Sunday’s column: Obama’s saboteurs are twisting the truth
By Sam Dean | The Roanoke Times
A week ago Friday, President Barack Obama uttered some now-notorious words that his political opponents have twisted into a nationwide anti-business anthem.
He said them at the corner of Market Street and Church Avenue, in front of historic Fire Station No. 1, right here in Roanoke. Which means that our once-gritty railroad town is on the lips of just about every political pundit in the land.
Here are his words:
“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges.
“If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
Some cynical Obama haters have plucked a few bits from that middle paragraph and are now using them to weave lies about what the president meant.
But anyone who bothers to peer past their sleazy spin would quickly realize that our historic, charming and thriving city is a perfect metaphor for Obama’s message. So was the place he uttered them.
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
July 22, 2012 - 6:00 AM
Great column, Dan. Those who will decry your words later today all benefit from infrastructure put in place by local, state, and federal government. The precious capitalism often touted here would not thrive without that infrastructure. In 2012, we have a stark choice between candidates – one who wishes to make the commons work well for all and one who wishes to make the commons the property of the wealthy. The choice for me is clear.
Great column Dan! The -I got mine-I did it all by myself – the hell with the rest of you romneyites will be frothing at the mouth .
oh please- we HEARD what he said, we KNOW what he meant – he knows NOTHING about ambition or building businesses..he NEVER held a real job, NEVER built a business. by the way, bammy, you dumbass- we do NOT believe the ‘oh what he meant was’ explanations..too bad you effed up. You LOSE.
Dan in my opinion you miss the point. Which came first, entrepreneurs or government? Of course the entrepreneurs did. If it wern’t for people like Mr. Wells willing to take a risk, invest and create jobs – government would not have the revenue from taxes to do anything. President Obama revealed his belief that government is the root of all good. That is what I take issue with. We all come together as a community and country to make things better and government is only the means by which we have chosen to distribute the money/projects. Government alone is powerless, it is only by the ingenuity and courage of our citizens that it is allowed to do anything. And that stands in stark contrast to what Peesident Obama believes.
Preachin’ to the choir. Forget “facts” if yer preachin’ to the “Don’t confuse me…” crowd. Try bread and circuses.
Does the end justify the means? I received the email reply below from a friend after I pointed out that an earlier email he sent contained numerous distortions and outright lies about Obama. His reply is the now typical RW mentality that lies are ok if it gets Obama out of office:
“don’t totally disagree with you Bill. However, the bigger issue is we haven’t been getting the truth about President Obama. There is clearly a big void with regards to what we know about his past and his many nefarious associations with people who are clearly Anti-American. Not to mention growing up with parents who from his own self admission, were radically this way. Don’t be naïve with regards to what is happening here. It’s an attempt at a takeover. Thus far, through his first term, he has shown disregard for everything that has made this country great, including and most importantly the Constitution. I think the point made by the author of the email I sent shortly after this one is a good summation of this. I’m not frustrated at the information being floated around by conservatives, even if some of it is not totally accurate. I’m frustrated at the fact that this is all happening with little to no resistance by the media and Democrats. None of what I have said here is factually inaccurate. Its reality and I’m more worried about it than the emails.”
Also, I had another friend call me the other night saying that he read the statement Obama made in Roanoke and it made him want to puke. I asked if he had read the sentence in context or just the one sentence. Of course he hadn’t. I copied that part of Obama’s speech and emailed it to him and then asked if it helped him not lose his supper. The same friend called me yesterday saying I needed to immediately go out and buy several high capacity magazines because he’d heard that Obama was going to issue an Executive Order banning high capacity magazines in light of the Colorado shootings. I replied that Obama had just made a statement that he would not interfere with 2nd amendment rights for law abiding citizens….my friend’s response…disbelief.
We used to be a country where the end doesn’t justify the means. I pray to God that we somehow return to that before the RW propaganda machine destroys the moral mind of this great Nation.
Thanks! Was at the Obama gathering and appreciated and agreed with his comments re: individual initiative AND help along the way. And as you say, am getting upsetting feedback from my (very few!) non-Obama friends who have “plucked a few bits” from the speech. I don’t bother to respond to them because they don’t want to hear the full story. So, thank YOU for putting it out there.
Why put those 2 lines in the speech? If he left out “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” then I wouldn’t have a problem with anything he said. I agree there is a role for government. But, as a small business owner, I feel like he went out of his way to devalue my hard work.
Yes, I had good teachers. Yes, the government builds roads. Yes, the government built the internet. The government provided those same things to *everyone else* as well, so why am I successful when someone else isn’t? I don’t have the complete answer for that, but I can say that it isn’t luck! I took a risk and went out on my own. I shouldn’t be bashed for that.
I don’t know his motives, but when he says things like that it really makes me wonder.
Dan Casey…..you are as brain dead as the rest of your Obumma supporters. You, my man, need help, the professional kind. Use Obummacare, but realize, you have to go to another state. Virginia has NOT recognized this mandate/tax as of yet. Most Virginians see it as it is, another infringement on our rights as a citizen in this once great country. Oh yea, Roanoke was the perfect place for this zealot, look closely at the majority of people who came…you’ll get my point.
You didn’t write this column. Someone else made that happen. So why is your name on it?
you rant that obama haters are using their hate to misquote obama reminds of a
a old groucho marks joke. he is in bed with another woman when his wife walks in.
groucho says “who are going to believe, me or your lying eyes.”
Actually Dan, everytime your prez.speakes w/o his beloved teleprompter he exposes himself for what he really is.Sadly you’ll never see that.
If you talk to actual small business owners, to a one they’re happy to discuss the investors that made it possible for them to begin, loyal employees that stuck with them through difficult times, customers that supported them and brought them business…absolutely nothing Obama said is either untrue or controversial, it’s obvious fact. That the right is clinging to this in an effort to distract from Rmoney’s “Corporations are people, my friends” damn-the-little-people elitism is telling.
When I mention “actual small business owners”…that’s to differentiate them from the fauxners we get on here. These are the same actual small business owners who will tell you that taxes aren’t what’s hurting them….it’s lack of market for their goods and services brought on by high unemployment, in turn brought on by the borderline-seditious efforts of “Big Business” to torpedo the economy in some effort to promote Rmoney’s candidacy.
“Ancient Bobcat”
Awesome name!
Great column, Dan. Thank you for telling those who listen to the false words of the opposition to President Obama. I heard every word that he said at that meeting at the fire house. I knew he wasn’t critical of the business people in no way. I KNOW we all depend upon the local, state and federal governments as well as those who have taught us the many things in many ways for all the things we know.
Obama’s top 10 business accomplishments:
1.
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3.
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8.
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13.”If you talk to actual small business owners, to a one they’re happy to discuss the investors that made it possible for them to begin, loyal employees that stuck with them through difficult times, customers that supported them and brought them business…absolutely nothing Obama said is either untrue or controversial, it’s obvious fact.”
On those points, you’re right, but most small business owners I talk with, also want Obama out! Obama has ZERO experience operating within the budget of money earned. I want a new awning for my office. It will cost $1,400. If we close what I have projected, the budget will be there and I will do it by October. Yes, I could do it now, but I pay the bills, not everybody else. Being disciplined is important to longevity. He imposes no such constraints and has no experience with a real-world budget like that. It has been a blank check from the taxpayers since the day he took office. I’m not a Mitt Romney fan, but am way past ready to quit watching Obama waste my hard earned money.
LWers attack! …..
We all know the government provides the basic framework in our country, BUT to say an individual cannot use his hard work to grow a business without the government is DUMB . Obama is preaching socialism and has been for almost 4 years, and the quicker we get he out of Washington, the better. All you bleeding heart liberals will have to try and make it with work in the future and not by Obama handouts. Answer one thing, are all your ideas for the columns you write from Obama ? Even though they sound like it, I think you probably thought them up and wrote them without his help.
Dan
Glad to see you recognize that tax CUTS revitalized downtown.Why not revitalize alll of America with tax cuts?
So……where did the government get its money to do us all these great things?
This is the obvious answer that Obama and people like Casey miss.
I’m sure it’s not left over profits from the very profitable USPS.
The Right can lie all they want. The truth will out. Time to send some Goppers home so we can move america forward into the 21st century instead of moving back to the 19th century which the Goppers so desperately want.
Great Column Dan.
4. Bill – You have got to be kidding me. Business came first? Government has been operation long before there was anything but agriculture.
Btw, I would like to recognize terps for his uncredited contributions to this column.
Gee Dan, you must be like Chris Matthews and get that tingly feeling running up your leg every time you here or see your “messiah”. Did you swoon when you saw him in Roanoke like 20 some idiots did? Speak of spinning, it appears that you have a good one yourself afterall the idiot did say it and he was off teleprompter. Not all of us in Roanoke depend on the government for section 8 housing, snap cards, free phones, free breakfast etc. etc. Some of us actually have a JOB, someone has to work to pay for these parasites with five or six kids and don’t know who their father is. So Dan, the next time you put on your knee pads to stick your head up his ass please let him know that a lot of people here in roanoke thinks that he and Mooshell suck. I tired of paying for their many vacations and his over 100 rounds of golf.
Without the controls of government, society would not exist. The need for government quickly developed to organize and protect society. Once business activities began, government was asked not only to control greed, but also to advance commerce (see roads and military in Rome and throughout the Roman Empire). Without government, there would be chaos in which no business could survive.
Dan, great article. Any businessman that believes he has made it on his own ambition and efforts is a narcissist at least and out of touch with reality. Commerce simply cannot exist without society and society cannot exist without government.
To the smart people….don`t get angry when this Odumbass clown says something STUPID….relish it ! If you happened to miss Omorons ignorant statement, there are plenty others to come.
Loved #`s 9,11, & 12…….That `ol Ancient Bobcat is a rascally fellow, now I tell ya !
You say your readers should take a step back and look at the context of what he said, and I agree, but dont stop when its most comfortable. America 101 is about limited government intervention, capitalism, and religious freedom. He was elected to lead that nation yet he’s often shown a distaste for precisely what we’re about. That’s the real context of what he said.
So, his argument is directed towards business. He’s saying there’s a cause, government, prior to business and upon which it rests. Well, Mr. President, two can play that game: US government wouldnt exist either if business interests and religious interests (which many fear the prez isnt too keen on) hadnt swayed future Americans away from precisely the oppressive hand of big government. “You (government) didnt build that (business)” either, Mr. President.
The president, as per usual, is hiding his real motives and pulling our heartstrings with flowery but ambiguous good guy language (“Somewhere you had help, maybe it was a teacher, or a police officer, or the lunch lady…”), then throwing in direct, cheap one-liners (“You didnt build that”). Typical Fabian strategy. We’re in a deep economic recession and cultural malaise and yet the president of the USA — the greatest capitalist success story and spearhead of freedom in the world, thanks to business in no small measure — tells business owners, in suddenly blunt language, that they aren’t ultimately responsible for their success (“You didnt build that”). Hmm…why the sudden change? We already know everything he says is utterly calculated. Therefore the only plausible explanation is that this speech was another one of his cryptic diatribes/dissertations.
The Roanoke Times and World News better hope Capitalism stays put…Or, maybe they`re looking for a bail-out.
Dan gives Ed Walker way too much credit. Walker never could have restored all of those buildings if Roanoke did not have “roads and bridges”. Also, I think he had a great 3rd grade math teacher. Give her the credit.
Pie is good. Everybody loves pie, pie makes people happy. Can you have too much pie? What happens when the pie is all gone?
Of course “government is the root of all good” because government is the root of us. Our Constitution set up a representative government that is supposed to do what is best for this country. That President Obama is being held responsible and insulted daily by those to ignorant and hate filled to see that this is 30 years of bad chickens coming home to roost makes you right wing haters all the more ludicrous not credible!
Government alone is not powerless, it has all of the power of this nation behind it. That is why it is respected and listened to and why people still are dying to come here.
President Obama is the rare American who has actually succeeded by his own ingenuity, intelligence, courage and drive. Precious little was ever handed to him and he succeeded to the highest office and honor in this nation. He is the last person to deny, discourage or disable the entrepreneur, the achievers or the progress he acknowledges built this nation.
The people wanting more tax cuts are like the gluttons wanting more pie. There is an end to the pie, there is a point when more pie makes you sick. There is a point when more pie for you makes it harder for the hungry. Harder to be healthy. Harder to be productive and harder to be part of the solution. There is a tipping point on taxes and we have reached it. They are NOT going to go down, not under Obama and not under Romney, because the cannot.
We cannot pay the debt, we cannot end the deficits and we cannot simply cut our spending enough. That is the other reality the haters cannot face. Oh they will, because it is an undeniable reality, but they will still blame it on Obama because apparently, the truth is too hard for them to face. It is patently obvious that hate and greed makes you both crazy and stupid. The TP/GOP wanting to elect a Wall Street fat cat tycoon who has been part of the problem for over a decade proves it.
This whole kerfuffle was about hating Obama more than loving America. Same old same old. Romney proves that too.
Oh, and why in the world would all you idiot liberals come to the defense of Omoron when you say he did nothing wrong ? Carp guts….smell `em ?
Terps, I am fairly certain that what revitalized downtown was tax incentives (bribes), but since that is the government giving business something I can see why you need to call them “cuts”. Yes indeed, if the treasury had the money to pay us all to do the right thing, we would surely “revitalize America”. Sad, ain’t it?
Excellent column Dan, but it sure seems to be “pearls before swine”. No, you cannot think for them. They deserve everything Romney would do to them.
“On those points, you’re right, but most small business owners I talk with, also want Obama out!”
So they get exactly the same opportunity as everyone else to cast their vote for the candidate of their choice. If they lose, tough….they can put on their big girl pants and soldier on just as the rest of us had to during 8 years of having that idiot Bush in office.
If they think that their interests in any way coincide with those of Rmoney…just because he has “business experience” …they deserve what they get. And running a small business day to day has nothing at all in common with governing a large expensive nation with countless obligations and interests…they’re not at all the same thing. Being able to balance a checkbook is nice, but it’s not a huge qualification for the leader of the free world.
I just have one question for you Dan, as well as all the regular players who are most assuredly about to get the anti-Romney blather machine fired up any minute now. For all of you who are soooooo offended by the right taking a couple of sentences out of Obama’s reading and using it for political reasons, how is this any different than a few weeks back when the left seized on one line out a Romney speech? Remember? “I’m not worried about the very poor.” Remember that one? Little context missing there too, but we didn’t see Dan cranking out Sunday columns about the “sleazy spin” coming from the Romney-haters on the left.
Before you guys fully implant that flag high atop Mt. Sanctimony, you might want check the GPS again. You might not actually be on the high-ground you think you occupy. It appears you may have lost your way in Hypocrisy Pass.
Hey Sandi, read your diatribe, the government is the root of all EVIL, I don’t have enough time to pick you stupid rant line by line because of church, but will say that YOU are one ignorant liberal. Be sure to kiss your Obummer picture on your wall, have a slice of that Obummer pie while I pray for your worthless soul.
Kristen:
“And running a small business day to day has nothing at all in common with governing a large expensive nation with countless obligations and interests…they’re not at all the same thing. Being able to balance a checkbook is nice, but it’s not a huge qualification for the leader of the free world.”
Everything you said up to what is quoted above, I agree with, but there are two huge problems with the rest of it. One, the nations “countless obligations” should not be countless. We have a serious accountability problem now. You may have meant it figuratvely, but in reality it is a serious problem. Two, your “leader of the free world” obviously can’t balance a checkbook. And to me, that is a tangible qualification for the job.
Sure is a lot of racism and pure hatred here today: Mooshell? Omoron? Odumbass? Idiot liberals?
If you have a point to make, then make it and leave the name-calling aside. I personally don’t think any of you are capable of it.
Obama saboteurs twisting the truth?
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Watch the video of Obama, watch the facial expressions, watch the body language listen to the words and draw your own conclusions as to who is “twisting the truth” and who is insulting your intelligence.
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http://roanokeslant.blogspot.com/2012/07/obama-saboteurs-twisting-truth.html
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I see Jeff “dodo” Doto crawled out from under his rock again today. The sun musat be shining. Snakes like to come out and bask in the sun.
Hey Sandi, we survived almost four years of Obummer wrecking the economy, I’m sure that we can thrive with Romney, oh by the way, don’t choke on that Obummer crap pie that he has been feeding the liberal zombies……….Oh that’s right BUSH did it! Friggin idiot!
Odumba
Odumbass
Moochell
Etc
Etc
Wow, we have the brains of Roanoke on the blog today!
Wow, the haters are out today. Sad.
“Being able to balance a checkbook is nice, but it’s not a huge qualification for the leader of the free world.”
Obviously hasn’t been a requirement in recent years!
The issue of what-came-first / what-created-what seems totally irrelevant to me.
It takes two hands to clap.
And those hands need to be in coordination with each other — working together to fulfill common/desired goals.
My-way-or-the-highway is a prescription for failure, IMHO.
“If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”
There’s really no way to take that out of context. And if you look at 0bama’s long history of Marxist, anti-American, and radical associations, it’s easy to understand the statement is exactly what he meant. The man truly believes capitalism and business people are the enemy. That’s why he intends to zap them with 0bamacare and with the tax code.
To Richard – I am sure all the farmers out there will be surprised to hear they are not running a business. Whether it is today or since the beginning of time. They work to provide for their families and that is a business. Long before there was gov’t
Dan, I’m a little surprised that you’re still such an Obamapologist after 3 1/2 years of the denigration of success spewed by the current President on the rare occasions that he’s “off prompter.” What he said in Roanoke is just affirmation of who he is and what he believes. This is no big surprise to those of us who have read what he’s written, heard what he’s said and seen the hard core leftists that infest his administration, Cass Sunstein, Arne Duncan, Van Jones…ths list goes on.
