Tuesday’s column: Navel-gazing on the municipal level
We have a new mini soap opera on Roanoke City Council. It seems like it’s a little bit of a hot potato, too. It concerns the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee, the panel’s future, and all the vacancies council has deferred filling on it for months now.
In case you haven’t caught all the episodes here’s a quick and dirty synopsis to fill you in.
1) Sometime over the summer, Roanoke City Council began some closed-door discussions over the fate of the committee, which council created by ordinance in 1965. These occurred as council deferred appointing citizens who had applied to fill vacancies on the panel.
2) Mayor David Bowers went to the MMAC’s September meeting and told them council was considering abolishing the committee, or making it a subcommittee of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board.
3) MMAC Chair Nancy Dye went to council’s Oct. 1 meeting and asked council what was up. Beyond other council members expressing outrage that Bowers had breached a vow of secrecy by spilling those beans, there was mostly a lot of hemming and hawing.
She was back again Monday, as council seemed to continue struggling to make a “decision” that has left more than a few people asking, “is it necessary to make a decision about this at all?”
For the second month in a row, and for more than an hour Monday afternoon, council heard from MMAC committee members and citizens.
Everybody in the room agreed its work is valuable, and that committee members were good and efficient stewards of the mountain.
The group meets five times a year. It coordinates volunteer efforts to help pick up trash, remove fallen trees and keep trails clear.
When there’s a big issue with the mountain it tackles that. When there’s not, the committee tackles smaller things. Currently it’s focused on the deteriorating stone wall along Prospect Road, a popular greenway that goes up the mountain.
So what is the big issue? That’s a great question. I left that meeting thinking the same thing.
November 20, 2012 - 1:24 AM
It’s all a non event if you’re asking me. Sounds like someone’s trying to make a mountain out of a Mill hill…
And speaking of the Roanoke City Council:
SOOOO, to resolve the problem of long lines in Roanoke City on election nights – the brainiacs on City Council decided to “fix” the problem:
“Two weeks after the election we’re still talking about problems at the polls. Item #3 on the Roanoke City Council meeting agenda Monday night was a plan to slash the number of voting precincts from 32 to 19.”
This brilliant idea would be a cost cutting measure of $10,000 out of the City’s 2012-2013 fiscal year budget of $252,920,000 – or the disenfranchising of voters for a paltry savings of 0.004 % .
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-naacp-voices-opposition-to-precinct-reduction-20121119,0,6788165.story
The biggest problem with city council is that most of the major problems are decided before the public meetings. Any citizen who thinks they will get a fair and honest action from this body is wrong. They play good cop bad cop to the emotions of those in attendance.As far as Bowers saying too much what shocking about that. I know that somethings need to be resolved in a non public forum but the idea of going to city council for help with a problem needs to be handled in public.
I love your term “Naval gazing”….I had been involved with the cities parks since 1999. I served two years back then on the Comprehensive Master Plan Committee. I had the best attendance of any member, including its chairperson. It was my suggestion that lead to the present Parks and Rec Advisory Committee. Several years ago city council appointed me to this committee. I only say all this for I think I am as qualified, even more so than some, if not most of council to put forth my opinion.
Rupert Cutler’s statement is quite accurate and is a well made point in tipping the scale for the committee, so is Mrs. Dye’s about their involvement and excellent attendance of its membership. At yesterday’s council discussion, a point was made in jest about keeping the Mill Mtn. Committee and getting rid of the Parks & Rec Advisory Committee. There some jesting merit to that comment…..Believe the Mayor stated that the city council appointed Parks & Rec. Advisory Committee only had a 55% attendance record….Well…..that is the fault of the Mayor and City Council. Why do they keep reappointing members who never show up as they have done? I was appalled at the abseeteism of the membership. I resigned due to confict of the meeting date corresponding with my Neighborhood Asso. Meeting night.
Someone made a suggestion that I heard as be the best potential for a solution for all.
The Mill Mtn. Committee should be just another neighborhood association just like any other neighborhood committee. Neighborhood Committee’s are not under the city council and pretty much do as they see fit. Should a major problem or issue arise, they then can take their issue before city council to appraise them of the issue and ask for support or help. As often happens, council members are free to drop in anytime they see fit. This solves one of the main reason the city is looking at reductions in committee’s and boards is to free up city staff from having to attend those meeting.
Talk about First World Problems.
Speaking of the voting line problems — voting officials claimed that the main problem was the limited number of poll books, which might have been true in some areas, particularly if the worker using the book wasn’t well trained. In my precinct, however, there were more than dozen people waiting for voting booth after checking in. IOW, the two women with the poll books were moving them faster than they could vote. NTL, I enjoyed meeting and talking with some new folks and seeing old friends while I waited in line.
That said, in some ways this is like the snow removal quandary. Do you buy extra equipment that will sit around unused or barely used just because you’re going to have a big storm (election) every several (four) years?
gdad…
Snowplows…great comparison.
