Harry Reid targets Mitt on taxes, again
Is GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney one of the 47 percent who pays no federal income taxes?
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wants to know.
Doubling down on his earlier criticism of Romney for refusing to release more than 2 years of tax returns, this is what Reid said on the Senate floor this morning:
“Thousands of families making more than $1 million pay nothing in federal income taxes each year.
Is Mitt Romney among them?
We’ll never know, since he refuses to release tax returns from the years before he was running for president.
But from the one return we have seen, we know Mitt Romney pays a lower tax rate than middle class families thanks to Swiss bank accounts and Cayman Island tax shelters.
And we can only imagine what new secrets would be revealed if he showed the American people a dozen years of tax returns, like his father did.”
Ouch. This has got to hurt. I wonder what Reid knows, that we don’t?
September 19, 2012 - 2:09 PM
October surprise.
T’would be too funny if he does release more tax filings and they show he is among those he loathes, those 47% who pay no federal income tax.
“T’would be too funny if he does release more tax filings and they show he is among those he loathes, those 47% who pay no federal income tax.”
The free-loading millionaires club.
OMG would that cook his goose?
The fact that Reid is also a Mormon makes me think the speculation that Rmoney has not lived up to his public claims about tithing 10% every year may have something to it. As deeply proud and involved in LDS affairs as Rmoney has been, I can easily imagine his love of money being so strong, and his capital preservation duplicity so pervasive, that he even shorted the LDS.
Possibly edited Rmoney video??? Quick switch the subject, “hey Harry!”
The New York Times already answered the question. Dan should be wondering aloud why Reid is repeating the already disproven allegation, and he should be calling for his resignation for doing so.
That’s what a true journalist would do.
There is all this ruckus about who pays what in federal income tax. I am definitely in the 99%. If you own a home, a car you pay taxes. Make charitable contributions? They come off the federal income tax? Got a mortgage? Tax deductible (for now). Got kids? Deductions!
When Bill Gates, Warren Buffet et al whine about not paying enough in taxes, I have to wonder, what’s keeping them from writing a check to the IRS, or better still to the Bureau of Public Debt? I promise you they will cash the check.
4,000 of the richest in Romney’s ’47%’
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-000-richest-romneys-47-190300071.html
Mattyr, the Romney video couldn’t have been edited too much. He stood by what he said in it.
Reid forgot he had already beaten this dead horse.
Why is it that the “progressive party” has leaders like Reid and Pelosi; who, if not for their office would probably be put in retirement homes by their family due to Alzheimer’s issues?
Multi-millionaire..thats with 2 m-s.
drop one “M” from Mormon..and you still have Moron.
If it was indeed, “Possibly edited”, Romney could have easily countered that those words were not what he said….He did not do that. He has chosen instead to “explain” them and bring up comments Obama said in a 14 year old snippet from an obviously edited tape! Pitiful!
Romney repeats an “already disproven allegation” every day. Why do you want to hold others to a higher standard Suzie?
Mike O
Dementia is no laughing matter.
that’s all the libs’ve got! Romney, show us your tax returns!
Nothin’ about jobs; blaming private U.S. citizens for the attacts on our embassies in the middle east, and on the murder of our Libyan Ambassador and staff; not having a clue about our growth in national debt (for those last two, so sayeth the pres on…of all credible places…david littleman-letterman’s late night show).
the pres is a joke. he’s got all of lib hollywood, all of the media except fox news, all of the print media except, well, all of’em except the editorial staff of the WSJ, the unions, the colleges and universities (i guess this means all of the “smart” people, right?), and the government workers in local, state, and federal agencies…including the teachers in chicago who forced the kiddies to stay home and starve for over a week while the teachers protested a lib machine’s treatment of them! go figure!
many’ve got their hand out to obama….who gives them just enough $ for their vote.
what the libs fail to realize is that what they read from their own folks in the media means diddly-squat.
Not very classy mike o.
Re #11: Ronald Reagan’s widow thinks “mike o” is a jerk.
Did Reid release his tax returns??
Uhh….no.
#16, “about jobs”: 30 straight months of private sector job growth.
Recently a certain blogger who frequents this blog suggested that even Pres. Kennedy reduced tax rates. That is true. He did ask Congress to reduce taxes. The top rate before his request was 90%. The top rate after Congress followed his lead and approved rate reductions was only 70%. The top rate today is half that. Is that certain blogger suggesting we return to the rates put in place by Pres. Kennedy???
@19 Did Reid release his tax returns?? Uhh….no.
Comment by Henry — September 19, 2012 @ 8:10 pm
Henry you do know Harry Reid isn’t running for president , don’t you?
Otherwise your comment is imbecilic…
Speaking of JOBS – Why do republcans hate veterans??
GOP blocks veterans jobs bill with budget vote
09/19/12 12:35 PM ET
“Senate Republicans stopped the veterans jobs bill Wednesday by forcing a budget point of order vote.
[...]
The Veterans Jobs Corp Act would have created new job-training programs to help veterans find work in targeted fields such as national park conservation, historic preservation projects, police work and firefighting, among others.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/250391-gop-kills-veterans-jobs-bill-with-budget-vote
Ouch. This has got to hurt. I wonder what Reid knows, that we don’t?
