Danger on the Monday OPEN thread
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., | Wikimedia Commons
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
And there is evidence of that right here every day. Sigh.
Happy MLK Day, everyone!
January 21, 2013 - 10:00 AM
“Conscientious stupidity”. Never heard that quote. Reminds me of:
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/06/inhofe-was-first-to-declare-global-warming-the-greatest-hoax/
Two items in today’s Looking Back on page 8 remind me about the old saw that the more things change, the more they remain the same.
In 1988, Steve Agee, a Repub from Salem, announced he would introduce a bill to set up a nonpartisan redistricting committee because the 1981 redistricting was such a circus. Dems, of course, either killed or smothered it. Fast forward to today and the roles are reversed. Sad.
In 1938 “The question of whether conditions in Roanoke public schools are adverse to the teaching of patriotism was raised at a meeting of the committee on patriotic affairs at Hotel Patrick Henry last night.”
Gee, I thought that back in the good old days everybody was uber-patriotic and all worshiped Jesus all the time. And the schools were infused with the flag and God. Anyway, flash forward to today and you’ve got folks like suzie dragging out the ghosts of Joe McCarthy and John Birch.
Now THAT was good for some yucks, scott.
My favorite…
“You may be 38 years old, as I happen to be. And one day, some great opportunity stands before you and calls you to stand up for some great principle, some great issue, some great cause. And you refuse to do it because you are afraid…. You refuse to do it because you want to live longer…. You’re afraid that you will lose your job, or you are afraid that you will be criticized or that you will lose your popularity, or you’re afraid that somebody will stab you, or shoot at you or bomb your house; so you refuse to take the stand.
Well, you may go on and live until you are 90, but you’re just as dead at 38 as you would be at 90. And the cessation of breathing in your life is but the belated announcement of an earlier death of the spirit.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.
yep, we see it everywhere…
Hey you libs,
did ya know that “obama has inherited 7.8% unemployment rate from himself…which is what he inherited from W., PLUS an additional $6 trillion more of debt” …which is now bigger than our GDP?
Interesting article regarding CA taxes and golfer Phil Mickelson. 62 to 63% overall tax rate for Phil. Looks like CA will be losing another resident!
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mickelson-plans-drastic-changes-over-074440543–golf.html
Proving how profound he was and remains.
Dr. King was a conservative Republican.
Watching the Presidential Inauguration and seeing an estimated 500,000 – 800,000 in attendance…all those “takers” in one place! Old, young, male, female, white, black – and everything in between, representing what is good in America…”Faith in America’s Future”.
This is the largest crowd ever for a presidential second term inauguration…
“Dr. King was a conservative Republican.”
–Comment by Leon
Leon, where did you come up with that nugget? Or did you simply make it up? While it’s true many southern black were registered as Republicans (the party of Lincoln) King’s history makes it clear that he studiously avoided party labels, although he most often voted for Democratic candidates in presidential elections. From Wikipedia:
As the leader of the SCLC, King maintained a policy of not publicly endorsing a U.S. political party or candidate: “I feel someone must remain in the position of non-alignment, so that he can look objectively at both parties and be the conscience of both—not the servant or master of either.”[28] In a 1958 interview, he expressed his view that neither party was perfect, saying, “I don’t think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses … And I’m not inextricably bound to either party.”[29]
King critiqued both parties’ performance on promoting racial equality:
Actually, the Negro has been betrayed by both the Republican and the Democratic party. The Democrats have betrayed him by capitulating to the whims and caprices of the Southern Dixiecrats. The Republicans have betrayed him by capitulating to the blatant hypocrisy of reactionary right wing northern Republicans. And this coalition of southern Dixiecrats and right wing reactionary northern Republicans defeats every bill and every move towards liberal legislation in the area of civil rights.[30]
Although King never publicly supported a political party or candidate for president, in a letter to a civil rights supporter in October 1956 he said that he was undecided as to whether he would vote for Adlai Stevenson or Dwight Eisenhower, but that “In the past I always voted the Democratic ticket.”[31] In his autobiography, King says that in 1960 he privately voted for Democratic candidate John F. Kennedy: “I felt that Kennedy would make the best president. I never came out with an endorsement. My father did, but I never made one.” King adds that he likely would have made an exception to his non-endorsement policy for a second Kennedy term, saying “Had President Kennedy lived, I would probably have endorsed him in 1964.”[32]
Leon, you are correct. And if JFK had the same policies today,fiscally, he would be in the Tea Party. We are running a $1.6 trillion a year deficit and close to half of that is borrowed. See how far we have already fallen?
Based on apple heads posts and now Leon -and Suzie, always- the strategy from the right seems to be to just made stuff up, throw it against the wall and see what sticks.
Watching the Presidential Inauguration and seeing an estimated 500,000 – 800,000 in attendance…all those “takers” in one place! Old, young, male, female, white, black – and everything in between, representing what is good in America…”Faith in America’s Future”.
This is the largest crowd ever for a presidential second term inauguration…
Comment by Hillary — January 21, 2013 @ 11:29 am
And none of them had to take the day off from work:)
Leon – in what world would MLK support the party of Barry Goldwater – a man who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964; Newt Gingrich – commented that the NAACP–one of America’s most storied civil rights organizations– ought to demand jobs and not food stamps from Barack Obama, “the Food Stamp President”; Ron Paul who claimed that the rights of black Americans are secondary to the “freedom” of whites to discriminate; Rick Santorum – told conservative voters that “black people” are parasites who live off hard-working white people; and how can we forget good ol’ boy, Rick Perry – joking and waxing nostalgic recalling memories of his family’s ranch, “Niggerhead”.
Martin Luther King would never support one of the above, nor the party that applauds their remarks.
“Dr. King was a conservative Republican.”
–Comment by Leon
Leon, where did you come up with that nugget? Or did you simply make it up? While it’s true many southern black were registered as Republicans (the party of Lincoln) King’s history makes it clear that he studiously avoided party labels, although he most often voted for Democratic candidates in presidential elections. From Wikipedia:
Comment by Dan Casey — January 21, 2013 @ 11:30 am
http://www.humanevents.com/2006/08/16/why-martin-luther-king-was-republican/
Leon, the author of that blog post, who goes by the anonymous name “frice” doesn’t document that King was a Republican. He/she merely asserts it, and since you want to believe that, you will. You’ll believe any “fact” that comports with your ideology, and disbelieve any that do not.
The passage I quote from Wikipedia is sourced and footnoted.
It’s true, though, that until the 1960s many southern blacks were registered Republicans. That was because Lincoln was a Republican, and many southern Democrats were racists. It makes sense in that context.
But the makeups of the parties began shifting in the late 1960s, after King’s assassination, with the “southern strategy” Richard Nixon ran in the 1968 election. And in the past 45 years party identification has nearly completely shifted. The racist former Democrats now by and large identify as Republicans. And black southerners identify as Democrats.
King was no fool. If he was alive today, he’d be more aligned with Democrats than the GOP. So would JFK and Ronald Reagan.
In honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. the college paused at 10:30 this morning to hold a discussion about the significance of Dr. King’s life for us today. Students, faculty, college staff and visitors all participated in the discussions & presentations. The program closed just a few minutes ago with everyone sharing food and conversation. Part of the closing ceremony was joining in the singing of the song linked below. It was moving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgWFxFg7-GU
AND, speaking of stupidity…
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2104033278001/
Mr. Obama has absolutely NOTHING in common with Martin Luther King, who was a great man with great vision.
I can just picture King getting a beer with Strom and Jesse.
Dan, I believe good men like King, JFK and Reagan would be alligned with the Democrats on some issues and Republicans on some. However, I believe they would be fiscally responsible. Therefore, I’m not sure who they would align with given the lack of spending restraint by both parties.
King was no fool. If he was alive today, he’d be more aligned with Democrats than the GOP. So would JFK and Ronald Reagan.