“Millionaires & billionaires,” “fair share,” “shared sacrifice,” are among the many class warfare propaganda bytes that have been flowing from the White House since 2009. I find it disturbing that the President has chosen to use the divide & conquer strategy, demonizing the successful while appealing to his base, the takers, with promises of free stuff. This is trickle up poverty at its worst. At the same time, he’s spending this country into the dumper with record annual deficits while implying that if the “rich” would just pony up a few more bucks, all would be well. Do the math, Dan, that scenario is abject crap.
The President’s Roanoke speech is just the exclamation point on what this whole administration has been about. Your Sunday column was a cute spin, but not taking into account the history of this man and his administration is disengenuous. Refer back to the recent slide show on the White House website “The Life of Julia” which detailed how one cannot make it through life without government at your side every step of the way. This is more collectivist propaganda meant to diminish the importance of the individual. It is understood that the President can’t campaign on his record and must resort to this sort of divisiveness. Who is twisting the truth?
Ken Taylor:
37.”…I don’t have enough time to pick you stupid rant line by line because of church, but will say that YOU are one ignorant liberal…”
Let me hurry up and insult your intellect on the way out the door to go turn my brain off for an hour or so. Gotta love the irony in that post.
The CPA doesn’t know that Agriculture is business? Hilarious.. Agriculture is actually the leading business in Virginia. Look it up.
#47, Loose screws Suzie… There is a way to take it out of context.
I mean, just hold your breath for 2 sentences after that one.
“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
I mean… just like you’re taking “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” out of context, I can take “when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative,” out of context.
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but the idea of individual initiative being the catalyst of success seems like that kinda thing you like to hear.
#41 Dave….Poor little panty-waist Dave…too indoctrinated to see the light. Yes, dave…I am a viper…with great vision.
DON`T BE SWAYED BY DIVERSIONARY TACTICS OF THE IGNORANT…..HAMMER HOME THE ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY…Also…our congrats to the Governor of Oklahoma for bringing forth a law that will penalize any Federal authority for pushing ObamaCrap in the state….5 years /$5000…any State authority trying to implement the garbage will suffer 1 year+/$1000+ …Now, lets get the remaining Governors to follow suit…30 states ought to get the ball rolling ! REMEMBER…ECONOMY !!!! Oh, Dan….Did you ever decide which one was responsible for the Black Panthers….Karl Rove….OR …..James O`Keefe ? Been waiting on an answer for over a week…if you`re so sure , why can`t we get an answer ?
You were so right when you said this column would make people angry. Can’t wait to read Tuesday’s.
It also looks like the liberal lemmings are out today as well…wouldn`t you agree, Ancient Bobcat ?
Another right wing lie is that liberals consider Obama to be the messiah. It is both offensive and laughable.
Conservatives may worship politicians, this liberal doesn’t.
#50 John Wilburn, I guess WWJD isn’t a popular thought anymore for conservative “Christians”.
44.Wow, the haters are out today. Sad.
Yes, Contra, they are. As Ken Taylor pointed out in #37, he had church today, where his anger and resentment about a smart young president with a non-provincial, modern American biography could be set aside while he enjoyed the illusion that the America of his lifelong imagining might exist. Then he leaves church and reality intrudes. Oh, those poor, terribly persecuted, middle aged American white men; their burden is so unfair, and it’s all the fault of others.
Debbie, Tuesday’s column will get people going for some very different reasons
Hey John, let me refresh, if I can, your brain while I wipe my ass with my Obummer toilet tissue, if you want to bow and kiss the feet of a marxist,go for it and while you are kissing the brown hole why don’t you do a reach around, I hear that it is popular with you libs. Oh, the irony bit..Obummer and Moooshell supposidly go to church also, I’m sure that Rev. Wright would OK the friggen lies that Obummer spews on the crackers.
@ Ken Taylor, just wondering which church you are going to attend today …”worthless soul”…I think you may want to go to the altar and pray about that one?
Didn’t Jesus say that if you call someone stupid, you are in danger of experiencing hell’s fire? Just sayin??
It should be noted that “ancient bobcat” is not former RT columnist Ben Beagle, but that Jeff Doto DOES have connections to Radford.
Debbie you might be right, he might not be the “messiah” but your posting tells me that you would kiss his ass in a New York second even if he killed the pope.
Dan, you failed to mention anything about the Gainesboro redevelopment project in your column. That project is right next door to those projects you DO mention in your column. The choice you made to NOT mention that government-driven “business development” project in your column puts you in the same league as Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. What you “opinion” journalists do is cherry-pick facts to spin within your stories to ultimately support and promote your opinions. You just do it from the opposite side from where they come from. Folks like you only know how to go with one way to look at things…and it’s YOUR way, and others be damned, or vilified. What about Gainesboro?
59.#50 John Wilburn, I guess WWJD isn’t a popular thought anymore for conservative “Christians”.
No, they might think WWJD, but mean WWTJIIHBD. That’s the problem.
WWTJIWTIHBD = What Would The Jesus I Imagine Him Being Do.
The light brown hair, white Jesus of the story books who is imagined to be a “conservative” is a myth so widespread, it’s downright scary. The message is farthest lost on the ones who preach it the loudest, e.g. Suzie.
How sad is this? Walker is a businessman, and I am sure that any suggestion that he did not do that, did not build that, probably had him mad enough to chew nails and spit ball bearings. Now whether he is brave enough to admit that is a different story. Business exists to make money. Profits….all the profits one can get…all the profit the market will bear..is the reason for business. Businesses do not exist to be bastions of public service. Of course he uses the historic tax credits. As a businessman, he will take advantage of anything available. That is not a bad thing. However, you and I paid for those tax credits. So did Ed Walker. I can assure you that without Ed Walker, the Patrick Henry would still be a dilapidated wreck. Mr. Walker is a very generous person in his praise. There is a plaque near the lobby elevator at the PH that demonstrates this. Dan was at the PH one night, basking in the reflected glow. I sometimes suspect Dan is not as pro Obama as he seems. I think he likes to stir the pot. It means good ratings for his column. I don’t like either candidate. Romney seems to be the lesser of two big government hacks. I would have preferred a Paul/Cain ticket myself.
W was better than Obama, but that is faint praise. He was another big government hack.
Look, big all encompassing government has been tried….many times. It has always failed. There is a reason that while our country is young, our constitution is old. It is because it put the individual front and center. If our government had not strayed from it’s minimal form, things would be different. We would not have the social security, interstate highways, etc. as we have now. Still, a need existed. It would have been fulfilled. Why is everyone so in love with the faltering things we have now? Why can it not be seen that maybe the complete private solution would have been better?
I am an individualist. I hold personal liberty and proprietorship to be sacred. What is it that so many see wrong with that?
What does it harm someone to be in earshot of a prayer? We have freedom OF religion. We do not have freedom FROM religion. You have no right to not be offended.
You know what, I bet many of you that disagree with me are nice people. The problem is that most do not have any absolutes in their moral code. Without any absolutes, there is no grounding. Without any absolutes, one gets blown about.
As I said before, I will come out ahead on Obamacare. So why am I vehemently opposed. I have a moral absolute…principles that I use. I ask why?, what for? How? Does this fit in the framework of the constitution?
Let’s not play games. Each of you…..do YOU believe in private ownership of property or not? No half measures. If you want to qualify your yes, then you do not believe In private propery, but some bastardization that is merely government permitting you an illusion of private property.
Do you believe in the supremacy of the rights of the individual of not?
If you believe in a system of the supremacy of the government over the individual, then say so…don’t be coy about it.
Yo Frank,
There’s LOTS I didn’t mention in the column, including the color of your underwear. Relax, dude. I only have so much space.
Ken Taylor, thriving in the scum. Go, Team Hatred!
I think the “full” quote speaks for itself.
It is unfortunate that we don’t often get the “full” quote, from the media, on some of Romney’s statements and instead end up with “I like to fire people”
Personally I believe that Government exists for the people and not the opposite, and I recall paying a whole bunch of taxes for roads, defense etc…
I only wish that was where all the money went.
Hey Ken Taylor, I will have the please of voting for Obama’s opponent twice this fall and speak out against his unqualified presidency regularly here. I’m not a “lib” either; I’m a libertarian, but like Suzie, that’s probably too advanced a concept for you. I won’t humiliate your pastor by asking where you go to church. We probably agree on a number of things, but no one want’s what you’re selling, if only because of the packaging.
Ken, tell us about your walk with God and how you strive to win “worthless” lost souls for him. Or if church is just your obligatory Sunday morning guilt trip prevention because you’re afraid of hell, I apologize. You might talk a mean game, but you’ll get it handed to you by the highly intelligent “libs” here if you hang around long enough. I disagree with them frequantly, but rightfully take them more seriously than you.
Ken @ 3:12, no, I wouldn’t. I do support him, but I don’t kiss anyone’s ass. You post says a lot more about you than it does about me.
#62 Ken Taylor, what church do you attend? Your remarks are anything but Christlike. I don’t think your pastor would be proud of your comments on this blog.
yep, I knowed you’d go there, dano… Only a cherry-picker, just like the rest of ‘em. you had a bunch of space in your column…what was it, maybe a 30-incher? Couldn’t you find even a little inch or two for Gainsboro? Surfaces? Countryside? Et, cetera?
I gotta be honest, my big fear when a President comes to town is that he gets out alive so Roanoke won’t be remembered like Dallas was. Since he made it safely, I’m happy he talked off teleprompter and let his real side come out. We gave Obama $787 billion for a stimulus. He spent it on government programs. The unemployment rate went up. Slowly it has come down, but it is still higher than when he started spending the stimulus. “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that” confirms for many people — a majority of voters, I believe — that this our president is a big government blowhard who does not understand business and is to blame for the lack of a recovery from this recession. Context is not simply reading the whole speech but placing the speaker in context.
Recognizing the effect of the blunder the media rushed to Obama’s defense: He was taken out of context; misquoted; he didn’t mean what he said, or as Dan says, “He was right”. Pulease!
Pat Sajak summed it up perfectly: “It’s as if President Obama climbed into a tank, put on his helmet, talked about how his foray into Cambodia was seared in his memory, looked at his watch, misspelled “potato” and pardoned Richard Nixon all in the same day.”
I’m glad it went down in The Star City.
Dan, what IS the color of Frank’s underwear, and how do you happen to have this information? Are they briefs or boxers? Perhaps they are ffrilly and come from VS. Since you have the comments section, maybe you can wax philosophic about Frank’s underwear.
Just giving you a hard time. Admit it, you asked for that one!!!
Don’t look now but Frank has just insulted all of the cherry pickers of the world. What is your objection to those hard- working people, Frank?
“What is your objection to those hard- working people”
Hard working? They didn’t pick those cherries. Someone else did that.
Randallk, excellant post.
Dan, I’m good with you, el russhbo, glenn beck, etc. In fact, I’ve got nothing against legal cherry-pickers.
to David in Salem, Dan is blowing smoke about the color of my underwear. I don’t wear any. And, Dan’s thong makes it appear as though he doesn’t wear any, either. From his facial expression, I’d bet it’s a pretty tight thong, at that.
The garbage posted today by ken Taylor and Jeff doto typify the rabid racism and hysterical paranoia of southern redness haters. These. Are the people the gop has targeted since the Nixon days with their southern strategy. They are still just as ridiculous and stupid today as they were then
.
The word was redneck Damn spellcheck .
to Henry, at 8:20 a.m., you da man! Great post.
sandi,re: your long-winded post at 11:33 this morning…some say obama is just like Clarence Thomas in how he achieved his present government position. The only difference between the 2 is that one grew up in a black family, in a virtual share-croppers’ home, lived poor, and earned his success…while the other lived the middle-upper class life of a ner’do-well (drugs, etc.), raised in a white family, mentored by “Frank” (not me, by the way), and, thats about all we know of him. The rest he brings to the table is the liberal creed that will result in the failure of our country.
Watcha gonna do when Obama wins in November you bunch of wingnut teabagging SOBs?
I’ll tell you something. You goppers who worship at the alter of Grover Norquist think you can bully your way to victory in November, It’s ain’t happening. The way to beat you guys is exactly how Obama is doing it. Underlining the lying, cheatin’ scumbag you are running for president.
If that means getting in the gutter with you hatemongers, then so be it. You ain’t taking over MY country.
Guess we started our small business all wrong. We didn’t even think about trying to obtain government funding. We rented an existing building (not sure if the property owner received help from the government when he built it). Part of the driveway is still gravel, so I guess the government didn’t finish their part. We had to fight Roanoke Co to obtain a business license. Dear old Bob Johnson (a county government official) helped us with that. We used our own funds, saved over the years, and obtained a business loan that we paid off early. My husband and I both worked hard without any government funding – we paid business license fees like all other businesses do. Obama may have been partly right in his speech, but there wasn’t a government official in site to help when we were struggling to make that business the success that it is today. Teachers can teach you the skills needed to succeed, but you have to apply those skills. No one can do that for you. Balancing a checkbook, staying on budget – that’s important in business and in government. If a business doesn’t do either, they will fail. So will the government. Whether Democrat or Republican, we the people have to let government know that they need to go back to school.
Jeff Dolto, rapidly climbing past suzie for vileness, irrelevancy and just plain stupidity. That is if Dolto isn’t suzie.
#85 Frank, Henry pretty much just a Free Republic robot. Sad but true.
Dan certainly gets the ignorant racist underbelly of Roanoke riled up.
ColdnP at 5:27…perfectly said. I personally look forward to extending my hand in amity towards our despairing brothers and sisters on the right come November.
“Obviously hasn’t been a requirement in recent years!
Comment by Another Bob — July 22, 2012 @ 1:27 pm”
Please, AnotherBob…tell me how hard Bushling tried to balance the budget. Tell me so I can go into my evening laughing my head off.
#88 Umm, business owner, you’re still not getting the point of what Obama said. Think a little harder.
you tell’em, Cold and P…guess your face got full of “redness” with THAT rant, eh? Yep, obama’s in the gutter, you got that part right.
I mean, just hold your breath for 2 sentences after that one.
“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
Sure, that backpedal has been much discussed. Idiot Boy realized what he’d said then tried to cover. He let his true feelings come through just when he’d said privately in 2007 to a union audience that his goal was single payer health care. Of course he denied that on the campaign trail.
When you couple the sum total of 0bama’s actions AND words, it is clear he considers the private sector the enemy.
You were so right when you said this column would make people angry. Can’t wait to read Tuesday’s.
I guess that makes Dan a troll.
dan, i know how it goes…ignore the already down-trodden, squashed even further by the local gov’mint, and instead worry about my underwear. Sheesh, dana, is that all you got?
Gdad, I think Ken Taylor wins the ignorance personified award today.
If we weren’t already convinced by 0bama’s collective actions that he hates the private sector, then his little slip-up wouldn’t be a big deal. It’s not absurd like, say Media Matters’ claim that Rush Limbaugh disrespected the military by referring to a few fake soldiers. Anybody who knows anything, knows Rush is the ultimate supporter of the military.
JohnWilburn, when I say “countless obligations” I am being somewhat figurative, but also somewhat literal.
The country IS on the hook for obligations we can’t foresee, both immediate and long term. Obligations we can’t just walk away from. Take the recent middle east wars and their long-term repercussions. We’ve created a generation of soldiers so damaged physically and intellectually we’re going to be on the hook for huge, enormous, and incalculable medical expenses for the next 50 years. Can we walk away from them? Of course not. Can we let some bridge somewhere cave in because we cut infrastructure funding to compensate for this medical spending? No…can’t do that either.
You used your awning as an example, and I’ll use a bathroom I need to renovate. The difference between your awning and my bathroom, and the money the government has to come up with is that we can afford to sit, wait, gauge when would be best to do it…we’re in charge of of the timing of the expense. 9/11 hits, Katrina hits….the government doesn’t get to pick the timing of the expenditures. Neither can they just hold tight and not start stroking checks – whether the money is there or not.
I don’t know the answer to the spending conundrum either. I just know that the government with the good fortune to balance its books is the beneficiary of a confluence of events including flush economic times and no expensive domestic or foreign disasters to pay for. A lot of it’s luck.
WOW, the right wing has surely covered themselves in some glory today. Nothing Obama could do compares to what your hate and lies have done. He is just the convenient scapegoat.
David in Salem, your questions belie your hate. We are each “an individualist”! We each hold our beliefs “sacred”. You thinking Romney will protect “personal liberty and proprietorship” moreso than Obama only betrays your lack of knowledge about what has and will go on in this nation.
For people who hold the Constitution sacred, the “harm” is in seeing government establish a religion, not in being within “earshot of a prayer”. You put that in a category it does not belong in. What harm is there for people to leave the guns at home? Because they hold their right sacred. Yes, we DO have “freedom FROM religion” otherwise we do not have “freedom OF religion. Your right to swing your fist, ends at someone else’s nose. Always has, always will.
Having “absolutes in their moral code” is not what makes people better. Being better is having respect for those who also have a moral code, even if it is not your own. As the right wing haters here show daily, they cannot abide anyone who is not like them, does not agree with them and does not hate like them. That is why they are so offensive. You can pretend Suzie and Ken Taylor and such haters have some special admiral “absolutes”, or “grounding”, but all we see is hate, insult and disgusting dishonest attacks. No one needs those kinds of “absolutes”.
