Thrusting & parrying on the Thursday OPEN thread
Shot by Dan at a martial arts studio in Salem
“We can escape the commonplace only by manipulating it, controlling it, thrusting it into our dreams or surrendering it to the free play of our subjectivity.”
Raoul Vaneigem
January 17, 2013 - 10:00 AM
I’m sure the Governor of Florida appreciates the support.
http://www.wpbf.com/news/politics/Satanists-to-rally-in-support-of-Gov-Rick-Scott/-/8788770/18123142/-/li2157z/-/index.html
Presidents: they’re not just like us. They run the free world. They get assassinated or face assassination attempts. Four presidents have been assassinated (with guns) and two presidents were shot during assassination attempts.There have been 20 assassination attempts against sitting and former presidents that we even know of. And the Secret Service stands in the way of these assassinations, as it did when Timothy McCarthy took a bullet for Reagan. Obama is particularly at risk, and was assigned secret service protection when he was still an Illinois senator, making him the first candidate to receive such protection before even getting nominated. Obama receives 30 death threats a day.
http://jezebel.com/5976397/the-nra-video-on-sasha-and-malia-the-nra-doesnt-want-you-to-see
Scenario: You have to enter Room 1 or Room 2. Both rooms have 100 people in them and one mentally ill person with a firearm. Room 1 is in a “gun safe zone.”(The mentally ill person choose to ignore that) Room 2 has 8 armed citizens with CCP’s. Ok, which one do you choose to enter?
Below are two links to articles that I have read in the last 24 hours as I try to learn more about the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. The first is a rather lengthy law journal article about the original intent of the amendment. It takes a while to read, but it’s a good history about the 2nd amendment came about. The second is an article that refers to a more modern discussion about why the 2nd amendment was passed in the first place and gives the original draft of the amendment written by James Madison and the draft that was ultimately passed by the Constitutional convention. As a historian I found both articles informative and interesting.
https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/conlaw/articles/volume10/issue3/Kozuskanich10U.Pa.J.Const.L.413(2008).pdf
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery#.UPXkRhEJ01R.facebook
R.I.P. Dear Abby.
Another Chuck: Scenario: You have to enter Room 1 or Room 2.
At gunpoint?
Another Chuck,
Thank you for not fantasizing about the rape/murder of my daughter as part of your hypothetical. I reckon you’re another one of those people who would never imagine such a thing.
Re #3:
Here’s a hypothetical for Another Chuck:
You have to either fantasize scenarios that will never happen while encouraging a reality of thousands of gun deaths monthly and periodic mass murder by gun, or stick to reality and support a broad range of humane common sense approaches that make it harder for gun violence to happen in the first place. Which do you…
Oh that’s right, you choose the first.
I asked the following, responding to a comment by Sandi in another thread, but I don’t think the thread is being followed as much now, so I’ll move it here because I’m interested in an answer.
The laws now and the laws to come.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 17, 2013 @ 9:43 am
Sandi (or anyone else who cares to answer),
I meant to ask… do you think the NYPD should hand over all of their magazines and rifles to be destroyed? Keep these things in mind when you answer…
- It is now illegal in New York to have a magazine that holds more than seven rounds;
- There is no exemption in the law for law enforcement officers;
- There are no magazines in existence for the guns that NYPD officers carry that hold only seven rounds.
In order for the officers to not be felons, their magazines for their guns must be immediately destroyed. The AR-15 rifles that they are issued also are illegal.
So, do you think that law enforcement officers are above the law, or do you think that they should abide by laws that their legislators voted on and passed, even if they do not like it?
I appreciate the highly intellectual critique of my very hypothetical scenario. But, outside of a few clever responses, no one answered the question.
The obvious answer is Room 2. The point is that the crazies and criminals are always going to have guns and not follow the rules. A responsible armed citizen could be all of ours only hope one day.
If anyone wants to take 5 minutes and watch this link, you might find it very informative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWNOiw_XIV8&sns=em
Dan, that was a little bit of a cheap shot with the reference to your daughter. You must have been watching Obama to much lately. He is a big fan of human props and has sunk low enough to bring in small children to promote his progressive agenda.
Old VDOT really got out in front of this one. No slurry on the roads and not a plow in sight.
I had to pick my son up early today (approx 1pm) and saw VDOT all over the place.
“Dan, that was a little bit of a cheap shot with the reference to your daughter. You must have been watching Obama to much lately. He is a big fan of human props and has sunk low enough to bring in small children to promote his progressive agenda.”
–Comment by Another Chuck.
AC, my “cheap shot,” as you called it, was NOT inspired by Obama. It was inspired by mikeO, who on another thread fantasized this hypothetical:
“I am curious… if you and your daughter were in a situation where you were confronted by an armed person who knew from your writings you were “anti-gun”.
So, testing you, he laid down his gun and said he would, first, do (unspeakable things) to your daughter and kill her and then kill you (with or without unspeakable things), unless you picked up that gun and stopped him.
Would you:
A) Allow things to go forward hoping he might change his mind.
B) Suggest that he read your blog and know what a nice guy you are
C) Pray
D) Grab the gun and shoot the SOB”
That was the cheap shot, AC. Anyway thank you again for not fantasizing the rape and murder of one of my loved ones. Because that stuff’s indicative of a sick mind.
I would never do that, Dan. I wish good health and prosperity for all on your blog!
hey dan,
you have no proof other than your imagination that anybody on your blog would “fantacizes” about that which only YOU allege. The scenarios were hypothetical, and clearly identified as such. I do understand the point you are trying to make. Howver, do you REALLY believe that MO and AC were REALLY fantacizing as only you say the were?
In my opinion, you are merely trying to exploit the issue, for some odd reason, ad nauseum.
regarding obama…..
…I wonder why obama didn’t read us any letters from the little kiddies asking him “when will mommy and daddy be able to get jobs?”
Watching the New York Times getting duped on Notre Dame football star’s fictional girlfriend is just unbelievable. The mainstream media, as with obama, did no checking, no verification, no vetting. Just accepted the phony narrative and reported is as fact.
Why do we allow these clowns to have so much power, anyway?
http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax
What a shame that it happened with Notre Dame, the nation’s leading Roman Catholic institution of higher education. Their PR office flogged this stuff like a rented mule. No doubt the sportswriters should not have believed the college. I’m betting that won’t happen again.
Te’o is Mormon. I’m sure someone at ND is serving up a fat helping of “I told you so”.
17:
Watching the Catholic laity getting duped on widespread clerical sexual abuse of children and the Vatican and various Diocese’s fictional concern for more than self-interest is just unbelievable. (But true).
