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The Roanoke Tea Party patriots who protested the prez

Photo by Steve C

Notice anything interesting about this picture? It’s not the signs — those worn-out slogans are seem left over from 2008.

So far as I can tell, not one of those protestors is exercising his or her God-given and Virginia constitutional right to open carry. Do you see anyone wearing a holster?

We should praise them for their sensitivity and restraint. (Maybe it was the snipers all over the rooftops who dissuaded them).

(h/t to Steve C for the pic)

 

 

 

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57 COMMENTS

  1. Bob | July 14, 2012 at 10:43 am

    I did notice this was a small representation of the protesters, who were bathed, and seemed to clearly outnumber the now dead Occupy RoanokeVA. The gun reference is immature, so don’t question my replies to this silliness.

  2. Meg J | July 14, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I notice the signs that said “Go back to Africa” are missing from this picture…

    I have to say those really disturbed me on a number of levels.

  3. Lynda K | July 14, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    I feel bad for the guy in the wheelchair. He has obviously been brainwashed into believing that the very healthcare changes that are there to benefit him, are evil.

  4. dave | July 14, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Actually Dan, I think it was the fear of the UN black helicopters swooping in and depriving them all of their rights to private property that probably dissuaded the TPers from carrying their weapons to this event. I’m sure they wanted to save themup for the much more important work to come. (Remember Sharon Angle).

  5. John Wilburn | July 14, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    That’s okay Dan, if you want to see open carry, it’ll be all over Green Hill Park today.

    I’ll give you points for taking a First Amendment event and trying to attach a negative Second Amendment connotation to it, though. Kudos.

  6. Ron May | July 14, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    As I looked at the picture, I began to wonder if the young man in the wheelchair understands that the Tea Party/Republicans would eliminate is health insurance coverage he likely has because of his pre-existing decision. I also wondered if the Tea Party folks really understand what the 1%ers will do to them. :(

  7. Ron May | July 14, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    That should be “his health insurance” and “pre-existing condition.”

  8. Sandi Saunders | July 14, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Sad. That kind of dishonesty is not productive. You cannot complain of Obama and then support Romney. Everything bad is worse with Romney.

    The Romney campaign thinks it can play it safe and coast to the White House by saying the economy stinks and it’s Mr. Obama’s fault. We’re on its email list and the main daily message from the campaign is that “Obama isn’t working.” Thanks, guys, but Americans already know that. What they want to hear from the challenger is some understanding of why the President’s policies aren’t working and how Mr. Romney’s policies will do better.
    Romney’s Tax Confusion
    The candidate’s response on the ObamaCare mandate reveals larger campaign problems.

  9. Sandi Saunders | July 14, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I guess this crowd has more hate than sense. Even Kristol gets it:

    “But voters want to hear what Romney is going to do about the economy. He can “speak about” how bad the economy is all he wants—though Americans are already well aware of the economy’s problems—but doesn’t the content of what Romney has to say matter? What is his economic growth agenda? His deficit reform agenda? His health care reform agenda? His tax reform agenda? His replacement for Dodd-Frank?

    Dukakis, Kerry … Romney?

    A man without a plan he can articulate and sell is not going to win. Not even against a weak opponent and last night in Roanoke, we saw that Obama is far from weak.

  10. Sandi Saunders | July 14, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    The right wing is truly the party of idiots and money changers. No way around it.

    “After three-and-a-half Obama years, blaming George W. Bush for the financial crisis, the 2007-09 recession, and the subsequent stagnation infuriates Republican elites (particularly Bush alumni). But as a line of attack, it is far more in accord with the views of American voters than the (now abandoned) contention that under Obama the national economy has made a decent comeback.

    In Gallup’s most recent sounding on this issue, taken in early June, 68 percent of voters blame George W. Bush a “great deal” or a “moderate amount” for the nation’s economic problems, while 52 percent assign such blame to Obama.

    Obama’s Victory Plan
    The economy won’t necessarily do him in.

  11. Sandi Saunders | July 14, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Perhaps you will note that not one of these sources is some liberal rag and not one of these sources believes Romney either has what it takes or is delivering what it takes.

    This nation still intrinsically knows what happened to us and is not going to absolve the GOP of their involvement and shepherding of the economic crash which incidentally fattened the already bulging wallet of their nominee.