So what that your individual “moral absolute…principles” are different than mine? That is no reason to call me names or wish me ill. Agree with me or not, I am not stupid, evil or harming anyone. My beliefs fit well within the framework of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the history of this nation.
Yes, I absolutely believe in private ownership of property.
I believe in the supremacy of the rights of the individual as long as it does not oppress, distress or harm the same exact supremacy of the rights of the other individuals.
Believing we need regulation, a fair tax structure, a just judicial system, and not special treatment for the wealthy, that we are all in this together and that there is protection as well as participation required for a successful government, does not mean believing in “the supremacy of the government over the individual”. It does not matter if anyone is “coy”, none of you listen!
RandalK…are you talking about the Wheel of Fortune guy?
I guess Ken Taylor is our current resident Xian. Perhaps he needs the 10 Commandments hung on HIS wall.
#83 Careful there. You will get all of your extra chins and potbelly flapping at the same time. That would likely beat the few old brain cells you have left, out of your balding gray head.
Go up north to one of the ruined cities there and preach your democrat, liberal love. The little ethnic pukes there will love all that flapping. Liberal puke
Roanoke Co business owner, Nothing President Obama said indicated you “started our small business all wrong”. As has been mentioned, there is not “government funding” tax breaks and incentives for everyone, only for many. Same with protections, some professions and industries have and get more than others, thanks to the bought and paid for legislation and those lovable lobbyists.
You may believe you did it all on your own, but the roads that allow access and product to be conveyed came from ALL of us. The schools that educated your employees (customers), the sewer and water system infrastructure in place, the police, EMT’s, fire department, libraries, hospitals, all help your business not be in the dark ages and we ALL paid for those. The licenses that let you be legally in business and cause those who do not to be shut down, the courts when needed, the landfills, the patents, and protections many profits are made from, again, the government is there with the systems and infrastructure that make it all available and affordable. Unless your existing building was not on a street, not served by water or sewer, hires the illiterate, serves the illiterate and has no local employees, yes, you benefit from the government and the services we ALL pay for.
If you had ears willing to hear, Obama has ALWAYS applauded the individual initiative you and other business owners exhibit. Unless you have not been very good at it, you also reap rewards from that initiative. Unless you share the profits equally with your employees, you also reaped the largest rewards for that risk. That is how it works and for many, though not all, it works well. But you did not do it with no help or back up from the government because that is not the system we have.
Excuse me if I don’t bow to your liberal/marxist idol and your uneducated drivel does not bother me one iota and you calling me a racist makes me laugh. Just look up the term ‘racist” in your dictionary and behold…a picture of Al Sharpton, Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, Black Panthers, and the biggest race baiter of all….. Oblamer. Cold n P you will be blubbering when Romney takes away your SNAP card, you know what that means, no more selling for crack, no more Colt45, no more ho’s. Get a life bro, better yet…get a damn job parasite!
The rest of the column won’t display on the mobile site. Please fix, sounds interesting.
Frank’s underwear is brown. In spots, I mean.
Yikes! Based on his comments, Dan’s thong must be riding extra high today…
I just saw a picture of Oblammer wearing some underwear that an Olympian sent him that had been photo shopped to show a rippled muscular 6 pack and a potato in his drawers to enhance the size. Gee, what a narcisstic twerp. The only thing that they didn’t change were those chimp ears.
Re: Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 22, 2012 @ 6:51 pm
Well done, Sandi.
FWIIW, I started a comment on infrastructure.
Then I remembered the old saw about leading a horse to water and deleted it before posting.
Hey Dan, Frank’s underwear is a hoot, It would be like going 120mph and slammimg on the brakes creating a skid mark from the FRUIT OF THE LOOM label all the way down to the crotch. GOOD REMARK!
Jeff, these lemmings don’t have a clue, man! They will, brother they will. Why should they be concerned, it’s their children and theirs that will suffer the consequences. Like talking to a wall.
It really is nice to have a smart man in the White House. It really is a shame that people don’t give him a tenth of the credit they gave GW Bush. And Bush nominated Harriet Myers for the Supreme Court! I mean, come on.
gee, dano, you said you wouldn’t tell. i also have to say that el rushbo has a better and more mature sense of humor than you do, as your’s is pretty childish, although you are right up there with him regarding being a one-sided “opinion” journalist. nothing more, nothing less, except he knows what success is. keep trying…, and please, tell your readers how gov’mint intervention on behalf of business helped Gainsboro, like it did with the city market building, et al. you DO have a slanted opinion about that don’t you?
Ken Taylor, seriously….crawl back under your outhouse and shut the heck up. I cannot wait to see you people implode when Obama wins again. Even better, maybe we’ll get lucky and you and those like you will head out and infest some other godforsaken country, but I doubt it.
37.”…I don’t have enough time to pick you stupid rant line by line because of church…..”–Comment by Ken Taylor
Ken Taylor, where do you go to church? If you can spew vitriol like you have here, and praise the Lord with a clear conscious, I want to go there!
Unlike your blanket judgement of all liberals, I won’t judge all Christians by your behavior.
Hey, if all of that red faced, ranting and insults makes you feel better, have at it, pal.
It ain’t going to change a thing, though.
You might not like Dan Casey, but you must admit, he doesn’t censor many posts, obviously.
For all the conservative and right-wing republicans criticizing the President for speaking the truth – that businesses have often relied on others, including the federal government in their quest for success – this is just one of many accounts of how Romney utilized the government’s “help” in making his company successful:
In Oct 1993, Bain Capital reviewed and then decided to become the major stockholders in a Kansas steel mill, Worldwide Grinding Systems, which had been in operation since 1888. Less than 10 years later, under Bain management, the plant was “padlocked and some 750 people lost their jobs. Workers were denied severance pay and health insurance they’d been promised, and their pension benefits were cut by as much as $400 a month.
…a federal insurance agency had to pony up $44 million to bail out the company’s underfunded pension plan. Nevertheless Bain profited on the deal, receiving $12 million on it $8 million initial investment and at least $4.5 million in consulting fees.”
graphics.thomsonreuters.com/11/12/Kansas_City_Steel.pdf
Guess who was stuck with a bill for $44 million so Romney/Bain could walk away with no losses, only huge profits? Answer – the federal government, and by extension, the American taxpayers. So the motto of this story is: EVEN Willard Romney, who wants government out of the business sector, really doesn’t. It makes a good campaign slogan but Romney dipped with both hands into the government’s coffers to bail him out and then walked away with $ millions in profits
This has been another installment in the saga of the republican right’s HYPOCRISY.
Frank,
Rush also has a younger fourth wife than me too. Your point?
johnny@103
Thanks for proving my point. Redneck ignorant racist hatred will rear its ugly head every time.
As for Ken Taylor,you labeling anything anybody posts as uneducated drivel is about as upside down as the world gets. You came on here spewing redneck racist crap from the first paragraph you puked. My suggestion to you is to go back out to your two seater outhouse and spray it down good before the words you keep dragging out of it catch the damn thing on fire. That church you claim to be going to must be affiliated with that great southern religious orgaqnization—-the KKK.
Sooo, the government giving “incentives” in the form of “tax credits” to businesses is good? Businesses thrive when they receive tax credits and we all do better? Are not tax credits just freedom from having to pay taxes? I guess Dan would argue then that reducing taxes is good? Welcome to the conservative fold, Dan! Or is Dan really saying “corporate welfare” is good? I’m having a hard time applying logic to this newspaper article. I only read Roanoke newspaper on Sundys, but I’m saving the “Obama in Roanoke” issue of the Roanoke Times in a box along with a couple of 8 track tapes and a rotary dial phone.
You may believe you did it all on your own, but the roads that allow access and product to be conveyed came from ALL of us.
Not really, when half the citizenry pays no federal or state taxes or local real estate taxes. And the very same wealthy business owners paid nearly all the bill for those roads. Why do you keep pretending the lazy-ass OWS dirtbag sponges had anything to do with anything?
Ken Taylor, I hope you have been drinking heavily today. At least that would help to explain your behavior.
hey ken taylor, i bet you wear dano’s used thongs.
Oh Dave, you are always playing the victim.
Dan, my only point about el rushbo and you is, you both appear to be “opinion” journalist cut from the same swatch of cloth, the only professional differences being, in my opinion, are that he has a more mature sense of humer, and is not having to do what he does for a living for a rag like the RTs.
seriously, Dan, underwear?
Dave,
Just to respond to your punch-line at the end of your last rant…The KKK was started by and endorsed by Democrats, ever since the first grand wizard of the KKK was honored at the 1868 Democratic National Convention. From then on, the KKK essentially became the militant wing of the Democrat Party, and the Klan played a prominent role in Democrat Party politics. Truth hurts. So, before you start flailing about with the KKK, let’s not forget those pesky facts…
Wow today was the first day I posted on RT and must say I am surprised by what poor etiquette and lack of dialogue/progress I’m seeing. I have yet to see one solid response to the point that my myself (#41) and others (like # 4) made, which was very simple: The foundation of this country, aside from Christianity, is business. THEN and ONLY THEN does government have the revenue (via taxpayer money) to even exist. What is so hard to understand about this? The prez made it sound like its the other way around, when its really not, and therein lies the problem.
I think we all owe it to ourselves not to turn this into a name-calling hate fest. Unfortunately the “objective journalist” running this thing himself isnt above indulging himself. And any “Christian” calling somebody else a “worthless soul” is hardly Christlike and should be ashamed. Another thing I keep reading is the assumption that myself and others love Romney, or are card-carrying members of the republican party. Not true at all. I think Romney is the lesser of two evils; I think Bush was basically a socialist and aside from his buffoonery this is why we didnt like him — he got involved in stuff he had no business doing. That’s big government for ya.
This thread is a perfect example of why I enjoy John Wilburn’s and Dave Hick’s posts so much. You guys are pretty much the only conservatives whose comments don’t conjure up images of a bunch of hate filled slack jawed rednecks loading diesel fuel and fertilizer in the back of a rented U Haul.
I’m probably the last guy on the board to comment on civility but you two represent conservative causes with honor and dignity. The rest of you mouth breathers could learn a lot from these two gentleman.
Also enjoy J.M. White and Michael Howdyshell. Big Momma used to be a voice of reason but God knows what’s gotten into her/him lately (gender confusion maybe?). Hell, I pretty much enjoy reading any conservative with a functional command of their native tongue; it’s such a rarity nowadays. Bill Buckley would be ashamed of you hayseeds. Most of you clowns are drowning in your own hate infused bile and are too stupid to realize it.
“Cold n P says:
Watcha gonna do when Obama wins in November you bunch of wingnut teabagging SOBs?
I’ll tell you something. You goppers who worship at the alter of Grover Norquist think you can bully your way to victory in November, It’s ain’t happening. The way to beat you guys is exactly how Obama is doing it. Underlining the lying, cheatin’ scumbag you are running for president.
If that means getting in the gutter with you hatemongers, then so be it. You ain’t taking over MY country.
Posted on July 22nd, 2012″
Well said, Cold. Sometimes you gotta sink to their level because it’s the only level they can function on and understand. They’re incapable of rising to a higher level intellectually.
Ken Taylor is most likely a WBC member. He sure sounds like an inbred religious freak.
JB, Whete in the world did you get the (mistaken) impression I’m “objective?” I’m not objective, nor have I claimed to be. I’m subjective as hell.
Frank:
123.”hey ken taylor, i bet you wear dano’s used thongs.”
Yeah, on his face for an air filter…
Let’s all give Ken Taylor a hand! He’s managed to give Christianity a bad name, make Suzie look realtively respectable, and pammala like less of a racist by comparison. That could not have been easy to do in a day!
As I’ve said before, I’m sincerely glad Dan does not censor ignorant and racist posts. We all need to be reminded from time to time of the Ken Taylors that walk among us.
I sit here watching the coverage of the prayer vigil from Aurora, Colorado. I didn’t hear a single “prayer for a worthless soul”. There were prayers that we rise above the hatred that fueled that terrible event. I have been appalled to read some of the comments from self-described Christians in posts on this thread. They don’t represent the Christianity in which I find comfort and belief.
Steve C
“…hate filled slack jawed rednecks loading diesel fuel and fertilizer in the back of a rented U Haul….The rest of you mouth breathers…Hell, I pretty much enjoy reading any conservative with a functional command of their native tongue…”
Even when he cracks on me occasionally, I can’t deny the blog is a lot more fun and colorful when Steve C is around. His comments sometimes make people need a seatbelt.
When I first came here, Dan was a lot more middle-of-the-road. He’s even called himself a conservative, if you can believe that. He also spoke out far less often about his politics. In the early days this wasn’t even a political blog like it is now. In fact it wasn’t much of a blog at all.
You guys are pretty much the only conservatives….
These two clowns don’t even call themselves conservatives.
Moron.
#96 “I guess that makes Dan a troll.”
Wrong for 156,893rd time, suzie. Dan didn’t make up lies, change the parameters or simply post about something other than the topic JUST to get a reaction. That’s your specialty.
Wow today was the first day I posted on RT and must say I am surprised by what poor etiquette and lack of dialogue/progress I’m seeing.
Welcome to the world of liberals, JB.
#130.”JB, Whete in the world did you get the (mistaken) impression I’m “objective?” I’m not objective, nor have I claimed to be. I’m subjective as hell.”–Comment by Dan Casey — July 22, 2012 @ 10:05 pm
Wow, Dan just came right out with it in this post. We all know subjective “journalists” like Dan Casey, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck, aren’t to be taken seriously. At least Dan admits it. He’s basically just an “entertainer.” Just a hack, and he ADMITS it. This reminds me of a quote from a wise man I once knew: “The half-truth is more palatable and harder to discern than the outright lie, especially when spooned with the syrup of scholarly prose.”
This has been great.
Cheers.
#128 You know, Steve C, you’re right in that BM represents one of the more mysterious transformations on the blog. I’ve often wondered whether somebody else in the household took over the name, particularly given the bizarre gender identity confusion.
SteveC can definitely turn a colorful phrase. He livens up the joint.
JB, I’d say your initial premise about the foundation of this country being “business” and “Xianity”. Ergo, no response. You’re wrong about that, sorry. Our country was founded on much greater stuff than that.
#135,
“ These two clowns don’t even call themselves conservatives.
Moron.”
Comment by Suzie — July 22, 2012 @ 10:53 pm
Case dismissed. Next?
Sorry, the first sentence of my last post should end with “is incorrect”. Posting with an iPad has some pitfalls.
Suzie:
“These two clowns don’t even call themselves conservatives.
Moron.”
Suzie, who’s the bigger moron? Steve C for mislabeling me as a conservative or you for being clueless as to what a libertarian is, refusing to answer “What all keeps one out of heaven and are you going”, “Do you tithe on the gross or net?”, or “Was Jesus white?”
Why don’t you go down to the Golden Corral and fap to a few Tim Tebow pictures while you wait for fresh rolls to come out.
matt@126
And let’s not forget that all that changed in the 1960′s and 1970′s when the Democrats woke up and became the party that champions the equalioty and dignity of all people of all origins. Meanwhile, the swamp rats of the racist fear mongering groups like the KKK jumped ship and switched to the Republican Party. Therethey were welcomed with open arms by the Nixon southern strategy. And theirt influence has grown so powerful within that party that they now domnate its agenda.
Dan displays the same double standards that have made Rush Limbaugh famous. One day he says Mitt Romney’s wife’s “you people” remark, which was directed at a reporter, really was an insult directed at all Americans (especially poor ones). The next day he does backflips to defend/spin a remark by the president which any fair-minded/non-partisan person would see as an insult to business owners. So we are to believe that spin from the right is sleazy, but spin from Dan is somehow a noble attempt to set the record straight. God forbid he hold both political parties and candidates to one standard.
Frank, Time to go toe to toe with you sick bullies. Yuck it up pea brain. If you think you can come on this blog and go unchallenged and spread lies and bull crap. Think again. I’m up for the job. Bring it you disgusting piece of vile RW zombie.
You’re a real mental giant. Ha!
<em< He livens up the joint
“Joint” being the operative word with Steve C.
146
Great post, Wilbert.
And Bush nominated Harriet Myers for the Supreme Court! I mean, come on.
Harriet Miers was actually a brilliantly conceived diversion to get Alito on the court. And it worked. Alito got confirmed without a whimper.
But even if you thought Miers was bad, look at the two embarrassments Idiot Boy has put on the court; The stubby-fingered softball player who doesn’t like men was never even a judge.
On the subject of objectivity, Dan is squarely not objective, a fact he has always acknowledged and embraced. Dan’s column is not where you want to be for objectiive reporting, but then, I don’t know where to tell you to seek such reporting. Unfortunately, objectivity is all but extinct in our political discourse. Lt. Governor Bolling recently observed that any objective person woukd have to agree President Obama is a failure and those thinking otherwise should seek counseling. The subjectivity in that statement is alternately sad and disappointing. In my view, one must be able to understand equally two opposing views to approach objectvity. Not much of that here, but I don’t come here looking for objective analysis. I come here looking for unvarnished opinion. Dan’s thoughtful columns (don’t always agree with Dan) is a great catalyst for that. The thoughtful posters here persevere in expressing their opinions. The less thoughtful devolve into insults. Lessons to be learned from all.
Ken Taylor, you have to take your lithium EVERY day, pal. If you’re out of pills, the doctor will be in this morning and refill it for you. In the meantime, call your pastor and hope he doesn’t have caller ID.
What’s with all this “hate and racism” crap? Don’t ALL of you think these terms are a little childish and antagonistic just b/c you all can’t agree on a damn thing? The Obumma supporters always claim this crap. I don’t care what color of skin this person has, what I care about is the future of this country. Obumma simply isn’t the man for the job. Perhaps he should get a little “help” from someone who can teach him how to tie his shoes properly. I suppose this post is to be considered what….racist? Gimme a break, that card is getting very crumpled and worn out.