It’s a sick mind that would even come up with such a hypothesis, Frank.
It’s “ad nauseam”, Frank. But it’s probably easier to just call it “Frank”. And at least you can spell it. And your freakish obsession with the mythical forced buggery of that Ambassador to Libya will never be forgotten.
Be safe with all that snow you all are supposed to get there fellow bloggers!!
Four and half inches and still coming down. I now have seven properties in which to shovel the parking lots, by hand. Snow removal man has a bad hydraulic pump for his plow. Oh, and I’m twenty miles from my 4x4s, so I get to go
drivingsledding in an Acura coupe. Gonna be a looooooong night.It doesn’t dampen my complete love for the snow, though. Everything is so clean and quiet out there.
Be safe, Gonzos! It’ll be over soon enough.
If I’m Lance Armstrong, I’m sending Te’o a bouquet of cake pops about now.
Normally I love snow, but my daughter and grandchildren were supposed to come down tomorrow for the long weekend, since they didn’t make it in for Christmas. Maybe she can make it in on Saturday.
J.M. White,
Be safe in driving and clearing snow. We get it frequently where I live. I have a snow blower in the garage. Fortunately, i’m only responsible for cleaning my driveway.
Ron@23.
Done..pajamas, lazy boy, season three of the The Wire. It would be silly to go anywhere or do anything except enjoy the aura of a copious amounts of snow.
The snow does make the bare trees beautiful.
Hmm, wonder why suzie hates this guy. Because he’s not Catholic? He IS quite religious, suzie.
And, suzie, it wasn’t just the NYT that was duped. Wonder why you wouild mention just them. Wonder why you didn’t mention that conservative outlets like Fox also fell for it. Why didn’t you mention that this major Catholic university didn’t tell the public the truth after they found out.
We’ll wait for your replies.
Thanks, Ron. Everything’s pretty good right now. Most people are staying off the roads and I have to say that they’ve done a good job with the roads (at least on the Tom’s Creek side of Blacksburg) so far. As luck would have it, my snow blower is in the same location as my 4x4s.
Debbie, I hope your daughter can make it in safely and on time. The sun is supposed to be shining tomorrow and be above freezing, so hopefully this will clear up relatively quickly.
There will be a beautiful opportunity to take some photos of snow-covered trees and such in the dawn hours. I have my camera ready and my coffee pot set!
Power out in my neighborhood for fourth time in just over six months.
As this is an open thread, what do folk think of this story?
http://tinyurl.com/b8orzyq
**
Deaf twins choose death over blindness
CNN|Added on January 16, 2013CNN’s Jonathan Mann reports on identical twins, already deaf, choosing death over blindness in Belgium.
[video]
**
Should we join Belgium?
FWIIW, I do.
No doubt the sportswriters should not have believed the college
Yeah, ND has had the reputation of being on the liberal side over the years. Stuff like allowing a big abortion guy (obama) to speak. But the fact that MSM wouldn’t even check basic facts of a story tells you how worthless they are. Same way they do with the administration’s “facts”. Just repeat them without questioning.
What is with you people and your stupid scenarios? If I knew the story as you present it Another Chuck, I would call for help then enter the room without any protection from the mad man with a gun (probably not even a gun he obtained illegally), and do whatever was in my power to stop him or mitigate the killing. I would not enter the other room and wait for the carnage to be heard and reacted to. Any more brilliant “choices” to offer decent people?
Frank, not knowing everything doesn’t seem to bother you, but why does anyone need proof of how someone else’s ignorant, insulting and threatening scenarios hit them? Is it not an insult if you don’t happen to get it? It is a quite common tactic among the gun nuts, race nuts, partisan nuts, and nuts of all stripes to not wish harm onto you and yours in a debate when you KNOW that is the opposite of what they mean. Dan, as well as Kristen, as well as myself have all had those “wishes” sent to us. Because someone thinks they are smart in the way they phrase the issue, or that they are only “funnin” does not make the implied threat any easier to take. It is simply boorish and people need to stop it.
Dave Hicks, I think we should allow people to choose death if that is their desire, yes. There is nothing noble about suffering, losing all you have worked so hard for and ending life in a vegetative state waiting for the end. Who are any of us to say what is enough burden, pain, suffering, loss, or humiliation for anyone else? Our “end of life” is sometimes quite barbaric and cruel.
My Directv is out. Bummer. I must say, I love the sound of VDOT snow plows on the job! Thanks folks!!
Another Chuck, this is merely just another hypothetical stunt 2A’ers are pushing. The obvious answer is B. Duh. The far more relevant question is how often does a scenario like the one you present occur? Not very often? Go figure…Your question makes about as much sense as asking someone if they’d like ice-cream for desert or a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Your post begs the question why in my 50 years of wondering God’s green earth has no one every demanded that I choose which room I want to go into with some cockamamie assortment of varying degrees of crazy armed people. AC, the sheer magnitude of the obtuseness of your query would be so utterly laughable if it wasn’t for the very real and quantifiable fact that whenever I’m out of town people keep trying to break into my house and looking under my bed, nightstand, underwear and sock drawer, closet, attic and freezer for my supply of guns and/or my rare collection of Gideon’s bibles (kidding about the bibles but I best be not taking your flawed sense of your sense of reality for granted).
On one hand I’m grateful your little fantasy didn’t involve Dan’s children, but you still failed epically in the relevancy department. How ‘bout you treat yourself to a do-over and concentrate on making a little sense this time? It’s not a timed quiz, AC; take all the time you need.
Actual headline, NO KIDDING: “Republicans gather at former plantation to discuss minority outreach.”
This is pretty much par for the course, eh?
Sandi Saunders @ 8:29 pm
Glad to see that we can still agree on somethings, Sandi.
Re: storm.
Last I checked 43% of the services in Pulaski county have no power.
http://tinyurl.com/cult4tp
In light of where the Republicans have decided to hold their strategy session, perhaps states like Virginia, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Florida, Texas and others below the Mason Dixon Line should try the impact of the debt ceiling in advance of the actual date of arrival. Might turn into a real reality check for them.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/before-default-let-republicans-bump-up-hard-against-the-debt-ceiling/
Re: Sandi Saunders @ 8:30 pm
Have you tried brushing the snow off the antenna transponder and parabolic dish?
Dave Hicks — January 17, 2013 @ 9:16 pm, #41: I like you Dave, I genuinely and despite our bitter battles do, but I cannot get around your support for weapons I do not believe the general public should have access too. Sandy Hook was my deciding line and I cannot bear to pay for the right to own an AR-15 style gun with the deaths of those babies. I simply cannot. I wish you could see that this is about anguish and sadness, not control and taking freedom. I get it that you cannot, but I wish you could.
