Guest post: 18 reasons for Dems to celebrate the elections
Grafic by Dan
Note from Dan: Republicans scored some victories in Tuesday’s election. They managed to hang onto the House of Representatives, they picked up some governor’s seats, and they flipped two states (North Carolina and Indiana) from Obama’s 2008 win column. Also, Tea Party-favorite Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minnesota, eked out a win to save her House seat from a strong challenger. But for the most part, it was a big, big night for Democrats and progressives. Our own regular Shrillary recounts the ways.
By ‘Shrillary’
Great news for Democrats – and democracy – the short list [long post] of races you might not have followed:
☻Every top elected seat in New Hampshire – the Governorship, two House seats, two Senate seats are now held by women.
☻Minnesotans booted many of the 2010′s teabagger contingents out of office, and the MN Senate and House are now both back in Democratic hands;
☻Colorado Democrats have retaken control of the Colorado House of Representatives and Democrats control the Colorado state Senate and the governor’s office;
☻In PA Democrats won three of the five state senate seats;
☻In VA Democrats won the two US Senate seats;
☻In MA Senator-elect Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) defeated Scott Brown (R);
☻In Missouri, Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill defeated the challenge by Representative Todd Akin, a tea party candidate;
☻In Florida, Allen West, Republican and tea party candidate, lost his reelection bid to Democratic challenger Patrick Murphy;
☻Former Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson took back his House seat winning over his Republican challenger Todd Long;
☻Incumbent Rep. Joe Walsh of Illinois, a tea party Republican was defeated by his Democratic challenger Tammy Duckworth the former Veterans Affairs Administration official and U.S. Army National Guard Reserve veteran;
☻Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand’s won in a landslide victory over Republican Wendy Long winning by receiving 72% of the vote, the largest percentage of the vote in New York state history;
☻Democratic Rep. Jim Matheson, representing Utah’s 2nd congressional district defeated Republican Mia Love;
☻ Voters in Colorado and Washington made their states the first to legalize marijuana for recreational use;
☻Maryland voters endorsed a ballot measure allowing in-state tuition at public colleges for illegal immigrants;
☻California voters decisively approved a ballot measure on Tuesday that will raise taxes by $6 billion annually over seven years;
☻Minnesota residents defeated an amendment that would have defined marriage as being between a man and woman in the state’s constitution;
☻Same-sex marriage laws were upheld by voters in Maryland and Maine.
☻Democrats made gains to their majority in the US Senate, although the House continues to be divided – teabaggery is steadily being diluted with the losses of Akin, Walsh, Mourdock, and West.
Wonderful day to be a proud American and Democrat.
November 7, 2012 - 12:37 PM
It will be interesting to see how the Feds handle the recreational use of pot. Continue to turn a blind eye, or start prosecuting under federal law? Certainly a test of states’ rights.
This will even change how employers drug test as it will no longer be an illegal drug. I guess they could still test for being “high” on the job, similar to alcohol. Opinions welcome.
I was remiss in also celebrating at least 19 women who are now US Senators with one more possible…too close to call [Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota]. The most women ever seated in the Senate,
I am a proud American Democrat! Thanks Hillary.
Shrillary, I was thrilled about that too. A great night for women.
I’m hopeful for the laws passed in Colorado and Washington. It’s certainly time to stop the War on Drugs. It’s an abject failure and has cost American taxpayers billions of dollars in unneeded and wasteful spending. Legalize it and let’s move it.
Now we need to petition Harry Reid and the Senate to encourage changes in the new rules to be adopted when the Senate reorganizes in January to lower the threshold for breaking a filibuster, eliminate secret holds, and reqwuire anyone who wishes to filibuster to keep the Senate in session and physically remain on the floor and do it the old fashioned way. That may be the only way to stop McConnell and the Republicans from their obstructionism.
“It will be interesting to see how the Feds handle the recreational use of pot. Continue to turn a blind eye, or start prosecuting under federal law? Certainly a test of states’ rights.”
Unfortunately, the Feds aren’t turning a blind eye to marijuana dispensaries, as busts are up exponentially under the Obama administration as compared to the Bush administration. Right now, states are losing the battle to the Feds regarding pot, and I don’t see it changing anytime soon, unfortunately.
Democratic candidate Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota has become the 20th woman in the senate as she has finally been declared the winner!
Me too Sandi!
It will be interesting to see how the feds handle the continuing investigation of Las Vegas Sands Corp., and potentially one of its key executives, for laundering $185 million from alleged drug dealers and convicted crooks.
Incidentally, it’s CEO is Shel Adelson, who personally invested $34 million in Romney’s election.
