Romney regulators went soft on meningitis-spreading pharmacy
Wikimedia Commons | Text on the bottle changed by Dan
Note from Dan: This was such a popular and eye-opening weekend thread that I decided to recycle it today, which marks Mitt Romney’s last visit to Roanoke before the election. It truly is troubling in terms of the kind of “(de)regulation” we can look forward to if Mitt Romney is elected president. Plus, I’m very miffed nobody has commented on the clever label work I did with the vial on the left.
We learned in The Roanoke Times Friday that medicines from the tainted compounding pharmacy in Massachusetts went to far many more Virginia clinics, hospitals and surgery centers than had been previously identified.
Locally, Carilion Clinic hospitals, Lewis Gale Medical Center hospitals, and many other hospitals and independent practices and surgery centers across the state used stuff from the New England Compounding Center.
So far, only steroids from NECC used in back-pain injections have been implicated in a deadly outbreak of fungal meningitis that as of Thursday had sickened 328 and killed 24 people in 18 states, including Virginia.
But 3,000 or so other hospitals and medical clinics in Virginia and across the country also purchased other medications from NECC. Those medical facilities are now notifying hundreds of thousands of patients that they have also been exposed to medicines from the tainted-drug manufacturer.
So it’s worth asking: how did this happen? How could the state of Massachusetts have allowed such an apparently incompetent drug manufacturer to grow and expand in a manner that became so deadly for so many people?
And the answer to that question goes directly back to 2004, and the we-don’t-need-no-regulations administration of then Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.
From the Associated Press:
Massachusetts regulators in 2004 proposed a formal reprimand for a company now linked to deadly meningitis outbreak, but they never delivered it after the company protested the reprimand could be “fatal to the business.”
The sanction by the Board of Registration in Pharmacy was included in a proposed consent agreement that was meant to resolve complaints against the New England Compounding Center in Framingham. The complaints included a failure to meet accepted standards for making the same steroid that’s been connected to the outbreak.
Make sure you click on that link and read the story above. Because if you do, you’ll find out that sanctions originally proposed by the Massachusetts pharmacy board would have, according to NECC, impacted the company so badly it probably would have had to shut down for good.
That would have been the best thing to have happened. But because of the Romney Administration’s neglect, 24 people are now dead and 328 others are fighting a deadly illness. And hundreds of thousands of patients at 3,000 medical facilities around this country that used NECC products are now receiving frightening letters and phone calls warning them that that they may have been given tainted medicine.
But there’s more. People were apparently getting sick and dying from meningitis related to tainted drugs manufactured by that place as early as 2002. And it was back then, during the Gov. Mitt Romney administration, that regulators found the pharmacy manufacturing operation was not keeping records regarding its sterility procedures.
The proposed consent agreement, sent to owner Barry Cadden for review in October 2004, included the reprimand and a three-year probationary period for the company’s registration and Cadden’s license.
In its response, the company’s attorney wrote that the board’s dealings with the company were “a success story” and a reprimand was unwarranted.
“The collateral consequences to many, if not all of NECC’s 42 other licenses (to operate in other states), would be potentially fatal to the business,” attorney Paul Cirel wrote.
“Such a catastrophe is clearly not the intended result of the Board’s proposed reprimand, nor is it warranted in this case,” Cirel wrote. “The Board’s mandate is to protect the public health safety and welfare, not punish the licensees.”
In a footnote, he wrote, “Once disclosed, the reprimand will surely result in inquiries/investigations in those other jurisdictions. Regardless of the derivative actions taken, the attendant legal and administrative costs will be devastating.”
The case ended without disciplinary action as part of a different consent agreement reached with the board in 2006.
Why didn’t Massachusetts do more back then, nip the problem in the bud? It’s not as if somebody back then hadn’t already died from meningitis, after having received the same steroidal injection from an NECC medicine linked to the recent outbreak. NECC paid a lot of money to settle at least one lawsuit related to such a fatality back then.
Were NECC’s owners contributors to Romney’s gubernatorial campaign? His current presidential campaign? At this point, the answers to those questions are unclear. We do know, however, that Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown has already donated thousands the NECC owners gave him to a meningitis-related charity.
But one thing is clear: former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is now running for president. And he’s promising the same kind of cut-through-the-red-tape regulatory environment in Washington, and across this country, as he brought to Massachusetts during his single term as governor there.
That kind of “regulation” aided NECC in growing its business and expanding across to the country, to the point that one of its medicines has killed dozens and sickened hundreds. We don’t need no burdensome regulations — yeah!
And now hundred of thousands more patients are being frightened with letters and phone calls, because the Romney administration didn’t shut that place down when it could and should have.
Is that the kind of regulatory attitude we want in the White House? How many more people have to die before we realize it’s not?
November 1, 2012 - 9:00 AM
Jeez. What a ridiculous stretch since Romney hasn’t been governor of Mass in six years. Are you sure it wasn’t Bain Capital’s fault?
Massachusetts is a state that is run 100% by leftwingers. Period. And yet they go back and find the one Republican and try to pin the outbreak on him. Unbelievable. It is one of the most regulated anti-capitalist states in the country. This outbreak is one more example of how excessive regulation doesn’t accomplish its stated goal while choking off business and costing consumers billions.
McDonnell has started dismantling business regulations in Virginia too. This situation alone shows Romney does not have the judgement to be president.
According to the Obama folks Romney killed a steel workers wife six years after he left Bain Capital, and now he’s killed people six years after he left being Governor of Mass. This is the reelection campaign of Obama and associates? How about Obama’s CDC for the last four years and the Democrat Mass. Administrations for the past six years? What haved they been doing? And on the CDC, take a good look at who Obama put in charge:
Dr. Thomas Frieden and Health Malfeasance
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http://roanokeslant.blogspot.com/2009/06/dr-thomas-frieden-and-health.html
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The role of government apparently in the eyes of some is to enable big business and not to protect the common good. Should Romney be elected we will see more of this. To them the deaths and illnesses caused by this outbreak of meningitis is just an unfortunate by product of protecting the interests of big business.
