We have a bit o’ debate on the Post(s) of the Day!
Note from Dan: Our Post of the Day begin with a comment from 
John Wilburn, the small business-owning gun advocate and frequent poster on this blog. He was addressing undecided voter (and frequent poster) J.M. White. Wilburn wrote a short rant criticizing President Obama. And that was answered by White, whose much long response follows.
From John Wilburn:” J.M. White, for whatever it’s worth, there are plenty of ridiculous literal beliefs in virtually ALL of the religions. Christians are supposed to profess that the story of Noah’s Ark literally happened. I wouldn’t hold Romney’s religious nuttery against him any more than another candidate who claims to be a Christian. The debt is unforgivable. The two Supreme Court appointments were unfogivable. Yes, Romney sucks and was my close to my last pick of the 2012 Republican slate, but the prospect of $20,000,000,000,000 of still growing debt, a promised forecast of more gun control, and chancing the makeup of the Supreme Court to Obama is not a smart vote, IMO.
Of course, your mileage may vary and you’ll get ten tons more unsolicited input that makes another argument. But, November 6th is coming up quickly and it’s no one’s vote but yours….. Choose WISELY.”
From J.M. White: “John W, I know about the many religious nutteries out there and I did say that that shouldn’t necessarily preclude him from high office. I do have a problem with Christians acceptance of his religion, however, as it’s purely and simply a bastardization of Protestant Christianity. As such, it should be considered blasphemy by them. One hundred years earlier and Joseph Smith would’ve been considered a heretic and likely executed. Yet here they are, endorsing a man who only three hundred years ago they would’ve been considered an agent of Satan and burned him at the stake. That’s neither here nor there when it comes to how he’d conduct himself in office, of course.
You’re absolutely right, the debt is unforgivable. In my opinion, it was also unavoidable. Several trillion of that debt was deferred from the items that were kept off the books by the previous administration. Another several trillion were needed to pull our economy out of a death spiral. None of that would change under Romney. Deep down, do you honestly think that it would? BOTH sides of the aisle have become addicted to money they don’t have and isn’t theirs to take. And the greed is the problem.
Here are the problems I have with Romney:
• He’s shown a blatant disregard for rules and customs on countless occasions. The debates are one instance (though they were both guilty of it). His tax returns are another. The list is extensive.
• He’s shown that the truth is relative in his world. The things he has distorted and outright lied about during this campaign are outrageous. He doesn’t give apologies when he’s exposed, either; he gives excuses and tries to spin and contort things until the questioner gives up.
To be fair, Obama has exhibited those same traits on occasion. His performance has been more than lacking in many areas. But there are two more things on my list that are frightening in the context of a man who’ll be running this nation:
• He’s shown that he has the spine of a jellyfish. He’s twisted and turned and flipped and flopped so many times and in so many different directions that I don’t know if I’m watching a campaign or a game of Twister. Watch his eyes when he talks. He’s got the look of man who wants you to believe what he’s saying no matter what it is and even if it’s in direct contradiction to something he said previously.
• He’s shown that greed and pride still consume him. Almost all of his plans are geared toward his rich buddies, not the average American citizen. He brags about his wealth, wealth accumulated on the backs of those beneath him, as if it qualifies him to be responsible for the governing of over 330 million people. Not once during this campaign has he thanked or even acknowledged the people who got him to where he is. “I did this” and “I did that” and “I’ll do this” are all I hear. That tells me that he sees us as nothing more than a means to an end. It also tells me that he won’t hesitate to burden us peasants with the real costs of his ambitions.
If I make a list of the pros and cons of each candidate, the “pros” columns are about the same, but the “cons” column is much longer for Romney than it is for Obama.
That doesn’t mean that Romney can’t still get my vote; it just means that he’s going to have to really work for it and zero hour is almost here. I don’t trust the real Obama, but I don’t know the real Romney. Mitt’s made damned sure that none of us do.”
November 1, 2012 - 3:01 PM
Frank mixed me up with all of his talk...
Romney proves that anyone, as long as Daddy has enough money, can aspire to whatever they want to do in America.
JM, buddy, just your lengthy reply rebutting many of Wilburn’s points tells me you’ve already made up your mind. It is obvious that you think Obama is the lesser of two evils. But, there’s always Virgil Goode……
O.K. Dan..I guess I`ll have to agree with you on Global warming for once….sitting U.S. Senator Menendez(D) seems to have been caught warming up a whore in South America…As you might imagine, his office has `No comment`…seems, according to the responsible media, that Menendez has gone into hiding.
K:
1.”Romney proves that anyone, as long as Daddy has enough money, can aspire to whatever they want to do in America.”
Obama proves that anyone, so long as the masses are large, dumb, and lazy enough, can be elected president. Also, GWB proved your point long before Romney.
“JM, buddy, just your lengthy reply rebutting many of Wilburn’s points tells me you’ve already made up your mind. It is obvious that you think Obama is the lesser of two evils. But, there’s always Virgil Goode……”
This comment brings up a great point – is voting for the lesser of two evils the best answer? Or, same question, different wording – is voting for a third party candidate throwing away your vote?
That is something I have been debating with for some time now. I’m not sold on the fact that President Obama deserves a second term, and since I would rather punch Romney in his smug face than punch a ballot for him, I find myself at a crossroad. Do I vote for the President, despite my hesitations, knowing that I would prefer to see him in office over Romney, or do I vote for a third party candidate whose views more closely match mine, yet is not a viable candidate for the office?
Ah, yes. Democratic scandals often involve sex. Republican scandals often involve money. Other people’s money. As in fraud, misappropriation and downright theft of other people’s money.
From where I sit, religion is never going to be a deciding factor on candidates cause they all have elements that are crazy. This includes Obama’s church in Chicago and the pastor Wright. Mormonism is especially crazy only because it happened in times when it’s relatively easy to document the pathway to a modern myth.
Still, I’ve read accounts of Romney as good man in personal situations, but I fear that his moral compass will most likely be guided by magnetic field of the far right, and I just don’t roll that way.
God knows Republicans have never been caught in sex scandals.
http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2010/07/9600/
It doesn’t make what Menendez is accused of right, but I wouldn’t crow too loudly about it when your side isn’t innnocent and chaste.
“Sitting U.S. Senator Menendez(D) seems to have been caught warming up a whore in South America…As you might imagine, his office has `No comment`…seems, according to the responsible media, that Menendez has gone into hiding.”
Jeff Doto,
1) The senator’s office said “we’re not going to respond to a completely false accusation.”
2) The Dominican Republic is not in South America.
3) The senator is unmarried.
4) Prostitution in the Dominican Republic is not illegal.
So what do we know?
1) We have a rebuttal that bears the whiff of a nondenial;
2) If the senator cavorted with a prostitute, he violated no marital vows; and
3) He broke no laws.
As for #2 and #3, I would add: Unlike Louisiana Sen. David Vitter!
BUT, there are still many questions left unanswered. For example, there’s the question of whether the senator took illegally prescribed Viagra down to the DR, like Rush Limbaugh did when he went there some years back!
Thank you J.M White for bringing up that 800lb gorilla sitting quietly in the corner…
The Christian card Romney and Team is playing drives me crazy. I shared on an earlier tread about my 81 year old Mom getting bushwhacked by “Christian” neighbor as she hobbled back to her house from her mailbox. The neighbor told her that he couldn’t understand how she can be a Christain and vote for Obama.
I shared that story on my FB page and the “Christians” basically agreed that Romney is the Christain choice.
I guess in this day and age, Christ’s message about caring for the poor, the elderly, widows, orphans and the sick has been lost to church buildings, family life centers (gyms) which is ok so long as they are anti-abortion (but don’t lift a finger to help a woman in a crisis pregnancy.
I challenge Christians on this blog to show me where Christ supported a political cause.
Christ did not support a political cause. He separated politics from the things of GOD. He said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto GOD the things that are GOD’S.
Dan has provided the Democrat cover spin for Senator Menendez. Good old Dan, the company man.
