Tuesday’s column: It took 3 tries for her to renew her license
An old one of mine . . .
Cathy Wilkinson of Blue Ridge turned 60 last month, and along with that milestone came a pesky necessity: renewing her Virginia driver’s license. Her adventure might make for a good episode of “Seinfeld.”
After three trips to the Department of Motor Vehicles, one visit to the post office and a flurry of phone calls to New York, she is $38 poorer. But she finally triumphed over the indifferent bureaucracy.
Wilkinson offers this cautionary advice: Whatever you do, renew your license before it expires, or you may be in for the hassle she went through.
The retired Roanoke County schoolteacher has lived in Virginia since 1974, when she moved here from New York to attend Roanoke College.
“I’ve had a license for 42 years,” she said. “No tickets, no accidents.”
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
July 10, 2012 - 6:00 AM
I don’t know who she talked to at the Post Office but her old certificate would not have gotten her a passport. We just got ours and my wife had the same type of certificate. The Passport Clerk told us she would submit it but it probably would get sent back. Sure enough we got a letter stating my wife’s application was on hold until the certificate with the raised seal was submitted.
So the second moral to this story is for everyone to also check your birth certificate. If you don’t have the raised seal it’s not the real deal.
You know that birth certificate with the raised seal is BS.
I have a sealed birth certificate stemming from an adoption and I can’t get an original copy. All I can get is a paper copy with updated information that was prepared 6 months after I was born and was finally placed with my parents.
I have been able to use this seal-less document to get two passports, my drivers license, a replacement social security card, and numerous proof of citizenship requests when I’ve changed jobs 3-4 times in the past 20 years.
I went through the exact same issue last year when I let my license expire and had to renew it. I looked on the DMV website before I went there so I would know what to bring with me. It stated to bring in proof of residence which included – utility bill, mortgage statement, or credit card statement. I brought those in along with my old license. No go. Was told to bring in birth certificate. The old birth certificate I had was not good enough due to no raised seal.
So I had to call and order a new birth certificate from Vital Statistics, then head back to the DMV where I finally got my license renewed.
It was my fault for letting the thing expire though. Rules change sometimes for obtaining permits or licenses and it was my responsibility to keep up with what is needed of me.
My gripes were that the DMV webiste was not clear or correct on exactly what proof of residence was needed to renew a license, and then once I did find out what was needed there was no mention either by a DMV employee or on the website of your certificate being required to have a raised seal.
Now I know.
Dan
I am still amazed that you cannot see the extreme irony of pushing government run health care while you write stories about how the government is not even competent enough to run the DMV.
Now – imagine someone is required to have a DMV issued ID to vote…..
Moral of the story? Be responsible for yourself and don’t miss deadlines or let your stuff expire. Laziness possibly? Again another story of “It’s her own fault.”
I just recently applied for a Passport. Clearly states you need a raised seal on the application. Clerk also said they wouldn’t accept it any other way. Had to get mine from NY vital statistics.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79955.pdf
Page 2, Category 1 – Also talks about it in FAQ on the Trave.state.gov FAQ section.
Since the DMV has a reputation for bad experiences, let me tell you about my experience getting a new license. I set aside lots of time several weeks ago to sit and wait thinking the process would take forever, but I was in and out of the DMV in Christiansburg in less than 10 minutes. And everyone was friendly and efficient! If my license had expired though, I might have had a different story…
Getting consistent info from DMV employees is like getting consistent Bible verse interpretations from different Christian denominations–it doesn’t happen.
Seems typical for a state that can’t manage to get the power turned back on for over a week because the wind blew 60mph.
I agree with terps.Dan would feel all fuzzy with gov running everthing!
Speaking of DMV, has anyone used the DMV’s online site to order tags and such? Its always a mess… you can barely renew plates. I tried to order a new set of plates online and could never get the transaction to work.
@Blacksburg Suz – They have to have said DMV issued ID to purchase an adult beverage at dinner.
My husband had a similar experience a few years ago. He went to renew his license a couple of days after his birthday and DMV confiscated the license and then told him he needed a birth certificate or passport among other items to renew. He couldn’t find his birth certificate and contacted Pennsylvania for one, but couldn’t order it because he didn’t have a valid driver’s license proving his identity. I couldn’t order the birth certificate because I’m not a blood relative, so we had to ask his son to order the certificate.
Last year, I went to renew my license a week before my birthday and was told that I couldn’t renew it because I had a lien against it from New York – and yet I was able to obtain a Virginia license a few years prior. When I moved from NY, I sent my plates back to NY DMV, but didn’t officially notify them that I’d moved out of state (even though I completed a change of address form with the Post Office) and NY was listing me as a resident with unpaid car insurance – I have had the same insurance on my car since I began driving. So I was breaking the law in NY, except that I didn’t live in NY and wasn’t breaking any laws in VA. Go figure. I spent two days on the phone to NY DMV correcting the problem, luckily for me I went early enough that my license wasn’t expired and didn’t get confiscated. It’s scary how easy it is for someone to slip through the cracks and get stuck in a downward spiral of driving on an expired license and then get arrested for breaking the law.