Reid knows Obama can’t run on any issue or his record in any area; be it the economy, jobs, deficit, foreign policy or healthcare…oh wait…we know that too! Sorry Harry…Epic Fail!
hey warren,
those “30 straight months of private sector growth”…doesn’t even keep up with the growth in the work-force. maybe YOU and your LIB buddies and budets are cool with that, but the college grads living in your basements, and the folks who have lost their jobs, and the folks who FEAR losing their jobs aren’t so cool as you and your lib buddies and budets.
while your leader is out running around campaigning for Betty to have all the free rubbers she wants, promising to soak the rich job creators, and sucking up campaign cash, people are suffering here over their job situation, and over there, our state department staffs over seas are literally burning…while obama and hillary fiddle…
hey Suzie,
…dano has already admitted that he’s not a “true” journalist. Instead, he’s so proud to be an “opinion” journalist. Presumably a “true” journalist adheres to standards of some sort, while good ol’ dano and his ilk…, well they have no standards.
Maybe one day Obama will join the millionaire’s club, I guess he is not there yet. I would not question anything that Harry Reid says because he has to be one of the most honest politicians in Congress. Where would we be without him? Wouldn’t it be great if our congressmen would do what is best for our country instead of what is best for their party?
Henry…
Did Reid run for President???
Uh
NO.
Apples are over here…oranges are over there.
The heat’s getting a little to hot in the middle east. The First Idiot is starting to take some heat for its mismanagement. Reid was instructed to go out and change the subject.
#16, “about jobs”: 30 straight months of private sector job growth
Right. That’s why there’s been a net loss of jobs the past four years. Nice work, genius.
Did Reid release his tax returns??
Uhh….no.
Reid is apparently hiding some criminal activity. Why won’t he release his returns? We’re waiting.
Dan, I was just thinking, if your guy wins the election and I have to buy your lunch, suppose there aren’t any restaurants left in the Roanoke area? At the rate they’re closing, because of the Obama economy, we might have to drive to NOVA or R-D or Charlotte to find a place to eat. And at $4.00 per gallon for regular gas…how could Obama win again?
Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
― Albert Einstein
“Obama can’t run on any issue or his record in any area; be it the economy, jobs, deficit, foreign policy or healthcare.”
Jobs — 30 straight months of private-industry job growth (while Republican governors did their best to slaughter jobs in the public sectors of their states).
Foreign policy — Wars he has started: 0. (his predecessor started 2)
Healthcare — the first president EVER to get a plan for universal coverage, of a sort, through Congress; it was endorsed as constitutional by a conservative-dominated Supreme Court (it does not go far enough, though).
Deficit — It has necessarily grown, to keep the nation out of a depression. In that context, the spending was GOOD.
Economy — Obama took office with the nation in the worst economic downtown since the Great Depression. The recession officially ended in June 2009, since then there has been slow but measurable growth in the economy.
You’re all wet again, Leon!
Economy — Obama took office with the nation in the worst economic downtown since the Great Depression. The recession officially ended in June 2009, since then there has been slow but measurable growth in the economy.
Net jobs lost.
Added $5 trillion to the deficit
Personal wealth has gone down
Taxes raised on the middle class
Nice work, Mr. President.
“Otherwise your comment is imbecilic…”
Consider the source.
VRWC, you maybe don’t eat out much! There are lots and lots of restaurants here. Local Roots, Lucky, River and Rail, Billys, Horizon, Table 50, First and Sixth. Just to name a few. You’ll have no problem finding a great place!
VRWC,
There will be different results if the Dems take the House back. Though that’s unlikely, the Dems have a better chance of doing it than the Repubs do of capturing the Senate.
Have you seen those GOP senators running for the exits when they get asked about the Romney video? They’re like rats deserting a sinking ship! Scoot Brown won’t even say he support’s Romney’s candidacy any more.
In any event, once the election’s over and Obama wins, the New Yorker Deli will still be open. So (hopefully) will Angelos in Vinton.
I love to see the tea partiers rants. They complain about all the malaise of 2008 and try to say it is Obama’s fault. Leon and Frank keep mixing up the time frames of history. And then there is Suzie who has no qualms of out and out lies to support her candidate. The one she hoped would never get out of the primaries. He wasn’t as good as Bush Lite, Santorum, of newt until he won the votes. Now she wants all to accept her word that Mitt was the best after all. Whoops, that is simply wrong. The GOP simply did not have any Presidential material running this year and Mitt has proven to be a disaster. He really has no clue on foreign affairs, no clue on the economy, and obviously, no clue about who is working and who is not. 75% of those of working age are working, yet Mitt calls them lazy and moochers (Suzie’s term) off the rest of us. Let’s face it, the powers in the GOP (the money people) wanted Mitt because they could control him and pull his strings like the puppet they had in GWB. But what they have found in the puppet talks and can’t control his mouth. Mitt simply is so out of touch with a working person that he has no clue but continues to run his mouth. The puppeteers are growing weary of his failure to perform. Try again is four years.
31. Suzie – is Reid running for President? No, that’s right, he’s not. He was voted into office by the folks in his State. They have the right to ask for his returns, you do not.
30. suzie – it is hard to imagine a conservative not recognizing growth in the private sector. Surely you can count.
