilliant decision, in 193 pages managing to bolster the credibility and power of all three branches, mostly leaving the Constitution alone. Thanks for the contest, Dan. Fun stuff to ponder.
In sum and to address the new parameters set forth: I’m reacting with glee; and (1) good for health care and insurance, (2) slight positive for Republicans in Congressional elections come November, (3) not relevant to November Presidential elections (only swing states matter/swing state voters largely insured regardless/economy improving = Obama reelection – economy in tank = hello, Romney), and (4) positive for Cuccinelli (even if it was a blind squirrel finding nut sort of thing). Cheers, and Happy Fourth, everyone.
Dan:
“Will you [Suzie] learn to read, please? Earlier today you were saying SCOTUS overturned the ACA.”
Dan, reading is for someone who really wants to understand or comprehend something and doesn’t just assume that by skimming the material, it will jump to his/her preconceived notion.
She does that often on a number of different things.
I noticed the three largest health care providers on the Exchange were up by as much as 10%. The news from SCOTUS gave Butch the vapors.
Romney will beat the little boy with the big ears at every stop from now on on how he LIED about the huge tax cut on the middle class. Constitutional attorney Jay Sekulow who has studied the bill from top to bottom says by 2016, someone making $30,000 will have to pay around $2000 in taxes for the fiasco. That figure is right around what the high-end libs in this blog make. If for some reason this goes through, it will be a pleasure to know you clowns paid through the nose.
Well this has been fun! The right wingers have essentially had their minds blown because at last one of the Supremes pulled his head out of his ass long enough to breathsome fresh air, restoring his brain cells and leading to a proper ruling.
You don’t care. You old fossils will be dead when if and when this thing kicks in, and won’t have to pay. It’s always “me, myself, and mine” for you liberals. That’s your motto:
Europe!! Europe!! Europe!! We finally have a health system coming in line with yours!!!! Ummmm……Eurozone crisis???
Exactly, David in Salem. These leftwingers want us to be just like the European countries which are now in the state of collapse in large part due to their failed socialized health care. OK, so let’s imitate the failures. Talk about stupid people.
DJIA dropped like a rock after the announcement down 130 pts. Then rebounded after Romney’s very strong remarks.
He might be out of the hunt..
But at least he let the dogs have a good
whiff of the erratic trail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xj-loQTvso
So in the end, Roberts wanted to be liked by DC’s ruling class. I’ve seen it happen to a number of people. Folks start out one way, then get corrupted by the cocktail parties, wanting to be accepted, invited to the right parties, etc. Then they change. I see it the same phenomenon happen in here. To date, it’s happened to Dave H, John W, JMWhite. They start out saying conservative things, then catch a little heat from the blog’s extremists, then decide they don’t like that and want to be liked instead. So they turn kook left. Ron went from middle of the road to off-the-deep-end left. They all want to find favor with Dan and the libs. They really like those Posts of the Day. I guess that’s their “cocktail party”.
That’s why I really admire strong men like Thomas, Scalia, and Alito. I’m sure they’re banished for the mainstream social scene in DC; Alito and Scalia because they’re conservative; Thomas because he’s black and conservative. The strongest people say and do the right thing because it’s right, and don’t care what the nuts think.
In defense of Suzie:
http://tinyurl.com/6qcq5e5
**
Get it first or get it right? Media struggles to get healthcare story out accurately
By Ernie Suggs
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
In the “who won?” game, chalk up the media as one of Thursday’s losers. Some major outlets, eager to be the first to break the news of the Supreme Court’s health care ruling, flat out got it wrong, setting the social media world on fire.
Most significantly, CNN and Fox News reported on air and on their websites that the court had struck down key provisions in the ACA as unconstitutional. As “SUPREME CT. KILLS INDIVIDUAL MANDATE” flashed on the screen, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer called it a “historic moment.” A breathless John King said it was a “dramatic blow to the policy and to the president,” while the news agency’s Website read, “Mandate struck down.”
Fox News made the same mistake, initially reporting that the mandate had been axed before correcting that assessment minutes later. And The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, in its first tweet of the day, repeated the error: “Breaking: Supreme Court strikes down mandate that requires individuals to buy insurance.”
SNIP
“In this particular case, there was no excuse. This wasn’t breaking news, we knew it was happening,” said Kelly McBride, a senior faculty member at the Poynter Institute, a non-profit journalism school in St. Petersburg, Fla.
SNIP
**
Fortunately there is still one federal body that still respects the Constitution and the rule of law; the House of Representatives. They rightly found Holder in contempt of Congress.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/attorney-general-eric-holder-found-in-contempt-of-congress-1.3811532
Excellent news and great job, HR!!
And now for more drama:
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/28/was-scalias-dissent-originally-a-majority-opinion/
**
Was the Dissent Originally a Majority Opinion?
David Bernstein • June 28, 2012 11:23 am
The four-Justice dissent, at least on first quick perusal, reads like it was originally written as a majority opinion, [something Larry Solum also noticed] (for example, he refers to Justice Ginsburg’s opinion as “The dissent”) [update: Ginsburg did in fact technically dissent on the Commerce Clause issue, but I think it’s unusual to refer to an opinion written by the winning side as “the dissent.”
SNIP
**
—–
http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/304300/majority-opinion-turned-dissent-ed-whelan
Majority-Opinion-Turned-Dissent?
By Ed Whelan
June 28, 2012 12:43 P.M.
The joint dissent issued by Justices Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito certainly reads as though it were written to be the majority opinion. Among other things, the joint dissent’s discussion of the taxing power doesn’t respond to the Chief Justice’s opinion (indeed, I think it never even cites it). Rather, it addresses only the government’s argument. By contrast, the Chief’s opinion repeatedly takes issue with the joint dissent. This strongly suggests to me that the joint dissent was written first, as the proposed majority opinion, but failed to garner the fifth vote from the Chief.
The fact that the joint dissent (see slip op. at 13-16) repeatedly refers to Justice Ginsburg’s views on the Commerce Clause issue as the “dissent” reinforces my impression—all the more so as the dissenters don’t undertake to point out that their views combined with the Chief Justice’s establish a majority on the Commerce Clause point.
