Sunday’s column: A more sensible approach to handgun permits
It seems almost like yesterday that I got my Virginia concealed handgun permit. But it was actually way back in the summer of 2009.
I don’t carry a gun, nor do I own one. Getting the permit was a lark, an exercise to demonstrate how ridiculously lax Virginia’s concealed-carry requirements are.
I had no criminal record or any restraining orders against me. I was neither a habitual drunkard nor a dope fiend. No judge had ever committed me to a mental institution. Those are the basic qualifications.
About the only remaining hurdle was my “competence” with a handgun. Although I’d never touched one in my life, or taken a gun class, that was no big deal, thanks to a law that took effect July 1, 2009. It was sponsored by then-state Sen. Ken Cuccinelli.
The law said I could prove gun competence by taking an online gun lesson. I chose a one-hour internet video course by the Concealed Carry Institute, a pioneer of the field. It cost $39.95.
After that I took a simple true-false and multiple-choice quiz. Presto, my certificate of “competence” popped up on my home computer screen. I printed it out, filled out a form, paid another $50 to a court clerk and got my permit a little more than a month later — without ever touching a handgun.
Del. Luke Torian, D-Prince William
Since 2009 it’s gotten even more ridiculously convenient. Now you can qualify by paying $24.95, watching a 17-minute online video and passing a quiz offered by Virginia Gun Training, a Concealed Carry Institute competitor. Virginia Gun Training boasts on their website that no customer has ever failed to earn a certificate.
Finally this year a Virginia lawmaker tried to repeal that dumb 2009 law. Like me, Del. Luke Torian, D-Prince William County, believes it makes little sense for the state to issue concealed carry permits to handgun virgins. After all, the DMV doesn’t hand out drivers licenses to people who’ve never touched a car.
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
January 20, 2013 - 6:00 AM
What about free speech permits? Should untrained writers be allowed to write in the Roanoke Times?
This is probably a stupid question, but I’ll ask it anyway. When you fill out that form and send it in, do they do a background check to make sure you don’t have a criminal record?
“What about free speech permits? Should untrained writers be allowed to write in the Roanoke Times?”
–Comment by Henry
Henry wants a PERMIT to blog here! How sweet!
Thanks for the links in the article.I have been looking for on online site to get my permit and thanks to you i now have the links.
@Debbie,
Yes, they do. It is pretty thorough, too.
Terrific article Dan. Where the heck is common sense? Considering you need to practice with scissors before you cut hair, the whole gun license process is monumentally ignorant.
Whatever BASIC firearms training the police receive is what the public should be required to learn (if they’re going to carry weapons around with them).
This argument that concealed carry is a problem because its too easy in Virginia, which I hear a lot from non-gun understanding citizens, is focused on the trees and not the forest. The only two things wrong with these permits are you have to take a test and it costs $50. All it is is a source of revenue. It does nothing. I don’t need a permit to carry my gun under my shirt instead of outside of it, the constitution gives me that right. But who would rather face a legal battle over over $50. But again it does nothing.
I would love to hear why you think your post wasn’t a waste of time. I’m honestly glad you wrote it because if the left keeps attacking law abiding citizens, you will lose your slim majority and I’m all for that. But please tell me what comes from having a card that fits in my wallet and tells me I have the right to legally carry a gun not in plain sight versus in plain sight will do to stop gun violence? Do you think any one of the crazies who have shot up a public place or any of the bangers on the street ever contiplated whether or not they should get one before carrying out their crimes? Stop wasting our time. Support a society change in America that doesn’t glorify gun violence. Support changes to our mental health system. Support changes to our news media that doesn’t make these bad guys famous for what they do. Support changes that allow us to quickly confront and take out these nuts as soon as it begins rather than waiting on law enforcement to show up. But stop attacking the rights of legal and upstanding citizens just to carry out your agenda regradless if it makes a difference or not. Stop wasting time and support serious changes that will reduce this senseless violence.