Billionaire Sheldon Adelson Says He Might Give $100M To Newt Gingrich Or Other Republican
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2012/02/21/billionaire-sheldon-adelson-says-he-might-give-100m-to-newt-gingrich-or-other-republican/
I guess he had lots of money he had to redirect somewhere…
@8: Heitkamp wins in a red state with a heavily male working class electorate! 20 female senators! So, me too, you guys (so to speak)
Alan Grayson’s back, because every party needs a minor lunatic to divert the opposition’s attention.
Re: common sense treatment of pot, I would think that GOTP operatives of the Rovian variety are already seeing this as a wedge issue that they can use to motivate their base to the polls in the future. They’ll see it as less risky than abortion or gay rights, but more substantial than flag burning. I expect we’ll hear early signals in that direction very soon.
Shrillary = fire cracker <3
It will be interesting to see the truth of Bengahzi…4 dead Americans who asked the Regime for help.
“Re: common sense treatment of pot, I would think that GOTP operatives of the Rovian variety are already seeing this as a wedge issue that they can use to motivate their base to the polls in the future. They’ll see it as less risky than abortion or gay rights, but more substantial than flag burning. I expect we’ll hear early signals in that direction very soon.”
Warren, no way. A lot of their base started smoking the stuff in the 1960s/70s and many of them still do.
In addition to great strides for women in general, this election also produced the 1st disabled woman elected to Congress (Tammy Duckworth-IL), the first openly gay Senator (Tammy Baldwin-WI), and the first Asian-American woman as well as the first Buddhist Senator (Mazie Hirono-HI).
#16: Dan, some of the base and at least one of the Idaho Senate delegation have had gay sex. Did that stop them from using that as a wedge issue?
Laura,
I think America was long-ago ready for the first disabled woman in Congress & the first openly gay senator — although some would argue Larry Craig got there first. (Is he still denying it?)
As for the first Buddhist senator, I’m not so sure.
If her prayers ever make it into the Congressional Record, it’s gonna drive some folks absolutely wild, and not in a good way.
Jack,
The Benghazi issue needs to be settled more for the sake of our military than anything else. Our people need to believe that if they are in “harm’s way” they will be protected. No matter where the truth leads I hope it comes forth.
You’re incorrect,mike-o. There are many situations in which our people know perfectly well that if things go south, they’re on their own. Benghazi is not a ‘military’ issue. The security on hand were former SEALS under contract, not active duty. There’s nothing to suggest that the situation could or should have been handled any differently. It’s over.
Dan@5:51
And then there’s Lindsay Graham!
And today the DOW dropped 313 points. Good reason to celebrate, huh? Well, if you don’t have any money in the stock market, I guess it doesn’t matter to you.
My guess is Sheldon Adelson will be heading for Zimbabwe.
That would be a miracle Mike O. After the Beirut Marine barracks went unavenged and the Iraq vanity War so many of our treasure were maimed and killed fighting, I think the military will need more than even President Obama can deliver to “believe that if they are in “harm’s way” they will be protected”. Since this was a CIA operation, we all know we will never have “the truth”.
(o\ ! /o):
23.”And today the DOW dropped 313 points.”
The market drops every time Obama speaks. If I recall correctly, it has dropped significantly the day after each of his state of the union addresses too.
Bug, welcome back! I’m sure you’re proud that Fla went for Obama.
As you know, a 2 percent drop in the DOW on any single day is worthy of note, if not great worry. A 2 percent drop in the DOW on 5 or more days in a row is worthy of worry. And so is a huge plunge like we had in 2008, before Obama was elected or inaugurated. Thank goodness it has rebounded back since then!
My question to you is this: back in those days in the fall of 2008, were you going on blogs and posting how awful that was, back then? And if so, who (if anyone) were you blaming?
Alfred:
“This will even change how employers drug test as it will no longer be an illegal drug. I guess they could still test for being “high” on the job, similar to alcohol. Opinions welcome.”
I think it should be just like alcohol. Legal to use, but an employer can require that an employee not be under the influence while at work.
The rightwing blamed Obama for the drop at the end of 2008, of course. Any fool could see that the mere fact of him being ahead in the polls drove the market down. And then when he was elected, the bottom really fell out.
The bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the near-collapse of the global financial system obviously had nothing to do with it.
Just as obviously, today’s result could only be about the election and have nothing to do with the re-emergence of the Eurocrisis. I mean, it’s just simple causation. A then B MUST mean that A caused B. Right? It’s simple logic.
With the emphasis, of course, on simple.