It is not just that I cannot see a place for these weapons in the hands of the populace, though I can’t. I just cannot let go of the fact that mass shooters seem to favor them. That creeps me out in ways that only war museums and torture can.
Steve C, all of these horiffic acts are low percentage events. My point was that the outcome might be better if an armed good guy was in place. Without sheer magnitude of obtusity, please give me your insight on how banning assault weapons or limiting magazine size changes what happened in Newtown? Most of gun homicides are in the inner city and the choice of weapon is the illegal handgun. Black on black crime. Yet, no one will address this. Why?
No, I am not able to reach it without a ladder. But thanks for the tip.
LOL, well this is embarrassing but it seems the “outage” is only on one receiver. Works fine in other rooms…note to self… -Love Homer
Sorry, suzie, but your little scenario has nothing to do with Obama. Just more trolling by you.
RE: #40
Those GOTPer’s at Burwell Plantation should take some hints from the VCDL on minority outreach, because with all their chatter about how even massacre weapons are good for anyone, one presumes the VCDL isn’t just the overwhelmingly middle aged and older white men from America’s anger belt that the GOTP caucus is. But don’t take my word for it about VCDL diversity; look at Dan’s photos of last summer’s VCDL picnic, and judge for yourself. You’ll see both men and older men ranging from beige to tan who fear no gun seizin’ elites that they ain’t part of.
Whoever’s in charge of minority outreach for the VCDL, just like their blood drive coordinator, is doing a bang up job. As in, “MINORITY, OUT!” (REACH for skittles), BANG! Hands UP!
Re: “the fact that mass shooters seem to favor them”
From no less liberal site than Mother Jones: http://tinyurl.com/cgpfzsf
Mass Shooter’s weapons in the last 40 years were 35 so-called assault : 107 other.
Not trying to pick a fight, but that “fact” might need a bit of explanation not to look like cherry picking the data.
Debbie, should your daughter and grandchildren come in, by Sunday it looks like they’ll see the north face of the mountains white and the south face clear, which I always think looks kind of cool.
I think that universal background checks will be help “address it”, Another Chuck. we have got to stop the seemingly free flowing illegal gun vine.
Nothing can change Sandy Hook, but for a chance to change the one in our future, I am willing to accept my arsenal will never have a military style AR-15 with a 30 round magazine. I have “defended” my home for over 30 years without one and I am willing to risk it.
Is it the only arrow in our quiver? No, and I pray that is not all we do. But the fact that mass shooters seem to favor them bothers me a great deal.
Dan, re: 8:55
Have you become so myopic that you don’t even investigate your own posts?
Apparently obama and the d’s enjoy the same “plantation”…
I would expect that tomorrow you will have a “headline” thread on this (NOT)…
http://ochairball.blogspot.com/2009/02/house-democrats-on-retreat-at-kingsmill.html
http://www.uticaod.com/business/x84119058/Democrats-retreat-Serious-talks-luxurious-setting
or you might choose to ignore or edit out this post like you did my rebuttal of your abuse of me in a previous post you choose to use for your own advantage.
I imagine there is a power in what you allow your minions to read…. However, I question if they understand that they are your pawns…
I question if you will allow this to be read… I would not be surprised if you did not…
“Not trying to pick a fight, but that “fact” might need a bit of explanation not to look like cherry picking the data.”
comment by Dave Hicks, 9:46pm
So says the guy who just two days ago said it depends on which numbers one chooses to believe to decide whether guns take more American lives than they save.
“All depends on who’s numbers and/or definitions and/or assumptions you want to believe as to saving more American lives. As always YMMV. Again, yawn.” Comment by Dave Hicks — January 15, 2013 @ 1:54 pm
I know yawns are a sign of a brain that needs air, but such selective skepticism is breathtaking, simply breathtaking.
Sandi, I agree with the universal background checks. But, the truly insane and the criminal element will always find a way to get around “rules.”. The fact is, there are certain risks in a free society that cannot be legislated out. Sad but true. The question is what can be done. The answer is, almost nothing. The inner city murders are mostly with illegal weapons and the crazies will occasionally be crazy.
Re: Warren @ 10:01 pm
Yup! more often than not, it all depends on who’s numbers and/or definitions and/or assumptions you want to believe.
As always, YMMV.
I confess I dont get the “criminals will always _____in spite of the laws”. That identical argument could be made about every single law we have. Why not just get rid of the entire code of justice since – hey! Haterz gonna hate! – and let the chips fall as they may.
Obama was correct. Just because something’s hard and complicated and imperfect is no reason not to try.
Note how suzie seems to have no concern about the REAL girl connected with ND who’s dead. As I said, just more trolling.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/01/17/_notre_dame_scandals_why_is_manti_te_o_s_fake_girlfriend_lennay_kekua_more.html
AC @ 9:29,
You’re doing it wrong.
The outcome would have been far better if in fact we had common sense gun regulations 20 years ago in the first place that kept Bushmasters off the street instead of being at this sad point in history with knuckleheads carping and moaning about how we need access to weapons like these to protect ourselves. Kind of a “we can’t put the spilled milk back in the bottle” argument so we need to keep repeating this mindless escalation where nutjobs have weapons that allow them to shoot up movie theaters and elementary schools and consequently letting fools delude themselves that society is safer after twenty 2nd and 3rd graders get shot and killed.
On the other hand, the tool I carry every day, a Leatherman Skeletool, gets used about ten times a day in the course of my work. It’s been used to assist more people than every weapon owned by every gun owner in this blog ever will during the entire lifespan of those weapons. I’ve used it so much I had to order replacement bits for the screwdrivers. It will probably never kill another person but I did use it this week to turn on an oxygen canister. Try that with a gun.
Make no mistake about it, AC; me and my Leatherman are the “Good Guy” because I have a better far more useful tool than you do, I know how to use it and I very often do. Plus, I can go to a bar and have a beer with it and not get in any trouble. That’s not a hypothetical, AC; it’s a fact.
James Holmes – Smith and Wesson .223-caliber AR-15-type assault rifle equipped with a 100-round drum large capacity ammunition magazine
Adam Lanza – Bushmaster .223-caliber assault rifle equipped with a 30-round large capacity ammunition magazine
Eduardo Sencion – AK-47 type assault rifle equipped with a 30-round large capacity ammunition magazine
Robert Hawkins – WASR-10 semiautomatic assault rifle and two 30-round large capacity ammunition magazines.