There is a book called `Nudge`, written by Cass Sunstein(an unvetted Csar of the Obama administration)which, in a nutshell, explains how to dupe the American people by just `Nudging` them. Just a little at a time. When `they` think you shouldn`t be eating red meat, they`ll tax the producers in order to get the slight price increase until it is out of reach, monetarily. Same with these gun discussions. Just a little nudge here and there, and before you know it, you`re 2nd amendment is in peril. Obamacare didn`t happen overnight, it took years and years of cultivation and cunning backroom deals, demonization of any who opposed it and ..Viola, you now have have this 2700 page financial diasaster. Watch for the `NUDGE`…thats how they work.
#4 is interesting, but I have a feeling that Mr. Gresham is `nudging` toward a tax for firearm training.
Five people accidentally shot at gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day. How ironic…
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/01/19/on-gun-appreciation-day-three-separate-gun-shows-four-people-shot/
Meet the Press panel today? four ultra liberals and one commentator just conservative enough to be employed by MSNBC. That’s who we have informing the general public on things like gun laws. No wonder the vast majority of America is so uninformed and why we are clearly headed the wrong way.
Dan, Dan, Dan,
You are all turned around on this point. Instead of trying to paint this as a dubious service to the citizens of 30 states or so, we should be partnering to create our own online class. I have background in instructional design and know how to set up a Moodle server on which we can create a fantastical class that’s even easier and more accessible than those currently offered. We will undercut the competition by charging less money than the other services. We can do it with two fewer multiple choice questions than any other test! To heck with multiple choice, we can just do True or False.
Sample:
The trigger is part of the gun? (T or F)
Once we get the content and delivery fleshed out, we could use your persuasive talents and connections to get the class approved by whatever agency that has that responsibility. Apparently that will be the easiest part of of all.
I’ve also developed quite a skill set with social media and advertising. Once we get on Facebook and Twitter, and manipulate the search engines to steer business our way, I think we can both work at home in our pajamas for the rest of our lives.
I would suggest adding John Wilburn to the mix as his firearm expertise might add some credibility to the project. Unfortunately, he seems to have one to many scruple to be part of this grand plan. I get the impression that he feels that an actual, tangible experience with a firearm is a necessary component of effective training. A quaint idea to be sure, but our the great thinkers in our state legislature have already passed judgement on this antiquated idea. Is there any greater repository of wisdom than a state legislature?
In any case, the offer stands. I can help pull this off as long as I don’t think about the long term consequences of it.
“Gun Appreciation Day” should be renamed “Natural Selection Appreciation Day”
Hey dano,
Sooo, how many concealed carry Virginians have committed crimes, such as murder? Malicious wounding? Littering? Do you have any idea?
I venture a guess that essentially all murders, malicious woundings, and littering in Virginia are perpetrated by folks who don’t have concealed carry permits.
scott@5..
You do realize that 5 people shot at guns shows is but a small percentage of the people who attend said shows. When you consider the number of people and firearms at one of these events, its really quite an acceptable risk.
You do realize that 5 people shot at guns shows is but a small percentage of the people who attend said shows. When you consider the number of people and firearms at one of these events, its really quite an acceptable risk.
Comment by Mike Scott — January 20, 2013 @ 9:54 am
No, it’s not an acceptable risk. There is no excuse for even one negligent discharge at a gun show, even if it doesn’t hit anyone. No excuse.
Forget my Meet the Press comment, This Week with George Stephanopoulos had Eve Longoria on. Intellectual balance has been restored.
#7…That is your liberal, fringe media making up stories, as they do quite frequently. (Hereinafter referred to as a `Nudge`)
#8…Mike Scott seems very interested in working with Dan while in their pajamas. Despite the initial need to reguritate, I was wondering if this is your life-long ambition ? To stay home in your `jammies` ?You`ll make a great leader and role-model.
Uhh, Marcus is AFRAID to tell you how many have taken it? Why? Isn’t he heavily armed?
“The trigger is part of the gun? (T or F)” Good one Mike
“Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not“. Thomas Jeffreson “You only have the rights you are willing to fight for“. Me
What’s the matter, jason gibson…that whole “Google” thing just too overwhelming?
Maybe not being not bright enough to figure out how to get your permit should serve as an exclusionary factor.
Jack, I think Mike Scott was being satirical. I could be wrong.
#19 Applewood demonstrates its basic ignorance.
