Suzie’s promise to leave is the Post of the Day
Note from Dan: On Wednesday we had a public-service post, compiled by Dave Hicks, of the many horribly wrong predictions Suzie made regarding the presidential election. They went back for more than a year. Below is her response, lightly edited for style purposes, in which she gripes at the media and blames it for everything that’s wrong with this country — not very orginal, eh? (C ya later, Suze!):
“Wow. I missed this. 113 posts in a thread devoted to your truly, while I’m 6000 miles away. Soon to be bigger than President Moron’s Selection Day thread. Ah, the power of Suzester.
As for my prediction, I was dead on when I left. Romney had opened a six-point lead in Gallup. Then came the left-wing media to the rescue. All Obama has to do is show up for a two-hour photo op in NJ for the MSM to proclaim the idiot the most presidential figure in history. Meanwhile ten days later, NYC is still is in desperate straits because Obama’s FEMA is AWOL. Ask those folks what they think of Obama’s ‘response’ now. “Cold Katrina” is shaping up to be far worse than the original, but Obama doesn’t care.
Then there was Benghazi, and enormous scandal the MSM ignored. CBS sat on damning evidence of Obama being asked point blank if it was a terrorist attack. They knew the truth and allowed him to get away with his lie.
And speaking of lies, the MSM allowed Obama to skate with the biggest lies of all, that Romney would raise taxes on the middle class while Obama would cut them. In his final stump speeches, Obama was actually claiming he had cut the deficit. Silence from the media. Incredible.
Couple all those things with a society that I think has turned the corner to dependency. We now have more people IN the wagon than are pulling the wagon. We have a population who recognizes Obama is destroying the economy but doesn’t care, as long as they get theirs. Only people who do NOT love this country voted for the man who is intentionally trying to destroy it. You voted for a man who does not care a whit about people, who does not respect religious freedom or human life.
You’ve got the president you deserve. America is in for some very hard times. The economy WOULD have been turned around with Romney at the helm. He WOULD have joined with the House GOP in avoiding the fiscal cliff. Now the debt ceiling will be raised, Obama will keep right on spending, our credit rating will be dropped again, and we will continue with the huge deficits as we are headed directly down the path of Greece.
And when the time comes we can’t pay our bills, China gets tired of financing our irresponsibility, and the government is FORCED to cut back, the leeches will be in the streets destroying property, as in Greece. This was Obama’s grand goal all along. He’s following the EXACT formula laid out by his mentors Cloward and Piven to destroy America from the inside out, top down.
My husband and I have decided we are probably going to close down the company and fully retire. We were waiting to see what happened on Election Day. He’s just tired of pulling the wagon. As for me, I’m going to make myself scarce in here. Just as the good people fled Gomorrah before it was leveled, I need an extended break from this cesspool. Right now, I feel dirty associating with people who made this disaster happen.
Those few of you in here who actually work, watch your paychecks come January 1st. Then you’ll see what your hero has done to the middle class. Morons.”
November 8, 2012 - 11:00 AM
Suzie, Suzie, Suzie… My cue to step away again. Not that I don’t think she brings lively debate… I just think there are far more important topics to be discussed than Suzie’s election prediction fail or her promise to retire and depart the blog. Just my humble opinion.
I didn’t know Jeremy Piven was trying “to destroy America from the inside out, top down.”
I just thought he made bad TV shows.
These predictions will go exactly the way her election predictions went.
They are a conglomeration of right wing paranoia and lies from the twisted mind of a bigot who can’t recognize her own bigotry. Don’t let the doorknob hit you where the good lord split you.
Don’t go away mad…just go ‘way…
I agree with Lynda K. I just can’t be arsed to care about Suzie whether she’s here or not. Same goes for most of the people who share Suzie’s issues, be they political, social, fiscal, or narcissistic.
Actually if someone wants to talk about Cloward Priven, they should start with 911. The basic idea is to create a crisis and force change on the country. Bush and Rove and those guys did that.
Why must you feed the beast, Dan?
Suzie is right. I’m one of the barely middle class family’s with no health insurance and I don’t currently qualify for medicaid. In 2014 when I am FORCED to buy insurance, my family of 5 will actually be in the hole to the tune of $50 per month. If I quit work and become a SHAM we will qualify for medicaid some food stamps and reduced breakfast/lunches for the kids. Looking forward to early retirement…..
“I need an extended break from this cesspool. Right now, I feel dirty associating with people who made this disaster happen. Those few of you here who actually work, watch your paychecks come January 1st. Then you’ll see what your hero has done for the middle class. Morons”
As if the incessant, racist name calling vile that spewed from her fingers somehow floated above the cesspool. Interesting that she should close by making yet another prediction! And by collectively, childishly calling us yet another name. Nothing has changed. She’ll be back…
Sounds as if someone needs to be medicated. I do not think anyone besides my children needs so much attention as to plan my life solely on their decisions. Its quite childish and sad really…
“As for me, I’m going to make myself scarce in here. Just as the good people fled Gomorrah before it was leveled”
As for the fable of Lot and his family, as they fled Sodom… didn’t you mean Sodom, Suzie? before its destruction by their totalitarian god, (Reality, a volcano), didn’t the matriarch of that family get turned into a pillar of salt? and then Lot was date raped by his daughters to procreate because the god of the time failed to mention that Lot could find other ladies and his daughters may be able to find other males in their land… (Gen. 19:23-36) Is Suzie trying to say that she will be turned into a pillar of salt?
How could Suze have called the election so wrong? How could she have repeatedly predicted a Romney landslide? She wasn’t the only one. Here’s a passage from a Dick Morris column just a week before the election, titled, “Here Comes the Landslide.” It’s breathtaking in its inaccuracy.
“The result was that the presidential race reached a tipping point. Reasonable voters saw that the voice of hope and optimism and positivism was Romney [wrong] while the president was only a nitpicking, quarrelsome, negative figure. The contrast does not work in Obama’s favor.