Talk about going soft,don’t you think Obama went soft in protecting our people and denying them help after 3 pleas in Libya? Everytime I read some out of date political junk like by this this columnist it confirms I made the right decision to cancel my Roanoke Times paper subscription. You are sure desperate aren’t you?
sooo, what have the Mass. democrats done since Romney left office? How long ago did Romney leave office? Did the Democrats stop bad things from happening? Could they have? Why didn’t they?
You are grasping at staws! I think you should just ask gdiddley for one from HIS collection.
– this is a tremendous piece of work, Dan
– this tragedy is the direct result of the negligence of the Romney administration — it calls for criminal charges and they should go right to the top
– I’m thinking seriously about posting your blog on Facebook — do I have your permission?
Robert A. George, M.D. I’m fine if you post anything on this blog on Facebook or elsewhere, so long as you don’t put words in my mouth.
Suzie,
You and I both know that Romney was governor of Massachusetts when state regulators had a chance to shut this tainted drug-manufacturer down. Pretend to deny that all you want. It’s a fact.
Also in fact, the then Mass pharmacy underlings originally proposed an action, following AT LEAST ONE MENINGITIS DEATH from tainted NECC steroids, that would have shut down NECC, according to the company’s own letter. This was in 2004.
That’s what should have happened back then. But it did not. Some higher up in the administration thought better of it. Who? Why? Who got to them?
Those questions are going to be answered, sooner or later, now that 24 people are dead, hundreds more are sick, and hundreds of thousands are scared.
All because the Romney administration didn’t act as it should have to protect the public health.
The slightest whiff of anything they can blame on or lie about Obama is news, but they whine like the babies they are when the tables are turned. God you people are sad and predictable. This is too much like picking on the simple-minded.
Dan,
What part of “Suzie’s mantra of no governmental interference in business and no civil litigation against businesses by those whom they harm” don’t you get?
Come on. Give “the girl” [her term] a break. “The girl” knows what is best for business — regardless of what Adam Smith said.
[/sarcasm font]
Why is this information on national television.
We need to put some responsibility on Romney, being he knew about this company.
People have died and it no fun.
How can I share this story on tweet or face book.
It makes me sick about the Govenor.
Romney would have been a great character in an Upton Sinclair novel.
“They use everything about the pig but the squeal”
at least Romney didnt sit and watch his ambassador be murdered, or did bammy help plan it?
we already know he’s a muslim and has said he will stand with them….2nd century morons.
bammy wont even answer questions about it…you can vote for that rat bastard- go ahead, all the social issues in this country will mean nothing if there isnt a country left..
“Comment by Robert A. George M.D. — October 27, 2012 @ 1:39 pm”
get a grip, “doctor”
You and I both know that Romney was governor of Massachusetts when state regulators had a chance to shut this tainted drug-manufacturer down. Pretend to deny that all you want. It’s a fact.
I don’t know any such thing. But Democrats have run the whole shooting match for six years in Mass just like they have the U.S. Congress. Why didn’t they correct the situation?
Documents show that NECC has known for a year their stuff was contaminated. Hopefully there will be criminal proceedings as well as civil.
This goes beyond Rmomey….these deaths can be laid right at the door of every knee-jerk advocate of deregulation. Eat it up, RWers…this is the world you want to create.
#16 After you, “7-Eleven owner.”
Since others have done well to point out the idiocy of blaming this on Romney….I’d like to make another point.
Why has the FDA not been held as accountable for the mistakes they make?….ya know those drugs that have been touted as modern day miracles that you see lawyers drumming up business from a few months later….all that contaminated food that has been sold nationwide while they are trying to crack down on the local farmers and ruin their businesses.
Just askin;
Re: Comment by Kristen — October 28, 2012 @ 10:15 am
Yup.
Old Rants & Raves (w/ lies) view of utopia in real life.
Notice her frantic diversionary tactic of the Tu Quoque fallacy — her desperate attempts to defend herself and the RW from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. However this classic Red Herring distraction is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge.
Suzie, speak to the issue of deregulation and civil litigation recovery. Show us how your defense of deregulation and your opposition to civil litigation recovery protects the public in real life — not in your dreams. How do people take their business elsewhere in the case the drugs used in hospitals?
Faults and all, I prefer Obama to the “rat bastard” pammala is supporting. She makes it easy.
Sharon compounding pharmacies aren’t regulated by the FDA. Federal law doesn’t allow it.
They are regulated by STATES, or, in the case of the New England Compounding Center under the Gov. Mitt Romney administration, NOT regulated at all.
The fact is, NECC was operating illegally. It was a drug-manufacturing outlet, supplying 3,000 different hospitals and clinics and surgery centers across the nation. It was not operating as a compounding pharmacy, which is supposed to be by individual prescription.
Romney’s board of pharmacy should have realized this, and should have shut them down.
Thanks for asking!
“…just like they have the U.S. Congress. Why didn’t they correct the situation? Comment by Suzie — October 28, 2012 @ 7:50 am
Rwers keep stating this lie as fact no matter HOW many times they have been shown that this is not true…played this same stupid game last week with pamadoodle…geez, I have never seen such dimly lit bulbs in my entire life…no ray of hope in those dark caverns…
The very people who fight and have fought the funding resources that agencies like the FDA and state equivalents need to physically inspect, enforce and assure the safety of the food and drugs in this nation complaining about mistakes and outbreaks is hypocrisy at its ugly heights IMO.
While it appears that the MA State Board of Pharmacy could have, and probably should have, dealt with the deficiencies noted in there investigation more aggressively I do not see a connection to Romney that
is alluded to in this piece. Romney was governor; probably knows very little about pharmacy but obviously had professionals who did in charge of
regulations and compliance. VA has similiar type Boards governing Pharmacy, Medicine, Insurance Agents, Attorneys and Accountants. Having known one of the heads of such Boards on a personal basis it is my opinion that they are not politically oriented but rather concerned with the protection of the general public. The Governor may appoint members to
such Boards but does not interfere or actively participate in the affairs
of same. That said, tying Romney into personal responsibility for the actions or inactions of such a Board on a specific case is, at best, a stretch and, at worst, Lypocrisy.
Why, Dan, do you not do a similiar piece on Fast and Furious? Many more deaths occurred as a result of the scandal; direct involvement of Potus
and the AG involvement are well established due to the invocation of Executive Privilege to hide the records and far more information, including sworn Congressional testimony,is available for material and research. Oh wait, Fast and Furious is about Obama and you therefore would invoke you personal privilege of liberal bias to not write such a piece. So sorry, my bad.
