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	<title>Comments on: Looking ahead on the Sunday OPEN thread</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/</link>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275659</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Heller is inevitably cited as the response to any discussion of gun control measures, when in fact most readings of it that I&#039;ve found widely acknowledge that it left plenty of room for gun control laws.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heller is inevitably cited as the response to any discussion of gun control measures, when in fact most readings of it that I&#8217;ve found widely acknowledge that it left plenty of room for gun control laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Hillary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275628</link>
		<dc:creator>Hillary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave Hicks @19 - &quot;There are already many similar post-violation restrictions/penalties, either criminal or civil, on the law books — e.g., murder, maiming, armed robbery, etc.&#039;

None of the above are constitutional issues and referring to them will only act to cloud the proverbial waters.

Your comment: &quot;The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.&quot;

That&#039;s the old which came first the chicken or the egg - the act or the law?  Before laws were made restricting &quot;free speech&quot; [1st Amendment] - someone yelled FIRE in a movie theater.  Prior to making it a criminal act, there were no restrictions on what you &quot;yelled&quot;.  The law, ever evolving, recognized the public danger when the &quot;free speech&quot; defense was used in this type of case, and so, the exception to free speech was made.

Anticipating a possibility of others&#039; &quot;bad behavior&quot; [yelling &quot;Fire!&quot;] is how and why the 1st Amendment&#039;s &quot;right of free speech&quot; was limited [regulated].  Eventually &quot;hate speech&quot; was also codified as not protected speech in the same way.The law [and I hope humans] is ever evolving.

As I said in my original post to you - the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not unlimited rights - there have been many instances when  these rights were regulated.  The 2nd Amendment is not a special Amemdment nor different - the government may regulate or limit one&#039;s  &quot;right-to-bear-arms&quot;. 

Even Justice Scalia recognized that fact in the Heller ruling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Hicks @19 &#8211; &#8220;There are already many similar post-violation restrictions/penalties, either criminal or civil, on the law books — e.g., murder, maiming, armed robbery, etc.&#8217;</p>
<p>None of the above are constitutional issues and referring to them will only act to cloud the proverbial waters.</p>
<p>Your comment: &#8220;The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the old which came first the chicken or the egg &#8211; the act or the law?  Before laws were made restricting &#8220;free speech&#8221; [1st Amendment] &#8211; someone yelled FIRE in a movie theater.  Prior to making it a criminal act, there were no restrictions on what you &#8220;yelled&#8221;.  The law, ever evolving, recognized the public danger when the &#8220;free speech&#8221; defense was used in this type of case, and so, the exception to free speech was made.</p>
<p>Anticipating a possibility of others&#8217; &#8220;bad behavior&#8221; [yelling "Fire!"] is how and why the 1st Amendment&#8217;s &#8220;right of free speech&#8221; was limited [regulated].  Eventually &#8220;hate speech&#8221; was also codified as not protected speech in the same way.The law [and I hope humans] is ever evolving.</p>
<p>As I said in my original post to you &#8211; the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not unlimited rights &#8211; there have been many instances when  these rights were regulated.  The 2nd Amendment is not a special Amemdment nor different &#8211; the government may regulate or limit one&#8217;s  &#8220;right-to-bear-arms&#8221;. </p>
<p>Even Justice Scalia recognized that fact in the Heller ruling.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandi Saunders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275523</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandi Saunders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes well, &quot;adjudicated and punished in a court of law after they break the law&quot; is not working real well as a deterrent to mass shootings, so we are going with the Plan B which has existed almost as long as the Constitution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes well, &#8220;adjudicated and punished in a court of law after they break the law&#8221; is not working real well as a deterrent to mass shootings, so we are going with the Plan B which has existed almost as long as the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Hicks</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275504</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Sandi Saunders @ 1:30 pm

The point is that they don&#039;t ban your computer or everyone&#039;s computer because you or someone might download and swap pornography.

Individual adjudicated and punished in a court of law &lt;b&gt;after they break the law&lt;/b&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Sandi Saunders @ 1:30 pm</p>
<p>The point is that they don&#8217;t ban your computer or everyone&#8217;s computer because you or someone might download and swap pornography.</p>
<p>Individual adjudicated and punished in a court of law <b>after they break the law</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandi Saunders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275500</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandi Saunders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I disagree that the prohibitions are not &quot;prior restraint&quot;, we all know the crimes that can result in our &quot;punishment&quot;.  That is a prior restraint whether you call it that or not.  It may not stop &lt;b&gt;everyone&lt;/b&gt; from doing something like downloading and swapping pornography but it is well known that the restraint is expected.  The same is true for many types of arms and you know it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that the prohibitions are not &#8220;prior restraint&#8221;, we all know the crimes that can result in our &#8220;punishment&#8221;.  That is a prior restraint whether you call it that or not.  It may not stop <b>everyone</b> from doing something like downloading and swapping pornography but it is well known that the restraint is expected.  The same is true for many types of arms and you know it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Hicks</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275494</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about the bolding not closing in my last comment.