#4 Could you point out the DMV incompetency in this story, terps? It appears they followed their rules, which were tightened at least in part to keep terrorists from getting fake IDs.
I’ll wait for your answer.
This is just another example of big government run amok.
The only time liberals are against big government is when you have to show your ID to vote.
Go figure.
UTR, that’s interesting because I just got my passport last year. No Raised Seal was needed. I went right to the courthouse in my county with my Social Security Card, and a copy of my “Original Certificate of Live Birth” which was issued months after I was born with my new parents names, and signed by a state health official… but has no raised seal.
I went into getting my passport with the idea that I might need a document that is impossible for me to get after hearing other horror stories, so I brought documentation of my adoption and the sealing of my original birth certificate as well. They told me it wasn’t necessary. Now I hold in my hands a passport.
Looking at your link… it states:
“the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records (state, country, or city/town office), and the full names of your parents.”
aka, no raised seal is necessary if you can prove it in another way.
The instructions are clear. The dates are in writing. “The back of the renewal form noted this, but Wilkinson had overlooked that.”
No amount of “she’s a cancer patient” or “she never even got a ticket” and “going to the DMV is like having a root canal” changes the fact that she caused her own inconvenience through her own oversights and missed deadlines. It’s just not that hard to do what pretty much everyone else does without blaming the DMV (who behaved professionally and courteously).
So much whining.
Same experience moving to VA. My Florida License was one week from expiring when I went to VA DMV. I had my original Birth Certificate complete with my baby footprints on it. Not good enough. I had to Renew my Florida License online. Florida even sent it to my VA Address as I waited for a Seal Birth Certificate. So I spent $35 on a Florida License and $40 on a new Birth Certificate just so they could take my new Florida License and stamp VOID on it before they could sell me a Virginia License.
Welcome to Virginia.
Just remember everyone. It’s never your fault.
“They have to have said DMV issued ID to purchase an adult beverage at dinner.”
Wrong. Absolutely wrong. RightWing, have you ever bought a drink without being carded? Right. You have. You did not need your ID.
#9 And what did that have to do with the state, William Bova?
gdad is right. This is not a story about DMV incompetency. It’s more about the DMV competently following rules established for it by the General Assembly, that are not necessarily well thought out, and that, occasionally, wind up causing needless aggravation to 60-year-old women who have been driving for 42 years without a ticket or an accident in that entire time. There are other similar stories on this thread.
#12 Really, Right Wing? I haven’t presented a DMV-issued ID to order a drink in decades.
#18 Gotta look tough in the face of them muslems, Dan.
And I bet most everyone b*tching about the DMV in this thread are among the same who b*tch about what a crappy job the gubmint is doing protecting us law-abiding citizens from identity thieves and other undesirables. I don’t know about raised seals or not, but I’m glad I’m expected to provide actual, un-counterfeit-able proof of who I am in order to get a state-issued ID. And if I neglect to renew my license in time, then I expect the onus to be on *me* not the DMV to pull together the necessary paperwork to get a new one.
tass, if the experience had simply been that she renewed late, didn’t bring her BC, then had to go home and get it there would have been no story, no column, whatever.
The fact that she went home and got it, that it was the same BC she originally used to get her Va driver’s license, that the Virginia Retirement System accepted it as proof of identify for a pension, and that someone in the post office told her it would be acceptable to get a passport puts a different shade on the matter.
Blame it on her all you want to, but before doing so please explain this: How is it Cathy Wilkinson’s fault that THE ONLY BIRTH CERTIFICATE SHE’S EVER OWNED was no good for the DMV?
Call the post office passport department. Ask what type of birth certificate you need or identification as there are others.
Re: Comment by William Bova — July 10, 2012 @ 9:36 am
Once again, what would you have had the “State” do?
More expansion into the internal operations of a private business?
“How is it Cathy Wilkinson’s fault that THE ONLY BIRTH CERTIFICATE SHE’S EVER OWNED was no good for the DMV?”
Well Dan, it all changed when those nasty bad guys starting using modern technology, aka laser printers, to forge government documents. Since you seem to have forgotten, they did this largely due to the ease with which some of the 9/11 terrorists obtained VA licenses/ID cards under the old system. Remember how the “government” was soundly criticized by all parties for not doing enough to prevent the attacks? Well, heavens to Betsy, they reacted and changed some of the requirements for documentation needed to get a state ID because, I know it is hard to understand and at times it may be inconvenient, but sometimes security measures have to change to keep up with the times. Now you can’t just get someone to sign an affidavit saying you live there and you can’t just print out a birth certificate at home. Hoops to jump through? Sure. Inconvenient? At times, yes. But what was the right response? Leave things as they were?