SNIP
**
—–
http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/304341/re-majority-opinion-turned-dissent-ed-whelan
**
Re: Majority-Opinion-Turned-Dissent?
By Ed Whelan
June 28, 2012 4:16 P.M
SNIP
**
—–
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/28/more-hints-that-roberts-switched-his-vote/
**
More Hints that Roberts Switched his Vote
David Bernstein • June 28, 2012 6:10 pm
Reader Stuart Buck provides more detail as to why the dissent reads like a majority opinion:
SNIP
**
Good stuff!
Chief Justice Roberts upheld the integrity of The Supreme Court today. His decision was rational and nonpartisan.
I believe this is a sign that a number of conservatives are disgusted with the RW witch hunts, their distortion of facts, their divisiveness, their no compromise stance that is tearing this great nation apart. I know I am sick of the RW lies and hate.
God bless Justice Roberts for his courage and integrity.
This does not auger well for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cucciinelli
Is he going to unclog a drain?
Toss in another ‘nickle’.
LOL.
BTW, it appears that old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) and her President have something in common.
Whoodathunk!
http://tinyurl.com/87f34st
.
.
Suzie:
“The three mindless women on the court are an absolute disgrace.”
Save for the word “mindless”, I totally agree with this.
Recently I shared some information regarding Indiana State Treasurer Richard Mourdock, Republican U.S. Senate nominee. Below is a link to Rep. Mike Pence, currently in Congress, who is the Republican nominee for Governor of Indiana this fall. Today, he compared the Supreme Court decision on the Affordable Care Act to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. These are the idiots the Republicans are foisting off on the people of Indiana. It almost makes me ashamed to call myself a Hoosier.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120628/NEWS05/120628050/Mike-Pence-apologizes-comparing-health-care-decision-Sept-11-terrorist-attacks?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com
Michael,
As you know from our previous conversation, we are both essentially in the same industry, in that when things need to get built we both make money.
I find it interesting that you blame one man for your company’s inability to maintain profits. The company I’ve been working for has grown about 50% since President Obama took over, and there’s no sign of stopping.
I’d be more inclined to believe you are a victim of circumstance, location, or poor foresight, rather than a victim of some sort of evil vindictive, southern virginia business destroyer. A good corporation knows how to weather the storm. A good corporation knows how to make money even in the downtime. (Take a look at your right wing overlords the banking industry!)
Don’t you think its time to stop sitting in the dugout pouting that you don’t get to bat clean-up, and instead get out at the plate, bat 7th and hit a damn home run? Come on now. You can do it!
“The insurance industry was in favor of the ACA – why? More customers.”
Really Shillary? The insurance industry favored it because they will be making more money, not because they will be covering more customers. Have you even been listening to your own party’s arguments about what evil profiteers insurance compnaies are? According to Dems, private insurance companies are one of, if not the biggest reason the ACA was needed. Now the fact that the evil industry Democrats have spent years disparaging is in favor of the ACA helps prove it is a good thing? Interesting logic there.
As for proof of premium increases, logic dictates that it is not possible to prove something that hasn’t happened yet. The best we can do is try to predict the effects it will have. That said, CBO estimates say this will increase the deficit by a trillion dollars over the next ten years.
http://cbo.gov/publication/43080
Also, logic as well as the Obama administration’s own estimates indicate that premiums for those in individual markets will increase several percentage points. Some estimates put it as high as 30%. For small and large groups the increases are predicted to be smaller, in the 1-2% range. I hope you are right that premiums will drop. I also hope you are right that this is a good thingfor the country and the economy. However, at some point it will have to be paid for. Either way, the one thing I am sure you are right about is that we will soon see.
Sorry Rosemary Hodges, I guess the movie title crept into my subconcious while I was typing. It was the Stolen Valor Act, which made it a crime to falsely claim you had served in the military or had received medals, commendations, etc. The Court held that lying about military service is protected speech under the first amendment. Sadly no one seems shocked or concerned that we now have a Court ruling that people have a right to lie. For me personally, it really goes against the grain to say you have a Constitutional right to lie. Speaks terribly highly of our society. “We’re Americans. Why on earth would you expect us to be honorable or honest. Afterall, lying is one of the rights guaranteed by our Constitution.”
Sandi, you said the ruling didn’t say it was a right, just that it wasn’t a crime, but sadly, you are wrong again. The ruling very expressly said that it was speech protected by the First Amendment. That makes it a right. Sorry guys. Lying is wrong and you are just not going to convince me that people should have a right to intentionally do the wrong thing.
The more thought I give it, the more convinced I become. This ruling is more disturbing than the ACA ruling. The ACA has some good things and some bad things, but I have trouble finding anything good in telling people its okay to lie.
@hokie24…
I can tell you why..
Its because we dont believe Howdy
lives in a cave and never comes out.
Of course I could be wrong.
my God you people are stupid. if you think this is a win for this country, you are even more ignorant than I previously thought.
1.STRUCK DOWN. Praise God!!!
Comment by Suzie — June 28, 2012 @ 10:09 am
Suzies ego ..STRUCK DOWN…Praise God he left town.
Kristen et al
I hope I’m wrong and the ACA is the best thing that ever happened to this country. I do believe Mr. Obama will be reelected, and my vision for America is changing. I’m very sad for my children.
Just curious, Since over 20 million people are unemployed and more uninsured this law forces you to buy Health Insurance. How are the unemployed going to buy Health Insurance with no job? Unemployment is on the rise again and will continue to rise. How exactly does Obamacare bring down healthcare costs? How does it help the poor who can’t afford Health Insurance now?
Gee, where to start. I read every comment up till Dan 6-28-12@5:17pm.
There was misinformation initially but that’s another gripe all together. Dan is in the business and still isn’t aware of that fact. That does relate to reading before taking action. In that same vein is the notion that NONE of us have read the entire ACA. One reader got further than I did by mentioning 500 pages looked at and enough disgust at that point to not bother with the next several thousand. I’ll let the crack research team compare just the volume of text for ACA to whatever is law in MA.
I have plenty to say in rebuttal of ideology on both sides but I’ll stick to the ruling. All I see is a new can to kick around. I recently paid my RE tax, which feels like a penalty too. Oddly enough, there is also separate item called penalty for late payment and another for non payment. Roberts didn’t switch teams and it was easy to find followers with this clever dodge. At least it made some statement about how Commerce is looked at.