Did you notice that Sen Menendez condemned the Secret Service guys for the same thing?
Hey Dan, ever notice how Menendez is a US senator and Limbaugh is just a journalist?
” The things he has distorted and outright lied ”
Yeah yeah yeah. (Yawn) Same stuff you guys used on Bush. It just doesn’t mean anything any more when you accuse EVERY Republican of lying. Sexist, racist, homophobe. Tax cuts for the wealthy. Draconian cuts on Medicare and Social Security.
Whatever.
A lie is when you say you didn’t have sex with that woman when you really DID have sex with that woman. It’s even worse when you do it under oath in court.
But like the Democrats said in 1998. Everyone lies.
K, Bush proved that over a decade ago.
Re: “I don’t trust the real Obama, but I don’t know the real Romney.”
I understand this statement, and believe I would go for he which I might believe, rather than he who I know I can’t trust.
Romney is pragmatic, we have had enough of myopic politicians.
Maybe our country needs a few years of “fixing” before we go back to “politics as usual”.
How many Republicans in office, you know the party of moral values, have been involved in sex scandals, Henry? That high horse you’re on has a slippery back.
Dan C. has an excellent point. It’s a little late for Republicans to get hot and bothered about prostitutes and senators. Vitter is still in the U.S. Senate, right? Republicans haven’t made him leave since his well-publicized prostitution scandal, have they?
Some democrat banging a hooker on another continent isn’t getting Obama one vote. It does illustrate the right’s ongoing fascination with other people’s reproductive organs though.
Mikeo, “pragmatic” means picking the appropriate action at the appropriate moment without being limited by partisan ideology. It does not mean telling everyone what you think they want to hear.
JohnW, I partially agree with you. A country dumb enough to put the Bush/Cheney tumor back in the White House for a second term is liable to do anything.
Oops, meant Romney, but I bet everyone’s figured that out.
Dan R, meet Kristen. Kristen, Dan. Ya’ll pick a side to be on.
Dan R, and Kristen,
I do still want to know if the senator took a phony scrip for Viagra down there, tho. Just for the Limbaugh laugh factor.
Bloomberg endorses Obama over “head in the sand” Romney because of the latter’s stance on reducing federal aid to states for natural disaster aid and his failure to acknowledge climate change.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/nyregion/bloomberg-endorses-obama-saying-hurricane-sandy-affected-decision.html?hp
Good grief. Why does brevity not reside in my fingertips?
One of the AdChoices on the right-hand side of this page:
“Are You Writing A Book?”
lol
——————-
Alfred: Indeed I do think that Obama is the lesser of two evils. Or more properly, the devil I know vs. the one I don’t. As far as Goode is concerned, I’ve met the man on several occasions and something is just… off about him. Some of his policy ideas are good and some of them are more than suspect. To be honest, I haven’t properly investigated his platform and I might consider him more closely over the next couple of days.
Hootiefish feels a lot like I do and is much more succinct in conveying it. As far as throwing my vote away, I don’t believe that’s even possible when you vote. A vote is still a vote, no matter for whom it was cast. The only time you throw it away is if you choose not to use it at all.
——————–
If Romney is elected, he’ll spend the two of the next four years running for reelection, just like Obama. Things won’t get done. If Obama is reelected, he’ll have four years to do his job without the distraction of any campaigns. The pure obstructionists holding government office and crippling this nation from progress will then expose themselves and we can release them back into the wild in their next respective elections. That doesn’t mean that either one of them has my vote. It’s simply open research and logical thought into whether a change in leadership will be the best thing for this country right now. We’re so fragile right now that a return to the policies that never worked the first time might just result in doom for our great nation.
Yes, there are many questions to be asked.
Yes, there are too few answers to be found.
I’m losing sleep over an election for the first time in my life. It is that important to me.
@ #5 Hootiefish, I hear you. Back in the day, I was a Nader supporter and I was always in the position you describe when it came time to vote. I never pulled the lever for him, even though he had my heart, because when you are considering the lesser of two evils, you have to remember the stakes if enough people vote for the greater of two evils. I do not presume to tell anyone who to vote for unless they ask me, but I know the feeling of a lack of enthusiasm. I think we all do.
J.M. White should title this liberal diatribe “Lypocrisy”.
All of the points you make are manifested by Obama to a far greater degree
than Romney. Obama takes each a step further:
* “blatant disregard”. . .For the Constitution he swore to uphold.
* “relative truth”. . .Obama lies and people die. . .in Benghazi, Mexico and on the US Border.
* “spine of a jellyfish”. . .and narcisstic to boot; cannot except blame.
* “greed and pride”. . .Solyndra, Delphi, excessive vacations, and golf.
At the end you speak of not knowing the real Romney; yet you have not a clue who Obama really is (the records are sealed) or if he is even eligible for office.
This is pure Alinsky. . .accuse your opponent of your vices and evils.
One thing you cannot take from Romney is his record of accomplishment to
which Obama can make no such claim as he has failed. . .failed to reduce
the debt. . .failed to create jobs. . .failed to enforce the laws of the
USA. . .failed to provide security for America’s citizens. . .failed to uphold the honor and dignity of the office of POTUS. There is only one real candidate in this election and that is Romney. Obama is nothing more than a cheap imitation or traitorus imposter.
Then you add the little tweak of blaming Bush. When Moochelle breaks wind
in the WH and Obama notices. . .Moochelle blames Bush. Stink with this administration is unavoidable.
Don’t quit your day job. . .this lame post of the day is pure tripe.
Congratulations Dan; another loser “Potty of the Day”.
Yeah yeah yeah. (Yawn) Same stuff you guys used on Bush. It just doesn’t mean anything any more when you accuse EVERY Republican of lying. Sexist, racist, homophobe. Tax cuts for the wealthy. Draconian cuts on Medicare and Social Security.
Whatever.
Comment by Henry — November 1, 2012 @ 6:07 pm
Dear Presumptuous Jackleg:
I voted for Bush, BOTH times. About halfway through his second term, (when everything started unraveling under his watch and I saw what was going to happen to the housing market) I told people that Bush knew there was no chance in hell of a Republican getting the presidency in ’08. I predicted, then watched it unfold as he methodically and systematically did everything in his power to ensure that the next president would have almost insurmountable obstacles placed in front of him. Bush set the next guy up to fail and anyone with a minute ability of logical deduction could see it happening as it happened. In my eyes, that is virtually treason. Putting personal agendas and vendettas above the welfare of a nation you are sworn to protect and claim to love is unconscionable. I didn’t leave the GOP; it left me.
I accuse every politician of lying, Henry. All of them. They’re nothing but smiley glad-hands and empty rhetoric. In fact, I think a polygraph should be mandatory for all candidates. The voting public should at least be able to know if the candidates believe their own BS.
So you can take that “you guys” crap and stuff it back where it belongs.
1 k
WHY are libbies so hung up on other people’s money? you REALLY need counseling on your jealousy issues there babe.
“Some democrat banging a hooker on another continent isn’t getting Obama one vote”
oh I see kristen here doesnt mind paying for it either..
The only problem I have with Goode is he sounds way too much like Ward Burton!
Leon, king of the Tea Party, I always know I can count on you to wrote something “interesting” … and wrong, false, etc.
#30 The only problem I have with Goode is he sounds way too much like Ward Burton!
Ha. Good one Dan. Not the only problem I have with Goode, but its as “goode” as any.
Leon is utterly comical. I like his made-up word, lypocrisy, though, even though he didn’t come up with it. It’s too bad he doesn’t know what it means or where to properly use it. Nothing I wrote here is a lie, nor is any of it hypocrisy in any definition of the word. I think he just likes using it at least once a day.
Try a word-a-day calendar, my friend. You might be able to expand your vocabulary a bit and not look so foolish.