Are you really going to argue that in the modern era, we should leave the documentation requirements as they were FORTY-TWO YEARS AGO, just because it used to be that way and it would be more convenient for people who don’t pay attention to detail?
Uptheriver there are other things you can use as second ID but you have to have your birth certificate or citizenship papers. Also, it doesn’t matter what the post office or court clerk says, what matters is what the state department does when they get your application. My wife’s got sent back because the only birth certificate she has ever owned didn’t have a raised seal.
I don’t have an issue with the column today but I also don’t have an issue with the DMV policy change. Virginia was one of the easiest states to get a fake ID prior to 9/11. I’m glad they changed the requirements.
As for the nice lady’s driving record, all I can say about that is there are lots of people with clean driving records. It doesn’t mean they should have different rules.
Ah, the old blue driver’s license. I liked that one and the blue one after it, but that awful two-picture thing they issue now is the worst. I got in under the wire and still have a blue license, but come fall will have to go to the new one.
#25 un-counterfeit-able? Yeah Right…
5.”Now – imagine someone is required to have a DMV issued ID to vote…..”
…or the free little voter card they get when the register.
22.gdad is right. This is not a story about DMV incompetency. It’s more about the DMV competently following rules established for it by the General Assembly, that are not necessarily well thought out, and that, occasionally, wind up causing needless aggravation to 60-year-old women who have been driving for 42 years without a ticket or an accident in that entire time. There are other similar stories on this thread.
Dan
Please tell me you are kidding. You blame this on the General Assembly. Fine. I will buy that. But what is the General Assembly? Part of your beloved and holier than thou GOVERNMENT.
Dan, you can’t wiggle out of this because this story is about government incompetence at all levels and your answer to every problem is to give us more government incompetence.
Chuck, the question was posed to tass, who said the whole thing was Cathy Wilkinson’s fault.
Neither of you has yet answered how it was her fault that the only birth certificate she has ever owned turned out to be no good for the DMV this time around.
Thank you Chuck. Good grief.
It sounds as if terps wants me to promise to never again write about government incompetence.
Sorry, not going to make that one.
#4 terps – DMV is a state agency. I have not heard many complaints by seniors [including teabaggers] about the government-run Social Security or Medicare programs, nor have I heard veterans who receive benefits complain about their access to medical or have any delay in their war related disability payments…
State does not = Federal Govt.
This is an absolute hoot to read through! Can’t handle a storm, can’t figure-out how to issue a driver’s license, wonder what is next, can’t figure-out how to build a bridge, heat a school, pave a street?
The only fault I can find with the DMV here is that the clerk should have told the customer to make sure the birth certificate had the raised seal. Since that is the new policy, and even though it’s been in place for awhile, I’m sure this isn’t the first time it’s happened.
“no good for the DMV this time around.”
Assumed it was good. Was not. Her fault.
VA rules are pretty similar to SC except in SC you have to have at least one vehicle registered in the state, so you go to the DMV to register your vehicle. Then you have to go to the local treasurers’ office and pay the PPT on the vehicle. Then you go back to the DMV with your proof of birth, residency, your wife’s residency, and proof of vehicle tax. It took one trip to get all the information needed and another trip and a whole day in line at each location to actually get the license. Good thing I was young at heart, an elderly person would not have held up to hte 2 hour waits in each line with no chairs.
Billy Bova,
AS IF Mississippi is any better. Give us a break.
Half that state looks worse than many third-world countries. Worst public education system in the country. Billy, you got educated in Virginia, which gives you a huge edge over those fools you’re taking advantage of down there.
#39 Billy, we’re still waiting for you to tell us what the state has to do with Apco getting the power back on.
#34 terps, you seem to be dodging the question. You said earlier that the state wasn’t competent to run the DMV and I asked you to detail exactly what about the story showed their incompetence. How come you haven’t answered?
Re:
Comment by Chuck — July 10, 2012 @ 12:42 pm
Since you seem to have forgotten, they did this largely due to the ease with which some of the 9/11 terrorists obtained VA licenses/ID cards under the old system.
———–
Don’t forget that there was the bribing of a DMV clerk involved. As the system’s integrity is, in great part, dependent on the integrity of the people using/operating/managing it, I not sure how much “safer” we are, today:
http://tinyurl.com/859s7zm
**
Corrupt DMV employee gets 46-month sentence for ID fraud
By: MARK BOWES
A former customer service representative for the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles was sentenced to 46 months in federal prison Friday for helping process driver’s license applications for illegal immigrants in exchange for bribes.
