Thursday’s column: How much can City Market merchants endure?
Patriarca12 | Wikimedia Commons
First there came the Roanoke City Market Building project, a multimillion dollar rehab of the market area’s jewel. While it was underway, the market area was a mess.
Depending on your perspective, that either vastly improved the aging food court or it robbed the place of its character and soul. It pushed out some longtime and popular tenants, but now we have some new (and good) ones.
During that came an underground gas lines upgrade. That discouraged even more foot and car traffic for awhile, adding greater hiccups and stress to Market Area businesses and vendors.
Next came the Center in the Square project. That building has been mostly empty since 2011, and the work there has pushed around a bunch of the market’s indoor and outdoor tenants. It should be done by May.
With all they’ve had to put up with in recent years, the business folk who rely on the market for their livelihoods have been eagerly awaiting the end to 2-1/2 years of disruptions. But they’re finding out finality can be an elusive thing.
Now another project’s on the horizon, with a new scope and schedule that will exacerbate the disruptions and drag the work out for even longer, during spring and early summer, their high season.
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
January 24, 2013 - 6:00 AM
I could not agree more! And don’t forget the possible hotel at the end of Market street. At this stage, it would be great for everyone, customers and vendors, to get a bit of a break from the disruption. I simply don’t understand why they don’t push this off until next year. With Elmwood Park shutdown, the vendors are already going to feel the pain as all of those events move elsewhere. Enough already.
I feel for all these venders. Let them get up and running before another interuption. As for the market building redux… it just does not have the vibe it once did inside, however outside around the building with it’s sidewalk dining is great!!
This just reads of really poor planning. Other localities block out times that construction can and cannot occur, to avoid impacts to various festivals, prime business seasons, known special events, etc. And if something happens that delays the construction schedule and pushes it into a timeframe where it impacts something, the constractors are told to wait until the next available window. Not always, but I’ve seen it done enough to know that it has been, and can be, done.
typical government project!
In my naive, opinion there seems to be a simple solution which would be interesting to hear from the city as to why this would not be possible.
The original plans called for starting in January and hoping to have the worst disruption done by March. Now it won’t start till March. Well, why does it have to start this March?….Give the vendors a break and wait till next January 1, 2014 to start the project….Seems like it would benefit everyone all around.
Craig,
They gave way to much sidewalk space to the restaurants….Sidewalks are just that….for walking….most areas where they have outdoor dining, often a wheel chair can hardly squeeze through, let alone couples walking side by side. Don’t get me wrong….I like it but like most everything the city does, can’t seem to get it right….Like the over all spending millions upon million all around downtown, and go down any evening or afternoon and see the trash and garbage piled outside waiting to be picked up…..What kind of impression does this leave on visitors?
E Duane and OJ,
There is a planning issue here. The project was kind of an afterthought, that came up last summer. It’s not part of the city capital spending spending plan, the original conception did not include the underground upgrades (which are necessary. About $245,000 of the funding is coming from a grant DRI received that it must spend, or lose, by the end of September.
So yes, the planning was far less than ideal. And the timing of the expiration of the grant is driving the time frame.
One of the many costs that businesses try to plan for but are often out of their control. I see it in other locals as well and indeed some businesses do not survive. Hopefully the City will be as accomodating as possible and recognise that if not for these businesses, there would be no reason to have the Market.
I agree with comments by Other John. Also, if the City of Roanoke is involved, you can bet that money will be wasted the City doesn’t have. The City most always messes up anything in which it has a hand!
And since this is about the Market and downtown…..Have you ever had the pleasure of watching a dog stop on the sidewalks to take a nice huge dump?….The city is promoting downtown living and downtown living brings dogs….I have been after the city to have a small fenced in dog park downtown….but since most of the land in Elmwood Park has now gone for an amphitheater don’t know where they could do this? I hope the new hamburger joint taking over the Ernie’s location will have an affordable hamburgers….$9.00 for the only hamburger in the Market Bldg. is simple out of reach for most tourist and residents visiting the Market.
I like the look and the feel of the outdoor dining. But I’d feel a lot better about it if there were more people sitting at those outdoor tables.
“About $245,000 of the funding is coming from a grant DRI received that it must spend, or lose, by the end of September.”
There has to be a way to push this back. Can the city talk to DRI about extending the time frame? It’s best for everyone to push this back. Since DRI has an interest in a strong downtown, it seems like a deal could be done.
I remember going to Tavern on the Market pretty often and every outdoor table was full, not to mention the over-crowded indoors.
Then the architects came, and we didn’t stop them.
I can understand the problems of needing to allocate/utilize grant funding before various deadlines, sometimes those can be squirrely. Still stinks though that the timing of yet another round of impactful work is going to hurt the folks trying to make their businesses thrive, or even to this point simply survive. Many of those kinds of perils are why my wife closed her storefront business a couple years ago, and is now working to develop a new business with an online-only storefront. Very little overhead, broader reach, better margins…plus problems with parking, fickle locals, and other stuff won’t impact her profitability.
“I remember going to Tavern on the Market pretty often and every outdoor table was full, not to mention the over-crowded indoors.
Then the architects came, and we didn’t stop them.”