Nothing changed with this ruling except the conversation. I have doubts that the unread monster bill can survive long enough to be implemented. Another private/public nightmare designed to fail. The insurers have won, both premiums and healthcare costs will continue to rise. The public will moan about enforcement and why we can’t get blood from turnips. Time to legalize drugs to make room for insurance scofflaws in prison.
Mike Howdyshell. As you know, our industry is pretty much required to carry workers compensation insurance across the board. The fact that we all have to makes it cheap. I have never seen you rail against this requirement (I think it is a VOSH requirement, but I may be wrong on that) We have had only very minor injuries in the last six years and thusly our rates remain low. The fact that we all have to have it levels the playing field for all of us.
Bob, you’re acting like you think we believe that Barack Obama wrung OBL’s neck with his bare hands, dude. That’s BS. The president gave the order, man. GWB never had the cajones to do that.
Wow, Bob rally lost it today. Racially tinged comments and bad spelling while trying to insult the intelligence of others.
“So in the end, Roberts wanted to be liked by DC’s ruling class.”
What an outrageously dumb thing to say. An appointment (w/confirmation) to the Supreme Court is a free pass to hold onto the values you hold dear for the rest of your life. As Saclia and Thomas know, it’s a license to say F— You! to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Unless you commit a crime of moral turpitude, NOBODY can touch you.
To think that a staunch member of the Federalist Society would trade that for some invites to cocktail parties is as stupid as one can get.
Just more sour grapes from the mangy cur who can’t reach them.
Bob:
“The horse has more since!!”
Actually Sandi, I find “since” used in place of “sense” much more offensive than “___ You.”
First you want the word censored…
Then you want the sentiment censored…
I guess any dissenting opinion is next on your chopping block, eh?
#148 That’s was even weaker than your usual, Oliver. You even said health care stocks were taking a beating when in fact they skyrocketed. You really haven’t a clue.
#150 God are you desperate, Oliver.
“As Saclia and Thomas know, it’s a license to say F— You! to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Unless you commit a crime of moral turpitude, NOBODY can touch you.”
And F- You to the Constitution he (Roberts) said. Good thing he had a license.
This is a socialist country now. Guess we may just have to accept it.
From SCOTUSblog, The Roberts Court is Born.
#137 Bob,
“Now go get your shine box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Comment by Bob — June 28, 2012 @ 5:28 pm
This is the best you can do? A quote from a 22 year old movie? Are you just not trying hard on purpose or are you really that mentally stunted?
Do you have an older sister named pammala? I ask this because you two share the same distain for the English language, only she makes a little more sense than you do. Apparently she let all of the water out of the gene pool before you were allowed to wade in past your ankles.
“Now go get your shine box”…Christ, what a dope. Bob is like all three stooges rolled up into one convenient piñata so I only have to verbally slap around one fool at a time.
Suzie:
“Folks start out one way, then get corrupted by the cocktail parties, wanting to be accepted, invited to the right parties, etc. Then they change….it’s happened to Dave H, John W, JMWhite. They start out saying conservative things, then catch a little heat from the blog’s extremists, then decide they don’t like that and want to be liked instead. So they turn kook left.”
Hey Suzie, I get crapped on regularly by the flaming leftist here and don’t give two whoops whether they accept what I believe or not. You’re such a moron. I first came over a gun thread and made pro gun-rights statements, so you assumed I am a toe-the-line conservate, but then when you found out that I have a brain and need reason and logic to believe things, unlike you, you wrote me off. To which I couldn’t possibly care less.
“They all want to find favor with Dan and the libs. They really like those Posts of the Day.”
I don’t cower to anyone and my only Post of the Day backs that up.
Geez, I actually agree with some of what Suzie says on this thread and she pokes with a bamboo stick. Poor attention ho Suzie feels neglected.
pammala:
164.”my God you people are stupid. if you think this is a win for this country, you are even more ignorant than I previously thought.”
I say pammala has 20 teeth. Who wants an over/under bet? Steve C, you in?
@ Pammala..
164.my God you people are stupid. if you think this is a win for this country, you are even more ignorant than I previously thought.
Comment by pammala — June 28, 2012 @ 10:24 pm
…Maybe we are Pammala…but you are in my eyes the same now as before
this comment.. all around a win/lose for you.
I think that it was a good decision and went down pretty much as I expected it would. As with nearly all things government, though, it remains to be seen what the true costs will be.
I’ll remain cautiously optimistic for now that we won’t end up getting boned by this in the end.
“GWB never had cajones to do that.” – I just shot tea out of my nose. Thanks, Dan.
States Rights and the Toad…
Althouse blog 2005.
Kinda insightful..
but still a win for us toads.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/08/about-roberts-states-rights-and-that.html
“Will you [Suzie] learn to read, please? Earlier today you were saying SCOTUS overturned the ACA.”
Dan, reading is for someone who really wants to understand or comprehend something and doesn’t just assume that by skimming the material, it will jump to his/her preconceived notion.
It was your liberal media I got it from, John W. But this comment earned you favor among Dan and the blog’s nuts, so kudos for that.
I am required to have automobile insurance…or pay a fee to DMV,,,is my insurance a tax….no….is my homeowners insurance a tax….no….health insurance is a necessity….now it can be affordable for everyone…Cuccinelli is the same bum he has always been
The Roberts Court is Born
Had he gone the other way, you kooks would be hanging the “four white men and an Uncle Tom” who “took away our health care” in effigy. Now Roberts is the venerable Earl Warren, But you’re right in one respect. This is what Roberts wanted. Glowing praise from the liberal DC cocktail circuit. A court named after him.
This was a disastrous decision for liberty. You people now realize the government can demand ANY behavior it wants and tax those who don’t follow it? ANYTHING. Think of the possibilities now: Not a union member? Better join or we’ll tax your ass. Don’t like broccoli? Tough sh*t. You buy it or get taxed. Don’t contribute to the Democrat Party? Oops. Another tax. Even Justice Kennedy, the guy we were all worried about, said the entire mess should have been struck down. The ruling was so obvious, it really makes you wonder about Robert’s motivations.