His erosion began shortly after the conventions when Indiana (10 votes) and North Carolina (15) moved to Romney (in addition to the 179 votes that states that McCain carried cast this year).
Then, in October, Obama lost the Southern swing states of Florida (29)[wrong] and Virginia (13)[wrong]. He also lost Colorado (10), [wrong] bringing his total to 255 votes.
And now, he faces the erosion of the northern swing states: Ohio (18), [wrong] New Hampshire (4) [wrong] and Iowa (6)[wrong]. Only in the union-anchored state of Nevada (9) does Obama still cling to a lead.
In the next few days, the battle will move to Pennsylvania (20),[wrong] Michigan (15),[wrong] Wisconsin (10) [wrong] and Minnesota (16)[wrong]. Ahead in Pennsylvania,[wrong] tied in Michigan[wrong] and Wisconsin[wrong], and slightly behind in Minnesota[wrong], these new swing states look to be the battleground.
Or will the Romney momentum grow and wash into formerly safe Democratic territory in New Jersey[wrong] and Oregon[wrong]?
Once everyone discovers that the emperor has no clothes (or that Obama has no argument after the negative ads stopped working), the vote shift could be of historic proportions.[wrong]“
To sum it up, the guy got 16 things EXACTLY backwards in a 223-word passage. It may be a new record for wrongness by a political prognoticator.
At nearly every comment made here the past few days, but specifically #3:
I’m no genius, but it appears that Suzie’s ideology is in the minority on this board, and it is everyone else asking for her disappearance, banning, or even head when she expresses them. By definition, that would make those people the bigots, no matter how misinformed or ignorant her words may be. And that also makes any one of those aforementioned who says she needs to grow up and quit making fun of people(again by definition) a hypocrite.
Justin, that would be very ironic if True is actually your last name.
According to Suzie, more than half of America hates America. And she’s got the nerve to call others “morons.”
I hope she enjoys her government-provided health care and Social Security after she retires. Thanks to Tuesday’s results, those will still be there for her in the years to come.
The aforementioned commenter wrote: “My husband and I have decided we are probably going to close down the company and fully retire. We were waiting to see what happened on Election Day. He’s just tired of pulling the wagon.”
It seems that a lot of John-Galt-wannabes had cropped up after the Election.
James Fallows at the Atlantic has been following the “Atlas Shrugged Guy.”
Original post here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/what-if-the-gop-loses-atlas-shrugged-vs-the-fire-next-time/264556/
Latest post here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/by-popular-demand-one-last-immersion-in-the-world-of-the-atlas-shrugged-guy/264947/
And of course, there’s the one-day-John-Galt in Bedford, a Mr. R. T. Lyons of Lyons Jewelry:
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-bedford-jewelry-store-closes-to-mourn-tuesdays-election-outcome-20121107,0,5851578.story
I guess the Ayn-Randian first-responders have been busy lately…the “waaaambulances” have been called out a lot.
“…and fully retire.” I trust that the commenter and her husband won’t be partaking of any Social Security and Medicare, since they “built it” and don’t need government assistance.
Dan@12:21
Dick morris is joined by Karl Rove. His organizations spent over 300 million on negative attack ads against Obama and various senatorial and house of reps. races. He won less than 5% of them. Wonder how much money the wonder boy will be able to raise for his next effort given that rate of return.
VeriTy,
Is it bigoted to disagree with Suzie, or to call her out for her serial inaccuracies, or to bridle when she calls the president “Monkey Boy,” “Idiot Boy,” and renames the first lady “Moochell” and alleges she’s stealing silverware from the White House?
“Dick morris is joined by Karl Rove. His organizations spent over 300 million on negative attack ads against Obama and various senatorial and house of reps. races. He won less than 5% of them. Wonder how much money the wonder boy will be able to raise for his next effort given that rate of return.”
Oh, to be a fly on the wall of Karl’s meetings with the loud and angry bazillionaires!
Dan, having been a staunch conservative in the past…let me give a bit of insight. There is a strong belief among conservatives that polls are flawed and inherently skewed toward Democrats/liberals, that they don’t take into account the opinion that the country is center-right toward Republican ideals rather than toward Democrat ideals. They truly believe that there is a great mass of people who never get accounted for in the polling, so that the polls never accurately reflect the voting public.
As a result, they believe the polls have a solid 5 or so point bias toward whomever the Democrat is. Further, they claim that the media is in on it because they have a desire to supress conservative voters by discouraging them, by making it appear the race is lost, to keep them home (when in all actuality, that would encourage malaise among liberal voters thinking they don’t need to vote in order for their candidate to win).
So, when they look at polls, they dismiss them as faulty and ignore them, unless they come from a source they trust, like Fox and others, which clearly were biased toward Republicans because of how poorly they performed when compared to reality. But, since they omnly trust in and believe those polls, they truly felt they were going to win, and were stunned when they did not.
So naturally, it has to be because of fraud, media manipulation, tonfoil hat conspiracies, you name it…because their polls and their opinions could not possibly be wrong.
The fact is, the GOP has alienated a ton of voters, and it’s not going to get any better. Hispanics and other racial/ethnic minority voters are not voting for the GOP because their policies are hostile toward them. Women aren’t supporting the GOP in great numbers for the same reason. Well-educated people who are capable of thinking freely and examining data and numbers, with no bias toward a preconcived notion, have determined the GOP to be full of crap and completely wrong on most economic policies…because they flat don’t work as promised, ever. And, they’ve turned away a growing pool of secular voters who see the intermingling of religion and the GOP as a threat to freedom and liberty in this country.
And, all of those groups of people the GOP is alienating, are growing in number. The core base of GOP support is not keeping up, and that’s part of why Virginia has now gone for the Democrats in the past 2 national elections. Until the GOP regroups and refocuses on a more broad-based platform that doesn;t openly turn away large swaths of voters, they will continue to find their support more difficult to come by. They will never fade to obscurity though, they have enough concentration of support in places like the south and midwest to keep a large number of seats in Congress, but they are increasingly viewed as backward and wrong for the country by the groups of people whose numbers are increasing more rapidly.