Chai Vang – SKS 7.62mm semiautomatic assault rifle equipped with a 20-round large capacity ammunition magazine
http://www.nycrimecommission.org/initiative1-shootings.php
I could go on, and yes, I know that more carried semi-automatic handguns (many also with those popular 30 round magazines), but we cannot ban handguns and I assume that is not what you are proposing. Sure, slippery slope, why ban one and not the other? Because we can make the connections and there is no good reason not to.
Now, if you want to make the case for banning the most prevalent weapon, I am open to that discussion.
https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/conlaw/articles/volume10/issue3/Kozuskanich10U.Pa.J.Const.L.413(2008).pdf
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery#.UPXkRhEJ01R.facebook
Comment by Ron May — January 17, 2013 @ 2:05 pm
Your second link (I was unable to open the first) was a great read, Ron. I respect Thom Hartmann’s intellect, and his take on the 2A is interesting. If I get it correctly, he was saying the 2A was a bone thrown to southern states that essentially allowed the southern states to maintain and regulate militias for the sole purpose of insuring that slaves could not possess guns, thus compromising their ability to rise up against slave owners.
Fast forward to 2013. As I read posts from the staunchest 2A supporters who passionately proclaim that the 2A stands solely for their right to possess whatever weapons needed to protect themselves from rape and murder and to protect themselves from the impending tyranny of the federal government – a government headed by a black man – I am struck by the irony!
Again as this is an Open thread: http://tinyurl.com/ag6co96
**
Can Obama rely on Europe?
Plagued by deep domestic problems, Barack Obama would love to outsource many international issues to the EU in his second term. The problem is no one knows whether Europe is up to the task, writes Ivan Krastev.
Is the European Union willing and capable to preserve the current liberal European order at the moment when Russia has turned her back on the West, Turkey has lost hope of joining the EU and the European periphery lies in shambles?
And would the EU be America’s reliable partner outside Europe at a moment when Washington lacks the resources and the appetite to be the global policeman while the world is in constant turmoil?
These are probably the two critical questions that will define President Barack Obama’s European agenda during his second term.
Inward-looking nation
SNIP
Solid partner needed
SNIP
Looming British EU exit
SNIP
No grand strategy
The perspective of a transatlantic free-trade area is the only big idea that has remained in the portfolio. It appeals not only to the business community but also to all those who believe in the re-invention of the West. But while attractive in principle, it would be a nightmare if it ever came down to the renegotiation of the regulation regimes.
So what should Europeans and the EU expect from Barack Obama’s second term? Not much, I am afraid.
President Obama does not have a grand strategy for the EU. What he has instead are fears and hopes. And it will be the balance between fears and hopes that will determine his policies during his second term.
**
Good read.
Thoughts?
Are we ready to go it alone as the worldwide pick-up the bill / police force / savior / etc?
FWIIW, I hope not.
Another Chuck, we are still fighting “moonshiners” FGS, I am well aware that we will never stop it all or get all the illegal guns out of the wrong hands. But I do not see that as a reason not to try. We are working on a better future and we cannot keep these guns available for sale IMO.
Will that happen? IDK. The NRA and gun advocates are good at making us afraid and insisting their rights trump whatever public safety we feel we should try. I do not think the future will thank us if we fail here. I feel I am on the right side of history on this, win or lose. Like a lot of things in this nation, that matters to me.
I could go on, and yes, I know that more carried semi-automatic handguns (many also with those popular 30 round magazines), but we cannot ban handguns and I assume that is not what you are proposing. Sure, slippery slope, why ban one and not the other? Because we can make the connections and there is no good reason not to.
Now, if you want to make the case for banning the most prevalent weapon, I am open to that discussion.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 17, 2013 @ 10:24 pm
+1 Sandi, especially to your last sentence.
Re: Sandi Saunders @ 10:24 pm
I’ll pass on joining you in that pro-prohibition agenda.
.
.
I was just pointing out the apparent mistake that so-called assault weapons are mass shooters option of choice. I see that in print all over the place. Wonder why?
I think any smart General knows how to pick their battles.
I didn’t see Executive Order #14 discussed yesterday in the thread about the President’s intiatives re: gun violence:
“Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.”
I personally think this is significant. We may now get a reasoned look at the causes of gun violence and what can be done to prevent it – as best we can. There are no absolutes with prevention.
Jason Perdue — January 17, 2013 @ 10:30 pm, there is irony there no doubt.
Loved the Hartmann link, thanks Ron May!
“[T]hey will search that paper [the Constitution], and see if they have power of manumission,” said Henry. “And have they not, sir? Have they not power to provide for the general defence and welfare? May they not think that these call for the abolition of slavery? May they not pronounce all slaves free, and will they not be warranted by that power?
“This is no ambiguous implication or logical deduction. The paper speaks to the point: they have the power in clear, unequivocal terms, and will clearly and certainly exercise it.”
Dare we show our hubris again?
@Sandi: “I think that universal background checks will be help “address it””
I believe Virginia bill requiring that died today. Not positive, though.
Another Chuck:
“Most of gun homicides are in the inner city and the choice of weapon is the illegal handgun. Black on black crime. Yet, no one will address this. Why?”
Because it is easier for them to brand you and I a racist for merely mentioing it. This whole witch hunt of theirs is not about saving lives. It is about controling people and taking their guns. Period.
Yesterday’s killed bills: to require background checks on private sales, to ban guns in libraries, to reduce the number of courses that qualify for getting a CHP (Dan’s favorite), an assault weapon ban, and a ban on guns in vehicles on school property.
The bills were destroyed by unanimous, bi-partisan votes.
A win for freedom.
Jack:
“I believe Virginia bill requiring that [universal background checks] died today. Not positive, though.”
House version was recommended to be tabled. Senate version lurking in the courts of justice committee.
Bills to change the training requirement, ban guns in libraries, repeal the exemption for carrying in one’s vehicle on K-12 property, banning “assault firearms” and standard capacity magazines all went down by unanimous, bipartisan votes.
Most Virginians don’t want all of the crap getting rammed through in New York and at the federal level.
Jason,
I’ll try to find a link to the first article that works. As a historian it was more appealing to me than the Hartmann article.
Jason,
I hope you can open this link.
https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/conlaw/articles/volume10/issue3/Kozuskanich10U.Pa.J.Const.L.413(2008).pdf
Sorry that didn’t work either.
Ron, I appreciate the 2nd effort. I will use the link you provided to search the article on my own. Let you know what I think!
Yep, John. Until someone honestly admits that the bulk of gun crime is in by the inner city and the culture that surrounds it, the current discussions are basically worthless. As of now, the liberals and Obama are spitefully using a tragedy to push their anti-gun agenda. Nothing more, nothing less. If Obama was earnest in addressing gun crime he would start in his home town!