Comment by Dan Casey — January 21, 2013 @ 12:12 pm
I thing you are the fool Dan. MLK would be in the Tea Party as would Reagan. JFK, as a Senator, voted against the civil rights act.
The present Republican party is not necessarily conservative. . .there is
even a term for it. . .RINOs. Certainly MLK would not be amongst the
liberal progressive Democrats.
One of the first things they taught us in college is to critically think about the source in which we rad information. What are the motives and predisposition of the author?
It is becoming wildly obvious that the major contingent of the right wing readership of this blog never went to college, or never learned this lesson.
However, it is not shocking that Right Wingers on the whole are less intelligent. They’ve been rejecting science and logic in favor of faith and emotion for years.
(Also, please do not confuse Republicans with Right Wingers, they are rapidly approaching mutual exclusivity.)
Another Chuck
Mickelson should be ashamed of himself for complaining about paying 63% of his income in federal and state taxes taxes. We all know 63% is not enough. Wise men like Obama are pushing for even higher taxes.
As far as I’m concerned, you can’t punish the rich enough. This world would be a much better place if all we had were poor people.
Dan,
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/01/martin-luther-kings-conservative-legacy
Martin Luther King endorsed conservative principles.
HAPPY SQUIRREL APPRECIATION DAY?
Seriously? THAT’s the day selected for MLK day, and obama’s inaugural?
Oh. It was created in 2001? To celebrate RODENTS? Figures. Sheesh.
Hmmm. I smell a conspiracy.
From President Obama’s inaugural speech:
“We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate.”
“You and I, as citizens, have the power to set this country’s course.
You and I, as citizens, have the obligation to shape the debates of our time – not only with the votes we cast, but with the voices we lift in defense of our most ancient values and enduring ideals.”
Ruh-roh, Raggy,
Apparently the big bad conservatives aren’t the only ones who don’t appreciate critical outbursts at planned political functions.
Click here.
Adultery by a Baptist preacher might be worse than sincere ignorance.
Face it, chuck, if something similar had happened at a Bush inauguration, the performer also would have been thrown out. And it would have happened a lot faster. After all, Bush was the one who approved caged lots for protesters blocks away from where he would appear.
However, it is not shocking that Right Wingers on the whole are less intelligent. They’ve been rejecting science and logic in favor of faith and emotion for years.
Comment by scott — January 21, 2013 @ 12:41 pm
Less intelligent than what? Whatever; this would make liberal progressives unintelligent in comparison. This attitude seems to pervade
the liberal progressive cadre. . .like your messiah. . .you all appear to be narcissitic; along with a number of other undesirable traits. Your post does not lend to any discussion or debate; it only insults.
Funny to watch conservatives, many of whom fought MLK every step of the way, try to claim his legacy.
Ah, but, Frank, it’s also National Hugging Day. And yesterday, when Obama was officially sworn, was World Religion Day. Oh, and since you apparently aren’t aware of it, MLK Day wasn’t SELECTED to be on the 21st; it’s just on the third Monday of January each year.
Glad to help you out.
#22 Dr. King would be speaking out against those of the far right or the tea party. Violence was never apart of Dr. King’s message.
Pete Seeger has a great tune I think its called, Put down the Gun. He wrote it for Dr. King. He sang it to me while we were cutting firewood.
“Stupid is as stupid does.”
-Forrest Gump
Two Martin Luther King Jr. quotes that inform my life:
“All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking excellence.”
“The funcrion of education is to teach one to think intensively and critically. Intelligence plus character – that is the goal of true education.”
As for the attempts here to co-opt Dr. King’s teachings, I feel comfortable that Dr. King would have rebuked Mitt Romney and the Republican Party for the 47% strategy.
Leon, when Dr. King was assassinated, he was in Memphis to support UNION municipal workers who were on strike. Last time I checked, the GOP was not too friendly with unions.
Additionally, he opposed the Vietnam War, saying that the money the U. S. was spending on that war should go to social welfare programs. From Wikipedia: King began to speak of the need for fundamental changes in the political and economic life of the nation, and more frequently expressed his opposition to the war and his desire to see a redistribution of resources to correct racial and economic injustice.[127] He guarded his language in public to avoid being linked to communism by his enemies, but in private he sometimes spoke of his support for democratic socialism. In one speech, he stated that “something is wrong with capitalism” and claimed, “There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.”[128] King had read Marx while at Morehouse, but while he rejected “traditional capitalism”, he also rejected communism because of its “materialistic interpretation of history” that denied religion, its “ethical relativism”, and its “political totalitarianism”.[129]
I feel comfortable that Dr. King would have rebuked Mitt Romney and the Republican Party for the 47% strategy.
Comment by Jason Perdue — January 21, 2013 @ 2:35 pm
Absolutely!!
Leon says:
“This attitude seems to pervade
the liberal progressive cadre. . .like your messiah. . .you all appear to be narcissitic; along with a number of other undesirable traits. Your post does not lend to any discussion or debate; it only insults.”
Intelligent people don’t have a messiah. We leave the godly stuff to the sheep.
Thank you Leon for letting us know that MLK was actually a conservative Republican. It really helped clarify history. Previously, many conservative Republicans claimed that MLK was a communist. Evidently behind the conservative Republican party walls, communism = Republican. Since we all know Republicanism = America, Ronald Reagan wasn’t just trying to defeat communism, by the transitive property Reagan was trying to destroy America. I was going to give Reagan just a C for his efforts, but since conservative Republicans laud Reagan as the best president ever, they must think he deserves an A for destroying America.
Leon, Stalin is the father of the Tea Party, too.
“Dan,
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/01/martin-luther-kings-conservative-legacy
Martin Luther King endorsed conservative principles.”
–Comment by Leon
I have to confess I’m always amused when conservatives attempt to lay claim to MLK Jr.’s legacy. Because in his day, the conservatives DESPISED him. A bill to commemorate his birthday as a national holiday was introduced in Congress 4 days after his assassination. That was in 1968. For 15 years, conservatives in Congress managed to successfully derail it. In 1983, they finally lost, but they went down fighting.
A bit of history, from About.com:
“In 1970, [Rep. John] Conyers convinced New York’s governor and New York City’s mayor to commemorate King’s birthday, a move that the city of St. Louis emulated in 1971. Other localities followed, but it was not until the 1980s that Congress acted on Conyers’ bill. By this time, the congressman had enlisted the help of popular singer Stevie Wonder, who released the song “Happy Birthday” for King in 1981, and Conyers had organized marches in support of the holiday-in 1982 and 1983, respectively.
Conyers was finally successful when he reintroduced the bill in 1983. But even in 1983 support was not unanimous. In the House of Representatives, William Dannemeyer, a Republican from California, led the opposition to the bill, arguing that it was too expensive to create a federal holiday and estimating that it would cost the federal government $225 million annually in lost productivity. Reagan’s administration concurred with Dannemeyer’s arguments, but the House passed the bill with a vote of 338 for and 90 against.
When the bill reached the Senate, the arguments opposing the bill were less grounded in economics and more reliant on outright racism. Senator Jesse Helms, a Republican from North Carolina, held a filibuster against the bill and demanded the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) make public its files on King, asserting that King was a Communist who did not deserve the honor of a holiday. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) had investigated King throughout the late 1950s and 1960s at the behest of its chief, J. Edgar Hoover, and had even tried intimidation tactics against King, sending the civil rights leader a note in 1965 that suggested he kill himself to avoid embarrassing personal revelations hitting the media.
King, of course, was not a Communist and had broken no federal laws, but by challenging the status quo, King and the Civil Rights Movement discomfited the Washington establishment. Charges of Communism were a popular way to discredit people who dared speak truth to power during the 50s and 60s, and King’s opponents made liberal use of that tactic.
When Helms tried to revive that tactic, Reagan defended him. A reporter asked Reagan about the charge of Communist against King, and Reagan said that Americans would find out in around 35 years, referring to the length of time before any material the FBI gathers on a subject could be released. Reagan later apologized, and a federal judge blocked the release of King’s FBI files.
