$257 to fix a furnace that’s still under warranty?
Teknorat | Wikimedia Commons
Your daily Letter to the Columnist — Dec. 4, 2012
Hi, still loving your articles, especially the one about the Taubman Museum.
Here is my problem, I recently had to call my heat/AC company due to no heat — they came out, said I needed a new circuit board but that it was under warranty — great I am thinking. I even asked, “so all I would be paying for is the labor?”
Yes, the nice young man says. He returns 2 days later with the part, took 15 minutes to snap it in and gives me a bill for $257!
“Wow,” I say. “That is $1,000 an hour, I thought this was under warranty?” We call the office and they give me a song and dance about “well it is just getting the part, we have a lot of paperwork, freight involved etc.”
Dan, how can this be? Even with freight and a basic $89 service charge, it would have been less than what I paid. I did some checking with other Trane dealers and they said, $79-99.
As a single working woman, I feel taken advantage of but maybe they are doing this to all their customers.
Anyway, I thought maybe a bit of prying from your ole eagle eye might give them pause for re evaluating their pricing.
I have even emailed Trane with the details but have received no answer as of yet.
Suzanne Osborne
ROANOKE
December 4, 2012 - 1:30 PM
Dan “the hitman” Casey.
We had an HVAC company clean our furnace the other week and when the guy was finished, the furnace wouldn’t start. The owner came over and one look at the furnace, he said it was old and he could replace it for $4,000. My wife, who was handling this (and is not someone to mess with) told him it was working before his guy cleaned it. So, she called another HVAC company who came right over. That guy took one look at it, turned on the emergency cutoff and it worked fine.
I wonder how many folks the first guy has bilked with his “you need a new furnace” pitch?
I bet I can name the company involved. I was told I needed a new heat pump system that would cost nearly $7,000! Got a second opinion from another dealer and was told nothing wrong!
The majority of service companies do not charge by the hour. Just because it took 15 minutes does not mean the company charges $1,000 per hour. They should have gave you an up front price. They probably charged you for three hours. One hour when they came the first time, one hour when they ordered the part, and the final hour when they returned to install the new part.
Tosh, she said she checked with other Trane dealers and emailed Trane, so I’m guessing that’s the company she’s dealing with. I wonder what the charge would have been if it wasn’t still under warranty.
Suzanne Osbourne in the original post:
“He returns 2 days later with the part, took 15 minutes to snap it in and gives me a bill for $257!
“Wow,” I say. “That is $1,000 an hour”
No, Suzanne, it isn’t. There is a lot of knowledge required to diagnose HVAC systems and the expensive tools that it takes to do so. There was also overhead for the business too including the efforts spent to get the part in. This is something a lot of folks don’t understand about real estate. There is WAY more to listing or selling a home than the relatively small amount of time that clients visually see us working. I put in at least 10-1 time on every sale, seamlessly, while the client goes on with his/her life.
Would you have felt better if he had messed around and wasted a couple of hours needlessly?
I won’t defend this particular company, but I’ll tell you a story. An exasperated hotel owner called a heating contractor on a frigid winter day. “My boiler isn’t working, can you help? he cried. The company sent out a technician who looked at the boiler with it’s complicated array of valves and switches. Taking a small hammer, the tech walked over and lightly tapped one of the valves. The boiler fired immediately. The technician handed the hotel owner a bill reading “Service call-$400.” “My God, man, what did you do?’ the hotel owner screamed. “You were only here 5 minutes!” The tech calmly took back the bill and did some more writing, then handed it back to the owner. The bill now read, “Tap valve-$25, Knowing which valve to tap-$375.” There’s more to contracting than meets the eye.
What is the point of having something be under warrantee if you still have to pay $250 to fix it?
If they’re charging for an hour of work to order one part, they’re doing it wrong.
Warranty.
Sorry I missed out on the Bob Costas/gun control thing in one of
Mr. Casey’s earlier columns.
I would like to know if when Mr. Costas is being driven around
by his Chauffeur if the driver or other assistants are armed.
It would also be interesting to know if Mr. Costas lives in
a gated community with an armed guard at the entrance.
One final thought: Does Mr. Costas own firearms?
Kinda reminds me when (then Mayor of Richmond) Roy West who championed
stricter gun laws by day, shoots himself in the leg while
cleaning his handgun at night. Ole Roy still walks with a
limp.
Oh about the above letter: Some people have figured out how to
rob people without even using a gun.
Rob Thommins:
“I would like to know if when Mr. Costas is being driven around
by his Chauffeur if the driver or other assistants are armed.”
Mayor Bloomberg, one of the most gun rights hating politicians who ever lived has an armed security detail.