And yet Leon, tying Obama into personal responsibility for the actions or inaction of ANYONE is par for your hypocrisy.
Fast and Furious was indeed about many things, none of them were Obama, but what the hell, throw it up and see what fellow moron let’s it stick.
Pitiful.
Fast and Furious was indeed about many things, none of them were Obama, but what the hell, throw it up and see what fellow moron let’s it stick.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — October 28, 2012 @ 6:30 pm
Sandi, how do you explain the exercise of Executive Privilege by POTUS?
This clearly states he was involved as it can cover only records he has
direct knowledge or involvment with. . .actions speak louder than words.
I agree. It is pitiful. The hypocrisy I mean. Dan can attribute something that happens today to Romney, even though he left the Mass governor’s office 5 and half years ago, yet Obama bears no responsibility for something that happened in his justice department while he was in office. You’re right, the partisan hypocrisy is pitiful.
It is also pitiful how you bemoan the lack of civility from conservatives but are the first to call anyone who disagrees with you a moron.
And once again, why is it that all we are hearing from liberals in this campaign is about how bad Romney is? Every day it is some new straw you guys grasp for in an attempt to make Romney the boogeyman. One thing is sure. The democrats have clearly forsaken any right to call republicans fear mongers. That’s all this campaign has been about – trying to convince voters how bad Romney is. In many cases it has amounted to nothing more than liberals levying some unsubstantiated claim or speculation about what Romney might do if elected. Then, if he actually addresses the issue with his true position, the liberals wail and whine about “Romnesia” and how he has changed his position, when in reality, he didn’t change positions. He just contradicted the liberal propaganda.
Yes, pitiful is probably the best word to describe it.
“If You Don’t Have a Record To Run On, Then You Paint Your Opponent as Someone People Should Run From” – Barack Obama 2008
Leon @26 – it would be helpful if you knew what you were posting about. Stop trying to redirect to the faux story Fast and Furious…
Guess which party had the most years of control of congress between 2003 – 2007? Yep the same guys who cut FDA and FEMA [hint it wasn't the Democrats]….departments which seem particularly important lately, no?
“The pharmaceutical industry has also lobbied to maintain their independence from FDA oversight. Health advocates have been warning about the dangers of compounded drugs for the past several decades, but efforts in Congress to strengthen the FDA’s regulatory power over compounding pharmacies in 2003 and 2007 faced too much opposition from the pharmaceutical industry to make any progress.”
“The number of Americans who they believe could be at risk for contracting a deadly strain of fungal meningitis — which originated from contaminated steroid shots from a Massachusetts-based compounding pharmacy outside of the FDA’s regulatory power — to 14,000 people.”
“Since the thousands of U.S. pharmacies across the country that practice compounding — an attempt to keep down prescription costs by recombining medications and repackaging them for sale — do not technically count as drug manufacturers, the FDA CURRENTLY HAS NO AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE THEM TO ENSURE THAT THEIR COMPOUNDED DRUGS MEET the agency’s safety guidelines.” [caps for the dimwitted]
http://thinkprogress.org/tag/food-and-drug-administration/?mobile=nc
This goes beyond Rmomey….these deaths can be laid right at the door of every knee-jerk advocate of deregulation. Eat it up, RWers…this is the world you want to create.
Comment by Kristen — October 28, 2012 @ 10:15 am
The piece above clearly states that the MA Board of Pharmacy investigation began in 2002 with reprimand issued 2004 and consent agreement rendered 2006. It is now 2012 and, obviously, there is a
mold contamination problem. However, it would appear that between 2006
and 2011 the company maintained compliance with the consent order.
In summary, regulations were in force, were enforced and. . .we still have
a problem. How would deregulation affect this outcome? IMO, no effect;
we would still have a contamination problem. We also have product recalls
on food products, other medical products and automobiles. Yet most recalls are not the effect of regulations being enforced but rather by people being negatively affected thereby bringing attention to the problem. In effect, the general public becomes the regulator(s) and
government regulators, for the most part, are not effective.
Krustan, are your eyes brown? My guess is yes, you are full of it.
It is also pitiful how you bemoan the lack of civility from conservatives but are the first to call anyone who disagrees with you a moron.
Comment by Chuck — October 28, 2012 @ 6:58 pm
Nail; meet hammer!
13.How can I share this story on tweet or face book.
It makes me sick about the Govenor.
Comment by Julie — October 27, 2012 @ 11:11 pm
Get book; “Facebook for Idiots”. Read book. Write post on this blog for
more information or questions. Hire Obama to help. . .by the time you figure it out he will be looking for work.
Let’s suppose a truck driver is convicted of auto manslaughter, and rather than being send to prison for 5 years, the judge cuts him a break and gives him probation with no license suspension, because that suspension will end his career. And then a few years later his out-of-control tractor trailer mows down a crowd of people at a crowded flea market and just happens to kill 24 and injure 328.
Many people would look at that and say, “that first judge should not have gone soft on that guy. If he had been in prison and/or if he had no license to operate, 24 people might be alive today and 328 might be uninjured.”
As well, if some of those people became aware that the the news media (for whatever reason) failed to report the first fatality and the light sentence, they would shout “media coverup!” with a vengeance.
Not Chuck. In Chuck’s world, the second accident HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FIRST and the judge IS NOT CULPABLE AT ALL. And, in Chuck’s world, it is HYPOCRITICAL FOR ANYONE TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE.
Chuck would defend the media’s decision to bury the news of the first accident and trial outcome. And if one media outlet did, he would call them hypocrites.
That sure is a strange world you live in, Chuck.
– I’m thinking seriously about posting your blog on Facebook — do I have your permission?
Comment by Robert A. George M.D. — October 27, 2012 @ 1:39 pm
Suggest you get avatar = DR of INSANITY.
25.The very people who fight and have fought the funding resources that agencies like the FDA and state equivalents need to physically inspect, enforce and assure the safety of the food and drugs in this nation complaining about mistakes and outbreaks is hypocrisy at its ugly heights IMO.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — October 28, 2012 @ 6:18 pm
Sandi does know all about hypocrisy.