–Comment by Scott
Scott, a good point. But . . . I wonder if seeing the outdoor business at ToG encouraged the architects to put outdoor dining around the whole place? There aren’t many more outdoor diners now — but they’re spread out all the way around the building.
I really miss Zorba’s being there, that drew me to the market. I noticed that NY Subs is now offering gyros on their menu. Has anyone tried a gyro from there? How was it?
The Cuban restaurant was a great addition to the market, though. They have fantastic food.
EDH, Martins has outstanding burgers in your price range. They also do 1/2 price burgers on Mondays. Highly recommended.
I love sitting outside, it’s just not as nice when you’re up against a road or a parking lot, or being jostled by pedestrians. Hopefully the added space of the plaza will open up more room for tables.
I have eaten at Jack Browns in Harrisonburg several times. Great burgers and an even better artisan beer collection. They speccialize in wagyu (sp?) beef.
I always ate at the Cuban place but I haven’t been to the Market since the remodel. I remember Roanoke as being the most downtown friendly place within hours, with the exception of Floyd.
AC, that place is in talks with Ernies downtown to take over that spot.
AC, I take that back. It’s a done deal.
Dan, no doubt about the outdoor seating. I love love loved sitting out on the market, watching the passers-by on friday and saturday nights. it was more entertaining than just about anything else to do in Roanoke.
In my opinion, the heart of the problem was the poor planning on renovations, and the turnover of tenants. I have been going to that Market Building for food since I was a teenager, but there really is nothing in there I’m interested in anymore, so when I come to town, I grab a burger at Martin’s or head over to Blues BBQ, Alejandros, or some sushi.
I do miss Zorba’s gyros…. I know I can still get them, but it still doesn’t feel the same as all under one roof.
I am fairly certain they could have renovated a different way that would have kept everyone in there with minimal downtime. It may have cost a little more, but probably not as much as the lost revenues and having to redesign things (such as pulling out the useless center-court stalls).
Henry,
New owners, new menu, gorgeous decor — it’s a very different Cuban place now. The fried pork chunks (the translation sounds less than appetizing, but trust me) are amazing.
Here’s a picture of a lunch I had there back in July.
Weird Dan, I’m sitting here now and that’s exactly what I ordered, with casava and bean soup.
Steve C, Thank you very much for the tip…..It will be my next eating out plans for next Monday evening…
Dan, I’ve tried the gyro at NY Subs, it was good.
Scott, have you tried the food at Firefly Fare? Everything I’ve had there is excellent. I haven’t tried their crabcakes, due to allergies, so I can’t speak for how they are, but everything else is very good. I love their lamb meatloaf. Grilled veggies are great too.
Much of this upheaval is created by stunningly tone-deaf planning. Now this newest, which is sure to cause havoc for these local merchants… before, shuffling an institution like the Roanoke Weiner Stand from its former landmark site to a narrow little wedge devoid of personality, so it could be replaced by… a ticket office. My fear is that the visions of hundreds of thousands of visitors is grossly overestimated, and Roanoke will have blown up one of its best-loved districts for nothing. I hope I’m wrong.
Kristen, thanks for the update. I think we will all enjoy Jack Browns bugers!
The Roanoke Wiener Stand will survive or fall based on its good, not on the fact that it moved a few feet. Personally, I’ve never thought much at all of their hot dogs.
If you haven’t tried them since their forced relocation….Burger in the squre is still very good for its value….Located on Brambelton.
How about instead of complaining about something we can’t change, such as the never ending construction downtown, we need to just suck it up and support the local businesses that are trying to make it work. So what if the city takes away some free parking spaces, there are still plenty more, you just have to be willing to walk a few extra blocks. I work downtown and live within walking distance and love that we have such a unique treasure with our market area. Eventually the construction will be done and the downtown area will embrace the changes. Right now we just need to keep focused on patronizing the current local businesses to make sure we don’t lose anymore !!
Well, now I am MAD!! I am tired of this city’s leaders poor planning concerning the market area and would like to see a group of citizens meet and talk about an approach to “the masters that be”, trying for a reasonable approach, which to me, seems they can put off this new project, even pushing back the date to ‘near the end of September’ so as not to loose the DRI grant. Give the vendors back their important spring season!
I don’t know about you, but the Market Area is my very favorite part of this whole wonderful valley. This is one issue we need to get behind and help the market vendors and businesses.
We don’t any business downtown to suffer while the city makes the center city a great destination. What is happening downtown is great. You must rip down to build up. I hope the shops make it,because downtown Roanoke is going to be awesome soon. It will bring lots of people downtown and travelers will want to come back.
Excellent column Dan! I hope people heed your advice. I think the City owes it to the vendors to find a temporary place for them to set up and have their “season” and they owe it to the businesses who will have to live with the disruption to work for some “rent relief” type of effort as well as ways to access those businesses on Saturdays or evenings when “work” is closed. This is a real hardship on the heels of others and the City and the community does owe it to these businesses to work with and support them.
Maybe the City IT folks could help some of them set up “virtual” shopping sites too?
Well said Dan!
