Your analysis of the 3rd — and final — 2012 presidential debate
Did Obama win? Did Romney falter? Or was it the other way around?
Put your post-debate reaction in the comments below. Here’s mine:
Romney supports Obama’s policy on Libya. Romney agree with Obama on standing with Israel. Romney agrees with Obama’s use of drones. Romney believes the Obama administration did the right thing with Egypt.
And Romney believes (this time) that we should have tough sanctions on Iran. Which the Obama administration put in place.
Romney advocates a “comprehensive strategy” with Muslim nations — which he completely failed to outline. He claimed Obama went on an apology tour of the world, which is false. A whopper.
And FINALLY, Romney agrees with Obama on Detroit! Now, that is. Forget that essay he penned an essay in the New York Times titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”
The question all this leaves in my mind, is this: If Romney agrees with Obama on so much, why change horses now?
Except for a “comprehensive strategy” on the Middle Easts that is not at all comprehensive, and not (seemingly) at all a strategy, Romney didn’t disagree with Obama on anything.
The other thing I learned? Romney made money doing business with Iran, the nation he calls our No. 1 enemy. He didn’t even bother to try and deny it!
October 22, 2012 - 10:00 PM
I was one of the first to admit that Romney wiped the floor with Obama during that first debate.
The second was handily Obama’s.
This final debate made Romney look like a fool. Obama looked presidential and knew his facts. Romney just didn’t make the grade this time.
wow, what a great debate to have listened to! i feel soooo much better about our foreign policy concerning how wonderful it is, like everywhere, based on what i heard the potus blather on, on, on, and on some more,…and the wonderful things he has done for everyone, all over the world. well, yeah…NOT.
my remaining questions, which potus did not address, are:
1. iran is 4 years closer to a nuc.
2. there is more turmoil in the middle east than ever before.
3. russia is, well, russia.
4. we are weaker at home economically…which transfers to being a weaker partner abroad.
Well, that sums up my view of obuma’s world.
Mitt became a democrat tonight, You RWers must be sucking wind. How can you agree with everything the President is doing and then say you are different. What a waste if rime, Obama knows what he is dong, Mitt finally realized Obama is right.
Romney showed he has not a clue. All of a sudden Mitt is saying Obama knows what he is doing
Last I checked, a “nuc” was a pacifier.
Obama ran away with this one. Romney looked weak and hesitant. How many times did he say, “I agree with the president” only to go on and suggest that somehow, most likely by harnessing unicorn farts, Romney would somehow improve on Obama’s policies.
Obama successfully pummeled Romney for his inconstancy on, well, everything, and made clear the danger of having someone who shifts in the wind as much as Romney does.
I don’t think even Suzie could spin this as a win for Romney (though she will undoubtedly try very hard; heck, look what she tired to do, bless her heart, with the second debate).
I was pleased to hear obuma say, “the sequestration cuts to defense WILL NOT HAPPEN”.
now, I just heard a report that obama’s main man plooffee changed obama’s words from “WILL NOT”…. to “SHOULD not”. and so that’s that. by mid-night, it’ll be “might not” happen, tomorrow it’ll be “YOU LIE”! “I NEVER SAID THAT”!
Iran is ready to talk because of the pressure Obama has put on them, Frankie wankie. Rmoney, OTOH, would just start another useless war.
Kristen..
Frank is apparently a reader mostly of comics..
He has probably never seen the word Nuke
spelled out..and has likely heard it pronounced
most often as Newk-U-lar.
Our influences weigh heavily upon us.
There legions behind the Ditto trees.
…And “Russia is , well , Russia”..
damn..thats something to ponder..
The depth of that statement astounds
and has the heft of a nerf ball.
“…harnessing unicorn farts…”
I have never heard Romney’s policies described so succinctly.
Fun read about debate here:
http://tinyurl.com/8ntw2da
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October 22, 2012, 10:41 PM ET
Who Won the Presidential Debate? Notable People Weigh In On Twitter
SNIP
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409 approved comments today — so far. Of those, 71 were from Suzie, who wrote 40 between 7:47 p.m. and midnight.
Suze — get a life!
Wow. Romney really embarrassed himself. He definitely is not ready to be president. He has no grasp of even the basic geography of the middle east. We had one president who made it based on his dad’s success, we sure don’t neet another Cheney / Rove puppet in the foreign policy arena. He’s not ready to be commander in chief and we owe our military families, veterans, and active duty in harm’s way better than Romney.
The. Biggest. Blunder. Of. The. Night: Romney says Syria is “Iran’s route to the sea.”
Ooops. A potential commander-in-chief really ought to know that Iran a) doesn’t border Syria, and b) doesn’t need another country for a straight route to the sea.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/22/fact-check-irans-route-to-the-sea/
Can you say, “amateur!”
