A few notes on civility and this blog’s moderation
All of the Roanoke.com bloggers got together Thursday for a confab and lunch at which we discussed changes that will be rolled out with Roanoke.com and the blogs over the next two months or so. To make a long story short, the blogs are going to be more a more prominent and important part of Roanoke.com than ever.
One of the questions we touched on was civility in the comments, something we regularly push the boundaries on here, the “Rants and Raves” blog. I won’t bore you with all those details — the entire FAQ on that is here. Below are three of the salient questions it addresses.
• Who moderates the comments?
• What are some reasons why my comment might be rejected?
• Why do the rules of engagement seem to change from blog to blog?
To sum it all up, we’re aiming for a more civil atmosphere. Already on this blog we don’t allow racial slurs or cuss words like the S-word, the F-word, the MF-word and so on (you know them) or potentially libelous attacks on individuals. But we’re going to try to reign it in just a bit more:
- We should try to stay on-topic, while keeping in mind that there will always be some drift in conversations in the comments. As in the past, there will be daily (or near daily) open threads on this blog for topics readers want to address that don’t fit neatly into other blog posts.
- We should do our best to avoid schoolboy-style name calling, both toward each other (example: “troll” or “grandad”) and public figures we’re discussing (examples: Obuma, Rmoney). That kind of stuff doesn’t strengthen debate; it childishly demeans it.
Having said that, strong language is encouraged here as always. But use it to attack arguments, not each other. Don’t call other posters imbeciles. If you feel that way, explain why their argument is imbecilic.
There also are some changes on the admin side of the moderation system that you won’t notice (though I will). As time goes on, those are likely to result in more frequent out-of-order postings. For example, the numbers on comments you see may change depending on the order in which the comments come in and are approved, as a thread is active.
For that reason, it would be best not to respond to a comment with “#35, wonderfully put” because that comment might end up as #36 or #37 or whatever, later on. Instead, copy and paste the text you agree with and lead off your comment with that, in quotes, then respond to it. I usually put the words I’m reacting to in italics.
If you care to, you all can do that too, with the following coding:
<em>text you want in italics.</em>
This is no requirement, though. Just make sure that if you employ the coding, you use the forward slash in the HTML character set at the end of the phrase you intend to be in italics. Otherwise, they won’t be turned off and the whole post will be italicized.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome. If you spot egregious violations of the policies, bring them to my attention in the comments. But try not to be a blag nanny about it, OK? Notice the large gray areas in the border of the graphic above. Those will remain — and anyway, I still have columns to report and write!
Thanks folks, and carry on!
December 7, 2012 - 8:00 AM
Sounds good to me and I more than welcome the changes.
“We should do our best to avoid schoolboy-style name calling, both toward each other (example: “troll” or “grandad”) and public figures we’re discussing (examples: Obuma, Rmoney). That kind of stuff doesn’t strengthen debate; it childishly demeans it.”
Considering Dan and his cronies are the worst offenders, I doubt this is going to happen. This is only an attempt to limit the ridiculing of the President. Are you going to stop the trashing of Suzie? Ridiculous-looking pictures of Republican women? Cooch?
I can hear the conversation now “Our guy won re-election. Now we need to limit criticism of him so he can do what we want him to do. We won’t allow behavior like we used on Bush and Romney”. No one bothered to remember we have a state election next year and the Roanoke Times is leading the charge against Cuccinelli. You are going to need that ridicule machine in just a few months.
#2 Gosh, I was going to cue the countdown to the whining from suzie, but Henry had beaten her to the punch.
“Are you going to stop the trashing of Suzie? ”
Gosh, Henry, did you fail to notice that one of the examples Dan gave was “troll,” which most often is applied to suzie? Even though that description of suzie has the advantage of being the truth, Dan is saying he’d prefer not to see it. (grandad, OTOH, is NOT true in my case)
Dan…
at least early on it appears
the civility symposium is paying off.
..There will always be those that
always play in the gray…but hey..
isnt that always the way.
I can see this is going to be a challenging adjustment for some.
Off topic:
Regarding the supermarket reset subject:
Help them reset yes help them.
When you visit the store pick up a few items beans, dog food
laundry soap etc and carry them to other parts of the store
and reset them. Dog food to canned soup, beans to lunch meat
section, laundry soap to beer cooler etc.
It is great fun no harm done and drives them crazy. He He
Thank you for calling it appropriately, the “forward slash” or simply “slash.” It is a pet peeve of mine when every slash is referred to as a “backslash.”
