A Ohioan who’s for Obama because of disgust with the GOP
Wikimedia Commons | Text by Dan
Note from Dan: The missive below is from Jason, an Ohioan and semi-regular on this blog. He had planned not to vote in the presidential election, until he got so disgusted by GOP voter-suppression efforts in the Buckeye state that he decided instead to vote for President Obama. He’s married, he and his wife have one child, and he’s an indefatigable proponent of concealed carry. More on the potential voting and Election Day issues in Ohio here, here and here.
We have a Republican administration that, with no evidence of voter fraud, has been fighting like Hell to make it harder for Democrats to vote. They targeted areas that are Democratic strongholds:
“In response to the 2008 election results, Ohio Republicans drastically curtailed the early voting period in 2012 from 35 to 11 days, with no voting on the Sunday before the election, when African-American churches historically rally their congregants to go to the polls. (Ohio was one of five states to cut back on early voting since 2010.)
“Voting rights activists subsequently gathered enough signatures to block the new voting restrictions and force a referendum on Election Day. In reaction, Ohio Republicans repealed their own bill in the state legislature, but kept a ban on early voting three days before Election Day (a period when 93,000 Ohioans voted in 2008), adding an exception for active-duty members of the military, who tend to lean Republican.”
It could not be more simply put than, “We lose when more people vote. Let’s make less people vote.” Remember, they weren’t attempting to cut illegitimate voting.
More recently, when Democrats tried to add more early voting hours, Republicans on the election boards in those counties blocked them. Election boards are evenly split between Dems and Republicans, three of each. (Republican) Secretary of State John Husted breaks all ties.
The plan was so transparent in its malice that it was breathtaking. And obviously this isn’t unique to Ohio.
So take that, throw in a congressman who thinks that women’s bodies have rapist-sperm ejection seats (and he’s on the Science, Space, and Technology), another who thinks it’s god’s will that women be impregnated by rapists (which by default means that it is god’s will that they be raped in the first place), and on and on, and I’m going to vote to re-elect a man with whom I have numerous and immense problems.
Great job Republicans, you managed to be crazy enough and evil enough that you pushed a no-vote in a critical swing state into Obama’s column.
And it’s unlikely that I’m the only one.
November 6, 2012 - 8:57 AM
I was planning on voting third party until a few weeks ago. I’m nowhere near happy with President Obama on a great number of issues, but the alternative is so completely unpalatable that I cannot in good conscience vote for a third party more closely aligned with my ideology when I can use my vote to help keep the current crop of Republicans from winning. That party has gone so far over a cliff from when I spent years volunteering for them and helping to elect them that it’s not funny. It’s sad, and scary, to think of how vastly different they are from the party I grew up supporting.
Other than a weak “What’s so ahrd about getting an ID” it’s interesting how right-wingers on this blog and elsewhere don’t even try to justify their voter suppression. They know it’s necessary to keep voters away if they want to win.
50-minute wait this morning at our Raleigh Court precinct. I’ll go this afternoon.
You don’t have to love Obama to recognize what a disaster the GOP is these days.
Bull feathers,anybody that belives all that,please stand on your head and pitch me a quarter.
Jason, I’m with you buddy!! I too am a Republican that is so thoroughly disgusted with the Party that I switched. That and the fact that Obama has done a good job.
I have already voted and want to share a “here’s your sign” moment. I don’t know if this is standard procedure all over Virginia, but it is in Pulaski. After presenting my new Governor ultrasound issued voter id card, the lady asked my name and address. Really? Does she think it will be different than the one on the card I just handed her? Maybe they think if I was trying to vote fraudulently, I would be too dumb to memorize the info on the id card? Please feel free to share your opinions.
Intrade now has Romney’s chances of winning at 28.3%
http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/?eventId=84326
The fat lady is off stage left warming up…
what a whiny little girl. He all but said that Obama wasn’t a good candidate but he will vote for him anyway. That’s right. Obama is a lousy president and he wasn’t going to vote for him. But now he will vote for him because of the lack of early voting.
Of course…that must be it. Look around, chief. Virginia votes on one day. Kinda hard to pull that “voter suppression” story when you can vote earlier than us.
The Democrat voter fraud continues
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/06/gop-inspectors-reportedly-kicked-out-of-multiple-philadelphia-polling-places/
Alfred, I had to recite my name and address too. My guess is that it’s some obscure and outdated voting law here.
#6 The worker at my precinct has ALWAYS asked for my address. No big deal to me.
WTH is “twitchy.com”.
Adults realize that deciding which candidate to vote for isn’t about getting your own personal issue card punched to your satisfaction.
#4 Charlie, we know that OJ was definitely not planning on voting for Obama originally. So explain why you would think what Jason is saying is bull.
Notice, Henry,
What Jason DIDN’T say: He DIDN’T say Romney was a good candidate. I think we’re looking at a classic case of a voter who chose the lesser of two evils — who would not have voted at all except he was so angered at GOP voter suppression efforts that he voted against the GOP.
#8 Aw, isn’t that sweet of Henry, trying to insult a person by calling them female. Typical Freeper.
Took me about an hour from when I got my little slip of paper to when I hit the VOTE button. This was at Oakland School, Williamson Road #1. The lines looked to be a little shorter when I left than when I got there, but not much. Made me late for work, which fortunately is experiencing a slow day.