Dan@34
Bet that truck driver is an illegal alien who did not get deported because
the present DOJ and ICE chooses not to enforce immigration law.
30.Leon @26 – it would be helpful if you knew what you were posting about. Stop trying to redirect to the faux story Fast and Furious…
Sillary,
Fast and Furious is not a faux story. Check the Congressional record.
Leon,
The “reprimand” stemmed from the meningitis DEATH of a patient who had gotten an NECC steroid injection for his back. The Board of Pharmacy’s initial recommendation was to suspect the license of NECC, and they screamed like banshees that would lead to license suspensions in other states that would ultimately either kill their business totally or cost it way to much defending in legal and administrative fees.
So the state of Massachusetts, under the administration of anti-regulation Gov. Mitt Romney, said, “Oh, OK. Sorry we put you through this trouble. Jeez, what were we thinking? Only 1 guy DIED. You guys can carry on as normal.”
The first penalty — which you can bet your bippy Rommney et al had nothing to do with, was the right way to go. Recall, the company’s medicine had already KILLED somebody.
The second (very very relaxed) penalty is something Romney might very well been aware of. It happened under his watch. Was he aware? Let’s find out. 24 people are dead, 328 have been terribly sickened, hundreds of thousands more have been unnecessarily frightened because of the negligence of a compounding pharmacy that the Romney administration had a chance to shut down year ago but CHOSE instead to let it continue.
And this is what you get with the anti-regulation fervor RWers love so much. You get dirty medicine that kills dozens and makes scores of others ill.
Julie, we had buttons to share stuff on Facebook, Twitter, etc. But then we ugraded the software and it was in conflict with those. The tech folks are trying to resolve that. Sorry for the hassle, and thanks for your patience.
So the state of Massachusetts, under the administration of anti-regulation Gov. Mitt Romney, said, “Oh, OK. Sorry we put you through this trouble. Jeez, what were we thinking? Only 1 guy DIED. You guys can carry on as normal.”
Comment by Dan Casey — October 28, 2012 @ 8:58 pm
Lypocrisy. I don’t know what the state said but am absolutely certain what you have is quotations is not it. You made that verbage up to suit your biased and sick point of view. If the MA Board of Pharmacy was addressing the situation why would the Governor get involved. You’re trying to lay this all on Romney but the dog won’t hunt. Further, your
bias allows you to conveniantly ignore the timeline. . .the Board of Pharmacy finalized the consent degree order in 2006; must the deaths from
mold contamination are recent (2012 Dan). From this I can only assume
that the mold spores matured during the Obama administration when Romney
was no longer governor. . .Obama has visited MA. . .perhaps he transported
the spores to MA.
It’s all Lypocrisy Dan. When the storm picks up go outside and try farting. It will amount to the pertinent points that your piece makes.
BTW…the death of anyone from contaminated medicine is a tragedy. It is
not my intent to make light of same in posting on this topics. My condolences, thoughts and prayers go out to those who have suffered from
this tragedy.
You’re correct, Leon. I made up that quote. It was figurative, and so obvious even you caught it.
Gov Romney appointed members to the obviously ineffectual MA Pharmacy Board; in 2004 he app’t Sophia Pasedis who is the VP of regulatory affairs and compliance at Ameridose, also the subject of numerous complaints and lawsuits about quality control and sterility of their productsas well and a sister company of NECC the compunding company at the heart of this scandal.
Her son works for Medical Sales Mgt Inc., another sister corp.
In 2004 NECC settled a lawsuit for the death of William Koch of NY who died of menigitis complications from the same steroid drug that is at the heart of the outbreak today. His death prompted the FDA complaint to the MA Pharmacy Board; unfortunately the State Regulatory Boards have the final say on who gets disiplinary actions etc..
NECC had complaints lodged against them and failed inspections almost from the date of the company’s inception in 1998, so today’s tragedies have a long history in the making.
Paul Cirel their lawyer has successfully sued the MA board before and his letter looks like a threat for more of the same.
“Regardless of the derivative actions taken, the attendant legal and administrative costs will be devastating.”
I think this is like the fox guarding the chicken coop!
So Gov. Mitt Romney put the foxes in charge of the chicken coop on the Mass. Pharmacy Board that gave NECC a pass!
Thanks, maura!
45.So Gov. Mitt Romney put the foxes in charge of the chicken coop on the Mass. Pharmacy Board that gave NECC a pass!
Thanks, maura!
Comment by Dan Casey — October 29, 2012 @ 1:13 am
So we should be talking about Sophia as, per Maura’s post at 44, the State Regulatory Boards have the final say on who gets disiplinary actions etc. Glad we got this settled.
Now for the piece on Fast and Furious; with a sidebar as to why Holder and
Obama are not in jail!
“So Gov. Mitt Romney put the foxes in charge of the chicken coop on the Mass. Pharmacy Board that gave NECC a pass! Thanks, maura!
Comment by Dan Casey — October 29, 2012 @ 1:13 am”
kind of like obama in charge of military and especially intelligence, huh? MURDERER !!
This story hits close to home. My neighbor’s wife is in the hospital recovering fron fungal menigitis she got from an epidural. It will be a very long recovery for her, and it has been part of a horrendous illness as well.
The teenaged nephew of a friend was admitted last weekend to RMH and isn’t in great shape…the doctors have basically no information for his parents as to when he might improve. I hope someone somewhere is learning great lessons from this catastrophe, because the cost is going to be very high.
This is bad even for you Dan. Eight years ago. How long have democrats been in control of the state since then? For all we know the problems were corrected. And a later administration let them come back. Or he could have put them out of business and they could have gone elsewhere, say VA, and set up shop. This is truly a pile of garbage. And people wonder why the press, and that includes columnists, are held in contempt by the public.
Who ran the Mass legislature? Democrats! Don’t look, Dan. Don’t look! You might see something you don’t want to see.
Dan is wearing the bloody shirt to support his White House. That’s journalism today. Anything he can do to help his President. There is no low he will not go for his President.
I wonder if Obama’s federal regulators examined those drug companies. After all, the deaths happened under the Obama administration.