I knew you could.
(I remember a couple of folks on The RT blasting Kaine for mistakingly saying Delaware borders Virginia, though they are close. But I think the geopolitical ramifications of this mistake are a bit higher.)
obama stuttered, mumbled, and fumbled his way to another failure just like the first debate. I counted one (1) stutter by obama in the second debate. At least 40 this time around.
“obamas bin Laden” – Bob Schieffer
obama says there aren’t as many ships now as there were in the early 1900s because now we also use aircraft carriers and submarines.
Umm, uhhh, errr, obama, those are all ships too!!
Glad to help you understand that.
Dan@11:43
Desperation shows! I said before the debate that we’d get an attack of Romnesia from Mitt and Obama would take him to school. That’s exactly what happened! Romney reversed field on Afghanistan, Iran, China, Syria
and every other position he has taken. He went from being a bully who would use the military to force everybody to bow down to America (as Mike Howdyshell so glowingly touted) To being the “peace “andidate who would not get us involved in any more wars. As Obama so accurately said Romney now takes a position that he agrees with the President on all those issues but he could do them better because he would be louder about hem.
In addition Romney completely backed off on Benghazi, probably because the intelligence briefings which he now gets put him in the awkward position of knowing the truth and knowing that he has been wrong. The horses and bayonets zinger and the line about aircraft carriers ridiculed Romney amd he had no comeback. Obama destroyed him on the Iran and Israel issues. To sum up, tonight Romney’s butt got the full benefit of the President’s boot.
ROMNEY:“Syria is “Iran’s route to the sea.”
Reminds me of Ford’s debate statement: “I don’t believe the Poles consider themselves dominated by the Soviet Union.”
CLICK HERE FOR A MAP OF THE MIDDLE EAST, AND SEE IF YOU BELIEVE IRAN NEEDS A ROUTE TO THE SEA.
Looks to me like Iran has at least 10 times the amount of coastline than Syria does!
Even Suze was despairing that Romney didn’t slam Obama for Benghazi. He couldn’t because he knew the comeback that it would generate:
“Governor, you’re privy to the SAME intelligence briefings I am, so you know the truth, and you know you’re not telling it now!”
What does this prove? That Mitt has (marginally) higher standards than Suze when it comes to facts. Except on Detroit, of course.
I’m no lover of Obomba, but Retard’s comment about the President’s first trip after his 2008 election being an “apology tour” shows just how conceited he is…. Obomba wanted to show the Arabs some respect, which had been sorely lacking for a long time. Furthermore, did anyone notice how the region exploded afterwards with talk of democracy…? Can you say “Arab Spring.”
Retard actually thinks Obomba should have “talked down” to them, which reflects his profound self-righteousness towards other peoples. His arrogance is also reflected in his attitudes towards women, poor people, and the only citizens in the entire industrialized world without health care (i.e. 50,000,000 of his fellow citizens he cares so much about).
All your right wingers, Suzie, Frank et all… are a major hoot. Your guy is morphing into democrat before the eyes of the nation and I guess he’s pulling you into the middle too. At one point I thought he should just look at Obama and tell him what a swell job he was doing with his foreign policy, because he seemed mostly to agree with it.
What the president wisely didn’t say about Iran was their development of a nuclear bomb was greatly delayed by the covert cyberwar in which “someone” unleashed a devastating computer virus into their control systems. Course, ole Mitt may not know much about cybersecurity or cyberwarfare as a defense issue, apparently believing that boats in the water is just what we need. Obama does understand this, and his administration well understands both Iran’s and China’s attention to our networks. It is a huge issue, and I’m glad our President brought it up and disappointed Mitt seemed clueless about it.
When it’s all said and done, there will be a lot more said than done.
Obama lied and stretched the truth more for the victory. http://m.factcheck.org/2012/10/false-claims-in-final-debate/
Romney showed he wasn’t bush. The Debate to the president, the presidency to Romney. He showed he’s not the last republican president. Genius.
409 approved comments today — so far. Of those, 71 were from Suzie, who wrote 40 between 7:47 p.m. and midnight.
I posted running commentary during the event as you do sometimes, Dan. The reason you and the other libs sat out is you were nervous as hell and rightfully so. I’ll bet no lib in here watched the whole thing.
0bama made the first serious gaffe of the presidential debates last night. John King is the only analyst I saw who recognized it. It was when 0bama compared naval ships to bayonets, calling them obsolete. In doing so, 0bama ceded Virginia. In fact King immmediately colored Virginia pink on his map because of the remark. Said King: “You’re going to see that comment in Romney ads in Virginia starting tomorrow.”