…(and another what if..)Check this box if youd like a
dollar of your taxes to go toward buying more voting machines
and snacks while you are in line.
I think the computers actually slowed them down at check in, rather than speeding up the process. The computer print outs of old were not any slower than the folks struggling with the computer IMO.
Actually casting a ballot took some of us just seconds and some folks a full 5 minutes…
This was not a City Council intiation – this was brought to the council as a proposal from the AFRICAN AMERICAN registrar and the AFRICAN AMERICAN Chair of the electoral commission. The City Council had nothing to do with this notion and the idea it is an attempt to only save a few bucks or supress the vote is absurd.
Hey Dan, are you trying to tick off more FOFs (Friends of Fralins) by writing about this? The City Council evidently wanted and wants to keep the disbanding of the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee quiet.
I was trying to figure out what they did that was so important. Is it for denying Robert Fralin and Valley Forward development opportunities on Mill Mountain?
From (5/30/2007) http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/wb/xp-118736 we have “The heirs of J.D. Fishburn objected to the concept after the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee rejected it. … Others, led by Valley Forward, believe that Mill Mountain could be developed
On 5/2/2010 at http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/245375 we have Any proposal to develop the mountain would also require approval from a Circuit Court judge and would depend in part on the blessing of the four heirs of J.B. Fishburn … The Fishburn heirs said in 2008 that they would abide by the decision of the advisory committee, even though they opposed development on the mountain. Robert Fralin, chairman of Valley Forward, said last week that the Rockledge project remains in limbo because of land title issues.
“Until the Fishburn heirs collectively grant our city council the power to decide the fate of the mountain’s developable area, the project will stay on hold,” Fralin said.
“We continue to be perplexed and disappointed that the Fishburns will not allow the citizens to decide the future of the land by way of our elected officials,” he said.
“The Fishburns have clearly chosen to ignore democracy.”
What happened after the Fishburn heirs said no? From http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/172558 on 8/10/08 we see that concerning MMAC that Roanoke City Council instead has suggested to its members that it adopt bylaws, staggered terms, an odd number of members and even term limits. … Councilman David Trinkle said. “That approach keeps people with historical perspective but also allows for fresh faces.
Is it “fresh faces” he wanted or committee members amenable to Valley Forward’s plans?
Instead we see on 10/7/12 http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/casey/wb/315049 that the city council had adopted a “death by attrition approach” by deferring making appointments to the nine-member panel, which currently has four vacancies, while it deliberates over the committee’s future.
So maybe Bowers is actually concerned about Mill Mountain and doesn’t like the backroom methods of dismantling it? It says in the above 8/10/08 RT article that Mayor David Bowers, who campaigned against the Rockledge project this spring, declined to comment on the matter because it had previously been discussed by the council in a closed-door session.
Who else was on the city council in 2008? Gwen Mason was. It was announced on 3/4/09 http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/196673 that Roanoke City Councilwoman Gwen Mason officially announced this afternoon that she’s running to succeed retiring Del. William Fralin in the General Assembly.
i suspect that there is a much higher percentage of urban cities which do not function smoothly compared to those that do.
why is that?
is it because more urban cities are run by republicans?
What are you smoking Frank?
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/110074/the-gop-can%E2%80%99t-afford-ignore-cities-anymore#
http://bettercities.net/news-opinion/blogs/robert-steuteville/19152/electorate-becomes-urban-%E2%80%94-will-republican-party-adapt
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/11/political-map-weve-been-waiting/3908/
“Some of the anger from cities this election season rightly pointed out that Republican Party leaders go out of their way to mock them. They denigrate urban ideas and populations because this has repeatedly proven an effective way to gin up enthusiasm among their base (case in point: watch this great Jon Stewart takedown of Fox News on Election Day, when the network breathlessly reported the same story 21 times of a lone black man patrolling a polling place in Philadelphia!). Republicans famously went so far as to come out against cities in their party platform. And they conveniently abandoned their sacred values of personal freedom and local rule when patronizing the people of the District of Columbia (who went on, not surprisingly, to give 91 percent of their vote to the president).”
Where are these urban cities run by Republicans you speak of?
sandi,
what’s not to mock about washington, dc, and roanoke and norfolk, virginia?
oh my goodness, sandi!
…my question concerning “Republicans and cities” was, like, rhetorical. The answer to my question was obviously “no”.
None of the failed cities are run by Republicans, silly.
sandi,
The title to this thread is rhetorical as well, sooo, stop gazing at your navel, and focus.
Define “failed”?
Making it up as you go along is not something you do well Frank.
Frank…
Urban City??? as to differentiate from
a Rural City?
Do elaborate.
hey joie,
I wouldn’t consider Chesapeake, an urban city, nor Salem, nor Charlottesville, nor Colonial Heights, nor etc. Duh.
Come back when you’re done being stupid.
“Come back when you’re done being stupid.”
