Friendly on the Friday OPEN thread
Shot by Dan
“George Bush is a fan of mine, he came to see me in the Seventies. His coke dealer brought him.”
Tom Waits
September 28, 2012 - 10:00 AM
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Sunday, May 19, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Jorma Kaukonen coming to Kirk Music Hall Oct. 6!
Rather ironic since Obama admits to doing cocaine in his autobiography.
Obama admits to it. Bush is merely rumored to have done it. Which does the media cover?
I want to know if Tom Waits is a “white guy”.
Re: the RT’s “Thursday letters — Pick of the day: Doing violence to free speech [ http://tinyurl.com/cy9f73m ]
And indirectly, Mark Jurkevich’s A convenient myth about Islamic anger towards the U.S. [ http://tinyurl.com/c6h38cb ]
——————
http://tinyurl.com/c433pca
**
Big Brother still watching: Internet censorship on the up, report says
By Paul Armstrong, CNN
updated 5:39 AM EDT, Fri September 28, 2012
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
o Report looks at barriers to access, limits on content in 47 countries across the globe
o Authoritarian regimes increasing restrictions as online activism increases
o China has largest number of Internet users and most sophisticated controls
o Many countries fear social media-led revolutions seen in Egypt, Tunisia
SNIP
**
More at:
http://tinyurl.com/d78sb8q
http://tinyurl.com/4buu5so
—————–
IMHO, the quote, “It’s a typical response by officials and quite a successful strategy in making it extremely difficult to spread information beyond some small circles of activists” captures the sort of authoritarian regime censorship that we need to guard against growing in this country.
“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” — Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanack (1738)
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Franklin, part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, – published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818).
Henry @2, GW Bush simply had to deny the use of cocaine – he has never done that – he has always used the line, “…when I was young and irresponsible, I was young” Bush did admit to alcohol abuse after his DUI came to light…
So what’s your point?
Testing, one, two, three
A bit of fun from Ed Brayton.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/09/28/philosopher-pulls-a-sokal-on-theology-conferences/
I’m sure many of you are familiar with the now-infamous Sokal hoax, in which physicist Alan Sokal submitted an article to a postmodernist journal that was, quite literally, gibberish — they accepted it for publication, of course. Now a Belgian philosopher has pulled a similar hoax on two theology conferences.
Dr. Maarten Boudry made up a fake name (an anagram of his real name), Robert A. Maundy, and a fake university, College of the Holy Cross, and submitted a paper to present at a Christian philosophy conference held last year by the Association for Reformational Philosophy. The subject of the conference was “The Future of Creation Order.” You can see the abstract for that paper on page 42 of the link above. And it’s hilarious:….
#2 If Bush had just acknowledged that he did (it seems HIGHLY likely that he did), there’d be no more speculation about it, Henry. Also, any time a right winger brings up Obama’s admission and then tries to pretend that makes him some sort of crackhead, liberals are going to bring up Bush.
This is not good news….for Romney. Bush polled higher:
“Unfavorable Views of Romney Cloud His Message on Economy”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-26/romney-negativity-muddies-message-as-obama-leads-in-poll.html
Re: My last, also check out: http://tinyurl.com/d34sffn
**
SNIP
Magistrate judges swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, the same judicial oath taken by Article III judges. When a federal agent walks into our chambers to request an electronic surveillance order, there is nobody there but us to make sure the Constitution is followed. If we sign a warrant that in our considered opinion violates the Fourth Amendment, then we have violated our solemn oath.
SNIP
**
Now, back to the POTUS campaign. Any hope of the press increase the pressure to get this discussed in detail at press conferences, debates, etc?
http://tinyurl.com/dxg9x6p
**
Why are candidates silent on Supreme Court?
By Jeffrey Toobin, CNN Senior Legal Analyst
updated 8:05 AM EDT, Fri September 28, 2012
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
o Jeffrey Toobin: In this campaign, candidates have been silent on the Supreme Court
o But the court is central to what endures in American government and life, he says
o He says, with justices aging, it’s likely that next president will make an appointment
o Toobin: The candidates should be revealing their plans, philosophies for the court
SNIP
**
Thoughts on this issue?
FWIIW, it is one of the questions that I am the most concerned about — and I don’t trust either candidate on the issue.
Oh look, pammala has a sister:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/28/michelle-obama-look-like-a-first-lady-bobbie-lussier_n_1922236.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics
#12 Oh, lord, not this bigot again.
Dave Hicks, ever met a Magistrate?
“Oh, lord, not this bigot again.”
–prayer by gdad
Prayer is allowed here on Dan Casey’s blog!
#15 Maybe that would help.
gdad@1…
I saw that on Kirk’s schedule and plat to be there. Love me some finger picking. Also should say the Todd Snider show last week was too much fun.
You should also check out the Sons of Bill at Kirk Ave…. these Albemarle County natives ROCK. They filled up the Pavilion with the Infamous Stringdusters a month or so ago, would be amazing to see them in a tiny place like Kirk Ave!
Re: Comment by Sandi Saunders — September 28, 2012 @ 12:29 pm
Dave Hicks, ever met a Magistrate?
———
Yup.
see: http://tinyurl.com/d55enre for details of what they do. Note: “(3) A magistrate judge may be assigned such additional duties as are not inconsistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States.”
Also see: http://tinyurl.com/c3wlfbg
**
30,000 secret surveillance orders approved each year, judge estimates
SNIP
(Magistrate judges are important members of the federal judiciary; they handle many of the more routine judicial matters, such as warrant applications and initial case management.) In his work as a judge, Smith has become dismayed by the huge number of electronic surveillance orders he sees and by the secrecy that accompanies them.
When police execute a traditional search warrant, they generally bring with them a copy of that warrant and show it to the homeowner or target of the search. That’s not always the case, of course; sometimes warrants remain sealed while a case is in progress so as not to tip off a suspect.
But when surveillance enters the digital realm, secrecy becomes the norm. Digital “warrant-like” requests to access stored e-mail in an online account, or to wiretap an Internet connection, or to obtain “pen register” information, or to track a cell phone, are obtained from magistrate judges, many times in secret dockets that don’t even appear in the federal government’s official PACER document system. They come after one-sided (“ex parte”) proceedings in which only the government is heard. And they are generally sealed, only to be unsealed once a criminal case is filed. If no such charges are ever brought, the search warrants and the affidavits defending them can remain buried in the murkiest bits of the federal court system; even knowing that they exist can be a challenge. ISPs, which are often targets of such orders, may also be forbidden from disclosing them.
SNIP
**
“liberals are going to bring up Bush.”
You don’t know that Bush did cocaine. But Obama admitted to it. You are using ignorance as evidence. Not that we expected differently.
90. Read George’s book, he tells all.
The link below outlines the Republican plan for victory this fall.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/ari-berman-exposes-the-gop-war-on-voting/
Speaking of using ignorance as evidence:
This from the Newt:
[Obama] “really is like the substitute [National Football League] referees in the sense that he’s not a real president,” Gingrich told Greta Van Susteren on Fox News Tuesday night. “He doesn’t do anything that presidents do, he doesn’t worry about any of the things the presidents do, but he has the White House, he has enormous power, and he’ll go down in history as the president, and I suspect that he’s pretty contemptuous of the rest of us.”
http://thegrio.com/2012/09/27/newt-gingrich-obama-is-not-a-real-president/
Dear Lord, Help the people on this blog.