What an outrageously dumb thing to say.
This is exactly two posts after Dan made the outrageously dumb statement that Bush didn’t have the cojones to get OBL.
Dave you naive goofball. You ever hear of Dr. Shakil Afridi? HE & Seal Team 6 are the main people who killed Osama Bin Laden. Hussein is throwing Dr. Shakil Afridi under the bus, the good doctor is sweltering in a Pakistani jail right now!
While I have a little fun posting, again with minimal effort or checking my grammar or spelling, any of you gutless liberals care to comment on Dr Afridi?
May The TAX be with you!
“You people now realize the government can demand ANY behavior it wants and tax those who don’t follow it?”
Suze, are you saying the government could demand you shut up, and tax all your posts if you don’t?
Hell, maybe I’ll slap a troll tax on you right here and donate the proceeds to Planned Parenthood.
“Hell, maybe I’ll slap a troll tax on you right here and donate the proceeds to Planned Parenthood.”
Best morning laugh all year! Thanks Dan!
Robert’s = Roberts’. Gotta ward off the typo nannies
I am required to have automobile insurance…or pay a fee to DMV,,,is my insurance a tax….no….is my homeowners insurance a tax….no….health insurance is a necessity….now it can be affordable for everyone…Cuccinelli is the same bum he has always been.
But you aren’t required to own a car or drive. Nor are you required to own a home. But you are REQUIRED by pay this tax or buy what will later become government-run health care. No way around it.
IT’S ……. A ……. TAX.
Pat Benatar is on FOX and FRIENDS. Gotta Go!
166.Kristen et al
I hope I’m wrong and the ACA is the best thing that ever happened to this country. I do believe Mr. Obama will be reelected, and my vision for America is changing. I’m very sad for my children.
Comment by Michael A. Howdyshell — June 28, 2012 @ 10:34 pm
Michael,
You and your children will be just fine. My father, toward the end of his short life (in the late 1960s), commented to me that he was sorry that he and his generation had failed in their duty to their children. He was wrong. My father taught me many things, including the value of hard work, resillience, persistance and optimism. The fact that I went from being a poor farm kid to a college president (twice) is an example of his hard work.
Our nation has gone through very difficult times over the course of its history. We’ve survived those times and we will survived these times.
#176 And the government is going to use Fast and Furious to come after your guns.
Roberts is a conservative republican appointed by a conservative republican – and now! conservative republicans are calling him a turncoat for following Constitutional law. It is always fun to watch the republicans savage their own…
Shrilliary, the conservatives did the same thing to Warren Burger.
pammalla, you calling anyone stupid is just funny.
MichaelH, give your kids the right tools and trust that they’ll be fine.
I was reading in the RT the other day about a couple that was moving to Uganda to do humanitarian work. Just a thought.
You’re correct – when the Brown v Board of Education decision came down that desegregated public schools, the right lost their collective minds…
Progress? We don’t need no stinkin’ progress…yep, that’s them…
#193 Nobody’s REQUIRED to get health care but show me the folks who never do whether or not they can pay for it.
Doltish troll.
For anyone interested in playing with Bob @89 “care to comment on Dr Afridi?” here is the best link to the background of the story.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/24/us-pakistan-afridi-idUSBRE85N0OY20120624
From Suzie
“It was your liberal media I got it from, John W. But this comment earned you favor among Dan and the blog’s nuts, so kudos for that.”
I’m confused Suzie. The two media outlets that incorrectly reported the ruling were CNN and Faux News – neither is what I would term “liberal media”. If you were watching MSNBC and listening to NPR, as I was, you would have gotten the correct information.
You know, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the only ones who’d be “taxed” the ones who gamble with their lives and don’t have health insurance? You know, the ones who unnecessarily burden everyone because they cost hospitals money when they need medical procedures but nobody pays for them…
Isn’t that what right wingers have been railing against forever? No free Handouts?
Just say what this really is. Right Wingers want businesses to have the right to not provide traditional benefits to their employees. They want Businesses to be able to have slaves. Because that’s all they really are, slave owners. Only this time it’s not just Africans off the boat. It’s everyone who was not fortunate enough to have been born with millions of dollars in their parents pockets.
CNN took the hit for screwing up…Fox, typically, blamed someone else.
Bush didn’t get Bin Laden; therefore, he did not have the cajones. Screwzie keeps saying it was Bush’s military and intelligence that Obama is taking credit for. Why was Bush too stupid to utilize those resources himself?
I think it’s funny when Screwzie forgets to turn off her italics font. It’s also funny that I’ve called her out on her many typos so often, that now she corrects them before I do. She’s as easy to manipulate as shooting fish in a barrel.
@gdad #133″
“129 hokies24, I also don’t personally know anybody who has lost their home in this economy — and most of my closer homeowning friends are liberals. And I’ve pretty much stayed ahead. I guess that means I know what I’m talking about. Thanks for the compliment.”
Well, if that’s how you are choosing to take my comment, as a compliment, then that means that you agree with my comment.
@BlacksburgSuz #142
“@hokie 24
My family is doing very well even in this economy and are “staying even” and even prospering. Yes, we have made prudent decisions and are not careless with our money. We are able to afford everything we need and most everything we want. We have been blessed. Not everyone has the education, family support, good health, etc… that have made our good fortune possible.
Should I turn my back on my fellow Americans just because “I’ve got mine”?”
I’m not sure where your question comes from. You can do whatever floats your boat I guess. I am positive that I didn’t say anything about not helping others.
@Sandi #143
“hokie24 #129, I believe Richard Beason did address your point in #114. If the only loss or problems Michael Howdyshell is aware of are the stories he hears here or in the news, he and his friends have nothing to complain about. Nothing. “Profits being down” is hardly a lament in an economy in crisis.”
No, Richard did not address anything remotely close to my point. The point that I was trying make was to ask why everyone was jumping on Howdyshell’s case just because he’s not shy to let others know that he’s not losing his possessions in a bad economy. Just like many others on this blog have pointed out, just because the economy hasn’t personally taken Howdyshell’s home and well-being doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have the ability to say that the economy is bad. For example, as Kristen said, “I’ve never seen Australia, but I’m pretty sure it exists…”
Re: “They start out saying conservative things….”