I knew it! Mitt couldn’t get his mother to vote for him. Video surfaces showing her speaking about their families REAL struggles and being on welfare for a time. Mitt is so out of touch with REAL America he WILL lose this election in a landslide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPZPaysBTqk
I’ve said it for months. Americans are not as stupid as the GOP is counting on. Mitts goose is cooked. Only 9 stump events in the last 20 days? That tells me Mitt is only going through the motion now. He knows. The GOP cannibalized itself during the primary season. Mitt said and did anything to get the nomination. Well, he got it, but this is as far as he gets. Now, let Mitts investigation for tax fraud begin…
BTW, from what I saw in Vegas this weekend, things are getting better. Americans spending hard earned money, having fun, enjoying life. Yeah, I’m better off now than I was 4 years ago. If you feel like its tough, keep plugging away, things will get better. This is America and Americans don’t give up, we stand up!
The Mittster seems out of gas. Maybe he should tie his dog to the roof of his car.
It must be hell, in all those debate preps he’s doing, getting stomped over and over again by Sen. Rob Portman.
I’m thinking that by the time the presidential debates begin, Obama and Biden will just have to show up, smile broadly, roll their eyes a few times and not utter a word. Why bother?
Romney and Ryan destroy themselves every time they open their mouths.
#36 Dan, if Scott Brown wants to try to be more like Elizabeth Warren than Elizabeth Warren is, he’ll be out of a job in November. If he wants to win, he’ll join R-MONEY and tell the truth about the Democratic party and its base voters. Win or lose maybe Warren will celebrate her “Native American” ancestry and smoke the peace pipe with Brown?
#35 and 36, Dan and Kristen, it’s good to know that you think there will be some restaurants around in 6-7 weeks. Hope you’re not being overly optimistic!
VRWC,
Scott Brown knows that Mitt is behind by 18 points in Massachusetts (this may be the first time ever a former governor didn’t carry his own state in a presidential election). Brown can hitch himself to that anchor if he wants to, but that’s a sure way to put an “ex” in front of his title.
“it’s good to know that you think there will be some restaurants around”
Driven by 419 West lately?
“Here’s another jobs score: Pres. Obama 4.5 million, Congressional Republicans zero”
Pres. Bill Clinton, Charlotte, N.C., Sept. 2012
Why do Rmoney and terps think disabled veterans at the V.A. are lazy parasites who don’t take personal responsibility? I don’t know, but they’re joined by Congressional Republicans:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/senate-republicans-block-jobs-bill-veterans
31. Suzie – is Reid running for President? No, that’s right, he’s not. He was voted into office by the folks in his State. They have the right to ask for his returns, you do not.
Sure I do. Reid’s incompetence affects all Americans, not just Nevadans. Besides, Reid stole his last election.
“Here’s another jobs score: Pres. Obama 4.5 million, Congressional Republicans zero”
Pres. Bill Clinton, Charlotte, N.C., Sept. 2012
Now I see Warren’s problem. He’s basing his whole presentation on something Clinton said.
…dano has already admitted that he’s not a “true” journalist. Instead, he’s so proud to be an “opinion” journalist. Presumably a “true” journalist adheres to standards of some sort, while good ol’ dano and his ilk…, well they have no standards.
Frank,
I see. i guess I come from a time where you expect at least a baseline of integrity from an employee of even a medium-sized news organization. But we’re in the MSNBC age where you’re free to completely make stuff up. As Sean Hannity has repeatedly noted; journailsm in America died in 2008.
“why bother”
Exactly. The middle east is burning and the president is meeting with pirates. It’s the liberal way. Just blame the republicans.
VRWC, I have trouble getting into the places I want to eat, and trouble making sure all the new places make it into the rotation. I’m amazed at how much Roanokers eat out, even having been in a recession.
As for the Library…tastes change. If you want to drop a lot of money, there are lots of options. Unless you want to dine at 5, make a reservation.
“Why do Rmoney and terps think disabled veterans at the V.A. are lazy parasites who don’t take personal responsibility?”
Why is Obama cutting their benefits?
““Here’s another jobs score: Pres. Obama 4.5 million, Congressional Republicans zero”
Pres. Bill Clinton, Charlotte, N.C., Sept. 2012″
There are 261,000 fewer employees on payrolls today than when Obama took office.
hey beason, you are lying. Please name one “time frame of history” thing that I’ve got mixed up.
“I have trouble getting into the places I want to eat, and trouble making sure all the new places make it into the rotation. I’m amazed at how much Roanokers eat out, even having been in a recession.”
Unreeal. This is impossible, if a single restaurant has closed. VRWC sez they’re all gonna be closed by the election.
Laugh out loud! Oh no she didn’t! Oh my goodness! What the heck! Holy Cow! She quotes Sean Hannity on journalism! Dear God, the asylum has been taken over by the inmates!
Who did you all blame for the hundreds of restaurants and businesses that closed before Obama was President? Gee, even the restaurants knew to blame the economy. And don’t go trying to pretend a president controls the economy, you’d just have to tell more lies!
Rmoney choose Ryan for running mate; Obama goes from 3 ahead to 14 ahead in Wisconsin. Id that how it was supposed to work?
Two polls now show Kaine up 7 and 8 in Virginia. I have a hard time believing it, but it is more than one poll.
#43 Don’t worry, VRWC, I’m sure the chocolate fountain will still be around. GC seems to stay pretty busy. And there’s always Chick Fil A and the cookie man in Radford (where DID that gut disappear to anyway).