Hitler.
Oh no, I just broke two rules on this blog.
So that we in the “West” doesn’t get too pumped-up about our tolerance:
http://tinyurl.com/d7prpzz
**
French court bans Christ advert
[Pic of ad]
France’s Catholic Church has won a court injunction to ban a clothing advertisement based on Leonardo da Vinci’s Christ’s Last Supper.
The display was ruled “a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people’s innermost beliefs”, by a judge.
The church objected to the female version of the fresco, which includes a female Christ, used by clothing designers Marithe et Francois Girbaud.
The authorities in the Italian city of Milan banned the poster last month.
SNIP
**
Oh my stars, Henry has the temerity to accuse: “You are using ignorance as evidence” of someone else; oh the comic irony!
Pistol Pete, keep playing stooge, you know you have nothing and it shows. How about you guys…just don’t.
Praying for Hitler probably does break some rules.
Dan,
Serious question.
Who do I contact at the Roanoke Times to avoid having trash dumped on my yard every Friday morning? You know, the plastic bag full of junk mail advertising that the RT delivers to everyone without being asked to do so.
I thought the RT was supposed to be environmentally conscious.
Money trumps morality at the RT? Shocking. Times are hard, I get it.
But, seriously, who do I contact?
Dear Lord. Please let The Roanoke Times make enough money so they can take their unsold rags to the landfill. That would keep unrequested, leftover garbage out of peoples yards and mail boxes.
And Lord. Will you stop The Roanoke Times from printing “Letters to the Editor” from 6th graders. The letter to; Obama-Claus, did make my eyes offend me. I did not pluck them out this time, but I will owe you a couple of favors later. Thanks.
#18 I listened to a little bit of them, scott, and was impressed.
#20 Given his replies in the past, it’s pretty obvious, Henry. Not that it matters to me. Neither man is a drug addict.
#22 That pretty well sums up what Repubs are doing to restrict voting, Ron. One would think that honest right wingers would be appalled and embarrassed.
Re: my last and other comments I that have made on other threads:
http://tinyurl.com/9cc7sxy
**
A war is raging against free speech
By Frida Ghitis, Special to CNN
updated 9:46 AM EDT, Fri September 28, 2012
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
o Frida Ghitis: A recent anti-Islam video became an inescapable topic at the United Nations
o Ghitis: Some leaders say we should limit free speech to prevent insults to religions
o She says calls for anti-blasphemy laws should alarm democracy advocates
o Ghitis: President Barack Obama is right to defend free speech and U.S. should push for it
[To the actual text]
SNIP
During a time such as this — when new democracies are taking shape in the Middle East, and people everywhere are giving serious thought to what kind of system, what kind of laws and what kind of societies they want to live in — the debate could hardly matter more. That’s why it was heartening to hear President Barack Obama mount a spirited defense of free expression.
Obama staked out a position that is generally accepted in Western democracies, and enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. “I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day,” he said, “and I will always defend their right to do so.” He added, “Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views — even views that we profoundly disagree with.” And he made the fundamental argument that “the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech.”
The U.S. president’s professorial defense of the admittedly complex case for allowing people to say offensive things came as a refreshing change from America’s international campaign of contrition for the offending video, which seems less than consistent with its belief in free speech.
SNIP
**
Way to go President Obama!!!!
http://tinyurl.com/8npghcw
**
New Mexico: Could Third-Party Candidate Play Senate Spoiler?
By David M. Drucker Posted at 3:54 p.m. today
A new poll conducted for former Rep. Heather Wilson (R) shows the New Mexico Senate race could be more competitive than currently believed — if a third-party candidate does well on the November ballot.
In the survey, Wilson was in a virtual tie with Rep. Martin Heinrich (D), who took 43 percent to Wilson’s 42 percent. But Independent American Party candidate Jon Barrie took 9 percent, and 6 percent of respondents were undecided. The poll, conducted by GOP pollster Glen Bolger, was in the field Tuesday through Thursday and sampled 500 likely voters. The margin of error was 4.38 points.
SNIP
**
Wonder why this has not received more press?
http://tinyurl.com/brbyxf4
**
Child-migrant problem on rise
By DAVID ROGERS | 9/28/12 10:55 AM EDT
Apart from keeping the lights on, the stopgap spending bill signed by President Barack Obama Friday is its own “to-do” list for Washington: spending add-ons for cybersecurity, forest fires, nuclear weapons modernization, veterans’ benefits.
But amid all the numbers in the six month, $1.047 trillion measure, none stands out more than a little-noticed $132 million increase to address the flood of unaccompanied child migrants crossing the Southwest Border from Central America.
These are teenagers and younger, often riding alone atop freight trains to cross Mexico from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. And the new spending for these children is a wake-up call of sorts for Washington to a genuine humanitarian crisis, the government’s own struggles to cope, real costs for American taxpayers, with no one fully understanding the dynamics of what is happening.
SNIP
**
Note: Not North America as in Mexico but across “Mexico from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.”
Heds up, everybody: Make sure you tune in Monday morning for the next chapter of Mark Around the World.
Here’s the headline:
Hilarity ensues at the absinthe bar in Bohemia
Dave Hicks, I saw a report on that on Current TV, they start out as a family hopping onto the train and often only one (if any) can survive to get here. Some are killed, starve or get maimed along the treacherous way trying to hold onto a freaking moving train- rain, cold, night, day. It is a scary and yes humanitarian emergency. So sad.
Oh johnny, go on and pluck them out, you obviously do not use them. That has to offend God. Go on, we’ll all feel better.
Those commie lib-tards over at Rasmussen, Fox, and Gallop all have President Obama polling ahead.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html
# 38- Sandi. Was that your 6th grade letter? If so, you forgot to add the last sentence: I love you, do you love me? Put yes_ or no_
As for plucking out my eyes, God understands that I need those to ogle the fine, foxy women on Fox News.
May the fleas of your Pakistani camel infest your burqa.
I think we might finally get some cars to stop at our stop sign…
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/383489_10152180624555235_266665784_n.jpg
I’ve been calling the county for years about people running the stop sign. They didn’t care. Well, not until three days ago when I filed a complaint about a police officer running the stop sign.
Then they promised to come and watch it, which they did for about 20 minutes yesterday.
SWAT team was staging at my corner on Tuesday morning for a raid and one of their officers drove through the sign. I yelled at him, then filed a report.
At least they came by.
Damn Jack, life has been roughly lately, huh?
Not only have you been besieged by terrorists trespassing on your property with newspapers, but now people in the neighborhood aren’t coming to a full stop at the stop sign?
Just a thought but … maybe you should move?
Oh I think we all know who will be watching and whom they will be watching too. I assume the police did not allow you to make that complaint anonymously…
johnny, are you 10? The “fleas” of my “Pakistani camel” are still way ahead of you. Grow up or go away. Even the right wing does not deserve some of you twits.