———-
See my earlier comments on false consensus effect [ http://tinyurl.com/73zpuml ]
It was Old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) jumping at an assumption about individuals as well as endogenously estimating the prevalence of attributes in a population.
As to why there might be a clue @:
http://tinyurl.com/4m2eoax
**
A.D.A.M. Medical Encyclopedia.
Borderline personality disorder
Borderline personality disorder is a condition in which people have long-term patterns of unstable or turbulent emotions, such as feelings about themselves and others.
These inner experiences often cause them to take impulsive actions and have chaotic relationships.
SNIP
People with BPD also tend to see things in terms of extremes, such as either all good or all bad. Their views of other people may change quickly. A person who is looked up to one day may be looked down on the next day. These suddenly shifting feelings often lead to intense and unstable relationships.
SNIP
**
—–
FWIIW, folk can confuse my libertarian positions with what they think of a “conservative” position.
Agreeing, or disagreeing, with a simple statement on a single issue may have its roots in very different values. People can agree on a simple statement for vastly different ideological reasons, or for totally non-ideological reasons.
For example folk might give the same negative answer to the question, “Do you eat bacon?” — for quite different reasons:
Some just might not like the taste.
Some might be worried about personal health issues — e.g., any red meat, fat intake, etc.
Some might be vegetarian for religious reasons.
Some might be Vegetarian for ethical reasons outside of organized religion, e.g., issues w/ ecological impact of meat production, PETA, bambi syndrome etc.
Some might be omnivores but avoids pork because of organized religion dictates. And as we know folks in this group are often at war, for reasons that have little to do with bacon. [Think middle-east.]
Etc
I happily acknowledge that I:
am a strong INTJ Myers-Briggs personality type (see: http://tinyurl.com/hayhe and/or http://tinyurl.com/c9eaj) — hence my independence of mind and my ruthless application of the criterion “Does it work?”;
am a strong social libertarian (note the small the “l”] (a.k.a, am very anti-authoritarian);
am very near the center on right-to-left economic issues;
am a rather traditional Anglican Christian, w/ a great tolerance for / acceptance of others’ faiths or the lack there of;
am a strong supporter of all Constitutional rights;
am a supporter of federalism, separation-of-powers, representative-democracy, etc.
am a believer in self-determination (at the world-level)
etc.
IOW, I am generally a live-and-let-live type guy!
John Wilburn, you can say that you “don’t cower to anyone” but you darn sure whine a lot. “____ You!” is such a childish, immature, emotional, comeback. I can see why you favor it, but in the real world, the business world, the civil world and the intelligent writing world, it is considered common and vulgar. Your support does not weaken that perception. Now, don’t misunderstand me, it is literally my favorite word in the entire lexicon of curse words and I still roll up the YouTube video of how many ways you can use this important word when I want to laugh, and be sure I have used it in every possible way, but in a conversation blog and written communication, it remains, common and vulgar. I do not want it “censored” I just like pointing to the losers who resort to it for what they are. It is just a coincidence that happens to be you and Bob.
Chuck, again, I say you are wrong. The ruling didn’t say it was right to lie, it said it was free speech and that lying about your valor was not a crime. I personally disagree with them and think that it should be, but I do not think they were saying it is fine to lie. You can still be fired for “free speech” in this nation and certainly in this state.
They have said that the Phelps cretin’s ravings was “free speech” too and I disagreed with that as well. I at least am consistent.
I agree completely that “Lying is wrong”. I also believe hate filled, inciting speech is wrong. I put my name on everything I say because I believe we are ALL accountable for what we say, how we say it, to whom we say it, how we mean it and how it is perceived. No argument from me that people should not be able to lie with any kind of impunity or protection except in very rare cases or exigent circumstances.
I still disagree hokie24, people who assure me how awful this president is, how awful his policies are, how awful the economy is, how awful it is for business, how awful it is for business owners, cannot then declare that they are fine and in fact know of no one touched by that same awfulness. It does not compute.
I do not want Michael to experience a loss due to the awfulness he feels is so oppressing, I want him to explain how so many people (as I assume he knows many people) are doing so well if times are so awful. If things were as bad as he, Suzie, John Wilburn et al insist, how are they doing so well? If your business needs to hire but you are holding back deliberately how is business bad? If you are still doing well, 4 years into a terrible recession, how awful can it be? The truth is that it is NOT awful for the owners, investors, managers and their families. Their whining is for bitter political partisan reasons only. It is the rest of us, who were and remain, on the other side of that abyss who are feeling the effects.
@Sandi –
“I still disagree hokie24, people who assure me how awful this president is, how awful his policies are, how awful the economy is, how awful it is for business, how awful it is for business owners, cannot then declare that they are fine and in fact know of no one touched by that same awfulness. It does not compute.”
I see your point, and normally I’d be on-board with the mindset that says not to complain if you don’t have anything personally to complain about. But still, a lack of personal experience with something doesn’t mean that it doens’t exist. Being personally uneffected, or less effected than others by the economy doesn’t mean that Howdyshell can’t call the economy bad. Just because his experience with the state of the economy isn’t as bad as others doesn’t mean he can’t call it as bad as it really is.
“White House claims ObamaCare fine a ‘penalty,’ despite court calling it a ‘tax’”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/29/white-house-claims-obamacare-fine-penalty-despite-court-calling-it-tax/#ixzz1zDXrZOlA
yeah sure liar scumbag marxist bastard
Outstanding read:
http://tinyurl.com/7hakne3
**
Do the Court’s Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clause Rulings in the Individual Mandate Case Matter?
Ilya Somin • June 29, 2012 2:44 pm
As I pointed out yesterday, five justices, including Chief Justice Roberts, accepted all the plaintiffs’ major arguments against the individual mandate with respect to the Commerce and Necessary and Proper Clauses. But how much does that conclusion actually matter? My tentative view is that it will have little immediate effect, but may well be significant in the future.