Romney has only been successful in exploiting the little people to make his fortune and achievements. He just as quickly abandoned them and claims he did it all on his own. To be clear, I have no problem with making a fortune on the backs of those beneath you; I have a real problem with acting like those people don’t exist and had nothing to do with your success once you get there. If you call that “accomplishment”, you’re severely misguided.
#26 Leon,
“This is pure Alinsky. . .accuse your opponent of your vices and evils.”
I swear to God it cracks me up that no liberal I know has ever even heard of, much less read Saul Alinsky but right ‘tards like Leon seem to be Alinsky scholars. I’m sure the irony is lost here ; God knows Leon never let a little thing like a fact get in his way.
Hey, Leon, is it “pure Alinsky” if I accuse my opponent of being an asshat?
Bill Perdue,
Because I feel (rightly or wrongly) that you are honestly questioning and not just trying for a “gotcha”. I will do my best to respond, without quoting scripture etc…..just my beliefs as I see them for your consideration.
Starting this, I have to admit a few things.
One, I am not attempting to be “holier than Thou” in anything I say…I wlll readily admit that I am a sinner, just like everyone else, I have my struggles, my habits, and I don’t live the life that even most Christians think I should…I smoke, I live with my boyfriend without being marrried, I rarely go to Church etc. I look at my relationship with God as Him being a “loving, fogiving Father”..one who will and does punish me when needed, who is probably withholding some “blessings” from me because of my sins..but will not stop “loving” me because of them.
Two, I too, struggle with the notion that a Christian could support Obama..I just don’t see how that can possibly be…I’ll get back to that.
Three, I am not sure I understand your last sentance….I know that I, personally, have never had the idea that Christ supported any “political causes”..quite the contrary in fact. Of what “political causes” do you speak? Please get back to me on that.
In the meantime, I will try to address the rest of your post.
Probably the MAIN reason I do not think that a Christian can support Obama is his stance on abortion. I don’t think that God would ever condone the killing of His most precious creation. I said I wouldn’t quote the Bible, and I won’t, but there are instances where God mentions that He knows us in our wombs, when John the Baptist lept in his mother’s womb when someone mentioned the Messiah who was coming. Even modern science continues to teach us how aware and responsive pre-born babies are to the world outside their Mother’s womb. I don’t beleive that God would EVER agree with anyone who would consider that His creation should e thought of as an inconvenience, or a punishment, to be torn from the designed haven of it’s Mother’s womb to die in agony….for ANY reason. as I’ve mentioned before….and as Suzie has stated so well..what circumstance that occured during the conception of that life stops it from being a life?…an innocent life. So no, sorry, I just can’t believe that a Christian would be on the side of the ones saying that they should be able to kill that life for any reason they may deem necessary. When Obama came out so strongly in favor of abortion, and even went so far as to say that babies who survived an abortion attemp should be left to die..well, that just sort of adds insult to injuy so to speak.
When you speak of the teachings of Christ as to taking care of the poor, widows, orphans etc….can I present my own challenge? Please show ME where Christ ever taught that we should pay taxes to the Government and then let the Kings, or the Pharoahs take care of the poor…or redistribute your neighbor’s money or property and give THAT to the poor..or go find some rich guy, steal HIS money and give it to the poor.? No, Christ taught that “charity” is a personal responsibility, for which one would receive ( and give) a personal blessing. It seems that in every instance in the Bible where people had to give the fruits of their labors to the Kings and the Pharohs to “take care of all the people”..those people were slaves..begging God to deliver them from their bondage.
Well, everybody KNOWS I could write more….and will probably complain that I already wrote too much..so, I think I have pretty much presented my “reasoning”..so will resist the temptation (wink) to go on and stop here.
There you have it, the right wingers are delusional. Totally.
With all due respect JM White (and I do respect you), I cannot fathom a good reason to vote for Romney if indeed the future of this nation is your concern.
The world I want for my children is not in service to the Plutocracy, it is not in having someone else decide pregnancy options, it is not in waiting for crumbs from the trickle down, it is not in subsistence retirement, it is not in education being only for the rich, it is not in turning into a world bully again, it is not in further dividing this nation.
The Congress from hell has been bad enough as obstructionists and destructionists, you help give them the leader they want and I believe you will rue the day.
Doesn’t lypocrisy have something to do with werewolves?
#30 The only problem I have with Goode is he sounds way too much like Ward Burton!
Ha. Good one Dan. Not the only problem I have with Goode, but its as “goode” as any.
Comment by johnny — November 1, 2012 @ 8:22 pm
http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
J.M. White. The GOP we know today is not the party we grew up with. Yeah I voted for Bush. Once. Not the second time. When he started spouting off about putting SS in the stock market I was cured. Still couldn’t vote for Obama last time. I did pull the lever for Nader in protest in ’08.
Since that time what the GOP has become sickens me. I will never support this GOP and what it stands for today. What is surprising is that so many have not come to the same conclusion. We are living though sad times in the U.S. May the GOP throw off the yoke of the tea Party and Grover Norquist and grow a larger tent. Until then I will vote a straight Democratic ticket unless the independent has a real chance to win.
All politicians are schills.
Romney has only been successful in exploiting the little people to make his fortune and achievements. He just as quickly abandoned them and claims he did it all on his own. To be clear, I have no problem with making a fortune on the backs of those beneath you; I have a real problem with acting like those people don’t exist and had nothing to do with your success once you get there. If you call that “accomplishment”, you’re severely misguided.
Comment by J.M.White — November 1, 2012 @ 8:28 pm
Why don’t you condider all the charity and philanthropy that Romney has provided? Why don’t you condider all the companies and Olympics which Romney and his leadership saved over the years? These represent real jobs
and real accomplishment.
Like most liberals you simply do not care for anything but the lies you choose to believe. It is a choice and a poor one. Support of this administration is unwarranted on any major area or issue…be it the economy, foreign policy, jobs, civil rights, human rights, race relations
or justice.
I look forward to finally getting the election over and done with; but then the real work begins as we must put the country back together again
as the corruption, class warfare and racism of this administration has done much harm to this country.
The reality is you don’t know Romney yet feel free to make comments as above. You don’t know Obama either because you choose to put the blinders
on and slam shut your ears. Liberalism is a disease. . .I hope it does not prove fatal for America. . .we can surely see the damage it does.
Hey, Leon, is it “pure Alinsky” if I accuse my opponent of being an asshat?
Comment by Steve C — November 1, 2012 @ 8:41 pm
Steve,
For this the old adage applies; “it takes on to know one”.
I voted for Bush, BOTH times. About halfway through his second term, (when everything started unraveling under his watch and I saw what was going to happen to the housing market) I told people that Bush knew there was no chance in hell of a Republican getting the presidency in ’08. I predicted, then watched it unfold as he methodically and systematically did everything in his power to ensure that the next president would have almost insurmountable obstacles placed in front of him. Bush set the next guy up to fail and anyone with a minute ability of logical deduction could see it happening as it happened. In my eyes, that is virtually treason. Putting personal agendas and vendettas above the welfare of a nation you are sworn to protect and claim to love is unconscionable. I didn’t leave the GOP; it left me.
Comment by J.M.White — November 1, 2012 @ 7:54 pm
You write well but your conclusion are tripe. Bush did not create the scenerio for the housing market crash; he tried to correct it but was thwarted by Barney Frank and the Democratic controlled Congress. The easy
mortgage policies were started under the Clinton administration; bad policy allowed to fester and grow while corrupt Democrats milked it for big bucks (Franklin Rainies, Jaime Garlick, Barney Frank and others).
In September of 2008 there was a bank run; over 1/2 billion in liquidity
was pulled out resulting in the crisis which led to the first stimulus.
This was to be investigated but Obama took office. As this event almost
collapsed the economy plus obviously unduly influenced a presidential election the American people should know what happened. But; no answers have been forthcoming. Google bank run and September 2008.
Bush didn’t set anyone up to fail. The policies that failed are the polices of this administration. Bigger government, stimulus and prolific
spending are not remedies to a recession. Exactly what should not have been done was done. This is treason. Leaving good men to die when aid was available is also treason. Complete gall is required to lie to the American people for two weeks afterwards.