Conservatives in the Senate tried to change the name of the bill to “National Civil Rights Day” as well, but they failed to do so. The bill passed the Senate with a vote of 78 for and 22 against. Reagan capitulated, signing the bill into law.”
Now we have Leon come on here and claim MLK was a conservative Republican. That kind of stuff makes this place a laugh riot every day!
It reminds me of a quote I heard once from a famous clergyman and leader: “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” That was by Martin Luther King Jr.
I think he was talking about Leon!
hey justin true,
…seems like stalin gets around. i mean, who knew? father of the tea party, and an avowed athiest, believing that religion is an opiate…and must be removed from society. holy cow, what a guy!
sounds like a real kindred spirit, eh, justin? do you get your inspiration from stalin?
why, thank you gdud.
i new about the 3rd Monday thing, but not the rest. I mean, who woulda come up with a national squirrel day? must have been a lib.
King, of course, was not a Communist and had broken no federal laws, but by challenging the status quo, King and the Civil Rights Movement discomfited the Washington establishment. Charges of Communism were a popular way to discredit people who dared speak truth to power during the 50s and 60s, and King’s opponents made liberal use of that tactic.
Comment by Dan Casey
Interesting that in today’s political climate, as President Obama’s influence broadens, charges by the right wing that he is a Communist are pervasive.
Some 46 years after his death, Martin Luther King Jr. stands as one of the greatest Americans in our nation’s history,
regardless of his supposed political affiliation. Like it or not, his legacy continues to pave the way for tolerance.
Mark my words, (and this will be controversial) but there will one day be a federal holiday in honor of Barack Obama. I doubt it’ll happen in my lifetime, though, unless he suffers an untimely death.
Among other things, Barack Obama Day will recognize that the massive social upheaval that overturned the segregation of the 1950s and 1960s (and before) was at least in part successful. In that respect it’ll be further proof of MLK’s legacy.
Leon, and Suzie, and Chuck and some others on this board, if they are still alive then, will rail in disgust about Barack Obama Day. Just like others of similar bent railed against the very idea of an MLK Jr. day for more than a decade.
I hope I’m still around when Leon rails against Barack Obama Day, after having tried to claim MLK’s legacy right here on this blog. That’ll be rich as can be!
“do you get your inspiration from stalin?”
Moron alert.
Dan, What a great idea!
Leon, here’s a question for you. Please answer it:
What do you think political scientists mean when they use the term “party realignment”?
Obama Day: In the future, long after the collapse of the dollar and our economy all together, folks will have a day off to reflect on ancient policies of progressives and how they destroyed the world status of the US in the early-mid 2000′s. The Libertarian party in power will declare Obama Day a day off to encourage awareness of the problems that occured when the central government doesn’t balance budgets and becomes involved in every aspect of our life. Interestingly enough, most of the folks in the US, proud of our newly regained status of world leader, will choose to go to work instead.
Dan, I thought you were going to trash posts when the poster didn’t use another poster’s blog name? Aren’t “gdud” and “suzie-q” and the like against the rules?
(See, I tried to be non-partisan there)
Speaking of Dr. King, today was the day when those who venerate the instrument of Dr. King’s murder converged on the Va. General Assembly to show support for even more gun saturation in our culture. There’ll likely be some VCDL gunner coming on here to post about it; if so, see if-as can be expected-their report couples a tea partier’s tunnel vison with troll Suzie’s glowing tone after a womb control rally.
Happy Blue Monday everybody.
#45 Uh oh, Frank/applewood, suzie will be here any minute to slap your hand and pout about not using my name correctly. 5, 4, 3, ….
Aw shucks, I forgot. suzie doesn’t EVER criticize right-wing trolls.
Frunk, I was being facetious you idiot.
hey dobbs,
Ol’ dano doesn’t follow his own rules, so why should he expect other folks to?
Check out the hateful post by Hillary (prays that republicans rot in hell), and JM’s tirade directed at another poster, for which he did man-up and apologize after getting smacked by another poster. My point is, ol’ dano allows his lib-minions to do as they please, ’cause he allows their posts. period.
hey, gdu, oops, gdad,
Go cry me a river somewhere where lib-trolls congregate. oh! that’s here, isn’t it? so, go cry me a river.
oh! wait! hey gdad, have you criticized ol’ dano for not using conservative posters’ blog names?
hey Justin True,
whenever I see an atheist mention stalin, or lenin, for that matter, I assume it’s at least in a somewhat favorable light.
A grown man is blubbering all over a thread about things being so unfair while telling others to “go cry me a river”. That’s hilarious. I guess he’s trying to get gdad to split the bill for the wahmbulance.
What’s next? An exaggerated “I HATE this place!” followed by a giant melodramatic sigh?
————–
Since you decided to bring me up in your whinge du jour, Frank: I believe Dan allowed my post because he knew that as soon as I realized how I had acted, I’d be back to apologize. It’s part of being a man, Frank. We all spout lunacy from time to time. The thing that separates the wheat from the chaff is the ability to man up, swallow your pride and admit when you’re wrong. Which one are you?
I acted like a jackass for no reason other than me letting Dan’s chosen title bias the way I read the post, and so I humbled myself and asked for forgiveness. It’s the way things are supposed to be, Frank. Mr. Howard, Mr. Gresham and I used it as a learning experience and showed that things don’t have to spiral out of control if we can just act like adults. You should try it sometime.
#58 I just guessing your not a Christian with an attitude that you have shown.
Dr. King’s message was all about love. Not to be sappy or anything but real love that makes one take steps that are not always popular. Takes steps that might put your life in danger but they went. Back then many lives were lost in not only getting rid of segration but showing many how powerful Gandhi’s path is.
Remember Gandhi had one of the most powerful country leave his India without guns.
Hey Frank, I was slapping down suzie for her blatant hypocrisy. But you’re obviously too dense to see that.
Barack Obama Day
Yeah, for awhile, maybe. Just like Stalingrad. But they’ll ultimately pull down his statue too.
Justin True, #4 was a great quote.
MLK wouldn’t recognize his own crazy far-left offspring.
hey J.M.,
My mention of your post was simply to call attention to the type of post which dan permits on his blog. Nothing more, nothing less. And, I did make reference to your apology to D. Howard.
By the way, J.M. I love this place. I look forward to my time here, with you folks. You all add spice to my day, along with some knowledge, and I try my best…within the rules…to return same.
hey dgag,
I think it would be a good idea to stop talking like you take pleasure slapping women.
Mitt Romney, sore loser.
The anti-gun crowd would do well to take note. Yost gets it.
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/319315
So what you are saying, Frank, is that every time a Catholic mentions Hitler it is in a good light, right?
I hope I’m still around when Leon rails against Barack Obama Day, after having tried to claim MLK’s legacy right here on this blog. That’ll be rich as can be!
Comment by Dan Casey — January 21, 2013 @ 4:09 pm
Comparison of Obama to King is not appropriate. King had principles; Obama has none. Besides; the only holidays Obama celebrates are taxpayer funded vacations.
The anti-gun crowd would do well to take note. Yost gets it.
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/319315
Comment by Chuck — January 22, 2013 @ 6:08 am
Agreed. Problem is the mental health issue affects the entire group of liberal progressives. They worship an ineligible president whose only
strong trait is the ability to lie.
Del. Yost may get some of it, there is a problem with mental health; but he fails to get the obvious, if you make it harder to get weapons of mass destruction, you have limited the severity of the attacks. The NRA supporters keep trying to muck up the discussion by spouting all the times guns have saved lives and prevented crimes, yet I have seen no articles, quotes, or evidence where an assault rifle with a large clip has prevented anything and has only caused mayhem. The restrictions proposed by Biden on these two items are reasonable. The universal background checks help keep the mentally unstable from weapons, it is reasonable. The NRA and its supporters simply are not being reasonable.