I guess just a side-effect of living in the IT world.
And immediately Dan’s friends are referred to as “cronies” and post number three references post number two. Awesome.
The more things change the more they stay the same. But I do agree with Henry.
“Considering Dan and his cronies are the worst offenders, I doubt this is going to happen.” Henry
Obviously someone needs a refresher on reading comprehension.
WOW, too bad the Roanoke Times and blog hosts did not come up with Henry’s brilliant plan before 2009! Better late than never I suppose.
I think the archives will tell the tale that “Dan and his cronies are the worst offenders” is not accurate in the epithet hurling, or name calling genre of communication. He has hosted some really ugly stuff.
Henry@2
I suspect the change in the blogs come from on high, not from Dan’s desk. I welcome such changes, but if I were moderating a blog it would not. It will require a more subjective judgement than the current liberal policy, and I cannot imagine how much time it takes to moderate such a forum in the first place.
Yeah, right Sandi.
Somebody else came up with Super Cooch. GMAB.
Ron May, you are so right, but I am looking forward to the changes. Elimination of petty name-calling should lead to more succinct posts and deeper debates. A sharp wit is a most civil way to communicate disagreement!
Compared to many other blogs, this one is already civil. Though I do like the idea of rejecting off-topic posts. It’s annoying when the kiddies hi-jack a thread, (especially when you start an open one every day.) You dump a couple of their posts that they put in the wrong place and problem will go away fast.
I would hope that Rob is joking in #6, because doing that sort of thing is a significant problem for retail. Workers have to take those items and put them back in their proper location, and you’d be surprised at the volume of products that must be stocked in their proper locations on a daily basis. Plus, this creates a nightmare for ordering and inventory when products are randomly scattered throughout the store, because quite often, those products get hidden behind other items, and wind up being considered lost.
For a grocery store, this is doubly problematic because of the expiration dates on products. It’s sadly common to see frozen or refridegerated items places erroniously in the store by customers, and those items…once no longer in their proper location, must be thrown away for food safety reasons, because they most likely were not maintained at proper temperatures. That increases the store shrink and impacts pricing to customers, who must pay for that shrink by having it factored into the sales price of goods sold.
Sorry for the spelling on that last post, typed too quickly and forgot to proof it.
Regarding the potential changes, I suppose for most blogs there won’t be any appreciable difference in the daily content of most contributors, but the political blogs I can see having some level of impact. My main concern still remains the software that will be utilized for the reboot. The systems mentioned did not appear to allow he current method of submitting blog comments, and also did not appear to work with a roanoke.com registration. They all appear to require registration with and use of a social media account of some sort (or other 3rd party registration), and that’s not something I’m willing to do.
If calling the President and others by their proper names while criticizing them is a hardship, then shame on the poster. No one said the criticism has to stop, just the juvenile name calling
“Our guy won re-election. Now we need to limit criticism of him so he can do what we want him to do. …”
BTW, Henry do you REALLY believe that Dan’s blog or the RT blogs collectively have so much power that they can alter the course the president takes? That criticism on these blogs might stop him in his tracks. Seriously?
Let’s hear an answer from you. You’re real good at disappearing once you’ve thrown some mud in the water.
Next up for the blogs: Everyone gets a trophy.
Debbie,
The host (moderator) of this Blog has been calling Virginia Attorney General “Super Cooch” (later amended to just “Cooch”) basically since the AG took office (if not before).
That is, if you are looking for a direction to throw the rocks…..
OJ, for the blogs we’re sticking with WordPress. We’re not going to be accepting comments via Facebook or other third parties. It’s simply that there are some other moderation changes in the background.
Mattyr says:
Next up for the blogs: Everyone gets a trophy.
Mattry, I love it. And please board, may we have equal playing time, no score keeping and a little self-esteem thrown in? Basing successes on merit is SO non-inclusive!
Boy, I sure am gonna miss Steve C.!
Dan, that is indeed excellent news…thanks, the folks at the RefreshRT blog made it sound definitive that the software was being swapped out for something new that did require social media logins. I’m glad that is not the case.
Hey Alfred,
…me too!
Alfred,
I too am a fan of Steve C’s often side-splittingly funny over-the-top rants. But they are not necessarily gone from our threads. All he has to do is redirect them at arguments rather than individuals.
Re: Sandi Saunders @ 8:33 am
Looks as if this is another issue on which we can fully agree?