Not planning to move. But not interested in these people running over my children or the autistic kid next door, either.
Moving would mean that I surrender.
Dan:
‘Just a thought but … maybe you should move?”
And they think we’re the anarchists?
Thoughts on this tax expenditure?
http://tinyurl.com/9n65keo
**
For aging Guantánamo captives, a cardiac care lab
The U.S. military is making a multimillion-dollar investment in healthcare that captives may need but can’t travel to get.
By CAROL ROSENBERG
crosenberg@MiamiHerald.com
The Pentagon is buying a mobile cardiac care unit and separate MRI trailer for the 167 detainees at Guantánamo, a $2.6 million investment for an aging population of captives who can’t be treated on U.S. soil.
The Army put the project out to bid this summer, seeking state-of-the-art equipment to be shipped by barge to the base and set up. A military surgical team would be brought to the base to use the cardiac care unit, as needed.
The investment is part of a Pentagon program offering the detainees healthcare that’s comparable to what U.S. troops receive. The Bush administration made the commitment to comparable care before Congress banned detainees from U.S. soil for any reason — trials or even critical medical care.
SNIP
**
I watched several news networks today, and FOX, as usual, seems to be the only one talking in detail about the story that should be front and center on EVERY publication or broadcast — the 0bama administration’s cover-up of the intel surrounding the Libyan amabassador’s murder.
It’s unconscionable most of the MSM won’t cover the story in order to protect the Idiot at election time.
Cinncinnatti Reds Pitcher throws a no-hitter tonight, and his name is Homer Bailey…maybe the first pitcher named Homer to ever throw a no hitter? DOH!
“I yelled at him, then filed a report.’
Yelling at people with M-16s is never a good idea.
I think Jack needs a hobby.
And no, complaining is not a hobby.
Dan
Or maybe he should just get a life. If all i had to occupy my time was bitching about getting a free paper Or somebody running a stop sign at the end of my tweet life would.be pretty damn dull. Sounds like jack needs to read a book, volunteer, Or get a hobby
#22 & #32:
Sadly, today I saw what appears to be another, more pernicious form of GOP vote suppression in the form of a “vote by mail application” sent to a 93 yr. old from the Republican Party of Va. This is the most abusive trick I’ve seen in quite awhile.
It’s an 8″ x 11″ tri-fold mailer, with a “Virginia Absentee Ballot Application” on the middle two pages, and partisan messages on the rest.
The “application” includes requests for name, SSN, address, birthdate, phone numbers, and more, with all those categories highlighted as “required”. It also has boxes to check for party affiliation. One of the boxes, designating which election the applicant wishes to vote in, is already pre-checked! When folded to return, the unaddressed half that’s left showing is another partisan ad. What official absentee registration application includes partisan advertising on them?
I’m sure all that information might be required when an application is done for one’s local registrar, but this “application” is PREADDRESSED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF VA.! So they’ll harvest all that sensitive personal information, and nowhere does the mailing guarantee that the GOP will forward the application to one’s registrar, although it says in several places “Apply To Vote By Mail Today”.
Supposing, though, that the application is a legally valid one and the GOP does plan to submit the application to one’s local registrar, can someone receiving it on Friday, Sept. 28, expect to mail it back to the GOP, then have them submit it to the correct local registrar, and then be notified of their registration, receive a ballot in the mail, fill it out and return it in time for the absentee voting deadline? The mailing makes no mention at all of what process occurs after the form is returned to the GOP, much less any promise of timeliness.
And of course, although preaddressed to the Republican Party of Va., it does not have bulk mail postage included. No, the vulnerable seniors who are tricked by this deceptive mailer must pay the 44 cents postage themselves.
Dan, would you like to see this outrageous POS, that likely combines an attempt to leave seniors and the homebound unregistered to vote (while leading them to think they are), with a blatant personal data grab? I’ll let you see it if you’re interested…
Wow, GOP senator holds up COLA payments for our VETS. Some unnamed Senator sinks to a new low:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/patty-murray-says-gop-senator-blocking-vets-cola-increase/2012/09/27/da47ac88-08cb-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html
This Senator needs to be unmasked and if he/she is on the ballot in November, face the wrath of their constituents. How cowardly.
So let’s see, Romney held up people trying to get to work in Philly today (my cousin for one). I seem to remember right wingers on this blog criticizing Obama for doing the same thing in Roanoke.
Interesting read for all you “it’s Bush’s fault” types.
http://news.yahoo.com/where-did-mammoth-us-budget-deficits-come-211927495.html
heyo, steve c, what do the facts on the ground tell you about Wisconsin, eh? Not polls, steve c, cause they certainly weren’t accurate for you and your ilk earlier in the elections in 2012, and in the elections in 2010 now, were they? how much money did you libs spend on “polling” during those elections, eh?
heyo steve c, do ya know what the definition of insanity is? yeah boy, it’s “doin the same ol’ thing over and over again…, and expecting a different result”. HaHa! heyo, steve c, you just stay seated on the side of the dry creek bed, waiting for the fish to bite… HaHa!
by the way, steve c, there was only one real poll in the rcp bunch of polls you linked to. HaHa!
dave,
Oh, Jack has a hobby. In the wrong hands, that tools of that hobby could put a half-dollar sized hold in you at 20 yards!
“The “application” includes requests for name, SSN, address, birthdate, phone numbers, and more, with all those categories highlighted as “required”. It also has boxes to check for party affiliation. One of the boxes, designating which election the applicant wishes to vote in, is already pre-checked! When folded to return, the unaddressed half that’s left showing is another partisan ad. What official absentee registration application includes partisan advertising on them?”
Warren, they mailed me one of these. I’m looking at it right now. I can’t find the part where they want you to check the box for party affiliation. Where is that?
I’m not surprised that the election box in pre-checked. It’s the general election they’re trying to drum up votes for.
“Wow, GOP senator holds up COLA payments for our VETS. Some unnamed Senator sinks to a new low:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/patty-murray-says-gop-senator-blocking-vets-cola-increase/2012/09/27/da47ac88-08cb-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html
This Senator needs to be unmasked and if he/she is on the ballot in November, face the wrath of their constituents. How cowardly.”
This is GOP political strategy.
Mitt Romney is going to blame this on Obama in Wednesday’s debate. You watch.
For some reason this thread’s title reminded me of the time when a friends’ mother asked him about the concert he was going to see, by, as she put it, “Sly and The Friendly Ghost”.
Actually, Dan, it’s “I am registered to vote in the____ primary” (two boxes offered.
So I suppose it’s a mass mailing to more folks than I realized, but do you really think they’re trying to “drum up votes” as you said, Dan? Is it really a valid application? My impression, as I said, was that it combined a data gathering scam with possibly misleading people into thinking their registration will be well served by the GOP, when there isn’t any mention or promise to do so. Note the “office use only” part includes a line for “reason not accepted”…
In any case, is there now sufficent time left for such a third party registration process (GOP middleman) to definitely be reliable?