As for mental health, I was told by a psychiatrist in the late 80s that when the insurance industry cut back on psychiatric coverages and all the mental health hospitals closed, you would see the results on the streets of America. The medical profession chose to treat mental health with drugs only. You see the result everyday with the violence, the over prescribed pain and depression drugs, the prescription drug as the drug of choice by addicts. The drug companies and the medical industry created this problem by taking the course of prescribing a pill rather than treating the illness. We have to change and restrict until we corrrect the problem.
There is no way in hell that every or even most deaths by gun have anything to do with “mental illness”. There are some mean, immoral, selfish, angry and self-centered people, well armed, who more than believe they can just shoot people because they want to.
Zimmerman created the situation where by he shot Trayvon Martin. That guy at the gas station created the situation where by he shot the kid in the car with loud music. When the shooter then takes their own life, or dies in a “shootout” it is arm chair psychiatrists who say they were “mentally ill” because there is no way to determine that.
This will no doubt turn into open season on the mentally ill but make no mistake, it is BS to pretend that all gun use in crime, mass shootings or inner city violence is about or mostly about “mental illness”.
74. Sandy, there is not an “all” to anything. The NRA wants us to believe “all” so that they can confuse and muck up the discussion. Biden is not trying to prevent all gun violence simply because it is not possible. He is trying to prevent what can be prevented and slow down what cannot.
We can’t prevent all drug use, so let’s get rid of all of our drug laws.
We can’t prevent all stupid driving, so let’s just get rid of all of our driving laws.
We can’t prevent all theft, so why bother criminalizing theft. Let’s get rid of all of our laws regarding property.
It sounds stupid because it is stupid. And experts estimate that mental illness is a factor in maybe 5% of gun violence events.
#75…Mr. Beason.. You and the left are very naive. Sheeple, if you will. Once and for all, the Obamas, Bidens, Cuomos of the world want ALL….ALL guns taken away from the public. Its the ONLY way they will ever be able to control us and reach the pinnacle of power that they SOOOO desire. They anguish in the fact that they`ll never be able to reach that goal, but they continue to `nudge`…and they USE pawns such as yourself to advance their causes. You`ve been had… Bad.
“#75…Mr. Beason.. You and the left are very naive. Sheeple, if you will. Once and for all, the Obamas, Bidens, Cuomos of the world want ALL….ALL guns taken away from the public. Its the ONLY way they will ever be able to control us and reach the pinnacle of power that they SOOOO desire. They anguish in the fact that they`ll never be able to reach that goal, but they continue to `nudge`…and they USE pawns such as yourself to advance their causes. You`ve been had… Bad.”
–Comment by applewood
The advent of the income tax indicated politicians wanted ALL the public’s money taken away from them.
Vehicle registration laws were a sign politicians wanted to seize ALL the public’s cars, and one day this will happen — you just wait!
Wastewater treatment systems? They’re a plot, under the color of the commie lib notion of clean water, to seize all your s—!
“Sheeple, if you will.”
Stale, stupid cliches, if you will. Followed by rampant, baseless paranoia.
Applewood is proving that life in the bubble is not an easy existence. He is not paranoid, they are out to get us all…. What a sad way to live and think. What fool can possibly believe that guns keep us “free”?
Ah, Leon is a birther. All is explained.
#67 I know this is probably futile because I’m sure you’ll never actually understand it, Frank, but there’s a difference between figuratively slapping a person down and doing so physically.
Now where is blog hall monitor suzie? She ALWAYS whines when a liberal uses the wrong name. Why isn’t she here taking care of your transgressions?
77. applewood – you continue to prove my discertation. Obama and Biden are at the peak of power and became such under our free elections. Your fringe mentality of all the world against you is absurd. Your argguments would be much more effective with logic and thought rather than insults and banalities copied from a right wing web. No one wants to take anything from you or control you, they simply want live in peace and quiet. Keep your guns to yourself and no one cares, start shooting up the neighborhood and we sheep get upset.
Biden’s appraich to gun restriction has not affected the Johns and Jacks of this blog at all. They flatly state that they will continue to buy weapons, train, carry, and shoot. That is the point, even the North Vietnamese could not stop Rambo. Biden is not attempting to. He wants to make it harder for the teenager and young man that is angry and untrained that needs a weapon that shoots a hundred rounds from easily obtaining such weapon. To slow them down so that hopefully they will cool off, get help, give up becausee the effort is too much.
We have Swat Teams to handle a beserk John which is good considering the arsenal he deems needed. But, that comes after the fact. We can stop those that are not well trained in weaponry, violence, and mayhem. We can slow down the mom who does not know to secure her weapons by making it a little harder to buy them on a whim and as a toy. That is the point.
applewood in his infinite genius is unaware that in 4 years Obama and Biden will be out of office and in no position to exert blah blah blah anyway.
77. applewood – in reading your comment, you indivate you want your guns to control the government. Perhaps, you should re-read the Constitution, you are not allowed guns to stop the government, but rather to protect the government. Your premise is about treason, not liberty.
The NRA does not support treason and such off the wall remarks are of the fringe element that is killing the Republican Party and the gun lobby.
yeah yeah yeah, dgag.
you libs lost your, ah, “figuratively” …ages ago…and more recently when you demagogued Sarah Palin’s use of “bulls eye” to reflect a “targeted” voting district.
Hypocrite.
Applewood, a question for you:
Do you believe that Obama will leave the White House after his 2nd term? Or are you one of the folks who believe he’s going to engineer a change in the Constitution to allow him to serve a third term?
I said absolutely not a word about Palin’s use of “bulls eye,” Frankie. It’s fun to watch your desperation, though.
@Applewood: “#75…Mr. Beason.. You and the left are very naive. Sheeple, if you will. Once and for all, the Obamas, Bidens, Cuomos of the world want ALL….ALL guns taken away from the public. Its the ONLY way they will ever be able to control us and reach the pinnacle of power that they SOOOO desire. They anguish in the fact that they`ll never be able to reach that goal, but they continue to `nudge`…and they USE pawns such as yourself to advance their causes. You`ve been had… Bad.”
Actually, people like Applewood who believe the propaganda put out by the NRA and others on the right are the ones who have been had.
Take this fundraising letter from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s campaign. In it, his campaign manager says:
The gun-grabbers are in full battle mode. And they are serious.
What’s at stake?
There are almost too many schemes to list. But President Obama’s worst center around:
-The Feinstein Gun Ban, which will criminalize firearms by how they look.
-A thinly-veiled national gun registration scheme hidden under the guise of “background checks” to ensure federal government minders gain every bureaucratic tool they need for full-scale confiscation.
-An outright BAN on magazines holding more than 10 rounds.
-And that’s not even close to the end of it.
23 new Executive Orders.
It is almost hard to believe the sheer breadth and brazenness of this attempt to gut our Constitution.
That is, almost in its entirety, sheer nonsense. Nothing in the legislation proposed by President Obama would confiscate a single gun. The “gun registration scheme” is actually an improved national background check that enjoys broad public and bipartisan support. And the executive orders weren’t even all executive orders (most were executive “actions” like nominating a director of the ATF).
Mitch McConnell knows that letter was nonsense, but he also knows it will scare the crap out of people like Applewood, convincing them to pony up campaign cash to help re-elect McConnell. Wayne LaPierre, vice president of the NRA, may be nuts enough to believe his own unhinged rhetoric, but I think most at the NRA know it’s all crap, but they know it will scare people like Applewood and convince them to both join the NRA and send it money AND buy more guns, benefitting the gun makers who give the NRA millions of dollars.
Who’s been had? It’s not the majority of Americans who support reasonable gun control measures that might help stop the next Newtown, the next Aurora, the next Tucson, the next Virginia Tech, the next …
The Sheeple are those who have not developed critical thinking skills for themselves. They tend to watch hysterical and emotional programs like faux news and react to fear mongering put out by the likes of the NRA and other fronts for major industries who gain when the sheeple stampede walmart to buy up guys and ammo in fear.