Dan, what about the use of those random character swear word substitutes? Will Sarge from Beetle Bailey still get to post on this #*!&ing blog?
Re: Nosaj @ 10:57 am
“A sharp wit is a most civil way to communicate disagreement!”
——————-
Although that is very true that it “communicate disagreement”, IMHO, it is not the best way to build consensus or influence folks’ thinking — as it tends to create more heat than light.
Bob H, if “Super Cooch” was the only unflattering nickname used here, I would indeed GYAB.
I’m not throwing rocks, Bob H. Just stating my position. Trust me, I know how hard it is not to call some people on here unflattering names.
“That is, if you are looking for a direction to throw the rocks…..”
Uhh, Bob H, I think this place probably has had a little to do with spreading that one around:
http://coochwatch.com/
Just sayin’
“and post number three references post number two. Awesome.”
Gee willikers, Jack, can you teach the rest of us to change immediately and be absolutely perfect — just like you?
Spot on Nosaj! In case anyone doubts it, I like to argue. I like to discuss things and issues and events and refute or support what is being said. I can insult and denigrate with the best of the worst, but I have never enjoyed it and I most definitely agree it diminishes the person and the subject. I do not do so with people I respect, even when I disagree vehemently with them.
I love a challenge and a fair playing field. I love the printed word and blogs are just an extension of that. Smart writing, wit, satire and a cogent argument serve everyone better than epithets and childish taunts. Most of us can be driven to return fire, but I really like it better when I can “win” on the merits of what I support.
Let’s rise to the occasion and make this blog the best blog on earth!
Warren,
Random character swear word substitutes are OK, long as they’re not overdone.
This makes the blog worth checking in a bit more often. Frankly, I was getting bored with all the childish posts and therefore not contributing as much in the past.
Going forward it will be interesting to see the evolution of how certain people communicate their agendas and debate the issues. I really try to be respectful of everyone, but admit, my attitude was getting to be you really need to throw the flames back at the flame throwers to stay in the game. Bully the bully so to speak.
I’m pleased with the changes.
Dan, I have to ask whether the confab considered the plight of those like myself who already suffer with an unflattering name. These additional guidelines-particularly the requirement for wit-will make it much harder for us. So, how about asking the other blog masters to add this to the terms of service that bloggers must accept:
“I allege allegiance to the blogs of the Roanoke Times of Virginia, and to the reading public which they expand, one narration fun or odd, indivisible; wit, trust us, a mystery for all…”
Dan:
“Warren,
Random character swear word substitutes are OK, long as they’re not overdone.”
So long as maligning and charcter assassination of other bloggers and their businesses are no longer tolerated, such words may no longer be necessary anyway.
Re: Debbie @ 2:16 pm
Trust me, I know how hard it is not to call some people on here unflattering names.
—————-
Yup. I agree — particularly when the poster I have so labeled is doing it.
However, I am more than willing to work at mastering the skill.
IMHO, the key to the change for this blog will be Dan blocking / deleting non-conforming comments — name calling/disparaging, Ad Hominem attacks, inappropriate language, off topic comments, etc.
However, I do not have a lot of confidence. Past announcements of this sort of reform were not followed through. There are already off topic comments about “store resetting” which have not been deleted from this thread, even though there is an “Open Thread” today and the “Supermarket Switcheroo” thread is only a day old.
Dan, IMHO, you need to delete threads ruthlessly. As you said “we regularly push the boundaries on here, the “Rants and Raves” blog.” That incremental-ism will reemerge until you establish the actual boundaries, firmly.
Sounds like a mature direction…
Only one question, is the “F” word that will cause a post to be dumped “fiscal”? lol
Dan, do you like it when people call you Dan-o?
Dan, do you like it when people call you Dan-o?
–Comment by scott
I don’t really care, scott. There are pals from my college days who still call me that.
I have no doubt that Steve C can become very creative.
Dan, now you and the RT are just taking the fun/entertainment value out of everything! So much fun reading the creative ways that you all tear each other a new ars on a regular basis, from both sides of the isle. Can we no longer say “ars” on the blog?
I guess I should feel bad that I derailed the big civility summit (aka the Stop Suzie Summit) by being perfectly civil for last month or so. I knew Dan would have to throw in something I haven’t said in a month as an illustration, and sure enough.
I’m guessing at next month’s meeting, they’ll throw in a ‘proselytizing’ clause. No more talking about God, Mary, or the Saints. Those beings are distasteful to the regime. And no more calling 0bama a Communist!