Applewood,
The link below, to Monticello.org website, indicates they’ve found no evidence that Thomas Jefferson ever wrote or made the statement you quoted at 10:15. Perhaps you should ask Dan to delete your false post.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/those-who-hammer-their-guns-plowsquotation
Come on, Ron, don’t you know that if the subject is religion or guns, folks are allowed to attribute whatever they want to Jefferson, especially if they think it supports their desire to convert everybody to Christianity or to own any weapon they want?
“Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not.”
–A line ‘Applewood’ attributes to Thomas Jeffreson[sic].
Applewood,
‘Thomas Jeffreson’ may have said that, but who the hell is he, and why are you quoting him here, and who cares? If you meant to say that Thomas Jefferson, one of this nation’s founding fathers, and its third president, said it, you’re dead wrong. But I doubt you care about that, eh?
‘Cuz, dagnabbit, IT SOUNDS GOOD!
Right?
Ron….Whether he said it or not has no bearing on anything. It is a true and corect statement regarding `CONTROL`. Sheesh… Is that all that you can conjure up, Ron ?
Yes, Dan..it does sound good. Glad to see you admit it. It also appears you have some history to learn, Because I feel sure your liberal overseers in school didn`t want to scare you with its teachings. Know guns…Know Peace….Know Safety No guns No peace No safety That sounds pretty good, too. But my favorite `sounds good` is as follows..“We will own guns forever, and there isn`t a thing you can do about it“. ME
hey dano,
if you really want to put your time to good use, why doncha go bark up a tree which actually has bad folks in it, like drunk drivers?
but, noooo. you are driven by political ideology, not commen sense. sooo, you spend your time barking up trees full of law-abiding citizens.
“There is a book called `Nudge`, written by Cass Sunstein(an unvetted Csar of the Obama administration)which, in a nutshell, explains how to dupe the American people by just `Nudging` them. Just a little at a time. When `they` think you shouldn`t be eating red meat, they`ll tax the producers in order to get the slight price increase until it is out of reach, monetarily. Same with these gun discussions. Just a little nudge here and there, and before you know it, you`re 2nd amendment is in peril. Obamacare didn`t happen overnight, it took years and years of cultivation and cunning backroom deals, demonization of any who opposed it and ..Viola, you now have have this 2700 page financial diasaster. Watch for the `NUDGE`…thats how they work.”
–Comment by Applewood
I can offer a fuller explanation of how the “The Nudge” worked to establish Obamacare. In true Manchurian-Candidate-conspiracy fashion, it actually started way way back in the early 1990s, long before Obama was ever elected to ANYTHING, and when hardly anybody except for his mother and a few law students at Harvard had ever heard of him. The full blame rests on Bill and Hillary Clinton.
You see, back then, in between commie-lib extramarital affairs and fits of throwing White House dishes at each other, Bill and Hillary cooked up a universal healthcare scheme of the managed care variety.
They did this mostly shrouded in secrecy, not because they wanted to enact universal healthcare of the managed-care variety, but because the behind-closed-doors aspect of it would a) ensure the plan’s failure); b) engender he greatest amount of criticism; and c) prompt conservatives to react with their own plan.
Meanwhile, the CIA was tasked to infect Newt Gingrich with toxoplasmosis, which would weaken his brain, which would make him more susceptible to “liberal” ideas and more likely to offer an insane alternative.
It worked like a charm. As the Clinton healthcare initiative went down in flames, Gingrich offered an alternative plan that became known as a individual mandate.
The wily Clintons knew that Newt was too polarizing a figure ever to get the individual mandate accomplished, however. So with the assistance of James Bond and other operatives from the British Secret Service, they politically assassinated Gingrich by forcing him to have an affair with a staffer and making sure House Republicans censured him for other reasons.
After that, the CIA placed operatives in the Heritage Foundation, where they started making whispers about the individual mandate. (You will find NO references to this at the HF, however, because newly installed President Jim Demint has ordered its records totally scrubbed of the term “individual mandate.”)
The HF decided they needed to enact this at the state level first. They chose Massachusetts, and then the worldwide Illuminati Conspiracy got to work. They made sure that state would elect a pro-choice, anti-global warming Republican as governor. His name? Mitt Romney.
Romneycare, with its individual mandate, passed the Massachusetts legislature. Heritage Foundation poohbahs gathered in Boston for the bill signing and they had a great big party for that. This made Romney a leading GOP presidential candidate in 2008.