    Even if Obama was “the devil” (and last night in Roanoke, he proved he is not even close), he is “the devil we know”. The “devil” who has been fighting for the workers and the middle class since day one. The “devil” who offered a plan and reforms and spending cuts and has laid his candidacy on the line to do so. All Romney has done is “blame Obama” for an economic crash he could not stop or immediately fix. Even to an electorate you hope to snow, your plans, policies and particulars matter!

  12. Bruce | July 14, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    I believe most of us had bathed before this event. If you were there you should remember that there was a guy on a bicycle on the “Obama” side, not wearing a shirt, and having a mask on that resembled Tales from the Crypt. No one on either side knew who he was, but he seemed pretty crazy and he sided with the Obama people. Open carry- There actually was one guy that was, he was the one that had that flag with a cross on the top of it. I have no idea what the flag meant or what his exact purpose was either. I know there were at least 4 of us there that have concealed permits. I can speak for the whole “group” and tell you that we all came there from different backgrounds, but we all agreed that Obama doesn’t need another term (I don’t agree with “Obamney” either). Obama preached ending the wars, shutting down Guantanamo Bay, no more bank bailouts, not reauthorizing the Patriot Act, and more jobs. We have more Unconstitutional wars, the Gitmo Bay just received 400,000 for a soccer field, more debt (17 trillion), He signed the Patriot Act, and we don’t have more jobs. He also signed the NDAA- with the clause it in that says it’s ok to detain Americans without TRIAL!!! WAKE UP- Ron Paul 2012

  13. gdad | July 14, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    #1 Come on, Bob, the protester turnout was pathetic. But it WAS great to see they were armed with their Confederate flag to object to the black president. Another thing about the crowd? It seems rather monochromatic, both in this picture and on the TV shots I saw.

    My son, who also doesn’t care for the more dramatic, radical members of the left, rolled his eyes when I asked him about the protesters he saw. “Crazy” was the word he used.

  14. Shrillary | July 14, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Evidently the “thrill is gone” for bashing the president, and making oneself look ridiculous. What a motley, unenthusiastic and disinterested looking group – sign upside down, not an original thought on any sign and really classy too! hanging a sign around a handicapped individual’s neck… and some on this blog called OWS protesters losers…hahahahha

  15. Frank Marshall Davis | July 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    If you look closely the guy on the left holding a flag is using open carry. That guy front and center is also a marine. I sure am glad we had all those state police and snipers to protect us from these terrorists.

  16. evan | July 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    The big fella in the white shirt was open carrying a kimber 45 on his hip. At least 4 others had concealed weapons. Persons like myself (seen folding the Ron Paul banner) didn’t carry because of the bs you have to go through to get a gun back after confiscation from an arrest. I wasn’t planning on being anything but peaceful, however, much like after a King rally, the people filing out are rowdy and fired up. The state police were dispatched to control them and keep the peace. Funny how no one coming out of the rally had an intelligent defense for Obamas actions or policies and got angry when presented with their ignorance of the platform of the politician they support and love.

  17. Suzie | July 14, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    The Tea Party contingent was nearly as large as the group of bused-in union folks who attended 0bama’s small gathering.

  18. Bob | July 14, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    * – Bigger protest than Occupy Roanoke EVER put on.
    * – Who wants to waste time with Obamabots? We’ll be there at the polls in force, with our I.D.’s!!!
    * – There was no “Go Back To Africa” sign. The race card is P-L-A-Y-E-D
    * – Being in a wheelchair, and poor as a church mouse, I fully understand the disabled a seniors will be taken well care of under a Republican administration. The fallacy Republican = Rich, Democrat = Poor is for sheeple to believe. For Dave to keep eluding to ONE incident in Arizona shows just how ignorant he is!
    * – Open carry permit is fine by me if one is qualified for one.

  19. Shrillary | July 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    most ill-informed @ #19 Evidently not only lacking critical thinking skills, this [domestic] “engineer” [not that there is anything wrong with that] lacks math skills as well, not being able to count past 100…bless its heart.

  20. Shrillary | July 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    @15

  21. Ron May | July 14, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Here’s what the Tea Party/Repbulicans want to do. How do you think those folks in Zimbabwe will fare Suzie Q. Tax breaks for the rich and cutting food aid to the poor.

    http://mcbroadcasting.com/2012/07/14/federal-act-could-cut-16b-from-food-assistance/

  22. Kristen | July 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    Looks like they mustered up ones and twos for their big protest.

  23. Warren | July 14, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    Obama gave Americans a large tax cut. True.

    In the 2008 campaign Obama promised a large tax cut. Republicans said it was a complete charade. And the Democratic President, in his first few weeks as president, delivered the tax cuts.