Hans, it’s not magic. The way to keep the vendors open and not suffering is to keep patronizing them. Even if you can’t park right outside, for free. Long term what’s happening will make downtown more attractive, but just wishing and hoping and praying wont keep the doors open down there.
>em>”…The city is promoting downtown living…”
IMHO, this says it all. Why have all those dirty vegetables when we can replace them with “The Lofts on the City Market.” Remember, the Market Building project was supposed to be “minimal interference” for the vendors, too. How’d that turn out?
This comment to E. Duane Howard; there is a perfect little park near the police station, for your idea of a dumping park for the doggies.
Peggy,
If my memory serves me correctly, all the money that was put into that park was not that it was to be permanent, because the city plans to build on that site eventually. This was of course years ago under Darlene Burcham and as we know, things do change with each council.
Many agree its all about supporting the vendors…..As for the Market Bldg. itself, many, myself included would drive downtown just to eat at the Market Bldg……Because of the high rent, their limited space for doing businesses their prices so high, and even less parking at the door, who would drive there for what food vendor at that price? Just does not make sense. If you check the city Health Dept. Food Inspections on the vendors, its most revealing of the problems they are having doing bussiness there. Like so many I love the Market area and go down their all the time….I think some just can’t grasp the reality of this.
The sad thing…the last time I was in downtown during a weekday at lunch, with several locals and some out-of-town folks…the locals chose to eat at Macado’s, rather than the Market. The out-of-town folks asked about the market, because they’d heard about it, and the local response was one of those ‘Yeah, but…’ answers…
The way to keep the vendors open and not suffering is to keep patronizing them. Even if you can’t park right outside, for free.
I like parking in the garage near the Taubman. It’s rarely crowded over there and it’s free on the weekend in the daytime.
Good lord, OJ, Macado’s isn’t bad, but there are better places to eat.
I am a 70 year old retired pharmacist. My father taught me to hunt and fish. We ate everything we caught or killed. I inherited his deer rifle and shotgun. I do not consider myself a gun nut. My concealed carry permit was not purchased it was earned. I consider it irresponsible to go unarmed in today’s society.
Regards,
Allen Butterfield
Wouldn’t you know it! The market is going to lose the parking spaces that I have depended on in my “old age”! Walking a few extra blocks (#31 above) is not so easy for everyone. Tell a handicapped person to just suck it up! I can drive in and out of the market area most days without having to whip the block too many times. I understand the market concept – it’s just going to leave me out. I cannot shop there if I have to park blocks away and it makes me sad.
Yeah gdad, it took me by surprise. Generally, in the past anyway, a trip to downtown Roanoke on a weekday entailed lunch at the Market building. But now it seems that is a rarity because they people who choose pick somewhere else.
“I consider it irresponsible to go unarmed in today’s society.”
One of the most idiotic lines ever from gun toters. I don’t carry a gun and never have. And I am not irresponsible.
The heart of the market area are people and vendors, enjoying a market atmosphere, produce, plants, sum of dis and sum of dat. What makes the Market special? Our attachment to it…and the stories and the memories of time well spent roaming the limited spaces, brushing up against other Roanokers we may often see, or seldom see. We purchase as a way to share the wealth and respect the efforts of farmers and growers, yes, and even handbag artists.
I am an artist at the Market Gallery. The renovation lag at 202 Market ruined things for us. Remember up the stairs and 12 studios and great art? Traffic on that side of the street disappeared as Kipp and Calhoun will agree. So we moved up Wall St, and have endured construction ever since. We celebrated ten years of business this Fall.
We are hanging on for the long haul, but I wrote the City Manager that their “essential constructions” are ruining one of the best things about Roanoke. Some things you can”t replace. Burger in the Square is out on Brambleton, and it’s not a bad drive. And, there is still a line out the door. Someday soon, they will be looking at a lot of vacancies, and the people living downtown, will take off, as the heart of the city has been prettified out of existence. The decision makers probably consider all these comments as just the usual complaints about change. Recognizing the truth is subtle, and takes a listening ear that is attached to its heart.
Steve C:
“EDH, Martins has outstanding burgers in your price range. They also do 1/2 price burgers on Mondays. Highly recommended.”
Sharkey’s in Blacksburg has buy one, get one free burgers on Mondays and they are delicious. Steve C, if you’ll be in Blacksburg some time, Monday or not, I’ll gladly treat you to one.
.
Butterfield can’t even get his post on the right thread. So exciting to know he’s blundering around armed.
John W,
I’ll be moving back to the valley full time in a month or so. Lets do both.
Great column !
__________
Duane Howard wrote – “..$9.00 for the only hamburger in the Market Bldg. is simple out of reach for most tourist and residents visiting the Market.
Comment by E. Duane Howard — January 24, 2013 @ 9:33 am
That comment could be inaccurate or misleading. Where did you get your hamburger Duane ? You didnt say.
I saw no 9$ hamburger by itself in the Market Building.
Our’s was fairly less than that from All-Sports Cafe and included the drink and fries. Thanks
Please tell me that Ernie’s on the market has not gone out of business! I read today in the paper that a bar is opening in the spring “in the old Ernie’s location”. This is awful!!! I hope it has moved. If so, can you tell me where?