But that was too soon to judge how well the plan was working in Massachusetts so it could be sold to the nation. So the CIA made sure Romney lost the 2008 GOP presidential primary contest.
In the meantime, the Clintons ensured that Obama’s star was rising. They helped him get elected state senator, then U.S. Senator (by creating a sex scandal for his first opponent, then installing Alen Keyes as his second opponent).
Hillary’s foray into the 2008 Democratic primary process was never intended to win her the nomination. Rather, it was an extremely clever “cover” so that nobody would ever accuse the Clintons of secretly working behind the scenes for Obama. As added security, Obama would NOT propose Romneycare as his own model for a healthcare system during the primaries. That would come later.
Obama wins, then the Clintons got him to change his mind, and model the healthcare plan after the Newt Gingrich- and Heritage Foundation-plan known then as Romneycare. And it worked, despite a way too late effort by the newly formed Tea Party to defeat it.
They are crafty, those Clintons, especially when they’re backed by the Illuminati.
And that, Applewood, is how “The Nudge” REALLY works. See? It’s far more complicated than even you had imagined!
Applewood, don’t be so doltish. You claimed your little ditty was a quote from Jefferson because you thought that would lend it more authority. You lied. Period.
Comment by Applewood — January 20, 2013 @ 10:32 am
So Applewood because you say Jefferson said it, it’s true. Somehow that crap doesn’t flush with me. Nor does it flush with anyone else who has even one grain of intelligence. But then, I guess it flushes with you.
Gdad,
In defense of Applewood, it’s too strong to characterize the putative, and fake, quote from Jefferson as a lie. There are a lot of fake Jefferson quotes out there that gunners often cite to bolster their bad arguments.
It’s more likely Applewood lifted it from some other place because he/she thought it sounded good.
Call it the misinformed, schooling the misinformed.
Bill Clinton, the only semi-rational liberal left, took a dig at Obama yesterday. His statement (paraphased) was, Democrats should be very careful about belittling gun owners. Taking on gun owner’s rights have always been a losing issue for the left. Keep it up, Barack! I’m beginning to look forward to the mid-terms already.
Martin Skelly, a friend of mine originally from Roanoke, is running in the SC special election as a Democrat. Don’t let the D fool you….he is VERY fiscally conservative.
Applewood,
Thanks for reading!. To answer your question, yes, if I could make a gainful living working from home in my jammies, I would. I assume if Dan were to do so, he would do in his home. And why the personal attack with homophobic overtones? We hardly know each other.
But I would so only in some meaningful context. The aforementioned project does not fit that into that category. Glad it got your own jammies in a wad though.
Once you get that straightened out, explain to me why a comprehensive and and effective gun safety program for concealed carry isn’t a good idea. Nobody here proposed banning weapons, or depriving people of their rights to own guns. It’s only cursory matter of ensuring some measure of safety. This is a bad idea? So how so…
Jack@16
Kristen isn’t wrong. It’s satirical, but not really, someone who believes it would have made the same point, eventually. The argument from statistical insignificance is commonly used. Glad you don’t agree.
“Whether he said it or not has no bearing on anything.”
Well since you “quoted” him, you might be interested. I guess not. You might have set a new record around here for having gone immediately to having zero crediblity.
“Yabba Dabba Doo”…Fred Flintstone.
MikeScott…it’s hard to satirize some of the pro-gun positions.
Hey, Mike Scott, I know any number of people who are quite gainfully employed working from home (not work-at-home scams) including some who have become quite rich doing so. I wonder what Applewood has against that.
Kristen…there is a technical term for it!
Poe’s law..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
” Jump to: navigation, search
“Poe’s law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is an Internet adage reflecting the idea that without a clear indication of the author’s intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.”
Jack@16
Kristen isn’t wrong. It’s satirical, but not really, someone who believes it would have made the same point, eventually. The argument from statistical insignificance is commonly used. Glad you don’t agree.
Comment by Mike Scott — January 20, 2013 @ 12:07 pm
I knew you were being sarcastic, but I did feel it necessary to say that anyway. If 100,000,000 people in America attended a gun show and there were only one negligent discharge and it didn’t hit anyone, it would still be unacceptable. I am not saying that legislation should fix it, though… people need to take responsibility for their actions. Follow the very simple rules of gun safety and there would be zero.