SNIP
**
—–
http://tinyurl.com/86oouoz
**
Twenty-One Defendants Charged for Corruption at Two Southern California DMV Offices
U.S. Attorney’s Office May 02, 2012
SNIP
**
—–
http://tinyurl.com/74r2fdm
**
April 19, 2012
Nashville, TN
State of Tennessee driver’s license supervisor arrested for accepting bribes
SNIP
**
Etc
———
Dropping back in time to pre-9/11
IIRC, when [9/11 hijackers] Hanjour and Almihdhar showed up at DMV, they apparently already had two forms of ID–a passport and a legal visa that would have been accepted — hense all they needed to do was to “prove” their Virginia residence. They had also hired an illegal alien from El Salvador (who was in the business of helping illegal aliens get papers) helped them get driver’s licenses allegedly by certified the forms for both of them.
As we grant DLs to resident, not just citizens, I’m not sure how much things have improved. A foreign passport establishes ID. Excellent forged green cards are available. Someone with an ID (valid or illegally obtained) to certify residence in-state. Got it.
See: http://tinyurl.com/5vybaj
**
Testimony of Bruce Schneier
Security technologist, author, founder and CTO of BT Counterpane
“Will REAL ID Actually Make Us Safer?
An Examination of Privacy and Civil Liberties Concerns”
Senate Judiciary Committee
SNIP
**
Some times I think that a lot of the TSA / HLS etc activity is political theater/circus of the look-like-we-are-doing-something / make-people-feel-better variety.
The real issue here is not just the hoops one person has to jump through that they never had to do before. Many state legislatures update and change things and do precious little to disseminate the information and updates to people. Which causes MANY people to have to jump through new and unexpected hoops and turns something simple into an ordeal. Many new laws “take effect” every July 1 and it is yet another chore to find out what they are and how they might impact you.
For people who have to deal with the DMV often, they can tell you it is often a hassle, often involves two trips, often means the clerk got it wrong in the first place and often leads to frustration. Sure it is hard to accept that in the electronic age, proof of identity is still so hard to do and so easy to steal but C’est la vie.
What cracks me up is the same people who “hate” the government, civil service “leeches” and any bureaucracy on a daily basis, are here defending the DMV. Priceless, and telling.
In looking at the DMV’s website, nowhere does it say that you must have the “raised seal” on the birth certificate. It just states that it must be an official birth document, and having used the copy she had for other transactions, how would Ms. Wilkinson know her birth certificate was not “official”?
I let my license expire last year, having the same misunderstanding as Ms. Wilkinson (thought it expired at the end of the month). The first time I went to the DMV, all of their computers were down, so I ran some errands and came back later that day. Computers were still down. I waited a week and went back, armed with my expired license, birth certificate, and marriage license (I was also changing my name). I was in and out pretty quickly and my only complaint is that I hate the photo.
The Va. DMV got slammed for the licenses given to some 9/11 figures, but it still took a long time to correct the problems, and they might have eventually overreacted. In case you missed them, probably the final impetus were these hilarious videos done by some crazy VCU students, several years after 9/11 (video part 2 has apparently been removed from YT):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOFf_KB3lI
Voting Solutions
1. Provide FREE Picture Voter ID’s to those who need it. (Must provide appropriate documentation)
2. Indelible ink on thumbs of all who vote.
3. Remove all party affiliation from Candidates names on ballet (Now some folks will have to edjumicate themselves, I can see the head scratching now)
ballot – sorry
Some believe that government rules are great, as long as they only apply to someone else; and don’t inconvenience “me”.
This reminds me of the “tax the rich” attitude; it’s all good until “my” pay is defined as “rich”.
Maybe something to remember for anyone who desires to one day make 250k or 150k or 50k or whatever the newest government definition of “rich” might be…
Dan, re: your pic… you seem to have the same hair problem I have encountered…
first it turns grey, then it turns lose… lol
What doesn’t seem to make any sense to me, is if others came with the 9/11 terrorists, and obtained a VA driver’s license fraudulently in 2001 like the others in that “cell”- if they did not participate or die in the attacks – then what prevents them from renewing by mail their fraudulent DLs? They would need only to send in a check or money order, and, without the hassle experienced by Cathy Wilkerson, have their new driver’s license and a form of ID. Still terrorists, still in VA, still in the US… just saying.
Walker your solutions will solve nothing as then we will argue over “appropriate documentation” and you know it. Your condescension aside, few people actually make the effort to go to the polls without knowing the names of the candidates they are voting for and the TP/GOP has just as many sycophants who would vote for the letter as any other party!
Mike O, “rich” is based on poor and when 50K is “rich” this nation has finally achieved the TP/GOP dream of compliant labor.
“Neither of you has yet answered how it was her fault that the only birth certificate she has ever owned turned out to be no good for the DMV this time around.”