JB, I don’t agree that it is ibvious that business came first and government grew fro there. Don’t think it is that simple. I believe President Obama was asserting that business and government work hand-in-hand to improve commerce and the standard of living. I take that to mean that the relationship is sometimes 50/50, sometimes 60/40, sometimes 30/70. Left unregulated and unprotected, business consumes itself through the blind pursuit of profit above all else. In my view, we see evidence of that in today’s business world, and without government oversight and regulation, we would likely find ourselves in a “plutonomy,” a world run by and for the very rich. Personally, I think President Obama has done a poor job of reigning in Wall Street abuses. Commerce is not an all or nothing proposition. It can neither be unregulated nor over-regulated. There has to be a flexible middle ground, and for my money, neither party is showing the cajones needed to do what needs doing.
Glad you took notice , Dave….Oh, lets see……Oh, yes..Bill Clinton harping on the achievements of Robert Byrd, an honored member of the KKK for years and before his demise, a member of the hypocritical…er, ah..I mean the Demoocratic party. Dave , my ignoant boy, you are as racist as anyone on this thread….You hate anyone who doesn`t believe exactly the way you and the rest of the liberals think…your way, or the highway, huh ?….I hope you all get an opportunity to take in the new movie by Rev. C.L. Bryant `Runaway Slave`…just depicts how more and more African Americans and inner-city whites are finally realizing that the Democratic party is designed to dumb them down, keep them down,,,and they are getting dammned sick of it….Its about time !!!! Dan…still no answer on who is responsible for the Black Panthers ?? Karl Rove……OR…..James O` Keefe ? ECONOMY,ECONOMY,ECONOMY…… ECCLESIASTES 10:2…The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. 10:3…Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everybody how stupid he is.
I’m glad I was busy this weekend and avoided this cesspool…the gun show yesterday was a far more enjoyable use of my time.
What, panty-waist Gdumbass….you actually think I fight with gloves on …can`t stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen! Or did I OFFEND you ? Screw your political correctness……Lets offend everyone(in hopes of refurbishing some long-lost spines).
@John Wilburn – “…fap to a few Tim Tebow pictures…” Holy cow that cracks me completely up. Now I’m thinking you are also an online gamer, just saying. But thanks for the morning laugh.
On a serious note, this whole thread is depressing. People just do not want to have a rational debate about the issues facing this country. They just want to screech.
It’s understandable that Dan defends the President because he gets paid to do it. The RT is a Democrat-controlled newspaper. If Dan were to criticize a Democrat President, he would be looking for a job.
His best hope would be that Romney win the election so he can criticize the White House again.
Now that we’ve established without question that Obama doesn’t hate small business and that the right is purposely taking him out of context in order to distract, let’s go back to what Romney is hiding in those tax returns and the damage he helped visit on the country at Bain.
Dave, your lack of historical knowledge has you playing revisionist history. You specify the 1960s and 1970s was when Dems all the sudden stopped being racist fear mongering fools after nearly 100 years. Except for that whole pesky Civil Rights thingy, in 1964, that large portions of Dems voted against. Heck, Al Gore Sr led a filibuster against it. And then, Dems continued to elect Robert Byrd, but who cares about a little bit of time spent in the KKK, right? LOL! You keep making things up to help yourself feel better, buddy. Whatever helps you sleep…
Who the #*&@# do you think pays for the infrastructure which businesses use to thrive? Cetainly not government, which produces nothing and has no money to pay for anything except that which it confiscates from the taxpayers. Fact is, businesses and high earners pay most of the money used to fund these things which Obama would like us to believe come from the government. Other than votes for Democrats, parasitic entitlement folks certainly don’t produce or contribute much.
You know you have a real winner of a column when you start out talking about peoples underwear. And the only response I can get from Kristen is “RandalK…are you talking about the Wheel of Fortune guy?” I feel so discredited.
I don’t want to piss you off, Dan. If you start talking about my underwear, it will force me to have that dreaded conversation with you that I had with my daughters.
Y’all need to give this one up. It was a gaffe of monumental proportions, and it happened in Roanoke. When Cold n P reaches out in November, I wonder if he will be wearing all black and a gas mask?
11
You are absolutely correct.
Dan and all the other liberal media folks are showing us exactly how big of a mistake Obama made. They are breathless. Dan is so frustrated he can’t help but mock and insult people that disagree with him.
Libs…Obama messed up. He spoke his mind. His collectivist, statist ideology slipped out.
He needs his teleprompter back.
What was it…like 3 days without it? LOL!
He’s a Nobel prize winning GENIUS folks!
After reading many of the above comments, I have a question. The Obama supporters take many quotes out of context, such as Romney saying “I’m not worried about the poor” and Rush Limbaugh saying “I hope this president doesn’t succeed”. Both were shoved down our throats by the left-wing media. These quotes were completely taken out of context. However, Nobama was NOT taken out of context. He actually believes in the government as the solution to every problem. He has previously never held a real job and doesn’t understand personal responsibility. Also, I don’t ever hear much about why Obama supporters actually support him. Is it the high unemployment, high debt, high deficits, all the food stamps he’s handing out, high gas prices, the teleprompter? I don’t get it. He took office and had democratic control of the Congress and Senate for 2 years, and still accomplished nothing.
THIS is why Dan and the other Leftists media Obama cheerleaders are spinning SO hard.
“75% of Americans Believe Small Business Owners Did It Themselves–Rasmussen”
3 out of 4!
WOW…I’m no political guru, but that gives me the impression that the people don’t agree with Obama’s STATIST ideology.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/23/Oh-Yes-We-Did-3-Out-of-4-Americans-Believe-Small-Business-Owners-Did-It-Themselves-Rasmussen
Obama needs his teleprompter back.
When did `WE` establish that Odumbass likes small businesses ? 24 million Americans would probably disagree…Lets do take a look at Romneys tax returns..who cares what he made..it has no bearing other than to distract…While we`re veiwing them, lets all take a peek at Odumbasses College records…..ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY….THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DISTRACT YOU FROM PAYING ATTENTION TO….24 MILLION people out of work because of this moron, obama…..ECONOMY….breathe it, eat it, sleep it, and never forget it…this CLOWN is driving this Country into the ground….just as he wants ! Just as he planned !
#156 John…Hope you made some good purchases…looks like you`re back in the cesspool, though… But,nothing like a good `ol screeching !
Wow, a ton of responses to your column Dan. I have a question though (for your specifically). What is the purpose of your column? Is it a vehicle for you to espouse your political views, build a following of like-minded fellows along with detractors? I am just curious, after reading your posts…you do not seem to be “middle of the road” anything but left leaning all of the way. That’s not a problem for me, I just wonder how this justifies a column? Do you have a counter-point columnist at the paper to present “rants” from a different point of view? I think it would balance things out and make things interesting. Who do I need to see regarding a freelance column as outlined above?
Thanks Dan, I am looking forward to your response.
#157 Umm, Dolto, you might think about taking those “weapons” of your out to have them sharpened a little. Illiteracy and calling people something as cliched and homophobic as “panty waist” are pretty telling.
What? Dan speechless? Not at work? Must be looking for another lib jibe for us all. What an imbecile!
This thread proves beyond doubt that the right wing is incapable of rational discussion or civil debate. Wow!
Thanks Shrillary!
“Less than a decade later, the mill was padlocked and some 750 people lost their jobs. Workers were denied the severance pay and health insurance they’d been promised, and their pension benefits were cut by as much as $400 a month.
What’s more, a federal government insurance agency had to pony up $44 million to bail out the company’s underfunded pension plan. Nevertheless, Bain profited on the deal, receiving $12 million on its $8 million initial investment and at least $4.5 million in consulting fees.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/us-campaign-romney-bailout-idUSTRE8050LL20120106
Businesses exist solely to do business.
In order to do business, you need customers.
Business needs to get its products/services to its customers.
This is done through highways, both terrestrial and informational.
Many, if not all, of these highways are subsidized by federal and local governmental funding.
Funding is provided by taxpayers.
Some taxpayers pay few taxes and some pay many, but everyone, including the business pays.
Since business depends on its customers, the ratio paid by either side is irrelevant.
Without customers, businesses die.
NOBODY builds a successful business alone. NOBODY.
Any questions?
Henry, do you whine about FlmiFlambaugh Freepers, Drudge, Breitbart, (and a million other right wing hate mongers) getting paid to attack the President the way you do about Dan supposedly “defending” him? No, of course not. When they agree with your hate, they are professional journalists of the highest caliber and when they don’t they are low rent hacks. You people are so twisted and transparent. Your hate has warped whatever sense you may have once possessed. You have laid down with dogs too long.
David in Salem, we ALL pay for the things that benefit business and our society, that is how we decided it would be a long time ago.
And for those too ignorant to know better, ALL of us pay some form of taxes, not everything is done with the confiscated income taxes. That the business too contributes is also fair and part of the process. They cannot fund their own, but they help us all to fund it together.
The right wing has turned this into an anti-business meme for their own purposes, but it is not true.
Romney et al has fed at the trough as well. See above and google more for yourself. If you think he will “stop it” you are dreaming.
Be on the higher ground before you start preaching, or just resort to insults and lies like your partners here. The right wing is sure covered in some glory here.
I’d love to see the state of affairs if taxpayers directly took care of the infrastructure in which businesses use. Can you see it now? 2 million different standards all trying to work together.
Time to take a step back and look at the big picture. We pay for services, but there still has to be organization. Otherwise half the idiots in rural America would just stick with gravel interstates.
hey coldnp, was there something i said which you don’t agree with?
I read a great article this weekend that the conservatives on the blog might be interested in. You can check it out here:
http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2012/07/18/the-ultimate-takedown-of-obamas-you-didnt-build-that-speech/?singlepage=true
The comments are great too.
That comment seems to have been a “zinger” for Obama. I believe that since that statement, Obama has declined in the polls while Romney has risen.
Carry on Obama.
Now THIS is too funny and ironic!! Does the hypocrisy of the Republicans ever end…?
ROMNEY TO OLYMPIANS: ‘YOU DIDN’T GET HERE SOLELY ON YOUR OWN’
“You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power,” said Romney, who on Friday will attend the Opening Ceremonies of this year’s Summer Olympics. “For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities. All right! [pumps fist].”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12904508-romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own?lite?ocid=twitter
Who is going to “help” when The President and you liberals that support his policies bankrupt the nation? Words mean things. The president was expressing his progresive worldview. Government can spend your money better than you can. Take from the rich and give to the poor. It’s the whole Robin Hood thing.
It’s hilarious that the very infrastructure the President talks about is crumbling beneath our tires so to speak in large part due to the policies, both past and present, of his progessive thinking comrades.
FORWARD in the wrong direction is a very bad thing.
You are right, David, taxpayers pay for infrastructure because it behooves us to do so. Local, state, and federal governments are the conduits for the commons and the regulations that protect us all. Even the “parasitic entitlement folks” contribute through purchasing the goods and services offered by businesses. It is a symbiotic relationship: without one the other would not thrive. You may cast it as an adversarial relationship – “… no money for anything except that which it confiscates from the taxpayers” – but I don’t see it that way. I am glad to pay my share so that I can benefit from the services offered by private business and government entities. Imagine if no one paid any taxes from today forward. What would be the impact? I value the fact that my water is reasonably clean; that my food is reasonably safe; and that my trash is disposed of reasonably well. But that is just me …
Frank, lighten up dude. It was a silly joke, that was no less silly than your demand that my column include Gainsboro and all the govt money spent there.
Couldn’t resist adding a television ad from Obama himself…the one where he claims Romney is lying about what he said in Roanoke, then shows the video of Obama saying those exact words. This is RICH!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z-z-U57BaSc
Carry on Obama.
I think every column Dan ever writes for the Roanoke Times, from now on, should come with the heading, from Dan’s own words on this blog:
“Whete in the world did you get the (mistaken) impression I’m “objective?” I’m not objective, nor have I claimed to be. I’m subjective as hell.”–Dan Casey
Just so everyone out there who happens to accidently run across his rubbish knows that they are merely dealing with a Rush Limbaugh type of “entertainer” and not a journalist.
There are people on this thread that make SuzieQ look good. I mean that sincerely, SuzieQ, but I could change my mind at any moment so don’t push me.
RandallK…sorry to be so disappointing. I promise to be meaner next time.
JM White does a perfect job explaining. I don’t know how the assumption is that help has to come from the government. It’s typical RW default dogma.
Ken Taylor, “your uneducated drivel does not bother me one iota” either but if you have indeed signed your own name and own the comments you have made here, it might behoove your future to know that many more people read these threads than just the ones that comment. Dan consistently has high ratings, many of us because we love him and many to see the right wing mud wallow that is always guaranteed. Naturally I realize a word to the wise is wasted on you.
Sharon N, welcome back!
Re: Comment by Shrillary — July 23, 2012 @ 1:04 pm
Outstanding!!
Does this sound vaguely familiar?
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/23/565491/romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own/
will, if I got to spend my money the way I wanted, rest assured I wouldn’t spend one stinking penny on a bomb, or bomber, or drone, or any of the military toys the right is so besotted with. You can thank god the government takes our tax money and spends it for us, because there is a lot of crap they spend money on I wouldn’t waste a cent on.
the government has no money to help anyone unless it comes from taxes, taxes come from us..WE DID BUILT IT STUPID
Indeed. Welcome Back Sharon!
#179 Good lord, how dare Romney suggest that Olympic athletes didn’t do it on their own. We need to go into attack mode!! Fire up some commercials!!
#191 “we did BUILT it stupid”? Speaking of stupid. PH is going to have to crank up the efforts to get that diploma back from you.
Seriously matt, OCD much? You are a dog with a bone and you have already been proven wrong multiple times. We are sorry that Dan (or most columnists) does not meet your twisted definition of journalist, but move on. I agree that FlimFlambaugh and Glen Beck are hate mongering entertainers but Dan Casey, George Will, William F. Buckley, Leonard Pitts, John Long and many others remain journalists and columnists. Whether you like it or not is not relevant.
Kristen–It wasn’t anger I was trying to prompt, it was intelligent debate. I don’t know if you’re even capable. Btw, I dig the emoticons.
@191 pammala said “WE DID BUILT IT STUPID”
Just worth a second look at that fabulously articulated thought. Enjoy.
Shrillary #179, you rock girl! Thanks for the laugh.
I’ve been reading through these comments, although admittedly not every single word, but what surprises me is that not one of the Christians has acknowledged God’s role in their success.
Kristen:
190.”will, if I got to spend my money the way I wanted, rest assured I wouldn’t spend one stinking penny on a bomb, or bomber, or drone, or any of the military toys the right is so besotted with.”
Really? What kind of military would Emporer Kristen fund? Do we not need drones? This is a very serious question; I would appreciate your idea of specifically how much and what kind of military equipment we need.
dan, i fail to be convinced that your witticism about my underwear bears anything near an appropriate response to my mention of Gainsboro. as i said initially, your very large column listed the facts (which i don’t dispute) on one side of the issue…and i chose to note that there is “another side to the story”…and presented 3 examples that i could think of right off. i understand that your columns have no chance of being balanced, just like we shouldn’t expect the programs of el rushbo, glenn beck, etc. to be balanced either.
i do appreciate an earlier post from you to that earlier that post, which indicated that you couldn’t include Gainsboro in your 30 inch column “due to lack of space”…or something close to that. i can only hope that your employer will give you more column inches for your next big story….but if you get it, i suspect you’ll probably simply add more stuff on your own pile.
gotta go, got laundry to do.
Right… Romney said… “Didn’t get here solely on your own.” President Obama said, “you didn’t build that. Someone else made that happen”
See where there is the individual in Romney’s but not the Presidents?
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Romney said it more eloquently. Big difference in context. As I’ve stated, it was the President made a big mistake.
Kristen @2:18 “You can thank god the government takes our tax money and spends it for us, because there is a lot of crap they spend money on I wouldn’t waste a cent on”.
You madam are the quintessential poster sheep for the progressives’ arguments that we all need government to take care of us.
Thank you for proving my point.
Buy the way you left off abortion, spring break for your 13 year old daughter and 12 of her closest friends to Mexico, tax payer funded “stimulus” monies to “green energy” wasted or shipped out of the country, etc.
And FYI – One of the original purposes for the federal government was to provide for the common defense, another was to assure the free flow of commerce between the states. There never was original intent for the federal government to control such things as education, welfare, social services, or healthcare. Just to name a few.
And BTW I do not thank God or Jerry Lee Lewis fot the government taking ANYTHING from me.
Pammala, you’re right, and the magic word in your statement is “we.”
“The point is, is that when WE succeed, WE succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because WE do things together.”
Do you agree with that statement? Or, do you disagree with yourself?
Another moment to capture – Romney touts a “self made” man and his business, only to find the guy got government $$ to fund his start-up business..hahahahahahah
“Romney’s Obama Attack Gets Sidetracked”
““This is not the result of government,” Romney told reporters, referring to Middlesex Truck & Coach after he toured the shop. “This is the result of people who take risk, who have dreams, who build for themselves and for their families.”
Company owner Brian Maloney, 69, agreed with Romney’s assessment. “I take umbrage at the suggestion that people don’t start and build businesses,” Maloney said.