So-called “True the Vote” volunteers barred from observing elections in Franklin County, Ohio following allegations of forgery and election-tampering.
Romney up 53.6% in Oh with 1.2M ballots cast http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121106/NEWS010601/311060015
OJ took the words right out of my mouth, or fingers in this case.
Really hope that in my lifetime I get to see something other than a two party system. Because There are parts of both parties I don’t like, but there are parts of the Republican party that I can’t in good conscience vote for, even if their platform met 99% of the other conditions.
I’m being cautiously optimistic today that Obama will win and I just think this election may very well prove that the majority of the American (voting) population is not as stupid and uninformed as politicians would like to believe. And I further hope that the republican party takes the next four years and kicks out the Tea Party influence and the religious right too…and works to make itself the party that folks like Jason and OJ used to support. And lastly, I would like to see the next four years start to give rise to truly viable 3rd and 4th party options that are moderate in nature and really represent a compromise between the two parties we are stuck with currently.
I’d note that Henry’s link is dated Nov. 6 and timed at 2:03 a.m. It’s quite odd — were the polls even open then?
Dan, Henry’s link has been removed now.
The Ohio Republican efforts at voter suppression continue unabated. I hope the Judge in this case puts the Ohio Secretary of State in jail for this.
http://billmoyers.com/2012/11/06/ohio-provisional-ballot-order-could-delay-election-results/
Ohio has early voting, despite the Republican Secretary of State’s best efforts. Still, those votes shouldn’t have been counted yet.
Wow Henry, your little piece of misinformation about Ohio is now “removed”. Wonder why.
Miriam:
“And lastly, I would like to see the next four years start to give rise to truly viable 3rd and 4th party options that are moderate in nature and really represent a compromise between the two parties we are stuck with currently.”
But,again, why does a 3rd or 4th party have to be moderate? I’m not moderate on much of anything; instead, I’m at odds with one party on some things and the other party on others. Libertarians are perhaps the least moderate of the “three”, if you will. Moderation isn’t the solution to everything and you are showing the same linear thinking that Suzie shows when you say this.
Henry’s link has also already been removed, and on cincinnati.com’s website, there’s an alternate article that says early votes have not been counted yet in Ohio.
fail.
Dan@20
The link which Henry so optimistically provided seems to have no target now. Apparently there must have been something wrong with it.
I’m with you Miriam. A strong two party system works best though. To govern is kinda like cooking. Too many cooks in the kitchen makes for a poor meal. I just hope the GOP regains control of its party and kicks the TP out. As a 3rd party option I bet the TP would be gone in 2 election cycles. We would be left with a left of center Democratic party and a center right GOP.
As it should be.
“twitchy.com” ranks right up there with my personal favorite, “weaselzippers”
#19 Me too, Miriam.
I, like Jason, am not happy with the GOP, but in choosing the lesser of the two poor choices, I voted for Romney. I would much rather have voted for Gary Johnson or even Virgil Goode, but Romney is the only one with any chance of getting Obama out.
Think what you want of Goode, he wouldn’t make garbage picks to serve on the Supreme Court for decades to come. Unfortunately, I suspect VERY few voters are weighing this when they cast their ballots.
Early voting extremely heavy at new Brambleton precinct. Slowed a bit after 9. Early lines out the door into the parking lot. Parking there and traffic patterns are a mess and will likely create jams later today.
No where near as convenient as the old headquarters library was.
lets see, 27 killed in iraq today, osama is dead, al qaeda is on their heals, 4 dead in libya attack, despair, agony and misery in the northeast and obama is in his corrupt city of chicago on the basketball court today. that’s presidential. and gdad, i see the black panthers are back in philly at the same polling precinct this morning. are they there collecting for the hurricane relief fund. oh i forgot, you corrected me yesterday. they are the new panthers the old group doesn’t exist.
@25 “Moderation isn’t the solution to everything and you are showing the same linear thinking that Suzie shows when you say this.” Comment by John Wilburn
John Wilburn, the way you describe yourself, you are more like Suzie than Miriam will ever be. You are just as narrow minded in your opinions as Suzie is. I think what Miriam is saying is that moderation means you can bend a little when necessary.
I was leaning toward Gary Johnson for a good while, I’ve voted Libertarian before in Presidential elections and for other offices when they’ve had candidates. They’re not perfect either, but they do much better on personal liberty and freedom than the Republicans do nowadays, which is part of why I began supporting the LP over the GOP in the early 2000′s. A few of my views still align with the GOP, but not many. A good number are closer to the LP, and some are aligned with the Democrats. But both D and R have significant issues of which give me extreme reason to pause on fully supporting either. Instead, it comes down to trying to find the least worse candidate, and who I think might screw things up less…because no one ever really has the drive or intention of actually fixing things.
I have to acknowledge that on several fronts, the President has done a good job of leading, even when it was unpopular to do so (healthcare, credit card reform, economy, auto bailout, to name a couple), and we’re in better shape overall today than we were at this time in 2008. He also has several areas where he has failed to lead (and in some cases been stonewalled), and they’re on issues that no one, from either party, has had the stones to address beyond candidacy platitudes (social security/medicare solvency, immigration reform, debt/deficit, to name a couple).