Henry is correct. The RT’s mission is to now smooth the way for the Fuhrer to enact his anti-capitalism anti-God agenda without criticism.
I have no doubt that Steve C can become very creative.
Steve C. can’t post without personal insults. Dan already made it clear he will prop up Steve C.’s lame material while protecting him from getting battered.
Wow, this must be a record, not even for one post could she rein it in. I can say I am not the least surprised.
Now how exactly is one to remain civil when you have people like Suzie still substituting “0″ for “O” in Obama, not to mention calling him “the Fuhrer”? You approved a comment doing exactly what you said would no longer be tolerated, Dan.
When stuff like that pops up, we should be more than free to annihilate her for it, especially when she claims her overwhelming ennui at the election whooping she took is really just some masterminded plot to “derail” the civility confab.
I know you certainly don’t have time to scour every comment before approval and don’t expect a massive policing effort, but you don’t find it ironic that you let someone do (on the thread announcing it, no less) precisely what you said would no longer be done?
J.M. White is right, Dan.
It’s a sad day when people complain about civility. Lack of civility used to be what was frowned upon, and still should be.
Hey folks, you’re right about the zero-bama thing. She can spell it correctly in the future, or it will be relegated to the trash bin and nobody will ever see it.
I don’t have as big a problem with her referring to him as “the Fuhrer” on second reference, provided there’s a correct first reference. Rhetorically, it’s a cheap shot, but the guy’s the leading public figure in the land. That’s a little bit different from personally attacking another poster here.
I don’t mess with anyone’s name whether they’re a public figure or another blogger here. It’s just a disrepect that I don’t like personally. that said, I actually don’t have a problem with “bammy” “0bama (zero-bama)” “Rmoney” or whatever as they are expressions of respect or lack thereof for a public figure. I respect the office far more than its holder, right now, so I don’t do it, but I’m okay with their thoughts on him.
Calling gdad “gdud” or Suzie “Screwzie” is different and borderline personal (because those are blog handles). Butchering someone’s real name is directly personal and not cool.
I did it exactly once here. Mike Scott hacked up my name three posts in a row, to the point it looked purposeful. I addressed him as “Mike Scat”. My apologies, Mike.
.
If you’re giving your approval to this, “the Fuhrer” you can look forward to seeing it a lot.
My problem with “bammy” and “obuma” is not so much with the disrespect that’s intended, but that they sound stupid and make the person using them seem stupid. Even if you don’t respect the public figure, have some respect for yourself.
Dan,
From the OP, “We should do our best to avoid schoolboy-style name calling, both toward each other (example: “troll” or “grandad”) and public figures we’re discussing (examples: Obuma, Rmoney).”
So, why is the, “The RT’s mission is to now smooth the way for the Fuhrer to enact his anti-capitalism anti-God agenda without criticism [emphasis added]” comment still here?
As I said earlier, incremental-ism will reemerge until you establish the actual boundaries, firmly.
Dave
BTW, that comment by Suzie proves once again that she has failed in the claim of being civil, IMHO.
Debbie:
“but that they sound stupid and make the person using them seem stupid”
Let them. Perhaps they are. They know it and can make that choice.
I don’t envy your position Dan, but you can’t have it both ways.
“The RT’s mission is to now smooth the way for the Fuhrer to enact his anti-capitalism anti-God agenda without criticism.”
It took suzie 10 hours but she fulfilled my prediction in #3. Thanks, suze.
So much for civility.
And, suzie, I wasn’t aware that the RT or its blogs had so much power that their changing of a few rules would smooth the way for a takeover. Amazing.
“A leopard cannot change its spots”, is not an old saying for nothing. Dan, and the Roanoke Times have exactly two choices, and they are well aware of it. It would do us all good to be reminded that this is not “our” blog. It might also be time to think about what we would all do to such a “guest” if it were.
Warren, loved your take on the pledge -well done!
Dave Hicks, I rarely shy awaynfrom a little heat in a debate; I think it the conflict creates opportunity for growth. That said, wit, sarcasm, parody used maliciusly is bad form. As you note, it can be a slippery slope.
Seriously, Suzie’s post pushes the envelope but doesn’t go out of bounds. I appreciate that misuse of names will be unacceptable, but comparison to historical firgures is probably within the bounds of civility. I believe we can help Dan establish a culture of civility by responding to Suzie’s post in a civil but pointed manner or by choosing not to respond at all. I choose the latter.