Adults who can really think for themselves just want to be able to send their kids to the store, school or movies, just out in public without the real fear of being murdered.
Dan, how long is Frank’s childish obsession with Gdad’s name going to be allowed to go on?
Leon, I asked you a simple question yesterday (#50). Please answer it:
What do you think political scientists mean when they use the term “party realignment”?
Who’s been had? It’s not the majority of Americans who support reasonable gun control measures that might help stop the next Newtown, the next Aurora, the next Tucson, the next Virginia Tech, the next …
Comment by Dan Radmacher — January 22, 2013 @ 12:13 pm
Radmacher, why do you fail to realize that not one of the proposals put forth by the Obama unadministration will do one thing to prevent another such tragedy. Newtown is simply being used a political staging to further a gun control policy. Guns were not, are not and will not be the problem or issue.
Guns were not, are not and will not be the problem or issue.
Comment by Leon — January 22, 2013 @ 2:10 pm
Sure they are…people with guns kill people. Why shouldn’t we do all that we can to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them…like Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, Jared Loughner,and James Holmes. Further, limiting clips to 10 rounds at least gives someone the opportunity to react while the shooter reloads. It may not prevent the shooting, but it would limit the number of people killed. People can still protect themselves with a 10 round clip.
There is no proposal to take all your guns. Wake up and stop using your narrow and misguided interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to inhibit reasonable gun control.
94. Leon – There are a whole lot of people who disagree with your opinion. Howeverm if you would prefer the Administration support more stringent rules that will be more effective, I am sure everyone will listen.
” how long is Frank’s childish obsession with Gdad’s name going to be allowed to go on?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 22, 2013 @ 12:39 pm”
probably as long as your obsession with barry soetoro
“Sure they are…people with guns kill people. Why shouldn’t we do all that we can to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them…like Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, Jared Loughner,and James Holmes. Further, limiting clips to 10 rounds at least gives someone the opportunity to react while the shooter reloads. It may not prevent the shooting, but it would limit the number of people killed. People can still protect themselves with a 10 round clip.
There is no proposal to take all your guns. Wake up and stop using your narrow and misguided interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to inhibit reasonable gun control.”
–Comment by Lori
I truly wonder if there is ANY limit, in terms of # of rounds in a magazine, that the pro-gun crowd would be willing to accept. Would they accept a ban on magazines that hold 100 or more rounds?
The other thing that could be done, short of a ban, is to put magazines with certain capacities (it could be 11 & up, 30 & up, whatever) in the same category as automatic weapons. Those are not banned, but they are much more difficult to get. There’s a federal tax, and a federal investigation.
I’d rather allow a 100 round magazine. It would be too heavy to conceal and use. You would have to mount it on something.
“people with guns kill people. ”
Is that why police carry guns? So they can kill us?
hey Leon,
radmacher can’t help himself. he is programmed for one-sided thinking. he deserves pity.
hey gbad,
did you condemn your brethren when they squeeled like excited little piggies about Palin’s remarks about “targeting” districts?
hey applewood, Leon, and Pammala,
Great posts!
Obama’s speech was great and centered on individual rights for all people. It was great.
But one should listen to the speech again, then consider the 3000 deaths everyday in this country to those HUMANS in the womb.
Obama said. “we must take up for the most vulnerable”
I consider the most vulnerable and dangerous place in America to be the Mother’s womb.
Right to choose…. Did you know that using that argument, women should be allowed to be prostitutes. It should be legal in all 50 states because they are choosing to do whatever they want to their bodies.
Women’s rights are great…what about UNBORN women’s rights.
Today we remember Roe vs. Wade. The day that certain women were given the right to legally murder.
I agree with you about prostitution, pp. A victimless crime. Its criminalization is an artifact of our puritan roots and way outdated.
103 pistol pete – You should thank Obama for pushing contraception in the Health Care Act. Hopefully there will be many less abortions as a result.
Says Frank as he squalls for attention.
pistol pete, everyone is relative. No, I’m not saying everything is relative, I’m saying everyONE is relative. Henrietta Lacks was around during your younger days, and although she “died” decades ago, her stem cells live on. Going back, Henrietta and you are relatives. So, if your opinion about life issues is to have any persuasive validity, you’ll have to go beyond anti-choice demagoguery and consider a whole range of complex questions.
Start with this one: when do you believe death begins, and when does it end?
@90 “Who’s been had? It’s not the majority of Americans who support reasonable gun control measures that might help stop the next Newtown, the next Aurora, the next Tucson, the next Virginia Tech, the next …”
That would be:
“At least two students were shot at Lone Star College on its Houston-area campus in Texas on Tuesday, a school official said.”
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/shooting-texas-college-campus-reports-191439016.html
America has become one big killing field.
Leon, how is it you think you know what will and will not “prevent another such tragedy”?
You say “Newtown is simply being used a political staging to further a gun control policy”, kinda like the debt ceiling is being used as a political stage to further cut the safety net programs you folks hate so much. And right wing legislatures are being used to deny women the right to decide their own reproductive choice? Kinda like that?
“It should be legal in all 50 states…”
Works for me…
Is that why police carry guns? So they can kill us?
Comment by Henry — January 22, 2013 @ 2:58 pm
Police at least have had a psych eval and weapons training before being allowed to carry their service weapons. More than we can say for the general population.
Frank, can you honestly say Palin has been a good role model for the GOP?
pistol pete:
“I consider the most vulnerable and dangerous place in America to be the Mother’s womb.
Right to choose…. Did you know that using that argument, women should be allowed to be prostitutes. It should be legal in all 50 states because they are choosing to do whatever they want to their bodies.
Women’s rights are great…what about UNBORN women’s rights.
Today we remember Roe vs. Wade. The day that certain women were given the right to legally murder.”
I agree with pistol pete. Prostitution should be legal (even though I doubt that was what he meant). to the original point, debating abortion is not my thing, but for emotional reasons, I am pro life. However, I don’t think we can legislate the problem away and don’t agree with the crazy fundie measures to try to do so. I think those people control measures are similar to prohibition on alcohol and drugs.
Cold n P:
“America has become one big killing field.”
Why don’t you ask the president to allocate some more of our money to put up additional gun free zone signs? These things almost always happen in gun free zones, so it must be a lack of signage.
Kristen:
“I agree with you about prostitution, pp. A victimless crime. Its criminalization is an artifact of our puritan roots and way outdated.”
Wow, Kristen and I agree on something! A rare, but welcome occurrence.
Did you know that using that argument, women should be allowed to be prostitutes. It should be legal in all 50 states because they are choosing to do whatever they want to their bodies.
Comment by pistol pete — January 22, 2013 @ 3:11 pm
I’m ok with that.
hey colden p,
Please go back and read the post which you are alluding to, then you can rephrase the question.
I’m with you, John Wilburn.
We need more “gun-free zone” signs!
“f you are against more “gun-free zone” signs, you are against saving little kiddies, and are a dispicable republican.”
Hey, did I sound just like a lib?
JW, Nice attitude you have today. While the body count rises.
No thank you Frank. I not having discussions with rocks today.
Don’t kid yourself Sandi. Newton is being used as political capital to promote the liberals long desired anti-gun agenda that met with an icy reception prior to the shooting.
As I noted before, Yost nailed it. You guys have zoned in exclusively on gun control to the exclusion of all else. You are completely unwilling to even consider a comprehensive approach because you don’t want anything to compete with the anti-gun movement.
Dan, here’s one “pro-gun nut” who thinks reasonable controls and restrictions are needed. However, the sweeping cosmetic gestures of the past won’t change things and often don’t make sense. Personally, I’m okay treating military style assault weapons as Class III weapons. However, I’m not okay with stupid, fear driven limits that do nothing other outlaw scores of legitimate sporting arms. You want a mag limit. Okay. Limit the capacity of rifle mags. But there is little sense in restricting the mag capacity of a 12 shot pistol mag to 10 shots. Only people who know nothing about guns or shooting think this will “limit the carnage”. I’ve got a news flash for some of you. Cho reloaded several times. Didn’t seem to slow him down much though.