Going through each candidate’s platforms, I just don’t see anything that Romney is pushing that either has a chance of realistically passing, or that has enough meat behind it to make any kind of fiscal sense because the details are missing, probably on purpose. Like with taxes. Yeah, he plans to cut the rate, but what about deductions? What if Federal spending is cut? State and local government’s will then pick up the slack by having no choice but to raise their taxes as a result…meaning that while Romney can walk around claiming he’ll cut tax rates, it will result in a next tax increase (or close to break-even) for tax payers. Yeah, technically, he’ll be correct in ‘not raising taxes’ but it’s a lie by omission and deception, and I’m not buying. And unfortunately, no third party stands a chance right now with the Citizens United ruling and the flood of money pumped into the campaigns…as if they didn’t have a hard enough time to begin with.
A third or fourth party option only in national elections is virtually useless. The moderates and alternatives need to build from the ground up and get into Congress! When you only have the fire breathers we have now, this is what you get. Honest people know President Obama is no radical, not even really very liberal and yet this caustic Congress has made these four years much harder than they had to be. ANYONE voting to reward their behavior by voting for Romney, has lost their own perspective IMO. They do not deserve to have their “#1 priority” achieved!
Covington using paper ballots…?
Im assuming it isnt to support the
paper industry.
“I suspect VERY few voters are weighing this when they cast their ballots.”
I would bet every woman who votes for Obama today has thought about the type of SCOTUS Romney would pick.
I’m not a woman and I think it’s one of THE most important reasons to vote Democrat. The next president will most likely have the replace at least Ginsberg. 1 more conservative would result in a disastrous court.
Alfred:
“John Wilburn, the way you describe yourself, you are more like Suzie than Miriam will ever be. You are just as narrow minded in your opinions as Suzie is.”
I feel that the root of your statement is in more in dislike for me than anything tangible. Simply having strong convictions doesn’t make one narrow-minded. I’m referring to at least a two-axis political scale, a concept that many here don’t see. There is left and right, but authoritarian and libertarian too. One can lean more toward or away from personal liberty within nearly the same spectrum of left and right.
If Suzie’s voting prediction track record holds, Obama will be reelected. During the nomination process, she predicted every GOP candidate but Romney would secure the nomination.
@34 Thanks Alfred. John W., you put my name in the same sentence as Suzie’s – them’s are fighting words! Furthermore, I disagree with you entirely. I believe both parties have grown too extreme to be honest. I actually do believe that “slow and steady wins the race”. I do believe in moderation and compromise. As others have said here: I like certain things the republicans have historically stood for and some things that the democrats have stood for. Where is the party that stands in the middle and combines the best ideas of both? That’s more what I mean when I use the term “moderate” which is probably semantically incorrect. What I want is the best of both worlds, my cake and eat it too. You know, I want everything.
@38 Cold n P is darned right. How any woman would vote republican at this point in time is just entirely beyond me. I consider is misogynistic AT BEST and at worst it would be a level of self-loathing and bowing down to men that is abhorent. OF COURSE it’s about the SCOTUS. Doh! There. Could I have been any more strongly spoken? Get at me.
Miram, the Democrats have not gotten more extreme. The entire political spectrum has shifted to the right, not just the GOP. That has left Obama and the most successfully Dems as MODERATES, not liberals. Obama has been just slightly more liberal than Clinton, a moderate who leaned just a wee bit to the right.
@43 I’m gonna mull that over Dan.
Miriam:
“I actually do believe that “slow and steady wins the race”. I do believe in moderation and compromise. ”
Believe it or not, so do I! You ought to see just how much compromising is done to successfully get any pro-gun legislation though. There is a significant amount of compromise in VCDL’s upcoming legislative agenda. Compromise is all a matter of perspective anyway.
Miriam:
“You know, I want everything.”
Yes, you’re a woman. You get a free drink from a guy who makes no play to sleep with you and still have a beef with him. LOL.
.
@39 “I feel that the root of your statement is in more in dislike for me than anything tangible.”–Comment by John Wilburn
John, does your comparing Miriam to Suzie mean you dislike her? You assume I dislike you because of my statement comparing you to Suzie. Maybe my use of narrow minded was not the best choice of words.
Miriam seems to be a very agreeable person and you were comparing her to one of the most vitriolic, narrow minded, people on this blog.
A Roanoker named Phil Norman posted this on Facebook this morning. He says it all very well!
“I voted.
I voted for the millions who will now have access to affordable healthcare. Being sick is punishment enough without going broke.
I voted for the health and choices of my mother, wife, and daughter.
I voted for the ending of the Iraq war. (though we can still do better about Afghanistan, Guantanamo, and the drones)
I voted for my gay friends, who deserve the same chance at happiness and love that I do.
I voted for the auto industry and all those jobs we still have in this country.
I voted for the social programs that help to provide for the least-of-these.
I voted for the reasonable idea that ending wars and ending tax breaks for the wealthy is a better way to sane fiscal policy than ending programs that help the sick and the poor.
I voted for the America of the future where our differences make us stronger and the dream where everyone has an opportunity, not the America of the past where our differences are belittled, repressed, and something to fear.
I don’t believe that Obama is a perfect candidate. I think the Military-Industrial complex and the very-rich win either way today and that the core problems in our country will not be solved until there is a larger change where third parties, not just money, have a viable voice in our country’s politics. But I live in a swing state, and I voted for what I believe to be the better of two alternatives.