My wife and I went to the Library for the first time ever about a year ago, and we went only because we couldn’t believe we had never tried it AND because we had a two-for-one coupon. First, I was struck by the age of the diners — we were the youngest people there, and I don’t think anybody would accuse us of being young. Second, the Library is a small place and it wasn’t full on a weekend night. Finally, the service was indeed impeccable and I thoroughly enjoyed the food, but neither one of us came out eagerly planning our next trip back.
I may have missed it, but looking back on these posts I don’t find a single person claiming they will desperately miss the Library. That tells me something. Heck, suzie was almost inconsolable when she realized the couldn’t go to the Golden Corral for a year.
Frank can sure say a lot literally without saying anything. Just name call, name call, no facts, no substance.
#58 That’s easy, Sandi. And restaurant that closed before Obama was simply a casualty of the natural cycle or volitility of the restaurant business. Or management didn’t do a good job. Any restaurant that closed after was the “victim” of the OBAMA economy.
Gomer says
” hey Warren, hey Suzie , hey Beason”. They say hey Gomer — er Frank .
Mike o, why is Romney’s failure to disclose his tax returns a dead horse matter? Because you say so? Shoe on the other foot you and your TP cronies would be crying for impeachment, demanding accountability, yelling foul. The failure to disclose tax returns remains a part of who Romney is, an elitist millionaire who has no concept of who Joe six pack is.
It really confuses me how a “grass roots” movement, the TP, supposedly comprised of hard working blue collar “regular folks”, could nominate as their standard bearer an elitist millionaire who not only doesn’t know how the real people in the country live but admittedly doesn’t care. I think if we did a study were done on the TP, the vast majority of those people would fall within Romney’s 47%. To me it’s like shooting yourself in the foot. It seems Romney and the TP have mutually exclusive agendas and Romney knows it but the Tea Partiers don’t.
Hey Henry, even with that, he STILL beats Bush!
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/news/economy/obama-bush-jobs/index.html
I have never eaten at The Library nor The Little Chef so neither closing affects me in any way. Both seem to have had a seriously dwindling clientele. I did eat at Tudor’s once and their biscuits did not impress. Maybe the economy, maybe their time to go. We can all guess for days, it does not matter. Restaurants fail and new ones open…all the time. Several I liked are now gone but I find new ones to love. Cheddars and Abuelos are two new favs. As more and more restaurants open, that is less clientele for the rest. It is a fact of life.
Gdad,
Restaurants closed before Obama took office? Impossible. That’s a never-fail industry. We all know that.
Next, you’ll be claiming that some other companies went bankrupt, and that some people got cancer, and that some U.S. embassies got attacked under other presidents, and so on. Total BS.
Didn’t you know that ALL the problems in the world started WITH Obama? The Great Depression and World War II were his fault. The space shuttle disasters, the Arab oil embargo, the destruction of Pompei, and so on. The dinosaurs died off because of Obama.
#66 I’m sorry, Dan, I guess I’m just one of those totally partisan Obama is God worshippers.
“I did eat at Tudor’s once and their biscuits did not impress.”
Seriously? What biscuits do impress you, Sandi?
In all fairness Dan, I should have added that no biscuits “impress” me. I have never found one that is not too “doughy” I prefer a well cooked and then open toasted biscuit which is why I mostly eat them at home.
to your train of thinking, dano…obama took the first bite of the apple, and enticed Adam to do so as well…
hey scott whitaker, please name someone or something i called “names”.
You guys better start using the sarcasm font cause some of these goobers on here ain’t gonna get it.
Nah, Frank. That’s to YOUR way of thinking. Obama caused the great flood. right?
gdad, no offense, but you guess?
“The dinosaurs died off because of Obama.”
I KNEW IT!
I just cannot, in good conscience, vote for a man who would hurl an asteroid at the Earth.
Frank, just in this thread, you called Richard a liar!
BTW, what you fail to realize is that what you read from your “own folks in the media means diddly-squat” too!
Kristen, try the breakfast at Thai Continental Cuisine. The Johk with hot sauce added to it, is the best porridge I’ve ver had.
Alright Frank, you called “beason” a liar.
Frank, then there’s “Dano”, “Obumer”, “Littleman” and you called Dan “lazy”. Just a casual observation, I get the impression from here and other blogs that you are older in years, perhaps not as much as I, but if so your immature postings certainly don’t reflect that. Of course your viewpoint is appreciated by us “libs” as it just reinforces our stereotype of TPers and really does nothing for your cause. So I withdraw my earlier criticism Frank, keep it up!!
hey scotti, if one tells a lie, then what is one?
ol’dano provides the leadership for others on his blog to follow by making fun of, or otherwise, of many conservatives who dare post on his blog. that’s where it starts. By the way, scotti, have you thought to call out ol’ dano about that little name-calling thingy he does, which you find offensive? Of course not. And, because you haven’t done that, yet you call me out, well, that’s just pathetic, scotti. so, I dub thee, “pathetic scotti”.
Debbie, ever since Lindsey featured it I’ve been jonesing to give it a try. The pictures looked delicious and Roanoke doesn’t have a ton of brunch places to. I do wish we’d get a pho shop downtown.
sandi, you are correct. however, people who lie are liars.
i never did what ol’ beason alleged that I did, which was “…. and Frank keep mixing up the time frame of history”. That hasn’t happened on anything I’ve posted on this thread, and I don’t believe applies to anything I’ve posted on ol’ dano’s blog.