The GOP didn’t leave you; you got sick with Liberalism.
Leon: you castigate and denigrate an undecided voter. You try to say that Bush’s follies are the fault of Democratic-controlled legislatures but can’t and won’t give any fault to the GOP-controlled Congress that obstructs Obama. You say that I’m diseased. You speak to me like I’m beneath you… corrupt… a tainted vessel.
You are the poison that has turned my party fallow. You are the reason I can no longer follow. People like you have corrupted my party until I no longer recognize it. I fear that even if we pull out your poisoned fangs, the venom will never go away. I will not sleepwalk to the gallows in lockstep with you completely insane people and your ideals.
You’re helping me decide, dipstick, but you’re heavily pushing me the wrong way. Perhaps now would be a good time to stuff something in your piehole and leave the convincing to people far greater than you. Your “cause” needs every vote it can get.
I don’t think that God would ever condone the killing of His most precious creation.
Comment by Sharon N. — November 1, 2012 @ 8:56 pm
This is so astoundingly ignorant and misinformed that I don’t know where to start. How about let’s start from the beginning? Genesis 22:2 – God demands that Abraham kill his only son, Isaac. Condone it? He demands the killing of His “precious creations”, dozens of times, throughout the Old Testament. I knew you were daft, ma’am, but I don’t want to be forced to think that you’re stupid, too.
. . .Um, is dipstick a word we allow on this blog?
LMAO!
That was a different God, J.M. White. They change’m out every 1,000-2,000 years, ya know. Which means we’re overdue. L. Ron Hubbard, anybody? (This is worth a read)
Well, I don’t think you’d let me use the one I really wanted to, Dan. And I can’t resist a throwback to ol’ Roscoe P. Coltrane. Even he would shake his head at the TP invasion of the GOP.
I have to give Leon a little credit, with a little tangential credit to the “couple” of beers I’ve consumed. He actually got me riled for a minute or two. That almost never happens these days. I openly declare that I’m undecided and just because I’m not leaning Romney, he acts like I’m a leper, precisely illustrating why I have to CONVINCE myself to vote GOP, even when I’ve done so my entire life. I’ve backspaced over so many curse words in the last 30 minutes, it’s not even funny.
Absolutely clueless. Couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat.
. .Um, is dipstick a word we allow on this blog?
LMAO!
Comment by Dan Casey — November 2, 2012 @ 12:01 am
Not only did you allow it Dan, but it was also absolutely the perfect description by JM White for the person he was ranting about. Mr. White, I salute you sir for a job well done. And there are seceral other folks you could easily apply tag with that appellation. And they know who they are!
Comment by Leon (aka dipstick)
In September of 2008 there was a bank run; over 1/2 billion in liquidity
was pulled out resulting in the crisis which led to the first stimulus.
This was to be investigated but Obama took office. As this event almost
collapsed the economy plus obviously unduly influenced a presidential election the American people should know what happened. But; no answers have been forthcoming
Suggest you check your analysis and your figures Mr. Dipstick. If you think a mere 1/2 billion would have created a liquidity crisis and bank failures, you clearly don’t have clue about the enormity of the crisis.
Perhaps you should leave discussions on the economy and financial markets to somebody who has a brain.
Good job, JM. Sometimes one must look past their own self-interests and think of the common good. The debt never mattered until a Democrat gained the White House, and it will again be swept under the rug if Romney wins. Tax cuts for the rich and more war, if that’s your vision for America vote Republican.
Is there a word you DON’T allow on this blog?
Dave,
You are partially correct. . .number was much bigger = $550 Billion. . .
should have posted have a trillion.
That cleared up. . .what’s your point. The event occurred.
I’ve backspaced over so many curse words in the last 30 minutes, it’s not even funny.
Absolutely clueless. Couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat.
Comment by J.M.White — November 2, 2012 @ 12:18 am
J.M.,
I simply refuted your prior post. This one I agree with…you don’t have
a clue; have another beer or six.
49.
. .Um, is dipstick a word we allow on this blog?
LMAO!
Comment by Dan Casey — November 2, 2012 @ 12:01 am
Not only did you allow it Dan, but it was also absolutely the perfect description by JM White for the person he was ranting about. Mr. White, I salute you sir for a job well done. And there are seceral other folks you could easily apply tag with that appellation. And they know who they are!
Comment by dave — November 2, 2012 @ 1:39 am
Really glad you have been able to expand your vocabulary and, for a liberal, it’s a key word as it can be used to call someone else names when
you are otherwise unable to respond or refute points on issues. Great job
Dave!
44.Leon: you castigate and denigrate an undecided voter. You try to say that Bush’s follies are the fault of Democratic-controlled legislatures but can’t and won’t give any fault to the GOP-controlled Congress that obstructs Obama. You say that I’m diseased. You speak to me like I’m beneath you… corrupt… a tainted vessel.
Comment by J.M.White — November 1, 2012 @ 11:40 pm
J.M. You just don’t get it.
The Republican dominated congress is not obstructing Obama’s agenda; they
are saving us from it and have, in fact, passed a great deal of legislation such as a Budget (who’d thunk it with this administration).
The real bottleneck in Washington is the U.S. Senate…they obstruct and
defeat all of the efforts of Congress.
Bush’s policies were not bad…the economy under Bush did well despite 9/11 and two wars we had solid economic growth except for the last quarter of his administration. The Housing bubble did pop…but Bush’s
policies did not create the bubble; easy lending was started under Clinton years before. You, and others, buy into this lie because the present administration (whose economic policies are exactly contrary to
what should be done) blames Bush for everything and the media supports them in this.
Try reading a little Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams, both noted economists.
Sorry if you percieve disagreement with your points as speaking as if you
are beneath someone. Those are not my words nor intent. IMO, a large portion of the general public is brainwashed by the media bias toward liberalism. This will pass, their dwindling number of viewers will eventually put them out of business. . .watch the NY Times (a bastion of
liberalism) fade away.
Sharon N.
“I don’t think that God would ever condone the killing of His most precious creation.”
You believe this even though the torture and killing of God’s own son is the primary part of the Christian story? Clearly you god will kill most anyone or anything to further his/her aim goals.
@Leon: “Bush’s policies were not bad…the economy under Bush did well despite 9/11 and two wars we had solid economic growth except for the last quarter of his administration.”
And, other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
By the way, Leon, do you realize that Obama’s job record for his first term is much, much better than President Bush’s for his first term? Bush saw a net loss of nearly 1 million private-sector jobs his first term. Obama has seen a net gain of nearly 1 million jobs. Bush’s bacon was saved by a huge increase in public-sector jobs, while Obama’s economy has been pulled down by the loss of more than 600,000 public-sector jobs.
So, if Bush’s policies were all that great, Obama’s, judging by results, must be even better.
And the irony abounds. Leon telling lies while accusing other people of “falling for” them is too obvious for even nominally intelligent people not to notice. Sad. He has fallen and he cannot get up. It is just as well.
@Sharon N,
Sharon, no “gotchas here”.
I think the Republicans have been very effective at demonizing Democrats on abortion. IMHO, the issue is between a woman and her God and politicians need to stay out of this decision. You can not legislate “righteousness”.
The same thing with gay rights – please show me where Jesus said that gays should be discriminated against.
The Republucan Party has seemingly taken, again IMHO, an attitude that poor people are irresponsible and moochers…people without health insurance are irresponsible…seniors need to fend for themselves.
I believe “The Church” by in large, has ceded it’s mission for caring for the poor, the elderly, the sick to the government. Take a look at the budgets for most churches…what percent of the budget goes to feeding the poor, caring for elderly, helping the sick. I think you would be surprised.
I have to give Leon a little credit for not blaming 9/11 on Obama . . . so far, anyway.