(Oh, and don’t mention that the stock market recovered completely during Obama’s first term. You know the right-wing and reality don’t get along very well.)
The housing bubble started with legislation dating back to the mid 90s. Unfortunately, no one stopped it nor did anything to address it then nor along the way. It was sort of ignored, kind of like our national debt (and that bubble will crash one day too). It was not coincidence that the timing of the burst and subsequent crash happened just before the presidential election.
I wasn’t really going on blogs back then, but it was awful and I did not hesitate to say so. Who did I blame? There was plenty to go around. People on both sides of the aisles and in many industries. The root cause was pure greed. It should not have been a shock to anyone that when credit is handed out like candy at halloween to people who can’t afford it that the ride will end. Housing values are a function of supply and demand in any given market. Again, no shock that when the market is flooded with foreclosures the values sink across the board.
Fortunately, I did not panic and I rode it out. I actually put money in when everyone else was taking it out. It may sound oversimplified, but the old addage “buy low, sell high” is actually that simple. When the herd is buying, you should sell. When the herd is selling, you should buy. I tend to maintain a balance…never put more in than you are willing to lose.
As for the current dilemma, the draw back the day after the election is more of a sentiment than a trend based on economic indicators. It is an overall lack of confidence of the people holding the investments (i.e. the people who put money into companies, which equates to capital investments for businesses to grow) that the environment will be favorable for those investments to perform. Capital availability drives growth, expansion, and jobs. I know this because I have lived it every day as a CFO in a very capital demanding industry.
Perhaps today was simply an emotional reaction, and I hope that is the case. One day does not make a trend, but if people foresee capital gains being taxed at a higher rate, there will be more investment liquidation occuring between now and the end of the year to realize those gains at a lower tax rate. I know this because I am pondering those same investment income and tax strategies. If it happens, that will drive down the market even more. Again, less capital availability.
So, in the end, the market is down overall but healthcare stocks skyrocketed today (which I am in the healthcare industry, so personally not a bad thing). That is, of course, until the general population figures out the healthcare reform doesn’t have additional funding, so hospitals and physicians will be taking care of many more people for the same total pay (which drives up costs due to increased volumes for the same reimbursement). The government will just spread the current spend over more people. With increases in labor costs, drugs, technology, and facilities you will see small local hospitals closing and aging physicians hanging it up with no one to fill their place. With the aging babyboomers, there will be an increased demand for physicians and a shrinking supply. And the physicians left will be asked to work longer and harder for the same pay and then pay higher taxes on it. Not much of an incentive for people to choose that field, especially Primary Care where the need will be the greatest. Down the road, people will have to drive to the nearest large metro area for basic and emergent healthcare. If you live in one of those metro places, good for you…except the wait to get in to see your physician will quadruple or more.
What does all of this mean? What will happen over the next four years? Nothing. Too much bipartisan baggage to accomplish anything meaningful. So 4 years from now the BS will again fly but the debt will be 25 Trillion and unemployment will be about the same. Billions of dollars spent on an election by both sides and we have nothing to show for it. Sounds like a great reason to celebrate.
By the way, I hope and pray that I am wrong…but after 25+ years of being a financial executive and riding out the cyclical patterns both personally and professionally there is nothing pointing to a sudden cosmic shift in the dynamics of macroeconomics. We have an uphill road to climb and there’s increasingly more people riding in the cart than pulling it.
Wall Street went long on Romney..we are seeing in the first
day realignment . Call it going to plan “B”
The money men dumped a huge amount of money into the Rove machine
just to come up with empty pockets and wet eye sockets.
..For oil and gas companies..expect a higher tax rate (shift the money)
The Pentagon was already expecting a cut in resources for military
spending. This makes it more certain.
The only question is how soon and how deep?
Major hospital stocks went up about 10 percent today..on anticipation of newly insured patients.
Just money moving around the table..its ok with me if there are a few less war ships , bayonnets, or horses. We can buy a lot of vials of medicine for kids with those funds.
From Reuters; Karl Rove’s really bad night.
@27: Cigarettes are not illegal either, yet employers are currently free not to hire smokers. Given that, I doubt it will change employer “drug free workplace” policies.
Employers are also currently free to have Social Media Policies and regularly mine the internet to screen prospective as well as current employee activity. If a person posts something that is not consistent with company policy, they can choose to not hire or to even fire because of it. Like the teacher who was fired for posting a picture of herself on MyFace legally consuming an alcoholic beverage while on her personal vacation time. The employer said it wasn’t consistent with their image and they won. Your rights are only guaranteed from the government, not your employer.