I really should go easy on Dan. He’s heart-broken today. A US senator is reportedly involved in an under-age prostitute scandal. I can hear the crying lament all the way up here
“WHY COULDN’T IT BE A REPUBLICAN?!!!”
Somebody buy the Dan’s a beer. They’ll need it to swallow a good prostitute with a US Senator story.
Wilbur Mills……please pick up the courtesy phone.
Oh so NOW you manage to agree that legislatures and obstruction matter. Big of you. We have been trying to tell you that for 4 years now. Pitiful.
“Now for the piece on Fast and Furious; with a sidebar as to why Holder and
Obama are not in jail!”
Good question Leon. Why aren’t you asking why Bushie, Chenie, Rumie, Rovie and a slew of other neocons aren’t serving time for war crimes? The fog of war has lifted. We WERE misled to and taken to war by an administration who knowingly lied about weapons of mass destruction.
Otherwise, let’s just move forward, not look back.
What 4 years are you referring to Sandi? It can’t be the first 4 years of the Obama administration.
I find it hilarious that there are so many people screaming that the buck stops at the top… until it’s their guy on top. It’s Obama’s fault that the economy isn’t booming, regardless of Republican obstructionism, but it’s not Romney’s fault (it’s the Democratic-controlled legislature’s) that a company selling dirty medicine under his watch wasn’t more heavily regulated/penalized.
Which way do you want it, people? Is the guy at the top ultimately responsible, or not?
This blame game based solely upon a letter designation after someone’s name is ridiculous. Our puppetmasters have us bickering in utter ignorance while each and every one of us get boned by them and their rich buddies. We’ve abandoned logic and reason in favor of distortion and misconstruction. It’s all about blaming someone else, yet almost everyone whines about personal responsibility… when is the last time you heard a politician, any politician, say, “This was all my fault”? Anyone?
It’s not about responsibility and guiding this country in the right direction for all, and it hasn’t been for a long time. Anyone who still believes that is a fool. It’s all about money and power and returning favors. The problem is that the reciprocal back scratches have become like our national debt; there are more due to go out than are coming in. When you have very rich people wanting their “investments” returned to them and you have an economic climate which isn’t conducive to that immediate return, the poor ultimately are the ones who suffer. Take from the people who can’t influence politics financially and give to the people who can.
They still need our votes, of course! That is the only power we truly possess as simple citizens, after all. No one on this blog is a 1%er, no matter how much they’d like to pretend that they are. No one here is dumping millions into the campaigns this season. So, the candidates and their respective parties spin us up, get us rabid and turn us loose, all while laughing at our foolish blindness. We rend our garments and gnash our teeth when the truth comes out later, of course, – when we realize that we’ve been duped into ignorant folly – but it’s too late, too bad and the people who pulled the strings have long ago laughed all the way to the bank. If you think for a second that the people who spent billions on this campaign won’t be the first to get their “fair share” returned, then you are absolutely delusional.
Mitt Romney is a scary man, no matter how you slice him. He’s proven time and again that he’ll say or do whatever it takes to get elected to an office he thinks is his divine rightful place. He’s literally on a crusade to legitimize Mormonism in the U.S., a religion created by a fourteen year-old child. If it worked for the Kennedy’s and Catholicism, Mitt thinks he can make it work for Mormonism, too. We’re talking about a man who believes God is a 6’2″ physical being residing on the planet Kolob in another star system. His religion is one thing and shouldn’t necessarily preclude him from high office, but his ideology is tainted with that same magical, mystical reasoning and thought. He doesn’t believe his success is based upon his own actions; they are all based upon the will and whim of a physical being living in bliss light-years away from this pale blue dot.
I’m not sure that I can vote a pompous, pious, self-righteous lunatic I don’t know into office. I think I’d rather let the pompous lunatic I already know have another go at it. For the record, I’m still undecided.
I can’t believe this came from Dan Casey.
The little bit of respect I had for you…which I did…has disappeared.
3 people have died in Virginia and its Romney’s fault.= Sick
#52 Yeah, there’s some solid sourcing on that baby, Henry.
Oh please, pp…if on any planet this could have been putatively pinned on Obama, you’d be all over it. Let me say the word for you…”Benghazi”. You guys are incredible hypocrites.
And I think the VA death toll is still 2.
J.M. White, for whatever it’s worth, there are plenty of ridiculous literal beliefs in virtually ALL of the religions. Christians are supposed to profess that the story of Noah’s Ark literally happened. I wouldn’t hold Romney’s religious nuttery against him any more than another candidate who claims to be a Christian. The debt is unforgivable. The two Supreme Court appointments were unfogivable. Yes, Romney sucks and was my close to my last pick of the 2012 Republican slate, but the prospect of $20,000,000,000,000 of still growing debt, a promised forecast of more gun control, and chancing the makeup of the Supreme Court to Obama is not a smart vote, IMO.
Of course, your mileage may vary and you’ll get ten tons more unsolicited input that makes another argument. But, November 6th is coming up quickly and it’s no one’s vote but yours….. Choose WISELY.
@J.M. White – Oh goody! We have an undecided voter joining us Sunday! Fun times.
So John Wilburn, do you believe Romney will not add to the debt? Really? Do you believe he will end the deficit? Really? Who “promised…more gun control”? How do you know either will get to appoint to the SC? You are as flailing in the dark as anyone else and you need to own that. There is no basis in fact for anything you state as such.
The ways that the pathological liars Romney/Ryan are scary, far outweigh any benefit you think may redound from their “win”.
JW, the only “promised forecast of more gun control” I see is from the NRA. Of course, their only evidence is that Obama didn’t do anything regarding gun control during his first term, so obviously he’s up to something!
I read recently how the number of gun dealers has gone way up and firearms sales are extremely high since Obama has been in office…seems to me like it would benefit all the companies and employees involved if Obama is re-elected!
FWIW, I’ve been hunting deer for over 30 years now, and I own more than a dozen guns. The NRA doesn’t represent me very well, so I no longer line their pockets.
Someone else died today Kristen.
And this will be the first time I have typed the word “Benghazi”.
Im sure Obama was in the dark with Lybia, but I think some people under Sec. of State screwed up.
Dan, remember the SRO in Bedford who went got in trouble for the relationship with a student?