There is no doubt in my mind that this change will make the board a better place.
Personally I really don’t need to insult anybody anymore; the mere fact that I trained my subjects so well I elicit responses Pavlov would envy before I post a single word illustrates how well I do my job. This is serious control, people. Cesar Millan would envy my skills; I could domesticate a honey badger.
Anybody else check out Dickens of a Christmas tonight?
Re: Dan Casey @ 2:51 pm
“Random character swear word substitutes are OK, long as they’re not overdone.”
—————–
Overdone as in the swear-word is clearly understood — e.g., a couple “$$” in place of a couple of “ss” to spell an anal word.
Or, overdone as in too often?
IMHO, the “too often” approach will leave you open to (maybe valid) criticism of uneven application.
Re: Nosaj @ 10:45 pm
I would agree with the use of similes for comparison to historical figures, as the form signals a clear literary device.
However, I’m not sure of the non-arbitrary dividing line between crude metaphoric references and outright name calling.
As said above, I don’t envy Dan in this undertaking.
Dan, I wish you luck.
I was reflecting on this thread and realized that Suzie has just skillfully reminded us that “troll” is also a verb. She ran a test of the new guidelines, just toeing the waters of what is now verboten, seeing how many Gonzos would bite, and we fell for it. ‘Twas a well-played bit of rabble rousing, I must admit. I’m glad the intentional misspelling of the president’s name will cease, though.
I don’t know that I’ve ever had a comment trashed here and I feel like I’m often pushing the limits. This being Dan’s house and all, I’ll abide by the rules. Should I ever feel the need call someone a slack-jawed hillbilly d0uchecan0e because they truly believe that our president is the Antichrist or Hitler or the Tooth Fairy, I have other forums for that.
Maybe because my friends and I speak to each other in a derogatory manner all the time I’m just not fazed by the name-calling. Unless someone is being willfully idiotic, I try to resort to name-calling as a response in kind only. It’s not easy, though; it really is a lot of fun to call someone a “$@#%waffle”.
Perhaps it’s because I just can’t bring myself to take the internet (or life) seriously.
And I just can’t not take everything seriously. How do you do that exactly JM White? At 54 I hold out no hope, but I am intrigued.
And I just can’t not take everything seriously. How do you do that exactly JM White? At 54 I hold out no hope, but I am intrigued.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — December 8, 2012 @ 12:55 am
Age is irrelevant, IMO, even when used as a sheath for one’s stiletto of cynicism.
The answer isn’t so simple, of course. I’ve died twice and been resuscitated; that certainly shapes my perspective somewhat. It’s only a matter of time before my third strike. I’ve accepted and even embraced the fact that one day I’ll stop breathing and cease to function in this mortal coil. When I truly understood that fact, a huge burden was released from me.
Life is meant for joy, Sandi. Every day, I find joy and wonder in simple things – the way the water in the puddle outside my doorstep prisms sunlight at dawn onto the ceiling of the living room – the smell of a waffle on the iron – the nearly electric feeling of the skin of the one with whom you’re in love. We live on a technicolor dreamland of a planet, so why dwell on the darkness when there’s so much to see in the light?
Every single day I’m thankful for how fortunate I have it. I’m still a dirt-poor tradesman, but less than three years ago I was living in a tent. I know what it’s like to go hungry and be cold. I’ve found that very few people do and we take it for granted.
People are going to be idiotic, annoying, appalling and even horrifying. That’s just the way it is. Before they change, they have to want to. I’ve given up on changing the world socially. I’m focusing on changing the world technologically. The point is that whether we like it or not, people are morons and we shouldn’t get angry at morons, we should pity them… and point and laugh a lot… and poke them with sticks… okay, maybe not the stick thing.
In the meantime, focus on having fun with the finite time we have left. In person, I’m likely to spout off some crackpot theory or nonsensical verbiage with a deadpan expression just to see your reaction and if you take me seriously or not. How bad do you think I can be when it’s just a bunch of data sent over the internet?
When it all gets too tough, turn the phone/TV/radio off, walk/drive wherever the winds/whims take you and just take a day to… be. No politics, no bills-are-due worrying, no firearms debates – just be. Look, touch, hear, smell and taste your world. I’ve gone to a lumber store solely to smell and touch the different woods. At the time, I worked in a food store at the mall, so I really had zero use for lumber of any sort. Just go and exist for a day. You might find that there’s a lot more happiness to be had than suffering and sorrow.