Some call it nudge. I use the same term the liberals use. Progressive. Each step they take progresses us away from the democratic founding principals and closer to socialism. Got to get the guns to go all the way though. That’s why the Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment. To keep the government from taking away freedoms. But the same group that is pro abortion will jump on a school shooting, bring kids out on stage and say if you don’t go along with our plans, you don’t care about the kids. Just another nudge or progressive step away from our founding principals.
You all could save a lot of typing and raise the intelligence threshold of this discussion if someone would answer Eddie’s #7 basic question: How would any increase in the requirements to get a concealed carry permit, or purchase a gun result in reducing gun violence? Maybe Dan can Google the requirements in Chicago or Detriot. We here in Virginia might be able to learn something from them.
Is there a place on earth free from right wing idiocy?
My God, Sandi..why don`t you just step in front of the `bus` ? Yes, there are plenty of places for you to escape our rightwingedness…China, Venezuala, Cuba. I would love to see how long you would last…you`d be begging to get back. When are you leaving ?
Dan..#31…Bored, are we ? If what I posted didn`t strike a brutal nerve, you would have ignored it. I love making correct and truthful statements. Its all about `control`, folks…If they can shape your thoughts/actions, they can control you. Ain`t gonna work on us(RW), but we see its already worked on you(LW). Shame…crying Shame(Honest).
#32/33….To me, it really doesn`t matter..If I made a mistake, so be it. As I told Mr. Casey, it doesn`t matter who said it, its true. And after all, thats what we`re about …the truth. Too bad you girls wouldn`t know the truth if it hit you in the face.
I again…just like in 2009, sat here shaking my head as I read your article…
In 2009, I thanked you for bring the stupidity of the gun laws in VA to my attention…now, I’m just totally ashamed and embarrassed…
I keep typing and deleting..I just do not know what to say about this new article of yours….
I think I’ll just leave it at that…..as I sit here shaking my head in disbelief once again….just like in 2009…..(sigh)
Sockpuppet theater. Meh.
“To me, it really doesn`t matter..If I made a mistake, so be it. As I told Mr. Casey, it doesn`t matter who said it, its true. And after all, thats what we`re about …the truth. Too bad you girls wouldn`t know the truth if it hit you in the face.”
–Comment by Applewood.
Hey Applewood! I found the actual author of that quote! It is Josef Stalin. There you go, and as you said, “it doesn’t really matter who said it.” Thomas Jefferson, Joe Stalin — what’s the difference, eh?
As for “it really doesn`t matter..If I made a mistake, so be it,” I think I’ve heard that line from folks before, after they have accidentally shot and killed friends and/or loved ones. It’s always a charmer.
Hey Captain Adventure,
Of course no lib will answer Eddie’s question in #7, …particularly Dan.
Answering the question would require dan, or any of the other libs bloviating on this thread, to have to engage their brains into considering actual facts. Libs find it much easier for their low-information intellect to absorb political ideology from opinion writers like dan. Lets call it “the lazy being led by the ideologs”.
So, no, there won’t be a lib response to the question raised by Eddie in #7….because that would require libs to have to actually think.
Matt.
Kristen,
If you’re suggesting that Applewood is Matt (who we haven’t heard from in awhile) I don’t think that’s the case. The IP addys are different. However, “Applewood” did post once before under another name, “Va. Slim,” back in November, using the same email addy. Here is the text of that comment:
“Stop the bickering and do something to help, rather than hurt. Both sides. Go to http://www.applewoodgrilling.com These folks have a great way to flavor the burgers, ribs, chicken, etc., of your grilling sessions. It tastes absolutely delicious, plus it also helps the children stricken with cancer. Please lay down your sticks for a moment and do something worthwhile. We did and now have a much better taste in our mouths.”