Based on your thought process, we need to fire the Superintendent of Bedford Schools.
The Democrats controlled Congress from 2006-2010 and it’s the Republicans fault.
Sure it is.
Good question Leon. Why aren’t you asking why Bushie, Chenie, Rumie, Rovie and a slew of other neocons aren’t serving time for war crimes? The fog of war has lifted. We WERE misled to and taken to war by an administration who knowingly lied about weapons of mass destruction.
Otherwise, let’s just move forward, not look back.
Comment by Cold n P — November 1, 2012 @ 11:05 am
Mold n P…might want to check your reference…we found the WMD’s recently, in Syria. But, shucks-darn…with all the civil war Panetta recently advised they lost track of them again. The WMD’s were, and are,
real. Hope those that have them don’t decide to cross our wide open border. Makes you want to vote for someone who will take security seriously…instead of Golf, parties and fundraisers.
No Henry, the Democrats did not control Congress from 2006-2010. You can lie as often as you like, it will never make it so. Control in the Seante has been a “supermajority” for years now. The Dems did not have a supermajority.
Nothing gets by Leon. Clearly.
“Christians are supposed to profess that the story of Noah’s Ark literally happened. I wouldn’t hold Romney’s religious nuttery against him any more than another candidate who claims to be a Christian. The debt is unforgivable. The two Supreme Court appointments were unfogivable. Yes, Romney sucks and was my close to my last pick of the 2012 Republican slate, but the prospect of $20,000,000,000,000 of still growing debt, a promised forecast of more gun control, and chancing the makeup of the Supreme Court to Obama is not a smart vote, IMO.”
J.W., the “promised forecast of more gun control” is a mythical as the story of Noah’s Ark.
I’m surprised you haven’t realized that. The only who who has “forecast” that is the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre.
Leon,
Syria manufactures its own chemical weapons. The WMD’s Paneta referred to did NOT come from Iraq.
If not for misinformation, you’d have no information at all.
John W: I know about the many religious nutteries out there and I did say that that shouldn’t necessarily preclude him from high office. I do have a problem with Christians acceptance of his religion, however, as it’s purely and simply a bastardization of Protestant Christianity. As such, it should be considered blasphemy by them. One hundred years earlier and Joseph Smith would’ve been considered a heretic and likely executed. Yet here they are, endorsing a man who only three hundred years ago they would’ve been considered an agent of Satan and burned him at the stake. That’s neither here nor there when it comes to how he’d conduct himself in office, of course.
You’re absolutely right, the debt is unforgivable. In my opinion, it was also unavoidable. Several trillion of that debt was deferred from the items that were kept off the books by the previous administration. Another several trillion were needed to pull our economy out of a death spiral. None of that would change under Romney. Deep down, do you honestly think that it would? BOTH sides of the aisle have become addicted to money they don’t have and isn’t theirs to take. And the greed is the problem.
Here are the problems I have with Romney:
- He’s shown a blatant disregard for rules and customs on countless occasions. The debates are one instance (though they were both guilty of it). His tax returns are another. The list is extensive.
- He’s shown that the truth is relative in his world. The things he has distorted and outright lied about during this campaign are outrageous. He doesn’t give apologies when he’s exposed, either; he gives excuses and tries to spin and contort things until the questioner gives up.
To be fair, Obama has exhibited those same traits on occasion. His performance has been more than lacking in many areas. But there are two more things on my list that are frightening in the context of a man who’ll be running this nation:
- He’s shown that he has the spine of a jellyfish. He’s twisted and turned and flipped and flopped so many times and in so many different directions that I don’t know if I’m watching a campaign or a game of Twister. Watch his eyes when he talks. He’s got the look of man who wants you to believe what he’s saying no matter what it is and even if it’s in direct contradiction to something he said previously.
- He’s shown that greed and pride still consume him. Almost all of his plans are geared toward his rich buddies, not the average American citizen. He brags about his wealth, wealth accumulated on the backs of those beneath him, as if it qualifies him to be responsible for the governing of over 330 million people. Not once during this campaign has he thanked or even acknowledged the people who got him to where he is. “I did this” and “I did that” and “I’ll do this” are all I hear. That tells me that he sees us as nothing more than a means to an end. It also tells me that he won’t hesitate to burden us peasants with the real costs of his ambitions.
If I make a list of the pros and cons of each candidate, the “pros” columns are about the same, but the “cons” column is much longer for Romney than it is for Obama. That doesn’t mean that Romney can’t still get my vote; it just means that he’s going to have to really work for it and zero hour is almost here. I don’t trust the real Obama, but I don’t know the real Romney. Mitt’s made damned sure that none of us do.
@66 ,,,”we found the WMD’s recently, in Syria.”
Comment by Leon — November 1, 2012 @ 1:35 pm
Soooo, finally one of the RW Bush supporters admits that there were no WMD in Iraq…no, no, no – they were hidden in Syria all the time! Wow, what a blunder by George W. Bush…
Wingnuttery is still pushing the Benghazi theme…Red State and Faux News are like broken records…followed closely by Free Republic…I am sure the new whipping boy will be Chris Christie though.
Hey Shrillary;
Actually it was Bill Clinton who thought Iraq had WOMD.
Forward to the 2:00 part of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs
Uh, want to try again……
BobH, I watched that video you linked to from 1:54 to 2:54, and you are distorting what Clinton said.
Clinton didn’t say in that section that Saddam had WMDS. He said Saddam had stopped the UN inspectors from verifying that Saddam had given up WMDs. There is a key difference between those two statements, and you’re pretending there’s not. If fact, when the weapons inspectors later resumed their inspections, they found no evidence of WMDs.
Here’s what we also know: Whatever Clinton believed about Saddam and WMDs, whatever intelligence he was privy to, it he was never persuaded that it was strong enough to justify an invasion of that country. And, he never tried to sell the a garbage argument about WMDs in Iraq to the UN, like Bush did.
#74 So Bush never thought there were WMDs in Irag, Bob H? Is that what you’re saying? Really?
Now, which president took us into a needless and expensive war in Iraq? (HINT: It wasn’t the Dem)
@74 “Uh, want to try again……”
Comment by Bob H — November 1, 2012 @ 3:30 pm
Sure Bob H, try again…you have so far failed miserably.