@48
Yeah, Butch, you and Fox keep #*@%ing that chicken.
Warren @ 49:
I guess that makes him No Homer Homer!
Contra,
OMG, Pflugrad’s toast!
I’m glad law enforcement is treating Jacks paper problem with the gravity it merits
#48 I though the MSM was supposed to be covering the economy, suzie. Or onservative Catholic coaches.
#57 Frank,
I guess you’re not a numbers guy; President Obama is up by almost 8 points over team chedderbomb in Wisconsin, and Tammy Baldwin is up over Thompson by 5. There’s 38 days left. WTH are you holding out for, divine intervention? Hope is not a strategy, Frank.
Besides, if you abandon this charade sooner rather than later, there’s the off chance I’ll forget about all your dopey hopey changy thingies you’re clinging to and thus I might not be metaphorically beating you like a rented government mule come Election Day.
Just something for you to consider; all things being equal I’m more than happy to continue to use you as my personal piñata so rave on you silly little freak.
#28- Call the Roanoke Times circulation department and ask them to stop the delivery. I get that piece of crap “burgs” in my mail box. I called and the person who works at the Times, got away from the Amazon site long enough to tell me, it would stop in 2 weeks. I hope.
You could collect them and drop them along the green way. Maybe a certain bicycle rider will hit them and break her tongue. That is a good place to empty your truck ashtray too, if you are a proud smoker like me.
Comment by Cold n P — September 28, 2012 @ 10:38 pm
And Suzie still insist that a small minority cannot be obstructionist in the legislative process.
hey little stevie c,
so, based on your incredibly bright insight, we might as well just go with the slanted polls as they appear 6 weeks before the election, and forgo the charade of the election day! HaHa!
wipe that slobber from yer face, little man.
Kristen,
What do the police have to do with the newspaper?
Re: Comment by Art Hill — September 29, 2012 @ 1:35 am
Pflugrad’s toast!
————–
That’s a keeper.
#70: “the green way…is a good place to empty your truck ashtray too”
“johnny” is a selfish slob. His truck bed is a good place to let your dog defecate.
Jack, Johnny seems like a great guy. Talk
to him about it., you can bond over the trauma of getting a free paper.
Probably wasted on you anyway,Johnny. You don’t appear to be much of a reader.
Jack of course I figured the SWAT team was there to address the travesty of a paper in your yard.
Johnny,
I like you idea, but it is too close to my idea that my wife already told me I can’t do.
The neanderthals bonding is so cute. How about you freaks abandon the Roanoke Times website too? Sounds fair to me.
Not for nothing, but I assume that the Roanoke Times delivers free papers with sale or community info in them at the request of advertisers who want to reach more customers, as well as trying to gain more subscribers. The obvious hostility of the “immature” in the community speaks to the futility of pleasing some people.
I think the only real question here is why civilized people do not have a paper box and why a modern business needs to have their carriers throw papers onto property instead of only in the proper delivery box for them. Those are legitimate and helpful questions.
#75 #76 Me, “A selfish slob”? I was only giving something back to society, free. Oh, I get it. Its okay for the Times to give me free unwanted garbage, but not okay for me to give Roanoke my unwanted garbage. I would even look Smug, like the people on the green way and on bicycles. Hell I might go over to the hip restaurant of the day and pay 8 bucks for a dollar cup of coffee. Looking smug the whole time , of course.
And by the way, I can read well enough to fill out an application for free Food Stamps. Its not that difficult, is it Kristen? And i can read well enough to know; not to buy a liberal biased rag, like the Roanoke Times.
Johnny, I’m sure your literary needs are adequately filled by the kapn krunch box.
@Sandi Saunders: “I think the only real question here is why civilized people do not have a paper box and why a modern business needs to have their carriers throw papers onto property instead of only in the proper delivery box for them. Those are legitimate and helpful questions.”
For what it’s worth, I do have a paper box, and I would have no problem whatsoever if the fliers were delivered to it instead of the yard.
@Johnny:
I totally get how you feel. I have chickens, chickens produce great fertilizer. I contemplated delivering some free fertilizer to the Roanoke Times’ office while returning the unwanted papers. Why on earth would anyone get upset about some free fertilizer? There is nothing wrong with delivering it to their lobby because some people do like free fertilizer. Well, at least that is the logic here that applies to the papers. Somehow, the same logic doesn’t apply to other things that many people find valuable, though, like fertilizer.
I’ve decided against delivering the free bag of fertilizer, though.
johnny, On what planet does it make sense to litter all over Roanoke just because the The Roanoke Times gave you “free unwanted garbage”? You do realize that just because they have Roanoke in their name doesn’t mean that Roanoke proper is responsible for the company’s actions, right? Nevermind. Obviously, you don’t. Since you openly admit that you’re a criminal, I guess it should really come as no surprise to us. Do you also go around trashing random peoples’ cars when someone dents your door at the supermarket?
If you want to trash up the planet, do it on your own property. Get up off of your lazy rear and go through the proper, mature channels to get the RT to cease all deliveries to you. Stop making people who had NOTHING to do with your vendetta against the RT pay for it.
We’re not your mommy, you self-centered jackass. We don’t want to clean up after you and we didn’t make the mess. Do you have any children? Go throw a bag of trash and cigarette butts in their room. That’s the planet you’re leaving for them; they might as well get accustomed to it now.
It’s people like you that make me think the littering laws in this state are woefully inadequate. Forget fines, anyone caught littering should be sentenced to community service cleaning trash from roadsides. Minimum sentence for first offense: 2 5-ton dump truck loads. Second offense: 15-30 days in jail and 5 dump truck loads of trash picked up. Third offense: habitual offender, felony – 1 year in jail + probation, and one dump truck load per month for every year of your probation.
Some days, I wish I was a judge. I’d make Roy L. Bean proud.
Clarification: johnny didn’t technically admit to any crimes. I was mistaken and I apologize.
#83- So young, yet so cynical.
Wow. Just Wow.
I didn’t read the blog for a few days, until yesterday when I only read the New Yorker thread. After glancing at some of the posts on here, I can see I didn’t miss a thing.
I think this blog needs to be renamed. Under Dan Casey’s Blog you should add, Where The Rational and Irrational Come To Meet.
hey Roy, er, J.M., that was very well ranted. I have a different take, however. I think folks who insert their flyer-inserts under car windshields to be among the lowest of advertising mediums, followed by those behind those scandalous loose inserts in newspapers, and then of course, followed by those newspapers themselves.
Now, I realize that some would say that cars actually parked on parking lots (hey, now that’s one to think about…) are fair game for wind shield insert-inserters, and I’m with them that think that way…I think.
I personally think it’s a leap to say that cars parked on driveways (that’s better…) located on private property are also fair game to be victimized by insert-inserters. I don’t think insert-inserters should indiscriminately ply their trade on private property….and, quite frankly, I’ve never found a windshield insert on my car while it was “parked” on my private property “driveway”. stay with me…
If we accept the premis that insert-inserters should not ply their trade on privately owned cars while parked on privately owned driveways…., then why should newspapers be given carte blanche to place their advertising mediums indescriminately on the same privately owned driveways, porch stoops, etc. which we might agree should be off-limits to insert-inserters?