AND THEN, wait for it…
“But in an interview with Boston-based reporter Jon Keller of WBZ-TV, Maloney acknowledged that his business received some government help. “The only way I was able to come here, because I had no money, was with an industrial-revenue bond,” Maloney said in the interview. Industrial-revenue bonds are typically issued by local and state governments to attract new business to an area.”
http://nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/romney-s-obama-attack-gets-sidetracked-20120719
You can’t make this stuff up. All this anti-government rhetoric by a guy who took advantage of every “government” loophole and “government bailout” while at Bain and even while “presiding” over the Salt Lake City Olympics. Corporations, small businesses, and individuals benefit in this country from government involvement in myriad ways, no matter how much the republican right might hate it or rail for “limited government.”
Oil subsidies. Coal subsidies. Farm subsidies. Hospital subsidies. Policing of ports. Small business loans. Tax rebates and incentives for businesses, and oh yeah, infrastructure.
Hypocrisy – during all Romney’s campaign stops.
#199 I think god is pretty tied up helping Tim Tebow and a few other select athletes, 13.
RandallK, I’ve decided to substitute intelligent debate with emoticons. Hopefully that won’t make you
.
I was serious about Pat Sajak. He really weighed in on this?
JohnWilburn, I’m not talking about me being Empress, although it’s not a bad scenario. I’m talking about the fact that the government dunning us for taxes allows it to spend it as our elected officials (us) see fit. I bet there are people out there if, given the chance to spend their tax money as they choose, would not give a penny to social programs. Would you be as incredulous about that?
And in my world, you need precious little military spending because you don’t go blundering around the world bombing, invading, and occupying.
Really RandalK? Your opening sentence is “I gotta be honest, my big fear when a President comes to town is that he gets out alive so Roanoke won’t be remembered like Dallas was.” And you contend you came here for “intelligent debate”? No sir, not buying that lie.
Re: Comment by Kristen — July 23, 2012 @ 2:18 pm
“Yes, making mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep” – Rudyard Kipling
Or other disputed versions of “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
Or the bumper sticker version of, “If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a Veteran.”
Sleep well, Kristen and thank God you are not in control.
Do I think that every military engagement was wise or needed? No!
Do I think total disarmament (either personal or national) will result in no violence? No!!!!
Re: Comment by 13 Suns — July 23, 2012 @ 2:49 pm
Good observation!
Sometimes what is not said is more revealing that what is said.
Unfortunately Mr. Obama doesn’t seem to understand that the U.S.has stood apart from other countries because it offers better opportunities for success. He doesn’t recognize the importance of personal responsibility and will not admit that some fail because they didn’t apply themselves in school, have a poor work ethic, take too many drugs, etc. In other words their failure is their own fault but Mr. Obama would argue that it is because something is unfair and government must intervene to correct this. None of us live in a vacuum but, in discrediting the importance of personal initiative, Mr. Obama reveals his disdain for those who have succeeded by their own hard work, without government or perhaps even despite government interference.
Will are you unfamiliar with the general welfare clause of the U.S. Constitution?
For those who might be interested in the disputed versions of “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf” might enjoy reading http://tinyurl.com/c23q8vc
FWIIW, I rather like the undisputed Orwellian quote from the essay entitled “Notes on Nationalism” — “Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.”
I’ve read all those bumper stickers and quotes, DaveH, and that’s what they are….bumper stickers and quotes. They do not begin to address the bloated military budget in this country, the drive to reliably USE that military for whatever specious reason, just to justify the expense. I didn’t “mock” anyone or lay blame at the feet of any soldiers, so I don’t see how your comment applies.
This quote, on the other hand, is a little more recent, a little more relevant, and from someone with reason to know.
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense.”
I’m with Ike.
“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.”
I reject this, wholesale. It smacks of the same tone as when people say “Everyone’s a racist…just depends how well you hide it” or some such nonsense. The assumption is that some arbitrary baseline level of violence – or racism – is accepted as a given. Also, battles of quotations don’t interest me much.
#214 I don’t see how ANYBODY can we need such a huge defense budget and keep a straight face while saying it.
“Do you have a counter-point columnist at the paper to present “rants” from a different point of view? I think it would balance things out and make things interesting. Who do I need to see regarding a freelance column as outlined above?”
Comment by Devino — July 23, 2012 @ 11:27 am
In response to your above comment….and by seeing that Lars Hagan drops by to read this blog every once in awhile, I have often wished that he would allow comments on his blog ” The Roanoke Slant.”. I understand that it might take up more time than he wants to devote, but I have envisioned how nice it would be to have another blog that titles some Democratic/Obama statements or actions as “left wing looniness”. as opposed to Dan’s “right wing nonsense” Also, I think it would be nice to have a blog that actually deals with issues that are never mentioned here.
It would also be nice to have a blog where we could share thoughts and information with each other, without the blog being tied up by the regulars attacking the conservatives just because we are conservatives, making silly personal statements, changing the subject, you know, anything as a diversion from actually having to defend their postions.
How about it Mr. Hagan? Have you given any thought to this?
Re: Comment by Kristen — July 23, 2012 @ 3:59 pm
I have no argument with the Ike quote.
However, there is a need for balance — one that is sorely missing at Comment by Kristen — July 23, 2012 @ 2:18 pm
“I wouldn’t spend one stinking penny on a bomb, or bomber, or drone, or any of the military toys.
IMHO, there way too big a gap between not “spend one stinking penny” and the balance such as Ike proposed.
BTW, as I said at Comment by Dave Hicks — July 23, 2012 @ 3:43 pm
“Do I think that every military engagement was wise or needed? No!”
Maybe I should have added “”Do I think that every military procurement is/was wise or needed? No!”
I’m all for moderation and trade-offs. However, I still say that I do not think total disarmament (either personal or national) will result in no violence or maintain peace in our time.
Re: Comment by Sharon N. — July 23, 2012 @ 4:34 pm
“tied up by the regulars attacking the conservatives just because we are conservatives, making silly personal statements, changing the subject, you know, anything as a diversion from actually having to defend their postions.”
———
In case you hadn’t noticed old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) is a “regular” as are a number of other RWers.
.
.
IMHO, there is far too much “making silly personal statements, changing the subject, you know, anything as a diversion from actually having to defend their” positions, personal attacks, undocumented claims, etc on the part of both extreme wings of the political spectrum.
Jeff Doto, make your point w/o name calling. … unless you are not smart enough to do so.
@155: “…the fool lacks sense and shows everybody how stupid he is.”
Or he posts under the name Doto…
DaveH, I was merely speaking of myself and my own priorities, in a world in which, instead of paying taxes, we can pick and choose where that money goes independently. As I said to JohnW, I’m sure many others would love to step up and see every penny of their investment go towards military stuff.
SharonN, Hagen has plenty of time. He’s not interested in having to defend his positions or engage in debate. Considering the stuff he puts on there, I don’t blame him…it would get exhausting.
Saintbridge:
Re: Sure is a lot of racism and pure hatred here today: Mooshell? Omoron? Odumbass? Idiot liberals?…
I agree with you… however you left out:
disgusting piece of vile RW zombie ,hell with the rest of you, obama haters, crazy and stupid, wingnut teabagging SOBs, lying, cheatin’ scumbag you are running for president, ignorant racist underbelly of Roanoke, Redneck ignorant racist, sick bullies, , right wing haters”
Seems a lot of “hatred” from both extremes… glad I am in the middle…
On a more recent note from Kristen, I would only suggest that “in a perfect world” you are correct. If there was no need to protect ourselves from those who continually desire to eliminate us we might have a completely different take on our life and our freedom.
But defense is not the only place that abuse may run rampant. Sandi suggested the “pie” example (no doubt taken from the Rev. Al’s commercial) the only problem is that she does not understand who is really “baking” and who is “eating” the pie. Those who “contribute” are baking the pie, those “take” are eating the pie.
Long story short… when the “bakers” cannot keep up with the “eaters” everyone starves.
I often wish I was not so busy “baking” so that I could keep up with these posts, as they are very entertaining and enjoyable.
Sharon N, start your own blog.
mike o,
The term “Obama haters” is factual. Among others, it applies to pammala and Suzie.
Kristen:
“As I said to JohnW, I’m sure many others would love to step up and see every penny of their investment go towards military stuff.”
Not unless I get to bid on the cool surplus items one day.
mike O:
“I often wish I was not so busy “baking” so that I could keep up with these posts, as they are very entertaining and enjoyable.”
+1
FWIW, Sharon N, I have asked the Roanoke Times to host a “Conservative View” blog for some time. You can request the same yourself here: http://blogs.roanoke.com/refreshRT/
I agree you folks need a place in the area to feed your frenzy as this ain’t it and it ain’t ever gonna be. I would be the first to wish you all bon voyage and happy trails and never, ever darken your “door”, just as I don’t Lars Hagen, FlimFlambaugh or Freepers. The choice to come here is yours so stop whining about the reception the right wing talking points and lies receive. It is not our job or our volition to validate the right wing hate and ignorance we see on display here.
There is a world of difference in debate over substance and the insult fest the right wingers offer. It is beyond sad that none of you even acknowledge the truth.
Mike O, do you seriously expect ANYONE to just pretend we are having a civil discussion with people who use insults like “Mooshell? Omoron? Odumbass? Idiot liberals?…” I am certain many of the right wingers would like us to be tolerant of their hate and bile like it is a legitimate choice for decorum. It is not going to happen. If you (the collective, not you specifically), act and post like a “disgusting piece of vile RW zombie“, it will be met with, to “hell with the rest of you, obama haters, crazy and stupid, wingnut teabagging SOBs” in return.
hey dan, whats the difference between obama haters and bush or reagan haters? for me, i don’t know that i’ve ever hated anyone, but i can certainly say i want obama to be unsuccessful in the un-coming election.
People who understand you don’t have to say anything to and people who don’t understand never will no matter what is said, so never mind.
#218 Sharron N,
By all means, a woman of your stunning intellect should be able to start up and sustain a blog that captivates curiosity of right wingers throughout the valley. Once you get past all the thin air holding you back I’m sure your entrepreneurial spirit, keen wit and business acumen will serve you well on your new venture of planting the seeds of the Kenyan-in-chief’s actual birthright and harvesting the vast yields of democracy that you alone grew.
Here, I’ll hold the door for you. Good luck and God speed! And don’t forget to take suz and pammala with you. Ah, the trifecta of the teabagging troll (suz), Touretts’ tramp (pammy), and the trippin’ torturer of truth (you); what could possibly go wrong?
“IMHO, there is far too much “making silly personal statements, changing the subject, you know, anything as a diversion from actually having to defend their” positions, personal attacks, undocumented claims, etc on the part of both extreme wings of the political spectrum.”
Comment by Dave Hicks — July 23, 2012 @ 5:02 pm
Point taken, and pretty much agreed with. Just saying it would be nice to have a place where “we” could discuss issues that just don’t make it into print at the RT…or on the blogs, and discus THEM, to me it seems somewhat silly to have a column devoted to the (what was it?) WAWA statement that Romney made a month or so ago..and then no one bothered to mention that even Andrea Mitchell was called on the carpet about the “editing” on that. Also, it seemed to happen at the time that the Holder hearings were going on…and of course NOTHING at ALL has been written about that or Fast and Furious on this blog, except perhaps in passing.
Would be nice to dicuss some “real news” for a change.
Thanks for making the suggestion Sandi..I WILL follow it up with a request of my own…and perhaps a few others will too.
Mike O, do you seriously expect ANYONE to just pretend we are having a civil discussion with people who use insults like “Mooshell? Omoron? Odumbass? Idiot liberals?…
I always thought it was pretty juvenile to use names like that, and like FlimFlambaugh, and Pammalala and Screwzie. As much as I really dislike Suzie and think Pammala is hilarious… It is a bit childish, don’t you think?
Don’t you people get tired of the constant back and forth? Haven’t you noticed yet that Debating politics is pointless? If you’re talking to people who share the same views, you’re preaching to the choir. If you are talking to people who have opposing views, you’re yelling at a wall! It does no good! The best you can hope for is to point out where the other person says one thing and acts in contrary to it!
Hey howsyshell, thanks. that was brilliant.
Wow, the haters are out today. Sad.
Comment by Cold n P — July 22, 2012 @ 1:25 pm
Followed by….
Watcha gonna do when Obama wins in November you bunch of wingnut teabagging SOBs?
I’ll tell you something. You goppers who worship at the alter of Grover Norquist think you can bully your way to victory in November, It’s ain’t happening. The way to beat you guys is exactly how Obama is doing it. Underlining the lying, cheatin’ scumbag you are running for president.
If that means getting in the gutter with you hatemongers, then so be it. You ain’t taking over MY country.
Comment by Cold n P — July 22, 2012 @ 5:27 pm
and….
rank, Time to go toe to toe with you sick bullies. Yuck it up pea brain. If you think you can come on this blog and go unchallenged and spread lies and bull crap. Think again. I’m up for the job. Bring it you disgusting piece of vile RW zombie.
You’re a real mental giant. Ha!
Comment by Cold n P — July 23, 2012 @ 5:08 am
Cold,
You are correct. It is sad but you and the “haters” are one in the same.
232.People who understand you don’t have to say anything to and people who don’t understand never will no matter what is said, so never mind.
Comment by Michael A Howsyshell
Therefore, Micheal, the next time one of your boys says, “Daddy I don’t understand”, remember, he never will, and just give up trying to tell him.
Sandi,
LOL… I am a bit afraid of you so, please read the entire post in the positive vein it is intended.
Interestingly enough in your “question” lies the answer.
If you look to your posts you might find an “example” of your quote.
You have made “personal” attacks on the slightest “thought” with which you might disagree. You have done so on my posts but I try not to take it personally.
I realize by now that I might have angered you but let me try to explain.
It is OK if you want to just be shrill, but when you project your hatred on others there is a loss of balance and a disregard for your opinion (I can only speak for myself). Some of your opinions hold some validity, but might be unduly disregarded due to your vitriol.
I try to understand the opposing view, and attempt, in my limited manner, to express my own.
I might use the term “uber lib” or the term “ultra left”, neither of which I find overly offensive; nor do I find the terms “ultra” conservatives or “extreme RW” overly offensive. If one has views that are “ultra” left or “ultra” right it sounds like a very good place to begin a discussion towards the “middle”.
I have many friends on the “left” and we often disagree, but we “discuss” issues and rarely (and occasionally) agree. We share dinner and drink and we go to our own homes with the knowledge that if we should ever be in need each of us would respond.
Actually, I do believe there might be at least a “civil discussion” here on some occasions, and I would hope that Dan agrees (I would also hope that you agree).
I look forward to a post where I can say “I agree with Sandi” (maybe we had a beer last night and she convinced me of my evil ways… (pregnant pause…lol).
But…
Even if we may never agree, I hope that I might never portray Sandi as an “evil” person nor do I wish to be considered the same.
I hope that Michael A Howsyshell’s post is incorrect when he said “ People who understand you don’t have to say anything to and people who don’t understand never will no matter what is said, so never mind”
But I believe he has a very mature perspective, and one that we might all “attempt” to understand”.
Steve C, to help Sharon N furnish her new blog, I’ll offer her the gift a new (door)Matt.
Touché scott #235!
I find it somewhat interesting how Obama steps in a mud hole and the political ads referencing such gain traction with voters. The ads are sticking unlike the continual character attacks from Obama’s camp.
What I find interesting however is the anxiety and sense of obligation felt by the RTs and other liberal puppets to explain to everyone what the President meant by his comments. The RTs have been full speed ahead trying to rationalize the statement. I guess the RTs believes that Roanoke and the voting population around the US is not capable of understanding and forming their own conclusion. Personally I don’t need a newspaper, the editorial board or a columnist to interpret the meaning of a speech or any news event. It is the job of the RTs to report the facts and let the readers form their own opinion.
To continue, you can frame speech anyway you want. The President was right, business owners benefit from roads, teachers etc. But he ignored the individual,their drive,intelligence, hard work, determination, the risk that each takes and a pure will to succeed.
If it is not for such intangible factors of the individual, then why do business in the same downtown fail when others succeed? It comes down to the individual.
Sure to quote the President, there are plenty of smart people, there are plenty who work hard, but not everyone is cut out to own or run a business.
Give the individual credit.
It’s funny how the far right comes in here are spout hate and names, yet when they get called out and given a dose of their own medicine, it’s surprise and shock that they are not welcome on this blog.
I give what I get. If you want to debate, then come with facts and data to back up your ideas instead of just come in blazing with names and hate. I’ll play either way.
#234 Sharron N,
“Would be nice to dicuss some “real news” for a change.”
Gee, hanging out in an echo chamber with two or three other clowns like you discussing birtherism would be about as stimulating as a tab and a half of barbiturates washed down with a 12’er of natty lite. What a hoot that would be…Too bad I’ll have to be watching the paint dry that night.
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
#212 Ah, good old American exceptionalism. Hasn’t really been true for decades now.
#218 Thank goodness none of the right wingers ever do any of that stuff, Sharon N.
BTW, that was sarcasm, Sharon.
BIG MOMMA: “The President was right, business owners benefit from roads, teachers etc. But he ignored the individual,their drive,intelligence, hard work, determination, the risk that each takes and a pure will to succeed.
OBAMA: “The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
BM’s comment shows how desperate the Obama haters are to change and twist what the president actually said, into something they wish he had said. Because, by golly, they think they know in their hearts what the president MEANT.
It’s just inconvenient for them that his words said otherwise.
Sharon N, I suggest you go to Infowars.com for the “real” news.
Here’s one of their current headlines–
“First China, Then The World: UN Uses China As Launchpad For Global One-Child Policy.”
Oh my!