#13. Excellent foresight Warren!
#31. When Great Britain decided on Medicare for all in the 70’s, they had to train thousands of new doctors to cover the load. Young applicants were tested and if accepted in the programs, then after free medical school they owed 10 years of service to the nation at a fixed income (equaling 100k annual in U.S.). Plenty of intelligent kids jumped at the chance and the rest is history. Problem solved, health care costs halved overall, and life spans increased by a couple of years.
We could do the same thing here if the a$$holes in Congress would simply…. Oh, wait a minute… my idea is dependent on Congress, the slave overseers for our billionaire masters…. you might be right, we’re probably screwed. But it’s better than no care at all for 50,000,000 equal human beings. Shame on the greedy billionaires of the United States who have tried to stop reforms they will have to pay for. No one is worth 200,000 times a year more than their peers who are perishing for want of health care… Insult to injury, they made their fortunes with the help of all of us.
It couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy, Art.
(o\ ! /o):
“The root cause was pure greed. It should not have been a shock to anyone that when credit is handed out like candy at halloween to people who can’t afford it that the ride will end.”
Let’s not fail to recognize the lack of discipline on the part of people who took loans for more than they could afford. That would have prevented all of it. Without a demand that never should have been, no one would have made the loans in the first place. We’ve all received obscene credit card offers, but don’t take them and run them up, becuase we know they have to be repaid.
Short of social responsibility, but a compliment to it, would be a private secondary market; that would find the sweet spot. Too little down and to low an interest rate, they’ll lose money when there are foreclosures. Too much down and too high an interest rate, they won’t be competitive.
“Like the teacher who was fired for posting a picture of herself on MyFace legally consuming an alcoholic beverage while on her personal vacation time.”
Fine, but it’s only fair to harvest that from the part of the site open to the public. I’ve heard of employers who actually want your passwords to see your private postings. That is wrong.
“Your rights are only guaranteed from the government, not your employer.”
And your rights are only given by your creator, not your government.
to the post at 11:00 p.m. last night,
you provided a multitude of facts and good observations regarding today’s reality, while most others on this blog are riding high on emotion. As they do, their collective light bulb grows dimmer, ’cause, you see, money grows on trees.
Another influential element of the financial reality of today is what’s going on in Europe….which is several decades further along the road along which “money-growing” trees grow. I think that the market move yesterday was at least in part due to Europe’s Central Bank concerns about Europe’s high and getting higher unemployment…and the realization that Germany could be …next.
What’s that sound? I think I hear a fiddle playing. And I’m not watching Deliverance.
@37. I agree 100%.
@35. Being in healthcare finance, it isn’t “no healthcare” for 50,000,000. The facility I operate donates over 14 MILLION dollars per MONTH in free care. All of us are paying for that in terms of higher healthcare premiums and healthcare costs. I personally deal with these situations daily. So to some degree we are already paying for it. If it results in shifting primary care out of the ER and to more appropriate levels of care then that would be an improvement. The problems is current laws require ERs to medically evaluate patients…physicians can choose to see or not see whatever patients they want. That may actually lead to more people seeking primary care in ERs. That drives up costs.
“you provided a multitude of facts and good observations regarding today’s reality, while most others on this blog are riding high on emotion. As they do, their collective light bulb grows dimmer, ’cause, you see, money grows on trees.”
Frank,
I don’t know if it was you or someone else here, but before the election several RWers on this blog adamantly made the point that the polls were wrong and that Obama was not in the lead. Another Chuck was one of them. This widespread theory in certain conservative circles held that the pollsters were asking more Democrats than Republicans who they planned to vote for in the election (this was true) and that as a result the polls were tilting the results toward Obama, and that was an error.
Around that time, the pollsters were acknowledging sampling 5-7 percent more Democratic voters than Republicans in the polls. The pollsters said that was a turnout model based on the 2008 election.
And people on here such as matt tried to argue that that was wrong because:
1) Democrats and Republicans were roughly equal in number, or perhaps there were more slightly more Republicans; and
2) Republicans were vastly more enthused than Democrats in this election, so the assumption that a larger proportion of Dems would vote this time around was laughable.
And these assumptions were the “proof” they cited in discounting the polls.
BUT … The pollsters’s assumptions were correct, the critics’ assumptions were incorrect. Dem voters outweighed GOP voters by 6 percent in the 2012 election. And for the most part the polls were pretty good predictors of the election, within their limitations (margin of error).
The moderates and liberals here were the voices of reason with regard to this question. They were the ones dealing with reality. The critics were the ones NOT dealing with reality.