Now, we all know the reason that the RTs is underwriting this act of desperation, and I certainly hate to see any struggling business, well, struggle, as the RTs is. Sad, I know.
Regarding the RTs’ stuggles, and their resulting use of all sorts of new advertising mediums (well, new perhaps for the RTs…), such as those kind order-taker folks at Kroger, the trash-throwers of “free” papers on our private property, and do ya remember seeing the RAFFLE advertised not too long ago in the RTs? …the RTs and Stop In (I think it was) partnered up to entice people to shop at Stop-in Stores and register for a raffle to win some $$$? I’m not sure what else was required, but all I do remember is that the winner apparently would win some cash, and maybe be given a “free” newspaper…? I wonder what the 2nd prize winner got…maybe 1 week in Philly?
Whew, the RTs is pulling out all stops! … even to the point of unfortunately and uncaringling trashing some of our private properties.
Now, back to the raffle… Isn’t that gambling…just like the Virginia Lottary? Can we say that the folks who participated in the RTs raffle were enticed by the RTs to gamble?
Frankly, I think the Roanoke Times should raise their subscription rates so that people who can’t afford the regular rates can get their “subscriptions” for “free”. Then, the readership of the RTs will finally increase, enabling the RT to sell more advertising, and the RTs then won’t be forced to employ desparate measures such as trashing private property, and enciting people to gamble, in order to save their newspaper.
For goodness sakes, you smart people running the RTs, just raise the subscription rates on the rich, and johnny’s problem goes away! Sheesh!
“Regarding the RTs’ stuggles, and their resulting use of all sorts of new advertising mediums (well, new perhaps for the RTs…), such as those kind order-taker folks at Kroger, the trash-throwers of “free” papers on our private property, and do ya remember seeing the RAFFLE advertised not too long ago in the RTs? …the RTs and Stop In (I think it was) partnered up to entice people to shop at Stop-in Stores and register for a raffle to win some $$$?”
Frank, you’re gonna hate to hear this. Be careful, because it has a lot of facts, which you might not want to read at all, lest they pollute your mind:
1. The RT has had challenges — and it’s dealing with those, and the newspaper is still quite profitable. But those challenges have little to do with the RT specifically — the entire daily newspaper industry is experiencing many similar struggles. The RT is doing much better than most. You can claim all you want a farrier’s reduced business was because he was rotten at shoeing horses. But if you ignore the fact that coincided with the advent of the automobile, and that all farriers suffered because of that, you simply look stupid.
2. I worked in the circulation department from 2003-2006. They were selling subscriptions in Kroger way back then, 9 years ago (rotating among stores). Is that what you call “new?” In that case, I have a 9-year-old car that I’d be glad to sell you for the 2003 sticker price. Come on, Frank. That’s “new” by your own definition. The sticker is a fair price.
3. Same with the promotion with Stop In. It is not remotely new. We BEGAN the “spend $4 and get a free paper” promotion in 2005 or 2006. It was new back then, bub. I reckon you simply haven’t been paying attention. If there’s some sort of lottery connected to it now, that MAY be new. Big deal.
You know, just about everything you post on this blog is so warped and wrong it comes across as the result of a pickled brain. You might want to consider unpickling that, if it’s not too late.
hey ol’ dano, boy did my pickled brain hit one of your overly sensitive nerves? ok, promotional practises begun by the RTs in 2004, 2005, and 2006 are’t so new. ok. i stand corrected.
so, i guess the part that ol’ johnny’s brought up IS new, eh? …that’s the one about trashing private property…, you have anything to say about that, eh?
how are the promotions working, ol’ dano?
are the new subscriptions coming from those promotions even covering the capital cost of the new, oops, well, maybe semi-new, heidleberg press…yet?
i think your business folks ought to seriously consider raising the subscription rates on it’s subscribers, so as to enable your paper to give away “free” subscriptions to potential readers who can’t afford the regular rates… which will increase the eyeballs purportedly reading your rag, which will supposedly increase your advertising rates, which will enable your business folks to reduce their gambling-based dependency…, and their trashing private property gone-haywire based… promotional practices.
How’s that for unpickling my brain, eh, ol’ dano? Thank you very much.
by the way, are ya looking forward to how the cooks’ at the NYer will prepare your next meal?
Yeah, but I did like is plan to raise subscription rates on the rich so the poor could get the paper for free. Given the paper’s liberal stance on most issues, I would think you’d be in favor of that.
#83- So young, yet so cynical.
Wow. Just Wow.
Comment by johnny — September 30, 2012 @ 12:20 pm
Hello. Is this Pot? You have a collect call from Kettle. Will you accept the charges?
#92- Hello, Pot here. No I will not accept a collect call from Kettle. Tell him; go get your free obama phone. Free minutes and texting, from what I understand. And anything free is good, right? Just ask some of these Libs, they will tell you.
Shouldn’t you be out riding a bicycle and polluting Neo’Noke with Smug? Or go chase down a glass full of that, man made global warming and destroy it. Just what is your spiel?
In reality, go back and read all of my posts; might put things in perspective for you. Your reasoning is sound, your “reasons” are wrong. Good luck. Pot out.
Way to point out my cynicism with… cynicism.
I’m sorry. We seemed to have had a bad connection. The was a bunch of kooky political garbage bleeding all over your message. There’s probably something wrong with this free phone that someone gave me.
As for riding a bike, I’m usually too busy swinging a hammer or turning a wrench to ride bikes. It’s surprisingly hard to haul materials with those.
However, I’m still doing as much as I can to reduce the pollution I contribute to this planet, because I look beyond my puny, insignificant life to what will be left for future generations. I also spend a lot of time outdoors, often picking up trash dumped by people who can’t be bothered with things like finding a trashcan. It tends to make me a little irritated when someone endorses littering, in jest or not.
All I ask is that you encourage people to clean their room instead of trash it. It’s a big room and it gets a lot of traffic.
@Frank,
The argument you’ll get here is that the person delivering the “free ad flier” from the RT doesn’t step on your property, and therefore isn’t doing anything wrong. That would be different than the person who has to step onto your property to put the flier under the windshield wiper.
By the logic presented by the majority here, the best way for the insert-inserter to deliver the insert to your car, without doing anything wrong, would be to tie it to a rock and throw it from a public street through your car window.
He hasn’t done anything wrong since he didn’t actually enter your private property with his person.
Both Keith Lyles (from the RT circulation department) and some here have claimed that because the RT is doing what it does from a public road that there is nothing you can do about it. I assume they don’t have law degrees, though, as a couple of people I have spoken with that do, in fact, have law degrees indicates that I have a valid tort claim against the RT, the company contracted to deliver the free fliers and the person(s) actually delivering it.
You do not actually have to enter someone’s private property to trespass upon it.
They will then try to say that you can’t compare a broken windshield to a half of a square foot of dead grass where the paper sat all week, but the courts disagree and say that the amount of damage is irrelevant.