Hey Rob, that column about Costas is not dead yet. Please come comment…
http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2012/12/sunday-night-footballs-bob-costas-takes-on-the-gun-culture/
Kristen:
“What is the point of having something be under warrantee if you still have to pay $250 to fix it?”
Do you have a $250 deductable on your car insurance?
“If they’re charging for an hour of work to order one part, they’re doing it wrong.”
Art Hill:
“Tap valve-$25, Knowing which valve to tap-$375″
Priceless.
Depends what has to be ordered. In this case, probably so, but there is a lot of overhead in running a business. The tech came out and fixed the problem quickly! He did his job, did it very well, and got her heat back quicker than expected.
Your problem is that his skill and experience led him to do it so efficiently, that you are jealous of his margin on this particular job. Had he stuggled and fumbled before fixing it, you would feel better about paying $257.
I once had a client complain about my commission because I sold the property for list price in a week. I had to talk them into the higher list price that netted them far more than they would have gotten on their own. I also kept them from making a serious mistake on how to divide the land. I also helped wrangle some creative financing and even held a small note for the buyer myself. They got way more money in far less time, but were still unhappy that I profited hansomely. What an attitude to have.
“Do you have a $250 deductable on your car insurance?”
My deductable is my deductable is my deductable. So if I happent to get a repair guy looking to screw me over who’s going to charge 3 times what another one would, my deductable doesn’t change. First of all. Second of all, insurance is nothing remotely like a warranty. A warranty is an agreement with the manufacturer. If something on my car is under warranty and breaks, I don’t bill my insurance and pay no deductable. That’s why it’s a “warranty”.
Someone can rip me off for any amount of money…that’s no reflection on his “skill” or anything like it, and I’m no more “jealous” than I would be of the profit margin of a pickpocket. How stupid.
For reference, I had a similar part fail on my 15 year old furnace. My total repair expense was about what Suzanne paid for what was supposedly a warranty call. I believe she was gouged.
Kristen, They are both guarantees of different kinds and I realize the difference, but knew the insurance reference would get a riled-up response. You’d pay that to get your car fixed, anyway.
I hope your mechanic is reading this and knows that when your Jeep rolls in, to build a lot of labor and smoke breaks into the job even if his skills and specialty tools turn a 14 hour flat-rate job into a morning’s work.
Being good and efficient is not ripping people off.
Any warranty work I’ve had done on my vehicles has been covered in full (including labor). Maybe that isn’t true for HVAC?
In my story, the first guy for sure tried to rip us off. His guy didn’t flip the emergency cutoff switch back on and he tried to sell us a new $4,000 furnace.
Bill Perdue,
Another Chuck would tell you it’s all Obama’s fault that guy tried to rip you off!
Figuring in all the overhead, the average industry-wide cost of a trained technician and truck for one hour is $125, meaning your HVAC company barely broke even. If you can find a licensed contractor who wants to operate below their costs that’s fine, but they won’t be in business for long. OTOH, Craigslist is full of jacklegs, if price is your only consideration feel free. But when the thing explodes in the middle of the night those few extra dollars won’t matter. You get what you pay for, Ms. Osborne.
JohnW, regardless of what you think you know,your comparison was inapt and doesn’t demonstrate much of a concept of what a “warranty” represents.
I use the same reliable honest people for all my cars. Whatever youre hoping for, too bad, it’s not happening. You must be quite defensive of what you imagine peoples’ perception is of how much you net for an hour’s work. The only thing that makes this bill noteworthy is the fact that her product was UNDER WARRANTY.
Bill Perdue:
“I wonder how many folks the first guy has bilked with his “you need a new furnace” pitch?”
Their miss was indefensable, but I’d guess it was more likely that they didn’t know to check that rather than simply trying to sell you more. That’s what “spray and pray” mechanics do…. they spray it with new parts and pray the problem was with one of them. Those are the shops to stay away from.
Art
My hvac guy had the part with him when he arrived. No reason not to, and it enabled him to fix it with one trip. Part was about $175 and service call was $75. Small firm to be sure but they do great work. I always feel like I get good value.
She got screwed despite what John and Art said. I had a new furnace installed by a local company. Within a year the $$$ electronic thermostat gave out. They came out and replaced it for free. Free part and free labor. Depending on the terms, maybe she should have paid labor, but it should be under $100.
In a rental house we have, the furnace quit and two guys were dispatched. They did some testing and found a broken wire. It was fixed within an hour and we were only charged the basic initial 1 hour rate-$85 or something-even though they could have charged for two guys.
In both cases, I asked up front what the charges would be. I will do business with these companies again because they treated me right. Try to overcharge or swindle customers, and you won’t be in business long either.