As a historian it was more appealing to me than the Hartmann article.
How do you get to be “a historian”? If Ron is, I guess I am, too. Of course the greatest historian of our age is Rush Limbaugh. He’s also the greatest journalist and the greatest intellectual.
I see Nate Silver has a new book, titled “The Signal and the Noise: Why So Many Predictions Fail — but Some Don’t”. The little bedwetter forgot to mention it’s easy to win when your side tells you about its widespread cheating operation, with hundreds of precincts in swing states giving obama a statistically impossible 99+ percent of the vote.
Hey Nate, if I use a two-headed coin, what’s the odds I’ll toss “heads”?
look at obamas hometown..why dont they use more gun control there, because IT DOESNT WORK!
As a historian it was more appealing to me than the Hartmann article.
How do you get to be “a historian”? If Ron is, I guess I am, too. Of course the greatest historian of our age is Rush Limbaugh. He’s also the greatest journalist and the greatest intellectual.
Comment by Suzie — January 18, 2013 @ 9:12 am
Suzie, I think the prime qualification to be a historian is a knowledge of history.
Although, in fairness, Suzie, it does appear you have the makings of a duobiography of Muhammed Ali and Rush Limbaugh! They did both proclaim themselves as “The Greatest!” Now that book would be “historical.”
“A win for freedom.”
A win for legislative cowardice.
Funny SuzieQ! Although I don’t seem to have seen any of Rush’s historical research published in journals in the field. Nor do I seem to find any hysterical books he may have written in the history section at Barnes & Noble. I’m really sorry for that spelling error.
suzie’s jealousy of Nate Silver knows no bounds. And notice how she’s reverting to silly juvenile cliched name calling and to worshipping Rush alongside Jesus. The real suzie re-emerging.
Funny SuzieQ!
Ron, my name is not SuzieQ. Please do not use that name anymore. I politely ask everyone to follow the same rules I have to follow, even if it is not enforced for others. Thanks.
Although I don’t seem to have seen any of Rush’s historical research published in journals in the field.
Rush has some good history lessons in each of his two bestselling books. I would wager a million times as many people have read Rush’s historical accounts than have read yours, Ron.
When did killed in committee become “destroyed by unanimous, bi-partisan votes” or a “win for freedom”? Other than when you agree with it, Jack?
Good point Another Chuck and John Wilburn, those teeming slums of Newtown, and Aurora have got to be addressed before we can move on to posh places where they only kill each other a few at a time. Never let it be said your finger isn’t on the pulse and ready with nothing.
Yeah Sandi,first, let’s focus on the small part of the problem in terms of statistical data….while ignoring the big picture problem which is illegal hand guns in large inner-city neighborhoods. Very Obama like approach! Similar to his penal taxing of the rich which solves .03% of the problem while 99.97% of our problem remains in place. Brilliant!
Why don’t you tell us your full name is then Suzie??? Maybe then we will address you by that name.
Rush’s books offer nothing useful in the way of a history lesson.
When did killed in committee become “destroyed by unanimous, bi-partisan votes”…
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 18, 2013 @ 11:07 am
When it was voted against unanimously by members of both parties… like I said.
SuzieQ, that’s a wager you would unfortunately win due to the overwelming number of uneducated people that listen to el tubbo.
The larger point is that he has a demonstrated track record of moving cases of $50 hotdawgs to illiterate half wits while being incapable of influencing events on a national level.
I don’t think that you get the issue here Another Chuck. Statistics are numbers in a record book. Mass shootings and especially the mass shooting of children are an act of terrorism. One on one or a few inner city violence is sadly the norm for that city, it is NOT the norm for this nation to have mass shootings and even worse, children. Statistics be damned, that ups the ante and the angst. It has to.
Yes, we have to start where we can be the most effective the quickest and that is removing these massive firepower, machismo weapons from easy legal availability. Could that mean special permits for those like Jack or others? I have no problem with that, but the availability of these guns for the next maniac for the foreseeable future is too much to ask society to stand for.
I get it that you all saw those children as props for Obama, but try to see them as we see them. As the children we know and love who are struggling with this horror and the fear it can happen again. Listen to their words. Hear their fear and their request for action. Do you REALLY believe your right to an AR-15 semi auto with a 30 round mag is going to EVER trump that? Not for me. Not for millions like me either.
In a civil society, there is no right without restriction.
Yeah Ron, follow the rules like John Wilburn does!
Why don’t you tell us your full name is then Suzie??? Maybe then we will address you by that name.
I don’t care to share my full name here, Ron. The name you may call me is “Suzie”.
I’d love a definition of “penal taxing”.
I get it that you all saw those children as props for Obama, but try to see them as we see them. As the children we know and love who are struggling with this horror and the fear it can happen again. Listen to their words. Hear their fear and their request for action. Do you REALLY believe your right to an AR-15 semi auto with a 30 round mag is going to EVER trump that? Not for me. Not for millions like me either.
In a civil society, there is no right without restriction.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 18, 2013 @ 12:42 pm
Lypocrisy. . .Obama (with your support and endorsement) used those kids as
props to further a sick liberal agenda to disarm United States law abiding citizens. Zip, zero, nada of the Executive Orders he suggested do anything to protect such children. This is not the first time he has used kids in this manner. . .remember Barack Obama. . .Umm…Umm…Umm!
You can cloak the sick liberal agenda in feigned compassion and concern but the lie shows through. Further, your logic is flawwed. What does my,
or anyone else’s, ownership of an AR-15, a 105mm Howitzer or a 30mm Chain Gun have to do with kids that POTUS utilizes to promote his falsified agenda. If the kids are fearful. . . it must be from the drones Obama controls or that we will all be under his thumb if America is disarmed.
I’m not going to shoot up a school and neither will John wilburn or others posting on Dan’s blog. I have a CCP which required a background check, finger printing and a gun safety course. If I want to own an AR-15 I should be able to. Sadly, the same damage could have been done in Newtown with a hand gun. To me, the proposed actions by Obama add another level go government control to law abiding citizens. This will not stop the crazies or the criminal. And Sandi, I do feel for all the children involved in Newtown.
Well Leon, I hate to tell you that you are also guilty of “Lypocrisy”.
Your specious claim that “a sick liberal agenda to disarm United States law abiding citizens” is afoot is pure invention.
Pardon us if your word on the efficacy of the proposals and directives Obama issued is insufficient. I am sure when not being an anonymous Obama hater, your brilliant analysis shines like new money, but no thank you.
You claim he “used kids”. Did Bush “use kids”? Did Reagan?
Unlike those who use the safety of anonymity to “cloak” themselves and their partisan agenda, I have never done either.