    Tax provisions in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009:

    For individuals:
    Total: $237 billion
    $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[24]
    $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[24]
    $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
    $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
    $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[38]
    $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
    $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers – for families with at least three children.
    $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
    $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

    For companies:

    Total: $51 billion
    $15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
    $13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
    $11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
    $7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
    $5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009.

    Obama gave Bob a tax cut. True.

  24. John Wilburn | July 15, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Bob:

    “Open carry permit is fine by me if one is qualified for one.”

    Why do you want the state to create a new permit?

    For what it’s worth, if there were any “Go back to Africa” signs at any of their events, I sincerely believe it is a play on the old racist interjection, but not the same meaning. They think he was born in Kenya and that it is a humourous and, for once, accurate use of “Go back to Africa.”

  25. Kristen | July 15, 2012 at 11:54 am

    “They think he was born in Kenya and that it is a humourous and, for once, accurate use of “Go back to Africa.”

    A) you can’t be serious, and B) even your pretzel-like attempt to distract from the obvious racist elements of whatever the Tea Bagger elements are calling themselves, this interpretation is hardly better. Between naked racists and flaming nutjobs, I’m not clear wherein lies the improvement.

  26. Meg J | July 15, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Bob: There were signs like that, I saw them, I took pictures of them… I walked away from them. I work downtown and walked through the crowds to get to my car. But thanks for calling me a liar! :)

  27. Shrillary | July 15, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    #24 John Wilburn, I am not sure I can find anything “humorous” in racist remarks, they are usually made to demean, not spread laughter and joy.

    Here’s a great website to demonstrate the teabaggers and their “humorous” racism…they and their message are disgusting.

    Photos of actual merchandise taken from Tea Party and right-wing websites and from print on demand websites. On all the print on demand sites the phrase “Tea Party was entered:
    http://samuel-warde.com/2012/07/26-shocking-photos-of-merchandise-from-tea-party-right-wing-websites/

    Anybody still laughing?

  28. Dan Casey | July 15, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Meg J, send me the pix!

  29. Suzie | July 15, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    Here’s what the Tea Party/Repbulicans want to do. How do you think those folks in Zimbabwe will fare Suzie Q. Tax breaks for the rich and cutting food aid to the poor.

    Hate to tell you this, Liberal Ron, but Zimbabwe is a far-left dictatorship. The black leader took all the farms away from white farmers out of racism and gave them to blacks who didn’t know how to run them. Now the country is in shambles. So the parallels you make between America and Zimbabwe are closer than you know.

    BTW there aren’t any rich in Zimbabwe anymore left to give tax breaks to, except for the ruling elite leftist leader and his entourage. And as with all big government leftwing regimes, it the poorest of the poor who get screwed.

  30. Dan Casey | July 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    “Hate to tell you this, Liberal Ron, but Zimbabwe is a far-left dictatorship. The black leader took all the farms away from white farmers out of racism and gave them to blacks who didn’t know how to run them. Now the country is in shambles. So the parallels you make between America and Zimbabwe are closer than you know.

    BTW there aren’t any rich in Zimbabwe anymore left to give tax breaks to, except for the ruling elite leftist leader and his entourage. And as with all big government leftwing regimes, it the poorest of the poor who get screwed.”

    The idiocy never ends.

  31. Bob | July 15, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    Let’s see that pic Meg J. Not a home made one to prove a point, but show me that particular sign with the members of the protesters.

    You can’t do it.

  32. Contrasuzie | July 15, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    “Bob says:

    Let’s see that pic Meg J. Not a home made one to prove a point, but show me that particular sign with the members of the protesters.”

    I don’t want to see the members of the protestors….

  33. gdad | July 15, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    #24 Surely you’re not serious, John W.

  34. Chuck | July 16, 2012 at 12:21 am

    Anyone ever notice that only Sandi and Suzi post 4 or 5 posts in a row without anyone else responding? At that point are you, in effect, talking to yourself?

  35. Suzie | July 16, 2012 at 7:19 am

    Anyone ever notice that only Sandi and Suzi post 4 or 5 posts in a row without anyone else responding? At that point are you, in effect, talking to yourself?

    Chuck,
    Actually I get so many posts directed at me, when I respond to them it can amount to five or six in a row. Sandi? Not sure what she’s doing. I think it’s just babbling.

  36. gdad | July 16, 2012 at 7:50 am

    #35 And notice, Chuck, how getting responses from strangers to lies and made-up stuff seems to be the high point of suzie’s day? Sad.

