Preacher from the pulpit: The bible says to vote for Romney
Below you can see Pastor Jim Garlow of Skyline Church in San Diego, one of many preachers who endorsed political candidates during services Sunday in a protest called Pulpit Freedom Sunday. He and the other were protesting a phony, completely concocted ban on free speech from the pulpit.
Let’s be clear about this: Nobody in federal government has ever told Rev. Garlow or ANY other pastor what they can and cannot say from the pulpit. They have a right under the First Amendment to say whatever they want to.
What churches and other nonsectarian not-for-profit organizations CANNOT necessarily do, however, is maintain their cherished tax free status as a 501(C)3 charity while urging people to vote for certain candidates. That rule has been on the books for 58 years.
And that is the phony “freedom” they claim they’re being denied. They cannot have their cake and eat it, too. They have no “right” under the constitution to tax-free status.
Boo hoo. Doesn’t Garlow care about his credibility? Hasn’t he ever heard of the ninth commandment?
October 8, 2012 - 5:44 PM
If you and all the left leaning people in this country have your way I am
certain you will soon wish you had not. You’ve taken God out of the schools, out of the Courts, made it a crime to put a cross in your yard and when you finally get the communist government you covet so very much and the muslims take over this Country I hope you live long enough to see the consequences of your thoughts and actions.
There is physical love and there is spiritual love. Either way, selling love for money is prostitution. I hope the government taxes his whorehouse out of business. Then maybe he’ll start helping his neighbors for free like the rest of us.
The highest principle of all is love and the golden rule, which is an innate idea that carries its own authority. We don’t need wicked or delusional blowhards like this (of all religions) trying to milk us by standing between us and the eternal. We all report directly to the spirit of love, (though many disobey as they are still lost in selfishness).
ahhhhh yes another brilliant comment from the right @1
So you want to tax every church that endorses a candidate? You might want to rethink that one. The vast majority are Democrat.
The vast majority of churches are Democrat? The vast majority of churches that are political are Democrat? The vast majority of Christian teaching is Democrat? What is it you are trying to say Henry? Where are the Democratic churches and political efforts on par with Liberty University and the heirs to The Moral Majority? It will not be ONLY the churches affected if this comes down on them as they deserve, on that can of worms you may rely.
So Doug Thompson, I won’t carve your statement up (no pun intended, Dan) because the others here will do it in grand style, but I think one person’s God in the courtroom where another person’s God/god is not welcome is part of the problem.
Let me know how it goes with defending the right to have a cross in your front yard (which I agree with, BTW). The Klan’s burning of crosses is where those limited bans came from. Would you support the right of Muslims to have religious symbols in their yards?
@1
Mr. Thompson,
I gotta ask this: If the left leaning liberals are no friend to God in the schools, courts, and won’t left you put signs (religious ones,I assume) in your yard, then why the heck would the same left leaning liberals allow muslims to take over the country?
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that the pastor doesn’t simply trust that the congregation will see Godly virtues in one candidate that they won’t see in the other. Just by being there, they are more likely to have less ability to reason virtue for themselves in general.
“Would you support the right of Muslims to have religious symbols in their yards?”
Sure, as long as those symbols aren’t lighted on fire for the purpose of terrorizing others.
Btw, I can’t speak for Doug Thompson, but I support the right of Muslim children to pray in public schools, silently, and for the rights of Muslim attendees at RoCo Board of Supes meetings to pray silently, to.
But if the imams in their mosques begin saying crap like the Quran says good Muslims must vote for George Allen, or Tim Kaine, or anyone else, then I support their right to say that, too. I also support the yanking of their tax-free status by the feds.
Again, this is NOT a free-speech-in-church issue. This is an issue of whether taxpayers should be subsidizing nonprofit institutions that take overt action to change or control the governments that subsidize them.
“So you want to tax every church that endorses a candidate?”
Yes.
There, that was easy.
I’ll take extreme right over extreme left anyday. Extreme right will tend to swing back toward the middle. Extreme left just keeps going off the depth meter to zero, then to flat , then to minus reading, to no reading.
Hopefully after the election of Romney we can see the country swing back to the middle. Obama has taken it so far left that it may be difficult to get it back. I don’t think the pastors are endorsing Romney so much as they are trying to get people to vote for a person with somewhat Godly principles and decency/truth. Those qualities are very hard to discover in most liberal democrats; they believe in every god under the sun and are accountable to no one. There is a point where God laughs at all of this and then there is a point where He will bring judgment and order. We are about to see the latter when Romney is elected.