Dan @ 11:07
Your conspiracy theory story is fine as far as it goes. But it really doesn’t tell the whole story. It all started back in 1961 when the trilateral commission in cahoots with the illuminati selected a mixed race Kenyan baby, spirited him off to Hawaii, and put in place a grand conspiracy to elect him president of the USA. Then, over years of highly selective mind control techniques including the inflammatory teachings of Muslims , commies, and ultimately the genius Saul Alinsky, they put into motion their plan to bring down America as a world power and reestablish control of the elite who were meant to rule over the world—corporations and their boards of directors and CEOS. And the real genius of the plan is the clever ruse of pretending to establish universal health care as the vehicle for taking over people’s minds
The only thing standing between us and this dastardly plot are the brave
patriots of the Tea Party and the NAR. With their trusty Glocks and Bushmasters with the high capacity magazines,they will rise up and and fight off the elite with their tanks, grenade launchers and highly trained mercenary armies and restore truth justice and the American way.
Amen Brother.
Ah ha! Another product or service from a right-tard asshat that I won’t be wasting my money on.
Eddie @#7, trees are a large part of any forest. If a permit is as easy as the Virginia permit is, it becomes less than worthless. If that is not a problem in your mind, that is your choice.
The purpose of a concealed carry permit is that society has some assurance that an effort has been made to verify that the person is vetted and trusted to carry a gun safely in public. Anything that diminishes that vetting gives a false credibility to the permit. That should matter as much to gun lovers as gun control advocates. They represent you, not me.
I appreciate that you think you get to assign laws and behavior for all of society. Society, through our laws, has determined you do “need a permit to carry my gun under my shirt instead of outside of it”. Otherwise you are breaking the law and cannot claim to be a “law-abiding gun owner” can you?
It is more than clear that you and others do not get that this is way more than “the left keeps attacking law abiding citizens” and you might want to pay some attention to that reality before it bites you in the butt.
If you think this is all so detrimental to “the left” you should shut up and let us “lose your slim majority” and all that goes with it. You know better, that is why you don’t.
Can you possibly be so naive as to think that only career criminals use guns inappropriately or in crime? In Virginia and any place else that CCP is so easy to get, a CCP means nothing. Do you think every one of the “crazies” who have shot others did not have a CCP? “Stop wasting our time” indeed.
Do you think that the NRA and gun advocates do not contribute to or “glorify gun violence”? Seen some of their videos or websites lately? Who is it you are trying to kid?
Like right wingers are going to “Support changes to our mental health system”! Or do rights only matter if they are gun rights? Dead people know nothing of their status in the news. That is a red herring from media haters. What “changes that allow us to quickly confront and take out these nuts as soon as it begins” are you talking about? What rights will need to be invaded to accomplish that?
You are all for attacking other people’s rights, just not your own. Typical.
In this day and age “upstanding citizens” is a term that can be debated. You do not support “serious change”, you support a police state for those you think deserve it. Nothing more.
“I love making correct and truthful statements.”
Comment by applewood — January 20, 2013 @ 2:23 pm
“To me, it really doesn`t matter..If I made a mistake, so be it.”
Comment by applewood — January 20, 2013 @ 2:27 pm
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, this is Mr. Pot; You two really should get to know one another.
Applewood — January 20, 2013 @ 9:35 am, there are a hell of a lot of books that tell us how you right wing nuts “work” too.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-the-rich-20111109#ixzz22QsozwDU
“Low-Effort Thought Promotes Political Conservatism”
http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/03/16/0146167212439213.abstract?rss=1
“Bright Minds and Dark Attitudes
Lower Cognitive Ability Predicts Greater Prejudice Through Right-Wing Ideology and Low Intergroup Contact”
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract
“Uninformed Votes: Information Effects in Presidential Elections”
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2111700?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101272052791
The Betrayal of the American Dream
It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism
The Broken Branch: How Congress Is Failing America and How to Get It Back on Track (Institutions of American Democracy)
The Party Is Over: How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless, and the Middle Class Got Shafted
Oh and “applewood”, if “Whether he said it or not has no bearing on anything”, why did you need to spread the lie that he did? You like to call out others over their lies and their “Nudge”, what about your own? No, of course you make no connection.
Wow, no right wingers in “China, Venezuala, Cuba”? Who knew?
“Whether he said it or not has no bearing on anything. It is a true and corect statement regarding `CONTROL`. Sheesh…”
Comment by Applewood
Okay Applewood. In that case Wayne Lapierre said “I now realize that I’ve selfishly led the NRA into doing the bidding of gun manufacturers, and have decided to drop that and support common sense and humane proposals for making massacre by gun harder to accomplish”, because, to quote you, Applewood, “Whether he said it or not has no bearing on anything”.