The other mememorable part was Mitt’s devastating account of the 0bama apology tour which had the idiot absolutely SEETHING. Then he drove home the win with TWO recitations of 0bama’s failed economic numbers–craftily segued into.
0bama was rattled into telling three big ones. All debunked by Chris Wallace’s fact check. Romney did a great job running out the clock.
So that’s four wins out of four for the GOP ticket. The first one will absolutely go down in history as the most serious beatdown in debate history. In fact, because of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if Democrats called for an end to future debates altogether.
Yeah, sometimes I wanted Romney to hit the idiot harder, but he knew what he wanted to do. He knew the liberal media would try to paint him as a war monger. He totally frustrated 0bama and Schieffer by refusing to take the bait.
It was a masterful rope-a-dope by Romney who baited 0bama into a major gaffe and cruised to his third debate victory
@Marked Man #18: You missed the point. An aircraft carrier projects much more power than any other single vessel – certainly far more power than any single vessel in 1916. A nuclear submarine carrying Trident missile projects enough power to decimate entire continents.
Your rush to declare an Obama victory in this debate is a good sign for Romney. After Obama “won” the last debate, Romney gained ground in the polls to a dead even match. If Obama won this one too, Romney is liable to pull ahead. At the rate Obama’s victories are impacting voters, perhaps they can squeeze another one in before the election.
Props to Mark for at least trying here.
DanR, +1 on the “unicorn farts” line. Great stuff.
Obama needed to put this one away, and from all I’ve read thus morning, he did,,
The right wingers here only manage to prove why Romney/Ryan are lying with every breath.
1. Election not about Foreign Policy
2. Suburban Women don’t care about North African Muslim unrest
3. 95% of the people already made up their minds
4. 5% of the rest saw a non confrontational leader with great knowledge about foreign policy
5. Game, Set, Match
I know! Mitt could add a bazillion canoes to the fleet on day one of his administration. Then we’d have way way way more ships than we did in WWI and he would feel lots safer!
“I’ll bet no lib in here watched the whole thing.” No you won’t. Welcher.
Wow! Suze really is in a world of her own isn’t she? I’ve never seen a candidate look so disoriented as Mitt did last night. As Obama handed him his tail, Mitt had this look of “What can I make up next or how can I turn this topic into something I’m more comfortable with?” Dazed and confused!
I grew up with the US Navy…my dad served a career in it. I came close to serving as well, eventually hampered by a bad knee and a torn up ankle. Several of my friends have served, or are currently serving in the Navy as well. Modern ships are far, far more powerful than ships of any other era. The armament they carry is more than sufficient to destroy all but the largest of countries on their own…particularly when combined into a Carrier Strike Group (CSG), of which there are 11 (10 based in the US, 1 in Japan). Each CSG typically contains an aircraft carrier, 2 guided missile cruisers, 2 anti-aircraft ships, and 1 or 2 anti-submarine destroyers or frigates…plus, usually a fast-attack submarine that helps with escorting and scouting in advance of the CSG. But, CSG’s were primarily created for Cold War operations, where the US was tasked with what is known as ‘blue water operations’, or maintaining superiority in the open ocean, while NATO allies would patrol closer to shore. There’s been a longstanding debate over their effectiveness in modern warfare scenarios, but they’ve consistently been some of the first, and best, responders to a great number of situations and because of their flexibility of not requiring a land base to operate, have proven more effective and useful in several situations than the Air Force for providing aerial assault on land-based targets.
Quite simply put, a modern warship had firepower that exceeds several old ships from WWII, simply by virtue of technology. They, like pretty much every other bit of modern technology, are far more capable and can do a lot more with less. We need to maintain our military strength going forward, but we don’t necessarily need to add more ships to the fleet to accomplish that. The fleet we have is far more capable and flexible than it ever has been, and can conduct a wide variety of missions on a global scale with incredibly fast response times.
The Ohio class of ballistic missile and guided missile submarines alone carries about half the active US arsenal of strategic thermonuclear warheads. They can operate anywhere, at any time, and basically obliterate whatever they wanted to…without being detected until a launch…by which time, it’s too late. There are other countries with similar capability, namely the British…though the Russians have several submarines with lesser capability.
But one thing that has changed is how warfare is conducted. It’s more urban/guerilla warfare now, with less-defined enemies than when the enemy was a whole country with a uniformed military. Now, we have to deal with insurgents, terrorists, and combatants that don’t necessarily wear a uniform identifying them as such, and they often take refuge among civilians to help provide cover and concealment. That makes fighting them much more difficult. However, continued aggressive posturing by North Korea, Iran, and China are troubling, and at least call for the US to maintain our readiness to respond if any of these countries goes from saber-rattling and posturing to taking aggressive action. I seriously doubt China would take unilateral action given how they would destroy their economic viability in the process, since they depend on exports to sustain their population…but North Korea and Iran (or someone else with a few missiles and a bone to pick), primarily because of their leadership, would be more likely.