Ergo, ol’ beason lied, therefore…, he’s a liar.
now, let’s deal with taxes…
according to an AP article by Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, published yesterday, the creators of obamacare grossly underestimated the number of and incomes of the people who will be hit with the penalty tax when obamacare hits in 2016. According to the article, “single people making $55,850 or less…, and families of up to four members making $115,250 or less….will represent 80% of ALL persons who will be required to pay the uninsured tax. Now comes the $64 question…. did the creators of obamacare lie? I think they did.
Or, is the AP’s Ricardo Alonzo-Zaldivar the liar?
Please advise.
It is not Dan that makes the right wingers so dishonest and insulting. They do it on the BRC blog too and those guys seldom interact and respond, much less challenge them. It is Dan’s blog and he may choose to suffer fools but he is under no obligation to allow your lies to go unchallenged and your right wing memes to be perpetuated. Call it a public service, no one makes you come here and certainly no one makes you post right wing parrot points or call the President offensive names.
quite frankly, J.M. White, I’m glad ol’ obama took out those unseemly lizards. And, they never would have paid their taxes anyway.
#82 Frank, you wouldn’t come off as quite so much of an idiot if you’d just quit with the stupid names for people.
Frank, you were the one who demanded to know who you had called “a name” and I answered you. I was not following your conversation with Richard so I do not know what he was referring to. You need to man up and admit that we are trying to meet you half way and discuss the issues and maybe you need to make some effort on your end? There are many issues we could discuss and might even agree on. If you can lay down the hammer, I can. Deal?
A person making 55K per year can afford insurance!
sandi, you raise an interesting prospect, and i can assure you that i will respond in kind.
just because ol’dano says something “is a lie”, doesn’t make it so. ergo, if he is compelled as he appears to be, to belittle people, and others follow his lead…and many libs do, sandi, you know that…doncha think there will be some blow-back?
at any rate, i share your comment the affordability of insurance for singles making $55k. The point of the article was, to me, simply to informe LOTS of people who make less than $200,000 annually that they will be taxed. Didn’t obama say they wouldn’t be taxed?
hey gdad, sooo, you do it and it’s ok, eh?
“The point of the article was, to me, simply to informe LOTS of people who make less than $200,000 annually that they will be taxed. Didn’t obama say they wouldn’t be taxed?”
Frank, you’ve already informed us, ad nauseum, that you don’t understand what the term “journalist” means. What makes you think we believe you know the definition of “tax?”
Frank @85 – NO ONE who has health insurance coverage will pay the penalty/tax – that is a FACT.
“The penalty for people who forego insurance is the greatest of two amounts: a specified percentage of income or a specified dollar amount. The percentages of income are phased in over time at 1% in 2014, 2% in 2015, and 2.5% starting in 2016. The dollar amounts are also phased in at $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 beginning in 2016 (with annual increases after that). The Congressional Budget Office projects that 3.9 million people will pay the penalty in 2016. The total penalty for the taxable year will not exceed the national average of the annual premiums of a bronze level health insurance plan offered through the health insurance Exchanges.” http://healthreform.kff.org/en/faq/will-everyone-have-to-buy-health-insurance.aspx
Here is the actual link about the “middle class” which has prompted troll concern and which has been twisted somewhat for RW purposes.
“Nearly 6 million Americans — significantly more than first estimated— will face a tax penalty under President Barack Obama’s health overhaul for not getting insurance, congressional analysts said Wednesday. Most would be in the middle class.”
[...]
“Starting in 2014, virtually every legal resident of the U.S. will be required to carry health insurance or face a tax penalty, with exemptions for financial hardship, religious objections and certain other circumstances. MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE REQUIREMENTS since they already have coverage through employers, government programs like Medicare or by buying their own policies.” [my caps for emphasis]
http://news.yahoo.com/tax-penalty-hit-nearly-6m-uninsured-people-194442599.html
It is not a “tax”, it is a penalty. If you have insurance, no penalty. The SC called it a “tax” in the sense that a penalty can be levied under the ability to tax, that does not change the fact that it is a penalty for not doing what you should. Just as if you do not pay a fine, do not pay something on time, etc, they levy a penalty. You can use the term “tax” to make it seem like Obama lied, but it is sophistry. It is a penalty.
hey Shrillary and Sandi, maybe we’re ALL right! the uninsured will get hit with a penalty-tax when their time comes…and the pre-dominent income class now expected to get “hit” with the penalty-tax is the middle class (will be about 80% of those expected to pay the penalty-tax…to be collected by TAX-collectors know as the IRS…) of singles making less than about 55k, and families of up to four having income of under about 115K. The uninsured middleclass will bear the brunt of obamacare’s penalty-tax.
If it walks like a duck…talks like a duck…
hey dano, if its collected by tax collecters employed by the IRS, please tell me where my thinking is off. And, the only way we’re even having this discussion is for the fact that “it’s a tax” as having been deemed by the conservative-led court…and you disagree with the court. heck, you can be sure that I disagree with the court, but there’s nothing I, nor you, can do about it now. Ergo, it’s a tax, dano.
certainly you are within the standards of an “opinion” journalist to express your differing opinion on that, but as you’ve posted before, you “are biased as hell”, and frankly, your biased opinions don’t ring true to all.
Scott,
I can’t speak for TP I am not one.
If I had to guess the answer might be “we’ve seen how Obama has screwed up the country, anybody would be better”.
Shrill, re: 3:59 pm
You might want to work on your reading comprehension. Try this quote from your cite:
“Nonetheless, in his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.