I think the “argument” here is that many people believe something being under warranty means it will not cost you more than the service call fee. Most warranty work is free. My “motherboard” blew recently on a less than year old computer. New motherboard and technician to install it — free. Technician who found problem and diagnosed it — service call fee.
Personally, I do think that $257.00 was recouping the cost of the part or the truck/trip/time to some extent. $79-89 is the going service call fee for HVAC calls. I paid one today that was $65.00 for probably 5 minutes work, but that expertise was priceless indeed.
People should clarify what is actually covered in every warranty, before the work is done, or expect to get hosed more often than not.
Pitiful how folks will gladly pay their doctors 50 bucks for a band-aid but pinch Lincoln until he screams when it comes to the service professional. Matt, you know zilch about running a business, don’t even try. Want a good warranty that covers labor? Read the fine print.
Art Hill, it never ceases to amaze me how many people believe that a fair price for service is defined by their need being met while the company that performed the service breaks even. There is a risk which must be met with reward, otherwise no one would work for himself/herself.
Unfortunately there are enough unethical local hvac firms to give the lot of them a bad name. One common ploy is to tell the customer that the heat exchanger is cracked, and releasing carbon monoxide into the home. The recommendation is always to replace the furnace. If someone tells you this and they are not using an instrument to measure the CO, it is a scam. If you heat with gas, buy a CO detector. That way you will know.
To be upfront, I’m joking with this comment.
Did anyone think that Ms. Osborne just made a contribution to SuzieQ’s retirement fund??
Dan, chuck may be right. My theory is that the HVAC guy is an agent of the UN (approved and paid for by Obama). He was trying to sell me a new furnace so that he could install one of those new UN thermostats the Tea Party talks about. It’s Big Brother, Big Government, Obama trying to rule the world I tell you!
BillPerdue…LOL. He was an ICLEI guy!
It’s been awhile since I was in the computer repair business, but any computer, printer, monitor, etc. I ever worked on under warranty, that warranty covered most parts, but ALL labor. We still got paid by whomever covered the warranty.
Next time GTS! I’ve fixed my furnace, clothes dryer & washing machine after Googling the problem. You’d be surprised how often it’s something so ridiculously small that you can handle by yourself.
bill@28…
Yes, it all makes sense now. What else could it be?
#30 dobbs, I recently bought a computer locally that experienced some glitches early on. I would have been furious if the shop had tried to charge me labor. They didn’t and I’m happy.
Where did the idea come in that if the technician had taken longer the bill would have been the same amount, come into this? I think Old Blue nailed it in #14.
We’ve bought a few warranties through the years (and had stuff serviced under factory warranties) and I cannot recall ever being charged for warranty-related work…parts or labor. We’ve had work done on vehicles, a dishwasher, several computers, and a TV…through several companies like Ford (and a used car dealer), Best Buy, and Dell.
I nearly hate to mention this for fear of jinxing the blessed respite, and don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining, but isn’t it sadly predictable that after thirty-five posts on the topic of HVAC, the blog’s self-appointed expert on everything, who claims to be part of a major local HVAC company, has not posted anything on the thread? Maybe if real, it was that thing’s company that was involved with the OP, or maybe it’s just been too busy gathering records for canonization as the patron saint of ductwork, or maybe it was lying all along.
Art, I am a licensed contractor and have to turn away business. Obviously the labor should be paid for. I would expect her to pay less than $100 for 1 hour call. If the part is under warranty, that is typically paid for by the manufacture, not the contractor.
Sandi Saunders:
“Where did the idea come in that if the technician had taken longer the bill would have been the same amount, come into this?”
It’s cslled a flat rste.
Elena…You’d be surprised how often it’s something so ridiculously small that you can handle by yourself.
Absolutely! While some things are simply beyond my ability, I’ve found that several repairs, such as to our fridge, were incredibly easy. I’ve bought parts from repairclinic.com…they often have tutorial videos and instructions on doing the repairs…and their prices for parts are very reasonable. We’ve saved hundreds of dollars in parts and labor by fixing as many things ourselves as possible, which helps defray the cost for the labor when something happens that we’re not able to tackle.
You people are too much…..such a long thread complaining and whining about how you feel you got overcharged. $257 is reasonable to diagnose and repair your system. Almost all furnaces come with warrantys that cove parts only, or heat exchanger only. It take time and expertise to determine that a particular part is indeed defective and often must be proven in order to get a free replacement part.Next time, perhaps you’d feel better if you spent hours and hours on a DIY forum figuring out what could be wrong w/ your furnace. RE: Computer warranty may have free labor, yes, take your furnace apart and bring down to my shop like you did your computer, then maybe everything will be free, but if a tech has to come out, crawl in you basement, attic or whatever you should be a little bit more appreciative.