“I’ll bet no lib in here watched the whole thing.”
$10,000? What do you say? $10,000?
My husband and I went to a “debate” party last night. Some conservative republicans and some progressives…lots of tuned in voters.
There were visible groans when Romney spoke about Syria and Iran. Much like the Palin comment about seeing Russia from her window – our republican friends are frustrated at the candidate they have been handed.
No ugly comments, no name calling, no raised voices…it can be done with thinking people. When we ended the night, republican friends were disappointed and frustrated by the ever changing Romney positions. As one said, if Romney agrees with Obama on everything, why should we vote for him?
It was like another Romney blimp crashed to the ground. I felt sorry for my friends who had come in all pumped up and were so let down.
Suzie, who denies the plain meaning of the simple words “act of terror,” thinks the Republicans won all four debates, proving how completely divorced from reality some conservatives are. In fact, Romney “won” the first debate, in that he was more engaged than the president and ably pivoted from some of his more extreme positions. But that was only possible because he was willing, as he has been from the beginning of this campaign, to lie through his teeth every time he opened his mouth. “I don’t have a $5 trillion tax cut.” Yes, sir, you do.
After that debate, Obama and Biden decided it was time to call Romney and Ryan on their malarkey. Biden did a superb job of that in the vice presidential debate. His “can you believe this guy is saying this stuff” demeanor was perfect. Ryan, the supposed numbers guy, came off as clueless, and the claims about how they were going to pay for their $5 trillion tax cut were exposed as empty platitudes (unicorn farts, if you will).
Then Obama came storming back in the second debate. “That’s just not true, Governor.” And the coup de grace when Romney falsely claimed that Obama hadn’t referred to Benghazi as an act of terror for 14 days, when, in fact, he had done so the very next day, as the transcript of his Rose Garden speech clearly shows.
That brings us to last night, when Romney came across as a belligerent, ignorant blow-hard at first, then a clueless, confused novice who thinks Iran needs Syria for a path to the sea. Obama literally had Romney sweating.
Lots of people were disheartened by the first debate. But I wondered at the time if Obama was purposefully holding back. Remember, at that point, the election’s outcome was nearly a foregone conclusion, and there was talk that Romney’s backers might start shifting their funds to Senate and House races they could actually win. The first debate changed that dynamic. But if you look at the trajectory of the debates as a whole, there is absolutely no doubt that Obama came out a clear, convincing winner, with Romney’s lies and foreign policy inexperience laid bare for the entire nation to see.
I can’t remember who said that Obama tends to play chess while his opponents think they’re playing checkers, but this may be the perfect example. Obama sacrificed a rook in the first debate, which was a risky move. But there’s little doubt that he took Romney’s queen in the end, and will almost certainly secure a checkmate on Nov. 6.
Saying the level of power projected by the vessels nowadays is a reason that there are fewer ships in our Navy would ALSO suggest that the level of enemy firepower has not changed as well.
This is obama’s fatal mistake. Of course we have more firepower and better ships now… because unfortunately for Mr. obama, our enemies do not have the same technology they did in 1916.
Dan R, I would add one (compound) adjective to your description of Mitt Romney last night. It is “stone-faced. Somebody evidently taught Mitt in debate prep the perfect facial expression to strike whenever Obama was talking. He looked like he was posing for Mount Rushmore or something. And you saw it last night more than in the other debates by virtue of the sit-down format and the way the cameras were set up.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but that chin-up, half-smile, closed-lips expression said something to me. I’ll be back on here a little later to expound on exactly what it said. Gotta run right now.
From Iran’s oil fields, the most direct route to the Mediterranean Sea is cutting through a small section in Northern Iraq and then through Syria.
“Running commentary” = “diarrhea of the keyboard”
From Factcheck.org:
•President Obama erred when he accused Mitt Romney of saying during the 2008 campaign that “we should ask Pakistan for permission” before going into that country to kill or capture terrorists. What Romney said was that he’d “keep our options quiet.”
•Obama wrongly accused Romney of not telling the truth when Romney said “you and I agreed” some U.S. troops should be left in Iraq. In fact, the president tried and failed to negotiate an agreement to keep 3,000 to 4,000 support troops there; Romney said he would have left 10,000 to 30,000.