And BTW, it is also your logic that is flawed. I did not say your “ownership of an AR-15, a 105mm Howitzer or a 30mm Chain Gun” had anything to do with frightened school children writing to the President. Although, if they live near you, it might.
Another Chuck, I am going to assume all that CCP means “you are old enough for your wants not to hurt you”, as we say in the south.
Your specious claim that “a sick liberal agenda to disarm United States law abiding citizens” is afoot is pure invention.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 18, 2013 @ 1:53 pm
Wrong; look what just passed in NY…effectively bans all guns. Obama has
long been on record as wanting to ban all guns. Further, the cities in the U.S. with the strongest gun laws (and, incidently the highest violent crime rates) are LIBERAL. . .Chicago, Detriot, NYC, Washington, etc. All follow the sick liberal agenda and all have a horrendous problem with violent crime.
Liberals do not even care about their own kids. . .otherwise they would not threaten their future ability to defend themselves by pushing this gun control agenda now. A sick agenda because it does not address the problem of kids being murdered by nutcases. Liberal control the ultimate goal. . .which will cause all of our kids to suffer in the future.
Liberals vocalize they care. . .but it’s only words; no action. If you really care Sandi why are you screaming for disclosure on the Fast & Furious scandal? At least 15 teenagers attending a wedding were slaughtered in Mexico with weapons Obama and Holder allowed to walk accross the border. . .yet you are silent on the matter. Hypocrisy got your tongue?
“Ron, my name is not SuzieQ.”
Gee, your name isn’t suzie, either.
Frightened school children writing to the president…hmmm….wonder how many of those kiddies were urged by the libbie parents to send a whiny letter that they couldn’t possibly understand anything about
Leon, you are truly unbelievable.
Leon, every time you post these days you further expose your ignorance.
gdad:
“A win for legislative cowardice.”
No Sir. Legislative cowrdice is when those who agree with you don’t have the stones to carry a bill he believes in himself and polls show support for because he is afraid someone will use it to successfully demonize him later. Last year’s MPPS #3 was built on legislative cowardice. There are some other good ones, but I’ll stop at those…. We know a good bit about legislative cowrdice and it’s not what you think.
Kristen:
“I’d love a definition of “penal taxing”.
“Bend over and I’ll show you” – Chevy Chase as Clark Griswold, National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation 1989.
.
Leon:
“Wrong; look what just passed in NY…effectively bans all guns.”
Sadly, we already know it won’t do squat to save lives and so do the people who all but broke their necks to illegally shove the legislation through.
You have to laugh at them. They broke the laws of their own state to spit on the Constitution of their country. They made all their cops felons, instantly. They’ve already made it next to impossible to get a permit to carry in the first place; those privileged few who get the permit are quite likely to have a cleaner record than cops to have gotten the permit and certainly ought to be able to be trusted to carry whatever they choose. This law places those folks at a direct disadvantge against criminals who will continue to carry whatever they please.
They wiped themselves with their own constituents’ rights to buy votes from the foolish.
JohnW, ha!
#109 Gosh, why are gun worshippers’ posts getting more and more vulgar and threatening?
#108 John W, speak English. Until you do, as I said, legislative cowardice.
I’m telling you, Dan, I’m not sure what it is about the gun nuts and some of their recent posts, but it’s getting pretty ugly.
If I want to own an AR-15 I should be able to
comment by Another Chuck
AC, if you want your position in the above quote understood by others, you’ll need to give an example of a weapon you don’t think you should be able to own, and then explain why not. Or if you think any weapon should be allowed to anyone, say so. But that’s what’s needed for you to define your position clearly.
while ignoring the big picture problem which is illegal hand guns in large inner-city neighborhoods. Very Obama like approach! Similar to his penal taxing of the rich which solves .03% of the problem while 99.97% of our problem remains in place. Brilliant!
Comment by Another Chuck — January 18, 2013 @ 11:36 am
Once again you Talk about “illegal handguns in inner city neighborhoods”
and once again I ask you where do those guns come fro? And whjy is requiring background checks for ALL gun sales not considered a first step in cutting off that flow of guns, many of which come from the private sales of guns at gun shows in states like good old Va. and then resales for profit in those inner city neighborhoods, no questions asked. And why do the pro gunners like the NRA and VCDL oppose buybacks in those neighborhoods by the police and private groups when those guns are then melted down or destroyed and taken out of circulation. No, they want them RESOLD, put back in circulation to possibly find their way right back onto the streets.
How do you get to be “a historian”? If Ron is, I guess I am, too. Of course the greatest historian of our age is Rush Limbaugh. He’s also the greatest journalist and the greatest intellectual.
Comment by Suzie — January 18, 2013 @ 9:12 am
Wow! Suzie’s talent for comedy writing should earn her a spot on the writing staff of SNL or The Daily Show. I’ve been rolling in the floor laughing at this one since my power came back on and I was able to read it. This one should be Post of The Day for comedy.
wayne goodman;
“And why do the pro gunners like the NRA and VCDL oppose buybacks in those neighborhoods by the police and private groups when those guns are then melted down or destroyed and taken out of circulation. No, they want them RESOLD, put back in circulation to possibly find their way right back onto the streets.”
It is incredibly wasteful to use taxpayers’ money to buy guns and taxpayers’ money to destroy them. While new guns are being made and sold by dealers. You cannot justify this waste.
Anything to keep from acknowledging the inner city violence reality, huh wayne goodman?
Suzie: …my name is not SuzieQ. Please do not use that name anymore. I politely ask everyone to follow the same rules I have to follow, even if it is not enforced for others. Thanks.
The same rules that weren’t enforced when you called Nate Silver a “little bedwetter” in comment #80.
Thanks, JW, you make a very good case for a sales tax on gun dealer sales to fund gun buyback and destruction programs.
“Warren”:
“Thanks, JW, you make a very good case for a sales tax on gun dealer sales to fund gun buyback and destruction programs.”
gun dealers are already paying their share of taxes. I made the same case that the General Assembly used to decide that all guns gathered in municipality buy-backs in Virginia had to be offered to dealers first.
A far more intelligent solution than your nonsensical one-liner.
There’s a good case for a substantial excise tax on guns and ammo sales. Gun and ammo manufacturers haven’t been close to paying for the costs that their products force everyone else to absorb. It’s also why the gun industrial complex, through the NRA, tries to smother intellectually honest public health studies of gun violence. Like the tobacco industry or sprawl developers, gun and ammo makers’ business model has depended on not bearing any responsibility for the true costs of their creations.
Also pertinent here is Mike Scott’s fine explanation earlier today of the way that car makers were forced to evolve to make safer cars, and thus a safer world, and can still sell millions of cars.