Nice diversion Dan, but as you noted, I never said it was her fault. I was reacting your implication that the DMV was somehow at fault for updating their standards. It’s not her fault that the old certificate is no longer acceptable. It is her fault for letting her license expire and for not reading the renewal form. As I said, you can try to divert from the issue by acting as if I am attacking this lady when I am not. The question is, why are making your implicit attack on the DMV for updating their standards? Again, are you arguing that they should never change their standards? Have they somehow violated your right not to be inconvenienced or offended?
Sandi, yours is the telling approach. You always love the philosophy of a big government that has its hand in everything, yet anytime the issue actually involves government workers or agencies, you constantly deride them inefficient, inconvenient, overbearing, power-hungry, etc. So you like the idea of the all powerful nanny government as long as they don’t use government workers or agencies to do it. Is that it? You’re right, telling indeed. And for the record, I’m not anti-government, I’m anti-stupid-libera-government.
LEADERSHIP, LEADERSHIP, this is the leadership you get under Bob McDonnell and a state legislature that is more concerned about “transvaginal” probes than taking care of business!!!
Virginia: Road to Trouble
So what happened to Virginia — last year’s top state?
The Commonwealth is still a contender, finishing a solid third overall. But it faltered in two categories in particular: Infrastructure and Economy.
Infrastructure — specifically the state’s perpetually clogged highways — has long been an issue in fast-growing Virginia, and there is fresh evidence this year that the state is having trouble keeping pace. With some of the country’s toughest commutes, the state dipped to number 33 in the category, down from 10th a year ago.
Virginia’s economy remains in the top tier. But it has suffered in part due to circumstances beyond its control. The state’s proximity to Washington, DC has helped in previous years. Late last year, however, Moody’s slapped a negative outlook on Virginia’s otherwise pristine bond rating because of the federal government’s fiscal crisis. That contributed to Virginia slipping to 10th from eighth in our Economy category this year.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47818860
While still the envy of most states, Virginia declined in a total of six categories in 2012. The other four are Cost of Doing Business (32/21), Education (13/6),Technology & Innovation (14/11) and Business Friendliness (4/3). In this competition, you can’t post that many declines and stay on top — or, it turns out, finish second either.
Sandi nails this in a big way!!!
What cracks me up is the same people who “hate” the government, civil service “leeches” and any bureaucracy on a daily basis, are here defending the DMV. Priceless, and telling.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 10, 2012 @ 2:50 pm
Chuck, I get it that you need to lash out, but you are not telling the truth, you are projecting.
I do not “always love the philosophy of a big government that has its hand in everything” that is a lie. It is not true that “anytime the issue actually involves government workers or agencies, (I) constantly deride them inefficient, inconvenient, overbearing, power-hungry, etc“. I tell the truth and will not sugar coat it just to support civil service, but I have never called them leeches, lazy or the other right wing insults that malign all civil workers. It is not true that I “like the idea of the all powerful nanny government” and it is insane to say “as long as they don’t use government workers or agencies to do it“. Who the hell else would they get? I am not necessarily “pro-government”, I just have enough sense to know a nation of 50 states and 310 million people needs federal standards and federal oversight on many things. It is what it needs to be, even when that is imperfect. The DMV is no more or less efficient, cooperative and easy to deal with than many of the vendors, people and workers I deal with every day. They also do not get to write the rules they labor under and I know that.
Sandi,
The RWers will be satisfied when:
1. The minimum wage is abolished;
2. Child labor laws are repealed;
3. Social security is abolished;
4. Medicare has ended;
5. No worker has a pension; or employer-subsidized health insurance;
6. Unions cease to exist;
7. The 40-hour work week is changed to 60 hours –in other words, no overtime;
8. Congress, after #6 happens, passes a law outlawing collective bargaining;
9. Laws against workplace/public accommodations discrimination are undone;
10. Women no longer have a right to vote;
11. The EPA is disbanded, because we have already protected everything we need to and no more enforcement or vigilance is necessary.
None of this is “a plan.” All of it is a reaction, and a regression. The right-wing is stuck in the past, fighting old battles and opening old wounds that were closed long ago.
Funny coincidence:
I just got off the phone with Cathy Wilkinson, who said she loved the column — friends have been calling her all day about it.
She had no idea that I was going to liken her experience to an episode of Seinfeld — but as it turns out, she went to high school on Long Island with Jerry Seinfeld himself.
Cathy graduated in 1970; Seinfeld, she said, graduated in 1972, and was in her younger sister’s class. I asked if she was high school pals with the funnyman. The answer was not really.
“He didn’t stand out,” Cathy said. “He was really kind of a nerd.”