And that’s true for most debates we get into here.
“And your rights are only given by your creator, not your government.”
Then I guess we don’t have to worry about Obama taking the guns, because God won’t let him.
@39- Even Chris(t) Matthews apologized for not totally believing the polling data and then praised and commended them on their work.
#40 This election is probably the last time I’ll pay even a tiny amount of attention to Repubs whining that pollsters skew the results.
I do think, however, that right wingers aren’t paying enough attention to one of the root causes of the loss — that scary New Black Panther guy opening the door for women in Philly. I think he must have kept whole piles of people away from the polls across the nation. We need to ban people like that.
“@35. Being in healthcare finance, it isn’t “no healthcare” for 50,000,000. The facility I operate donates over 14 MILLION dollars per MONTH in free care. All of us are paying for that in terms of higher healthcare premiums and healthcare costs. I personally deal with these situations daily. So to some degree we are already paying for it. If it results in shifting primary care out of the ER and to more appropriate levels of care then that would be an improvement. The problems is current laws require ERs to medically evaluate patients…physicians can choose to see or not see whatever patients they want. That may actually lead to more people seeking primary care in ERs. That drives up costs.”
Bug, 2 questions:
1) what percent of that $14 million is in the ER?
2) And how much per month in free care does the nearest not-for-profit hospital perform?
Maybe Bug and Frank need desperately to get over themselves in explaining what they perceive others have missed or were unaware of. The ignorance of the average right winger is certainly nothing to be bragging about so stop throwing stones. We recall plenty of idiocy posted here.
I dare say that very few people in this country are unaware of the consequences we will have to pay for the folly of the (wealth protecting and inducing) politicians as those chickens come home to roost. We voted for the candidate most likely to see the sacrifice be fairly distributed, but we are not even slightly unaware of the hardships ahead. We will do what people of this nation have done for over 200 years. Get through it and try to be honest about it. You should try it.
If the costs are being pieced out among the other patients, it’s not a “donation”.
Yes indeed, the “root cause was pure greed”! Absolutely. Markets, people, the financial industry, housing and the real estate industry were all doing fine with the system and regulations we had in place since The Great Depression era. Then someone got the bright idea to allow them all to cavort, join cahoots and create instruments of mass financial destruction so they could make even more money and away they went. Mortgage sharks on every corner, credit default swaps, derivatives and betting with and simultaneously against your own house. You may let yourself and the leaders off the hook by blaming the poor schmuck who wanted a nice house and saw the realtor, appraiser, inspector and financial entity all agreeing that “yes, you can!” but the truth is not that simple. And you know that too!
hey dano,
your response to what I wrote to the post at 11:00 p.m. last night is, well, pathetic. In addition to commenting to the poster that I agreed with his/her facts and observations, I also made mention to Europe…you know, the place most libs on this blog repeatedly say or imply we should follow regarding national healthcare. Well, we’re now gonna do just that. And, we all know, even you libs, that there’s nothing “affordable” about the aca.
your post to me prattled on, and on, and on, about what? Polls! Neither I, nor the post I was responding to ever mentioned….polls! We discussed the financial circumstances we find ourselves in. We made no mention of libs, the election, nor …polls.
Just keep your eye on Europe, dano, ’cause that’s what we now are…except they’re just a little ahead of us, is all.
Hey dano, I have an idea! Maybe you libs can drum up a little competitive spirt, and go about “out-Europing”…Europe. That way, we’ll catch up to them quicker, you see…
Frank, I didn’t make the point clearly enough. My apologies. Let’s try again:
You and the others are so wrong about so many things, including your pre-election observations of the polls, that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe anything you write.
Clear enough now?
hey dano, you didn’t make ANY point.
Now, the point you DO make is that you’ll ignore Europe. Hmm, that’s a good strategery.
Yep, ignorance is bliss…so believe’s ol’ dano.
Frank, may I just tell you how truly pathetic it is for YOU to be calling anyone, or anything else, “pathetic”? Thanks for letting me clear that up. You do not HAVE any credibility. You chose to lie and distort and make things up and now you have nothing to stand on. That is why Romney lost and why you should consider another hobby.
Frank, the point I was making is that any point you make is not necessarily worth paying attention to, because usually you have no idea what you’re writing about.
gee, dano,
This is fun! Now, you are making the point that …you can’t follow a train of thought.
hey sandi, where are ya?
ol’ dano needs you and your tattoo to ride in here to rescue him.
Frank, Frank, Frank…Europe now? Have you forgotten all about Benghazi?