  37. Huntersdad | July 16, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Why would anyone that considers themselves a patriot fly a rebel flag at one of these events? To me, one of the most unpatriotic things you can do if you claim to love and support this country no matter what side you are on. And not one US flag present, at least not in this picture. Sad.

  38. Walker | July 16, 2012 at 9:02 am

    @37 Slave ships sailed under the Stars & Stripes – Never under the stars and bars? The stars and bars was a battle flag created because the First National flag looked too similar to the Stars & Stripes in the smoke of battle. Why do you race baiting alarmists give that flag a pass? Because it was the one chosen to represent us? – what if they had chosen a hybrid of the two? They both have a similar history, though one was flown more often in relation to slavery. Guess which one.

  39. Rich | July 16, 2012 at 10:29 am

    When Sarah was in this area as a vice candidate 12K honorable patriots came. Romney 2K. Sitting (questionaly legal) president a very small 2-3K crowd. That speaks volumes of a poor president. His campaign only has negative irrelevant rhetoric. No mention of accomplishments thus far because there are none. A big fat zero for this disgraceful president, a big piece of…

  40. gdad | July 16, 2012 at 10:52 am

    #39 I’m really impressed with how much good Palin did for McCain, too, Rich.

  41. gdad | July 16, 2012 at 11:03 am

    #39 BTW, I’m sure Repubs were out there whining when the Secret Service shut down every road Sarah traveled on during that event. How dare she show her face in public!

  42. Kristen | July 16, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Don’t look now Rich…but they SOLD TICKETS to the Obama event. The number was deliberately limited. You people are not too bright.

  43. (Big booty) Bob | July 16, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Sarah draws hugh crowds everwhere she goes. Sarah does not tell others what they should or should not eat and she has a small booty. Michelle tells others what they should or should not eat and she has a large booty. Go figure.

  44. Debbie | July 16, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Actually they gave away tickets, Kristen. They didn’t sell them. :-)

  45. VT Hokie | July 16, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Steve C. must have been behind me in the line to get into the Obama event, because there weren’t that many protesters when I passed by that point.

    On a side note, I cannot believe the number of people driving by that asked what we were waiting in line for. OMG, do you live under a rock? How in the world does one not realize the President of the United States is in their home town?

  46. Huntersdad | July 16, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Walker I guess I give the Stars and Stripes a ‘pass’ because it is the flag that I proudly stand and pledge allegiance to and turn to during the playing of our national anthem…not the flag of some long ago lost cause and idealism. But don’t get me wrong, if you or anyone else want to fly the Stars and Bars at the function of your choice, have at it. But it struck me as odd that a group that claims to want to unify a group of citizens to protest against the sitting president and his outlandish policies would choose to gather under a flag that is sure to do anything but unify. If I were the public protesting type (which at this point in my life I’m not) I would have been more inclined to stand with the Tea Partiers in downtown than the Obama supporters or the occupiers. At least right up to the point I seen them all standing under that flag…IMHO that action makes them look like a bunch of dolts that no one would ever take seriously.

  47. Walker | July 16, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    @46 – I agree 100%. I could care less about the Stars and Bars (either way) – I’m just pointing out the facts about the flags that flew back then and how history has overlooked the fact that the flag we so proudly hail now has had just as much of a relationship with slavery (if not more, historically) as the one that the majority of folks here proclaim as racist.

  48. Kristen | July 16, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    Sorry Debbie, thanks for the correction, I meant give away of course.

    VTHokie, maybe their power was still out? No local news? I was so bummed to miss it…last time I left town, Captain Phil from Deadliest Catch camt to my Kroger and I missed that too.

    The rebel flag represents a failed enterprise that no longer exists. Sort of like Palin’s political career. Not surprisingly, they both appeal to the same crowd.

  49. John Wilburn | July 16, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    “Between naked racists and flaming nutjobs, I’m not clear wherein lies the improvement.”

    It’s a zero to .0001% improvement, if that. It’s something Chappelle’s show might make an angle of, but no one else would touch. Shrillary, Kristen, gdad, I know you’re ready to hate all things racist, all things, tea party, all things guns, all things Republican, etc, etc, etc. BUT knowing a number of tea partiers, I’m just telling you that there is more to the meaning of the words on the sign than you realize. I’m NOT defending it and actually think the tact is quite detrimental. Most people think sexual innuendo is funny, but racial innuendo is not. Regardless of what degree of racist they are or aren’t, they ought to realize how bad the signs make them look.