@Chuck: “Yeah, but I did like is plan to raise subscription rates on the rich so the poor could get the paper for free. Given the paper’s liberal stance on most issues, I would think you’d be in favor of that.”
Honestly, I’m surprised they haven’t already gone that route.
“They will then try to say that you can’t compare a broken windshield to a half of a square foot of dead grass where the paper sat all week, but the courts disagree and say that the amount of damage is irrelevant.”
Jack,
Wrong. The amount of damages always is relevant in a tort claim. (and it’s Liles, not Lyles). Send that letter yet?
Jack, if you have a paper box and the carrier is throwing the stuff in your driveway or yard, your problem is the carrier and not the Roanoke Times IMO. They should be able to put you in contact with your carrier to stop the delivery or to have them go into the box. That is a very legitimate and understandable complaint and they need to cooperate with it IMO.
Johnny, I fail to see how Suzie breaking her tongue would help anyone, but advising people to litter is real classy of you.
Re: Comment by Dan Casey — September 30, 2012 @ 8:21 pm
Wrong. The amount of damages always is relevant in a tort claim.
———-
Only if what your are after is $.
OTOH, if you are after an injunction, which if not followed, can lead to criminal contempt, well that is a different matter.
Comment from Jack:
@Johnny:
I totally get how you feel. I have chickens, chickens produce great fertilizer. I contemplated delivering some free fertilizer to the Roanoke Times’ office while returning the unwanted papers. Why on earth would anyone get upset about some free fertilizer? There is nothing wrong with delivering it to their lobby because some people do like free fertilizer. Well, at least that is the logic here that applies to the papers. Somehow, the same logic doesn’t apply to other things that many people find valuable, though, like fertilizer.
I’ve decided against delivering the free bag of fertilizer, though.
Comment by Jack — September 30, 2012 @ 9:42 am Gosh Jack. I doubt if we could take a whole lot more of your “fertilizer”. That’s what yo seem to have delivered to the blog from your first post on the subject some time ago.
“They will then try to say that you can’t compare a broken windshield to a half of a square foot of dead grass where the paper sat all week, but the courts disagree and say that the amount of damage is irrelevant.”
This would be great to debate in court, your lack of comprehension of the courts position on the matter notwithstanding. If you were aware that the paper would kill your grass and left it there precisely to achieve that end, you would admit some measure of responsibility by doing so. After all, what stopped you from picking it up and minimizing the damage? It could be argued that if your yard was properly maintained, such as if you were picking up unwanted items in it, the damage would not have occurred.
Using your broken windshield [bad] analogy: If you knew who broke it, refused to fix/cover it and didn’t pursue legal options until six months later, you’d have little chance of convincing a judge to make the perpetrator pay for the additional damage caused by exposure to the weather. Making you whole for the original damage is a reasonable expectation within the law; compensating you for damage you willfully failed to prevent is not.
If you actually pursue this lawsuit, please keep us posted. I’d love to sit in the gallery on this case – it’s fascinating. Personally, I think you’re all wind and no sail. If you truly had a case, you’d have moved forward with it by now. At the very least, your alleged legal counsel would’ve drafted you a cease and desist letter. That would be the first logical and legal step in the mediation of this matter… or did they not mention that? You go before a judge without it at your own peril, sir.
Here’s how it would go down:
“Mr. Jack, did you notify the Roanoke Times in writing to cease leaving papers in your yard?”
“No, Your Honor.”
“Case dismissed. Have a good day.”
…followed shortly thereafter by the bill from your stellar team of lawyers.
OTOH, if you are after an injunction, which if not followed, can lead to criminal contempt, well that is a different matter.
Comment by Dave Hicks — September 30, 2012 @ 8:43 pm
Absolutely right. It still must be preceded by a C&D letter in almost all cases, though.
Dan,
The letter is going out tomorrow, and it is going to a Norfolk address.
@Dave Hicks,
Right. Not looking for a dime. Damages are irrelevant.
hey Jack, you know…, as soon as I hit the send butten, I had the same thought you had…., I wonder why they havn’t already done that. Then I imagined getting a cheap promo “card”, with a picture of some people in Africa looking like they could really use a newspaper… who implore me to send donations to the Roanoke Times so they could get free subscriptions so they could better keep up with what ol’ dano has to say about Dear One…
btw, the libs couln’t care less about littering. I think they make that ABUNDANTLY clear on this thread. Hypocrites…, and they know who they are.
Jack, why Norfolk?
You’d have a point if preventing litter was Jack’s motivation, Frank.
However, he doesn’t like the Roanoke Times, for numerous reasons and no longer wishes to receive any of their publications. Instead of doing the rational thing and sending a cease and desist letter and letting it go, he’s spouted off on numerous threads about a tort action against the paper. For some odd reason, he’s threatening to take up a crusade against the tyranny of the RT and their free stuff.
That said, It’s fun to vent some frustrations on this blog, and I’m sure Jack is doing a little bit of that, too. There’s no problem with that at all, of course. On a relatively open forum, however, you’re also subject to criticism of your frustrations.
Remember, kids: Give a hoot, don’t pollute.
…and that includes that filthy, fascist, two-bit, communist-supporting, low-down, socialist-preaching, liberal, hyphenated-word-using rag posing as a newspaper. Stop giving away free crap, you stinkin’ hippies! {shakes fist}
Okay. Obviously I should have been in bed hours ago, because even I’m wondering what I just said [typed]. I’m going to bed.
G’night, kids. It’s been a fine fun Sunday.
And stop trolling me, Frank.
@Dan,
It is going to the agent registered with the State Corporation Commission. Letter is below.
—–
Guy R Friddell III ℅ Times-World, LLC
150 Granby Street, 19th Floor
Norfolk, VA 23510
Mr. Friddell,
My name is [redacted]. I am writing this letter, which serves as an official written request, pursuant to Virginia Code § 18.2-119, demanding that you and your company, its subsidiaries, subcontractors and employees, cease and desist unauthorized trespass activities, including, but not limited to, actual physical trespass and trespass by device, at the following addresses:
* [REDACTED]
* [REDACTED]
* [REDACTED]
* [REDACTED]
I am either the owner of the property, or an agent, authorized by the owner, to make such a request on their behalf.
Should you continue the activities after receipt of this notice, we will consider any additional remedies that may be available, including criminal and/or civil claims against your company, subsidiaries, subcontractors and any employees that may have trespassed on the aforementioned properties on your behalf.
@J.M. White: “This would be great to debate in court, your lack of comprehension of the courts position on the matter notwithstanding. If you were aware that the paper would kill your grass and left it there precisely to achieve that end, you would admit some measure of responsibility by doing so.”
—–
Every unauthorized entry upon the real property of another without legal authority resulting in some damage, however miniscule, constitutes a trespass under law of Virginia.
Nature Conservancy v. Machipongo Club, Inc., 419 F. Supp. 390 (E.D. Va. 1976) aff’d in part, rev’d in part, 571 F.2d 1294 (4th Cir. 1978) on reh’g, 579 F.2d 873 (4th Cir. 1978)
—–
Any physical entry upon the surface of the land constitutes such an invasion, whether the entry is “a walking upon it, flooding it with water, casting objects upon it, or otherwise.” W. Page Keeton et al., Prosser and Keeton on the Law of Torts § 13, at 70 (5th ed. 1984).