It seems a good Christian wouldn’t let a preacher tell him how to vote anyway. Read the book and make up your own mind.
11 Well-said, Kendra.
Frankly, there is no such thing as ‘far-right’. How would recognize that? Too much freedom? Too much autonomy? Too godly? Too much prosperity? Too little racial division? Too many choices? Too much employment?
I’d love to find out, but I guess I’ll have to wait until I get to heaven.
Re: Comment by Dan Casey — October 8, 2012 @ 7:54 pm
Again, this is NOT a free-speech-in-church issue. This is an issue of whether taxpayers should be subsidizing nonprofit institutions that take overt action to change or control the governments that subsidize them.
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Bingo!
Nothing new.
http://tinyurl.com/9ydzzsu
**
Sunday, Sep 24 2006 01:09 AM
Churches struggling to keep politics out of pulpit
BY MARK BARNA, Californian staff writere-mail: mbarna@bakersfield.com
Be careful when voicing your political opinion. The Internal Revenue Service may be listening.
Since 2004 and the re-election of President Bush, the IRS has cracked down on nonprofit organizations, including churches, that outwardly or tacitly support political candidates.
SNIP
On Sept. 15, the IRS stepped up its investigation of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, which is suspected of distributing anti-Bush information during the 2004 election, the Los Angeles Times reported.
SNIP
**
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http://tinyurl.com/8juovne
**
Churches grapple with what tax code allows regarding election issues</b?
By Patricia Zapor
Catholic News Service
WASHINGTON (CNS) — With another election looming, politicians, religious leaders, candidates and the Internal Revenue Service are again contemplating a perennial American political question: Where is the line that divides the appropriate and inappropriate interplay of religion and politics?
As politicians try to reach voters by tapping into religious organizations, the efforts raise red flags with the IRS, which is wary of tax-exempt organizations that may be endorsing candidates and political parties.
Meanwhile, priests, ministers and rabbis seek to guide their congregations in how to apply the lessons of faith to politics, while steering clear of sometimes confusing IRS regulations for tax-exempt charities, lest they find themselves subject to lengthy investigations, legal challenges and costly fines.
SNIP
**
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http://tinyurl.com/9t7k5sj
Alter the Catholic Church’s Tax Status?
By David Burnham; David Burnham, a former New York Times correspondent, is working on a book about the Internal Revenue Service
Published: July 29, 1988
In 1979, lawyers working with the National Abortion Rights Action League began presenting the Internal Revenue Service with scores of anti-abortion documents that had been distributed by groups connected with the Roman Catholic Church. The lawyers contended that these newsletters, leaflets, questionnaires, reports and articles proved that the church had systematically violated the law forbidding tax exempt institutions from participating in campaigns for elective office or devoting a substantial amount of their activities to influencing legislation.
Almost 25 years ago, the I.R.S. revoked the tax exempt status of Christian Echoes, a nonprofit religious organization, on the very same grounds. Eight years later, the United States Court of Appeals in Denver agreed, ruling that the I.R.S.’s action had not violated the provision of the First Amendment protecting the free exercise of religion.
The court said the tax agency’s revocation was constitutional because, while the exercise of religion was indeed a right that is fully protected by the First Amendment, tax exemption is a privilege that is granted by the Federal Government under a set of rules established by law.
SNIP
**
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http://tinyurl.com/974g467
Church Political Actions Threaten Tax Exemptions
The Telegraph – Dec 31, 1971
It also was pointed up in a study by a group of Episcopal attorneys, saying the … threats by government agents of a loss of tax exemption have frightened churches into … to Influence legislation, or taking sides in political campaigns for election.
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http://tinyurl.com/8jf2yjl
**
St. Joseph Gazette – May 16, 1966
Tax Issue Being Raised About Two Magazines … two magazines are The Christian Century, an ecumenical weekly … and The Churchman, an Episcopal monthly ….
SNIP
**
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I could keep going but I think folk should get the point.
Kendra, are you saying Romney was sent hete by God? Is Mitt an angel or a prophet or something like that, sent by the Lord to “bring judgment and order?”
Is it really a crime to put a cross in your yard? Assuming it’s not burning, of course. Really?
Again, this is NOT a free-speech-in-church issue. This is an issue of whether taxpayers should be subsidizing nonprofit institutions that take overt action to change or control the governments that subsidize them.