  50. gdad | July 16, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    #49 Actually, John W, I absolutely do NOT hate all things gun or all things Republican.

  51. John Wilburn | July 16, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Walker:

    “47.@46 – I agree 100%. I could care less about the Stars and Bars (either way)”

    To me, this group is extremely similar to the occupiers in that it’s a swirling pile of mixed, small messages. So we have a 3rd National Confederate Flag atop a flagpole with a golden cross topper commonly seen with the Christian Flag, A Ron Paul campaign sign, a variant of the Gadsen Flag, something about coal, a Romney sign, and assorted anti-Obama stuff…. I bet there was ICLEI Agenda 21, NDAA, UN small arms treaty, and a host of other stuff in there still.

    Occupiers do the same thing with different messages.

    While both groups have some good points to make, I think this is the reason that both groups won’t have a lot of staying power.

  52. John Wilburn | July 16, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    gdad:

    50.”#49 Actually, John W, I absolutely do NOT hate all things gun or all things Republican.”

    So what do you like about guns or Republicans. I have yet to read it from any post of yours…

  53. gdad | July 16, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    #52 John W, I’m not getting into this silliness. I will say that there’s not much about the brand of Republican that today’s right wingers demand that I particularly like, but in the past I’ve voted for Republicans, including John Warner and Caldwell Butler. I also don’t particularly like the huge proliferation of guns in the U.S. but I don’t dislike all guns or uses for guns, either.

    However, saying that I don’t particularly like something is NOT the same as hating.

  54. John Wilburn | July 17, 2012 at 12:16 am

    gdad:

    53.”#52 John W, I’m not getting into this silliness.”

    How was I to know? There is no level of silliness you won’t get into with Suzie, terps, or pammala. I’m glad to know the guy who refers to Republicans as “rethugs” and the only negative commenter on the VCDL picnic thread sees a silver lining. Maybe one day, he’ll share it.

    Later gdad. Hope you’ll come out when we have some kind of blogger get-together.

  55. gdad | July 17, 2012 at 9:42 am

    #54 Only negative commenter on the picnic thread? Yeah, I guess the guy who got his car bumper stickered (at another event apparently) wasn’t being negative.

    My comment on the picnic thread wasn’t about the picnic but about my observation as to why I think the average American simply doesn’t see 2A rights being trampled the way your average gun lover does. It’s a losing perception battle for you guys when there are hundreds of millions of guns available to most anybody who wants one.

    I’m sorry of that horribly negative opinion upset you so much. I didn’t realize that the picnic thread was only for folks with comments about what an incredibly wonderful event it was or for observations about how there wasn’t any violence (duh).

    If there ever is a blogger event I likely will be there.

  56. Shrillary | July 17, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    #49 John Wilburn posted, “Shrillary, Kristen, gdad, I know you’re ready to hate all things racist, all things, tea party, all things guns, all things Republican, etc, etc, etc. ”

    John, you don’t “know” what I hate, and I certainly don’t “hate” guns for goodness sakes. I have mentioned in past posts that my family is full of police personnel – if you hadn’t noticed – they carry guns and I love them. There are hunters in my family,I love them, and don’t hate guns. Do not assume sir, that you “know” me.

    Just as I don’t assume you “hate” police, although you have spent much time on past threads denigrating them. Remember? Why should I assume you hate them? I believe you may dislike them or their behavior, but hate? No.

    I do not hate all things “tea party” or Republican. Assigning this strong word when you have never met me, nor spoken to me personally is the definition of jumping to an erroneous conclusion,. My parents were/are republicans – I love them, as I do many of my wrong thinking relatives. Because I don’t agree with their political perspective does not rise to “hate”. How do you make the leap from disagreeing to hate? Interesting perspective.

    Many in the “Tea Party”, in my opinion, are racist, old white social security recipients who have no idea about the constitution nor “states’ rights” – I doubt that most have ever studied or read the Constitution [I have, btw, so I am not being disingenuous].

    Do I believe – and I will admit to using the derogatory term teabaggers -that they are hateful? Yes. Racist? Yes. Wrong-minded? Yes. Unpatriotic? Yes. Hate them? No. As any good Catholic knows, it is a sin to hate….

    I do not assign emotions to you without personally knowing you, so how dare you…

  57. gdad | July 17, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    #54 Don’t look now, John W, but I think I’ve been out-negatived by a long shot on the picnic thread. And with a type of comment I would NEVER make.

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