•Obama said unemployment among military veterans is lower than for the general population. That’s true for veterans generally but not for veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
•Obama claimed the record would back him up when he accused Romney of opposing any federal “help” or “assistance” for troubled automakers. In fact, the record shows Romney supported federal loan guarantees.
•Romney claimed terrorism wasn’t mentioned in any presidential debate in 2000. Actually, Al Gore made one brief mention.
And you think Romney is the one NOT telling the truth here???
From Iran’s oil fields, the most direct route to the Mediterranean Sea is cutting through a small section in Northern Iraq and then through Syria.
Comment by Marked Man — October 23, 2012 @ 9:48 am
That would explain why the Iranians consistently threaten the U.S. Navy ships in and around the Straits of Hormuz.
You forgot a few, Mark (purely accidentally, I assume):
Romney was wrong when he repeated a claim that our “Navy is smaller now than any time since 1917.” Actually, there are slightly more ships active now than at the low point under President George W. Bush.
Romney repeated his claim that the president undertook “an apology tour … criticizing America” after Obama became president. Obama called that “probably the biggest whopper that’s been told” during the entire campaign. And in fact, our own analysis, and that of other fact-checkers, found no “apology” in the president’s speeches.
Romney claimed credit for top scores by Massachusetts grade-schoolers while he was governor. But they tested at the top, or near it, before Romney took office.
Romney said the federal debt to “other people” is $16 trillion, which isn’t correct. The debt owed to the public is $11 trillion, and the figure he gave includes money the government owes to itself.
“From Iran’s oil fields, the most direct route to the Mediterranean Sea is cutting through a small section in Northern Iraq and then through Syria.”
Yeah, but that’s not what Romney said.
And, btw, from Florida, the most direct route to the Pacific is across Mexico. But if Floridians want to get to the sea, there are far easier options.
OK, so Romney sweeps the debates. The only mystery remaining is what dirty trick the Democrats will try in desperation. We know they won’t hesitate to lie. They’ll probably trot out somebody with a phony story on the last weekend who “saw” or “knows” Romney did something, then hope it sticks. That’s what they did with Herman Cain. After he dropped out, those women all vanished. Shazam!
OK, so Romney sweeps the debates. The only mystery remaining is what dirty trick the Democrats will try in desperation. We know they won’t hesitate to lie. They’ll probably trot out somebody with a phony story on the last weekend who “saw” or “knows” Romney did something, then hope it sticks. That’s what they did with Herman Cain. After he dropped out, those women all vanished. Shazam!
Comment by Suzie — October 23, 2012 @ 11:08 am
SuzieQ has built in her denial platform. When Romney loses it will be because of some “dirty trick” pulled by the Democrats between now and November 6. Hope you are comfortble in your little cocoon SuzieQ!
“The only mystery remaining is what dirty trick the Democrats will try in desperation. We know they won’t hesitate to lie. They’ll probably trot out somebody with a phony story on the last weekend who “saw” or “knows” Romney did something, then hope it sticks. That’s what they did with Herman Cain.”
The Dems did nothing to Cain. Cain got bounced out of the GOP primary process. The longer he stayed in, the better off the Dems were. It is OBVIOUS as hell they didn’t want him out, but that has never stopped you form lying before.
I wonder if Suzie has a goatee, like those Star Trek characters from the mirror universe.
A mirror universe, after all, is the only place where Romney “swept the debates.”
The half-smile, half-smirk on Mittens face last night, (vs. the rabid look he had in the first 2 debates), will go down in history. It was as if he smelled a fart on the bus, but wasn’t sure who did it. Either way, it was weird, condescending and creepy at best.
The only way the TP/R will lose is if we show up, but keep dreaming that it is the Dems trying to steal an election.
Actually the “only mystery remaining” is when Suzie will ever tell the truth. No election will change that impossibility.
This debate, like everything else in politics, will be viewed and interpreted by whatever party you belong to. I’m a Democrat and believe Obama lost the first and won the second two (and that Biden won his debate). Republicans see it differently. But, honestly, there’s no use arguing. I’m not going to change a Republican’s mind any more than they are going to change mine.
41
By comparison, Obama’s angry sneers and stares were stately. LOL.
Sorry, Ron, you are taking the long way around to the Med.
BTW, you never answered my question about the Exodus. Care to?
And….the excuses are starting already.
I was hitting on the most important un-truths as listed by Factcheck.org, Dan R.
I thought North Carolina was full of delusional republicans until I moved here. Sometimes I think they are trolls, but then I hear them out in town and see all of the Romney signs… one of us is nuts!
Um, no you weren’t, Mark.
Suzie the delusional:
“It was a masterful rope-a-dope by Romney who baited 0bama into a major gaffe and cruised to his third debate victory”
What debate were you watching? Obama go this “act” together for the third debate and beat Romney. This of course assumes we are only grading style as that is ALL that matters in debates. Romney looked and sounded nervous. Obama was cool. The substance didn’t matter…. nor does it ever.