My method is not apathy, it’s more acceptance of inevitability and I’d never claim it’ll work for everyone. I’m working seven a days a week through Christmas this year and I’m suffering a bot of insomnia. I should wrecked (and aggravated about it) right now. Nope. I’ll go to work in a few hours and crack jokes all day long and come home and pollute Dan’s blog with my mindless inane blather.
This ridiculously rambling comment was brought to you by: “Will He Ever STFU? Epic I – Volume I”, the thrilling premier novel in the completely unanticipated series by J.M. White – available on scamazon.com and at your local Bjorn’s and Nuble booksellers.
Hey folks, you’re right about the zero-bama thing. She can spell it correctly in the future, or it will be relegated to the trash bin and nobody will ever see it.
Here we go. We knew the 0 thing would go. That one has always boiled the libs’ butt, but they couldn’t do anything about it. Now the Stop Suzie Summit has passed an edict. The Leader will always be treated with the utmost respect. Apparently word was sent down from the top.
But you can rest assured there is no way I will use his name. I will use descriptive monikers, but I will never show someone whose goal is the destruction of the country the slightest bit of respect.
J.M. White @2:53 am, great post.
I’ve died twice and been resuscitated; that certainly shapes my perspective somewhat.
Did you have a near death experience, John W?
One more thing before I embark on my busy day:
Leave it to a roomful of liberals to screw up something that is already successful. I’ve told you in great detail why this blog has worked stunningly well: You have allowed freedom for people to get passionate. As in society, whenever you impose silly pointless regulation, you stifle the activity. That’s what will happen here if you adhere to the school-marm philosophy. This is what you get for listening to Christian Trejbal’s input at the Civility Summit. Now all the blogs can be like his. So damn boring, nobody tunes in.
I would guess during the past year, at least before November, this blog averaged two or three 100-post threads a week. I say you’ll be lucky to get one a month now. Better load up on the gun threads.
JM …really really good stuff..
that came from a terrific place.
And I do identify.
Outstanding!
“I was reflecting on this thread and realized that Suzie has just skillfully reminded us that “troll” is also a verb.”
Yes, JM, but so predictable. I guess I could have predicted “trolling” in my post #3, but sometimes it’s so much closer to whining.
And is skillful trolling something to be proud of?
#51 “I don’t have as big a problem with her referring to him as “the Fuhrer” on second reference, provided there’s a correct first reference.”
Seriously, Dan? How about if “monkey boy” starts popping up again?
The Fuhrer has no racial component, gdad. “Monkey boy” did.
#73 Not according to suzie. Just ask her.
Re: gdad’s post @ 9:22 Please don’t.
“But you can rest assured there is no way I will use his name. I will use descriptive monikers,”
And here you go, Dan. The last time you declared “names” off limits suzie simply rewrote the rules. She imperiously declared that descriptive monikers were perfectly OK. And then violated even that, just as she’s already done here. Good luck.
Boy, I warned everybody about the impending whining from suzie.
“Overdone as in the swear-word is clearly understood — e.g., a couple “$$” in place of a couple of “ss” to spell an anal word. Or, overdone as in too often?”
comment by Dave Hicks
Dave Hicks, I think the key to this that you missed is the random element. The example you gave is as far from randomn as possible. So in addition to quantity, overdone can also mean used too much for hiding in plain sight. That’s why I deliberately used Sarge as a reference, since his swearing has appeared alongside Mary Worth, Ann Landers and Billy Graham for decades.
random
“incremental-ism will reemerge until you establish the actual boundaries, firmly”
comment by Dave Hicks
One wonders what actual Libertarians, and not just those who call themselves that as it suits them, think of this. In any case, we now know to judge Dave Hicks’ positions by his support for boundaries, since he’s clear in his support of them when he believes them justified.
I guess free speech is fine as long as it fits in the guidelines of what the left leaning RT and is blog police approve? Obummer!
Maloof, the RW blogs are privately owned and the first amendment isn’t an issue here.
J. M. White at 2:53 – Good Stuff. Taking a day to just go where you go, embracing what comes your way is definitely liberating. I don’t view most people as morons, though. I generally think most people do their best day by day. That’s all I can do, and I cannot expect more from the folks around me.
Posts like this, sir, are what make this blog worthwhile. Thank you!
I find it humorous that supporters of the party of family values, are the ones complaining about civility.