Bush’s unemployment rate after 4 years = 5%
Obama’s unemployment rate after 4 years = 7.9%
In 2011, the average unemployment rate for Obama was 8.9%
Dan, are you under the mistaken impression that a higher rate is better?
Don’t you worry none, Henry. Dick Morris says Romney’s going to win in a landslide!
#63 Henry without a doubt that is lamest excuse for an argument I’ve ever heard. Let’s see, I’ll pick out of W’s 8 years the best numbers I can find and then compare it to Obama’s. Why don’t you use the numbers that W left Obama? Gee, why would you use the numbers in the middle of his term instead of the train wreck he left this country in? Your shallow argument is shallow indeed.
The Republican dominated Congress knew that most of their proposals would be defeated and they didn’t care. They drafted bills that were for show only. They knew there was no way they would be passed so they wouldn’t have to actually do anyting other than talk loudly.
Henry: Do you think the rate is all that matters?
Fact: In Bush’s first term, the private sector lost more than 1 million jobs.
Fact: In Obama’s first term, despite the ongoing financial collapse when he took office, the private sector has added nearly 1 million jobs.
Fact: When Bush came to office, the unemployment rate was 4.2 percent. By the end of his first term, it was 5.4 percent. By the time he left office it was 7.8 percent.
The facts are indisputable, Henry: Obama has a far better jobs record than Bush.
Oh, and we added 171,000 jobs in October, 184,000 in the private sector.
Henry, the unemployment rate in January 2001 when Bush came into office was 4.2%. 4 years later it was 5.3%, after spiking to 6.3% in June 2003.
When Obama took office from Bush in January 2009, the unemployment rate was 7.8%. It spiked to 10.0% in October 2009, and has generally been on a steady decline ever since, to the 7.9% it is now, at just shy of 4 years.
Bush 4-year net: -1.1%
Obama almost 4-year net: -0.1%
And both President Bush and President Obama saw the unemployment rate increase by 2.1% within their first terms…but under Obama, those losses were are essentially totally reversed, while they were never erased under Bush…the closest he would get to the 4.2% he started with was 4.4% in May 2007 (also happened Dec 2006, March 2007)…before he presided over the unemployment rate jumping wildly by 73% before he left office.
It’s also interesting, going back to Truman, every single Republican President has presided over a rise in unemployment, except for Reagan (27.5% to 5.4%)…and every single Democrat has presided over a drop in unemployment, except for Carter…who had the same rate both when he entered and left office (7.5%).
Sorry, Obama saw the rate rise by 2.2%, not 2.1%…and another typo on the Reagan stat, the starting unemploymebnt rate was 7.5%.
@44 – JM White, your post at 44 is truthful and quite sad. And what you are saying is starkly reflected on this blog daily, unfortunately. I respect that you are feeling very torn about the election. It is a very important election and a very important time in American history. But I think if you re-read your posts in this thread and look at the responses from the democrats and republicans here…you will see that you already know what direction you need to go this particular election. I think you can already see a real difference in tone between those on one side and those on the other. As for the various moderates…even they are swayed by the absolute takeover of the republican party by extremists. Again and again are the one issue voters (abortion obviously). Again and again are those that speak from pompus positions with very little or no facts to back those positions up.
You are not having a debate about this election, in my opinion. You clearly see that nothing will get accomplished if Romney is elected other than the beginning of another campaign (and I would add to that – two years of nothing but trying to overturn Affordable Care Act). You already know where you are leaning…it is just that you are heartbroken at feeling forced that direction and seeing what has become of the republican party as a result of the tea-party and religious right. Try not to be sad. If enough people like you vote Democratic at the national and state level (as Cold N P pointed out as well), then perhaps the real statesmen of the republican party will take the party back over and stand firm as true politicians who understand that compromise is necessary for the good of the country as a whole.
I do feel badly for you (and others like you) who are forced to vote against what your party is becoming rather than for a set of principles you support. It is truly a shame.
I have looked at most every poll available and as much as I would love to say for sure Governor Romney is going to win, I cannot. If Dan or anyone else is going to say for sure the president is going to be reelected, I would question where the evidence is coming from. I setup a spread sheet on excel that produces every possible, within reason, combination of States for Governor Romney to win. There simply is not enough evidence to predict who will win. I listen to Dick Morris say Governor Romney is going to win in a landslide. If he does I will be very surprised as the polling data does not suggest that. Of course my assumptions are based on the algorithms used in the polling software will accurately predict voter turnout. The October 27, 1980 Gallup Poll had President Carter up 53% to 47%, so I could be wrong. The jobs numbers don’t look good for the President. The storm probably works against the President as a lot of his base will not vote in the North East, but it probably won’t matter as he will carry New York and New Jersey anyway. Needless to say it is going to be very interesting. Some people have asked me why I support Governor Romney and it is very simple he is closer to personifying my vision for America then President Obama, I think Governor Romney will be better for business, and Governor Romney is a much more traditional leader than President Obama.
Bill Perdue, no one can show you where Christ supported a political cause, because he did not enter into that realm per se. He was however, very clear on what our relationship was to be with government (rulers/masters). IMHO, it is ludicrous to think that Jesus spent so much time teaching us to be generous, kind, loving and helpful only to think that the government should/could not be.
I believe the Bible is clear on the relationship between people and government. We must obey governmental authorities, and the government is to treat us justly and fairly. If God created us and everything, he also created the “rulers”.
“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2).
“Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-14).
I believe Jesus also made it clear what was expected of “good rulers”. That was to serve their people. “Jesus called them together and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave – just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many’” (Matthew 20:25-28).
Even when it is hard and you don’t understand everything, you still must obey. That is where it gets dicey. “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God” (1 Peter 2:18-19).
Jesus is most clear on taxes too: “‘Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?’ ‘Caesar’s,’ they replied. Then he said to them, ‘Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s’” (Matthew 22:20-21). “This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing” (Romans 13:6).
The book of Daniel is most instructive of how we are to deal with government.
Jesus is not about political parties, but you cannot convince me that Jesus who was all about caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, widowed, orphaned, needy and lost would not “side” with a government with that same philosophy. Jesus never said, “I got mine, you are on your own”. Jesus never said, “horde your wealth and watch people suffer”. Jesus never said, my role “is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.” He just never did.
Maybe we should leave Jesus out of this?
I can never tell if Henry is just in denial of the economic crash, or if he is just frustrated that he cannot blame it on Obama.
Not only does Dick Morris predict Romney in a landslide, he says the GOP is going to take the Senate, 53-47. The GOP will have the White House and both chambers of Congress. They’ll be able to do whatever they want.
After all, this is a top-shelf analyst — perhaps the greatest one ever in the history of electoral politics.
I don’t know why you RWers seem so gloomy. Dick says it’s all over. They should simply inaugurate Romney tomorrow.
Dick Morris = Baghdad Bob
I don’t see any evidence to support Mr. Morris’s opinions. In my mind once a traitor always a traitor, I have more respect for Sandi and Gdad then I do for Mr. Morris as a least they stand by what they believe.
The president doesn’t need all his voters to vote in the North East. He just needs to win the states and with them the electoral votes. If he’s up 14% and only wins the state by 4%, the outcome is the same.
The choice this election is very simple. If you want a president that cares about nothing or no one else but the .001% of the ueber-wealthy white demographic to which he himself belongs, then vote Romney. Or don’t vote for Obama, because taking some stance on “principle” and voting for Goode instead of Obama is essentially a Romney vote. Getting your feelings hurt because Obama didn’t punch your personal issue card and witholding your vote – and thereby allowing Romney a shot at the White Hosue – is doing nothing but hand your country over to the same bunch of looters who spent 8 years destroying it. There is no option other than Obama – the alternative is unthinkable, and sitting on your hands and allowing it to happen unacceptable.
Romney’s “vision” for this country is to turn it into a Mexico, where 5 people have all the money and everyone else lives like a serf. If you think he has any interest in “creating opportunity” that loosens the death grip and his his .001% buddies have on 99% of the wealth in this country, you’re kidding yourself.