One possible reason to dismiss the importance of the Court’s treatment of these issues is that it might have been mere dictum. After all, the Court upheld the mandate based on the Tax Clause, so the other two issues were not essential to the outcome. However, as co-blogger Jonathan Adler points out, Chief Justice Roberts’ controlling opinion explicitly holds that this analysis was essential to the outcome:
[T]hese analyses form an essential predicate to his ultimate conclusion that the mandate could be upheld as a tax. As the entire Court accepts, the most natural reading of the minimum coverage provision is as an economic mandate adopted pursuant to the Commerce Clause. It is only after rejecting the possibility that the mandate could be justified in this manner that the Chief returns to the text to see if it is susceptible to an alternative construction. Thus, the only reason the Chief Justice even considers whether the mandate could be considered a tax, the statutory text notwithstanding, is because of his prior conclusion on the Commerce and Necessary and Proper Clauses. Thus this decision provides five firm votes for meaningful limits on the most expansive of Congress’ powers.
SNIP
**
So what do you think? Will the findings be significant in the future?
#212 Said the blog’s illiterate turd.
#212 pamadoodle -I suggest you stop watching Faux-foxNews – you’ll improve your vocabulary 100 fold
Small minds small thoughts.
#1 Just looked back at this one:
STRUCK DOWN. Praise God!!! suzie
Oliver really doesn’t do too well with predictions, does he?
“This does not auger well for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli’s acumen regarding what is constitutional and what is not.”
“By far the biggest loss came today, when the Supreme Court upheld the individual mandate 5-4, after Cuccinelli had confidently swaggered that the mandate was unconstitutional.”
The Supreme Court did in fact agree that the commerce clause in the Constitution does not give Congress the right to force an individual to purchase a product such as health insurance…., which, if I remember correctly, was a point that was heavily debated on this blog, with the supporters of the the new health care law taking the (apparently losing) position that the individual mandate did NOT violate the commerce clause.
On that point, the AG’s position was validated. I’m no big fan of Cuccinelli, but you can’t claim he was completely wrong. Not on that point.
The only reason the individual mandate was ultimately upheld by the SCOTUS is because they decided it could be classified as a tax….which, as others have pointed out, Obama vehemently argued that it was NOT. There is little doubt that Obama’s political opponents are going to pounce on that and use it against him.
The final ruling may have been to uphold the individual mandate, but even in upholding it, the SCOTUS may have given the GOP the political ammunition they need to get the law overturned (labeling it a tax).
Also remember that smart Americans know we must create an economic recovery that is not merely a restoration of the most recent bubble economy but an economy that is fundamentally more sound. That might mean fewer “easy money” opportunities in some existing sectors, as we restore meaningful standards of practice and saner business models, but it will also mean many new opportunities for profit, both from new types of businesses, and improved models in existing sectors like healthcare, energy, finance and real estate. In those four sectors especially, Americans who only want to restore their abilty to repeat the same disfuntionalities of the past several decades are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Typo: “functionalities”… I guess funtionalities are fun, but typos can be both dysfunctional and dysfuntional.
“marxist bastard” In what language would you like us to speak so you can understand this President has not or has ever been a Marxist.
This shows listening to fixed network can rots one brain.
pammmalalala@#212
Wow! The pure raw intelligence and amazing debating points that shine through in your posts are wondrous to behold! Next to you, Suzie with her 85 IQ is a freakin’ genius!
Suzie:
“It was your liberal media I got it from, John W. But this comment earned you favor among Dan and the blog’s nuts, so kudos for that.”
You mean like the Cuccinelli Compass newsletter I subscribe to that I posted on the blog?
Sandi:
“If things were as bad as he, Suzie, John Wilburn et al insist, how are they doing so well?”
Working twice as hard for half as much. That’s how.
Shrillary likes Maddow’s carpet. Munch, Munch. Ok Shrillary. Without lying like a typical democrat, tell me the top 3 shows I should get my news from. You can admit if your news source is KOS or MoveOn. C’Mon mouth, educate us!
Top 3…….. GO!
The link below is an interesting read.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/u-s-will-be-stronger-healthier-because-of-courts-ruling/
Bob, although you asked Hillary about which news shows she recommends, I’m going to weigh in. I’ll presume that you don’t limit yourself to commercial broadcast sources, given their constraints of time, format, and commercial pressures. Numerous print sources are also important; just ask Sarah Palin, who claims to read “all of ‘em”!
But within broadcast parameters, one should definitely try to be a frequent consumer of The News Hour (tv, weeknights, formerly the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour), The BBC World News (on tv at 12:30 a.m., on radio available overnight every night until 9a.m.), and, for both public policy and cultural discussions, the Charlie Rose tv show (11:30 pm M-F), the Diane Rehm radio show (weekdays 10a.m. and 10p.m.), and the radio show “Fresh Air” (weekdays at noon and 6:30p.m.).
Other important tv shows include This Week in Richmond with David Bailey, Frontline, 60 Minutes, the Tavis Smiley show, Tony Brown’s Journal, Virginia Currents, and Virginia Farming. A radio show on religious topics that is very rewarding is Interfaith Voices with host Maureen Fiedler (Sundays at 1p.m.). Sparingly spice these with some of the CNN, Fox, MSNBC shows, and mix in the news magazines and morning shows on ABC, CBS, and NBC as desired. The local television news shows are efficient sources for local features, weather and sports, but too often simply appropriate the reporting of print media like the Roanoke Times and the Business Journal. And don’t neglect The Daily Show and The Colbert Report for honest satire that is often socially relevant.
Everyone should avoid sources that fill dead air with hot air, because climate change is real and getting worse!!!
Thank you for being honest Warren, the liberals who aren’t are the ones that piss me off.
I quit the far left Roanoke Times after years of subscribing partly due to our wonderful host. I can read it via a neighbor, Famous A’s or just on line. WSJ a couple of times a week, and a good many of FOX News shows. I can get a balance off of the censor happy folks at HuffPo, but I will pass on Network, especially NBC, and especially Stewart or Colbert. Again, thank you for being honest.
Correction, Bob. You didn’t QUIT The Roanoke Times. You quit PAYING for it — you still read it. And then you have the gall to brag about your freeloading, even as you bitch mightily about freeloaders right here.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Bob.
Bob, you speak like a hate filled cretin and I am so happy not to be a person you “like” or agree with. Your post #223 was crass, boorish and typical right wing hate. You do not deserve respectful answers. Your sources are clearly the gutter.