The food stamp program, administered by the Dept. of Agriculture, is administering the greatest amount of food stamps ever..to over 46 million people..just a small amount of the `free` stuff given away by the Dept……meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the Dept., of Interior, asks us “Please do NOT feed the animals.“ Their stated reason for the policy is because the animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves. This has been todays lesson in IRONY.
Re: Warren @ 10:50 am
Huh?
Do you think libertarians do not believe in understanding boundaries?
Yes, I do advocate minimizing governmental coercion and I emphasize freedom, liberty, and voluntary association.
Understanding the boundaries of a blog can be a driver in maintaining or dropping my voluntary association with it.
True the anarchistic schools of libertarianism advocate something such as you might be referencing. However, they do not define the whole scope of libertarianism.
FWIIW, within the broad spectrum of the overall libertarian camp, I lean more toward being a Minarchist / Geolibertarian.
Although I am not a strong propertarianist libertarian, I recognize that this blog is private property. Hence, the RT’s rules rule. Hence, my voluntary association mandates conformity — as aggression / violation of the rules would be a violation of private property.
Don’t confuse understanding the need for some working rules within a voluntary association as being contradictory with advocating a society with significantly less governmental intrusion into the bedroom, the boardroom, the womb, essential freedoms, etc. There is a big difference between governmental censorship and the rules set by private property and agreed to by voluntary association.
As for those complaining about Cuccinelli being called “Cooch”, the pronunciation of Cucc is cooch. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a nickname that his friends used when he was in school. I don’t know that it was, but it is quite possible.
Re: Debbie @ 2:52 pm
It is somewhat typical of authoritarians to be very much into, “Do as I say not as I do.”
The “My way or the highway” crowd have little problem with their own hypocrisy.
To everyone complaining about the new civility protocols, I urge you to consider a couple of points;
1-Dan does not have to provide or support this blog. It’s a service he’s providing us free of charge and he’s not making any ducats off this puppy.
2-Dan’s the strongest advocate of free speech I know. He’s put up with a whole ration of horse hockey from some ungrateful ingrates and malcontents that got kicked off lesser blogs. If I was the king a whole bunch of posters would have gotten the boot years ago.
3-The civility initiative is not his idea but he’s required to enforce it, meaning the blog just got about 8 million times more time intensive for our host.
The question we should be asking Dan should be thus;
“Dan, thanks so much for providing us this highly entertaining outlet for our creative talent free of charge; what make of fine single malt scotch can I buy you for Christmas to show my appreciation for sharing your blog with us?”
I’ve died twice and been resuscitated–Comment by J.M. White
J.M., did you have a near-death experience in either case?
Thanks JM White. Excellent reply. Being the oldest of 4 and expected to “look after” them all into perpetuity on some levels, I have been serious as all get out since coming to grips with some cruel realities at the age of 5. If only it were just “a bunch of data sent over the internet“, I could easily dismiss it. The truth is that it is far from that. People I love, have and will suffer for not being what is considered “normal” and “acceptable”. People I love, have and will suffer for not being “producers”. The right wing valuation process is inhuman.
I get what you are saying and I do all of that. There is not a day that I do not laugh, or find someone to be kind to and I enjoy the simple pleasures of not being chained to money and hate. I love my pets, my family, my church, my job, and my country. I consider that “quality of life” imperative. Maybe it does make me an “Authoritarian” to favor blind submission to manners and decency. Having stood up to bullies since a tender age, I cannot stop now. Even if I have turned into one.
I agree on the smell of lumber too! There is magic in the tragedy of cut trees. I value anything made of wood. However, a log truck makes me anxious and ill, I despise them.
How is that for “conflicted”?
AMEN Steve C!
Jeff Doto, you make the very wrong assumption that every person receiving food stamps wants to be in that position. Life is not black and white, and things happen that people can’t control.
JM White,
Thanks for sharing your story. Best wishes to you.
@90 (Myself)
After re-reading JM White’s testimonial, I regret asking the question about a near-death experience. It’s too personal and none of my business. Many apologies.
Alfred
Thank you, everyone, for the compliments.
Sandi: I understand about the wood/logging thing. At the very least, I take a little comfort in knowing that the forest industry has vastly improved its sustainability.
Suzie and Alfred: I did in fact have an experience of some sort the first time it happened. I’ll share it on an OPEN thread sometime. I’ve already hijacked this one bad enough.
I predict J.M. White’s profound post will be a future Post of the Day! And sooner rather than later.