Go vote, you guys. It matters.”
And yes, I got his permission to post it here because I think it deserves a big audience.
#33 As I said, stevie, looks like there was one guy at one place, not armed with anything. And turns out he’s an AUTHORIZED poll watcher. If the right wing can put its thugs out to challenge any person of color simply because they’re not white, I reckon a an authorized poll watcher who’s in the NBP can hang out. Why is that so threatening to you, stevie?
John Wilburn @ #25, moderation isn’t the solution to everything, but it is a key ingredient in formulating solutions that work across partisan divides. It is a key ingredient in formulating solutions that work for the majority of the electorate. Neither party has shown the inclination to compromise in recent years, but the Democrats and President Obama come much closer. I share Miriam’s hope that we will return to moderate times.
You are correct, however, that moderation is not appropriate in every situation. One such situation occured during this election cyle. President Obama was spot on, in my opinion, when he abandoned efforts late last year to strike a compromise with Republicans on the budget. He realized they were not interested in compromise, he said as much, and clearly laid out the principles that he would not abandon. President Obama has owned this decision used it as a part of his campaign. In response, Republicans have acted as if they were the Darlings of the Bipartisanship Ball, and I think that this unwillingness to accept responsibility will ultimately see President Obama re-elected.
As Kristen @ #11 so aptly said, “Adults realize that deciding which candidate to vote for isn’t about getting your own personal issue card punched to your satisfaction.”
#17 Wow, Henry, great link. Did you get that from FR?
I think Democrats have gotten more inclusive (which I think is a good thing) not more extreme. We have compromised. Obamacare IS a compromise FGS! It is not the Dems that have been the problem, certainly not since Clinton. And IMO, not before that either. What have we proposed or worked for that could be called “extreme”? What have we fought that could be called “extreme”?
Don’t take me wrong, there are left wing loons aplenty, but they do not run our party, they are not on any ballots under our banner (that I can think of) and they are not the problem in Congress.
What we need, more than anything is the kind of honesty that tells us the truth we need to hear and the sacrifice we need to make without fear of losing the election if they do. The problem IMO, is us not the candidates.
It’s exciting to be a Virginian today. We are part of the cutting edge of this country that is repudiating the “new look” GOP, which has been hijacked by extreme elements that do not represent the vast majority of Americans.
As an affluent, educated person, despite the favorable tax status that I would undoubtedly enjoy under Romney, my vote today is a vote against the GOP that increasingly does not bother to try to separate the church from the state.
@33- Steve, plenty of shenanigans going on in Philly, and of course, all favoring the democrats. Funny thing is- most comments here will never acknowledge the corruption within the democratic party. I grabbed an official this morning and asked why people passing out the democratic sample ballot tell people that they “need to vote for the people with the black dot beside their name.” He said it is perfectly legal. I responded by asking if people who are voting for his candidate are really that dumb. He said that the ballot was confusing. Can they not read and make a choice for themselves? Got to love the fact that the main segment of the populace that supports Obama don’t know how to vote for themselves. It was actually mentioned on NPR about how diverse the democratic party is- you have some who can’t read, vote in their pajamas, and then go back home to watch TV and eat their food paid for by food stamps; on the other hand, you have people like Dan, Sandi, Dave, etc, seemingly intelligent, but walking in lockstep. Another funny thing I’ve been reading today is how some Obama supporters spout of about how we need to continue the forward progress that we have made; what a hoot!
I looked at both sides again this time… if the “right” wants to win, why did they not run someone who would be a good choice?
Honestly, most of the stuff Romney promises to do on his “first day” – which is something different each time he spoke in different towns – will NEVER happen. He will never overturn Roe v. Wade … the GOP needs that lie too badly to get votes. His first day will have to be about 240 hours long too, to get all his promises done.
I’d vote for a Republican, maybe, if they ran someone good. Years ago they had people like Jerry Ford who actually had to WORK for a living at one time, and who had served in the military, and who could give and take a little to get SOMETHING done in Washington.
Voting down by a third in the heaviest Obama precincts from 2008 at 10 a.m. Also down in Roanoke County but not by nearly as much. I also see that Sherman Lea had to wait two hours to vote at Ruffner and watched people leave without voting because there were only two people working there.
I am hoping enough people are smart enough to vote Obama back in.
I think Romney has insulted voters by assuming we were stupid and could not educate ourselves about the issues. I think he is turning out some otherwise apathetic undecideds and independents to vote against his process and his character.
Dan, the other day you asked, in another thread, you asked what the Bush Administration did about the Black Panther voter intimidation in 2008. While looking at information about the very same behavior that is apparently going on today, I found this.
Interestingly it states that:
“On Election Day in 2008, three members of the New Black Panther Party stood outside a polling place in Philadelphia, with one of them brandishing a nightstick or baton. The Justice Department under President George W. Bush filed a civil complaint again three Black Panthers — Minister King Samir Shabazz, Malik Zulu Shabazz and Jerry Jackson — charging them with violating voter rights by using coercion, threats and intimidation. The Obama administration later dismissed most of the case, even though the Black Panthers had not contested the charges.”