Comment by Dan Casey — October 8, 2012 @ 7:54 pm
Isn’t this much the same question as using taxpayer dollars to fund abortions? How much Federal funding has gone to ACORN or Planned Parenthood? Lypocrisy at work.
Should be sent here, not sent hete. This on-screen droid keyboard is a pain!
Who says god is in the churches? Hopefully he is in many of them, however, I can swear his absence from several I have attended.
“Extreme right will tend to swing back toward the middle.”
Yes, there is ample evidence of this here.
Alfred:
13.”It seems a good Christian wouldn’t let a preacher tell him how to vote anyway. Read the book and make up your own mind.”
That’s the whole point, Alfred. The best “Christians” don’t make up their own minds at all. They are more comfortable letting preachers make up their minds for them, at least publicly.
{deep breath}
Aaaaaand, away I go.
I have no problem with any church endorsing and encouraging their members to vote for whomever they may please. In fact, I’d encourage all of them to do so. Their tax-free status can then be revoked and BLAM, instant increase in tax revenue. Win-win, right? They get their freedom of speech that they claim is being squashed and it’s revenue-positive. Remember: only job creators deserve tax breaks; everyone else must pay their fair share. Render unto Caesar… but tax not the churches? I don’t recall that line being in the Bible… or our Constitution.
Now, on to the ridiculous comments:
I like how Doug Thompson seems to think that we can somehow completely remove God from this country, but not Allah. By his logic, that would make Allah more powerful than God by default, would it not? Apparently, Mr. Thompson’s God is weak and somewhat incompetent.
I, too, hope I live long enough to see God removed from everything, Islam take over and our communist government that we covet so very much come to fruition. Since it’s not going to happen, it means I’ll live forever.
Kendra says:“There is a point where God laughs at all of this and then there is a point where He will bring judgment and order.” You’re right if the prophecies are true. It is prophesied that God will indeed bring judgement and order to His creation – after He lets his biggest mistake, Satan and his army, reign for a thousand years of hell on Earth… but that’s after he unleashes the Beast upon us in the first place… which is after War, Famine, Pestilence and Death are let off their respective chains to kill a third of the population.
Until then, as you say, He’s sitting up there laughing at all of this suffering, hatred, anguish, and other various and sundry evils which He allows to exist. He created us, doomed us to suffer evil and also apparently finds it humorous. Strange… that’s not benevolence; that’s sadism. It’s worth repeating: having the absolute power to completely end suffering and choosing not to wield it while watching said suffering is utterly sadistic.
So, we’ve established that God won’t stop His creations from completely removing Him from this country, He won’t stop Islam from taking His place, and also seems to find great pleasure in our doubt and pain. God also kills and allows killing, but tells us not to kill. He covets our worship to the point of eternal damnation if we don’t, but tells us not to covet. He tells us to guide and discipline our children, but lets his own petulant child, Satan, do as he pleases, even to the point of making God have to start this Grand Experiment over, twice.
Exactly why is He worthy of my worship again?
It seems to me that worshiping God as you people define Him is little more than a rabid case of Stockholm Syndrome.
What this so called preacher is doing is against the IRS tax rules. They should take their tax exempt status from them.
I’m a Christian and this disgusts me. Baptized as a Baptist, but definitely not oe now. I believe in a personal realtionship with God guiding my conscience and vote – not a pastor. Other nnprofits that work with vulnerable groups abide by laws to protect their nonprofit status. The IRS should revoke the churches’ nonprofit status. They are PACs, not churches now. Jesus’ example was to intentionally stay out of the politics of his time. These pastors need to follow his example. I don’t attend church anymore because I don’t want to be judged for my liberal politics – what a shame.
Billy Graham sites Original Sin as the reason God allows such suffering.
It’s one of the biggest problems I have with the faith.
I have attended a church that tries to tell you to vote Republican every general election because they are the most moral. I think they need to stay out of politics and whatever rights we have left which is shrinking by the day. The same one also promotes Rush Limbaugh, that I don’t understand. As far as the tax status thing once they get into other businesses which a lot of them are doing now then I think their tax exempt status should be revolked.
Suzie@8:26
I think you are in for as very long and very frustrating wait!This is the only time you will ever see me use this stupid exclamation on this blopg. But somehow it seems appropriate this time only . So here goes.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
perhaps the left could use the tax exempt money for future entitlements. it would help them buy more votes.
