Tuesday’s column: Roanoke’s loss is California’s gain
Calif. House Majority Leader Toni Atkins, who grew up in Roanoke, stopped by the Texas Tavern during a visit here to see her sister for Thanksgiving. TT owner Matt Bullington is in the background, on the right. | Shot by Dan
You already know there are many political differences between Virginia and California. Allow me to highlight just one.
In Virginia, the House of Delegates this year refused to confirm an impeccably credentialed lawyer as a lower court judge — because he’s gay. They had a big and ugly fight about it.
In the California Assembly, meanwhile, the majority leader is a married lesbian, one of two wedded gay lawmakers in that state. Her name is Toni Atkins. She grew up in Roanoke’s Old Southwest neighborhood. She’s a 1980 graduate of Patrick Henry High School.
Atkins, 50, was here last week with her spouse, Jennifer LeSar, visiting Atkins’ twin sister Tina Phillips for Thanksgiving. I learned this Wednesday night in a call from my brother John, who lives in Sacramento, Calif. A few minutes later, I was on the phone with Atkins, arranging a Thanksgiving morning meeting.
“Where should we meet?” she said. I tried to think of a good landmark for someone who hasn’t spent a lot of time here since 1985.
“How about the Texas Tavern?” I said.
“Oh my God, I love that place!” she gushed.
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
November 27, 2012 - 6:00 AM
Dan, I’m just glad you finally addressed the real question concerning Ms. Atkins and her visit to Roanoke—-what she ordered at Texas Tavern!
“One of her history teachers was Robert Porterfield, who she said hewed to the John Birch school of politics.
“He taught us to be afraid when we went to college because the liberal professors would indoctrinate us,” Atkins chuckled.”
Absolutely true. He also posted the Pink Sheet on his bulletin board and was a huge fan of Nazi Germany history. And he was a good history teacher, probably the best at PH then. At the start of the year you put the assigned book in a closet and he lectured. You could also borrow books from his personal library of thousands.
“We talked for a while about growing up in Roanoke in the 1970s, and how a self-described redneck from Southwest Virginia ended up as one of the most powerful politicians in America’s largest state.”
I thought you said she was from California?
Last I checked, Alaska is still America’s Largest State.
I bet you meant most populous.
Kudos to Toni Atkins, and Kudos to you, Dan. Roanoke, in many ways, is a wonderful place to live and work and raise a family, but I have always travelled with my family outside the region to help my sons see that the US is truly a land of diversity and opportunity. Ms. Atkins is a shining example! What a positive way to start the day.
Dan, how sweet of you to write this piece just for Henry.
.
Ms. Atkins seems like a nice lady. Dan, did you happen to ask her why California has more debt than Greece? Did you ask her how they got to that position with the highest overall tax rates in the country? Did you ask her despite enormous natural resources, huge revenue streams and some of our most profitable corporations, why are they in such a fiscal mess? I would have found your article in today’s paper much more interesting if you had.
“Ms. Atkins seems like a nice lady. Dan, did you happen to ask her why California has more debt than Greece? Did you ask her how they got to that position with the highest overall tax rates in the country? Did you ask her despite enormous natural resources, huge revenue streams and some of our most profitable corporations, why are they in such a fiscal mess? I would have found your article in today’s paper much more interesting if you had.”
–Comment by Another Chuck
AC, I only have so much room for my columns (this one was a bit longer than normal), and if I delved into those topics, it would have been at the expense of local stuff, AND THEN BobH would have been on my case that the column wasn’t “Metro” enough. I can’t win, I tell you.
We talked briefly about those subjects, and I have talked about them at length with my brother, who has worked as a chief of staff for a California senator for the past 12 years (that guy, Alan Lowenthal, was recently elected to Congress, and John agonizingly declined to follow him to Capitol Hill — long story).