Dan, a correction to your thesis. The RW will be satisfied when they have to pay zero taxes to support the government that the rest of the nation finances, and that they benefit from greatly, while sacrificing nothing. They’ll be satisfied when there are no ethical or moral hurdles to their pursuit of more money. Not income – that is earned, but from money, regardless of the source. Just ask Cemetery Boy. He’s in the pocket of ‘Big Coal’ and more importantly their financiers up beyond his nose…
‘Sandi,
The RWers will be satisfied when:
1. The minimum wage is abolished;
2. Child labor laws are repealed;
3. Social security is abolished;
4. Medicare has ended;
5. No worker has a pension; or employer-subsidized health insurance;
6. Unions cease to exist;
7. The 40-hour work week is changed to 60 hours –in other words, no overtime;
8. Congress, after #6 happens, passes a law outlawing collective bargaining;
9. Laws against workplace/public accommodations discrimination are undone;
10. Women no longer have a right to vote;
11. The EPA is disbanded, because we have already protected everything we need to and no more enforcement or vigilance is necessary.
None of this is “a plan.” All of it is a reaction, and a regression. The right-wing is stuck in the past, fighting old battles and opening old wounds that were closed long ago.’
The RWers will be satisfied when:
1. The minimum wage is abolished;
2. Child labor laws are repealed;
3. Social security is abolished;
4. Medicare has ended;
5. No worker has a pension; or employer-subsidized health insurance;
6. Unions cease to exist;
7. The 40-hour work week is changed to 60 hours –in other words, no overtime;
8. Congress, after #6 happens, passes a law outlawing collective bargaining;
9. Laws against workplace/public accommodations discrimination are undone;
10. Women no longer have a right to vote;
11. The EPA is disbanded, because we have already protected everything we need to and no more enforcement or vigilance is necessary.
Dan is so loony, these measures are outrageous to him, but iff we implemented these, the country would be a much better place. I wouldn’t place a figure on the work week length. It’s whatever an employer and employee agree upon.
The fact that suzie agrees that Dan’s list would make the country a better place says all that needs to be said about the extreme greed and selfishness. Of the right wing nut 1%ers like her. It’s all about the Benjamins to people like her and m howdyshell .
Funny that somebody should mention problems with the DMV computer system — you know, that system that was outsourced to a PRIVATE company and has been nothing but trouble since? My mother could have put together a better system.
Note that Terps has yet to show any proof that the DMV was in the least incompetent in this episode. I wonder why he made up that lie?
To answer the question concerning any fake VA IDs. Those VA IDs would be the old ones so they will eventually expire and will not be renewable by mail.
“Wrong. Absolutely wrong. RightWing, have you ever bought a drink without being carded? Right. You have. You did not need your ID.”
Dan, actually, no I have not. I’m still in my mid-20′s so I have to present my ID every single time I buy a drink.
“I’m still in my mid-20′s so I have to present my ID every single time I buy a drink.”
OK, RightWing, this means that you believe everyone is always carded because that has been your personal experience. This is pretty much Michael Howdyshell’s outlook on everything.
But you’re wrong. Not everyone needs ID to buy a drink. And you can’t logically assume everyone does just because you always do.
Rightwing should quit complaining about being carded to buy alcohol! You’ll be an old fart like the rest of us soon enough. Then you’d wish they would card you. I wish I was young enough to be carded again!
Oops. I forgot to put the word “humor” in brackets in my last post. I promised some of the guys over in the gun thread that I would tell them when I was being humorous.
#62 suzie admits it agrees with every one of these. That puts her in .00025 percent of all voters.
#64 BTW, after that private company seriously screwed up the state computer system, Rethugs agreed they had done so well that they awarded them billions more of our money. But you see, because it’s a private company, that’s OK.
Dan, yes you’re correct that not everyone has to be carded to buy alcohol but I do every single time. I have to provide a gov’t issued ID and had to go through DMV requirements to obtain said ID. To bring this back to the debate about voter ID requirements, if I and every other young-ish person who chooses to buy an alcoholic drink have to go through these steps to simply buy a drink then why shouldn’t we have to do the same to place a vote for the people who write the laws that we have to live by? I think the privilege to have a say in who legislates the nation is far more important than buying a pack of smokes or a beer.
Re: Comment by Alfred E. — July 11, 2012 @ 9:05 am
LOL
Years ago, there was (and may still be, as far as I know) a upscale restaurant in Atlanta that carded everyone — no exception.
It was rumored that it was a gimmick to attract an older crowd — who were flattered by thinking….
.
.
If Miss Suzie truly feels that women should not have the right to vote, then she shouldn’t vote herself. Otherwise, she’s a hypocrite.
#62 suzie admits it agrees with every one of these. That puts her in .00025 percent of all voters.
That puts me with the Tea Party majority, the same group that gained the GOP 64 House seats in 2010. It’s you fringe kooks who are the tiny minority.