Yep, typical. Ol’ Dano was FOR the polls, until he was AGAINST the polls. Then, once they showed his guy winning, he was FOR the polls again. Your typical flip-floppy lib at his best.
Oh, and Dano, I don’t think I would be throwing around any insults to others about their comments not being worthy of your attention. Your floundering company has to drive around a small city in southwest Va and throw your tripe into people’s driveways and hand your drivel out for free at shopping centers to get anyone to pay attention to your BS. It’s sad and pathetic, dude.
A majority is either in the ER or originates there and leads to inpatient and outpatient costs as continuum of care. As for not-for-profits I have worked in both. Based on publicly available data, our uninsured costs as a percentage of our total runs higher. The only difference is whether taxes are paid or not. The not-for-profits I worked for have all had much larger margins. Margins are necessary to fund capital, expansions, and new services. They just don’t have to jump over a tax burden. There’s a huge tax revenue source right there!
Sandy, you’re obviously an expert in finance, healthcare, and macroeconomics. Have you thought of applying for Federal Reserve Chair? CMS Director? Perhaps I need to send you the National Award I received from The Wall Street Journal in 1990 for my Macroeconomic Thesis that happened to be during the then worst stock market crash since the great depression.
Bug
Don’t for-profit hospitals usually stabilize nonpayers in the ER and then transfer them to nonprofits? I’m not being critical of that; I just thought it was the typical practice.
Yes, I would indeed need to see verification of any such thing Symbols.
And Symbols, when a blind squirrel finds a nut, they do not make him king of the forest either.
@59. Dan, after 22 plus years in 5 hospitals in 4 states for and not for profit, the answer is no. The facility I am at now is a large tertiary care with open heart, trauma, neurosurgery, extensive ortho, etc. We are the hospital that receives a majority of the transfers, not sends them out.
My last facility in Virginia actually saw a higher percentage of uninsured than our NFP competitor. That was publicly reported data. Federal EMTALA laws prevent patient dumping. That applies across the board.
@61. Looking at it now on my credenza. I’ll be glad to bring it with me over Thanksgiving and even let you hold it. The scholarship and free subscription to TWSJ are both long gone as is the McGladry & Pullen Accounting Scolarship. I do have the Accounring Award from my college on the wall for the Accounting major with the highest GPA and my Magna Cum Laude degree. Want me to bring those too? I imagine our time together would be a hoot.
@ #40 Most of those very expensive ER visits wouldn’t happen if the poor could afford regular check-ups, screening, counseling, medicines, early treatments, etc. Being poor forces them to wait until the illness has grown to be catastrophic, or until they keel over, then get rushed in at 10 times the cost.
We should do the same thing with dentistry, by the way. Most poor people simply wait until the tooth is too painful to bear, then have it pulled.
It’s a very sad thing when society allows an employer to make 200,000 more per year than you do, which is exactly the case for minimum wage workers versus the billionaire stockholders who own the various companies.
@64. Actually, most of these visits are for basic primary care (cold, respiratory infections, ear infections, tooth aches) and a large nuber of drug seekers. Spend some time in your local ER and you will be astonshed at the actuality.
@65. This is tedious… If the ER is so abused, then why stop health care reforms?
Meanwhile, I’ve been to ER without health coverage. I stalled 6 weeks, hoping things might somehow get better, until I thought I might die and caved in. And I’ve had a fractured heal for 2 years now. It’s so painful I can barely walk, but I don’t have the money to even have it looked at. Then there was my wife’s medical bills… $102,000 JUST FOR THE ROOM!
As far as I’m concerned, health care reform (Medicare for all ages) is long overdue in the U.S. We are the only modern nation without it, by the way. It’s only fair when some citizens make 200,000 times more money per year (with our help). And if you think people are entitled to earn that much more money when we have homeless people…
I’m not against actual healthCARE reform…what this amounts to is healthPAYMENT reform. Two completely different things. They left out how to pay for actual care. I’ve seen the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid payments already. I’ve personally witnessed hospitals close. And we’re not even knee deep in this water yet.
Where I live now we have a large homeless population. I have to deal with the reality of it every day. A vast majority of these people made a series of life decisions regarding drugs and crime that lead them to where they are today. Conscious decisions in a free country to make choices. I made conscious decisions to work in construction and mills at a young age, get an education while I worked, and make huge personal sacrifices to have a career and family. I’m not entitled to make X amount of dollars, I’ve earned it. It is called earning a living for a reason. It is freedom in the land of opportunity…there are no limits placed on what you can accomplish. Just like in school. I worked hard and earned my grades. Those who chose to skip class, not do homework, and not study made poor grades. Is it fair to take points from those who worked hard and give them to the people who didn’t? Should everyone in the class make a C regardless of their work or scores? If that was the case, why would the studious folks continue to bust their butts?