#48 As I said, suzie just keeps telling the same lies over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over…
Well… isn’t this special?
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50133707n
Actually, the President did not “err” when he alluded to Romney saying: “we should ask Pakistan for permission”. It is just a semantics game to say that is not what Romney meant.
When candidate Obama said: “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will”.
Romney’s response was: “I do not concur in the words of Barack Obama in a plan to enter an ally of ours… I don’t think those kinds of comments help in this effort to draw more friends to our effort,”
…Romney, the former Massachusetts governor who is one of the Republican front-runners, said U.S. troops “shouldn’t be sent all over the world.” He called Obama’s comments “ill-timed” and “ill-considered.”
“There is a war being waged by terrorists of different types and nature across the world,” Romney said. “We want, as a civilized world, to participate with other nations in this civilized effort to help those nations reject the extreme with them.”
http://in.reuters.com/article/2007/08/04/idINIndia-28811520070804
President Obama did not have quote precisely right, but he had the sentiment down pat.
Ahhh more kind words from the “no effort,” obamaphone, entitlement scum.
Who are the real racists? Hmmmmm
http://www.infowars.com/obama-supporters-continue-threats-to-riot-assassinate-romney/
As you misunderstood, Dan R., I said I included the most important ones.
And no, obama was not cool and collected at all. He was back to the same stumbling and mumbling that has trademarked his presidency. He avoided almost totally in the second debate, but his stammering and bumbling was on full display last night.
#42 Oh, so all you gotta do is get through that small section of Iraq, eh?
Pretzel twistin’ time.
I’m not sure if that will fly, Walker. You know how the libs will tell us how CBS is such a right-wing news program again.
Oops!!
#44 “Obama said unemployment among military veterans is lower than for the general population. That’s true for veterans generally but not for veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.”
IOW, Obama told the truth. Thanks, MMM.
And who was it who was pushing for some troops to stay in Iraq?
“Some Troops Should Stay in Iraq, Speaker Says”
““I think Iraq is critical to our immediate and long-term national security interests,” said Mr. Boehner, who also visited Pakistan and Afghanistan over the spring Congressional recess. He added that too much had been invested “to simply just walk away.”
“I think a small residual force should remain and the sooner the administration engages the Iraqi government, I think the better off we are going to be,” he said.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/us/politics/04boehner.html?_r=0
OK, time for more on Romney’s chin-up, stone-faced, vacant-eyed half smile as the president learned him some things about foreign policy Monday night:
For a good while in my youth I lived in a town called Mountain Lakes, NJ. It was a wealthy place, like Grosse Pointe, Mich., but much smaller. (There was tiny “poor” section of quite nice middle homes they quaintly called “the village” where my family lived.) Mountain Lakes had about 3,000 residents, 7 lakes, and it was a 30-minute or so train ride into Manhattan. Most of my schoolmates parents worked there, in law firms or on Wall Street. Some of them lived in mansions. One kid had 16 bathrooms in his house, and a butler.
I witnessed that same expression on the faces of many of my classmates, whenever a teacher dressed them down in school for doing something wrong, or telling a fib. Chin up, stone-faced, half smirk, vacant eyes. It was an expression that reeks of entitlement, of semi-boredom, and of the thought “I can’t believe this bozo TEACHER is talking to me like this. How dare some middle-class wage slob lecture ME? Don’t they know I don’t care a whit what they think? Why do I have to put up with this?”
That’s what I believe Romney was thinking last night, with that impassive mask, in between denying he ever wrote an essay titled, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” or claiming that Syria was Iran’s route to the sea,” while he ignored the fact that Iran has many many more miles of coastline than Syria. He could not believe that Obama was lecturing him. Mitt believed he was better than that; that he shouldn’t have to put up with that.
Obama did stumble a bit in getting his words out last night. But the big difference between the first debate and last night — and what won the debate for him — is that he didn’t let Mitt’s distortions, flip-flops and untruths go unchallenged. He hit them head on with him every time. And Mitt couldn’t get away from those challenges.
Romney talked smoother. But so do used-car salesmen.
Lastly, “the record” does back Obama up for accusing “Romney of opposing any federal “help” or “assistance” for troubled automakers”. Yes, the record shows Romney suggested “federal loan guarantees” after their managed bankruptcy.
However: “many independent analysts have concluded that taking the approach recommended by Romney would not have worked in 2008, simply because the credit markets were so frozen that a bankruptcy was not a viable option at the time.