Anyway, California is indeed in a debt mess. It’s because they’ve been financing their operations with borrowing (bond bills) BECAUSE they need a supermajority to pass a budget or any tax increase and the Democrats haven’t had one. So, they have borrowed to meet their obligations, which is a read BAD strategy.
I would note that Virginia, under Gov. Bob McDonnell, has begun to emulate this practice in the area of VDOT, rather than raise gas taxes and operate it as pay-as-you-go. That is a real bad strategy, too, but we are nowhere near in the fix (yet) that California is. Hopefully we’ll never get there.
Dan, thanks for the reply. So your proposed solution is to have a super-majority of Democrats elected so they can raise taxes? California already has the hightest overall tax rates in the country and the solution is to make them higher? I trust you are aware that businesses and citizes will reach a point regarding tax levels in which they will move. Many business have moved already! I believe unreasonable pension obligations are the biggest problem. How about massive spending cuts?
Another thing, If Obama gets his spiteful(because it only funds 4-8 days of government) wish of raising taxes on those making over $250K, how do think that will affect Californians. When you have to pay $1 million for an average house in many areas, $250K doesn’t go very far and certainly does qualify you as “rich” in most of CA.
Don’t forget that California has been laboring under the horrid legacy of “Proposition 13, the 1978 initiative that launched a national anti-tax revolt by capping property levies”. Some of the richest real estate in the world could not bring in the increased revenue as it does for most every other state and locality in this nation and it has hurt California badly. Which is why they supported Proposition 30 in this past election to start undoing some of that real and lasting damage. They are not Greece, they let democracy rule and it hurt the entire state.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/California-Tax-Vote-Shows-State-Tires-of-4020175.php
Another Chuck,
The Dems in California will have that supermajority beginning in 2013, but they will have to be careful the way they exercise it and they know that. My conversation with Toni Atkins touched on this.
The problems in California date back 34 years to the passage of proposition 13, which was pushed by Howard Jarvis, the tax-hating, cigar-smoking, vodka-drinking landlord (who was also the unintentional father of California’s rent control laws).
It drastically tied the hands of local governments in levying adequate property taxes to fund basic government operations like education, police, firefighting, etc. So the state had to step in to make up a lot of difference — and then, other propositions were passed limiting the General Assembly’s ability to enact budgets or raise taxes. This is the source of most of the debt California has taken on, which is significant.
The bright spot is that, just as voters approved a super majority of Democrats in the legislature who won’t necessarily be hamstrung by those latter initiatives, voters there ALSO — by referendum — approved a $6 billion per year tax increase. It won 54-46 percent.
Perhaps — just perhaps — that will drive businesses out of the the nation’s most populous state. We’ll see. But if the tax increase had not passed, other factors would have driven them out anyway. There are some towns there that have disbanded their police forces.
Fyi, one of the things Atkins pointed out to me is that Dems won’t have an effective supermajority in the legislature until 2014, because some (D) members of the legislature were elected to Congress, and special elections for those seats need to be held. So little “radical,” if that’s what you want to call it, is likely to happen there next year.
The Proposition 13 situation is interesting and I was unaware of that. But, didn’t subsequent elected officials since 1978 have the ability to legistatively eliminate that Proposition? If so, doesn’t that mean that California has been very poorly managed by their elected officials?
States with the highest tax burdens in the nation:
New Jersey at 11.8% of income
New York at 11.7% of income
Connecticut at 11.1% of income
Maryland at 10.8% of income
Hawaii at 10.6% of income
California isn’t one of the top ten most taxed states in the nation
AC, a proposition is an initiative. It was a referendum, passed by voters, that became law (Virginia does not have this, thank god). The California legislature is unable to overturn those, under its constitution.
I believe there were efforts at subsequent initiatives to repeal/overturn/alter it. Those failed.
“States with the highest tax burdens in the nation:
New Jersey at 11.8% of income
New York at 11.7% of income
Connecticut at 11.1% of income
Maryland at 10.8% of income
Hawaii at 10.6% of income
California isn’t one of the top ten most taxed states in the nation.”