Appropriate for this thread…..
Report: US Protestants lose majority status
Let’s start here in Virginia
http://www.christianpost.com/news/black-pastors-meet-in-va-to-discuss-support-for-obama-81083/
and next door
http://elev8.com/606240/rev-otis-moss-ii-rev-charles-jenkins-standing-up-for-obama/
Moochelle agrees
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghengler/2012/07/02/michelle_obama_to_black_church_no_place_better_than_church_to_talk_about_politics
Hey JR,
Name the church or it doesn’t exist.
I’m a Methodist and we practically endorsed Obama from the pulpit.
Watching these fundies have to push a Mormon is pretty funny. I guess God doesn’t love the Falwells the best.
I would loved to have seen you at my church Dan. We had homecoming… Invited politicians………..
A Dem. running for congress showed up!
Awwwwwkkkkwarrrrrd!
Didn’t stick around for the free lunch!
“Billy Graham sites Original Sin as the reason God allows such suffering.
It’s one of the biggest problems I have with the faith.”
Wait a minute. You are telling me that two naked people ate a piece of forbidden fruit after talking to a snake, and that is why children get cancer?
And this is the religion that runs our country? Eff that.
#24
aaaaaaah ..here I go…
Jesus loves you.
Any idiot who thinks the “Extreme right will tend to swing back toward the middle“, only proves their ignorance of the extreme right! Romney winning this election does nothing to move this nation or the divide the extreme right has created, in the right direction. Quite the contrary in fact. That you do not see that is proof of what you lack in gray matter. There is no other way to describe it.
The extreme right wants the kind of control and dangerous interference in personal lives that ruins nations and causes strife that cannot end. The way they have demonized the very government they want to control speaks volumes as to their motives and their ignorance. It is not “tough love”, it is simple minded stupidity. That is why their preachers need to tell them who to vote for. What they cannot do is align that with the right kind of Biblical teaching. It is not in there.
Again proving why you are called “low effort” voters.
Teresa
My pastor was great, he had two folders of different colors…each containing the platform of each party, but didnt name them.
Then he read from each one their beliefs about different things.
Then he reminded them how often each party’s platform changes, but the Bible never does.
#9 Dan
So its ok for Imams to say death to infidels and Israel.
But its not ok to say how they should vote.
The Left’s views at its best!
Churches should not be tax exempt, period.
#12 “and then there is a point where He will bring judgment and order. We are about to see the latter when Romney is elected.”
Jeez, another good reason not to elect Romney.
#1 “made it a crime to put a cross in your yard ”
Please provide some evidence for this moronic statement, Doug.
Tax breaks for churches in general are an anachronism which should be done away with. That and their privilege to secret their books away from the prying eyes of regulators.
To qualify as a tax exempt or charity organization you should have to have less than 1/2 of your take dedicated to operating expenses. Most churches have an outreach somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of their take. Disgraceful.
Southern Baptists used to believe that each person had their own relationship with God and interpreted God’s teachings for himself. The Baptists left me when they became controlled by Texas and began telling me what and how I should believe. Baptists have gone from teaching Mormonism is a cult to supporting the Mormon faith and one of its Bishops for President of the US. For a faith that preaches that truths do not change, the Baptists have changed to a denomination controlled by Texas conservatives for political power not the glory of God.
The Baptists left me years ago, I cannot be a part of such.
I see that the numbers of the religiously unaffiliated continue to grow in the U.S. Sixty-eight percent of these people believe in God and many pray, but they have no need to listen to a person tell them how or what to pray — or how to vote for that matter.
Also, for the first time ever, the U.S. is no longer majority Protestant (48 percent).
“Again proving why you are called “low effort” voters.”–SS
Lol. Sandi’s been low effort her entire life, and it shows.
PP, it doesn’t sound to me like your pastor violated the regulation.
It was nice for the church to feed its hungry flock, too. Did that include instructions on how to catch (or harvest), butcher, prepare and cook the food? Or did the church merely feed them for a day, and thus encourage dependency?
The great deceiver just wants you to denounce the existence of god.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/comment-page-33/
#45 I know a n umber of people who remain Baptist but had to leave the Southern Baptists for the very reasons you cite, Richard. Whole congregations left, in fact.
“The Baptists left me years ago, I cannot be a part of such.”
If you had a relationship with Christ, he didn’t leave you. Churches are not perfect, just like its people. God doesnt want religion, he wants a relationship.