“Warren”:
“Also pertinent here is Mike Scott’s fine explanation earlier today of the way that car makers were forced to evolve to make safer cars, and thus a safer world, and can still sell millions of cars.”
Gun makers have made safer guns than ever. Sears that are designed not to allow accidental discharges, triple internal drop safeties on most all polymer frame handguns, holsters have evolved to cover trigger guards and now emply as many as three retention devices, the grip safety is another external safety to add redundancy to those handguns which use external safeties. The gun makers have spent a good bit developing safes and biometric readers to prevent unauthorized access to guns. Even the improved grips on guns which are often demonized because they are sometimes considered to be “military styled” make the guns safer because they are more controllable and easier to keep from sliding out of one’s hands.
Before you make your umpteenth intended use argument, please know that five star crash rated cars and two star crash rated cars are equally lethal when running someone over! Criminal misuse throws all of it out the window for both cars and guns.
#123: Criminal misuse throws all of it out the window for both cars and guns.
comment by JW
Nope, wrong again. Criminal WHOLESALE misuse leaves the intended use argument intact. But feel free to try to name as many large scale massacres accomplished with a single car as with a single AR-15 ?
“Warren”:
“…feel free to try to name as many large scale massacres accomplished with a single car as with a single AR-15 ?”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30495873…d_news-europe/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/01/18/syria-fighting-bomb/1844531/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/17/iraq-car-bombs-shia-muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/26/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1843328,00.html
Wow, this is even easier than I thought it would be. Shall I continue?
Pammala, I fixed your post for you;
Frightened school children writing to the president…hmmm….I wonder how many of those third graders were urged by their educated liberal parents to send a well written and grammatically correct letter that couldn’t possibly ever be mistaken for the virtual train wrecks I conjure up and then embarrass myself with by posting on Dan’s blog.
Comment by pammala — January 18, 2013 @ 2:59 pm
I guess where pammalala lives, kids have to be 14 or15 before they figure out that they don’t want to be massacred in school.
#125 Of course the cause of death in those attacks was not a vehicle, John W (at least not in he the four I read). Heck, in one of them, the guy used a shot from a GUN to set off the bomb inside the vehicle.
Could you at least try be a tiny bit honest when you post? We’d appreciate it.
Of course the shot to set off the bomb was in the days before remote control was prevalent. The gun was used as a transmitter to detonate impact explosives to set off the main charge.
The cars were used to kill.
The same rules that weren’t enforced when you called Nate Silver a “little bedwetter” in comment #80.
“Little bedwetter” is not a name, it’s two adjectives. Adjectives are not prohibited, but the alteration of one’s name was expressly prohibited by the rules, that is unless a liberal does it to a conservative’s name.
But I politely appealed to Ron’s sense of decency to follow the rule, even though it is not enforced for liberals.
Try to be honest, John W, the explosives were used to kill.
So now “bedwetter” is an adjective! Who knew? Suze is quite the grammarian.
Nope wrong again, John Wilburn, and desparately dishonest as well.
You had to resort to cars used as a space for explosives, which is not what they’re built for. But guns ARE built to shoot things, and unless you want to include assaults by bludgeoning with a gun the honest comparison is cars used as locomotive devices vs. guns as shooting devices.
But given that you didn’t realize that “more important” and “more threatened” aren’t at all synonymous, it’s not surprising you’d use a invalid comparable. FYI, accurate appraisal requires accurate comparables. Good luck keeping real estate clients as ignorant of that fact as the intended audience for the NRA’s Obama family ad is that important and threatened aren’t synonyms.
Wow, that was as easy as John Wilburn’s track record indicated it’d be.
“Warren”:
“Good luck keeping real estate clients as ignorant of that fact as the intended audience for the NRA’s Obama family ad is that important and threatened aren’t synonyms.”
And this ugly personal garbage is why I don’t want to meet this loser, Steve C.
Anything to keep from acknowledging the inner city violence reality, huh wayne goodman?
Comment by John Wilburn — January 18, 2013 @ 7:05 pm
Oh I absolutely acknowledge the “reality” of inner city gun violence. The inner cities are awash in guns in the hands of gangbangers and drug dealers. And states like Va.with its lax gun laws contribute mightily to the p;roblem by helping flood those areas with illegal guns from strawmen purchasers.
Then why don’t Virignia’s inner cities have as much crime as inner cities in states with more gun control? Perhaps it’s because here the good people get to shoot back.
“I politely appealed…”
You wouldn’t know polite if it bit you in the rump. I’ll bet you were a hall monitor in elementary school, “OOhhh, Mrs. Choksondik, Billy farted…!!!”
Really, JohnW? Because Richmond has the 7th highest rate of gun violence in the country.
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gun-violence/4171/
Lowest? NYC and Hartford.
“Then why don’t Virignia’s inner cities have as much crime as inner cities in states with more gun control? Perhaps it’s because here the good people get to shoot back.”
–Comment by John Wilburn
JW, I get that you badly desire to equate more guns with less crime. As much as I personally like you, and admire the passion you have for something you believe in, I almost wish it could be, for your sake. But more guns doesn’t necessarily equally less crime, or less violent crime, or fewer murders, rape or aggravated assautls. And more gun control doesn’t necessarily equate to more of those things either.
Let’s simply compare two states: New York, which had significant gun control before they strengthened it this week, and Arizona, which is more or less gun-control free.
New York 2011
Homicide rate: 4.0
Forcible rape rate: 14.1
Aggravated assault rate: 234.1
Overall violent crime rate: 398.1
Arizona 2011
Homicide rate: 6.2
Forcible rape rate: 35.9
Aggravated assault rate: 254.8
Overall violent crime rate 405.9
Let’s dispute Virginia by comparing New York and Mexican drug import border state Arizona!
Got it!
John there are always going to be differences, state to state in terms of geography and other factors. Here’s another between Arizona and New York: the home firearm ownership rate. In New York, it’s 18.0. In Arizona, it’s 31.1.
And you’re more likely to get murdered, raped or assaulted in Arizona.
138.Let’s dispute Virginia by comparing New York and Mexican drug import border state Arizona!
Got it!
Comment by John Wilburn — January 19, 2013 @ 10:29 pm
Ding…Ding…Ding! Winner, Winner…Chicken Dinner!
JohnW, your blanket “inner cities” made-up factoid is wrong. Just admit it. Unless you want to compare Virginia’s “inner cities” to inner cities on the Arctic Circle.
Just admit you made it up and are wrong.
How do they compare demographically, Dan?
Still have yet to hear of an armed woman being raped….. Just sayin’.