Yes indeed, the Democrats and Obama administration sure seem committed to a fair election process.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/chris-christie-mitt-romney_n_2082634.html
“A source inside Romney’s campaign also told Jon Ward that Christie should have attended a rally in Morrisville, Pa., 20 minutes from Trenton, the New Jersey capital.
“You can’t tell me he couldn’t have gone over there for a night rally,” the source told Ward.”
If Romney loses, Christie’s going to be made the goat.
Interesting thing after reading others’ comments, I am also a former Republican. The GOP’s extreme social issues offend me and I am a Christian raised in a Baptist church. The other difference was I went back to college and received a degree in economics and finance. It made me realize just how wrong the party of business is on the issues of a new global economy. All they can do is hope to role back time because their economics just don’t work anymore. Sad to see my dad’s party he loved implode.
Good thing there’s no fraud among Repubs.
“An election worker in Oregon is facing a criminal investigation for allegedly altering multiple ballots to benefit Republican candidates.
Blue Oregon’s Kari Chisholm reported that the Oregon City woman’s Facebook page indicated she “liked” various conservative personalities, candidates and organizations including the Republican National Committee, The Tea Party, Paul Ryan VP, the National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC), Ann Romney and Fox News.”
Raw Story (http://s.tt/1sglR)
Folk, who I have talked to, who went early reported long lines & waits.
I went at 1:15 and was in and out in 10 minutes. No wait at the check-in table. One person ahead of me in the “line” at the voting machines.
All the comments about Henry’s link being taken down got me thinking – if Anonymous were to strike today, they could wreak all kinds of havoc. Folks might want to take any major breaking news reports with a grain of salt, just in case.
Re: Comment by Sandi Saunders — November 6, 2012 @ 12:16 pm
A third or fourth party option only in national elections is virtually useless. The moderates and alternatives need to build from the ground up and get into Congress! When you only have the fire breathers we have now, this is what you get.
—————–
Yup.
However, short-term, third parties have caused realignments within the major parties.
In line for 1 1/2 hours at Garden City…10am – 11:30am. I do not mind the wait to vote, really, BUT there were only 4 machines and 1 was having problems, 2 poll workers and 2 computers to produce tickets to vote – problem w/ one computer earlier in the morning according to poll worker…so 1 computer for awhile. An elderly voter asked if he could go ahead and vote, was told no that he would have to wait – I said that I would let him in front of me as I was nearing the booth – poll worker said that I could not let him in front of me! He left w/o voting!!!!!!!!!! Yes, there was a handicapped section where voters sat and waited until the people who were next to them checking in came by in line & then they could get up & in line…CRAZY CRAZY…I called Channel 7 once and texted them 2x about the situation. The poll worker said there had been big problems earlier with the line. SHOULD HAVE BEEN! How long have they known that there was going to be a presidential election today in Roanoke? Uh, four years!!!!!!!!!! It’s not like they found out at the last minute!!!!!! I was not rude to the poll worked – I admire her work – but she did not have to get up – come over and single me out for asking to let an old man get in front of me in line! A friend said that there were problems at the Forest Park precinct this morning at 6am – not enough machines working!!! I called my husband while in line and he said that it’s Kenneth Thomas “Ken” Cuccinelli II’s fault. You would have to know my husband!
Long story short: As I approached the end of the line to vote, I dropped back and let FIVE people who were behind me go to the front of the line – I LET THEM GO IN FRONT OF ME before I voted – my act of civil disobedience for the day AND then I cried all the way to my car. PS: I believe I just broke some keys on my keyboard. Peace.
Re: Comment by John Wilburn — November 6, 2012 @ 12:25 pm
Simply having strong convictions doesn’t make one narrow-minded. I’m referring to at least a two-axis political scale, a concept that many here don’t see. There is left and right, but authoritarian and libertarian too. One can lean more toward or away from personal liberty within nearly the same spectrum of left and right.
——————
Yup.
I have been preaching that on this blog for awhile.
I strongly agree with the “at least a two-axis political scale. [emphasis added]”
For those who haven’t checked out such a scale, check out: http://tinyurl.com/w6he
BTW, some might be surprised how close Obama & Romney are on the scale. See: http://tinyurl.com/6nrpm4y
As to your “at least”, I think Myers Briggs model of personality factors play a big part, also. How you prefer to process information and how you prefer to make decisions are major factors, IMHO. Here on the blog, I think those factors are why Sandi and I can strongly agree on some things and vehemently disagree on others. (And, BTW, I have never held the one or the other of the variables in those M&B factors are inherently superior to the other.)
But it goes beyond that.
Agreeing, or disagreeing, on one issue or with a simple statement may have its roots in very different value sets. People can agree on something or a simple statement for very different ideological reasons, or for totally non-ideological reasons.
For example folk might give the same negative answer to the question, “Do you eat bacon?” — for quite different reasons:
Just don’t like the taste.
Are worried about their own personal health issues — e.g., any red meat, fat intake, salt intake etc.
Is a Vegetarian for formal organized religious reasons.
Is a Vegetarian for ethical reasons outside of organized religion, e.g., issues w/ ecological impact of meat production v. the same food value from vegetables, PETA type values, the bambi syndrome, etc.
Is a Non-vegetarian but avoids pork because of organized religion dictates. (And as we know from the middle-east folks in this group are often at war, for reasons that have little to do with bacon or other food restrictions.)
Etc.