Re: Comment by gdad — July 11, 2012 @ 9:12 am
Wow!
It also confirms Dan’s point, beyond any doubt or argument that unless / until some of other of the other folk on the right / other conservatives on this blog weigh in to argue / dispute old Rants & Raves (w/ lies).
Remember, Dan didn’t said only the “Extreme” Right. So, old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) has stepped up to confirm that what Dan said is true of all of the “Right.”
FWIIW, I don’t think that it is true of all of them. However, as a moderate, it’s not my place to speak for the conservatives on this blog.
Wonder if they will confirm their sock puppet status, by letting old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) define that the driving force for all of the right is being “stuck in the past, fighting old battles and opening old wounds that were closed long ago”?
Or will they dispute Dan’s assertions and discredited the confirmation that Dan is right made by old Rants & Raves (w/ lies)?
Come on RWs. Do you agree with the Comment by Suzie — July 10, 2012 @ 9:47 pm that “[if] we implemented these [Dan's list of what would satisfy the RWers], the country would be a much better place”?
Hum?
Let’s see. Michaela is in her 20s. RightWing is in his 20s. Notice you aren’t allowed to challenge the liberal girl, but liberals are rather rude to the young conservative.
Two standards.
Well well now, another snobby-elitist comment from my transplanted yankee friend, tells me I live in the 3rd world right here in ‘Merica!
Billy Bova,
AS IF Mississippi is any better. Give us a break.
Half that state looks worse than many third-world countries. Worst public education system in the country. Billy, you got educated in Virginia, which gives you a huge edge over those fools you’re taking advantage of down there.
Comment by Dan Casey — July 10, 2012 @ 2:34 pm
“If I and every other young-ish person who chooses to buy an alcoholic drink have to go through these steps to simply buy a drink then why shouldn’t we have to do the same to place a vote for the people who write the laws that we have to live by? I think the privilege to have a say in who legislates the nation is far more important than buying a pack of smokes or a beer.”
Because, RightWing, voting is a right enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. It’s not a “privilege.”
Buying booze is not a right.
“That puts me with the Tea Party majority, the same group that gained the GOP 64 House seats in 2010. It’s you fringe kooks who are the tiny minority.”
There are how many seats in the House of Representatives? 435? 64 is hardly a majority. Anybody with BS in engineering ought to know that. Unless BS stands for bullsh–.
Interesting article about Mississippi’s new voter ID law. The new ID is free, but impossible for some people to obtain (by design, perhaps?).
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/06/511716/to-get-voter-id-mississippi-voters-need-birth-certificate-to-get-birth-certificate-they-need-id/
@79 – There is no constitutional right to vote in a presidential election Dan. Period.
“Suzie says:
Let’s see. Michaela is in her 20s. RightWing is in his 20s. Notice you aren’t allowed to challenge the liberal girl, but liberals are rather rude to the young conservative.
Two standards.
Posted on July 11th, 2012″
What do you care? People in their early 20s don’t know squat about anything, remember?
And obviously, you were allowed to challenge the ‘liberal girl’, because your posts doing so are right here in black and white.
#75 Wow, Oliver, I didn’t know that the TP didn’t want women to have the right to vote,. That makes them even crazier than I thought. And definitely not a majority — or even close.
#77 Now let’s see, we just found put that RightWing is in his or her 20s and not one single person has been rude to him/her since then. Project, much, toots?
Yeah, in Mississippi, you can get a state-issued photo ID if you have an acceptable birth certificate.
But to get an acceptable birth certificate, you need a state-issued Photo ID!
It’s a great catch-22 that will surely leave many seniors and young adults unable to vote!
#81 From the articl;e:
“State officials are running into problems with the new voter-identification law even before the federal government has approved or rejected it. Voters without a photo ID are facing a circular problem: They need a certified birth certificate to get the voter ID, and they need a photo ID to get the birth certificate.
Pamela Weaver, spokeswoman of the Mississippi Secretary of State’s office, today confirmed the catch-22 problem, which the Jackson Free Press learned about from a complaint posted on Facebook. One of the requirements to get the free voter ID cards is a birth certificate, but in order to receive a certified copy of your birth certificate in Mississippi, you must have a photo ID. Not having the photo ID is why most people need the voter ID in the first place.”
Either Mississippi legislators are dumb hicks or they’re purposely trying to keep people from voting. One or the other.
Gdad,
The law was definitely designed to disenfranchise voters. In terms of the presidential election, though the state of Mississippi probably doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. It’s going to go for Romney, no question about it, no matter how many voters they manage to disenfranchise or not.
More likely, it’s a model for states down the road. If Mississippi can get away with this garbage (if it survives court challenges, etc.) then other potential swing states can use their law as a model for the future.
“Because, RightWing, voting is a right enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.”