Suzie: “Little bedwetter” is not a name, it’s two adjectives.
I have a feeling Dan Casey gives more leeway to people who respect the rules a code of conduct rather than a tool to punish any perceived offender. You view the blog’s new rules as the latter, willing to bludgeon anyone with THE RULES THE RULES THE TINTINNABULATION OF THE RULES if you think someone’s getting away with something you can’t do yourself. I view the new rules as the former: be respectful and receive in kind–be disrespectful and expect nothing of the sort. Your choice of words and willingness to split hairs over their usage (and as long as we’re splitting hairs, it’s an adjective modifying a noun) shows that you expect courtesy you are unwilling–or unable–to give to others.
And as we both post here under pseudonyms, we have no leg to stand on when fussing at others when they choose not to use our proper chosen monickers.
JW:”why don’t Virginia’s inner cities have as much crime as inner cities in states with more gun control? Perhaps it’s because here the good people get to shoot back”
Kristen: “Richmond has the 7th highest rate of gun violence in the country. Lowest? NYC and Hartford.”
JW pwned.
Kristen, this is why my request for demographic fell on deaf ears and you know it. Blacks in inner cities are slaughtering one another. That’s a fact. Whites in inner cities are not. Help the black people who are 75% of both the victims and perpetrators of inner city firearm death and leave the lawful gun owners alone.
I’ll be in Richmond tomorrow around at least 1,000 guns on the same block and bet it will be the lowest crime area in that city by far.
Dan,
I neither do correlation as proof of causation nor cherry-picking.
However, as always YMMV.
FWIIW, I think that is is interesting that the Brady bunch’s ranking of States’ gun-control laws does not correlate (either neg or pos) with the DOJ crime stats for the States.
IMHO, that lack of correlation is highly suggestive that there are far more causative factors than prohibition / regulation levels. If “more guns doesn’t necessarily equally less crime” it appears that a case can be made that “more gun-control doesn’t necessarily equally less crime” either.
IMHO, folk tend to see what they want to see in such comparisons. With apologies to Isaac Asimov, I suspect that like in science, when one is looking at data the understanding does not follow, “the exciting words ‘Eureka I have found it’” — but rather “that’s odd.”
So, a an INTJ, I “apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion “Does it work?” to everything from [my] own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.” — http://typelogic.com/intj.html
As a small “l” libertarian I don’t agree with limiting freedom with restrictions that don’t appear to work.
Again, as always YMMV.
“Still have yet to hear of an armed woman being raped….. Just sayin’.”
Pretty astounding. John W knows about every rape case everywherie out there. Tell you what, John W, get back to us after you check every military rape case.
#134 @9:05pm:
And who tried to use highly inaccurate comparables?
And who didn’t respond to that fact when called on it?
And once again the 1A is potent where gun skills are useless.
145:
Still have yet to hear of a grown man not in prison being raped in SWVA…Just sayin’.
Buried in Kristen’s link:
“Race, unfortunately and tragically, factors into gun death at the metro level. The share of the population that is black is positively related to both the overall rate of gun death (.56) and even more so with gun-related homicides (.72).”
“Warren”:
“And who didn’t respond to that fact when called on it?”
But I did. Some of those were cars running people over and used to drown people. A higher percentage of my links were cars used to kill without explosives than the percentage of AR-15s used in homicides. I’m just sick of conversing with you, frankly.
“Warren”:
That was my fault for being politically correct and avoiding the racial element of black-on-black slaughter which many here do not want to acknowledge. Inner city is a stupid way to dance the point, but I won’t going forward. Another Chuck was berated for it, but he was right. His 80% number made me curious. The numbers I’ve seen are still around 75%. That can’t reasonably be ignored.
We know how the leftists will respond, unfortunately.
“Warren”:
“Still have yet to hear of a grown man not in prison being raped in SWVA…Just sayin’.”
So you think it is viable for women to carry guns, right?
Of course women can carry guns; report back to us what percentage of the gun huggers in Richmond Sunday are women, okay?
JW,
Here are some more crime stats you might say you cannot compare. California vs. Arizona. They are both on our border with Mexico (California has the busiest, by far, border crossing point in the country).
Bonus: they’re ADJOINING STATES.
Of course, California has many more people, and many more “inner cities” as you’ve put it, a much higher percentage of black residents, and much more coastline and redwoods and many more LSD labs, too. So maybe you cannot compare them, eh?
Oh yeah — and California is a so-called “gun control” state!
Arizona 2011
Homicide rate: 6.2
Forcible rape rate: 35.9
Aggravated assault rate: 254.8
California 2011
Homicide rate: 4.8
Forcible rape rate: 20.3
Aggravated assault rate: 242.0
JohnW, your obsession with rape is bizarre. And just because you haven’t heard of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
And your made- up factoid was wrong. Just admit it without launching into yet another rape riff.
Oops, looks like John W had to shut up about that whole rape thing.
Nah. We’re just in Richmond for Lobby Day and as a team leader, John is pretty busy.
Well, Jack, let’s just say that John W is better off having shut up about the rape thing, whether it was voluntary or not.
Can we finally, once and for all, put this lying sack of BS about “liberty” and “freedom” in the sink hole where it belongs? I am past sick of Dave Hicks, John Wilburn, Jack and P. Van Cleave pretending that their “lobby” efforts are about “rights” and “liberty” and “freedom”. That is pure BS and backed by nothing. You brag about going to Richmond or DC or calling your Congress critter over GUNS. Nothing else, nothing more, nothing. Nothing.
The time to go to Richmond, DC or a Congress critter was fighting “The Patriot Act”. Name the times you have urged “lobby day” on the ever intrusive acts of “law enforcement” and those “fighting terrorists” from 2001 thru 2008. Sure it is easy to beat up on Obama for the same things you previously ignored, but let’s get real. The boat has sailed.
Your claims to be fighting for rights, liberty and freedom are just plain BS. You are fighting for your guns because in small little minds they compensate for all else that has been lost. Lost to the bad guys and to the good guys, but lost nonetheless. As Bill Maher said so eloquently, “You see, the Redcoats — they never wanted your gun. They wanted your liberty. And that’s why the Founding Fathers said you could have the gun, dumbass! And now the only right we have left is the guns, and nothing left to use the guns to protect! We’re like a strip club with a million bouncers and no strippers!”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/19/maher-its-not-your-second-amendment-rights-that-are-under-attack-its-all-the-other-ones/
162. Sandy, right on! Of course, for some on this site, the objective is to protect their livelyhood. You certainly expect them to support their pocketbooks.
I’m not a huge Bill Maher fan but he has this one down exactly.
Sandi #162: PLUS ONE!!!