So, IMHO, the one-dimensional categories of “right” and “left” (primarily based on economic theory and formalized for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789) are overly simplistic for today’s complex political landscape — even if it told the whole story back then, which I doubt.
Chuck, what you’re saying is the Bush admin did NOTHING except issue the equivalent of a parking ticket. And why? Easy.
It’s because there were three idiots, one carrying a nightstick, outside 1 polling place. And that was it.
Not one person at that polling place wasn’t able to vote. The guy with the stick didnt’ threaten anyone with it. The amount of hot air and whining that’s been spent on this one issue is amazing.
I refuse to “make a federal case out of the inconsequentially semi-thuggish behavior of two black men acting as poll watchers in a district with 34 whites in a precinct of 970. Nearly two years later, Main Justice noted:
“No voters at all in the Philadelphia precinct have come forward to allege intimidation. The complaints have come from white Republican poll watchers, who have given no evidence they were registered to vote in the majority black precinct.”
http://crooksandliars.com/news-hound-ellen/fox-revives-its-bogus-new-black-p
For the record, I’ve never been a Republican. My views on guns notwithstanding, I would generally be considered extremely liberal. The notion that Obama is too liberal is hilarious and proof that conservatives have managed to reset the boundaries on the “liberal–conservative” continuum.
Anyway, gorgeous, sunny, clear weather in the Cleveland area. No lines at my polling place, I’m guessing because there’s a huge number of absentee voters in my district.
And final numbers:
Nate Silver (538 Blog)-
President
Electoral Vote Count- Obama 313 Romney 225
Popular Vote- Obama 50.8% Romney 48.3%
Victory Probabilities- Obama 90.9% Romney 9.1%
Senate
Total Balancee- 52/53 Democrats (no gain or the loss of one)
Probability of gaining/holding the Majority- Democrats 95.3% Republicans 4.7%
Sam Wang (Princeton Election Consortium)-
President
Electoral Vote Count- Obama 303 Romney 225
Popular Vote- Obama 51.1% Romney 48.9
Victory Probabilities- Obama 99.2% (random drift) 100% (Bayesian) Romney .8% (RD) 0% (B)
Wang thinks there is a 50/50 chance of an automatic recount in Florida. He is also incredibly certain of Obama winning Virginia (>97.7% probability). Silver is not quite as certain but still has the chances high, 87.7%.
We should have a pretty good idea of how it’s going to go sometime after 7:30 eastern time. Virginia’s polls close at 7:00 and Ohio’s at 7:30. If Obama wins both, I think Romney is all but dead. A split keeps him alive, and if he somehow wins both of them, we’re in for a very interesting evening.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/06/foreign_election_officials_amazed_by_trust_based_us_voting_system
I’m also from Ohio, and I too am disgusted!
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/rtd-opinion/2012/nov/04/tdopin02-we-need-regulation-but-not-this-much-ar-2333362/
Sandi, re: 1:23;
Who was running your party when the obamacare bill was pushed thru congress with no allowance for amendments from the other side?
How can you believe there is “honesty” in a CIC that “fires” a general and an admiral because they were trying to save American lives in Libya and who also refuses to tell the American public the “truth” of his “orders” until after an election?
If you are looking for “honesty” and “inclusiveness” you have cast your lot with the wrong crowd.
http://tinyurl.com/a32mhl2
**
Heard on the Hill — Roll Call’s Gossip Blog
Obama Voter in Pennsylvania Claims Ballot Fraud in Viral Video
By Neda Semnani Posted at 12:56 p.m. today
The top video on Reddit this morning was posted by a voter with the handle “CentralPaVote,” but its veracity seems to be in doubt.
The footage shows a voter attempting to use a computerized touch screen to mark the ballot for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden. Instead, a check goes up alongside the GOP presidential ticket, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.
Sources in Pennsylvania claim the video is fake, but CentralPaVote swears it is true.
“There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited,” CentralPaVote writes in the video’s description. “I’m not a video guy, but if it’s possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shitty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.”
SNIP
**
My husband and I waited about an hour and 15 minutes to vote this morning at Monterey Elementary. They had four machines and 6 poll workers. The ladies running the precinct seemed like seasoned veterans, as they had the line well organized and moving an quickly as possible. Despite my son’s stated desire to vote for Santa Claus, we voted blue instead of red.
Right Dan, I don’t think three guys holding nightsticks is threatening at all and it’s funny how some people are intimidated by two white people with a little cell phone too when voting!
Spineless cowards!
http://tinyurl.com/azfugum
**
Chris Christie Criticizes ‘Know-Nothing Romney Staffers’
By Niels Lesniewski Posted at 12:38 p.m. today
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) ripped into campaign aides for GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney at a news conference this morning to discuss the recovery efforts from Hurricane Sandy.
Christie fired back at a story published Monday evening by the Huffington Post, which cited an unnamed Romney campaign source saying that Christie rejected a request from the Romney campaign to appear at a campaign event in Morrisville, Pa., not far from Trenton, N.J.
Christie said there was no such invitation. Moreover, he said that he spoke directly with Romney the weekend before Sandy made landfall to say that his responsibilities as governor would preclude him from making any more campaign trips. Christie had been a leading Romney surrogate.
SNIP
**
tomr,
I actually saw a young voter in his pajamas this morning when I was working the polls… too funny…
Chuck,
Apparently Dan forgets that it was holder that let these guys off to “intimidate another day”.