@Dan, a right enshrined by the U.S. Constitution for CITIZENS of the US. Why not require proof of citizenship before pressing the vote button. I’m not arguing that we should limit access to polls or make it harder to vote, just require people to prove that they are who they say they are before “pulling the lever.” Literally all that I have to do when I vote is state my name and address. What is keeping me from showing up at your polling place and using your name and address (which I’m sure is easily pulled from the phone book or from Roanoke City GIS system) to fasley cast a vote for Mr. Romney this November?
RightWing,
Believe it or not, there are foreign nationals in the US who have state-issued photo ID driver’s licenses. If they wanted to violate the law and vote, and all they needed to do it was a photo ID, there would be no problem.
But that’s not all that they need to vote…they still have to be on a registered voter and on the rolls at their designated polling place before they can cast their vote. The point you’re missing is that I’m saying we need to verify the identity of the person showing up and claiming to be registered voter John Doe at the polls. I’m certainly not saying that the possession of a gov’t issued picture ID should allow anyone to vote.
Walker has a point, there is no constitutional right to breath in the constitution either. I have no doubt that those who fought and died under the banner of “no taxation without representation” would be offended at the idea people think their right to vote is “protected”.
I’m 37 and I have only been carded for alcohol maybe 5 times in my life. Usually only when I’m with someone who looks underage. And never once while in a casino either (when I was slightly underage.)
I blame the beard I’ve had since I was 16.
RightWing, I would like to think that “what is keeping you” from voting for another person is the fact that it is a felony. If the laws do not keep most of us from doing something wrong, we are in some serious voodoo.
RW< I'm not sure where you vote, but I have to show ID to vote at Back Creek Elementary
scott, I wish my facial hair I’ve had since about age 12, combined with my shiny dome, would negate the need to be carded, but it happens to me all the time. I guess shaving my head makes me look younger than my nearly 32 years, but if I let my hair grow out just a little, no carding. But with Scott A’s comment, I’ve shown ID to vote since moving to Pulaski County, either my driver’s license or my voter card. I’ve honestly never thought to not show it, so I have never attempted to vote by just giving a name and address without a form of proof, except for the times I voted via absentee ballot when I was in college, but still registered to vote in Virginia Beach.
The Chair and Executive Director, along with party attorneys, of the Mississippi Democratic Party are in close contact with the United States Department of Justice concerning and related to all voter photo ID matters in Mississippi, rest assured.
Dan,
Re: “RWers will be satisfied when”
Do you truly believe that?
Aside from (possibly) the EPA note I would suggest none of those…
Would it be sadly fair to say that the LW’ers will be satisfied when:
1. All companies are owned by Government
2. No children must clean their rooms
3. Those under 65 must pay all the expense of those who came before them.
4. Once one reached and unproductive state we discard them.
5. Everything is free until you reach the age of #3
6. Unions rule all business
7. On may choose when they choose to work and must receive pay no matter the hours.
8. Congress passes legislation that private business cannot choose their employees
9. A “headache” qualifies for discrimination
10. White males qualify for 9/10th of a vote
11. The EPA can rule on how long you may take a shower.
Might these be equally ridiculous examples of the “other“ extreme???
They would be if you did not believe them to be true Mike O. As it is, they are just sad proof of what we are up against. Dan was kidding, I don’t think for a moment you are.
#98 mike o,
“Would it be sadly fair to say that the LW’ers will be satisfied when:
1. All companies are owned by Government”
Boy, it kind of sucks when you try to make 10 points but fail miserably on your very first attempt. I couldn’t get past the first one but I still have to ask you; do the other nine make you look just as foolish?
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/06/what-socialism-looks-like/18675/
Does the “o” stand for obtuse?
#97 And thank goodness they are, William Bova, since it’s readily apparent that Mississippi Repubs can’t tell their a–es from a hole in the ground. Either that or they’re purposely trying to keep people from voting.
Which one is it?
Re: security theater / circus
http://tinyurl.com/cnesl7o
**
TSA should explain — or end — its body scanner program
by Walter Olson on July 12, 2012
A year ago the D.C. Circuit told the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) that it needed to go through notice-and-comment rulemaking for its controversial program of full-body scanners at airports.
SNIP
**
You are all crazy, the point is that is if it can be forged you can easliy forge all of it. If you been issued a license you already got it, to renew it should not be a hassle really, especially when they required a Social Security card now and when I showed all the documents. I mean all the documents they still would not accept a 1044 form, a utility bill, a birth certificate, a passport. If one was able to get these to prove citizenship and location to access their license renewal. I think if they can get these documents , it seems harder than to forge a license. So anyway I obey the law and submit to my govt and they end up making me get a social security card. So i get it , and the first thing the Social Security people want is a license and proof of citizenship’s and some basic info. the same stuff the DMV wanted, that was not enough.