Leon: You didn’t refute anything. You started off accusing me of “lypocrisy”, and couldn’t even carry that through. Not one lie or hypocrisy was pointed out. You spouted off the same old tired, discredited TP talking points, defended Bush (and I’m the one that’s diseased) and disparaged the First Lady. You even brought up the Obama eligibility idiocy. You haven’t sourced a single thing you’ve claimed, either. In no way can what you’ve written here be considered a refutation of anything. It’s the same old same old from you, ad nauseum.
Leon, it is you who can’t see the full picture. It’s you who can’t see the forest for the trees. You’re so blinded by partisan hatred that you’re running in circles and you’re obviously not bright enough to realize that you’re chained to the ground.
You came right off the bat calling me a liar and a hypocrite. The hostility drips off of your every word. You don’t want to debate; you want to complain and you want to whine and you want to label everyone. Don’t speak to me of class warfare (divisiveness takes many forms) and then label everyone who doesn’t agree with you a diseased liberal. You want to be divisive at a time when we should all be pulling together. The world is in color, not black and white, you dinosaur. The either/or world is extinct and has been gone for a long time.
You double down on your idiocy of Bush not being responsible for anything while Obama is responsible for everything. Nothing you can possibly say will make that logical in any world.
You’re the perfect brainwashed conscript for the TP army, Leon; so blinded by raw hatred and ignorant indignation that you’ll overlook all facts and evidence in order to toe the party line. You’ve been duped, my friend. Your puppetmasters are filthy rich men who don’t give a damn about you, your family or your ideas. The original Tea Party was hijacked by them as soon as they saw the movement picking up speed. Your hopes and dreams, your grassroots revival… they were stolen, manipulated and transformed into a near-dictatorial monster.
I’m sorry that they turned you into a tool, Leon. I really am. When they’re through with you, when your usefulness has expired, they’ll abandon you, as well. All you’ll be left with is your threadbare sock full of crap to swing at passersby.
Kristen,
If I can be frank. Yesterday at the Romney event I saw plenty of people I know and the kind of people I like. I did not see any tattoos’, male earrings, pink hair or other generally weird people. If you will notice the people that make up the Democratic Party, in my opinion are nontraditional weirdoes, for the most part. I don’t like diversity and that has nothing to do with color or national origin. I want my children around people like us. College educated professionals, church going people etc etc etc. In saying that I have friends that are democrats and are as traditional as I am, they simply have a different vision for this country then I do, and they are good people. The facts do speak for themselves. What has President Obama accomplished? Unemployment is up, National debt is up, GDP is down, and folks on food stamps are up, Government growth is up. In short he has failed miserably, and I know because I live and work in a horrible economy. Mr. Romney is a proven leader who actually has accomplished something in his lif
@80 Michael Howdyshell, if I can be frank: Do you realize you sound like a more educated but fairly standard southern redneck when you make sweeping generalizations like you do in your post? I’m not even kidding. If you are a college educated professional, it would seem to me you would open your eyes just a bit wider. If you were a “church going” person, I feel that you would be a bit less judgmental. I could just as easily try to pigeonhole the folks that I see supporting republicans…but that is all just very shallow, narrow-minded and untruthful.
Michael,
You must live in an alternate universe. Here are the facts for THIS universe: Unemployment is down. Government growth is down (more than 600,000 fewer public sector employees since Obama took office). GDP is up. Debt is up, but that would be true regardless of who was president because most of the deficit is a result of two unpaid-for wars, the Bush tax cuts and the lingering impact of the recession on revenues across the board.
By the way, nearly everything Romney accomplished, he accomplished with the help of a government bail-out. He got millions of dollars in federal money for the Olympics. He got a huge federal bailout for Bain & Co. Government money helped many of his investments succeed.
Be as frank as you care to, Michael. The fact is, the country doesn’t consist solely of the people you know and like. You’re welcome to keep your children around people like you, but that fact is that people like you have no more say in how the country is run than anyone else does. Half the country is democrat, and if you want to make the case that half the country is made up of “non-traditional weirdos”, go right ahead, but keep in mind that their votes carry exactly the same weight as yours do.
Or, put more concisely, who you like is irrelevant.
Sandy, I agree.
As the saying goes, “don’t mix politics and religion” (I’ll add…at least in polite company…lol).
Leon: You didn’t refute anything
Comment by J.M.White — November 2, 2012 @ 10:43 am
Your rant says. . .yes you did ! ! ! LOL, LOL, LOL
Ahhh, where to start….
Let’s start with JM White’s comment about Jacob being commanded to kill his only son, Isaac. A simple question….DID Jacob kill his only son, Isaac? Nope!! God was testing Jacob’s commitment to Him. God knew when He commanded it that Jacob would not have to actually DO it, Jacob only needed to show that he was willing to do whatever God asked of him.
Now that this “daft” lady has destroyed that argument. Please show me in your infinite wisdom all the other times in the Bible that God has codoned the killing of innocents, without giving them a choice in the matter.
Mike Scott:
“You believe this even though the torture and killing of God’s own son is the primary part of the Christian story? Clearly you god will kill most anyone or anything to further his/her aim goals.”
Wow….I have to admit that this is so ignorant of the beliefs of Christianity that I’m honestly not sure how to respond..but I’ll try, as breifly as possible.
Yes, the torture and killing of His own Son. The ONLY perfect, sinless human that has ever lived, God sacrificed his Son for US..so that we would not have to make sacrifices anymore, and so that rather than US paying the ultimate price for our sins, which we fully deserve, Jesus paid that price for us….all we have to so is ackbowledge and accept that and spend the rest of our lives showing that we appreciate it. Christ was the transition between Old Testament Christianity and New Testament Christianity. The Ressurection of Christ was the embodyment of our promise of everlasting life.
You say that God is willing to kill anyone or anything to further his/her goals? You are definitely ignorant of what God’s goals ARE, you are ignorant of what “Death” is…..and you are basically saying that you would never kill anyone who threatened the life or well being of one of your children…..and you expect us to believe that you are better, more trustworthy and benevolent than God.
But, let’s get back to the subject at hand..which is abortion, and you all saying that you are a Christian but think that abortion is between
a woman and her God…do you honestly expect me to believe that if a Christian finds herself with an unplanned or inconvenient pregnancy….that she would pray and ask “her” God what to do about it..that her God’s answer would be “Oh, I guess I goofed, just run on down to planned parenthood and kill it then.” MY God’s answer would be…”I know it’s scary, but trust Me, my beloved Child, I have a reason for this and I will be there to see you through it.”
If someone calls themselves a Christian, but doesn’t believe in seeking God’s will and purpose for their lives, and doesn’t have any trust in God having the power to make good from a bad situation…why are you even calling yourself a “Christian”?
Well, I’ve over run the time I have right now. I’ll be back later..to respond to YOUR response, which I thank you for, Bill Perdue.
Michael H, mentally resides in another century.
I’d like to be frank as well Michael. Maybe what you saw made you comfortable, but the rigidity, prejudice and IMO ignorance of your saying “tattoos’, male earrings, pink hair or other generally weird people” as if appearance is some sort of acceptable measurement for anything is truly sad. Plenty of great people have tattoos, male earrings, oddly colored or styled hair and choose to dress to stand out (or blend in). You are missing out IMO.
I have been married for 32 years, raised two healthy, productive citizens, attend Church and Sunday School regularly and I defy you to say that I am some anomaly in the Democratic Party. Your opinion is wrong.
The mountains in Idaho are full of traditional weirdos, so are most southern and mid-west states. They are all for God and country but always with that asterisk. Always with that caveat that it has to be “their” God and “their” country.
Guess what, the Founding Fathers NEVER envisioned a nation of exclusion. Bigotry? Sure, they had it themselves. So in that I suppose you are indeed as traditional as they come.
I like diversity, it makes me proud to be an American. I like people who stand up for what they believe in, but appreciate those who differ. I like people who are not afraid to be that “square peg” and not a sheep. I like people that see the beauty in equality, inclusiveness, diversity and united purpose.