I’ve always said one conservative can dominate a roomful of liberal numbskulls, not only because we’re smarter, but first and foremost because we have truth on our side. So you can see right here what happens when four or five conservative come into a thread; you clowns get destroyed from all sides.
This is only a precursor of what will happen in November.
Scott Brown is running a brilliant ad featuring past Democrats praising our capitalist system and contrasting them with the words of Cherokee Elizabeth Warren and 0bama who basically say the OWS dirtbags started our businesses and should be given a big chunk of our profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oqDIjGsBEP8
Republicans have grabbed a huge advantage by being the first to frame this election. I feel so proud Roanoke was a big part of it.
Right now, the top 10% earn only 45% of the income in this country, but pay 70% of the federal taxes. If you morons are looking for fairness, let’s have the wealthy pay the same percentage as we do
I figure I pay roughly 200 times the taxes Sandi pays. So you know what? I built the business AND the fricking infrastructure.
251 should say “Let’s have the wealthy pay the same percentage as we earn”.
OK, one final thought before I go for my run:
Aside from the travesty done to Penn State as the rabid left got its way with the removal of Paterno’s statue and the sentence worse that the death penalty for PSU football, it is UTTERLY ATROCIOUIS to remove 13 years of Paterno’s victories. That is nothing more than vindictiveness. You remove victories only if someone was cheating and gained an unfair advantage. No one cheated here. Those players and coaches EARNED those 100+ victories. It was done solely to knock Paterno off the #1 all-time perch, and it’s just wrong.
Talk about twisting what was said. You can spin it anyway you like but he said that hardworking and being smart does not matter. No one is responsible for their success so therefore no one can be responsible for failure. We are becoming a socialist country slowly but surely. Everyone gets a participation ribbon!
Steve C,
You’ve commented, now off to slap your wife (and beat your dog)…
All of the RWers here just need to see Dan’s column and the RT’s spin on what Obama said for what it is….an attempt at damage control because they know he screwed up royally. If you need proof of the damage just look at the poll numbers in the Commonwealth. You can all argue till the cows come home about what he said and what he REALLY meant, but Dan’s column is just an admission on how bad it sounded the moment he spit it out and the damage it has done. I’m sure the President sure wishes he could have snatched that statement out of the air before anyone heard it. Take comfort in that and let it ride.
From Andy Bitter’ blog in the Roanoke Times.
“What does being the winningest active coach in Division I football mean to Beamer? “Besides being old …?” he quipped. “It makes you go back and appreciate the people around you. I’ve had really good coaches around me, really good players, a great administration at Virginia Tech that I wouldn’t have been there at a lot of places after a few years. But they hung in there with me.”
http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2012/07/sundays-column-in-roanoke-businesses-got-lots-of-help/
In a sense Frank is a businessman, running a fairly large organization. He probably should have added he has a very loyal customer base. But another case to support the President’s comments.
Everyone knows that I hate the huge long threads but I finally plowed through this one. It is filled with the typical crap that gets slung lately from both sides with the occasional reasonable voice tucked here and there. I would like to point out that everyone, to greater or lesser degrees, likes drama. It’s cathartic. It’s as much a part of our history as a civilization as anything else. To expect this blog to be a drama-free zone would be to wish for its silence and slow decline.
That being said, I take exception to the implication that there is never true debate here. There is. I also object to the suggestion that no one’s point of view is ever, even slightly, nudged one way or the other. Again, if there weren’t challenges to our beliefs here that we found intriguing, the blog traffic would cease. Even if the discussion does nothing more than force us to be more clear in our stances…that is an accomplishment as well.
Furthermore, this is a fascinating and scarey moment in American political history. There is a true philosophical difference being hammered out that will define how our society goes forward for many years to come, in my opinion. It is an important debate and it is a divisive debate, unfortunately. It is bigger than all the singular issues that comprise it. It has to do with how we view ourselves collectively as a nation; or how we view ourselves independantly as members of a nation. Because this is a large philosophical debate, we are mainly hearing only the extreme positions so that the lowest common denominator can get a handle on the big picture.
However, the true big picture needs be drawn out of the middle ground. Neither view is “right” and only a combination of the two will actually make the country stronger. Going one way or the other will weaken our society…further. And I wish that everyone would step back from the far sides of this national discourse and look for compromise in the middle because that is the only solution that will end up being sustainable.
As I stated much earlier, governments came before business and that includes agriculture as a business. Yes there were farmers that farmed for their family, but farming as a business came after government who organized marketplaces. Laws were one of the first necessity or have you not studied your history.
Also, for those of you so interested in capitalism and the rebuilding of downtown businesses, perhaps you should look at all the tax credits, special grants, government loans given before showering all you capitalistic honors on those restructuring and rebuilding downtown. After using or selling all the tax credits, many investors have made money instead of spending money on their downtown investments. Made it on their own?? Please.
I am convinced that even though business and the stock market does better under a democratic President, the Wall Street prefers a GOP candidate because it is much easier to take advantage of government grants, loans, and out and out giveaways by the GOP to the wealthy. They prefer government contracts with no regulation, no red tape, no obligations to fulfill the work with quality and efficiency. You need look no further than the government contracts given under the Bush Administration in Iraq to see what happens under a GOP administration. Who wouldn’t want easy government money to take as you wish. Under the Democratic Administration there are rules to follow, jobs to create, actual work to be done. Under Romney it would be take the cash and run. No regulation, no expectations of quality, no rules, just fraud.
Wow Dan I did not know you were a constitutionalist. The general welfare clause was never intended to give congress unlimited power to tax and spend the country into bankruptcy. This power was granted by the SCOTUS under the threat of FDR to in essence destroy the original intent of the court.Constitutional historians refer to it as the “Revolution of 1937.” The President proposed that for each sitting justice over the age of seventy there be appointed one new Justice to “help them with their case load.” In reality FDR wanted to pack the court with six additional justices willing to declare all of his “must legislation” Constitutional. In order to save the court, Moderate Chief Justice Hughes prevailed on conservative Judge Roberts to cave and go against the constitution. Hughes prevailed on Roberts to desert the Conservative camp, swing over with him and join the three liberals in declaring the social security cases [Steward Machine Co. v. Davis (301 us 548, May 24, 1937)] Constitutional. This Roberts did, and by so doing, took the wind from the sails of the President’s court packing plan. It went back to committee and died. One Administration official called the court’s action, “the switch in time that saved nine.”
This decision said in effect, Congress would no longer be held to enumerated powers but instead could tax and spend for anything; so long as it was for “general welfare.”
But the words “General Welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend; and up until the cases noted above, no court ever so averred.
Justice Roberts, writing in 1951, said in effect: “We voted against the Constitution to save the Court.”
Common sense prevailed as far as federal spending and taxation until the death of JFK. “Ask not what your country can do for you—“ became “come get your hand out and vote for me” beginning with Johnson and “buying votes” and cronyism have been spiraling out of control since then.
The dangerous thing is these policies have bankrupted the nation and the achievers are growing very weary of carrying the load. Let’s hope the next revolution occurs at the ballot box and not in the streets.
Suzie:
“I figure I pay roughly 200 times the taxes Sandi pays. So you know what? I built the business AND the fricking infrastructure.”
Glad you’re doing all of those customers the favor of providing your business. What indespensable, noncompetitive buisness are you in again? Do you own a railroad or something?
Suzie on PSU:
“No one cheated here.”
I guess cheating children out of their innocence is a “tough luck” thing in Suzie’s book.
Steve C, I’ll give you one guess what doormatt beats.
Oh Lord, Suzie is too dumb for words! Even if it was true (and it is not) that “I figure I pay roughly 200 times the taxes Sandi pays”, do you also not realize that there are about 2 million of “me” for every 1 of “you”? And no, you did not pay 200 times the amount the 200 million of us paid. Your taxes are not unfair. You have more, you pay more. I have less, I pay less. It is about as equal as it can get on every level. That is what kills you. You hate fairness and equality and it shows.
I hear what you are saying Mike O. I do not necessarily agree with most of it, but I do understand what you are saying. You want me to treat people with respect and civil debate whether they offer the same or not. You want me to overlook the insults and just discuss the point they believe they are making. You want me to excuse the boorish decorum and concentrate on the validity of what they believe to be true.
Sorry, I had children who were 3 and 4 once upon a time and I did indeed overlook and talk over and ignore their inappropriate behavior. Then I corrected it and they learned to either participate with responsibility or suffer the consequences. I do not tolerate such antics in supposed adults.
After writing earlier that “There never was original intent for the federal government to control such things as education, welfare, social services, or healthcare,” willl has just admitted that:
1) The founding fathers wrote the “general welfare” clause;
2) The Supreme Court has upheld the interpretation of the clause to provide for Social Security, Medicare, etc.
3) But will knows better.
#253 “It was done solely to knock Paterno off the #1 all-time perch…”
And to destroy the Catholic church, right?
I really can’t figure out whether suzie just doesn’t get it, or she’s just making up more stuff to pretend to be outraged about. Pretty sad either way.
#263 It’s particularly amusing when suzie says she’ll switch tax bills with you. But then when you suggest that would be OK if she switches everything, well then suddenly her taxes don’t look so darn bad.
Not that it matters since she’s making up everything anyway.
sandi,
i beg to differ with your overly rosy description about how you treat people on blogs with whom you don’t agree. you earlier called me a liar, and when i requested that you remind me of a single lie that i might have posted, after which we could have THAT issue drive our discussion, you have been strangely silent. in other words, you simply slash and burn, and while you do occasionally present a well posited point or two, for the most part you present yourself as nothing more than a gratuitous “2nd” for dan, and, a windbag.
Dan-
If you call voting against the constitution in order to save the court I suppose you are correct.
Again Justice Roberts, writing in 1951, said in effect: “We voted against the Constitution to save the Court.”
It was never the intent of the founding fathers to take away the power of the states and give it to the federal government in these areas.
I know your indoctrination into the progressive socialist worldview by your educators does not allow you to see that. But the evidence of out of control spending and the escalating dept resulting in a bankrupt economy pays tribute to the wisdom of the founding fathers in not giving congress the power to tax and spend at will.
Only the SCOTUS, under the threat from a liberal democrat president and his cronies in congress to destroy the court, did that. The honest way would have been to follow the procedure to amend the constitution but of course FDR knew that would never fly because it would actually depend on the will of the people.
#253 Suzie, taking those wins away from Penn State won’t mean anything. Everyone knows who won the games. The NCAA sanctions do nothing to punish the guilty, but they do punish the athletes and students at PSU now and they punish the teams scheduled to play PSU in the future.
It has been discussed that the NCAA may lose the major conferences in D-1 football. The major schools and conferences don’t want to share revenue with the other schools. The SEC,PAC10,B12,B10, and ACC are adding schools, championship games, and may eventually drop from the NCAA and make their own rules, their own playoffs, and their own national championship game.
Everyone indeed knows who won those games, VRWC….it’s the guy who ensured the rape of god-only-knows how many little boys.
PSU was incredibly stupid placing its brand one man and then allowing him to put himself in a position to bring the whole thing crashing down on them. I expect the school will spend the next few years trying to unwind Paterno from their mythology, one piece at a time.
And FYI, the NCAA doesn’t have the power or obligation to bring legal charges or enforce criminal law. They can only work with what they have, and for once it’s nice to see them address something other than free tattoos or recruiting perqs….they’re actually involving themselves in something that matters. Really…do we care if USC buys Reggie Bush’s mom a house? So what? Tressell lost his job over a few TATTOOS. Who cares?
Child molestation, on the other hand, is something everyone cares about…except maybe SuzieQ.
253 – Suzie- Done to penalize poor old Joe? Damn right. He used his position to hide child molestation. Removing the victories is most appropriate, they should have taken them all away.
Oh, by the way Dan, I owe you a link…..I actually found it awhile ago, just haven’t commented here since then..so will provide it now.
We were talking about Obama using the excuse that he had a “name” that people were unlikey to vote for. He said this on “The View” on May 15th. When one of the ladies asked him about the race being “tight” against John McCain, and asked if he expected the race to be tight THIS year…..he said “well, with a name like Barack Obama it will always be tight”…..even Barbara Walters asked him how he could say that after almost four years….so, he dropped that line of reasoning and went on to other excuses.
Here’s the link.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-view-campaign-tight-16351835
#271 Kristen, I know the NCAA can’t bring legal charges. My post mentioned sanctions, not criminal charges. I haven’t read much about the Paterno/PSU/Sandusky link, I’m waiting for the CliffsNotes (that’s how it is spelled now) version. I’d like to read a short summary explaining how Paterno/PSU aided Sandusky in his crimes.
Obama has went from a solid 6 point lead over Romney in Va. in early June to a dead heat in a state that he supposedly had in the bag…better stick to the teleprompter the rest of the way there Barak. Now if Romney doesn’t make a Sarah Palin-like choice for VP, there might be some hope for some real change.
Huntersdad, before you jump to the conclusion matt did, it would be best to wait for other polls. If two more show the same dead heat the recent one did, it’s far more like that is the case than it is right now.
Here is why:
The margin of error for the Quinnipiac poll is 2.4 points. As I pointed out to matt, that means it’s JUST AS LIKELY that Obama leads the race by 4.8 points in Virginia as it is that Obama and Romney are tied. (It’s also JUST as likely that Romney is ahead by 4.8, too).
It basically means there’s a 19 in 20 chance that the “true” numbers fall somewhere in that range. And that there’s a 1 in 20 chance they do not.
That’s why, collectively (when they show a clear trend) a bunch of polls are a better indicator than any single one.
#275 Obama had Virginia in the bag, huntersdad? When? Who said. Given the volume of ads and the fact that both have appeared here, neither Obama nor Romney thought so.
Obama doesn’t have Va. in the bag. But Real Clear Politics ALSO lists Nevada, Colorado and Wisconsin as “toss up” states.
Obama does have those in the bag.
Frank, my post got lost, but please define “rosy description”. I don’t believe I offered one. Please show me where I “called [you] a liar”, I do not usually ignore such a challenge and I do not recall the post. I do love to argue and “match wits” and I am not even offended by you calling me a “windbag”.
I was truly surprised Obama won Virginia last time and I will be flabbergasted if he does this time. That is just not the Virginia I know. But I sure would love to be wrong again!
VRWC, I was looking at the Freeh report earlier and I guess that’s the best synopsis out there at this point, but short it’s not.
HuntersDad, here are the facts that Dan refuses to acknowledge. YOU seem to understand what the difference in the polls mean.
“(CNN) – President Barack Obama’s single digit lead over Mitt Romney in the crucial battleground state of Virginia has disappeared, according to a new poll. The Quinnipiac University survey indicated Virginians split 44%-44% for the two presidential candidates. The race has tightened since March, when Obama led Romney 50%-42%, and the beginning of June, when Obama was ahead 47%-42%.”
So, the FACTS show that Obama’s EIGHT point lead in Virginia from just four months ago has DISAPPEARED. Anyone (even Dan) who has EVER studied polls knows that EIGHT points is HUGE. Now, Dan can flail about and claim that we must wait for a “clear” trend, and justify it all he wants. But no one is saying this means Obama loses and Mitt wins in November. All that is being said is that Obama’s EIGHT point lead from four months ago is gone (at least in Virginia). This shows a significant tightening in a race that was all but done just four months ago. I wonder why…
sandi, thanks for your response. i’ll look for your initial comment about my “lies”, although i’ll have to go back thru a couple of strings…the most likely one was ann romney’s “you people” mis-quote”. i’ll be in a meeting until later this afternoon, but will be searching after. as far as “rosy description”?…i came up with that coment after i read your post to mike o at 10:002 this a.m….i think you were being nicer to yourself than i thought you deserved.
Huntersdad,
You can start your trend line at March all you want. The facts of the matter are that in March:
1. There was no presumptive GOP nominee. Obama was running against the unknown. (Now there’s a presumptive GOP nominee(unless, somehow, his 2009 taxes leak soon. If that happens, Romney may not get the nomination).
2. The GOP field was spending millions trying to make each other look the the looniest, meanest, most unpalatable gang out there. That wasn’t difficult for them to do, btw. (Now they have more or less coalesced around Romney.
Both of these are good reasons why you should ignore what Matt said about the March-July “trend.” The fact is, it’s not an apples to apples comparison. In fact, because of the margin of error in each, they both may be saying exactly the same thing but it’s obscured by the margin of error’s range.
matt, please tell us you didn’t get that masters from Hollins in poll analysis. . .
Actually Dan,
1) To your first half-truth: there were MANY polls during that period and the months before in which the generic GOP contender was AHEAD of Obama, only to see these numbers go DOWN once an actual candidate (Romney) was inserted into the equation. (I’m sure you simply don’t remember those though, or didn’t “have the space” to include it in your response)
2) “The GOP field was spending millions trying to make each other look the the looniest, meanest, most unpalatable gang out there.”–this is Dan merely reaching desperately for something to hang his rubbish on (while seemingly channeling Sandi’s antics). LOL.
3) Do what Dan said: just ignore those silly polls, since, Dan is the expert in all things. He is, after all, a journalist. Not a real journalist, but an opinion columnist. So, polls don’t matter or count unless they show Democrats in the lead.
Huntersdad, never forget ol Dano’s quote from earlier in the thread:
130.JB, “Whete in the world did you get the (mistaken) impression I’m “objective?” I’m not objective, nor have I claimed to be. I’m subjective as hell.”—This, from a guy who calls himself a “JOURNALIST.” LOL!
matt, when a journalist writes a story about the Holocaust, or Saddam Hussein, or a mass shooting…how “objective” do they need to be? Should both sides of the story be given equal weight?