Applewood, here’s a direct question to you that will have a direct answer from an honest person, and an evasive one from a dishonest person:
What is the specific percentage of sales revenues that your applewood.com site says will be donated to the children’s hospital in Tennessee, and have you already begun making those donations?
I’ve got an idea for you, Dan. Now that you’ve done a piece on how stupid easy it is to get a concealed carry permit, how about you do a piece on how Commonwealth Attorney’s can carry a concealed handgun without having to have ANY training or permit? Oh, and also consume legally alcohol in a bar while carrying (something that you or I can’t do)?
“I’ve got an idea for you, Dan. Now that you’ve done a piece on how stupid easy it is to get a concealed carry permit, how about you do a piece on how Commonwealth Attorney’s can carry a concealed handgun without having to have ANY training or permit? Oh, and also consume legally alcohol in a bar while carrying (something that you or I can’t do)?”
–Comment by Micheal
Michael,
I understand that this factual little nugget burns your soul. Not only is it true, but it is UNFAIR! UNFAIR! UNFAIR! and it was the reasoning behind a bill the VCDL once promoted allowing concealed carriers to drink alcohol in bars while carrying concealed (oops!, I know: there are no “bars” in Virginia. There only are restaurants that serve alcohol, most of which actually have bars, go figure — but no matter). Anyway, you’re right. Prosecutors can drink while carrying but you cannot.
However:
1) Prosecutors constitute a miniscule proportion of the general population, and that makes this a really teeny-tiny sliver issue. Let’s face it, there just aren’t that many prosecutors in Virginia, compared to the general population, or the number of high-school dropouts, for that matter.
2) I would argue they are by and large more responsible than your average citizen — certainly, more responsible than journalists, anyway. As lawyers, they have a keener sense of liability than the average person, and as prosecutors they have a keener sense of criminal action than your average college grad, or your average Joe with a high school diploma, or your average Cletus who dropped out in the 10th grade and makes meth in a trailer but has never been caught and therefore has a concealed carry permit; and
3) Unlike with your average concealed carrier, I’ve never heard of a unpermitted prosecutor getting drunk and discharging his weapon in a bar (I know, there ARE NO BARS IN VIRGINIA — see above).
See, you are arguing that because Oxycontin is legal, heroin should be legal, too — and cocaine, crystal meth, ecstasy, LSD, PCP, 2CB, 2CT-7, 5-MEO DMT, yada yada. I don’t believe that. I believe the more illegal drugs that you make legal, the more they’re gonna get out there and be abused.
So, the more concealed carriers you legalize drinking in bars while carrying, the more incidents of drunk concealed carriers you’re gonna have shooting those places up when they’re on a bender.
Best to keep those numbers to a minimum, eh? The good thing about the current law is, concealed carriers are generally FORBIDDEN TO DRINK while carrying and that seems to have mostly worked to keep shootups in bars by permit holders to mimumum, although it hasn’t prevented every case, of which you are well aware.
But thanks for posting!
“See, you are arguing that because Oxycontin is legal, heroin should be legal, too — and cocaine, crystal meth, ecstasy, LSD, PCP, 2CB, 2CT-7, 5-MEO DMT, yada yada.”
What? I’m not arguing any such thing at all. Nor am I arguing that concealed carriers should be allowed to drink while carrying. If I want to drink, all I have to do is make my weapon visible…consuming alcohol while open carrying is perfectly legal.
And the issue of attornies carrying without permits doesn’t “burn my soul”, I’m simply pointing out how the law applies to some and not to others.
Any else enjoy BBQ? If so, here’s a marvelous product that helps your grilled foods taste great! And such a deal! Only 3.99 for three whole pounds!!!
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/weber-3-lb-bag-of-apple-wood-chips-17004.html
(note; other competitors charge up to $16.00 per bag, but they don’t use fancy packaging to keep the costs down).
So applewood actually owns an online business, which he presumably operates in the comfort of his own home. How entrepreneurial of you. Congratulations, but this is confusing to me as your remarks regarding my own online business ambitions were so disparaging.
and… .Good job Sandy.