The facts do speak for themselves. They just do not say what you think they do.
“Five years after the onset of the 2007 subprime financial crisis, U.S. gross domestic product per capita remains below its initial level. Unemployment, though down from its peak, is still about 8 percent. Rather than the V- shaped recovery that is typical of most postwar recessions, this one has exhibited slow and halting growth.
This disappointing performance shouldn’t be surprising. We have presented evidence that recessions associated with systemic banking crises tend to be deep and protracted and that this pattern is evident across both history and countries. Subsequent academic research using different approaches and samples has found similar results.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-15/sorry-u-s-recoveries-really-aren-t-different.html
And on a related note:
“Clinton said Rogoff is a moderate Republican. And then he related a conversation he had with Rogoff after reading his book.
“I called him on the phone and I said, ‘I read this very carefully. I just have a question. Do you believe that there’s any way America could have fully recovered from that crash in four years?’” Clinton said. “He said, ‘Lord no.’”
“He said, ‘No serious person believes that.’ He said, ‘The average country takes 10 years,’” Clinton said.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/bill-clinton-economist-kenneth-rogoff-obama_n_2061734.html
The people blaming Obama for not fixing what he did not break and not being able to do what could not be done, should have at least a little shame. But then again, they support Romney while calling Obama a liar too. Go figure.
Sure thing, Sharon N. Remember that your standard was condoning the killing of innocents. Semantics aside, here are some more examples. Feel free to parse them however you wish.
1 Kings 2:22-23 – Elisha, with the help of God, turns two bears loose and kills 42 children for making fun of his baldness. A harsh punishment, is it not?
1 Samuel 15 – An entire chapter devoted to the massacre of the Amalekites, including God getting pissed that Saul apparently forgot to slaughter everything.
2 Samuel 8:2,3 – David, ever the humanitarian forces the Moabites to lay in three rows. He executes two rows and leaves the third as servants. In verse 3, “And the Lord preserved David whithersoever he went.” It’s awfully hard to argue that thousands of people being killed and God rewarding David for it as NOT condoning murder.
2 Kings 1:10-14 – God didn’t leave this one in the hands of Elijah; he killed them all himself.
And what of the Canaanites, Sharon N? The wholesale slaughter of everyone except virginal females was not only encouraged by God, it was ordered by him. Thousands upon thousands of deaths in the name of God – not only does He condone it, He gives the executioners his favor and grace for it!
Your serve, ma’am. I can do this all day.
Miriam
You are correct I make some pretty outlandish ridiculous comments, and I do it for a reason. I believe the left wing politically correct crowds are a bunch of fake hypocrites. The left is supposed to be the group of acceptance. The left is supposedly the group that will accept anyone and anything. It has been my experience they do if and only if your “differences” are part of their PC beliefs. You are right Debbie I was probably born 100 years too late, but I’m not quite as bad as I seem.
MichaelH, you vaguely remind me a family friend who lived up the street when I was growing up. They had 4 kidsand the youngest was in my grade. This guy went to our church, and he was a virulent bigot. Hated blacks, Jews, Catholics, Hispanics. He was a cold warrior who on more than one occasion stood up in church during a sermon preaching peace and screamed at the minister “If you think Russia is so great, MOVE there” before stomping out. Otherwise, he was a good guy.
Anyway, #1 son married a Jewish girl. Daughter married a divorced Catholic and couldn’t have children, so they adopted Eastern European orphans. #2 son became a NYC cop and married a puerto rican woman he met when she was in night court for petty theft charges. The one who’s my age? He does special effects for companies like Pixar and lives in Hollywood…with a beautiful Japanese American to whom hes not yet married. He makes millions, literally. (he was always a home-movie making geek that we sort of made fun of. Lesson learned)
The point is…you have 3 young sons who are far from done forming. They may end up like you. They may come home from school with a pink Mohawk and nose ring. You don’t know yet, and watch what you say because you well end up eating those words sometime
@91 Well Michael Howdyshel, I believe there is a diffence between the “far left” and the democrats just as I sincerely hope there is a difference between the “far right” and the republicans (though that gap seems smaller the last few years). If all we ever do is talk in extremities and throw “outlandish ridiculous comments” around then we are seriously belittling each other’s intelligence and avoiding truly addressing any issues in the spirit of compromise. In other words, why have you opted to be a part of the problem in that manner?
Even in your explanation about why you go so overboard in your statements, you continue to go overboard some more. I honestly think you are not being honest with yourself about how far right of the old guard, real statesmen republicans, you actually stand.
To clarify, MkeH, I don’t think you’re a virulent bigot.
Kristen, I’m a lot of things but a bigot is not one of them. And I try very hard to present both side’s pros and cons to my sons. I want them to look at all sides of an issue and make up their own minds. I want them to be open minded and progressive. I also want them to be grounded in traditional conservative values. For what its worth they have never heard me say anything contradictory about the President. I always speak of President Obama with respect and tell my boys we simply disagree with his politics. If one and or all of my boys came home one day Gay with orange hair, and tattoos’ I’m sure I would still love them. Based on the way they are now I don’t think any of the above is likely. They love their Blue Blazers, short haircuts and kakis too much. You may be surprised but they actually have friends with liberal parents and the parents let their kids spend the night at our house. Imagine.
From Sandi,
“Even when it is hard and you don’t understand everything, you still must obey. That is where it gets dicey. “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God” (1 Peter 2:18-19).”
Without arguing the point that Sandi made, let me ask you all to just THINK about the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth we would hear from the lefties if a Conservative ever quoted THAT Scripture. I don’t think we would be able to sleep over the din of the ever lasting outcry.
To take back a statement that I made to Mike Scott earlier…in searching my heart…I don’t feel that I myself would necessarily kill someone to save the life of my child…it would depend on the circumstances. If I knew that when my child died, they would go to Heaven, and their killer would go to hell, not being given a chance to repent…I would NOT kill them, if I could stop myself long enough to think about it. I KNOW that I would not kill someone to stop them from killing ME.
Sandi..
A very good gathering of Biblical verses of the role of Government, and although I am absolutely positive that you do not “see” this, nor would you ever admit it if you did… you further illustrated the points I was trying to make.
The Main point being that the “Government” is not to take the role of “God” in our lives.
I guess only in the hardcore leftists mind does not agreeing with Obama, or saying that we are going to vote him out constitute “rebelling” against him, and thereby rebelling against God. (eye-roll)
Michael, all those clean-cut untattooed people at GOP rallies are Democratic plants. They send them there to cheer lustily. Then the Dems only send bikers, minorities and the goth crowd to Democrocratic rallies.
The point is so that some Republicans will talk about the difference, and write it on blogs, and anger some others with that air of superiority.
And you just fell for it.
Bill Perdue,
In a later post, you said that we shouldn’t mix politics and religion…so, I will just quickly respond to the points you made above….and gently remind you that you ASKED for it. (SMILE)
1) I’m sorry if you feel like the “right” has “demonized” you on the abortion issue. I’m not sure what else you expected though….when you are trying to convince a Christian, who believes in the sanctity of life, no matter how that life is conceived, and who is appalled at the flippant attitude anyone can speak of ending that life for selfish reasons..then try to get that Christian to agree that unjust killing is righteous and good, well, that’s just not going to happen. The left can rant and rave, and accuse, and ridicule all they want….it’s just not going to change our minds..and the uglier you get towards US, the more we are going to defend our position. If that makes you feel “demonized”, I’m sorry, but that is just not MY problem or concern. If you took an HONEST look around the Country, and around this blog, you will see that it is the LEFT that is doing its best to “demonize” the RIGHT on the abortion issue.
As to gays…..I see that no one else on this blog is going to defend me..(did I really expect any different?)….but I have spoken out on this blog, more than once….that I DON’T think gays should be denied their Constitutional rights. I believe that same sex marriage should be allowed, legal, and recognized in every State in the US. As to them having “special rights”, or being a “protected minority”….no.