And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who’ll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.
Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.“
I know it may be hard for you to understand so I will make it simple…
In his first campaign promise…Obama lied…
Dan, re: 3:19 pm
You are being very unfair to Frank. I think it is Obama that does not understand his own legislation… Obama said it was not a tax, to get the legislation passed, then had his minions argue it was a tax to get it by the SCOTUS and now wants to say it is not a tax.
I, for one, figure if it will take 80 million hours of tax work for business to comply with the rules and regulations, and tens of thousands of IRS agents are being hired to enforce, and the SCOTUS says it is a tax then, it’s a TAX.
Just curious, do you think it is a tax, (like Obama said it was not before he said it was) or do you think it is a penalty (which Obama said it was before he said it was a tax, before he said it was not a tax)???
Frank – if you fail to file your tax returns, you will be assessed a penalty by the IRS. Do you really want to claim that this is a “tax” instead of a penalty since it is assessed and collected by the IRS?
By definition, taxing is a way to increase revenue, and everyone will pay it. NOT everyone will pay this ACA penalty – only those who do not have health insurance. Not everyone will be assessed a penalty by the IRS regarding their tax returns, only those who file late or who do not file at all. If the ACA were a tax everyone would pay it – but only those who fail to buy health insurance will have to pay the penalty [that which you keep calling a tax]. Failure to file tax returns = penalty collected by the IRS; failure to purchase health insurance = penalty collected by the IRS. These are penalties, not taxes. Do you see the difference?
mike O
Do you ever pay sales tax? I’m sure you do. I do, too. It is broad. It applies equally to ANYONE who buys groceries, tools, clothing, wine, beer, dog food and whatnot. About the only thing there is no tax on is over the counter medicine. And that applies equally to all as well.
I have health insurance. It’s rotten in many ways (but better than many others’) and quite apart from that I pay a boatload for it. The “tax” you are talking about will not impact me. Do you have health insurance? Then “the tax” it will not impact you. Except, it MIGHT help keep your future premiums from increasing so steeply, if your coverage doesn’t has to indirectly absorb the free hospital care from people who have no coverage.
The law requires you to get health insurance, or to pay a penalty. Virginia law does the same thing for every driver. Are you worked up about THAT?
So the answer is no, I don’t consider it “a tax.” I’m glad the Supreme Court upheld it, but I can’t get worked up about Roberts’ reasoning, no matter how tortured you find it. And you can’t hold Obama to Roberts’ definition.
You can say it (badly) over and over, it does not make it the truth. The SC did not say it was “a tax” they said the penalty was constitutional under the “lay taxes” prerogative of Congress.
The IRS collects taxes, yes. They also will deduct from any refund, child support, federal court fees and any and all penalties assessed against a taxpayer. Do you want the government to create a new bureaucracy to collect penalties so you can’t call them a tax?
Whine till your fingers are nubs. It is a penalty. It is avoidable if you show some responsibility and do the right thing. It is not a tax that is assessed by anyone but you.
mike o @ 98 – please don’t worry about my reading comprehension, work on your own:
For example you posted, “80 percent of those who’ll face the penalty” – see it is a PENALTY. But you also added a paragraph about taxes – which has nothing to do with the ACA – and the middle class. Weren’t you one of the RWers who claim everyone should pay their fair share? So what’s your beef now, when the ACA will make everyone be responsible for their own healthcare?
Words matter. As you can see from this quote from your own post: OF THOSE WHO WILL FACE THE PENALTY – which means [I'll make this easy for you] those who fail to purchase their own health insurance, and ONLY THOSE WHO DO NOT PURCHASE HEALTH INSURANCE will face a penalty.
Everyone, whether they make a gazillion dollars, or middle class or less will have to pay a proportionate penalty. What is so hard for you RWers to comprehend – this is not rocket science – but Arithmetic.
There is a percentage that will apply – and some with low incomes will not pay the same as those with more, but EVERYONE must buy their own health insurance…and, additionally the full effect is not until 2016 – a fair amount of time for everyone who doesn’t already have insurance to get their finances in order…
Why is it almost impossible to have a reasoned discussion with RWers?
“Obama said it was not a tax, to get the legislation passed, then had his minions argue it was a tax to get it by the SCOTUS and now wants to say it is not a tax.”
Comment by mike O — September 20, 2012 @ 6:44 pm
mike O: you have concisely demonstrated how getting things done in government requires certain language for each branch. We elected these clowns, year after year after year, and now our entire government is utterly infested with doublespeaking lawyers, redefining the language to fit any given agenda. This is not a partisan problem and to suggest that it is wholly disingenuous. They’re ALL lawyers, remember that. That entire industry is driven by the manipulation and interpretation of language.
It’s all a play on words to elicit certain emotive reactions from their respective bases and thus to exert a measure of control. Our entire government has become a puppet show, only our elected officials are not the puppet masters. Their strings are pulled by money and wealthy special interests and in turn, our strings are pulled by the manipulation of their words.
The truly sad thing is that it seems to actually be getting easier for them to do it to us. I fear we are fast approaching a point of no return – not a peaceful one, anyway.
i enjoy watching the libs equivocate! I enjoy the sounds my ears hear as their heads spin. I think they should use a good dose of lube (not that wd-40 stuff…, although that stuff is good in a pinch!), so their heads won’t build up that screeching heat, and smell, as they spin! now, where was I? oh yeah…
dano, why’s so hard for you to agree with the supremes? they gave you what you wanted…all except for calling what you wanted … a “tax”.
by the way, what do you call what happened to Chris Stevens….something inspirational caused by religous zealots…or something done by terrorists?