And Lindsey Graham of SC figured this out before the election…
http://themoderatevoice.com/166682/sen-lindsey-graham-r-sc-blames-possible-romney-election-loss-on-demographics/
Corporations/businesses are already laying people off or cutting back from full time to part time work b/c of the results of the election. Businesses CANNOT afford to pay extra taxes that are going to be imposed by Obamacare. This is not going to go well for America.
Dan
Left off the link on the Karl Rove post.
http://news.yahoo.com/republican-strategist-karl-roves-very-bad-night-002109469.html
I don’t think we should pick on Dick Morris about that, Dan. It’s one thing to be wrong, but to be almost exclusively wrong is something worth watching. At the very least, it gives you a good barometer as to which way you should lean your expectations – AWAY from whatever he’s saying.
You have to admit that it takes a bit of testicular fortitude to go on national TV and say the things he does. Still, with as uncanny as his inaccuracy is, you also have to wonder if he’s not just putting us on.
“The fact is, the GOP has alienated a ton of voters, and it’s not going to get any better. Hispanics and other racial/ethnic minority voters are not voting for the GOP because their policies are hostile toward them. Women aren’t supporting the GOP in great numbers for the same reason. Well-educated people who are capable of thinking freely and examining data and numbers, with no bias toward a preconcived notion, have determined the GOP to be full of crap and completely wrong on most economic policies…because they flat don’t work as promised, ever. And, they’ve turned away a growing pool of secular voters who see the intermingling of religion and the GOP as a threat to freedom and liberty in this country.
And, all of those groups of people the GOP is alienating, are growing in number.”
OJ it appears the right-wing has alienated itself from reality, too.
Obama’s base had a huge voter turnout
Romney’s base was average or below.
Which one was more likely to be at work and not get to the polls?
Dan, they have. I used to vote straight Republican tickets, and did so until 2004, when I voted Harry Brown for President from the Libertarian Party. The last time I voted for a Republican for any national-level race was 2006, I believe. Since then it’s been Democrats, Libertarians, and write-ins for national races (Senate, US House, President). I have voted for Republicans at the local level, and for some state offices like House of Delegates and State Senate though, because they were doing a good job, in my opinion.
@VeriTy, of course it is…
“Obama’s base had a huge voter turnout
Romney’s base was average or below.
Which one was more likely to be at work and not get to the polls?
Next from PP, we will hear an argument that the laws should make it easier for working people to vote.
Hey — I know — how about early voting on weekends prior to elections!
(They had that in place in Ohio and Fla and GOP officials in those states tried desperately to LIMIT early voting even further. Just fyi)
Conservative
You’re still drinking the faux news kool aid. Ultimately, ACA will end up reducing health care costs for corporations. And the layoffs and cutting back hours are pure greed because corporate profits have been at record levels for the past several years. They are also short sighted because the more they cut back, the more they reduce demand for their products.
Unless they wake up and smell the coffee, that is what will hold back the economy.
Dan,
Of course not – Disagreeing on an issue alone does not make you bigoted, nor does defending despiteful remarks. However, stooping to the point of not only ostracizing, but retaliating in the same manner of what you are rejecting her for is both bigoted and hypocritical (I’m not saying you specifically). Perspective is everything, I guess.
Since Justin started with the Bible quoting, Luke 6:31 says “Do to others as you would have them do unto you”. A few around her are taking the position of “doing to others as they do to you”, and all the while acting like she is a savage. Have a good look in the mirror is my point.
I’m not a regular poster but I am a regular reader and from what I gather from this Suzie person is that she’s really just self-loathing. The gun crazy right wingers on this blog want to take this country back to the 1950s. Well, as a true American, I am proud that Obama was re-elected. No one ever looks at the good things that he’s done. I for one know first hand that some of his stimulus programs have created jobs. He maintains separation of church and state. Although no man is perfect, I am glad that America is moving into the 21st century. So haters are gonna hate. Truth boils down to this: republicans can’t stand have a black man in the Whitehouse. A huge number of my Facebook “friends” have shown me who they really are by the hideous remarks that they made of our President. Well I was raised in the south and I was raised to respect the President. I may not agree with everything he or she does but I still show respect. That goes for George W., George Sr. and Reagan even though I didn’t agree with most of their policies.
Sure Demographics matter. The reality is that when your policies are offensive to entire blocks of society, you have problems. No party is perfect and certainly no candidate is but hog-tying a candidate with a Platform, positions, policies and the rhetoric of the right wing will ensure a lot of people tune out and move on from jump. There are just not enough angry, ignorant white people any more. Thanks be to God!
If you work from 6AM to 7PM, you can get an absentee ballot. Or did those hard working ignorant right wingers not know that Pistol Pete?
Yeah, Dan…the GOP is so conserned about their core voters being at work and being unable to vote that they’re fighting to end or restrict early voting. They see early voting as beneficial to liberals. They see extended polling hours as beneficial to liberals. They see the lack of voter ID to be beneficial to liberals. They see making Election Day a national holiday as beneficial to liberals. But then, they claim that liberals can easily get to the polls on election day because they don’t work…and practically every caveat or restriction they place on voting would, by their logic in everything else, only hurt their base.
Truly, they have a dizzying intellect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2y40U2LvKY&feature=fvwrel
“When you have divided the world into two categories – freedom or tyranny – and there is no ground whatever between them, you are not only among the least intelligent commentators out there; you also have to be completely fanatical even in the face of popular repudiation.” – Andrew Sullivan
Hmmm. Who does that remind me of? Who could it be?
Sorry, Dan. Looks like I missed a after Andrew Sullivan in that last post.
VeriTy,
Well, Suzie has never been banned here (despite requests from a few that I do that). If she bans herself, I don’t see that as bigoted — merely her choice.