Should have been:

**
Please reread my comment.

I was talking about, “The restrictions to 1A are not prior-restraints type prohibitions on &lt;b&gt;every one&lt;/b&gt; because &lt;b&gt;someone&lt;/b&gt; might do something that is already illegal.

….

The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.”

Your example (send from your unrestrained computer) about “When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance” only demonstrates my point.  

An individual adjudicated in a court of law being barred is not the same as &lt;b&gt;every one&lt;/b&gt; being restricted because &lt;b&gt;someone&lt;/b&gt; might do something that is already illegal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the bolding not closing in my last comment.</p>
<p>Should have been:</p>
<p>**<br />
Please reread my comment.</p>
<p>I was talking about, “The restrictions to 1A are not prior-restraints type prohibitions on <b>every one</b> because <b>someone</b> might do something that is already illegal.</p>
<p>….</p>
<p>The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.”</p>
<p>Your example (send from your unrestrained computer) about “When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance” only demonstrates my point.  </p>
<p>An individual adjudicated in a court of law being barred is not the same as <b>every one</b> being restricted because <b>someone</b> might do something that is already illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Hicks</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275492</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Sandi Saunders @ 12:51 pm

I am not sure where you get the idea that no one has their “free speech” rights violated by prior restraint but many do. When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance. 

-------------

Please reread my comment.

I was talking about, &quot;The restrictions to 1A are not prior-restraints type prohibitions on &lt;b&gt;every one&lt;b&gt; because &lt;b&gt;someone&lt;b&gt; might do something that is already illegal. 

....

The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.&quot;

Your example (send from your unrestrained computer) about &quot;When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance&quot; only demonstrates my point.

An individual adjudicated in a court of law being barred is not the same as &lt;b&gt;every one&lt;b&gt; being restricted because &lt;b&gt;someone&lt;b&gt; might do something that is already illegal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Sandi Saunders @ 12:51 pm</p>
<p>I am not sure where you get the idea that no one has their “free speech” rights violated by prior restraint but many do. When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Please reread my comment.</p>
<p>I was talking about, &#8220;The restrictions to 1A are not prior-restraints type prohibitions on <b>every one</b><b> because </b><b>someone</b><b> might do something that is already illegal. </p>
<p>&#8230;.</p>
<p>The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil. The limits on 1A are enforced through adjudication of the individual.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your example (send from your unrestrained computer) about &#8220;When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance&#8221; only demonstrates my point.</p>
<p>An individual adjudicated in a court of law being barred is not the same as </b><b>every one</b><b> being restricted because </b><b>someone</b><b> might do something that is already illegal.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275484</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hardly attacked you, Dave Gresham. You&#039;re being a little sensitive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hardly attacked you, Dave Gresham. You&#8217;re being a little sensitive.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandi Saunders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275479</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandi Saunders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Movies hit people they way they hit people.  No real rhyme or reason to it.  I saw the Gérard Depardieu version of &quot;Les Miserables&quot; and &quot;The Artist&quot; over the weekend (Netflix).  I liked both, the rest of the group...not so much.  I doubt I will get to pick next time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Movies hit people they way they hit people.  No real rhyme or reason to it.  I saw the Gérard Depardieu version of &#8220;Les Miserables&#8221; and &#8220;The Artist&#8221; over the weekend (Netflix).  I liked both, the rest of the group&#8230;not so much.  I doubt I will get to pick next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandi Saunders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2013/01/looking-ahead-on-the-sunday-open-thread/#comment-275470</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandi Saunders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/?p=35970#comment-275470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not sure where you get the idea that no one has their &quot;free speech&quot; rights violated by prior restraint but many do.  When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance.  Prior restraints against previous criminals is par for the course every Halloween in many, many places.  There is some level of prior restraint on the privilege to drive a car and fly on a plane as well.  This is not some concept anyone dreamed up to harm you poor innocent law abiding gun owners.  &quot;Madam, we already established what you are, we are merely haggling over the price.&quot;  Prior restraint is the reason Class III firearms dealers exist.  It is the reason that there are arms you cannot buy or have legally.  Stop whining over a boat that has sailed and a much deserved consideration of either reclassifying these assault weapons or banning them altogether.  The slippery slope was long, long ago.  It was OK as long as it kept black people from getting guns and it was OK as long as it kept black radicals from getting guns so save the sanctimony.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure where you get the idea that no one has their &#8220;free speech&#8221; rights violated by prior restraint but many do.  When the courts bar someone from owning a computer or being online for instance.  Prior restraints against previous criminals is par for the course every Halloween in many, many places.  There is some level of prior restraint on the privilege to drive a car and fly on a plane as well.  This is not some concept anyone dreamed up to harm you poor innocent law abiding gun owners.  &#8220;Madam, we already established what you are, we are merely haggling over the price.&#8221;  Prior restraint is the reason Class III firearms dealers exist.  It is the reason that there are arms you cannot buy or have legally.  Stop whining over a boat that has sailed and a much deserved consideration of either reclassifying these assault weapons or banning them altogether.  The slippery slope was long, long ago.  It was OK as long as it kept black people from getting guns and it was OK as long as it kept black radicals from getting guns so save the sanctimony.</p>
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