What you do not realize is that Dan was “on site the entire time” to interview every potential voter at the polling place to validate his claim that the “guy with the stick didn’t threaten anyone”.
Jason, as I’ve been driving around to different polling places today, I’ve been listening to right-wing talk radio. According to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, things are looking up for Romney. They say they’re pretty sure Mitt’s gonna win.
Cue the “stolen election” complaints Wednesday. . .
A TP friend of mine (I’ve known him since we were both teenagers) posted this on his Facebook page.
“Just a reminder before you start watching the canned new reports this evening. This day in history there will be more voter fraud than in all of the nation’s history combined. Electronic voting machines that register a vote for obama when a voter selected romney. (amazingly the machines never make the mistake the other way around)”
“Democrats physically removing people and even election officials from polling places unless they are democrats.”
“Pay attention people, you are witnessing history in the making.”
I just couldn’t help myself when I posted the comment, Snort!
I think it’s pretty clear that they’re gonna blame Chris Christie first for Mitt’s apparent stall, then Hurricane Sandy second. (But some RW radio talkers will allege a stolen election).
Poor conservatives. It’s NEVER their fault.
Sandi,
Re: “No voters at all in the Philadelphia precinct have come forward to allege intimidation….”
Interesting concept…
Numbers run as high as 75%-90% of rapes are unreported… I suppose they never happened…
In the NBP issue there was irrefutable video evidence.
As long as we are on a Ohio thread, this might be a comic relief — albeit not about voting: http://tinyurl.com/b8vwu8l
**
Woman Who Drove on Sidewalk Must Wear ‘Idiot’ Sign
CLEVELAND November 6, 2012 (AP)
A woman caught on camera driving on a sidewalk to avoid a Cleveland school bus that was unloading children will have to stand at an intersection wearing a sign warning about idiots.
[VIDEO]
Court records show a Cleveland Municipal Court judge on Monday ordered 32-year-old Shena Hardin to stand at an intersection for two days next week. She will have to wear a sign saying: “Only an idiot drives on the sidewalk to avoid a school bus.”
The judge ordered her to wear the sign from 7:45 a.m. to 8:45 a.m. both days.
Hardin’s license was suspended for 30 days and she was ordered to pay $250 in court costs.
SNIP
**
Now, if this approach spreads, think of the applications here in Virginia.
Dan, re: “never their fault”
It has been liberals, particularly obama, that will not accept responsibility for anything negative. Four years later he is still blaming Bush.
I tend to take a man at his word. Obama said if he did not have thing turned around his presidency would be a on term proposition… he did not… he should have resigned.
Romney says that he will not spend time blaming the previous administration (obama’s) for all the crap he will have to deal with… he will just “fix it”.
We know obama has not lived up to his word. I will be negative towards Romney if he does not live up to his.
Dave Hicks,
There are a few concealed carry permit holders in Virginia who should be sentenced similarly! (But not you, Jack or JW!)
mikeO, he did turn things around. You simply don’t want to see it. You cannot allow yourself to see it.
Obama turned the unemployment rate, which was rising when he took office, around.
He turned nongovernment employment around. The private sector has created more than 5 million jobs in the past 3.5 years. That’s more than double its performance under Bush.
The stock market bottomed out only 6 weeks after Obama’s inauguration. It turned around. It’s now more than double the March 2009 low.
All of these are facts that you refuse to see. Not my problem — it’s yours.
Mike O: If you don’t think things have turned around, you don’t remember four years ago. America does, which is why Obama will be re-elected today.
For those who were all excited about how Obama precincts were behind 2008, Washington Heights was almost back at 2008 levels by 2 p.m. At Forest Park, the lines were ridiculous.
mikeO-
Do you not see the difference between unreported rapes and unreported voter intimidation?
I’ve got a suggestion for all Republicans. If you are about to make any statement that has the word, “rape,” in it, cut if off before it comes out of your pie hole. Because it’s damn near guaranteed that you will say something hateful, horrifying, and/or incredibly stupid.
Dan-
No doubt. The good thing is, Silver and his ilk have the detailed records of the polling data that shows that the election was never really close. Obviously their true believers will buy into a stolen election, but people with any sense (and I think many Republicans are in this category) will know that they are wrong.
It feels like Christmas Eve….and there is something wonderful coming…
Four more years.
Dan,
All partisan jokes and banter aside… in a few hours (hopefully) we will know who will be the next president of the USA.
Hopefully it will be decided without extreme controversy and in the mature and fair manner which has always made our country a shining example to others.
Should my candidate (Romney) win, I will be honestly disappointed if he does not reach across the aisle in an attempt to bring ALL Americans together to solve the multitude of issues that confront us. It is also my hope that both chambers of congress will put away the petty differences and work on the real issues that concern our nation.
Should your candidate (Obama) win, I will be honestly disappointed if he does not reach across the aisle in an attempt to bring ALL Americans together to solve the multitude of issues that confront us. It is also my hope that both chambers of congress will put away the petty differences and work on the real issues that concern our nation.
Tomorrow brings a new dawn, with shining opportunity for whoever the next president might be; I hope our leadership will understand and lead in a direction that will satisfy the center of America, and bring those, from both extremes, closer to the heart of America.