I’d be lying, though, if I said I was sorry she was gone.
I’m tickled with imagining this thought process of a hardcore GOPer:
“Those darn Democrats get more people out to the polls because half of them DON’T WORK! They can afford to spend all that time in line!
And we Republicans CAN”T spend 2-4 hours at the polls on Tuesdays because WE HAVE TO WORK!
Let’s see — maybe we should have EARLY voting on weekends leading up to Election Day, so we Republicans could vote!
Uh … except, the black churches might use that as an opportunity to bus their congregants to the polls — oh no!
There will be nonworking people voting on Tuesdays! And nonworking people voting on weekends!
Boxed in again!”
SuzieQ saying goodbye to this blog made me think about this old Buddy Holly tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9FCBatl3A
Agreed, Dan. My food for thought was for the “few” that you have referred to. And a little sustenance for you, “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone”… Just Kidding.
As usual, someone always confuses tolerance with forcing us to accept heinous behavior. It is not bigoted, nor hypocritical to return fire. It is human nature, it is what many deserve and it is the way society advises that you shape up or ship out. With few exceptions, right wingers cannot express themselves without anger, insult and dishonesty. It gets old. You may force your way in and attempt to bully the Gonzos, but you will not be welcomed or thanked for the effort. And a majority of voters agree.
Oh please, I am so sick and tired of hearing about the whiny-assed “small business owners” firing people because of Obama-care. You’re either in business or you’re not, and I fail to see why the country should be held hostage to the o-so-tender sensibilities of what is, after all, nothing but another special-interest group. And, since anyone with half a brain knows that the genuinely small businesses are exempt from the ACA requirements, it’s total BS.
The lesson of this election is that – even now- the highest seat we have cannot be bought. Very refreshing.
@VeriTy,
I only threw the bible quote in there to prove a point. She is so closed minded on her world view referenced the bible incorrectly. I do like to bring the bible up, but only to show how silly it is.
Good one Ron May! @37 -
Ms. Saunders,
The confusion is not between tolerance and acceptance, but between retaliation, hypocrisy, and bigotry. I believe you are right concerning our human nature, however. And for me to say that I have never been hypocritical would be completely absurd. But I do hope that people point out the error of my ways, rather than letting me wallow in them. It would be better for me to humble myself rather than to be humbled by God.
I would continue on with relating your statement “You may force your way in and attempt to bully… but you will not be welcomed or thanked for the effort” with the way the upper middle class must feel in a socialistic society, but I’m sure I’ve lost most readers with the mentioning of God. Again, it is all in perspective, and I appreciate yours’.
Failed or failing small businesses need an excuse of why they aren’t succeeding…sooooo, blame it on the President. Because these small businesses haven’t written a new business plan since the 1990s – and these times aren’t the 1990s! – and decided to do the same old same old, no innovation, no corrective measures, no anticipatory adjustments – they now whine that the government is responsible for their failure….
Maybe whatever these whiners are selling or marketing is something the public is just not into anymore, or better companies with more innovation and skilled employees are just besting them. If they were successful in the nineties, I wonder did they credit President Clinton, or was it the same old, “we built it”? Logically if you built it, you then have also let it fail. Otherwise it seems rather hypocritical to me…
Dan..totally missed the joke of my #23 post.
Dems= freeloaders who don’t work and sponge off govt.
Justin,
I had that understanding when I read your first post. And from what I can tell, it was both that were destroyed with brimstone and fire. They were neighboring towns, and both in moral decay. When she looked back on one, she was certainly facing the other. I know that parts of the Bible seem unbelievable, but I guess it would not take any amount of faith if it were not.
Separate question, would you consider yourself more of being atheist, or a non-theist, as Christopher Hitchens describes himself?
Here’s Dick Morris explaining his failure. Basically it boiuls down to
“I was stupid”.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/07/dick_morris_explains_why_his_landslide_prediction_was_wrong.html
Bye susie. Good luck in your future endeavors.
BTW you owe me $100 bucks. Just make a check out in my name (Cold) and send it to planned parenthood please.
Thanks
There was no joke there, PP. The polls open long before most people have to be at work. Your candidate just got his butt kicked. Accept it. And if you don’t pitch the Bible humping tea-baggers, it’s going to keep on happening. The GOP’s message doesnt resonate with anyone. The party seems to be getting that…maybe it’s time for the sheeple to catch on.
No body missed the point of your joke pistol pete. It just wasn’t funny. As a matter of fact its just not true either. Romney’s largest demographic of support was the over 65 crowd WHO DON”T WORK.
So, in fact I would bet more people working voted for Obama than Romney.
I don’t agree with the election results, however, I respect the office of the President of the United States of America, not necessarily the holder of that office because of his “record” the past four years. Nevertheless, the holder of that office is now and will be my President too for the next four years and I figure I’ve made through the last four I will last four more. I remind all that about 1/2 of Americans voted the other way and some of the 1/2 that did not also voted for marijuna, same sex marriage, etc, etc. I now feel that as a senior, Caucasion, male, still employed full time at age 75, heterosexual married to a member of the opposite sex, I may now be a minority person and may have picked up some benefits I heretofore did not have. Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year (and four more years) to ALL. Linnie
Good post, Mr Gregory.
“even now- the highest seat we have cannot be bought.”
That’s my take. Karl Rove won’t be trusted with his kid’s lunch money after this.
Obama’s base had a huge voter turnout
Romney’s base was average or below.
Which one was more likely to be at work and not get to the polls?
Comment by pistol pete — November 8, 2012 @ 12:49 pm
Funny, my husband and I were able to go to the polls, vote for President Obama, AND go to work on Tuesday.
suzie-
why waste your breath on Big Lick anf d. casey? These proplr drserve just what they have.
pete
ps-hang in there.
Me thinks pete should lay off the booze when posting.
VeriTy if you had been on this blog for 2 or 3 years, you would know why Suzie is loathed by most people.
