Behind the wheel on the Wednesday OPEN thread
Shot by Dan in Vinton
“He who puts out his hand to stop the wheel of history will have his fingers crushed.”
Lech Walesa
February 13, 2013 - 10:00 AM
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February 13, 2013 - 10:00 AM
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Tuesday, June 18, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
$7.25
The current federal minimum wage.
$10.58
What the minimum wage would be if it had kept up with inflation over the last 40 years. Reference here
As with most everything, this is another partisan argument. I have Facebook friends who are totally against raising the minimum wage. Their main argument is it will hurt small businesses and the economy. Others say that raising the wage would put more money in people’s pockets and hence they would turn around and spend it. I have done some reading and there are reasonable arguments for both sides.
Economics aside, I would wager that most (if not all) of those people opposed to raising the wage are not living on it.
I won’t be surprised when someone calls the minimum wage an entitlement.
How many remember the group being banned from their quiet demonstration along curbside at the Market Bldg? The issue being because the City through out the baby with the bath water when it pretty much gave away the building and its rights….Most of us agree, you can’t give away a public sidewalk, and the Market Bldg. claims the sidewalks to their building as “Private”
Yesterday, Management came out and wanted to chase away a T.V. reporter doing on Street interviews. The reporter was somewhat aghast when told it was a private sidewalk…..Since I was the “interviewee” I can attest to this most despicable situation.
Imagine if I happen to be a businessman or tourist? I would leave Roanoke with the belief this what an unfriendly place, being chased off a public sidewalk. If they would do this to a T.V. reporter, we have no idea how many more times in the course of a week or month this might be happening. People stop on public sidewalks to pass out fliers and who knows what. The most historic landmark in downtown Roanoke where the city puts all its eggs in one basket, the most walk upon turf in downtown Roanoke and people are being chased off the sidewalk….Sorry folks….Only in Roanoke, VA. City Administration should simply be ashamed of themselves….Should they not?
Newman’s point raises an interesting one.
Implicit in the tired old truism that “raising the minimum wage will hurt small businesses and the economy” is: rather than “hurt” small businesses, we should continue to “hurt” millions of American workers who have economically suffered because Congress has neglected raising it over the years to keep up with inflation.
What’s actually happened is, those businesses have profited at the expense of “hurting” their minimum wage employees. Not only to they wish to keep profiting at their minimum-wage employees’ expense, any have called for it to be abolished, so they can “hurt” their low-wage employees even more — and profit even more.
Higher artificial wage = few jobs. Just what we need now.
Get the government out and let worker and employee agree on the wage.
As has been my practice for the years I have served here I have a monthly breakfast with some of the retired nuns who live on the grounds of the Ministry Center. This morning I sat next to Sr. Mary who spent her life as a Poor Handmaid teaching in and leading Catholic schools.
Toward the end of her career the school she led was faced with a unique problem. A number of 12-year-old girls were beginning to use lipstick and would put it on in the bathroom. That was fine provided it was of a natural or neutral skin tone, but after they put on their lipstick, they would press their lips to the mirror leaving dozens of little lip prints.
Every night the maintenance man would remove them; and the next day the girls would put them back. Finally, the principal, Sr. Mary, decided that something had to be done. She called all the girls to the bathroom and met them there with the maintenance man. She explained that all these lip prints were causing a major problem for the custodian, who had to clean the mirrors every night (you can just imagine the yawns from the little princesses).
To demonstrate how difficult it had been to clean the mirrors, Sister Mary asked the maintenance man to show the girls how much effort was required. He took out a long-handled squeegee, dipped it in the toilet, and cleaned the mirror with it.
There were no lip prints on the mirror after that.
There are teachers…… And then there are educators!
We need a few more Sr. Mary’s in our schools today.
“Get the government out and let worker and employee agree on the wage.”
Oh, so now Suzie’s in favor of labor unions! LOL
Minimum wage is not a wage. It’s a law.
If you make minimum wage and the government raises the Minimum Wage from $7.25 to $9.00, it doesn’t mean you get more money. You could get laid off and get nothing.
Newman, you would be wrong in thinking people on minimum wage are not “Trying” to live on it. My lady friend and I went to a fast food place last night. The young man, 17, was not feeling well. My lady friend told him he should go home. He said he couldn’t afford to, he lives away from home, working and going to school. Our hearts ached for this young person and of course he has no health insurance. My lady friend did not want to eat the food he had just prepared….How many people stand to get sick with him being forced to stay at work, wiping his nose on his sleeve, coughing….No adult around to caution him or give him advise…Oh, if I were a rich man, how awesome it would be to drop a Ben Franklin on him when we left.
6.“Get the government out and let worker and employee agree on the wage.”
Oh, LOL,,,,I can see it now…..Worker, I want $15.00 an hour. Employer: How you come in here young man, he answers, through the front door.
Employer: You can leave the same way.