I can’t wish you “good luck” tonight, as that would be very disingenuous; but I can wish good will to all here who strongly support that which they believe.
I am off to watch the exit polls… hopefully this will all be over tomorrow…
No Mike O, there was not in any manner a normal person could see “irrefutable video evidence”. That was the problem with the dog whistle whining in the first place. They did not approach anyone, they were just there. Seriously do you think no one had ever seen them before in that neighborhood? I cannot blame them if they thought some people might disrupt the voting they knew would be overwhelmingly for Obama. What I know beyond doubt is that you know nothing about it.
Did it “look” bad? Maybe if you have never seen a NBP member. People did not seem to be upset and as noted, no one complained except the white Republicans who were not even in that precinct. Beat the dead horse as you like. REAL voter disenfranchisement and intimidation as well as hardship is happening in plenty of places and you will manage to conveniently ignore that.
Dan,
I posted earlier without reading some of the other stuff…
Not going to get back into a debate, but I just wanted to give you a head’s up re; stock market.
No matter who gets elected, you should expect a 50% retrench in the next 4 months (the market does not care about politics, only about taking your money).
I suggest safe investments for at least the next 6 months.
After seeing the video of the Pennsylvania machine repeatedly showing a Romney result when Obama was selected, I have little faith in the security of our voting systems. I hope Obama’s lawyers are ready to go, because there’s zero chance that was the only machine rigged for Romney.
#84: mike O said : “Obama said if he did not have thing turned around his presidency would be a on (sic) term proposition… he did not… he should have resigned.”
mike O, Bob Goodlatte said he would only serve six terms and then self term limit himself. He did not. He also said back then that he would always support the debt and deficit spending guidelines of the so called Contract with America. He did not. So, should he resign?
Mike O, your delusions are truly stunning! You “believe… a general and an admiral” were fired “because they were trying to save American lives in Libya” on what damn evidence? You and the right wing just literally make things up!
Anyone looking for “honesty” and “inclusiveness” will never find either in the TP/R tent!
I’m with Debbie… “snort”!
My mom sent me this that was on a friend’s facebook page:
”For My Fellow Hokies….I was in the voting booth earlier today and I did the “Hokie Pokey”, I put the right ones in and took the left ones out!”
Alfred, please objectively look into what I said. I like Miriam, but Suzie has never understood the libertarian vs. authoritarian axis this and it doesn’t appear that Miriam does either. A lot of true lefties and true righties don’t. This is why some RWers call me a LWer and LWers say I’m “conservative” when I’ve actually been very consistently libertarian in my views; more consistnt in general that the flip-flopping that we see throughout the two major parties.
Shrillary:
90.”It feels like Christmas Eve….and there is something wonderful coming…
Four more years.”
UFB. It feels more like April Fool’s.
If you do the Hokie Pokie while voting, does that make you a “poll dancer?”
See comment #40. Her record stands.
As Bill Clinton noted, No One could have turned the US around in 4 years after the carnage Bush left Obama with. So, Mike O. It IS still Bushes fault after 4 years the same as it was the day he left office. The good news is we ARE making progress, with hard work and luck, the next president will be riding a wave of a stable economy and an American at peace and not War. I know, it’s a lot to ask, but we have to have goals.
Wilburn, someone told me recently that libertarians are just ‘Republicans who smoke pot’.
Get some of those snoring old farts that are making 6 figures by going along with their buds when they wake them up out of congress and maybe someone will be able to do something. It is not the pres that has the most power
Contra, I’ve always heard that libertarians are rwers who smoke pot and hate cops
That is a common misconception of the LP…though one they don’t do enough to dispel. My experience with the LP is that they’re pro-individual freedom, on everything. Leave the decisions up to the people, with a limited Federal/central government to provide the necessary security and protections to ensure that freedoms are maintained. It’s sort of idylic and probably not entirely realistic, but they’re at least consistent. They take the better parts of liberal social and conservative economic thought and combine them.
Contrasuzie:
103.”Wilburn, someone told me recently that libertarians are just ‘Republicans who smoke pot’.”
Kristen:
105.”Contra, I’ve always heard that libertarians are rwers who smoke pot and hate cops”
So do these cute ways to disparage the party tell you all you need to know? I don’t hate cops, but I do hate abuse of their power. I don’t smoke pot, but don’t think that more words on paper and enforcement that drives the black market, criminalizes good people, and continues the failed “war on drugs” is the answer. Unless the two of you have actually seriously and objectively studied the political compass, you won’t likely see the distict difference of libertarians.
#93: “I just wanted to give you a head’s up re; stock market. No matter who gets elected, you should expect a 50% retrench in the next 4 months” comment by mike O
Remember folks, you heard it here first: mike O predicts that sometime in the next four months (by mid-March 2013) the DJIA will decline to 6,622.
That’s 6,622, within four months, and mike O.
Remember the name, remember the date, remember the number.
Warren,
With my 401K, I got almost all out in June, which means I missed some gains — but I’m not greedy. I don’t believe mikeO is entirely off base. I don’t expect a 50 percent decline, but I do believe the thing is overvalued and that it’s floating on quantitative easing.
I’m with ya, Dan, but 50% (6,622 from yesterday)? C’mon…
#76 More lies by MMM. When will it end?
gdad@11:14
I assume that was a rhetorical question.