Again, I’m okay with restrictions that are reasonable and informed. However, I also don’t want to see gun control be the only issue addressed. I don’t want to see uninformed liberals patting themselves on the back for “taking action” when gun control measures enacted today, no matter how effective, will take years to show any real result. You guys act like a new gun law will be the most effective immediate solution when nothing could be farther from the truth. Wake up and secure our schools people. That’s the first step. A freakin’ Wal-Mart is more secure than our schools are, for Christ’s sake!
109.Leon, how is it you think you know what will and will not “prevent another such tragedy”?
You say “Newtown is simply being used a political staging to further a gun control policy”, kinda like the debt ceiling is being used as a political stage to further cut the safety net programs you folks hate so much. And right wing legislatures are being used to deny women the right to decide their own reproductive choice? Kinda like that?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 22, 2013 @ 3:45 pm
Sandi,
To the first question…YES…Fast & Furious is another example of this administration trying to undermine the 2nd amendment as is Newtown. It is
clear this administration’s agenda is to disarm the American people.
As to the debt ceiling…anyone with any sense realizes spending cuts must be made. This administration refuses to address the issue as well as
refuses to put a budget on the table. This inaction is wrong.
As to the reproductive rights of women I do believe are other parties involved in this process you allude to whose rights (to life) should also be considered.
Now some questions for you, your highness,
1) Why do you think this administration wants to disarm the American citizenery? They are unconcerned with the murder of innocents as clearly demonstrated by their actions in Fast & Furious which has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexican citizens.
2) Do you regularly spend more than you take in each and every month and, if so, what is your plan when the credit runs out? Food Stamps?
Obamaphone?
3) Do you believe babies should be killed? Would you willingly participate?
Let’s see how you do with questions since you appear to assume to have the right to ask them; turnabout is fair play.
3)
Leon,
This administration has already implemented more than $2 trillion in cuts. Obama has put a budget on the table every year he’s been in office.
Do you have anything to say that’s, I don’t know, actually factually correct?
This administration has already implemented more than $2 trillion in cuts.
Cuts to the military, more than offset by deficit-busting spending.
Do you liberals mislead and lie intentionally? Or is just a reflex?
122.Leon,
This administration has already implemented more than $2 trillion in cuts. Obama has put a budget on the table every year he’s been in office.
Do you have anything to say that’s, I don’t know, actually factually correct?
Comment by Dan Radmacher — January 22, 2013 @ 10:17 pm
Radmacher you could not be more wrong. The Obama administration has never had a budget passed. The last one submitted could not even get a
single Democrat vote. It’s a joke. . .on the American taxpayers.
Here’s how bad it really is. . .from a source you love and that Casey will drool over. . .the GAO cannot now audit the Federal Government. LOL!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/gao-audit-federal-government-defense_n_2507097.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
Radmacher. . .keep toking the wacky stuff.
There is no proposal to take all your guns. Wake up and stop using your narrow and misguided interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to inhibit reasonable gun control.
Comment by Lori — January 22, 2013 @ 2:40 pm
What part of “shall not be infringed” is narrow and misguided? I am not so foolish, or naive, to think that once they start taking guns that they will stop. BTW; people kill people. Guns are simply tools. What has this administration done that causes you to trust them? Why are you so
naive?
93.Leon, I asked you a simple question yesterday (#50). Please answer it:
What do you think political scientists mean when they use the term “party realignment”?
Comment by Warren — January 22, 2013 @ 2:03 pm
IMO, you should be old enough; but not nessarily smart enough, for your wants not to hurt you.
86.77. applewood – in reading your comment, you indivate you want your guns to control the government. Perhaps, you should re-read the Constitution, you are not allowed guns to stop the government, but rather to protect the government. Your premise is about treason, not liberty.
The NRA does not support treason and such off the wall remarks are of the fringe element that is killing the Republican Party and the gun lobby.
Comment by Richard J Beason — January 22, 2013 @ 10:44 am
As usual Beason you post without any real knowledge of what you are posting about; you echoe what other liberal progressives spin.
The 2nd amendment specifically provides that the people’s right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. . .to guarantee a well-regulated militia. Militia, in the context of the founder’s represented an organized army commanded by the state or Federal government. . .therefore,
to keep such well regulated the people have the right to be armed.
You sir, are wrong. BTW, how can it be treason to support the 2nd amendment to the contitution? I can see how taking an oath of office to protect and uphold the constitution and then taking numerous actions to undermine the constitution would be treason. . .what’s actually happening with this administration is quite clear.
This will no doubt turn into open season on the mentally ill but make no mistake, it is BS to pretend that all gun use in crime, mass shootings or inner city violence is about or mostly about “mental illness”.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 22, 2013 @ 9:23 am
Believe the rest of the violence can be attributed to greed and the zeal for power. . .the three pillars of this administration. . .mental illness,
greed and the zeal for power. What a great group of guys (they exclude women too)!
Lori:
“There is no proposal to take all your guns. Wake up and stop using your narrow and misguided interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to inhibit reasonable gun control.”
Lori, sadly, this is not the case. Here is a selection from US Senator’s Dianne Feinstein’s wikipedia page:
“February 5, 1995, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ‘em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren’t here.”[26]
In July 2006, Feinstein voted against the Vitter Amendment to prohibit Federal funds being used for the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during a disaster.”
In addition to being an elitist tyrant, she’s also a total hypocrite:
“Feinstein possessed a concealed handgun permit in the early 70′s “And, I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. I’d walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me.”—27 April 1995″
She and others like her in government would absolutely erase the Second Amendment if they could.
Leon: “Radmacher you could not be more wrong. The Obama administration has never had a budget passed. The last one submitted could not even get a
single Democrat vote. It’s a joke. . .on the American taxpayers.”
Obama has proposed a budget every year. The “budget” that didn’t get a single Democratic vote was not Obama’s bill, it was put together, poorly, by Republicans, to represent Obama’s budget – solely to give people like you a stupid, misinformed talking point to spout in places like this.
As to the lie someone else told on here claiming that Obama has only cut military spending and that spending has been more than offset by other spending, that is, simply a bald-faced lie. Under Obama, federal spending has actually leveled out. Compare spending since Obama to the increase under Bush, and it’s no contest. Bush, not Obama, was the big spender.
For some reason the link I embedded didn’t work. Try this one, instead.
Chuck, you say you “don’t want to see uninformed liberals patting themselves on the back for “taking action”, why not? It is all we ever see the uninformed and agenda driven right wing do. Why should we be held to a higher standard?
Yes, “gun control measures enacted today, no matter how effective, will take years to show any real result”. THAT is the reason for the push and the sense of urgency. We, as individuals here do not create legislation and we do not know what form any controls will take, but it is a flat out lie to claim that gun control is our only action, our only plan or our only concern. That one dimensional “outlaw abortion” mantra is not the one we carry. You are claiming we are acting “like a new gun law will be the most effective immediate solution” but that is not at all what we are acting like, it is just how the whiny, don’t tread on me gun lovers portray it.
It is absolutely not true that “A freakin’ Wal-Mart is more secure than our schools are” and we have BEEN working on securing schools, in every state, in every community, that is being done. You all just want to pretend that is not the case.
Leon, you are always so willing to prove why you are wrong. I have to appreciate that.
For those paying attention to facts and not the FOX SPIN, Fast & Furious is another example of the NRA power hampering the BATFE in fighting gun trafficking not at all “this administration trying to undermine the 2nd amendment”. That is malarkey.
There is no “agenda is to disarm the American people”. Not with “this administration” or any other. That is a fool’s errand because the decision to leave people their guns was made long ago. It is your liberty, privacy and freedom that have been taken, but by God, you held on to your guns so you remain happy and clueless.