Really, Frank? Stupid as in making up your own definitions to words? If you don’t know what “urban” means, fine, but stop making it up. Seriously, you need a break here.
Frank… did you get picked on a lot in school? Are you the only child?
#19 Frank, buddy:
urban: characteristic of or constituting a city.
That makes all those places you named “urban.”
Jeez.
kristen, is the City of Salem considered “urbanized”? no. is the City of Colonial Heights considered “urbanized”? no.
have you ever heard anyone say, “i live in the suburbs outside of salem…” …you ditz.
hey sandi,
how ’bout…, let’s see…, how ’bout Stockton, Camden, Hamtramck MI, Patterson, Chicago, and Harrisburg. for a start.
#24 Uhh, Frank, I have a friend who wanted to live near Salem but didn’t want to live in Salem, so she chose the Glenvar area. And there are indeed suburbs on the edge of Salem that aren’t in the city proper.
Ditz? Lmao
“Urban” does not mean “black”. I think that’s the word you’re so ineptly groping for.
I guess it’s because of my field, but urban, urbanized, rural, etc…they have drastically different meanings from what some people think. For me, they fall along the US Census definitions, which are simply based on population criteria.
Technically speaking, any built up area with dense population qualifies, at minimun, as an urban cluster if it has more than 2500 residents…and an urbanized area if it’s over 50,000. Rural areas are locations that fall outside of those definitions. Pulaski is considered an urban cluster, so is Radford. Salem is grouped in with Roanoke as an urbanized area.
See the following for the official designation around the state, based on the 2000 Census…
http://www.vdh.state.va.us/healthpolicy/primarycare/documents/rural/Census2000Rural-UrbanAreas.pdf
And, having grown up in Hampton Roads…the northern half of Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are both quite urban, though they are technically suburbs of Norfolk (despite higher population totals…Norfolk is still the economic hub). They are basically like Fairfax County, and I know of very few people who would not consider Fairfax to be ‘urban’…despite the fact that the county is essentially suburban subdivision sprawl with a few concentrated clusters of development.
Thanks for the clarifications, sometimes it does “take a village”.
“…did you get picked on a lot in school?”
Heck, Just False STILL gets picked on at school. Those mean ol’ VWCC students take no prisoners, eh?
yeah you go with THAT, gdud. “i wanna live in the suburbs of the City of Salem”. right. i hear that every day.
suburban is not urban. if it was, it would be called urban.
my earlier question to sandi in post 11 stands. notice that because sandi has no answer, and you libs are running to her rescue.
also notice that by and large, the City of Salem seems to run pretty well, at least in part (i think in large part) because it doesn’t have a partisan city council.
pick any down in the dumbs city (“urban” or not), and its very likely not run by a non-partisan council, or by republicans.
You do realize,frank, that without an “urban” area,by definition you can’t have a “suburban” one?
You’re so dumb that I’m beginning to think you’re just messing with us.
Kristen:
“You’re [Frank is] so dumb that I’m beginning to think you’re just messing with us.”
If he’s able to mess with the smart people on this board, he can’t be all that dumb.
Frank, you poor, poor man! Your “question” in #11, will “stand” for a long lonesome time. I have no idea why you “suspect” there is a “higher percentage of urban cities which do not function smoothly”. Since you do not seem to understand what urban means and only named 6 “urban cities” to back up your ‘suspicion’, I have no earthly idea what you are getting at.
Here is a list of 497 urban areas, maybe you can formulate a thought and bring it back for discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas
well, kristen, i really do think we should move the discussion over to urban cores, then after that, we tackle un-incorporated towns…
hey kristen, regarding your post #26…i wasn’t searching for any word. however, your word, “inept” fits with the type of city governance which unfortunately many of our city dwellers actually vote for.
Good ol’ Newark, NJ is in the news today.
Do you know anything about Stockton, CA? Hamtramck, MI? How about Harrisburg?
Kristen..I dont think thats the case..
He made a fool of himself and is in quite deep..
but entrenched much like Suzie spends many days.
When you dig your heels in when you have absolutely no
bullets and less powder makes life tough while you’re in that hole.
hey joe, ….what? What do you know about Harrisburg, Joe? Who runs it? Why’s it broke? It’s a city, AND it’s urbanized….did that penetrate?
Joe:
“When you dig your heels in when you have absolutely no
bullets and less powder makes life tough while you’re in that hole.”
George Costanza would be proud.
#31 Poor Frankie realizes he’s screwed up again and so he has to keep shoveling.
Frank…
Are you suggesting that there is something unique
about Harrisburg that makes it uniquely an urbanized city.
Frank..just face it..you are not really now nor have never been
a great study of words. For someone to try to advance the
term “Urbanized City ” shows something akin to Suzie’s capacity to
make themselves a human dartboard.
Regarding the Roanoke City Council and Mill Mountain Advisory Committee, outside prospective companies look at they way the Roanoke City Council acts and projects itself and head straight to Charlotte.