This Dem works, because I like having a roof over my head, money in the bank and food in the fridge. I voted after my 8 hr workday was done on Tuesday. Every liberal that I personally know works for a living.
The GOP drove itself off the cliff, PP.
#55 Pete, a little problem with the spell check or did that post come out just fine?
Suzie says, “We have a population who recognizes that Obama is destroying the economy but doesn’t care, as long as they get theirs.” Seems to me we could substitute “the past two Republican Presidents” for “Obama” and we would be describing a fair number of the very wealthy.
Should have said “the past three Republican Presidents.”
It’s baaaacck!
Not for nothing VeriTy, but a “socialistic society” would not by definition have an “upper middle class”.
And again, you may claim that “ostracizing”, or “retaliating in the same manner of what you are rejecting” is “bigoted” or “hypocritical”, but it is not. In point of fact people on this and the blog she was banned from have repeatedly gone to great lengths to “point out the error” of her ways, and she has repeatedly and flagrantly chosen to “wallow in them”. Odds are she will not be humbled by God until it is too late for her to redeem herself. It is a pattern.
suzie-
why waste your breath on Big Lick anf d. casey? These proplr drserve just what they have.
pete
ps-hang in there.
I appreciate the kind words, Pete.
Suzie, just when I feel like it’s not as much fun as it was 4 years ago…you show up and I remember that it’s much, much. MORE fun. Thank you for that.
Say it along with me….OBAMA 2012!!!
After reading petes post or trying to anyway, I gather he is currently in either Colorado or Washington state and is enjoying a little wacky weed.
Is Suzie’s pronouncement, “As for me, I’m going to make myself scarce in here” the latest in the epic failures and lies?
Tea party to morph into Koffee Klatch?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/tea-party-to-coffee-klatch/2012/11/08/f2b6676a-29cc-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html?hpid=z2
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!
#45 Sorry, pp, but I heard a version of that one 5 times Tuesday. Just as stupid now as it was then.
A beautiful song of the day for suz that pretty much sums up all her failed hopes and dreams for the election;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4_wXPZ1Bnk
@VeriTy,
I consider myself a humanbeing first, then if need be when I am among folks who believe in supernatural things I consider myself an Atheist, and yes I would say that I am an Anti-theist or a non-theist like, Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens, along with many other mainstream non-theists did not particularly like the label “Atheist”, but… I am what I am.
And what would you classify yourself as? Obviously a Christian, but of which of the 38,000+ denominations do you claim allegiance to?
Justin,
Thanks for your honesty and I appreciate your opinion. I was just curious, as I have been listening to debates recently between the Dawkins – Hitchens corner and pro-creationists. I thought his non-theist categorization was interesting, although I understood it to be because he thought the term atheist wasn’t strong enough to show his disdain towards people of faith.
As far as classifying myself, it would be as a follower of Jesus Christ, and I believe that is all that truly matters. Southern Baptist is the denomination of church I attend.
@VeriTy
I am a big fan of Hitchens, I was crushed when he died last year… I am a fan of Dawkins as well.
So, as a Southern Baptist, are you a fundamentalist? Do you believe every word and story in the bible?
I, like yourself, am into learning about the other side of arguments. I have read many books by Christians, and I consider myself well read as far as the bible is concerned. To me the bible is a good book for fables, but when taken seriously, it is very dangerous!
Justin,
There is no arguing that Hitchens was an important intellectual figure and well-spoken man. He certainly had a knack for sparking debate and rousing others’ emotions.
And yes, I do believe the Bible is the inerrant and Holy Word of God. I take every story within the pages as literal, from a six day creation to a virgin birth.
However, I do not see how taking the Bible seriously could be construed as dangerous. I would agree that people have done some very foolish things in the name of religion, gods, and God, but on the other end of the spectrum you have Stalin and Hitler. I do not think the Bible is to blame for the former, nor communism, atheism, or anything else for the latter. Rather, the state of men’s hearts is to blame, which are inherently wicked and deceitful.
On the other hand, some of the many commandments given in the Bible include: Be merciful as your Father is merciful, the man who has two tunics should share with him who has none, love each other as I (Jesus) have loved, honor all men… the list is VERY long (http://www.bethelministries.com/nt_commandments.htm), but I don’t see how any of these could be seen as dangerous to society.
Care to expound?
67.Is Suzie’s pronouncement, “As for me, I’m going to make myself scarce in here” the latest in the epic failures and lies? (Question from Dave Hicks)
Logic maven Dave, please tell us if this syllogism is correct:
Given: You are what you eat.
A) Crows eat Roadkill.
B) Poster #64 eats Crow.
C) Therefore, Poster #64 is Roadkill.
76
You clowns seem to think I am under obligation to report to you as to when or for how long I choose to take a hiatus.
Re: Comment by Warren — November 9, 2012 @ 3:12 pm
C) Therefore, Poster #64 is Roadkill.
—————–
Warren,
You may well have nailed it, metaphorically, allegorically, figuratively, etc.
Dead meat for all who will see to see — with apologizes to Matthew Henry.
However, I have a couple question.
Does not eating Crow, even non-literally, require the sagacity and honesty to recognize and acknowledge one’s failings?
If so, has poster #64 those virtues in order to actually eat Crow, even when proven repeated wrong? Or, does a level of irrationality and dishonesty in her nature preclude even that?
OTOH, she might assume that her procrastination will cause folk to forget. Nah. No one is that dumb.
—–
Nice sucenct syllogism, BTW.
Re: Comment by Suzie — November 9, 2012 @ 7:07 pm
Leave or not, when are you going to eat crow — publicly?
Dave Hicks@8:17
I don’t think you realize what you’re asking. Why would you want poor Suzie to be become a cannibal and eat one of her own even if it is dead and old.!
She does not have to own up to it (as if), the truth has already indicted her in ways she cannot even fathom.
If there ias a God in heaven please
have fate and a fool buy that pop stand and send this
psychotic somewhere.