You do not have the information or intelligence to argue over the “debt ceiling” but the United States of America has to pay the debts it incurs. Whether you or Congress agree with them is not relevant. If we get the revenue up to historic standards, we will be fine. We literally do not have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem. 18% of GDP is the historical norm, we cannot maintain this nation at 15-16%.
Regardless of the FOX SPIN, spending cuts have been made, but we must increase revenue too. You are flat out wrong that “This administration refuses to address the issue” you are just not telling the truth. A budget on the table that will not be passed is just more wasted time. It means nothing more than an example of the dysfunction of Congress.
You seriously have no standing to discuss “reproductive rights of women”. Whatever consideration you want to give any fetus is your problem. Roe V Wade has been the “law of the land” for 40 years now and it is not your call.
I do not answer questions, your lowness. Especially the cartoon variety you pose.
Sandi…last I heard, you were searching for a place to go to get AWAY from `rightwingedness`…I offered up 3 options: Cuba, Venezuela and China. It appears you`ve thought it over and have decided to stay. Good choice. Our GUNS gave us this freedom…love it, embrace it, for when its gone, we WIll be Cuba, Venezuela, and China.
Your reading comprehension is not my problem, applewood.
BTW, your guns give you the illusion of freedom. Freedom sailed a long time ago and they knew exactly how to make you not notice.
Freedom is alive and well. Freedom is in the heart, not the mind. And, I can`t even begin to imagine who you may have conjured up in your mind to be `THEY`. Maybe its the Democratic party…YOU, my dear, are obviously their slave. And you are correct…They knew exactly how to make YOU not notice.
“It is absolutely not true that “A freakin’ Wal-Mart is more secure than our schools are” and we have BEEN working on securing schools, in every state, in every community, that is being done. You all just want to pretend that is not the case.”
Well Sandi, here again, whether it be willful ignorance or just more uninformed opinion, you are wrong. Wal-Mart has store security to protect what it deems valuable. Many schools don’t have SROs nor do the “informed” want it because as you note, more guns isn’t the answer. Remember, guns are scary and school resource officers would just add to the mayhem right?
Wal-Mart restricts customer’s access to the building to a few public entrances. Schools in my district won’t lock the back door. Hell, some of them won’t even close it because it would be “inconvenient.”
Wal-Mart has a greeter who watches who comes and goes. Schools can’t be bothered with this. After all, what good would it do. An unarmed staffer wouldn’t be able to stop a gunman. Just like the two or three sentries at a military base wouldn’t be able to stop an armed enemy force. Of course the informed realize that the sentry’s job is to observe and report, to give warning of problems. But no, no need for that in schools.
Wal-Mart has surveillance cameras on the interior of the building as well as the parking lot. Schools resist this because it would be an “invasion of privacy”.
Instead, schools enact bizarre and inane “zero-tolerance” policies against weapons to divest themselves of such dire threats as kindergartners with bubble guns.
Yes, from meaningful policies such as this, it is clear that “we have BEEN working on securing schools”. From these ineffective policies and inane decisions, it is also abundantly clear who “we” is.
“Our GUNS gave us this freedom…”
Now THAT is truly silly.
126. Leon, what do you think political scientists mean when they use the term “party realignment”?
Comment by Warren
IMO, you should be old enough; but not nessarily(sic) smart enough, for your wants not to hurt you.
Answer(?) from Leon
What The Heck, Leon?
What does that comment even mean, much less have to do with the question? I just want to see if you’re equipped to knowledgeably discuss the American polity. Please try again, directly giving your definition of “party realignment”, because like many “conservatives” you’ve made comments that indicate you don’t know what it means. A non-response will be an admission you don’t know.
Chuck, Wal-Mart has also been known to lock it’s own (below living wage) employees in the store while they work. Is that North Korean approach the sort of environment that you think most conducive to educating America’s children?
applewood, are you sure you’re spending enough on guns to defend yourself against the tyrannical government? I’d recommend you at least triple your expenditures on guns, ammo, canned food, fuel and reinforcing a remote bunker, then wait until the government shows up to try taking your guns (that is, your freedom). It’s the only way you’ll be safe and free from the awful tyranny that oppresses freedom loving patriots like you, applewood. Be a true patriot, applewood-get busy!!!
She and others like her in government would absolutely erase the Second Amendment if they could.
Comment by John Wilburn — January 22, 2013 @ 11:49 pm
John, is there a CURRENT proposal to abolish the 2nd Amendment? To take ALL the guns out of the hands of the citizens?
Just because one Senator wants it doesn’t mean it will happen. Hell, Ron Paul wants to abolish the 17th Amendment and the Fed; doesn’t mean it will happen.
Leon, what part of “well-regulated” do you not understand?
127. Leon – Perhaps you neen to re-read applewoods comments. He seems tp believe weapons are needed for [rotection from the govern,ent. That was disproven by George Washington when he put out the Whiskey Rebellion.
applewood, is your first name John and does your last name start with an S. You sound like someone I know, who has yet to meet a crackpot theory he doesn’t believe.
“Applewood, is your first name John and does your last name start with an S. You sound like someone I know, who has yet to meet a crackpot theory he doesn’t believe.”
–Comment by Debbie
More on the RWer lie brigade is coming up in Friday’s guest post!
misinformed talking point
Somebody should inform that talking point.
Warren, that is exactly the type of melodramatic rhetoric I’ve come to expect here. Do you lock your doors at night? If you do, are you turning your home into North Korea and the people inside into prisoners?
It’s not like I’m suggesting locking school kids inside until they learn their multiplication tables. Furthermore, you know that, but because you don’t have a good argument about why schools shouldn’t try to be more secure, you resort to straw man arguments. Since you like questions though, allow me to pose one. Do you think a school with doors propped open and no one monitoring who comes goes so ANYONE can just waltz right in, for whatever purpose they want is the sort of environment that is the most conducive to educating America’s children?
Chuck believes he knows how insecure his local schools are, no doubt. But I wonder how accurate that assessment is
While your throwing those straw men around, how does this revelation play into the argument that we must ban assault rifles in order to secure the schools?
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
Lori:
“John, is there a CURRENT proposal to abolish the 2nd Amendment? To take ALL the guns out of the hands of the citizens?”
Lori, if they thought they could get the votes, there are a lot of legislators who would GUT our Second Amendment if not repeal it in its entirety. Feinstein just slipped up and admitted it. Several Democrats in New York wanted outright confiscations:
http://www.examiner.com/article/ny-democrat-begs-republican-to-keep-gun-confiscation-proposal-from-public
“Leon, what part of “well-regulated” do you not understand?”
Lori, what part of “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” do you not understand?
Maybe that would make a good investigation for a good old fashioned newspaper reporter Dan. Instead of wondering and assuming everything is okay with the schools, maybe someone should look in to it.
Chuck, are you willing to admit that you introduced the Wal-Mart analogy? You did, four times (11:56am). I merely added one more facet to the several ways you used it. Now, in reactionary fashion, you’re going right to a hypothetical absolute, which is not where the answers are. When one locks one’s own doors, one can still leave at will. If you recall the Wal-Mart story, they did not allow the employees to do so. You must not have recalled it, given how it highlights the poor choice of Wal-Mart as an analogy to schools.
There’s no “argument” about making schools secure, despite your need to claim that there is (9:27pm, “you don’t have a good argument about why schools shouldn’t try to be more secure”). Everyone wants secure schools, and only you have claimed that “Schools in my district won’t lock the back door. Hell, some of them won’t even close it”. With some specifics we can judge if that’s true, otherwise, it just stands as an unbacked assertion.
So, if we’re judging “melodramatic rhetoric”, let’s get together and name the poster who wrote: “Do you think a school with doors propped open and no one monitoring who comes goes so ANYONE can just waltz right in, for whatever purpose they want…”. (Hint: it starts with C-H-U…)
The mirror is your friend, unless it hurts too much to look.
“Maybe that would make a good investigation for a good old fashioned newspaper reporter Dan. Instead of wondering and assuming everything is okay with the schools, maybe someone should look in to it.”