Dan,
You really need to improve your listening, viewing, and comprehension skills:
From that video at the 3:11 mark Clinton says: “In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq POSES now. A rogue state, WITH weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists”.
No need to candy coat it Dan or Gdad, Clinton also believed there was WOMD in Iraq. So did the rest of the world. That’s why inpectors from the UN were sent in for crying out loud.
In between when Clinton made that speach and Bush took office, Hussein’s thumbing his nose and playing hide and seek with the inpectors caused it to become clear that the only way to deal with him was invasion, which Clinton was clearly warning of doing in this video.
Quit rewriting history. The same INTELLIGENCE that Biden trashed over Benghazi but thinks is 100% accurate when it come to Iran having nukes said then that WOMD did exist in Iraq and Hussein threatened that he had them.
It was a bluff that cost him his life but one that had Clinton and Bush convinced, as well as the rest of the world.
#78 I see, Bob H, so the Shrub based his mistaken decision to take us to war on a speech made by Clinton in 1998.
And tell us again when it was that Clinton invaded Iraq.
Sandi Saunders:
62.”So John Wilburn, do you believe Romney will not add to the debt?”
Of course he will. Ron Paul said he would cut 1 trillion out of the budget in the first year and I think he meant it. Romney won’t get that sensible, but why should he? Running against someone who is swiping the nation’s credit card as fast and often as he possibly can, it takes very little fiscal conservatism to provide a sharp contrast.
“Who “promised…more gun control”?”
Obama. Debate 3. Perhaps because you guys didn’t care then or now, Clinton’s infamous “assault weapon ban” that Obama wants to resurrect (and would seek to make permanent, I believe) just goes by like background noise. You all seem oddly oblivious to this.
“How do you know either will get to appoint to the SC?”
Ginsberg is in failing health and four are in their 70s. Scalia is overweight and too old to get away with it. That group is just getting old and I cringe thinking that there are five men that ALL must remain on the court to prevent our Constitution from being desecrated. Romney would pick a significantly better replacement for Ginsberg.
Clinton’s words mean nothing. The president who took us into a war based on lies was George W Bush. End of Story. The only reason he’s not locked up somewhere for his crimes is by the grace of Barrack Obama who decided not to open any inquiries into past decisions by President Bush. Neocons everywhere should thank Obama, not kick him out of office and elect another criminal ready to take us into another war.
Cold n P:
“The only reason he’s [GWB] not locked up somewhere for his crimes is by the grace of Barrack Obama who decided not to open any inquiries into past decisions by President Bush.”
The only reason Eric Holder isn’t locked up for his crimes against our border guards is the “grace” of Obama who is stifling the pending inquiries into past decisions made by Eric Holder.
If the RWers on Dan’s blog missed the dust up on Faux News between Geraldo Rivera and his opinion of Faux News’ obsession with the faux “Benghazi-gate: – here’s a quick summation:
Rivera’s comments:
“the GOP’s “bloodlust” over Benghazigate”
Apparently it rivals Republicans’ “insincere” and “desperate” inquiry into the Obama administration’s deadly Operation Fast and Furious.
Focus on why there wasn’t enough security in Benghazi before the attack, urges Geraldo Rivera on today’s “Fox & Friends.”
Focus on the intelligence failures, Geraldo said.
But stop with the “preposterous” idea that some “fat bureaucrat” could have been watching the Benghazi attack via video feed and could have dispatched forces to save the U.S. personnel who died in the attack.
And Geraldo insists that a full vetting of Benghazi needs to wait till AFTER the election. That view didn’t receive a favorable reception among the Faux Fox “Friends.”
No, Gdad,
Again, it is too bad that your comprehension skills are so lacking.
I said it was the same INTELLIGENCE that Clinton used in making the 1998 speach that Bush relied on in going to war with Iraq. A war, I might add, that the Congress, with many democrats voting affirmative, AUTHORIZED him to do.
Was the war a mistake? Yes, it was. But if you read your history books, so was the war of 1812.
The entire WORLD believed Hussein had WOMD, including Clinton and many democrats in Congress.
“I said it was the same INTELLIGENCE that Clinton used in making the 1998 speach that Bush relied on in going to war with Iraq.”
–Comment by BobH
BobH, except that it was NOT the same intelligence.
Recall, Clinton viewed that “intelligence” as an inadequate reason for an invasion. We know this because he decided not to invade. This is a fact. It was also viewed as an inadequate reason by everybody else in Washington, except for a handful few jaw-grinding neocons who were still angry about President George H.W. Bush’s decision not to “finish the job” when we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait after Saddam invaded it.
Somewhere around that time, those bitter neocons wrote a paper about a full-bore invasion of Iraq and how the deposing of Saddam could be used as a springboard for democracy in the Middle East. Bush I, a former director of the CIA, thought they were crazy, and he was correct.
Because the “intelligence” Clinton was privy to was CLEARLY an inadequate reason for an invasion, it needed to be juiced up a lot. It needed to be sexier and more eyebrow raising and a lot scarier. Vice President Dick Cheney, the consummate Washington insider, understood this. So he proceeded to ensure that happened. He went out and found an Iraqi source, who already had been widely discredited by most other democracies’ intelligence services, who would tell a lot of lies about what was happening in Iraq. He laid it on George Tenant, a Clinton holdover and head of the CIA. And then Cheney and the CIA cherrypicked through Chalabi’s lies and presented them to Colin Powell, and Cheney twisted Powell’s arm into fooling our allies and making a case to the UN.
Repeat, it was not the “same intelligence.” It was a bunch of garbage, later proven to be lies, from a self-interested defector who was a con man.
And it cost thousands of U.S. troops their lives, and tens of thousands of troops their limbs, and it also cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
That the invasion occurred at all is a stain on our history, and no matter how hard you try to make Bill Clinton responsible for that, it will NEVER happen. People know the ugly truth behind why we invaded.
And as usual, you’re full of malarkey!
Dan,
I think it was proven in your other post that the FDA has authority to intervene in these issues (and had investigated but did not follow up). Why you continue to ignore this is beyond me (actually it is not).
If your (unproven) assertion, that “some higher up in the administration” negated consequences, I agree we should know “who, why, etc…”.