As to your comment on the Churches, I’m really not going to argue with you there because I fear and feel that in many cases, you are absolutely correct. But, I have never attended a Church because it was BIG..or because it was beautiful..or because it was “cool”. When I have attended Church, they have been small churches, where one Pastor told us that he sometimes actually had to ” pray” for his next meal (or resign himself to fasting) or had to pray for his next tank of gas to visit the sick or those in need…which God always provided, sometimes in unexplained ways..like a Church member, out of the blue, would bring him $50 because they said that God put it on their hearts to do so.
Another thing, if you feel, as I do, that the Church is supposed to help take care of the needy, why is the left all for making it more difficult for them to do so?..by forcing them to conform to the Government’s agenda in order to continue providing the services they are expected to and have been providing.
#91: “I believe the left wing politically correct crowds are a bunch of fake hypocrites”
comment by Mr. Howdyshell
It’s interesting that Mr. Howdyshell thinks those he identifies as “the left wing politically correct crowds” aren’t hypocrites. Perhaps he also agrees that there are some AUTHENTIC hypocrites to be found among those calling themselves “conservative”. I certainly have seen numerous “conservative” hypocrites who were completely genuine, and not the “fake hypocrites” that Mr. Howdyshell mentioned.
#98 Sharon N,
If you would consider bestowing the same “special rights” that you do on the unborn to grammatical rules, you just might be able to win some converts. As it is, nothing shouts ignorant hillbilly like waterboarding punctuation that most people mastered in elementary school.
For the love of God, Baby Jesus and the English language, please consider that intro to English composition class at VWCC that I linked you to last year if you insist on continuing to post here. Let me know if you need me to resend the link.
hey Sharon N,
I’ve read your post at #98, and agree with you all the way. Your points are well presented, succinct, straight-forward, absent of animosity, sarcasm, and hyperboly.
The libs just won’t know what to do with your post. Well done.
JM White..feel free to play your little game by yourself. I started my conversation with someone who I thought was honestly asking…I never asked for you to interject your juvenile comments, when you have a true desire to learn something about the subject at hand, get back to me….until then..I really don’t have the time nor the desire to start with “C..A..T spells cat”
Leon,
An honorable effort, but you are wasting your time. On THIS blog, I’m sure you have noticed that these left-wing extremists have ALWAYS somehow managed to twist and turn their way around to endlessly rehashing the same old things, ONLY subjects they THINK they can defend. Even if you have undeniable evidence of the lies that Obama has told, or the flip-flopping he has done,..they will never have an answer for that..it will be crickets on THAT subject….and then they will fall back on but…
“BOOOOOOOSH”, “you Bigot”, “you racist”, you idiot, etc….just like their “Master”…..if you point out their own lies and hypocracy..or the games they play..they don’t see it..they double down on it. If you think for a minute that any of them have any interest in discussing the different points of view on an issue….you are sadly mistaken.
If someone comes in here, pretending to be undecided…when they prove that all they are actually trying to do is set you up for personal attacks and ridicule..don’t fall for it. If JM wants to be stupid and vote for the Incompetent in Chief..let him, we don’t need to beg for his vote…if he really IS undecided and comes in here with the kind of hate that he shows, and then whines if you don’t pat his head and tell him how open minded he is…tell him that you don’t need to hold his hand and guide him to the polls… to do some research and make up his own mind. Sheesh..do we have to do EVERYTHING for these children?..can’t they even THINK for themselves.
Leon and Michael Howdyshell…
I certainly HOPE that you guys read/watch/ and/or listen to something other than this blog or Fox news.
If you have, you have plenty of reason to keep your chins up. Rest assured that the majority of Americans see through this crap…and they want no part of it. Many more than Dick Morris have predicted a Romney landslide….and by much larger margins. If you can’t bring yourself to believe that the polls are as skewed as they are…think on THIS…NO incumbent has EVER won reelection with numbers this bad, or who has never been able to break a 50% approval rating….EVER!! Obama has alienenated all but his die hard or low information supporters…Think about your OWN friends and family…..are there ANY of them who voted for McCain last time who are now so impressed with Obama that they are voting for him this time? I don’t know of anybody. On the other hand, I can think of a few who voted for Obama who won’t do it AGAIN!! There are 3 life long Democrats in my immediate family who, in States where they need to, have gone down and “proudly” changed their party affiliation from Democrat to Republican..others who don’t need to change anything, have said they will never vote Democratic again. There have been reports that this is happening all over the Country…. do you know of anyone, other than the phoneys on this blog, who have done the opposite? I don’t.
The Tea Party is going to make some changes in the “establishment” Republicans all right, but it is a change that the American people WANT…and Romney said that he would work WITH us. It is these left wing extremists, and the OWS crowd etc who have utterly destroyed the Democratic Party…deep down in their hearts, they KNOW this, and as you can see, it makes them so mad they can just SPIT!! LOL.
Tuesday night is going to be so much fun. I am sure that MSNBC will probably have a higher viewership in that one night than they have had since they have been on the air.
Good night.
“hey Sharon N,
I’ve read your post at #98, and agree with you all the way. Your points are well presented, succinct, straight-forward, absent of animosity, sarcasm, and hyperboly.”
Sharon’s posts are a lot of things. Succinct ain’t one of’em.
You are right Debbie I was probably born 100 years too late, but I’m not quite as bad as I seem.
Comment by Michael A. Howdyshell — November 2, 2012 @ 2:06 pm
Good to know, Michael.
@102 – Here is a typical gamer response for ya: tl;dr
Sharon N,
I believe you missed my point.
My point is that neither party can/should take “the high road” on religion and Christianity.
Is the Tea Party the new idol of the religious right? It sure seems that way. I’ve received email after email, Facebook posts after Facebook posts from Christian conservatives who just “love” the Tea Party. Most imply, or out right say, that if you are a “real” Christian, you will drink the tea and defeat the evil Obama.
Reminds me of one of my favorite Jethro Tull songs –
Hymn 43
Oh father high in heaven — smile down upon your son
whose busy with his money games — his women and his gun.
Oh Jesus save me!
If Jesus saves — well, He’d better save Himself
from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.
Oh Jesus save me!
I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon
His cross was rather bloody –
He could hardly roll His stone.
Oh Jesus save me!
When I think of Sharon N having “a point”, why do I visualize a needle in a haystack?
.
Sharon, your #96 proves your comprehension skills have not improved. Thanks for the reminder.
Michael H, you may “believe the left wing politically correct crowds are a bunch of fake hypocrites” as you like. Whatever the hell that even means.
You are wrong in thinking “The left is supposed to be the group of acceptance” per se. We are the party that accepts religious differences, cultural differences, racial differences and sexuality differences. We are not, and have never been “the group that will accept anyone and anything”. And we never will be.
Do you even know what “PC” means? It is simply not using offensive language, epithets or disparaging phrases against people you are speaking with or about. It is not a political belief. Intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, invasive reproduction laws, inequality and unfair policies will never be accepted, or tolerated among liberals. We will never accept anyone and anything that embraces those evils.
Bill Perdue, I was just listening to that song earlier today! I also really like the Genesis rewrite on the back cover.
Following your lead, from the same album:
“He’s not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.”
Or on the campaign trail….
Spent most of the weekend off the computer or on the computer but not on this blog…sorry for the delay.
Thanks Frank,
I try not to be drawn into the hate..it’s hard sometimes when no mattter what a “conservative”, in some cases, or a Christian, in others, types is going to be met with insults etc from the leftists, in some cases, or the atheists, in others.
Anyway, I DO have to agree with Dan C. on THIS post.
“Sharon’s posts are a lot of things. Succinct ain’t one of’em.”
Comment by Dan Casey — November 2, 2012 @ 11:52 pm
Bill Perdue:
Okay, I am done. If you prefer to get your religious philosophy from Jethrol Tull, rather than the Bible..I guess there is nothing further I can say.