Cooper v. Horn, 248 Va. 417, 423, 448 S.E.2d 403, 406 (1994)
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We hold that the plaintiffs’ evidence was sufficient to entitle them to have the jury instructed on the trespass theory. The plaintiffs presented evidence showing that they were the owners of the land in question, and the Coopers did not dispute the plaintiffs’ right to exclusive possession of the land. The plaintiffs further proved an entry on their land from the discharge of a large volume of water from the dam constructed by Cooper, and that this entry was without right, authority, or invitation. Therefore, the trial court did not err in submitting the case to the jury on the alternative theory of trespass to land.
Cooper v. Horn, 248 Va. 417, 423, 448 S.E.2d 403, 407 (1994)
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Those being from Virginia, we now turn to a few persuasive references…
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There is, in our view, nothing in either the Federal or State Constitutions which requires a landowner to tolerate a trespass whenever the trespasser is a speaker, or the distributor of written speech, who is unsatisfied with the fora which may be available on public property, and who thus attempts to carry his message to private property against the will of the owner (see, Lloyd Corp. v. Tanner, 407 U.S. 551, 92 S.Ct. 2219, 33 L.Ed.2d 131).
Tillman v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., 224 A.D.2d 79, 87, 648 N.Y.S.2d 630, 635 (1996)
—–
The constitutional right of free speech does not correspond to the “right” to force others to listen to whatever one has to say. By the same token, the right to publish, distribute, and sell a newspaper does not correspond to the “right” to force others to buy or to read whatever one has written, or to spend their own time or money unwillingly participating in the distribution process by which a newspaper travels from the printing press to its ultimate destination, i.e., disposal.
Tillman v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., 224 A.D.2d 79, 88, 648 N.Y.S.2d 630, 636 (1996)
—–
The state does all that it needs to do in order to protect the constitutional rights of a newspaper publisher when it refrains from censorship, and when it allows the distribution of the newspaper into the hands of the ultimate reader to proceed in accordance with the natural economic laws of a free market. The state need not, and in our opinion, should not, compel anyone to read, to buy, or even to touch, pick up, or handle a newspaper of which the individual in question wants to have no part.
Tillman v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., 224 A.D.2d 79, 88, 648 N.Y.S.2d 630, 636 (1996)
As almost always, well said, J.M.
@J.M. White: “You’d have a point if preventing litter was Jack’s motivation, Frank.”
It’s definitely one of the motivations. As I said to Sandi, if it were placed in the flier box underneath my mailbox, I would have no problem with receiving it.
Jack: It may be one of your motivations, but it’s certainly not your primary one, though I do agree with your reasoning on that particular subject. So basically, instead of sending a letter to the RT requesting that your carrier either put all material in the box or cease all deliveries, you’ve started a crusade to end all ‘oppressive propaganda’ from them.
How can you say: “As I said to Sandi, if it were placed in the flier box underneath my mailbox, I would have no problem with receiving it,” and then (repeatedly) print the precedent of “The state need not, and in our opinion, should not, compel anyone to read, to buy, or even to touch, pick up, or handle a newspaper of which the individual in question wants to have no part.” as part of your position? It tends to make one think you’re being disingenuous, sir.
You seem to think that, along with your whopping four addresses, you will the be the catalyst for sweeping changes in the way that periodicals do business in this state. The problem is that there is no great cry from the masses for you to take up the mantle of hero. You’re pumping sunshine up your own fanny in a self-important crusade, and it’s glaringly transparent.
You’re part of what’s wrong with this country today. You and evidently three other residents want to change a way of business for the entire state. You don’t care who it puts out of work, don’t care how it impacts the local and state economy and you don’t care who suffers because of it. And for what? So you don’t have to pick up a newspaper off of your lawn? Wouldn’t the C&D letter have sufficed from the very beginning without all this fuss?
What you’re doing is analogous to this: You went to a concert with three of your friends. You didn’t enjoy the show at all and feel ripped off. Instead of asking the group/promoter to refund you and your friends’ money, you’re demanding that they refund everyone’s money. You don’t care if other people thought it was worth it and/or enjoyed it. You don’t care if it means the group will have to cancel a subsequent show because of a lack of operating capital. It’s all about you, and it shows.
That being said, I find your position interesting and am truly interested in how this plays out. You’ve got your ducks in a row as far as cited precedents, but your tying them together and presenting them as relevant to your case is more than a bit tenuous, IMO. Just establishing precedent to a judge is inadequate in a court of law; those are for establishing the relevance of your case and you still must present your arguments. Your arguments and motivations are what I find weak, not your precedents.
I do hope you get this issue resolved to your satisfaction and are able to do so without putting someone out of work or costing a Virginia business a lot of money. Good luck, sir.
Jack –
You understand that your actual damages is the total recovery you will be allowed right?
A $10 square of sod (providing your lawn has grass) and $1 for your time picking up the papers.
It is a trespass, but it won’t be a criminal trespass, it will be the weakest version your state has – (infraction in MO, I am not sure what VA calls it – but usually like a speeding ticket – no jail time, fine only, etc- less than a Misd.)
If you want to pursue this, try small claims court 6 months after your letter is received. Send your letter return receipt requested, get a signature and the name and date.
A lawyer to help you will be about $1000 (5 hours at $200), in advance. But sometimes making a point is worth it. Only you can decide if the $11 payout is worth it. Most states won’t award attorney’s fees, even if you win.
Keep us advised.
Disclaimer – the above is purely speculative opinion by a lay person, the author of this not makes no warranties about the viability or outcome of any case and is not a lawyer qualified to make any legal opinion.
“It is going to the agent registered with the State Corporation Commission.”
That was my guess.
“Yeah, but I did like is plan to raise subscription rates on the rich so the poor could get the paper for free. Given the paper’s liberal stance on most issues, I would think you’d be in favor of that.
Comment by Chuck — September 30, 2012 @ 3:00 pm”
hell Chuch, they cant even GIVE the rt away at kroger…lol
@J.M. White: “How can you say…”
Easily. If they stop delivery, great. If they continue to deliver, but place it in the flier box, great, too.
If they don’t stop, I will pursue an injunction. Hopefully, that will be unnecessary.
@J.M. White: “The problem is that there is no great cry from the masses for you to take up the mantle of hero.”
I don’t disagree. It’s just that if I cannot get them to stop, it would be less costly for me to pursue the issue on behalf of everyone than it would be to pursue it on behalf of myself only. I prefer the less costly route.
@J.M. White: “You and evidently three other residents want to change a way of business for the entire state.”
Not true. I want them to stop littering, sure. But I’d be satisfied if they would stop in my yard only. As I stated above, if I have to pursue it in court, it costs less to do it on behalf of everyone.
@J.M. White: “I do hope you get this issue resolved to your satisfaction and are able to do so without putting someone out of work or costing a Virginia business a lot of money. Good luck, sir.”