Nowhere in the definition of “journalist” is a writer required to be objective. It’s way broader than that. I mean, would you consider the writers for National Review to be “journalists”? It’s a nakedly conservative publication. I realize that there’s nothing wrong with stories being presented in an openly conservative way, because of course that can’t be considered bias but rather good reporting.
In short, your harping on Dan and his subjectivity is stupid and boring. Stupid’s ok, but boring, no.
Frank, I am seriously missing your point. I said that I felt Mike O wanted me to treat people with respect and civil debate whether they offer the same or not. Wants me to overlook the insults and just discuss the point they believe they are making. Wants me to excuse the boorish decorum and concentrate on the validity of what they believe to be true. And I said: “I do not tolerate such antics in supposed adults.” Why you consider that an “overly rosy description about how [I] treat people”, I am not sure. LOTS of things fall under not tolerating something.
to matt’s point – or lack thereof:
In the newest Virginia presidential Quinnipiac Poll the numbers are as follows:
Virginia – the two candidates are deadlocked 44 – 44 percent
However, if you look within the numbers it hard to say HOW they could be tied:
“Romney takes Republicans 91 – 4 percent
while Obama takes Democrats 92 – 4 percent.” (+Obama)
“Independent voters are divided with 40 percent for Obama and 38 percent for Romney.” (again, + for Obama)
“The president leads 46 – 41 percent among women
Romney wins with men 46 – 42 percent.” (+Romney)
“White voters go to Romney 55 – 33″ [no surprise]
while black voters back Obama 88 – 1 percent. ” (+Obama)
“Romney has a negative 39 – 42 percent favorability
Obama’s divided 46 – 48 percent.” (+ Obama)
“”One small edge that President Barack Obama has is likability. Voters have a slightly more favorable opinion of the president than they do Gov. Mitt Romney.” http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/virginia/release-detail?ReleaseID=1778
Now the Quinnipiac Poll did not reflect a Hispanic vote, which nationally, favors President Obama by a wide margin:
“The latest survey, from Gallup, indicated presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney with the backing from 26 percent of registered Hispanic voters, compared to 67 percent who back President Barack Obama.” (+ Obama)
http://www.wcyb.com/news/politics/Poll-Most-Hispanics-independent-voters/-/14590782/15370510/-/12f6hdj/-/index.html
Using deductive reasoning, do you really think Obama will not win VA?
The months you all spent dismissing the polls showing Obama ahead really shows your stuff now touting polls showing him not… But don’t let it stop you. IMO, you all deserve Romney like you did Bush. It is sad that the rest of us will have to suffer too, but we’ll be back on top in the blog world! Always a silver lining.
Kristen, masters degree matt has a stunning intellectual deficit when it comes to the definition of the term “journalist.” He doesn’t understand the definition and he’s braying that as loudly as he can right here, while lecturing us on his college grades and degrees and his intellectual superiority.
It’s pretty funny stuff. He’s essentially arguing that it’s obvious that a Mustang is exactly the same as an Explorer, because they both are Fords, and anyone who can’t see that is an idiot.
He’s definitely making a case for idiocy, but not the one he believes he’s making.
“This, from a guy who calls himself a “JOURNALIST”"
Actually, Dan is a COLUMNIST. He writes a COLUMN for the paper.
Dan, you and the commenters on this thread are the only people that will call what YOU do true “journalism.” What Dan does is distort facts, tell half-truths, and only discuss topics in a manner that gives HIS political ideology a voice, and no one else’s. Journalism entails objectively reporting and fact-based analysis, not the author’s “feelings” and “ideology.” So, sure, that makes Dan a “journalist.” A “journalist” who tells the truth HALF the time. What Dan does is twist and distort the term “journalist” into what he wants it to be (which is also how Dan writes his articles). Dan has already told us he is “subjective as hell.” This basically means “yes, I tell half-truths and exclude facts to better my argument.” They didn’t teach objectivity in journalism from the school Dan graduated from, which is why he has a crummy little job working for a crummy little small-town newspaper as he approaches old age.
POLLS… Yawn…
They will change a hundred times (or more) before November.
I find it more interesting to talk to my moderate friends. I knew McCain was in trouble when virtually all of them were going for Obama. For various reasons from GOP fatigue to the first “black” president thing (not to mention “change” which we have surely gotten).
So far I have found none of them who say they are voting for Obama again. I understand that means absolutely “nothing” but it is about as accurate as a presidential poll in July.
Hey Sandi, I think hell has frozen over because I just agreed with you 100% in another thread…lol “Louie, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship”… (I know I have a strange sense of humor…)
Media Gutter Politics: Let’s Slam Ann Romney
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http://roanokeslant.blogspot.com/2012/07/media-gutter-politics-lets-slam-ann.html
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Wonderful post, LB. Right on.
Sandi, I think a quote from your post above perfectly demonstrates our polar opposite political views. I believe our primary difference is one of philosophy. Above you state:
“Of course “government is the root of all good” because government is the root of us”
You see the government as the root of us. That implies that the government is the foundation upon which the people our built. I believe the exact opposite. WE are the root of the government and it derives from the people. The government’s power comes from US. You know, a government of the people, by the people and for the people, NOT a people of the government, by the government and for the government.
And for which newspaper do you write, matt? You’ve been blathering incessantly for days about Dan and his opinionated articles, semantically arguing the definition of journalist and squawking about integrity and fairness, all in an effort to pump your own butt full of sunshine and masturbate your ego. We get it, okay? Your allegedly Hollins-educated brain is SOOOOO much smarter than ours and you have it all figured out…
Here’s the kicker, though:
At the end of the day, Dan is still paid to do what he does. No amount of whining, kicking and screaming is going to change that fact, Corky. His resume can say “journalist” on it if it hare-lips all the cows in Texas and there’s nothing you can do about it except bang your helmet against the keyboard some more. You’re just making yourself look more pathetic at every turn. I’m sure Dan pauses every time he gets ready to endorse his paycheck, wondering if it’s morally right for him to do so, given your opinion of his misclassified job title. Wow! Neutron stars are less dense.
You’ve gone beyond the realm of proving your point now. Now it just looks like an obsession driven by jealousy to outside observers. It’s time to take what’s left of your dignity and limp back to your Fortress of Intellectual Superiority; you’ve made no difference here, hero.
Your messianic need to enlighten and guide us unwashed masses is neither needed nor wanted here. Do you need to be crucified [further] to get the point?
#294 You mean Michelle had an affair with Wright? Never heard that one.
You guys tried to score with all this stuff four years ago. No dice. Bye, bye.
I want y’all to know that Lars and I have an interesting tradition of having drinks together every Christmas Day, at a party we’re both invited to. It’s always a fun time, and I love his wife.
hey dan,since you’re a journalist (i know, i know, i know, you are really an “opinion” journalist, which means you get to ignore all sense of balance to your writing product, just like glenn beck, sean hannity, and el rushbo), are you familiar with the Pew Research Center’s Project For Excellence in Journalism? the project created 9 principles for interested journalists to follow, although adherance to those principles would seem not reasonable for opinion journalists. do opinion journalists have standards applicable to their niche category?
http://www.journalism.org/rescources/principles/
Chuck, I know what you are saying, but you cracked me up with “You see the government as the root of us.” then you say “WE are the root of the government”. I know you think those are opposites, but you also know that I have railed against “government” abuses, over reach and intrusions as well and that in no realm do I not believe the “government’s power comes from US”. You are twisting it to make it something I do not believe and you know that. But I am used to that too.
i just read the post from Lori, where dan is depicted as a “columnist”. i think that’s more accruate than journalist, especially when the standards developed by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism are considered.
Frank,
I didn’t look at the link. Having never taken a college journalism course in my life (I was an English major), I’ve never fully wrapped my mind around what some others call “journalistic ethics.”
On the other hand, I have collected more than a couple of dozen regional and national journalism awards in my life. (They really don’t mean squat, btw, except they’re nice to toss in the face of award-less critics. The truth is, you’re about as good as your last story or column).
But I’ve picked up a few lessons along the way:
1) Tell the truth, in dealing with sources and in what you write. Don’t lie, cheat or steal.
2) Don’t pay for information.
3) In most cases, don’t accept information “off the record.” Most of the time that sources try this, they’re trying to influence your stories or columns without taking any responsibility for the info they want to see in the paper. Refuse to take it off-the-record and they usually come around to a mutually acceptable realm in which they give you the info “on the record.”
4) Your clients ALWAYS are your readers. NEVER are they your sources. Don’t ever forget this or you’re making a huge mistake.
5) If you’re going to make someone very uncomfortable with a story or column, don’t surprise them. Do your best to let them know that it’s coming, and try hard to seek additional information on the topic at hand at the same time.
6) If you’re a reporter (the type of journalist that strives for objectivity is important) try to include both sides of a story in your report. HOWEVER, never let anyone deter you from doing a story by ducking your calls or questions. And NEVER worry too hard about finding someone who believes the Holocaust was good, if you have somebody in your story calling it evil. And if you can see with your own eyes that the sky is blue, never feel an obligation to put in your story that it is green, just because some idiot told you that.
This is not an all-encompassing list. There’s probably more. That’s all for now, though.
J.M. White,
Your thoughtful, classy, and subjective opinion is noted. I’m glad, as you stated, that my point was finally proven. Whew, that was a long and laborious process, wasn’t it? Admitting to being a subjective Rush Limbaugh-style entertainer pretty much summed it up for me. You and a few others are welcome to continue defending Dan, though.
Ah Dan, who are you kidding? “Also, I discovered Sandi Saunders was hand feeding him the scurrilous drivel as she has been doing over the years. So Dan, why won’t you stop hiding behind her skirt tails?”
http://www.theroanoketribune.com/catalog_86.html
I just about peed my pants! He even has my picture! You folks can just call me “the source”. And please, keep this highly sensitive info on the downlow! I have a cover to maintain.
matt, the only point you’ve proven is that you’re stubborn and dumb and you want the world to kow-tow to your own, and incorrect, definition of “journalist.”
Sandi,
What is that dude’s name, anyway? I forgot. Didn’t we ban him and his links from here?
Apparently we need a refresher here:
“Definition of JOURNALIST
1 a: a person engaged in journalism; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium
b: a writer who aims at a mass audience
Definition of JOURNALISM
1 a: the collection and editing of news for presentation through the media
b: the public press
c: an academic study concerned with the collection and editing of news or the management of a news medium
2 a: writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine
b: writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation
c: writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/journalism?show=0&t=1343186658
Where, exactly, are you all getting your definition?
#307 That would be Bobby Buck, I believe.
That dude subpoenaed me for his penny ante (and LOSER) lawsuit against The Roanoke Tribune. He also subpoenaed Sandi, and sent the subpoena by taxi to an address on 12 O’Clock Knob Road, even tho it’s nowhere near where she lives! You can’t make this stuff up.
“Having never taken a college journalism course in my life (I was an English major), I’ve never fully wrapped my mind around what some others call “journalistic ethics.”– Dan Casey
And there you have it, folks! My work here is done! Dan, you are just the gift that keeps on giving. Couple that with your “I’m subjective as hell” comment and I’d say you and el Rushbo are one in the same, just “entertainers.” Dan, you stay classy. And keep “entertaining” the “masses.”
This has been fun! Until the next thread…
matt,
There’s a huge difference between Dan and Rush Limbaugh. If you tried to make the same comments to Limbaugh, you wouldn’t get through to go on the air.
Right On 13 Suns, they brook no argument, much less the trash talk and dishonest crap matt is slinging. Same on their blogs. That is why they come here, they know Dan will allow it, and they still denigrate him. Jerk is too kind of a description.
Not for nothing Frank, but your link says “Page not Found”.
dan, your list of things you try to adhere to looks like ones i’d hope to follow myself if i tried to do what you do…in terms of being a sujective opinion columnist.. as for your awards…i think we all would be proud to get awards for what we do, as long as those things are legal, and we did our best. my point in mentioning the Pew stuff in the first place is that the organization seems to be reputable, and they appear to be trying to enance the standards of “journalism”.
i enjoy watching “The 5″ on FOX, and enjoy the points raised by bob beckel and juan williams, and the same with alan colmes and kirsten powers when they appear on other FOX programs, and then there are the liberal guests which often add good thoughts to various FOX programs.
Dan, I didn’t look at any polls that far back (March), just back to the first week of June. Obama’s lead then was between 5 and 8 points depending on which poll you looked at, the Quinnipiac being among those I looked at. But all the Obama faithful just need to relax, Va. is just one state and I have to agree with old scrunched face Charles Croutenhammer if the election were held this week Obama would win pretty easily. And then there’s the tax return issue that Romney hasn’t really dealt with and he still has to name a VP running mate so there is still a long way to go. I saw a poll that Fox was putting out there on who should be Romney’s running mate and low and behold Palin was one of the choices. Some people just don’t learn anything from past mistakes…if the Republicans go there again they deserve everything they get from Obama’s next four years.
sandi, i should have double-checked it first.
here’s the link to the site:
http://www.journalism.org/resources/principles
Thanks Frank, sounds to me like Dan covers all of them very well. Especially the last one: This blog is not his career in Journalism and you would do well not to let matt’s vitriol lead you to believe it is. Dan has done some fine work for people that need a voice. Check the archives of his actual columns. He has also done some outstanding reporter work and feature stories in the paper. I get your anger at not having a cheerleader for your politics, but we are lucky to have Dan at our paper!
“9. ITS PRACTITIONERS MUST BE ALLOWED TO EXERCISE THEIR PERSONAL CONSCIENCE
Every journalist must have a personal sense of ethics and responsibility–a moral compass. Each of us must be willing, if fairness and accuracy require, to voice differences with our colleagues, whether in the newsroom or the executive suite. News organizations do well to nurture this independence by encouraging individuals to speak their minds. This stimulates the intellectual diversity necessary to understand and accurately cover an increasingly diverse society. It is this diversity of minds and voices, not just numbers, that matters.”
Contact the Roanoke Times or go to http://blogs.roanoke.com/refreshRT/ and ask them to give John Long or Linda Whitlock a blog for you to feel loved on.
hey, sandi, thanks for this. so, according to you, dan “fits” with one of nine standards, eh? actually, i think you’re being too hard on him. even glenn beck beats dan, though, and Pew is about as lib as an organization can be.
you know, we might be lucky to have dan at the paper, ’cause his blog does keep you guys from trying to eat your own, and it does remind some others that it takes all kinds to make the world go round. there is certainly value to both. i’ve read many of the feature columns, and for the most part feel like i learned something from some. as far as awards go, i think dan should get the faux journalism award for his heavily biased political hit pieces.
I’m smelling something again…Oh, there it is.
Frank,
If you believe you have found some regulation or universally adopted “journalistic standard” that I fail to meet, then by all mean report me to the newspaper, or to some cops or something and demand I be arrested or fired for those sins or crimes.
Whoa!
I checked out the Bobby Buck link and it is getting a little crazy over there. He basically used to blog here as a means of self promoting the Roanoke Tribune. Seems like Dan and Sandy have given him a new reason to live.
#320(door)matt,
Your Hollins degree should work prefectly to clean up that thing you smell…
#323 Alcoholic Steve,
Thanks, man.
Steve C:
323.”#320(door)matt,
Your Hollins degree should work prefectly to clean up that thing you smell…”
Yeah, and it’s a good thing that master’s degree diplomas are larger. They have more of it wipe!
There you go again Frank. Is it a comprehension thing or do you have an aversion to the truth?
“hey, sandi, thanks for this. so, according to you, dan “fits” with one of nine standards, eh?” That, is a lie.
#324 (door)matt,
It’s no problem; I could tell you were floundering and needed an assist. Glad to help out.
To paraphrase the Great Winston Churchill (one of my idols); in the morning I’ll be sober, but you, ma’am, will still be verbally incontinent.
Don’t use your whole degree in one sitting,(door)matt.
John Wilburn,
I hate when I bumble my punch line, too. Hey, it happens to the best of us.
matt, I shouldn’t have said “They” as it implies there is a group of master’s degree a**holes, masterholes, out there. You are in a class of your own. I apologize.
Steve for the save! Thought you’d be passed out by now, buddy.
“Hitler was a bad man.
Winston Churchill was a good man.
But if you were in a balloon with Hitler and Churchill, and you were losing altitude…” –Harry Hill
#330 (door)matt,
I may or not be drunk. You are unquestionably an idiot.
That is all.
“But if you were in a balloon with Hitler and Churchill, and you were losing altitude…””
If matt was in the balloon, there would be enough hot air to keep everyone aboard, but Hitler would cap you and Churchill would throw your carcass out of the basket. on the bright side, you might have changed the world’s course for the better somehow… give yourself another hand.
329: “matt, I shouldn’t have said “They” as it implies there is a group”
John, you make a good point about matt’s singular status, but there’s no need to apologize for the common grammatical mistake. Even very bright people can confuse pronouns, like saying “that” when they meant “those”; e.g. “you didn’t build that” instead of “you didn’t build those” (roads and bridges). Only rabid fools could miss that it’s a simple mistake; so on second thought, it’s a good thing you explained it to matt.