For the love of God someone intervene.
Profile of the sociopath..
Here is a little light reading.
(it is brief..though startlingly recognizable)
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
It’s pretty funny when the guy who post stanzas of indecipherable gibberish calls someone else a ‘psychotic”.
Justin,
I woke up this morning with a different point of view. I believe the Bible can be extremely dangerous… to a certain group of people. The verse I had on my mind when I woke up this morning is, “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It penetrates to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.”(Hebrews 4:12-13) Anything with that much power would be dangerous. I think we are in agreement for different reasons, though.
VeriTy,
The reasons why I feel religion is dangerous are many. But the main issues are people’s ignorance to blindly follow where no evidence leads. You say that you follow the bible as the inerrant word of god, why? How? The answer I get from many is “faith”. Definition of faith is; believing something without evidence. So, how and why should I follow and poor my energy and brainwash my children into believing something that shows no evidence of being real, truth, or correct in any fashion? I understand that you may fear death and its inevitability, I fear death as well, but I will not support something that has such a lack of evidence and such a lack of morality. Religions and the faith that are drug behind it, retards humanity and our necessary need to grow.
I remember struggling as a young man in my father’s church (Southern Baptist) and in the Marines. Trying to reconcile my personal morality, with the immorality that resides within the pages in the bible and the immorality that religions, their leaders and their followers seem to proselytize.
I certainly do not have it all figured out, and I am glad that I do not… but I can say with confidence there is not any evidence for the existence for god(s), and there certainly is not any evidence for the existence of any of the interpretations of the Abrahamic traditions.
Let us assume that there are god(s). What if your choice is wrong?
Re: Comment by Justin True — November 10, 2012 @ 10:58 am
How about a play on the old “The right way, the wrong way and the Marine way.”
Might there not be a right way, a wrong way and a tel-evangelist way? Or conversely a right way, a wrong way and a thinking way? Options, options, options.
Semper Fi, and keep on Improvising, Adapting and Overcoming, my friend.
Justin True,
VeriTy is about to fire a scripture missle into this debate to create the neccessary distraction for his/her OWN intellect to exit gracefully. Look for yet another book and verse answer to follow. It’s pretty predictable as logic and reason will not align with his/her position as a back-up.
When we wrote papers in grade school and in college, our teachers/professors wanted to see a variety of sources for our research. The bible-weilders have only ONE source….EVER. A source they’ll never accept hearing anyone challenge. That says a lot.
Suzie…
What on earth made you think
I was talking about you.
…?
John Wilburn,
I know VeriTy will come back with yet another verse. He is the classic fundie, but odds are I know the bible as well, if not better than he. I am no, Bart Ehrman, but I do know what the bible says, and I know what some interpretations may suggest. I grew up with an ignorant, “bible-beating” father who assumed that the bible was correct and true in every fashion but never would entertain the idea that his faith was incredulous and insane. Personally, I enjoy the debate. More often than not, you can get the religious to admit the irrational nature of their belief system.
I enjoy pushing the reality that we godless people are moral, and we are good citizens of this world that we live in. I spend a lot of time trying to build a good community for non-theists, Southern Virginia Atheists. We do not claim to have all of the answers, but we do enjoy each other’s godless company in a moral and family orientated environment. We do not need, nor will we ever need a celestial supervisor to always do right by our fellow human being. I think that the bible-weilders of our society need to realize they could be wrong, and they do not hold the moral compass for our society or any society for that matter. Religion tends to assert we need a creator for morality; I assert that we are a exceedingly more moral society without the supposed moral teachings and guidance of a god.
I would like Christians to consider the evidence, and consider facts before imposing crazy ideals on society.
Dave Hicks, Semper Fi, Brother! One thing that I have learned in this life, it is much better to think and reason your problems out, versus being problematic and forcing your views onto others. The recent political events with rape, and Planned Parenthood, are just ways of keeping a certain demographic under control. To me that is not playing fair. The religious bullying going on in our society today is getting quite overwhelming.
Justing (and others),
I thank you for your service. I hope you, your children, and those you love are able to enjoy this Veteran’s Day weekend.
Your original claim was that taking the Bible “seriously” would be dangerous. Now you are saying that religion in general is dangerous. What does the Bible say about religion? “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress…” If more people followed this type of religion, the world would be a better place.
So on to why I believe in God. Apparently, you guys do not want Bible quotes on this one, so I will attack it from a different angle. First, I believe the magnificence of this planet, our universe, and the millions of other galaxies that scientists say are out there, on down to the intricacies of the human body, how marvelous even the human eye is, how everything has worked together to allow us to exist on planet Earth, point to a creator. I think it takes more faith to believe otherwise.
In regards to the Bible (without quoting), I think it is amazing how the words that fill its pages, from Genesis to Revelation, all point to the same thing (Jesus), even though they were written thousands of years apart. In the past, most anti-Christian’s would say you cannot use the current Bible because it has been translated so many times, and these translations would lead to inaccuracies. Well, we now have the Dead Sea scrolls, which I believe are located in a museum in Texas. There are less than 5% inaccuracies between the original text and our version of the Bible today, and all these inaccuracies are only in the spelling of names from one text to another. I find that amazing.
Lastly, I believe in God because numerous times in the past, in my time of need, I have called out to the God of the Bible in prayer. I have had my prayers answered in remarkable ways. From big things to insignificant, He has shown Himself time and time again. With that said, my question is this: Why WOULDN’T I believe in Christ, Him crucified, the resurrection, and a resulting eternal salvation by calling on His name? If there is a God who could create the universe and cares enough for man to send His son to die on a cross, He certainly has the power to perform all of the miracles found in scripture, as well as the many miracles that happen on Earth today. I will not turn a blind eye to the facts when God has given me sight. He who has an ear, let him hear.
And just so you can really throw me under the bus with your rebuttal, I do not fear death.