Not only that, Shrill, but California not too long ago HAD a structural deficit in the $40 billion range. That has been brought down to $1 billion — UNDER THE DEMOCRATS.
The next budget they pass will be their first balanced budget in years.
Anothr Chuck:
“Dan, did you happen to ask her why California has more debt than Greece? Did you ask her how they got to that position with the highest overall tax rates in the country? Did you ask her despite enormous natural resources, huge revenue streams and some of our most profitable corporations, why are they in such a fiscal mess?”
Or why California has the tightest gun control and highest Brady score, 81, and still the most homicides?
Dan:
13.”AC, a proposition is an initiative. It was a referendum, passed by voters, that became law (Virginia does not have this, thank god).”
Yes, Dan wouldn’t want to see the majority of people be able to fashion their government in the way they want without the parliamentary efforts of a few to promote special interests.
“Yes, Dan wouldn’t want to see the majority of people be able to fashion their government in the way they want without the parliamentary efforts of a few to promote special interests.”
JW, I believe (sincerely) that you’re misunderstanding the problem with initiatives. The problem with them is, they allow well-funded groups with specific interests to hijack the lawmaking process in a state.
They almost lead to government by plebiscite, in which the most talented and monied Joe Goebbels can roll over sane, rational and ethical elected officials. And there is absolutely no ethical requirements for these special interests, unlike with elected officials, who are evaluated by voters.
Let me put the question this way: Do you believe Mayor Bloomberg should be able to put his money behind a plebiscite that would outlaw all guns in New York City?
Dan and Shrillary, I said highest overall tax rate. Californians are also subjected to an 8.5% sales tax and a .50 per gallon state gas tax, plus some other crazy California only taxes. We can argue the details about actual tax dollars paid all day long, but I believe we all agree CA is a high tax state. It seems to me that proposition 13 is the only reason many folks and businesses can afford to stay there. They have to spend less!
Why do you want to make excuses for CA and Barack Obama? We elect these leaders to make prudent, large picture tough decisions. No more excuses. By the way, I lump Bush 43 in the same fiscal policy leadership catagory as do CA and Obama.
“Or why California has the tightest gun control and highest Brady score, 81, and still the most homicides?”
Gee, I’ll bite. The border with Mexico?
Another Chuck
The states’ percentages included ALL taxes in each of the states… sales, income, property, fuel etc. CA still is not listed in the top 10 highest taxed states.
Kind of contradicts this statement of yours, “California already has the hightest overall tax rates in the country and the solution is to make them higher?”
When Gov Brown (D) took office, the CA budget deficit left by Gov Schwarzenegger (R) was $27 billion. The CA budget deficit is presently somewhere around $2 billion. Remind me again how republicans are fiscally responsible…
I think mayor Bloomberg is more concerned about Coke the soda than coke the drug. Kristen, are suggesting we need or have needed much stronger border control? If so, I’m right there with ya.
California is the primary state example of what you get in a progressive/liberal society…unsustainable spending that ultimately kills the middle-class. See Western Europe for a more graphic example. Coming to a city near you soon!
AnotherChuck, I think dumping the failed “War on Drugs” would do the trick.
Shillary, for me, this is not a dem/GOP contest. Most states by law are required to have abalanced budget, not sure about CA though? I am a fiscal libertarian. Both major parties disgust me although the GOP disgust me slightly less.
JW,
Take heed of Dan’s words of 4:17, before you know it folks like Bloomberg will be outlawing “sugary drinks” without the will of the people.
Kristen, re: 5:02… are you disparaging those who wish to come here to make a better life for themselves? Or are you suggesting that some Mexicans run across the border just to shoot us gringos?
“See Western Europe for a more graphic example.”
Austerity is a right-wing invention.
Another Chuck – so which is it?