Why has our potus now changed stories about what happened in Libya? what has he learned over the past 24 hours that your eyes and my eyes and Romney’s eyes didn’t see… oh, like maybe, more than a WEEK ago? Take your time, you can only give us so much opinion journalism, ya know! Please tell us what, exactly, caused obama to flip-flop on the cause of the Libyan fiasco…and why is the “tax” not a tax? By the way, regarding the “tax”… the answer is not a political opinion…it’s now a fact. deal with it.
hey J.M. Those lawyers include obama. why do you think obama has changed his tune on what caused the Libya tragedy?
Also, is what the SC has ruled on obamacare caused the uninsured to be “taxed” or “penalized”? The court ruled it was a “tax”, ’cause without the tax, obamacare was unlawful. What say you (please don’t go into what lawyers do…i got that, and agree with you)? Is it a tax, or a penalty?
Dan,
Sorry, your ignorance of legal interpretation is not my concern. (maybe you should have studied law instead of chemistry, philosophy, etc… lol)
I suggest you read, and then reread the SCOTUS opinion. (also, reading the arguments might also help you understand).
What you “consider a tax” is meaningless to what the law is.
I only hold Obama to Obama’s multiple definitions, which you conveniently ignore…
Shrill,
My quote came from your cite… I did not make up anything… if you are confused, it is because the entire legislation was meant to confuse (I should not fault you for your ignorance). Lest we not forget the famous quote from Pelosi “we have to pass it so we can know what is in it”…
I know what is “in it” you seem very ill informed, even when you post news excerpts.
Sandi,
Simply said, you are wrong…
Finally,
This entire debate would be humorous if it were not so important. It is a perfect example of the term “useful idiots”. There are three simple steps to enlightenment on this issue. 1.) study the arguments favoring the passage of the legislation. 2.) study the arguments for the law argued before the SCOTUS. 3.) read the spin after the decision.
Every intelligent analyst agrees that it is a tax… therefore Obama lied…
hey Mike O. you better watch youself, they are at least responding to you with very weak arguments, while with me they just ignore. Thank you for your support. your support i appreciate, and I hope it doesn’t harm you…
i’m simply amazed at the pretzel-like contortions that the libs on ol’ dano’s blog will put themselves through to avoid dealing with the fact… That fact is, and it’s a settled fact, that the “penalty”, ahem, is really a tax, cause if it WAS a “penalty”, ahem, we wouldn’t be dealing with obamacare now! They are are as falsely transparent as they could possibly be….except for their own lying eyes, or their mothers’!
Shrill,
Re: “Why is it almost impossible to have a reasoned discussion with RWers?
Although I do not consider myself a RWer, I might suggest that the difficulty lies in your inability to accept facts.
I suggest you not be so closed minded and myopic. Open your mind to a broader point of view.
hey dano…if the tax were not deemed a tax, would we now be debating obamacare?
and, dano, please write a column about what obama REALLY meant when he spouted off on the littleman, oops, letterman…oops, Letterman show, about who it was, exactly, that invaded our Libyan Consulate, and why they r–ed, tortured, and killed Chris Stevens and 3 of his staffers…
…was it really islamists pissed off about the American-made film that obama INSISTED was the cause, or did it maybe have sompthin’ to do with 9/11, and the fact that the bad guys just hate america (you know…what they were shouting in Cairo…”hey obama, we’re all osamas!? do ya think our fearless leader thumped his chest just once too many times, whatdaya say, eh??
Sandi,
I might be remiss if I did not suggest to that you do some actual study of issues before you post ill advised blather (note I did not use the word ignorant).
Parroting that which you hear on MSNBC, Huffpost, etc… does not prove you enlightened.
I’ll try to answer your questions, Frank.
#1: I don’t know. I’m not Obama and I’m not privy to the information that he is, so I can’t wager a guess as to his motivations for anything. I believe the whole thing is inconvenient timing. The movie, no doubt, was made and intentionally advertised at an opportune time in order to attempt to cause a crisis in the middle of an election. If there were already planned attacks, this event only played into the attackers hands. That anyone is using this situation as a political device is shameful – this includes bloggers using it trying to stir the pot.
#2,3,4 – You stated, “The court ruled it was a “tax”, ’cause without the tax, obamacare was unlawful.” That only reinforces exactly what I said in #103. It was ruled a tax by the SCOTUS, but it fits no true definition of a tax of which I’m aware. IMO, a tax is a compulsory fee paid to the government made by all citizens who use a service (in this case, health care). Since those who purchase insurance policies will not be required to pay this fee, I don’t think it can be classified as a tax. Indeed, it fits the dictionary definition of a penalty in this context. Not having insurance is in non-compliance with the law, therefore you are penalized for it.
Questions for you, Frank:
Given that being insured = not having to pay the fee and being uninsured = having to pay the fee, how do you personally define this fee as a tax? Be careful how you answer because depending on how expansive you get with it, you may find a LOT of things that need to be redefined as taxes. Homeowners’ and car insurance are just the start of it.
Shrill,
Re: “Why is it almost impossible to have a reasoned discussion with RWers?