5. Ronn May – Indeed, wonderful story.
Ron May,
What are your thoughts on this situation out of a Catholic HS in Ohio? What kind of contracts do they make teachers sign if any? Do they specifically state they have to support all Catholic doctrine, and if so who could actually expect someone to totally follow that doctrine?
http://www.change.org/petitions/archdiocese-of-cincinnati-don-t-remove-mike-moroski-as-dean-of-student-life-at-purcell-marian
OK, I need a group judgement. Please help me out here.
I have a side bet on how long Suzie would hold out as “the pious one” and refrain from all non-religious based trolls and avoid talk about pure politics, economics, goverment roles.
Lately I have seen a few that seemed to qualify as the return of the real Suzie. However, I am now claiming that Suzie @ 11:17 am contains no pious element and the just plain wrong — hence Suzie has returned.
BTW, its a classic, because (as she has done in the past) she has yet again ignored the teachings of her proclaimed favorite holy writings The Wealth of Nations — the magnum opus of her acclaimed moral philosopher of choice and the teachings of her most often cited/quoted (and misunderstood, by her) St. Smith.
Re: Ron May — @ 11:19 am
Love it.
Lately I have seen a few that seemed to qualify as the return of the real Suzie. However, I am now claiming that Suzie @ 11:17 am contains no pious element and the just plain wrong — hence Suzie has returned.
Maybe you need a hobby, Dave H. You spent a dozen posts splitting hairs about papal succession on the other thread. Now you’re obsessed on my posting on other topics.
Great story and lesson Ron!
I loved that story too, Ron!
“Get the government out and let worker and employee agree on the wage.”
Oh, so now Suzie’s in favor of labor unions! LOL
No, I said get the government out. Can’t you read?
That was indeed a great story, Ron. I love underspoken discipline like that.
While I agree that it is a sad day for humanity when a million dollar company has to be forced to pay a half-way decent wage or benefits, it is beyond ludicrous to claim that the majority of hourly wage workers in this nation have any autonomy or power in their wage amount (beyond getting a second or third job). That is a right wing meme that is just not true.
Yes Dave Hicks, typical Suzie.
Questions for my fellow foodies: “Who here has a Shrove Tuesday, Fat Tuesday, Mardi Gras food tradition? What is it?”
********** WARNING — MAY HARDEN / BLOCK ARTERIES JUST READING **********
http://tinyurl.com/b428u4w
**
Mardi Gras food: Fastnachts doughnuts for Shrove Tuesday
Mardi Gras food consumed the day before Lent is celebrated in
German-American kitchens with decadent doughnuts.
By Karen Hammonds, Contributor / March 7, 2011
Fastnachts doughnuts for Shrove Tuesday are a tradition among German
immigrants in Pennsylvania Dutch country. They are served warm with dark
corn syrup and sprinkled with confectioner’s sugar.
SNIP [including recipe]
**
—–
http://tinyurl.com/dec5us
**
Polish Pączki Recipe – Polish Doughnuts Recipe
By Barbara Rolek, About.com Guide
In the United States, Fat Tuesday, also known as Shrove Tuesday or Mardi
Gras, is the day to indulge before Lent begins. In many parts of Eastern
Europe, Fat Thursday (the last Thursday before Lent) heralds the winding
down of Carnival season. In Poland, this is known as Tłusty Czwartek.
Polonia in America celebrates Pączki Day on Fat Tuesday.
SNIP [including recipe]
**
—–
other
http://tinyurl.com/da3bl2
**
Mardi Gras
Find top recipes and party-perfect ideas for Mardi Gras.
SNIP
**
—–
FWIIW,
As a kid we had pancakes, sausage, etc. for supper.
When I worked in PA, I fell in love with Fastnachts.
Working out in the MI, I enjoyed Pączki — very good, but not Fastnachts (or maybe, as I wasn’t in MI for more than one Tłusty Czwartek, I had them from a less than stellar baker).
Now, with just the two of us at home, I make good 1 & 1/2 inch thick grilled steaks, a couple of backed potatoes, etc.
I’d love to find some good Fastnachts locally for next year, though.
Dave Hicks, I have enough issues with food at Christmas and Thanksgiving. I refuse any more food related events. Though God knows, I should take up fasting!
Factcheck on The Welfare President’s State of the Union speech last night.
http://news.msn.com/politics/fact-checking-obamas-state-of-the-union
Factcheck.org says “Fail”.
DaveHicks, my German grandmother every year made Fastnachtskuechle, which were those donuts you spoke of. They were diamond shaped. They’d puff up in the oil, then she dipped them quickly in cinnamon and sugar. We’d tear off the corner and put applesauce inside then eat them hot. Such a great memory.
Yeah, don’t raise the minimum wage so employees can pay more in taxes and SS in particular. Also, let’s not hear those on SS benefits whine about the lack of increases over the past few years.