Lol! Ohhh, Johnny. Apology accepted.
dan, i believe in the first amendment. also, in case you might have missed it, i replied earlier that i thought the several personal standards you mentioned were ones that i would imagine i’d follow if i were expected to write a one-sided, not un-biased, left-wing column, or in other words, if i were in your shoes.
as far as formal standards, i sent a link to your, ahh, well, hmmm…to sandi (your “truth monger”), which enumerated something called the Principles of Journalism, produced under the banner of the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism. in sandi’s response, only the ninth principle (there are only nine principles in total) was mentioned concerning you. i dared to comment on that, and was summarily told by your truth monger that, well,…i had “lied”. sigh…
I see, it IS a comprehension problem.
sandi,
regarding Pew’s No. 9….dan has admitted that his columns are “biased as _ _ _ _”. he may be true to his conscience, and in fact may be following his moral compass. however, in his 30-inch column missive on “what obama really meant to say”, dan spoke only of the benefits of government working with already wealthy, non-minority small business persons, and large corporate organizations…not much diversity there. in fact, he left out the tragedy of Gainsboro, which tore apart and destroyed a neighborhood comprised of many of roanoke’s poorest and most defenseless citizens. according to dan, “he only had so much space”.
i suspect that in dan’s zeal to “dazzle his readers” with his witty defense of obama, spread over 30-column-inches…, he never gave ANY thought to diversity, period. consequently, he ended up extolling the virtues of a taxpayer financed, government-driven process which in very recent years benefitted some wealthy white guys, and the largest corporation in this town, and ignored what that same government did to, in effect, slash and burn the Gainseboro community.
A\lso, please see Pew Principles of Journalism No. 8. IT MUST KEEP THE NEWS COMPREHENSIVE AND PROPORTIONAL:
“KEEPING NEWS IN PROPORTION AND NOT LEAVING IMPORTANT THINGS OUT ARE ALSO CORNERSTONES OF TRUTHFULNESS. JOURNALISM IS A FORM OF CARTOGRAPHY: IT CREATES A MAP FOR CITIZENS TO NAVIGATE SOCIETY. INFLATING EVENTS FOR SENSATION, NEGLECTING OTHERS, STEREOTYPING OR BEING DISPROPORTIONATELY NEGATIVE ALL MAKE A LESS RELIABLE MAP. THE MAP ALSO SHOULD INCLUDE NEWS OF ALL OUR COMMUNITIES, NOT JUST THOSE WITH ATTRACTIVE DEMOGRAPHICS. THIS IS BEST ACHIEVED BY NEWSROOMS WITH A DIVERSITY OF BACKGROUNDS AND PERSPECTIVES. THE MAP IS ONLY AN ANALOGY; PROPORTION AND COMPREHENSIVENESS ARE SUBJECTIVE, YET THEIR ELUSIVENESS DOES NOT LESSON THEIR SIGNIFICANCE.
as noted above about the Gainesboro community, dan chose to exclude any sense of proportion in his column….purportedly because he “didn’t have enough space”. therefore, obama, the rich white guys, and biggest corporation in town got the 30 column inches….none went for diversity.
Frank, I suspect that you live in your own little (and I do mean little) world.
LOL. Frank, I think what Sandi meant to say was “I got nothin.” This is a common phenomenon when one’s head is spinning…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443931404577551344018773450.html
WOW, put the two of you together and you still have a sad clown.
I cannot help Frank’s dysfunction and I am tired of trying to communicate in futility.
sandi, so, since you have nothing enlightening to offer in defense of the owner’s of the roanoke times’ failing to report racial violence, as well as for dan’s inexplicable cheering for the rich white guys and roanoke’s biggest and most powerful corporation…and forgetting about Gainesboro, you resort to calling me names.
…yet, you can’t explain the va-pilot thingy, can you? please, please comment on what the “context” was for Ms. Washington’s little quote. please follow this line of thinking…
…try this one…in my opinion, Ms. Washington contorted herself inside out in order to avoid saying something much closer to the truth, which might have been, please understand all you readers out there, “there were about 100 young people, all desperately trying to “walk on the sidewalk”, when all of a sudden a car carefully eased through the unsuccessful sidewalk walkers who were unsuccessfully staying on the sidewalk, and proceded to lawfully stop at the red light, and some of those disadvantaged youths (it’s real hard to figure out how to walk on the sidewalk, particularly if you are in a crowd of about 100 young people and all have the same desire to walk on the sidewalk as you do..) got frustrated about there not being enough room for them on the sidewalk, so at least one of the unsuccessful sidewalk walkers threw a rock at the car, and when the driver got out of his car to to see what was going on, the rest of the unsuccesful sidewalk walkers took turns beating the snot out of him, and when his female companion got out of the car, they also took turns beating the snot out of her. “i insist it had nothing to do with trayvon’s recent death at the hands of a white-hispanic (even tho trayvon’s name was mentioned in a norfolk news video…not associated with our good newspaper)), and even though the two virginian-pilot reporters were white, and the 100 young people walking, or trying to walk…on the sidewalk were not white, nor were they hispanic….”
and, dan is a self-professed “biased as —-” opinion columnist, who works for an organization who, well, contorts themselves inside out making excuses about about racial violence, particularly when it involves their own 2 non-black, non-hispanic reporters who had the misfortune of lawfully stopping their car at a red light amidst a group of non-white, non-hispanic, young people who were desparately trying to excersize their right to walk on the sidewalk at Church and Brambleton, and, being unsuccessful, decided to take their frustration at being denied their right to walk on the sidewalk… out on those two white reporters. Ya think that was any closer to the truth as offered by Ms. Washington?
…nor can you explain away the Gainseboro thingy, either.
…since dan chose to devote his massive 30 column inch opinion piece on obama last sunday to extolling the virtues of our local gov’mint’s “enabling” two of roanoke’s already rich white guys, and roanoke’s largest and most powerful corporation, in getting richer…and chose to not give any “balance” to government intervention in such things (i think it’s called “picking winners and losers”)….i decided to remind you and dan about that little Gainesboro thingy….you know, that’s that’s the one, along with the Surfaces land taking, that you said “dan was all over”… ah, no he was not. he gave Surfaces one of his “danos”, for not taking the money and running away (and, if dan gives one a dano, its probably not because he thinks you’ve been wronged)… …and, do you think the citizens of Gainseboro, who are still among roanoke’s poorest and most vulnerable and defenseless, are feeling pretty good about dan lovin’ on the local gov’mint’s enabling 2 already rich white guys, and it’s biggest and most powerful corporation, get richer and more powerful?
not for nothin’ sandi, but i betcha dan forgot about all of that other stuff, because it didn’t fit the bias with which he chose to write his column. yeah, he was “all over it”, all right. i know dan has to make a living, keep his bosses and owners happy. i do get that.
hey, i know, let’s have you do some more name calling, and dan can comment on my underwear. …seems that’s what libs do when they got nothin’.
Frank, does it occur to you that you are not prescient?
Does it occur to you that whatever the City has done, or will do to Gainsboro has been to enrich business and commerce and not the citizens of the area? Even if Dan had mentioned the Gainsboro efforts, it would have ENHANCED his point about the government serving business and commerce, not the other way around.
You remain flailing in the pitiful throes of idiocy, jealousy and the pain of refusing to see the truth. It is a right wing dilemma.
Frank and (door)matt must be the boards new synchronized swimmers.
The whole Gainesboro/Norfolk/Dan’s journalist integrity thing is getting a little long-in-tooth. You two have been carrying on about this nonsense since last Friday. Everyone observed the two person love fest the first time. Do you two have any other shared interests? Paint drying, perhaps? This foolishness begs the obvious question; if the blog offends your vision of journalism, why the hell to you assclowns keep hanging around droning on about how much it sucks? Go already!
If the Olympics awarded medals for grab-assing the U.S. would be a gold medal richer thanks to you idiots. Give it a rest.
I’m kind of wondering if Frank and matt are brothers, or father and son or some other relation.
Would either of you care to address that?
Frank,
Do you really go around measuring the length of columns?
Not sure what your fascination with “30 inches” is; pretty sure I don’t want to know.
Time for a new hobby, Frank. The kvetching is worse than a fifteen year girl whose parents just told her she can’t have unlimited texting anymore.
Let it go, Frank, just let it go…
sandi, i like your post, which in effect says, the city did end up slashing and burning Gainesboro…”to enrich business and commerce and not the citizens of the area”. so, maybe dan can award the folks in Gainseboro a dano, eh? after all, the city was just trying to “enrich business and commerce, not the citizens of the area” (just like the city did with Surfaces, except they did it to roanoke’s poorest and most defenseless CITIZENS, not an already successful and viable business). i got that one loud and clear…, the ends justify the means.
…you refuse to look at the essence of the point, which is that government shouldn’t be using tax-payer money to pick winners and losers in business, period. and one last thing, sandi…i do appreciate your effort and skill in playing the hand you are dealt. you have made me think.
hey welcome back dano, i hope you enjoyed your weekend. so, rather than offer any “on topic” thought, you wonder about matt’s and my families, and whether we’re related. i’ve been wondering that about you and sandi…
and, good ol’ steve c, why not stay on the sidelines, as you sure don’t contribute to the conversation. back in the day, we referred to folks like you as “the peanut gallery”. steve, go eat more peanuts, thro the shells on the floor. go ahead, it’s ok.
Frank,
Sandi and I are not related. Now why don’t you answer the question?
well, looks like dan is done commenting.
why did you give the owners of Surfaces a “dano”, dan?
Actually Dan, I think Frank sounds a lot like SharonN’s brother. And matt could easily be Suzie’s illegitimate son. Both of those august personalities were mia this week so they sent their surrogates to muck up the blog with a healthy dose of barnyard manure.
hi dave, do you know why dan gave the owners of Surfaces a “dano”?
Really dave…I think they’re here to make Suzie look good.
kristen, well now, you’ve really raised the bar, haven’t you?
maybe you could tell us why dan gave the owners of Surfaces (since neither dan nor dave can)…that successful small business on Reserve Ave, which was confiscated by the city of Roanoke to ostensibly “sell” to Carilion…which Carilion ended up saying it never wanted in the first place… a “dano”, for foolish behavior? what o what did those small business owners do to deserve dan’s “funny/stupid” wrath? i’ll tell you: they dared to say “no” to the city and the erstwhile liberal belief that “what’s mine is mine, and what’s YOUR’S is mine”. please tell us why you think dan found their behavior so “funny/stupid”, and awarded them a “dano”.?
Pretty sure it was not a liberal SC that upheld eminent domain the type of which Surfaces tried to ride to a better but always known outcome. “You can’t fight City Hall” has been an old adage for a reason. Why you need to rehash old news is your problem Frank. Come into the light. If this nation learned from mistakes, Romney would not be the nominee for the TP/GOP.
I believe I gave a Dano to the folks who own Surfaces in 2010. The fact that Frank is still hanging on to that, more than a year and a half later, says a lot about the power of that award. I had honestly forgotten all about it!
Now Frank, tell us about the relationship, if any, between you and matt.
Frank, you have now decided that “the essence of the point” was not Dan leaving out any mention of Gainsboro? Really, because that is all you yammered about for post after post. Now you say it is “government shouldn’t be using tax-payer money to pick winners and losers in business”, well welcome to the real world. That is not only not new, it is much the way Roanoke was literally created. Blaming Dan for what is, cannot be the most futile use of your time, but it is darn close.
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-04132012-140503/unrestricted/Tate_AnthonyS_D_2012.pdf
Frank, I can say in total honesty that I couldn’t care less about Surfaces, Danos, or Gainsboro. And I dont get your obsession, although I suspect Dan has some insight into it.
For the record, I think a lot of people thought the Surfaces people got a raw deal. The rest of them thought they should take their money and run. People disagree. Get over it. The world didn’t end and presumably the principals have moved on.
And yo frank….every time the government solicits bids on projects and chooses among them – for whatever reason – they’ve created a winner and loser. That’s how it works.
Frank,
Do you have a yard to mow or maybe a family or something you could go attend to? The rest of us could really use a break from your paranoid rants about the black menace underneath your bed.
Thanks in advance,
The rest of the board.
Some cynical Obama haters have plucked a few bits from that middle paragraph and are now using them to weave lies about what the president meant.
Funny, I remember a while back Dan had a thread defending MSNBC for actually changing the meaning of Romney’s words by leaving out a huge gap between the lines they aired. This was when he was falsely portrayed at being amazed at MTO sandwiches at convenience stores, and thereby out of touch But when the GOP pulls an unedited contiguous 0bama quote that reflects the communist’s real views, Dan squeals like a stuffed pig.
Frank’s awfully quiet about the black menace in his closet I .mentioned yesterday; I sure hope this didn’t cause him to pee his bed last night.
Suzie, Well Said!
Round of applause to our smallish class of graduating 4th graders…
“Dan squeals like a stuffed pig.”
Well said indeed! LOL
Not sure what your fascination with “30 inches” is; pretty sure I don’t want to know.
It obviously has nothing to do with you, Steve C.
Frank, are you perhaps connected in some way to Surfaces, or its ownership? I don’t mean to imply that you are or aren’t. Just looking for disclosure.
dobbs, Frank won’t even say what, if any, relationship he has with the recently departed “matt.” You expect him to answer that question?
matt disappears, and looky who shows up.
Disappeared, Dan? Wasn’t it just yesterday that I exposed your Norfolk b.s? Lol. There you go again, telling lies.
matt, tell us about your relationship to Frank, if any.
Suzie…
Just curious…this place, this island paradise
of monumental thinkers 2nd only to Bohemian Grove..
Is it anywhere near the Coast of Africa so that
you and your friends could shuttle back and forth
doing magnanamous , superhuman charitable deeds?
I try to follow your escapades..but its mentally like
trying to herd feral cats.
Suzie probably went to the Vineyard, and she went to mass on Chappaquiddick, and she crossed herself as she went over THAT bridge, and thanked God for giving Teddy Kennedy brain cancer.
Swab the deck,
Swab the deck,
Mindlessly avails herself
Day after day..and day after day..
Swab the deck , swab the deck.
Id say more like stopped at Mr Bills wine cellar
on the way to the James River C&O crossing
and fished for Botetourt Chilean Sea Bass..
after it got dark and the mosquitoes started
eating them and their bait,
left and looked in the general direction of a tent revival
in Lithia and prayed to the Saint of welts to make her whole again.
That would be St Skeeter…
patron saint of welts.
How did he get brain cancer from killing someone??
Marked Man as usual has to take it even lower.
Suzie, it is “Funny” that Willard Romney, who changes the meaning of his own words daily is still worthy of defense over same. As usual, you “remember” in the fog of your own twisted perspective. If anything, MSNBC did Willard a favor by NOT showing his full remarks. That you missed that important point is not new. You can pretend that millionaires hit the MTO counter on every vacay the dog is strapped to the top of the car for, but it is just not so.
Since you are obsessed with running this blog, I don’t think it is Dan that is “squealing” on any level. You come here, not the other way around “girl”.
Dan #372, I am telling you, it was a liberal enclave and she simply did not have the brains to know it.
Sandi #379, nahhhhh, the hairy women, the B.O. oozing males, and the lack of people who wanted to work would have given it away.
Ah,w ell. Since MM thinks I reek B.O. and don’t want to work, let’s go back to the original subject.
Since President Obama’s speech in Roanoke hard line conservatives have been taking him to task for saying that no small business person does it alone. The yelps of pain came quick and furious, as if every conservative was insulted by that statement.
I’ve been a small businessman for many years, selling my first written words 1968. The GI Bill kicked in the next year, so I used that to help me finish my degree. Before that, I attended elementary and junior high schools, and, finally, high school, then enlisted in the Marine Corps. The Marines thus helped me get through college, as much as did the tax payers in the towns in which I went to school. To get to schools, I walked, rode city or school buses which used roads built and maintained with taxpayer bucks. My mother pushed me to return to school after my discharge; she helped. I attended the State University of New York (Albany); taxpayers helped. I worked for Channel 17, WMHT educational TV, in ’67 and into ’68; their donors helped. I learned about editing, writing and photography from people like Mary Biggers and Paul Costin.
As a freelance photojournalist, I depended on the Post Office for delivery of my manuscripts and photos and for return of my checks. The banks cashed those checks so I’d have walk-around money. The streets in Albany were safe for me with money in my pocket. When my car was laid up, I depended on the city bus system get around. I depended on the city to clear the streets so I could get to class or to work. In Albany, in winter, that isn’t always easy: One year we depended on Montreal to loan Albany snow blowers large enough to clear the streets. We depended on snowmobile owners for transport for emergency services.
Infrastructure is people, places and governments as well as buildings, bridges and roads. Some of us forget that or take it so much for granted we don’t recognize the help we receive. None of us successful solely because of our own work. Absolutely no one.
I guess I should have said the lack of people who want to work at a real job, apparently.
Right on Dan, the right wing “saboteurs” so intent on “twisting the truth” were proven wrong, and evil last night! Thank you America for not buying their loads of hooey! Not only was Roanoke not his “Waterloo”, he carried Virginia!
The lengths that Suzie will go to so she can claim to run this blog, or keep threads going, or knock the thread about Obama off the top 5 list is truly pathetic but that is the kind of pathetic score keeping such empty people live for. Whatever the parameter, she will deliberately change it the moment you are on to her. If she cared about sin, she would care about all sin, and I think we all know she does not. What a Trojan.
Now that is rich, Suzie’ll even give a faux apology to keep a thread going. Stop helping her!
“I apologize for my last post. I didn’t mean to play into the hands of those trying to divert the topic.”
Oh yeah, you’re a woman on a mission alright.
OMG, Sandi, you’ve somehow ended up on an old thread that involves MMM. Please, no!!!!!!!
Sandi Saunders:
“Now that is rich, Suzie’ll even give a faux apology to keep a thread going. Stop helping her!”
I’m joining forces with Sandi…. you know this is important!
Let’s bring it over here, guys. Keep the Suzie/Westboro thread out of the top 5!
Thanks John Wilburn! Come on guys, see through that thin veil.