VeriTy:
“And just so you can really throw me under the bus with your rebuttal, I do not fear death.”
I don’t want to throw you under the bus. I do not fear death either. There was a time when I thought more like you, but it is an intellectually lazy position to take, in my opinion. I spent most of my K-12 experience in a Christian school, and like Justin True, probabaly know the Bible as well as you do…. most atheists do know the Bible well and that is a considerable factor as to why they’re atheists. I would encourage you to explore the prospect of higher truth than those 66 books where most fundies get ALL of their answers.
Suzie…
What on earth made you think
I was talking about you.
Joe,
What on earth
gave you the indication
I thought you were
talking about me,
you psychotic moron?
Hey John,
I say the following out of the utmost respect, as I am sure you have put a LOT of time and thought into your beliefs, just as I have. You say the Christian viewpoint “is an intellectually lazy position to take” and that I should “explore the prospect of higher truth than those 66 books where most fundies get ALL of their answers.” Please tell me what you have to offer me…
As I have indicated, I have listened to about every debate between the leading thinkers from the other camp, and I have not heard anything that should sway me from my core beliefs. Even Dawkins himself will say he cannot say for certain there is no God, he just cannot comprehend the thought of a higher being.
And if by higher intellect, you mean that this world and the vastness of the universe was formed from nothing and by nothing, that is the pit of all thinking, the most depressed form of intellect I could imagine, and to me is senseless and does not stand to reason (I realize there was some redundancy there). I am not saying this is what you believe, but it seems to be the consensus among scientists today. What position do you have that makes more sense than a Creator? If you see an extraordinary watch with a flawless design, I would hope you would assume there was something behind those moving parts that put them together. Hold your hand out in front of you with nothing in it, close your fingers over the palm of your hand, wait a second or two, now open. Did you get anything? And how crazy would you be to assume you ever would?
No, I will hold firm to my faith, defending it if necessary, and press on to take hold of that for which Christ has taken hold of me, all the while, respectfully putting up with those who claim intellectual supremacy when they have nothing close to an answer, much less a better one.
VeriTy,
You can watch all the debates you want. You can claim to be a Christian and hold on to the theory of it bearing no facts all you want, but at the end of the day what is reality. We as a society have to grasp some type of reality to dwell within it. In other words, as Sam Harris asks, “What does religion assert that science and philosophy cannot prove with facts today?” Religion is humanity’s first attempt at science and philosophy, a sad and baseless one, but a valid attempt.
There are way to many obscene things that a Christian must accept, that an Atheist does not. Like prayer. Prayer is useless and quite frankly sad on so many different levels. Prayer takes away from the person or persons being wronged and it also takes away from society actually being proactive to take care of things in society. Take Facebook for example; people see starving children or victims of Hurricane Sandy and hit a like button when they see a bowl of hot soup or a firefighter rescuing someone… as if hitting that “Like” button will somehow beam help to those people! As if being on your knees and talking to yourself will let someone know that you are sorry for spreading lies about them behind their back. Nothing fails like prayer and the only victim-less crime is blasphemy.
So, you say that Christianity can answer life’s questions better than science. How so?
Also, VeriTy, I keep menaing to ask you about this statement.
“I would agree that people have done some very foolish things in the name of religion, gods, and God, but on the other end of the spectrum you have Stalin and Hitler.”
Everyone knows that, Stalin, was an Atheist, but Hitler? Hitler was a Catholic, and even had support from the Catholic Church and Pope during and after the Holocaust. The Catholic Church helped move thousands of German and Italian war criminals to South America. Hitler, was an outspoken and devout Catholic. Why would you say that he was an Atheist?
Well there it is. The Republicans lost because they chose a slate of candidates and a platform which was acceptable to people like Susie. The idea of the delusional leading the deranged was handily rejected by most voters.
Bob is right on the money. I looked at both sides (again!) and again it was either Obama or some 2nd rate candidates (both of them this time) with no platform. Then instead of talking about the platform…. Romney told a different set of lies each time he went to a different place to speak.
Justin,
As a Christian, it is obvious that I contend there is an underlying faith behind my beliefs. You posted above that I “say that Christianity can answer life’s questions better than science. How so?” I have examined all of my previous posts, and have yet to find where I made that assertion. Nevertheless, I will have a go at it below. What I did ask you, on the other hand, is how believing in the Bible could be construed as dangerous? Also, I asked why I WOULDN’T hold my faith as truth given my testimony, the change in my life upon accepting Christ to seeing the hand of God move to answer my prayers (either you call me a liar on this one or you chalk it up to coincidence). However, I don’t know if you can argue the fact that there are cases out there where someone with a terminal disease is given a time frame, only to go back later and the illness is nonexistent. I know of people who are living more than 10 years past the date the doctor’s gave them as the longest they could expect to be alive. When these cases arise and we see things that go against science (or the order of nature), it only makes sense to assume that it was something “supernatural” that allowed those things to happen.
Now, on to how Christianity can answer life’s questions better than science. First, let me point out that religion is “a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe…” Science and its theories are, in and of itself, a form of religion. Having said that, I still believe that science backs-up Christianity for the most part. The big-bang theory makes perfect sense, other than the part of it where it says everything was created from nothing. To me, there was a point in time where everything came into being, but that’s when God spoke them into creation.
These aren’t the serious life questions that you have asked about above, though. A big life question for me is, “What is my purpose on this Earth?” or “Why am I here?” Science can never answer these for me. The Bible can. Scripture tells me it is for the glory of God, and it even spells out for me how I can attain this purpose.
It is clear that more and more science and medicine are backing up Scripture. Take a look at the picture of recently discovered laminin, the glue that holds all things together. Compare that to 1 John: 1:1-4. I know, I know… yet another coincidence.