Although I do not consider myself a RWer, I might suggest that the difficulty lies in your inability to accept facts.
I suggest you not be so closed minded and myopic. Open your mind to a broader point of view.
That’s it exactly, Mike O. It’s very frustrating trying to talk to leftwingers because:
1. They can be confronted with 100% airtight proof, then deny, qualify, or ignore it.
2. They KNOW the Democrats are lying about Romney, and they don’t care.
3. They go along blindly with everything a Democrat says, even though it’s an obvious lie; e.g. the embassy attacks were caused by a two-bit movie.
4. They aren’t intelliigent people, and Girl needs a challenge.
Wow, the taste of defeat is bitter for the neocons. It isn’t even November yet and the desperation in their comments is simply laughable. I thought Mittens was going to win on the economy? Why the focus on Obama care folks? Romney says he’s proud to be the grandfather of Obama care. The man is like a ship without a rudder and folks whining about this flavor of the day are a sad sack lot.
“Politics ain’t beanbags.” Maybe someone should have advised Mittens not to write off 47% of the electorate so quickly. Not very bright when you consider these 47% are senior citizens, wounded veterans or active duty soldiers getting SNAP. More of the 47%? Laid off American workers waiting to get back to work, and many Americans who just didn’t have mommy and daddy to borrow money from to go to college or start a business. Oh yeah, but the plan was to get 5-10% of these Americans to vote against their own interests and put Romney in office. I guess you could call them useful idiots. Well, it’s not gonna happen. Americans are smart. Romney just doesn’t have a clue how the average American lives. It’s not the Obama voter who needs to open their minds. Those folks are are just fine and will be so in November too.
Face it. Romney sucks and him and lyin’ Ryan are going down to a worse defeat than McCain and Palin. What republicans should be working on now is regaining control of the GOP and kicking the tea party out while they still have a party. Continue this slide to the far right and the GOP will soon find itself extinct. Oh, but that’s the plan, I suspect.
Fearless prediction; the terrorists that killed Chris Stevens will wake up to the sound of a ATG missile breaking the sound barrier fired from a predator drone, preceding the harsh realization that you can’t outrun a missile and that Allah did not provide the 62 virgins he promised in the hereafter. Shortly after this event Frank(Get off my damn lawn!) will post on Dan’s blog how outrageous it is that President Obama is killing terrorists so close to an election trying to make Mitt and chedderbomb look weak.
If President Obama crapped gold bricks and gave them to poor cancer patients without health insurance Frank would bitch about socialism or something. God, we deserve a medal for having to continually plow through his endless posts droning on about opinion journalism, 30 inch columns and whatever else pisses this simpleton off at the moment.
Dan, the “ignore” feature can’t come soon enough!
#112 Good golly, suzie just described right wingers and herself to a T.
It’s 72 virgins, Steven. 72.
And what, no “life” update on this thread? Lame.
Either way, Steven, kudos to you for at least being man enough to admit that it was terrorism that killed Chris Stevens and not some movie. Ya boy was still blaming the movie as recently as yesterday while his administration was busy admitting Stevens’ death was due to a terrorist attack.
The cognitive dissonance of the right wingers who post here is truly astounding. How you people find process information and explain your “facts” is very much like watching a criminal explain their innocence. Un-be-freakin-lievable!
“Chief Justice John Roberts explained the divergent conclusions by writing, “It is of course true that the Act describes the payment as a ‘penalty,’ not a ‘tax.’ But while that label is fatal to the application of the Anti-Injunction Act … it does not determine whether the payment may be viewed as an exercise of Congress’s taxing power. It is up to Congress whether to apply the Anti-Injunction Act to any particular statute, so it makes sense to be guided by Congress’s choice of label on that question. That choice does not, however, control whether an exaction is within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.”
“… went too far when he said that the Supreme Court ruled that the mandate is a tax. Several legal scholars told us that the court ruled that the mandate acts like a tax, or is analogous to one, but not that it is one – a small linguistic distinction, but an important legal one.
“The Supreme Court did not say, ‘It’s a tax,’ but rather, ‘It does not matter if it was called a tax, because Congress could have done this in the form of a tax, which it is permitted to do,’
…The Supreme Court found the law constitutional based on Congress’ taxing authority, but nowhere in the opinion did Roberts say that the individual mandate actually was a tax“…
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/05/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-health-care-laws-penalty-tax/
You can say to-ma-to and I can say to-mah-to. Call it what you want. I do not believe it is “a tax”. You cannot prove me wrong, you can only use “political speech” to pretend I am. Typical.
Daaaaan,
It’s just staring at the wall and barking away, again. At least let it outside, man.
#118 matt, you really should just quit being so stupid. We’re going to have to talk to Hollins about revoking your supposed degree.
Frank: I’m still waiting for an answer to #111, sir.
I was polite enough to answer your questions to me…
hey J.M., sorry about the delay. it wasn’t intentional, but, since I asked the questions, I should have come back and checked earlier.
well, now, things just aren’t as simple as we’d like, are they? so, if we own real estate, we get taxed. if we own a car, we get taxed. if we don’t own a health insurance policy, we get taxed. and J.M., for certain, i don’t think it’s a tax…never have. however, it’s not up to you or I to decide. if the SC ruled that it was not a tax, we’d be having something else to agree, or disagree with. The fact is that the SC says it’s a tax. in my opinion, that settles it…it’s the law of the land, unless and until it gets changed.