I would imagine you might also agree that Deval Patrick would have the same ability to “shut them down” that you suggest that Romney did not use. He could have used (whatever authority you suggest) at any time in his administration; do you place any blame on him? Or does he get the same “free ride” as the FDA?
This is not a matter of deregulation, as the FDA had full authority when these products moved from “designer” to “broad market”. It seems there were plenty of regulations but the state and fed’s did not follow up to ensure proper adherence.
I seems the democrat’s MO of blaming the “last republican” for all that is bad has successfully “trickled down” to all the minions.
Shrill,
Your quoting of something from “thinkprogress” without your actually “thinking” for yourself enough to investigate the facts, laws and regulations further proves a great deal about your process.
Shrill,
Re: 4:51,
It is obvious to any thinking person that there was not enough security before the attack.
We know there was a “live feed” to the WH situation room during the attack.
Do you believe the simple questions; was obama overseeing what happened and what decisions did he make? If not, why not… and who was making decisions? Sould be so controversial that they need to be hidden for two months until after an election?
In your opinion, is this how an American democracy should work?
These are questions that any “leader” should immediately able to answer.
“That sure is a strange world you live in, Chuck.”
I know it seems strange to you Dan. It’s called reality and is clearly something you’re not familiar with. Your hypothetical trial complete with what I would think and do is cute and convenient for you I’m sure. It is also eerily similar to the democrats presidential campaign this year. Suggest a circumstance and attribute a hypothetical response from Romney, then assail him for your supposition or for changing positions when he doesn’t do what you said he would do.
However, here in reality, there are several problems with your latest little straw man argument against Romney. You want everyone to believe the meningitis contamination is the fault of deregulation from Romney’s time as governor, a term that ended about six years ago. First, can you offer any proof or plausible connection between the regulations that you say were abandoned and this contamination? Do you have any proof besides accusations that had the regulations been left in place, the subsequent controls would have actually discovered this contamination? I mean contaminated food still goes into circulation despite the best efforts and regulations of the FDA and the Departments of Commerce and Agriculture. Are those instances Obama’s fault? This is the logic you are using against Romney, so certainly it must also apply at the federal level.
Second, here in reality, it has been six years since Romney was Governor. It has been six years since he cruelly and maliciously dismantled the exalted regulations you now mourn. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the current Governor of Massachusetts a democrat who is presently in his second term? And again, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t both houses of the Massachusetts legislature controlled by democrats? If all of you wise democrats are so certain of the value of these regs and equally sure of how deregulation is a recipe for certain disaster, why haven’t the democrats controlling the government in Massachusetts reinstituted the needed regulations? Is it because if the impotency of democrats that I was referring to the other day? I mean they control both legislative houses and the executive mansion and still can’t get it done. Or is it simply easier to seize on any bad thing and blame it on the other guy for political gain?
Either way, surely after this the vaunted democrats will take steps to fix this issue. I mean now the whole country knows that, according good dems like yourself, this whole outbreak could have been prevented had the right regs been in place. If the dems in power in Massachusetts now don’t take immediate steps to fix this, are they not being criminally derelict in failing to execute the duties of their respective offices?
John Wilburn: “Of course he will. Ron Paul said he would cut 1 trillion out of the budget in the first year and I think he meant it. Romney won’t get that sensible, but why should he? Running against someone who is swiping the nation’s credit card as fast and often as he possibly can, it takes very little fiscal conservatism to provide a sharp contrast.”
Do you have any clue what it would do to the national economy if Ron Paul were elected and fulfilled that promise? We’d be right back in recession. Revenues would plummet. The last thing you want to do in the middle of a fragile recovery is slash government spending.
Once upon a time, conservatives had some sense. The inmates are running the lunatic asylum now, though.
By the way, Obama cut the deficit that Bush left him by $300 billion. That’s a pretty good start. If Republicans would start cooperating on the economy instead of shutting down every proposal put forward, we might get more revenue flowing in to decrease the deficit any further.
Good post, Dan C. Never forget what a crime the Iraq war was. It was unnecessary, unpaid for and unprovoked. It took our attention and resources away from Afghanistan, which is why we’re still there and why the Taliban is, too.
And Clinton had nothing to do with it.
Chuck, you’re right in this respect: There is no way of knowing, in the 6 years since Romney has been governor, or during the 4 years of his term, how many patients have been exposed to potentially tainted medicine from that place. There is no way of know if others were sickened by injectables that place prepared, but were unattributed to the Massachusetts pharmacy.
Recall, the first guy who died in this spate of 28 deaths was initially deemed to have been the victim of West Nile virus.
We don’t know, but there may be other deaths that will be attributed to these medicines, as investigations continue.
The Romney administration had a chance to shut this place down, AFTER one man succumbed to meningitis linked to a tainted NECC back-pain steroids — the same steroid linked to the recent outbreak. NECC paid a hefty settlement in a lawsuit based on the death,
The proposed action (a license suspension) by the state Board of Pharmacy in 2004 would have, by NECC’s lawyers account, been fatal to NEEC’s business. But the company appealed, and the Board of Pharmacy under Mitt Romney later decided to ultimately do little. It was business as usual for NECC.
And now the death toll continues to grow.
#84 Bob H, it was NOT the same intelligence. But at least you agree the war was a mistake.
Even if my comprehension skills are a little lacking sometimes, at least I’ve got an advantage on you in that I’m not just flat out wrong so much.
And Dan, still you seem to have no answer for why the democrats, who have been in control for at least half a decade since then have done nothing about it. I know you guys are desperately doing anything necessary to win an election, but you really should try to remember that anytime you point a finger, four more are pointed back at you.
No Dan,
Clinton decided not to invade because he wanted to give the inspection process more time and let that play itself out. He knew he was near the end of his term and he was more concerned about his legacy at that time of his presidency (being only the 2nd person ever impeached). He was clearly talking that invasion was the next step.
First you say that Clinton didn’t say Iraq had weapons of mass destruction after alleging to view the video and then when I point out exactly where he said it and what he exactly said, then you try some other revisionist theology.
No sir, it is YOU who are full of malarkey.
Pretty soon, BobH will be claiming that Clinton invaded Iraq!