Dan #48, I think the word would be Fellowship. But as far as our food pantry is concerned, we help to feed around 50 families weekly..most of which do not attend our church.
That is called the citizens taking care of its own. Not the government. At some points, there have been instances of people abusing the pantry. One family showed a few years back to pick up food in a 2003 Ford F250 extended Cab…
The Dem’s policies create this same type of fraud. A “take it if we can get away with it” attitude.
“The great deceiver just wants you to denounce the existence of god.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/comment-page-33/”
So you can’t believe in God if you aren’t part of a church? If that is the case, which is the right one to be part of? There’s a lot of choices out there.
Dan regarding comment #48. The message prior to the meal is what prepares you for life. The meal is fellowship. Only dependency taught there is the dependence on the Lord.
“Churches should not be tax exempt, period.”
- Comment by Contrasuzie — October 9, 2012 @ 9:15 am
Bingo! We have a winner.
#24
aaaaaaah ..here I go…
Jesus loves you.
Comment by pistol pete — October 9, 2012 @ 8:52 am
He sure does. He loved me when an 11-year-old child was given the “gift” of non-Hodgkins lymphoma. He loved me when that child was given a less than 15% chance of living for another year. He loved me as I watched other children around me fall like dominoes to a horrible affliction for which none of them asked. He loved me when that child’s family abandoned him, too terrified to watch any longer as he wasted away. He loved me as that child prayed for death to release him from the torment. He loved me when that completely hairless, constantly sick, 80-lbs. child sat up in bed and cursed and denounced God for the suffering inflicted upon him. He loved me when that child, against all odds, started getting better. That was 30 years ago, and he loves me still.
This is not about love, though. This is about a weak, fallible God demanding that I bow at his feet and worship Him. I don’t doubt His love; I doubt His power and I doubt His intent. He created evil (some claim by accident) and claims He can control it, but will only vanquish it at His convenience (after we all suffer greatly, of course). He has an 0-1 record against evil, too; you can reference the story of Noah for your evidence.
To be clear, I do believe in a higher power; I just refuse to believe that people like you have any freaking clue as to what it is.
Pete – I concur with Dan.
Your pastor is not in violation of the regulation and should be fine.
501(c)3 non-profits can legally endorse ideas, just not candidates. They can support the separation of church and state and be fine. They can oppose abortion and be fine. They can not endorse Mitt or Barack and remain within the regulation.
I never get tired of watching grown people fling the poo of their religions at one another! Entertainment like this can’t be bought at any price. And while all that 100% non-productive crap is going on, secular charity is busy helping people.
It is the 80-90%+ of people who fill the pews at church and know the religious game well, but don’t know their own God who ARE the problem.
58, John..I agree with you! I dont know about 80-90%, but yes there are those who play religion and don’t know God. They are the ones who hurt our cause and give non-believers the arrows to throw.
J.M.
One of my best friends had the same thing. His child was 4 and died of a brain tumor. I also had close friends who lost 6 children in a house explosion…remember this:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/45822
God doesn’t promise a perfect world. He actually tells us we live in an evil one. However, he is our comfort. Only he can help us to deal with pain.
Also, Look up these on amazon
Louie Giglio – “Fruitcake and Ice Cream” or “Hope”
pp, I remember that explosion, it wasn’t long after I moved here. I can’t imagine losing that many children and having to stay strong for the ones who are left.
This is all I’ll say about our “evil” world. Is the premise that kids get brain cancer and families die in accident because we’re evil? That if we weren’t, childhood cancer would somehow disappear? Is God punishing us (and especially people like your friends) for the evil in the world by taking their children? Because that’s a pretty harsh punishment for sins that might well have been committed by someone on the other side of the planet.
Kristen + PP
This is a justification for why the world doesn’t look like it would if a 5-omni being made it. It really makes much more sense if you consider the world a product of the natural forces we understand.
A immensely vast universe mainly made up of empty space with a few points of light we may never reach a few of which are surrounded by uninhabitable rocks. A hundred billion galaxies with a hundred billion stars each, A planet which is about 10-15% habitable, highly dangerous, where animals eat each other to survive and disease and parasites abound. A hard life for us, scrounging about on the surface of this inhospitable rock, many of us dieing for lack of food and shelter every day.
All of this makes much more sense if the world is not made by a god who loves us, but naturalistic physical processes which don’t care if we live or die.