–Comment by Chuck
And how would that work, Chuck? You haven’t specified the school you say you know leaves its back door open. You haven’t specified what you mean by “leaves its back door open” (Do you mean unlocked? Do you mean they prop it open with a cinder block? Do you mean they had the doors removed? All of those are possibilities). You haven’t specified whether it’s an elementary school, middle school or high school. Or what locality it’s in. And to top it all off, you’re an anonymous blog entity named “Chuck.”
Perhaps you think I should visit every school in Virginia, and check the back doors? All in the name of YOUR silly concept of “good old fashioned newspaper” reporting. That’s hilarious. I got news for you Chuck. That’s not how it works.
More often than not, when some anonymous person calls me to drop a dime on somebody or some thing, but they don’t tell me who are what they’re complaint is about, but that “You’re the reporter, that’s for YOU to figure out!” I politely end the conversation and tell them to have a nice day. And then I hang up.
Have a nice day, Chuck!
“if they thought they could get the votes”
Comment by John Wilburn — January 23, 2013 @ 9:52 pm
And they know they can’t. They know that while Americans may be ok with an assault weapons ban, or prohibiting the mentally ill from possessing weapons is ok, they will NEVER be ok with prohibition of all firearms. As I stated before, just because one (2?) lawmakers in Washington want it to happen, doesn’t mean it will (see my Ron Paul reference). Do you think that the American people are so lazy as to allow the repeal of the 2nd Amendment?
If you believe the 2nd Amendment allows you to carry arms for the purposes of having a militia, are you also entitled to all weaponry of a modern military? At what point does your right to be a “militia” end?
Dan, I’m sorry you were so offended. I find it intriguing that you don’t seem to think being “an anonymous blog entity” like gdad, Kristen or Cold in P, diminishes one’s cedibility until the “entity” disagrees with you or makes an argument that you can’t refute. In any event, clearly I wasn’t talking to you as no one would ever mistake you for a reporter. Columnist and hypocrite yes. Reporter? No. A reporter would use an accurate quote instead of paraphrasing my statement into what he wanted it to say to facilitate an ad hominem attack. What I said was:
“Schools in my district won’t lock the back door. Hell, some of them won’t even close it . . .”
Does that make it clearer for you? If they won’t close the door, you can reasonably infer that it is still there. In a subsequent post I said:
” Do you think a school with doors propped open . . .”
That would seem to indicate that they are in fact, propping the door open, right?
Warren, you actually compared a call to lock the doors at schools with turning them into North Korea, and you think I was the one being melodramatic? Really? Maybe you could use a painful peek in your hypothetical mirror.
Dan, I think your description of “how it works” with your type of media explains a lot. Have a nice day yourself.
You guys can attack me personally all you like. It is telling. When you have no answers, you go on the attack. Still though, you didn’t address this.
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
“You guys can attack me personally all you like. It is telling. When you have no answers, you go on the attack.”
–Comment by Chuck
No, Chuck, we can’t attack you personally. Because all you are is a first name on a silly blog. At least I have an identity; so do some of the other here. You don’t.
Now why don’t you start acting like a grownup and tell us what in tarnation school you’re talking about? Or is that information — which you’re demanding a story about, like spoiled 3-year-old — too sensitive for you to divulge?
Or, do you still believe that, in the spirit of “good old-fashioned newspaper” reporting (which exists only your your three-quarters whacked mind) I should visit every school in Virginia and find out for myself?
You guys make me laugh. You’re such know-it-alls. Some of you have no idea what the real world is like.
Chuck, that report by MSNBC/NBC was later updated (there’s even an “editor’s note at the start). The reporting was false; on January 18, the Connecticut state police reported that they recovered 2 handguns & a Bushmaster .223 rifle from inside the school, and inside Lanza’s car was a shotgun.
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284
Funny how you can so easily attack others but then whine about it being returned Chuck. Interesting.
I do not know of any school with nearly the lax and open doors and campus you seem to see but refuse to disclose. Most local high schools here DO have at least a part time Resource Officer and all have been in the local news as working on better security. Walmarts are open to the public. Schools are not. There is simply no comparison and I think you are wrong and until you offer evidence that you are not, that will remain my experience.
Attack over.
Not that facts matter to some, but does this address your woefully outdated and incorrect link adequately enough for you?
Not whining about it Sandi. Just pointing out that it is a behavioral pattern for folks like yourself and Dan to ignore the issues and resort to personal attacks when you don’t have a good argument. Yes, our high schools have full time SROs. As do the middle schools, but I thought we were talking about elementary/primary schools.
No amount of proof would convince you otherwise Sandi because you make your judgement not on facts but on the politics of who is speaking. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want. You are wrong, but you are free to be wrong. If public schools aren’t open to the public, what’s the argument against locking the doors when students are present? No Warren, not locking them in. That would violate the fire code. But haven’t you ever been to a movie theater? There are numerous doors that are locked from the outside but that can be opened freely from the inside.
Sandi, I am not going to name, disclose or otherwise offer proof in any public forum of which schools are more lax than others in their security measures, particularly not on an internet blog forum given the nuts and whackos that spend their entire lives surfing the net. To do so would be grossly irresponsible. The funny part is, Dan knows that. He just requests that it be done because he knows he can use my refusal to do so to mislead the uninformed into thinking what I’m saying isn’t true. In fact, both Dans are fully aware of just how irresponsible, almost criminally stupid, doing so would be, but they make the demands to try to discredit anyone who disagrees with them.
Again, gun control is part of the answer, but it is only part of it. It is not the most effective part in short term and it may never be the most important part. The most important part is the identifying the cause, and that is a mental health and legal issue. Security measures are the best short term response. Gun control has limited potential as a strategic initiative but it will be years before a beneficial result is seen. Personally, I think we should be doing ALL of it, not picking one and ignoring the others because I am not in favor of continuing with 10 more years of school shootings while we wait for an weapons ban to slowly dry up the access to weapons.
Sorry for the typo in the last paragraph. It should have said gun control is NOT the only part of the answer.
“Sandi, I am not going to name, disclose or otherwise offer proof in any public forum of which schools are more lax than others in their security measures, particularly not on an internet blog forum given the nuts and whackos that spend their entire lives surfing the net. To do so would be grossly irresponsible. The funny part is, Dan knows that. He just requests that it be done because he knows he can use my refusal to do so to mislead the uninformed into thinking what I’m saying isn’t true. In fact, both Dans are fully aware of just how irresponsible, almost criminally stupid, doing so would be, but they make the demands to try to discredit anyone who disagrees with them.”
–Comment by Chuck
Nor has (so far) Chuck privately emailed me about this security issue he considers so important. Apparently, he believes I should visit every elementary school in the state to find the one he’s talking about. That’s what he considers “good old-fashioned newspaper reporting.” LOL.
Advice, Chuck: Don’t ever call in a bomb threat to a public building with the same amount of discretion. I can imagine that one now:
911 operator: Emergency Center!
Chuck: There’s a bomb in a public building!
911 operator: OK, sir. Thank you for calling. What building?
Chuck: I can’t tell you.
911 operator: In what locality?
Chuck: I can’t tell you. That’s for you to figure out, using good old fashioned police investigation techniques!
911 operator: (A bit exasperated) That’s not how it works, mister. You don’t seriously believe we’re going to send bomb squads to every public building in Virginia, do you?
Chuck: Hey, you’re the investigators, not me. Figure it out!
911 operator: Have a nice day, sir!
Chuck: But . . .
CLICK!
“the Connecticut state police reported that they recovered 2 handguns & a Bushmaster .223 rifle from inside the school, and inside Lanza’s car was a shotgun.”
Correct…..an AR15 was used. But the point is moot. Either handgun, the 9mm or the 10mm found on the killer, could have produced the same results within the same time frame as the AR. The children were all hemmed up in a classroom. He had and used an AR, but he did not need an AR.