“To everyone complaining about the new civility protocols, I urge you to consider a couple of points;
1-Dan does not have to provide or support this blog. It’s a service he’s providing us free of charge and he’s not making any ducats off this puppy.
2-Dan’s the strongest advocate of free speech I know. He’s put up with a whole ration of horse hockey from some ungrateful ingrates and malcontents that got kicked off lesser blogs. If I was the king a whole bunch of posters would have gotten the boot years ago.
3-The civility initiative is not his idea but he’s required to enforce it, meaning the blog just got about 8 million times more time intensive for our host.
The question we should be asking Dan should be thus;
“Dan, thanks so much for providing us this highly entertaining outlet for our creative talent free of charge; what make of fine single malt scotch can I buy you for Christmas to show my appreciation for sharing your blog with us?”
Everything that Steve C wrote above is true, except I hate Scotch and like bourbon but it doesn’t matter much right now because I’ve pretty much given up whiskey and other alcohol for the holiday season.
As we have agreed that the non-alpha-numeric can be substituted for letters, I thought I’d test the boundaries with a good example of good medical advice from the Jewish sages of old.
1. F***ing once a week is good for your health.
But it’s harmful if done every day.
2. F***ing relaxes your mind and body.
3. F***ing refreshes you.
4. After f***ing, don’t eat too much; go for more liquids.
5. Try f***ing in bed because it can save your valuable energy.
6. F***ing can even reduce your cholesterol levels
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So remember FASTING is good for your health and may God cleanse your dirty mind.
Just catching up after being out.
Well DONE STEVE C @ 6:33 pm
Dave Hicks @ 10:20 pm
Re: Dan Casey @ 10:14 pm
“I hate Scotch….”
——————
Dang it all, Dan.
I knew we disagreed on some important things, but that takes the case.
I hated Scotch until I was introduced to Lavagulin. Im the poorer for it.
I’ve pretty much given up whiskey and other alcohol for the holiday season.–Comment by Dan Casey
Dan, the nice thing about liquor is it don’t go bad. Is beer included in the ‘other’ alcohol category?
I knew we disagreed on some important things, but that takes the case.
Comment by Dave Hicks — December 8, 2012 @ 10:27 pm
Who took the case of Scotch Dave Hicks???
Why I will, once Steve C once it up and Dan refuses it.
Sounds like an important civic duty to me.
.
.
“Everything that Steve C wrote above is true, except I hate Scotch and like bourbon but it doesn’t matter much right now because I’ve pretty much given up whiskey and other alcohol for the holiday season.”
People, it’s the thought that counts. Just in case you want to show Casey some love and buy him that bottle of single malt, please know I’d be more than happy to hold it for him until he develops a taste for the stuff; I’m pretty certain he could learn to love a nice highlands scotch like maybe a 12 year old Macallan aged in sherry casks and this thoughtful gift would of course be perfectly safe under my watchful eye. Just sayin’ it would be a really nice way of telling Dan thanks and the sentiment would mean the world to him.
Scout’s honor; the stuff would be completely safe with me.
Alfred,
I’m just getting tired of alcohol altogether. Maybe I’ll change my mind once I get some more miles in on my bike. I’m out of shape, badly, and I need to get back in it. Rode for 3 hours today, hooray!
Nosaj:
“Seriously, Suzie’s post pushes the envelope but doesn’t go out of bounds. I appreciate that misuse of names will be unacceptable, but comparison to historical firgures is probably within the bounds of civility.”
We are on the same page here. Nosaj and I are in complete agreement on this. Besides, I firmly believe the readers of posts containing “bammy” and “Rmoney” will naturally draw conclusions about the poster and not the subject of the post.
J.M. White:
“Should I ever feel the need call someone a slack-jawed hillbilly d0uchecan0e because they truly believe that our president is the Antichrist or Hitler or the Tooth Fairy, I have other forums for that.”
LMAO! Had I been taking a sip of my Deit Dr. Pepper, I would have sprayed the keyboard!
Debbie:
“As for those complaining about Cuccinelli being called “Cooch”…”
I like Cuccinelli, support him for candidacy for governor, and call him that too. In fact, I would love to have a campaign t-shirt that reads “I love Cooch”, “Cooch in 2013″, “Virginia needs Cooch”, “Cooch is good” or anything like that.
.
Sandi Saunders:
“Maybe it does make me an “Authoritarian””
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression,…