Here’s how the bipartisan Congressional Oversight Panel, in a unanimous finding, framed the issue in a January 2011 report: “The circumstances in the global credit markets in November and December 2008 were unlike any the financial markets had seen in decades. U.S. domestic credit markets were frozen in the wake of the Lehman bankruptcy, and international sources of funding were extremely limited.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/22/fact-check-the-auto-industry-bailout/
Romney remains a dishonest weather-vane and Fact-Check is OBVIOUSLY weighting their “checks” to help him!
“Salemite says:
The half-smile, half-smirk on Mittens face last night, (vs. the rabid look he had in the first 2 debates), will go down in history. It was as if he smelled a fart on the bus, but wasn’t sure who did it. Either way, it was weird, condescending and creepy at best.
Posted on October 23rd, 2012″
I agree, but I think he looked more like HE was the one who farted and was daring anyone to call him out on it.
My favorite line of the night, well delivered too: “…And the 1980′s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back — because the Cold War has been over for 20 years”
BAZINGA!
At best he told a half-truth, gdad, (even without the teleprompter), which is a bonafide accomplishment in itself. He probably meant veterans from the most recent wars and was still incorrect however.
Thanks gdad for calling obama a half-liar.
“all you gotta do is get through that small section of Iraq, eh?” – gdad
Yes, it is called hard-work or manual labor, gdad. Being an ex-newspaper reporter, I understand that concept may be ‘foreign’ policy to you.
Here…
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389539_213247155474900_310664181_n.jpg
Adapted from a Facebook meme:
Last night’s debate was brought to you by the letter ‘B’, as in Big Bird, binders, and bayonets, and the number ’47′.
“Romney’s chin-up, stone-faced, vacant-eyed half smile”
In contrast to Obama’s chin down, stone-faced, death stare complete with unbearable to watch rapid blinking lying eyes? Hope he doesn’t play poker. He has quite the tell.
This should have accompanied the factcheck.org page:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-NlR54PqLw
I should add, those were the expressions I see down here in Virginia when I when I tell the door-to-door Obama campaigners that I hated 8 years of Bush and there isn’t any way in hell if I’d ever vote to give anyone 8 years again.
It’s an expression that reeks of confusion, fluster and what they know inside is a complete story built upon lies, mistruths and denial being force fed by their handlers.
Re: Comment by Marked Man — October 23, 2012 @ 12:26 am
Insignificant point, but don’t tell a submariner that a sub is a “ship.” A submarineis always called a “boat.”
see: http://www.perch-base.org/glossary.htm
42.From Iran’s oil fields, the most direct route to the Mediterranean Sea is cutting through a small section in Northern Iraq and then through Syria.
Comment by Marked Man
From Canada’s shale oil fields, the most direct route to ship to overseas markets is a pipeline west to the port of Vancouver, not a pipeline across the middle of the U.S.
“It was a masterful rope-a-dope by Romney who baited 0bama into a major gaffe and cruised to his third debate victory”
Girl is again honored. My take was the same as the great Rush’s hours later. He echoed that Romney intentionally didn’t take the bait. Rush even used the term “rope-a-dope”. I’m telling you, I’m getting really good at calling these things.
But Warren, tapping off that pipeline along the way will allow for more North American energy to be used here and to create thousands of jobs.
Re: Comment by Other John — October 23, 2012 @ 9:14 am
The Ohio class of ballistic missile and guided missile submarines alone carries about half the active US arsenal of strategic thermonuclear warheads. They can operate anywhere, at any time, and basically obliterate whatever they wanted to…without being detected until a launch…by which time, it’s too late. There are other countries with similar capability, namely the British…though the Russians have several submarines with lesser capability.
————–
I have a good friend that is a retired COB and know a few others who were/are Bommers. To a man they defined the world as boats and targets — their way of saying that other than other subs there is nothing they can’t (as you put it) obliterate.
Ballistic and guided missile submarines alone make any comparison to WWI or WWII naval ships / power delusional.
Then as you say, add in the CSGs’ power and any number comparison are doubly delusional.
Also, remember that WWII aircraft range made them far more restricted as did their more limited payload.
Do other countries have more potent tools? Sure. But Willard was not comparing us to them. Willard was comparing the current US forces to earlier US forces. “Our Navy is smaller now than at any time since 1917.” — Romney
Pure apples-and-oranges. And wrong, even then.
The current level of ships, 285 in fiscal 2011, is actually not even the lowest since 1916. The historical list shows that the lowest ship force was reached during the Bush administration, when the number of ships fell to 278 in 2007.
MMM, that pipeline would carry crude, and unless you’re like a poor Nigerian willing to risk fatal burns to steal from it it would only go straight to refineries for eventual export.