Dang skippy I quit your paper Dan. I love seeing those circulation numbers dive! $180 that is not going to help a liberal rag! Soon, you will be charging on the net.
Hey, I’m here trolling. No hidden fact here bucko!
Hate filled cretin = anyone who doesn’t bow down to Barack Hussein Obama and his goal of destruction for our country. Free speech …… as long as you agree with me. The liberal creed.
Dr. Shakil Afridi? I here crickets ………..
Bob really despises people he considers “freeloaders” like welfare recipients, or people who get food stamps, or people who collect unemployment.
But he’s not above freeloading himself, now, is he?
#229 “Skippy” Now what other troll on this blog uses that one?
Hear cricket, cricket.
#226 Why look, Bob’s a no-good freeloader in addition to skyrocketing to the top of the vile poster list.
“I here crickets ………..”
Bob’s just drunk posting again. That’s just the natty lite talkin’. Another pathetic miserable drunken high school dropout like jony/tack that can’t hold his/her liquor.
“The ruling didn’t say it was right to lie, it said it was free speech and that lying about your valor was not a crime.”
Sorry Sandi, but once again it is you who is wrong. Maybe it is just your knee jerk reaction to want to disagree with me no matter what I say or perhaps you are just too stubborn to admit it, but in your own statement you admit that they said it was a right. Since you clearly don’t understand, here is a quick civics lesson. The Bill of Rights (Constitutional Rights in lay terms) protect the citizens from GOVERNMENT action, not private action. The First Amendment gives everyone the right to free speech. If the Supremes said lying is speech that is protected under the first amendment as free speech, then they are saying it is a right. Surely even you can see that. Or are you actually going to allow your feelings about me to coax you into arguing that free speech isn’t a right? This is simple logic that surely you can grasp. If free speech is a right and lying is free speech, then lying is a right.
And BTW, just because you can be fired for something doesn’t mean it isn’t a right.That goes back to the whole government v. private action thing. You can be fired for carrying a gun to work if the business has a policy against employees going armed.It isn’t a crime because people have 2A rights, but they still can be fired for it, just not prosecuted. Understand?
“You can be fired for carrying a gun to work if the business has a policy against employees going armed.It isn’t a crime because people have 2A rights, but they still can be fired for it, just not prosecuted.”
Chuck, the gunners already are pushing incremental change in this regard, and one day, at least somewhere, some state legislature will pass a law that gives people the right to bear arms at work.
They already have begun with “in your car on your employer’s parking lot.”
Once that is passed, the gunner will whine, “But, but, but. . .there are hardly ANY shootings in employer parking lots, and there are lots of shootings in workplaces, which right now are dangerous gun free zones, so employees have the right to defend themselves if their employers aren’t going to defend them!”
And they will argue, “The Second Amendment right to bear arms outweighs a property owner’s right not to have weapons on his property!”
And they will also argue “What part of the Second Amendment says you can’t bear arms at work?!”
The law will be written in such as way that employers with guards and metal detectors (as in a courthouse) will be exempt from having to allow guns in the workplace.
Mark my words, this is going to happen in at least one state in the next 7 years. And then some other dominoes will fall.
Dr. Shakil Afridi? I here crickets ………..
You folks are gutless cowards.
No drinking and drugging here moron. Go have a glass of Kool Aid!
Better yet, in the back of your fridge is a bottle of SHUT UP!
Dr. Shakil Afridi? I here crickets ………..
Dan, that slippery slope you reference with the “gunners” is exactly why the stolen Valor ruling bothers me so much. As sure as you are about the “gunners” demanding the right to carry anywhere, anytime without consequence, I am just as sure that the “liars” will make the same argument given the Courts decision that lying is protected speech. It will be things like, I’m suing you for violating my civil rights when you didn’t hire me because I lied on my application. After all, I have a right to lie” or “You can’t prosecute me for perjury just because I lied under oath. I have a right to lie.” And youmark my words, these BS arguments will surface just as suredly as will the gun arguments, only probably sooner and to more public support.
The Federal Government does not require auto ibsirance, states do.
Dan:
“Mark my words, this is going to happen in at least one state in the next 7 years. And then some other dominoes will fall.”
While you’re at it swami, tell us all of the consequenses and blood in the streets that will come of it too.
Chuck, I do not think it is me who has the “knee jerk reaction to want to disagree”. I understand perfectly that they said it was a free speech right to lie, but they did not say it was right to lie. No one has said that! I think because the logic is so simple you are dismissing it. Lying is A RIGHT but it is NOT RIGHT. It is a right but it is not a crime except under certain circumstance and then hardly ever. There remains a difference. I did not argue it was not decided “a right”, I argued that they did not say it was right. Do you get it yet? That little “a” makes a difference.
You can be fired for lying, but it is not necessarily a crime to lie. Even people who lie under oath are very very rarely charged or prosecuted. I think that too is a shame. If you want to keep arguing you go ahead, but argue what I did say, not what I did not say.
“The Federal Government does not require auto insurance, states do.”
And THAT, Michael Howdyshell, was the only consistent and logical argument Romney had against expanding HIS OWN PLAN to the nation.
Now it’s gone, defeated by a conservative-dominated Supreme Court. And it’s why Mr. String-in-the-Breeze Romney is going to be toast in November. Selah.
John Wilburn, I’m not predicting blood will run in the streets. But as someone who has fired a concealed carry permit holder in the past, I can tell you I was damn glad he was not carrying when I told him he was out of a job.
Those are very tense, high-emotion moments and a gun does not belong in them.
If you admit they are “BS arguments” why then would they “fly”? In most states, any kind of discrimination is hard to prove and being fired for lying is hardly going to become a cause celebre for anyone IMO. The whole “stolen Valor” thing is repulsive on several levels and it has cost people more than just a job.
There are situations where free speech has been taken too far and to uphold that is another problem I have with the SC. It makes it harder yes, but it does not make it impossible and most people, and believe it or not, most bleeding heart liberals, disagree that it is right to lie.
It is simple common sense, the proximity of a weapon in a moment of anger can lead to deadly consequences. We have seen both the lack of restraint and the death of civility on a conversation blog FGS, what makes anyone think that in an actual, face to face slap down the presence of a gun or guns would not escalate to such being used? You expect us to believe you know where to draw the line and no, I don’t.