What motivated me was my parents never let me and my sisters forget that they grew up literally dirt poor in the back country hills of Alleghany County. They took us there often to see what they started with. No electricity or plumbing, harsh home lives, parents dying when they were young, and no entitlement programs or assistance available. They had to make their own opportunities. They’re modest and conservative hard working middle class people that drug themselves out of those hills of poverty and made it happen as a nurse and an electrician. There were no entitlements available to them…they worked nights and went to school days and paid for it themselves. The thing about opportunity is a person actually has to act in order to make it a reality…it doesn’t just happen, it takes effort and hard work.
I have family members on the other side of the coin also who have chosen to do drugs, commit crimes, now have a record, have a resume of jobs lost due to behavior and poor decisions who now choose not to work or can’t get hired due to their record. We get to pay for those choices while they continue to make them. They had opportunities handed to them (college paid for upfront, assistance from state programs for jobs and school) and they chose to walk away from them. Now some of them are paying the price of their years of drugs with healthcare issues that we get to pay for. That seems like a system that is destined to fail when more and more people make these choices than you have people working hard to pay for it.
Now there are always exceptions, and I do believe that the programs should be there as a safety net to bridge people through hard times. But when the safety net becomes a hamock, there’s a problem.
You said: “And we’re not even knee deep in this water yet.” I agree, which is why I cited what Great Britain did…we need to train an army of doctors (and costs will actually go way down in the years following).
As for your many excellent points about bad choices made, the fact remains: Whatever you give the worst of society (criminals) is by definition the bare minimum for every citizen… And the incarcerated get health and dental care.
Moreover, you are forgetting the “family” principle of mankind… To use a metaphor, even a useless teenager at least gets meals, a place to sleep, and basic health care.
You concluded with this statement: “But when the safety net becomes a hammock, there’s a problem.” Absolutely true, but not the point. Were talking about nearly 3 million medical bankruptcies a year. We’re talking about 50 million citizens dying years earlier just because they can’t afford routine care. That’s bullshit when some citizens are making billions and paying a lower tax rate than janitors.
It’s time to tax the rich at the old 90% tax rate we once had! I would love to have the problem of only keeping 100 million a year of the billion I made. But they bought the government and we are their equipment now. A$$holes.
So I say piss on the billionaires, some of whom earn 200,000 times more money per year than their minimum wage employees… Were it 10,000 BC and one of us insisted on having 200,000 times more food than our peers, some of whom were starving, we would get dragged out of our cave and beaten to death. And rightly so, being unfit for this world, or the next.
Kristen:
“Then I guess we don’t have to worry about Obama taking the guns, because God won’t let him.”
The government denies rights everyday. The Constitution credits our “Creator” with our rights, but I’ll leave it to you decide whether that is a protestant God, other god, or nature itself.
(o\ ! /o):
“Sandy, you’re obviously an expert in finance, healthcare, and macroeconomics.”
You’re selling Sandi short; she is an expert in practically everything.
.
As an accountant who did tax return preparation at several CPA firms in the 90s for individuals and corporations alike (not to mention being a working stiff myself), I would personally support a flat tax rate system. Now realize that this would simplify the tax code to a degree that tax return preparers and IRS workers would lose a ton of jobs as a result, but there would be government cost savings in making it a flat amount from the first cent across the board. Simplify the code and it takes far less people to execute. The only problem I would foresee is that there are inherent risks with being entrepreneurial. If you are taking the risks to create a company, which pays taxes, creates jobs, and drives economic growth (like so many small businesses do), there needs to be some concession to risk and reward or no one would put up initial venture capital. Far more new businesses that are started fail than succeed. There have to be properly aligned economic incentives to take those risks. Having been on many economic development boards, we struggled and competed with other localities in offering concessions to recruit businesses and jobs to certain areas. The potential rewards need to equate to the potential risk or growth will stop.
JohnW, the Dec of Independence mentions a “creator” who endowed “us” ( “us” in this context being white make landowners) with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Poetic, but the Dec of Independence has no legal standing.
If you look at the wide variety of what are considered “rights” around the world, it seems that what rights we get depends on how our government labels them.
You are assuming I would like to meet you Symbols, and you are wrong. Not if you and your awards came with gold bars as gifts. Your litany of importance only dims your standing IMO, an educated person who thinks like a right winger is sadder than any trailer trash that plants a Romney sign.