Thank you. That’s exactly how I hope to resolve the issue, too. The letter was not necessary to provide notification in accordance with Virginia law. However, I am hoping that the letter will do a better job than my verbal notification. If so, it is certainly worth the small amount of money that it costs to send it. If not, it makes my case that much stronger.
If the Roanoke Times would look for a flier (paper) box at each house they deliver to, and place the paper in that box if it exists, I think it would go a long way.
I cannot imagine why they would prefer to throw three of these things in my yard when there are three paper boxes right there not fifteen feet from where they throw them.
JM White@12:53
And then again he could be just another starved for attention jackass.
@VVArlock: “If you want to pursue this, try small claims court 6 months after your letter is received.”
Small claims court only works if you are seeking a monetary judgment. I thought of that, and checked on it, but confirmed that they cannot issue an injunction, which is all I would seek.
I’m not looking to make any money, just looking to get them to stop placing the fliers in my grass.
@VVArlock: “A lawyer to help you will be about $1000 (5 hours at $200), in advance. But sometimes making a point is worth it.”
Exactly, which is why I wouldn’t pursue it for myself. If I could form a class, it would not likely cost me a dime out of pocket. Both of my attorney friends said that there are plenty of young attorneys out there looking for work and would take the case on a contingency, seeing as how it is 100% winnable.
The cited case, Tillman v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., is in a different state, but the facts are almost identical. They were awarded a few dollars in damages, even though they didn’t seek any (literally, like $5 per incident), but they were awarded an injunction.
If the injunction were issued, and then the paper continued to be dropped on the grass, it would become a criminal issue.
@Dave Hicks,
Yes, the SCC registered agent was who I was suggested to send it to.
I’m not trying to do anything crazy here. I’m just trying to get the Roanoke Times to stop trespassing. I will do what it takes to get them to stop, and I will do it in the way that costs me the least amount of time and money. Of course, if that means solving the problem for others, in addition to myself, because that costs less, I will do it.
“I’m not looking to make any money, just looking to get them to stop placing the fliers in my grass. . . .Both of my attorney friends said that there are plenty of young attorneys out there looking for work and would take the case on a contingency, seeing as how it is 100% winnable.”
Jack, 1/3 of an injunction is $0.
Jack, it’s OCD man. Get help.
@Dan Casey,
You lost me. What do you mean by 1/3 of an injunction is $0? An injunction means that the fliers would no longer be on my grass.
Jack,
You’re seeking an injunction, not money. You’ve been advised that some hungry young attorneys would take the case on contingency. Contingency is typically 1/3 of a judgment won for a client. An injunction = $0. Therefore, the contingency (fee) for winning an injunction =$0.
For that reason I doubt someone would take it on contingency — that’s all.
I gotcha now… yes, there would be no money involved in that case. In the Tillman case, though, attorneys fees were awarded, including those incurred for the failed appeal by Distribution Systems of America.
Tillmans got no damages, though they sought them. They did get the injunction, though. However, I was mistaken, it was in Miller v same, where small damages were awarded.
Miller summary (from appeals court):
Homeowner filed trespass and breach of contract action against company that delivered unsolicited plastic-wrapped parcels containing various items including advertisements and fliers. The District Court, Nassau County, Falanga, J., awarded the homeowner nominal damages. Company appealed. The Supreme Court, Appellate Term, held that the homeowner had a right to be free of unwanted and unsolicited deliveries of advertising materials, which persisted despite the homeowner’s repeated notices to discontinue the dumping of parcels on his property and, thus, an award of nominal damages was appropriate to protect the homeowner against trespass, even without proof of actual damages.
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The limited right to recover nominal damages in an action for trespass to real property is appropriate where needed to protect an important right, even in the absence of any substantial loss or injury (see, 17 Carmody–Wait 2d, N.Y.Prac. § 107:89; Kronos v. AVX Corp. 81 N.Y.2d 90, 95, 595 N.Y.S.2d 931, 612 N.E.2d 289).
Miller v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., 175 Misc. 2d 513, 514, 670 N.Y.S.2d 668, 669 (App. Term 1997)
More recently, in Tillman v. Distribution Systems of America, 224 A.D.2d 79, 648 N.Y.S.2d 630, involving essentially the same fact pattern as that presented herein, the Second Department affirmed an order of the Supreme Court which permanently enjoined defendant from making deliveries of unsolicited newspapers and/or advertisements upon plaintiff’s property. In rejecting defendant’s First Amendment argument that the injunction infringed on their constitutional right of free speech, the court stated in pertinent part: “There is, in our view, nothing in either the Federal or State Constitutions which requires a landowner to tolerate a trespass whenever the trespasser is a speaker, or the distributor of written speech, who is unsatisfied with the fora which may be available on public property, and who thus attempts to carry his message to private property against the will of the owner” (Tillman v. Distribution Systems of America, Inc., supra, at 87, 648 N.Y.S.2d 630). Plaintiff had a right to be free of the unwanted and unsolicited deliveries of defendant’s advertising materials, which persisted despite plaintiff’s repeated notices to defendant to discontinue the dumping of the parcels on his property. Under these circumstances, the award of nominal damages was appropriate to protect plaintiff against this particular form of trespass, even in the absence of sufficient proof of actual damages.
Miller v. Distribution Sys. of Am., Inc., 175 Misc. 2d 513, 515, 670 N.Y.S.2d 668, 669-70 (App. Term 1997)
hey J.M., I think Jack appears to have a genuine concern. Good luck, Jack.
Even if you got a small damages per incident award to recoup $5000 the attorney would have to win $15,000 or 3000 incidents at $5 per.
At a paper a week 3000 instances / 50 weeks = 60 people. Sounds like a lot of hassle.
I would decline such an opportunity and I am not in this for the money and would love an opportunity to kick a deserving corporation in the teeth…
Best of luck.
Disclaimer: The opinions stated in this comment are not the opinions of an attorney and are not intended to form any sort of privileged relationship. No legal advice may be given by the author of this post until he passes the friggin bar.
How many times is this same discussion going to be held?
Jack..
I would suggest you do one of two things..
Take the paper to a local school..
I remember when I was small one of the local papers
gave us a subscription for free.
It made a lasting impression on me.
It made me believe someone cared enough to want me to
read and keep learning.
The other..if you cant be that bothered is to put them in a sack
and deliver them to The Roanoke times.
Im sure if you leave your name on them theyll likerly see fit
to stay out of your holler.
Good luck with the friggin’ bar, VVarlock. Of course, if Obama is re-elected, he will immediately impose an Islamic dictatorship, just as soon as he’s finished rounding up about 150 million guns.
Joe,
That would be a splendid idea if it were a newspaper. It is just an advertisement flier.
If it were a paper, I’d do exactly what you suggest. I hadn’t thought of that. I would put it in my son’s book bag and let him take it with him to school.
I don’t think a school would see any more value in the advertisements than I do, though.
Yeah sure, “Jack appears to have a genuine concern”. He should take this passion to the Supreme Court, and he should also allow that people who hate the death and destruction of mass shootings have a “genuine concern” for stopping that senseless activity too.