“So applewood actually owns an online business, which he presumably operates in the comfort of his own home. How entrepreneurial of you. Congratulations, but this is confusing to me as your remarks regarding my own online business ambitions were so disparaging.”
Mike Scott, actually Applewood disparaged people who sit at home in their PJs. From this we can assume he/she sleeps in their street clothes, or . . . he/she wears NO clothes, i.e., Applewood is a nudist.
Which is cool, but quite a difficult act if you want to carry concealed!
(I bet even John Wilburn and Dave Hicks will vouch for me on that one).
Hey Dano, just for grins and giggles, exactly how many cases of ” your average concealed carrier . . . getting drunk and discharging his weapon in a bar” in Virginia have you found since the doom and gloom you predicted when it passed? If I recall the gun-o-phobes were predicting shootouts over spilled drinks and waitresses being shot over mistaken orders. Can you provide some examples to back up your rhetoric?
One of the big tragedies of the Newtown shootings was the number of gun threads it spawned on this blog.
If Dan getting his concealed carry permit was to prove that even an idiot could do it, then evidently he succeeded. Congratulations Dan, you’re an idiot with a CCP.
More gun threads = fewer posts by Suzie = no tragedy.
Now THERE’S an equation!
It appears that the requirements to get a concealed carry permit are much more stringent than the requirements to be a columnist for the Roanoke Times.
Duh, are you a LIBERAL, Den you get da job…..
“It appears that the requirements to get a concealed carry permit are much more stringent than the requirements to be a columnist for the Roanoke Times.
Duh, are you a LIBERAL, Den you get da job…..”
–Comment by BobH
Welcome back, BobH. Thank you for paying attention to me! I had forgotten all about you!
Let’s analyze what you have written, above.
Could BobH get a concealed carry permit? Probably. Almost any high school dropout that didn’t get sent to jail or the loony bin qualifies. In Virginia, BobH could even get one if he had never touched a handgun in his life.
Could BobH get a columnist’s job on The Roanoke Times? IMHO Definitely NOT, given the misinformation he’s posted here regularly, the evident trouble he has with basic facts and his well-known lack of a sense of humor.
BUZZZZZZZZZ! You’re OUT, BobH. You can pass the CCP test. But not the newspaper’s!
(We love you anyway, though, and encourage you to keep posing comments here to show how much we dominate your consciousness.)
“One of the big tragedies of the Newtown shootings was the number of gun threads it spawned on this blog.”
IOW, suzie thinks one of the worst result of Newtown is that people on this blog are paying less attention to her.
Hey dan,what kind of test do you take to buy booze? The dmv wont give you a permit to drive a car just because you turn 21. and look at all the deaths and lives ruined by booze. whay more than guns ever has. yet you write nothing about it.
Your article today Dan was quite sensible.Only had to read it once but double checked you wrote it.
The difference between guns and drunk driving is that no one’s out flogging for drunk driving.
Kristen:
“The difference between guns and drunk driving is that no one’s out flogging for drunk driving.”
Guns can be carried responsibly or irresponsibly, legally or illegally. Drunk driving is always irresponsible and illegal. Not ever sure how that was supposed to be comparable.
Sandi,
“is there a place on earth free from right-wing idiocy?”
Yep. Detroit. Chicago. New York. L.A. San Francisco. Washington, D.C. Roanoke. and on, and on, and on, and, so forth.
Sorry, Frank, Dan’s blog proves there is right-wing idiocy in and immediately around Roanoke. Heck, Ralph Smith was once mayor of Roanoke. Until he “moved” 59 times to get elected.
The only qualification to get a job as a columnist for the RT (non sports) is to be a liberal.
No, I am happy to say I would not qualify.
The obsession with guns drove this columnist to get a CCP when he didn’t even have a gun.
Off the deep end……
BobH,
There are some posters here who absolutely are obsessed with guns. I’m not not one of them.
Dan, I believe the word you are looking for is “deflection”. It is a lot easier to call you an “obsessive” than to admit the idiocy you pointed out in neon is a problem.
Re: Dan Casey @ 11:50 am
Dang if you didn’t fool me — and I suspect quite a number on folk both side of the current debate.