Now it’s gone, defeated by a conservative-dominated Supreme Court.
Not hard to see where this is going. If by some miracle Republicans aren’t able to overturn 0bamacare, when our Greece moment arrives in a few years, libs like Dan will be blaming Bush for appointing Roberts who cast the deciding vote.
You people think Roberts is going to be praised for reaching across the aisle? Right. Just like libs praise Bush 41 for raising taxes and Bush 43 for the prescription drug and education bills.
#236 Aw, look at poor little Bobby blowing up. And he still can’t spel to gud.
Re: #239 & 242:
Actually, the most unambiguous prediction of riots given here recently has come from John, who predicted riots if rights abuser George Zimmerman isn’t convicted for shooting to death an unarmed black kid, with John comparing it to the Rodney King riots.
I refrained from mentioning this at the time, but I asked a close acquaintance about John’s prediction and its’ supposed certainty. Why would this person have an opinion that’s any more valid than John’s? Well, besides being a lifelong Angeleno and Ivy League law school graduate, he just happens to have been a member of the Christopher Commission that investigated the King riots and made the recommendations for reform of LAPD that ensued.
This acquaintance said that from what he could tell, the two situations are quite unlike in most of the key points, and that he does not believe that the outcome of the Zimmerman case will lead to the sort of intensive anarchy that the King verdict caused. He felt that a Zimmerman conviction is more likely to cause problems from those who’d like to defend Zimmerman’s actions.
In 1992 when the King riots happened, one had the vantage point of a kid in a Giles County junkyard, and the other was an attorney in Los Angeles. But I won’t discount John’s declaration on that basis alone, since he may have special insight. After all, John’s also emphatic that police chiefs, trauma surgeons, and the ATF don’t understand gun issues as well as a real estate middleman in small town Virginia.
We report, you decide.
Suzie you blithering fool….SCOTUS justices dont have an “aisle”. The fact that the right usually ends up on the wrong side of the constitution is a reflection on them,not the makeup of the justices.
Bob, for the record, you dont strike me as much of a reader….I’m calling BS on your little RT subscription. And for next time,,,,it’s “I HEAR crickets. ”
The inevitability of Obama’s reelection is setting in. They’re losing it at a faster pace than normal.
4 Bob…”there loosing it at a faster pase then normal “
Warren:
“We report, you decide.”
You’ve reported and I’ve decided you’re an just an a**hole that likes to use me for a punching bag from the anonymous comfort of your chair. It is obvious you aren’t about adding to the conversation or articulating your views anymore. You simply enjoy ripping on me. It’s pathetic.
Dan:
“Those are very tense, high-emotion moments and a gun does not belong in them.”
Sandi:
“244.It is simple common sense, the proximity of a weapon in a moment of anger can lead to deadly consequences.”
The thing is, though, life is full of tense, emotional moments and this is not a rampant problem. By and large, those of us who carry everyday don’t instinctively want to grab the gun and do anything stupid like all of the anti-rights people seem to thing will likely happen. Why aren’t you concerned about them running you over with their car? Whay aren’t you concerned they’ll pull a knife? No, it’s purely a gun thing with you guys.
What I most dislike that you’re saying is that guns don’t belong in a highly emotional surprise situation that could be dangerous to you so therefore the person should not be armed regardless of whatever highly emotional surprise situation could happen that is dangerous to them. Since you have zero control over whatever emotional situations are going on in the deadly cars next you on the raod every day, why worry about those same people on foot. You’re cherry-picking the issue to suit your contempt for gun carriers.
“…one had the vantage point of a kid in a Giles County junkyard…”
??? Considering your description of me, there’s no credibility in your description of him. You can so go and suck it!
RE; #250:
John, “a kid in a Giles County junkyard…” is based on your own report here of golden moments spent in such a setting. Perhaps my timeline is wrong, and you were already well into your twenties in 1991. If you’re actually as well equipped to judge the basis of the King riots as a Christopher Commission member who also lived in LA during the Watts riots of ’65, then by all means keep reminding us of the similarities you see with the Zimmerman case.
I don’t try to rag on you, John. I will however, take opportunities to remind those who are manifestly pleased to think of themselves as particularly objective thinkers that they have no exemption from faulty or self-serving reasoning.
In case you’d like an apology for any misunderstanding, I’ll offer one that I hope meets your innermost expectations:
BeinG UNclear is beinG UNhelpful, so havinG UNderstood that you’re feelinG UNrecognized, I’ll be sure your avaTAR GETs my attention, and I will see that I AM MOre careful in the future when referring to your earlier posts.
John Wilburn, do you get that using people’s past posts against them, invites the same upon yourself? Do you get that your insults to other posters invites them upon yourself? I am not clear in what realm that your digs are supposed to go unanswered or ignored (maybe the one where they can see your gun?) but in here, you make yourself a target.
As to your very faulty observation in #249, I have seen plenty of road rage fools use their vehicles in a threatening and unsafe manner and had to take evasive action. I would think a rational person would realize that I would ALSO not want a knife or any other ready weapon in any heated emotional situation if I did not want a gun there. Duh!
One more thing John Wilburn, do you get that insulting the POV of others invites the same on yourself? If you do not “get” all that, then stop blogging.
251-253,
I’d love to show some Contrasuzie-style creativity too, but I doubt it would be approved.
Creativity that gets by the few rules here is a talent. If you don’t want to take it, don’t dish it out. I am sorry if you believe you did not ask for it, but I see it very differently.
Suzie you blithering fool….SCOTUS justices dont have an “aisle”. The fact that the right usually ends up on the wrong side of the constitution is a reflection on them,not the makeup of the justices.
Do you really think the softball player the with stubby fingers was chosen because she was brilliant? Or Sotomayor? Or Ruth Buzzi Ginsburg? Keep dreaming, hon.
But glad you’re fine with the 2000 Bush/Algore decision. I am too.
Question of the day: Does Kristen post more when she’s “on vacation” than when she’s on the “job”?
257.”Question of the day: Does Kristen post more when she’s “on vacation” than when she’s on the “job”?”
Answer: WHO CARES?!