Then again, your posts suggest that you’re a crude dude.
Re: my last. Bad proofing.
“Do other countries have more potent tools?” should have been / should be read as, “Do other countries have more potent tools [, than they did in WWI or WWII]?” — and not read as “Do other countries have more potent tools [than we do now]?”
Oh, silly me, I thought you could have a refinery and make products for use here in North America.
MMM, some reading material for you:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/22/news/economy/keystone-pipeline/index.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/18/six-reasons-keystone-xl-was-bad-deal-all-along/
The link below gives insight into our future navy vessels.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-08/ocean-power
“U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world’s biggest producer” (And it’s happening during the OBAMA administration; deny that, reality deniers!!)
http://www.ydr.com/nation-world/ci_21836869/us-oil-production-near-top-world
I was disappointed that romney was not more aggressive (particularly on obama’s inept handling (and lies) of the murders in Libya); even though it was probably a good strategic move.
Obama looked like a very angry person instead of a leader…..
Then they both put me to sleep…
Thanks to both of them for the extra 2 hours sleep I was not expecting…
Today I heard a FOX analysts echo my analysis, calling 0bama’s bayonet comment a “gaffe”. John King didn’t call it that, but conceded it was a mistake.
I’m telling you Girl could easily be a talking head.
“U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world’s biggest producer” (And it’s happening during the OBAMA administration; deny that, reality deniers!!)”
Warren, this is why Romney slammed Obama on oil and gas production. Romney KNOWS it’s at an all-time high. That’s what they do. They find a strength, and they hammer you for it. That’s their lying, cynical game.
If the Democrats played that game, Obama would have been accusing Romney of being a whoremonger. But the Democrats care much more about the truth than the 2012 GOP.
I’m telling you Girl could easily be a talking head.
Comment by Suzie — October 23, 2012 @ 7:48 pm
I’d prefer you on FAUX News SuzieQ. That way I wouldn’t have to listen to or read your constant drivel.
I’d prefer you on FAUX News SuzieQ. That way I wouldn’t have to listen to or read your constant drivel.
Why thank you, Liberal Ron. I’m flatted you think I should have a spot on the TOP cable network.
“U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world’s biggest producer” (And it’s happening during the OBAMA administration; deny that, reality deniers!!)”
On private land. Not public. Private. 0bummer has cut production on public lands. He tried to lie about it, but Mitt called him on it. Mitt was backed up by the fact checkers as he has been most of the time.
dobbs, your first link is to a opinion columnist piece in which the opinionist states “Rising gas prices aren’t so bad”. I stopped reading that one right there.
The second one, albeit from Fox News, is from a grassroots opinionist to which Fox threw a bone in order to… ahem… seem more fair and balanced.
I stopped reading that one when the grassroots opinionist spelled ‘overseas’ as ‘OVERSEES’.
Snooz: Oil production on public land is down THIS YEAR. From the Bush years, it’s way up.
And, really, the Fact Checkers usually call things on Romney’s side? Last I looked, his percentage of Pants On Fire and Four Pinnochios ratings were more than double Obama’s and his percentage of True or Mostly True ratings were about a quarter.
But, since you lie about everything else, why wouldn’t you lie about fact-checkers?
Suzie: “Today I heard a FOX analysts echo my analysis, calling 0bama’s bayonet comment a “gaffe”. John King didn’t call it that, but conceded it was a mistake.”
You would make a perfect Fox analyst, Suzie.
The funny thing is you’ll take that as a compliment.
“You would make a perfect Fox analyst, Suzie.”
Maybe, if by that you mean to combine the intellectual gravitas of Sarah Palin, the tact of Ann Coulter, the moral authority of Dick Morris, the experience in politics of Brian Kilmeade, the ego of Bill O’Reilly, the deep resonant voice of Sean Hannity, the charisma of Brit Hume, the sex appeal of Glen Beck, the honesty of Roger Ailes, and the commitment to the public good of Rupert Murdoch, with a husband like Michelle Bachmann’s and an upper lip like Geraldo Rivera’s.
In that case, yes.
#78 “Yes, it is called hard-work or manual labor, gdad.”
Or maybe a war? Face it, MMM, most of your stuff is just plain stupid.
Warren — that’s EXACTLY what I meant.
Oh my what harsh words, gdad. You sound like the truth hurt a little bit on this thread.
MMM, missing or ignoring, the point. Again. Totally my mistake, I should have known better than to try.
dobbs, your point was that you wanted to share what you considered to be ‘facts’ with me.
My point was that your ‘facts’ were opinionated pieces written by ‘writers’ who cannot spell and must have mommy and daddy paying for their gas every day.
Both types of people that I need not gather my ‘facts’ from.