VeriTy, first off the fact that laminin is shaped like the cross that you worship is a coincidence. #1, if Jesus Christ, was even a historical figure and he did exist, and if he was crucified in the Roman fashion, it wouldn’t be a lower case “t”, it would be a upper case “T”. Here again we find that Christians will stretch something to fit their own personal world view. It is like people who have claimed to see and have interacted with alien life forms. They are seeing what they want to see. In my opinion, if aliens did come to Earth, and they actually do exist, I do not think they would look anything like what we humans assume they do. In order for them to look like they do, 2 eyes, brain size, opposable thumbs et al, they would have had to evolved with the Ape family like we did. The fact that Christians will stretch facts to fit their assertions, isn’t anything new.
Then you say, ” Science and its theories are, in and of itself, a form of religion.” Science, nor Atheism are religions. Religion is based solely on faith. Science is based on facts and evidence. Two very distinct things. Saying that Science and Atheism are religions is saying that not playing baseball is a sport.
Then you say, “Also, I asked why I WOULDN’T hold my faith as truth given my testimony, the change in my life upon accepting Christ to seeing the hand of God move to answer my prayers (either you call me a liar on this one or you chalk it up to coincidence).”
Honestly, I do believe that YOU believe this. You do believe that the laws of nature were suspended so that Mary would be pregnant with infant Jesus, the laws of nature would be suspended many times to suit the miraculous claims of Jesus, and then the laws of nature would be suspended again for his resurrection. There isn’t a doubt you believe that. But I feel that you a presupposing your hypothesis that a god exists to suit your own personal needs. You are delusional. You feel these things are true to coincide with your life. Why? Brainwashed? Guilt? Lack of choice? Only you can answer that question. The fact that we can pick out shapes in our genetic codes and say “god did it”, isn’t anything new.
Oh, c’mon Justin. First, I don’t worship the cross, I worship him who hung on it. It’s not the tree (or wood) I’m looking at, it’s the man hanging on the tree. The way his hands were nailed out to the sides of him with his feet nailed to the same perpindicular board would have made his body in the natural “t” shape. Stretch your arms out and take a look in the mirror if you don’t believe me. John 1:3 is not referring to the cross, it is referring to Jesus. And Colossians 1:17 says “He is before all things, and in Him ALL things hold together.” Again, “Him” is referring to Jesus. So the fact the we now have laminin, the glue of life, which is shaped like the Son of God sacrificing himself, only holds up the Bible. Quite remarkable. You are the one doing the spinning here.
Justin,
I am glad that you believe that I believe, I just wish you believe WHAT I believe. I can see neither one of us is going to make any kind of headway in our controverting.
You say I have arrived at my conclusion by presumptions based on my own personal needs, and then proceed to call me delusional, postulating brainwashing, guilt, and lack of choice (would this be destiny?). It is clear that one of us is acting vindictively against the other side. You have baselessly called me delusional, when you cannot prove my beliefs as being such.
I, on the other hand, have told you I respect your opinion as well as those of others’ who have not shown favor upon my viewpoint, multiple times. Perhaps I am not the only one who has shaped my beliefs based on my past, as you have pointed out in one of your first posts your disdain for your “ignorant” father, who happens/happened to be a Southern Baptist preacher. Perhaps there is an underlying psychological issue that drives your incessent persecution of religion. Perhaps this hatred of God, as you are a self-proclaimed atheist/NON-theist, is driven by a scarring childhood experience.
Look at the effects on Darwin after losing a daughter at an age too early for him to comprehend. He who grew up in a faith-based home and referenced the Bible and creation in his earlier works, at this moment of his darkest hour turned his back on God and sought to destroy the faith that he so-long held on to. Perhaps you have similar circumstances. This a question only you can answer…
It is not my place to judge, and I humbly bow out of this race. You have the floor, so to speak, for final arguments. I bid you farewell, and thank you again for your willingness to serve this country for my freedom, inlcuding freedom of religion. Peace be with you.
VeriTy,
First let me say that I do respect you, I appreciate your words and your respect given to myself on this thread. I do respect your opinion, but I will never respect your religion. There are far too many reasons for my lack of respect to list here on Mr. Casey’s blog.
Second, I am not an angry Atheist in the respects of being treated wrong by a certain faith, people of a faith, or any one person of a faith in general. As a matter of fact, I am received quite well in many circumstances. I have never had a faith to lose in the matters of religion. I have questioned religion and its fallacies since I was a little boy. I remember growing up as a young man and listening to adults claim supernatural abilities, supernatural interventions, and many other superfluous religious claims growing up and thinking these people were delusional and could not be serious… Ever since I can remember questioning faith, the only reasons given to me to not question faith is fear, and fear alone. Not love, not respect, not logic, not actual reasoning, and certainly not evidence to point to a god or god-creator. (Please understand I mean this in the most respectable way possible, no disrespect or vitriol intended)The fact that you have let yourself remain brainwashed into your adult years is something that you have to deal with, as I have to deal with my reasoning to be a rational and moral Atheist in a world full of irrational, and immoral theists spreading their teachings through fear and archaic superstitious threats.
While it is on my mind, the reason for my disdain towards my father is due to his drug and alcohol abuse, nothing to do with his theological world view. This happened in my early 20′s.
Lastly, the way that this mythical figure, Jesus the Nazarene, was nailed to the cross begs the question, how was he nailed to the cross? Historically, if this purported story is true, how would one be nailed to the cross? You have many claims of stigmata showing people with holes in the palms of their hands, and the tops of their feet. When historically, and proof provided by archaeological evidence suggests that the nails would have to have been nailed through the wrists, and then through the ankles of the victim. This may seem minor to yourself with so much faith in something that is so far-fetched… but to me, this is something that needs to be addressed. The people of your faith worship the idol of the cross, and at times, the dead man hanging on the cross, so why are you singling this man out to suit your hypothesis?
You say that you wished that I believed as you do. I am glad that I do not. I live a more full-filled and moral life as an Atheist who helps his fellow human because he feels a secular moral obligation to, not because of supervision. I prefer rationality, and reality, over hope for something that just doesn’t exist.
JT