1. “California is the primary state example of what you get in a progressive/liberal society”
or
2. “for me, this is not a dem/GOP contest.”
Seems to me someone isn’t be consistent nor honest.
mikeo, I referenced the war on drugs.
11.”The Proposition 13 situation is interesting and I was unaware of that” comment by Another Chuck
That preety much explains why AC doesn’t grasp the California situation. He limits his opinion to whatever he randomly knows already.
AC, have you ever lived in California? Have you ever even visited there?
pretty much
hey dano,
What does toni think about the new GM Sparky? Does she know what the electricity cost is to recharge the battery, say, for a daily use of 40 miles? Does she drive one…
Art Hill, so the problem with Western Eurpoe is the GOP driven economic policy of austerity? Actually, I have no idea what to say about that other than to ask you if you function within the parameters of spending less than or equal to what you earn or have? One thing I know for a fact, the citizens of Greece understand, is that if you don’t produce more than you spend, eventually the well runs dry.
California is an example of Liberalism run amok.
“I have no idea what to say about that…”
I’m not at all surprised.
Another Chuck, comparing the economy, infrastructure, and obligations of the United States to Greece is like comparing the economy, infrastructure, and obligations of Roanoke, Va. to New Castle, Va.
You’re clueless.
Dan:
“Do you believe Mayor Bloomberg should be able to put his money behind a plebiscite that would outlaw all guns in New York City?”
He still has a US Constitution to honor that should preempt such.
Another Chuck:
“California is an example of Liberalism run amok.”
+1
Dan to John Wilburn: “Do you believe Mayor Bloomberg should be able to put his money behind a plebiscite that would outlaw all guns in New York City?”
John Wilburn: “He still has a US Constitution to honor that should preempt such.”
JW, correct me if I’m wrong — and I’m not trying to put words in your mouth — but now you seem to be saying there are circumstances under which the majority of people SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY be able to fashion their government in the way they want.
And if I’m not mistaken you disagreed with me earlier precisely for suggesting that.
Dan:
“but now you seem to be saying there are circumstances under which the majority of people SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY be able to fashion their government in the way they want.”
There must be some set of ground rules for civilization. We have those – the Constitution. If the majority of people don’t agree with it, we should seek to amend it. The states must honor it (or secede).
As for the proposition question, that’s up to the states and you are right in that it has obvious pitfalls. If we had that here, we would have made some strides in gun rights in some areas. Thinking about it, I guess it is too scary to advocate, though. It is likely only a little cheaper to buy influence with that system than what we have now.
Warren, since you think I’m clueless comparing the US to Greece, I will use the subject state of this article. California vs Greece. Both are classic examples of western European socialism. Game on.
California is also the most populated state as over 37 million people seem to like that “liberalism” just fine. That is 12 million more than the next most populated, Texas, and New York, that other state of “liberalism” is #3.
http://voices.yahoo.com/2010-us-census-10-most-populated-states-nation-7454524.html
Is “California vs Greece” a sentence?
http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20100401/FREE/100409997
“California vs Greece? No contest, say bond buyers
Borrowing costs falling for Sacremento, while yields on Greek debt continue to rise; ‘investors voting with their feet’”
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/5-graphs-that-show-how-crazy-it-is-to-compare-california-to-greece/260939/
“And among a certain set of conservatives, there seems to be a feeling that states are just one extra medicaid payment away from getting savaged by the world’s bond markets. California has its economic problems. But they’re not that bad. Just ask Europe.”
Yes, I think “clueless” was being kind.
#37: “California vs Greece. Both are classic examples of western European socialism. Game on.”
The writer of those words, not quite Socrates’ heir, locates Bakersfield in Europe.
“The Wisest Man Of Greece. So the Delphic oracle pronounced Socrates to be, and Socrates modestly made answer, “ ‘Tis because I alone of all the Greeks know that I know nothing.”(Source: Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, E. Cobham Brewer, 1894)
Tilt. Game Over.