John Wilburn, if you live long enough, you too will have a better BS detector. Your antenna is finely tuned but only has one sensor. Broaden your horizons.
Congratulations, Shrilly. You and your Democrat chums have just guaranteed four more years of massive debt, fewer opportunities and economic decline. Do you think 0bama is going to magically change course now?? Do you think he’s going to stop spending? Reduce the deficit? Create jobs?
The bright spot in all this is you people get to live with it too.
Sandi:
“John Wilburn, if you live long enough, you too will have a better BS detector.”
I actually have to come back now and tell her I was being facetious?
(o\ ! /o):
“The only problem I would foresee is that there are inherent risks with being entrepreneurial. If you are taking the risks to create a company, which pays taxes, creates jobs, and drives economic growth (like so many small businesses do), there needs to be some concession to risk and reward or no one would put up initial venture capital. Far more new businesses that are started fail than succeed. There have to be properly aligned economic incentives to take those risks.”
100% correct. I would never have risked as much as I did to play a zero sum game. The leftists seem to think the small businesses will, but they’re dead wrong. When there is less risk and less reward, the business owner will just assume work for the other man. Once everybody is signing the back of a paycheck and fewer people are signing the front of them, that metallity will ruin America.
“As an accountant who did tax return preparation at several CPA firms” you know that there are so many ways to hide income and assets and manipulate data that it is virtually impossible for a “flat tax” or any other to work for anyone who does not get a W-2. You KNOW better and you still mouth the party line. That is why I call you out. That is despicable manipulation of people by someone who purports to be educated and experienced and it is wrong. You know better!
No John W, I got it. I was just on a roll. What they never realize is that it does not take an “expert” to call them out. The BS meter is the ONLY area I have or could ever claim to be an expert in. Goliath underestimated David too.
Hey boys, it is not liberals who are pushing for any “flat tax”. Nor are we looking to kill any entrepreneurs willing to risk their dreams. It is just not true. Don’t believe the hype. Obama has lowered taxes on employees AND employers. Obama is fighting hard to keep the tax cuts for those making under 250K which is most actual small business owners, lower. Obama is planning on making it easier to offer insurance to your employees. No, he is not promising to go easy on “small businesses” hiding Hedge Fund Manager billionaires, but Tuesday assured us that the nation is good with that plan. Even going back to the 1990′s level tax rates, you STILL keep more than you pay in taxes, even with a really big pie. Try to have just a little economic patriotism for the hole that giving all that wealth to the rich, and still spending like we were too created and do the right thing…for once.
Obama does not need to “change course” he is not on the wrong one!
Sandi, I mutually have no desire to meet you either. Just keep drinking your kool-aid and try not to spill it.
@73 – Exactly. Maybe one of you kind liberal fools, will give me back one weeks worth of PTO time just taken away by my company as a direct result of the election???? Anybody? I got my handout?
One thing I am sure about is that the moochers will still get their cheese. You people are too stupid to breath.
“Maybe one of you kind liberal fools, will give me back one weeks worth of PTO time just taken away by my company as a direct result of the election???? Anybody? I got my handout?
One thing I am sure about is that the moochers will still get their cheese. You people are too stupid to breath.”
Walker, whatever you do, don’t blame the company. It is NOT their fault. And DON’T go look for another job with more PTO. That would be unfair.
Just blame it on Obama! And blame it on the 62 million Americans (a majority of the electorate, btw) who voted for him.
Maybe you could show your displease by moving to Canada!
Walker @#80: Your employer knows that no matter what the economy does, even if it improves, by making that change now it means you’ll always associate it with the election results. Many shrewd “job creators” are doing the same trick at the moment. They’re no fools, but someone is.
#80 Walker, my boy, when you call somebody else “stupid,” you should make sure you’ve spelled everything correctly. Otherwise, you look like a real dolt. Now take a deep breathe.
BTW, I’ve already given some of my vacation time to another person who needs it for sick time.
I suggest Walker look at his companies earnings report next time it comes out. It will be up because his company is using the big bad Obama card to screw its Employees and increase earnings.
The Douche I mean joke is on you Walker.
Walker, if your employers are taking your vacation time away because they “think” they’ll have problems, it’s not our fault.
Obama does not need to “change course” he is not on the wrong one!
Sure. Let’s go for a $20 trillion deficit, $10 gas, and 13% unemployment.
Employers do not know now what the tax situation will be and the ACA or “Obamacare” is becoming a scape-goat for the employers who know their employees are to ignorant to know better.