Rather interesting article from The Virginian-Pilot :
http://tinyurl.com/bvcefw8
**
Report compares Virginia with other states
By Bill Sizemore
The Virginian-Pilot
© February 13, 2013
RICHMOND
SNIP
We’re a high-income state. Virginia’s per capita personal income of $46,469 is the eighth-highest in the country.
We’re a low-tax state. Virginians’ state and local tax load as a percentage of their personal income ranks 43rd in the nation.
We’re heavily dependent on federal government spending. Our level of per capita federal expenditures ranks fifth: $14,463 a year for every man, woman and child in the state.
Our credit is squeaky-clean. Virginia’s triple-A bond rating ranks No. 1.
Our colleges are a bit pricey. The average annual in-state tuition and fees at Virginia’s four-year public institutions is $9,907, 13th-highest.
SNIP
**
Seems to me Ken Cuccinelli has been running for Governor ever since he was an itty bitty lad. Now we know it. He’s late for the governors conference on school safety after the Sandy Hook tragedy because he’s raising campaign money:
http://www.americanbridgepac.org/2013/02/wire/research/caught-on-tape-ken-cuccinelli-part-time-attorney-general/
Shame, shame. Virginia’s part time AG. Of course with our own Bob Mcdonnell running for VP his entire term I guess its ok. I just wonder why they get full time pay for part time jobs?
One more thingy, anybody read Mr. C’s book “The last Line of Defense?”
I was told you can pick it up in the graphic novel section..
Apparently Dorner’s mother watched the shootout and siege sitting in a Mexican restaurant with a friend, drinking wine and eating chips. Maybe he wasn’t the biggest weirdo in the family.
it is beyond ludicrous to claim that the majority of hourly wage workers in this nation have any autonomy or power in their wage amount
Of course they do. It’s called “Find another job!”
Re: Kristen @ 1:02 pm
I have seen them in very plain geometric shapes, such as your diamonds, and various intricate shapes — including pretzel shaped.
FWIIW, In PA, I have seen them called fasnachtsküchle, fasnacht, fastnacht, faschnacht, etc. Beats me what they were called in Germany.
You are right. You can’t beat them fresh from the oil, golden brown and still warm or just cooled enough to eat and well before the oil thickens.
OMG, STOP THE PRESSES! The sitting president “puffed up his record”, that has never been done before and that is major news!
Henry, where did Factcheck.org say “Fail”? I could not find that word on the page. I know you wouldn’t lie, so please show me where I missed it?
Fastnacht is German for Fat Tuesday. Fastnachtskuechler just means Little Lent Cakes.
Sad
http://tinyurl.com/bntpx2y
**
FBI: Elderly ex-con robbed Illinois bank hoping to get caught, felt more comfortable in prison
CHICAGO — After spending most of his adult life behind bars, 73-year-old Walter Unbehaun decided to rob another bank in hopes of getting caught. He felt more comfortable in prison, court documents allege, and wanted to spend his final years there.
So the balding, gray-haired South Carolina man leaned on a cane as he walked into a bank in suburban Chicago over the weekend and used a novel stickup line: He had just six months to live, so he had nothing left to lose, according to a federal complaint citing his post-arrest interrogation.
SNIP
**
Well Dave, if it beats a fresh warm Krispy Kreme, then you have had a slice of Heaven.
Also sad, in a very different way, IMHO:
http://tinyurl.com/c7zygy4
**
Why traditional dating is dead
By Jessica Massa, Special to CNN
updated 1:59 PM EST, Wed February 13, 2013
SNIP
**
and
http://tinyurl.com/bjya5pk
**
The lost art of offline dating
By Ashley Strickland, CNN
updated 1:21 PM EST, Tue February 12, 2013
SNIP
**
Re: Sandi Saunders @ 1:54 pm
It even beats a fresh warm “Old Fashion” style “Dunkin’ Donut”
.
.
.
Forget religion, forget politics — let the real war begin.
Fresh Krispy Kreme beats Dunkin Donuts any day.
DD does have good coffee, though.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/gas-prices-speculation_n_2676809.html
“U.S. motorists searching for someone to blame for the highest gasoline prices ever at this time of year have an easy target: hedge funds who have been quietly amassing winning bets on hundreds of millions of barrels of oil.”
People are wising up.
Re: J.M. White @ 2:16 pm
And here, in the past, I had a great respect for your judgement, J. M.
.
.
.
Cold P………….You are obviously not an older senior, disabled, and living on S/S….We get screwed every year and in particular the two we got no increases at all…Don’t Don’t criticize something that you show you know nothing about.
Would anyone ever knowingly book a trip on that cruise ship after knowing what went on this week? There’s not enough Lysol in the world.
#27 OMG!
Comment by Dave Hicks — February 13, 2013 @ 3:08 pm
No hard feelings, Dave. I haven’t had either of those kinds of doughnuts in 10 years, so I may be out of the loop a bit. I make my own now. I just always remember DD’s selections being almost universally overcooked. I hope you don’t think any less of me.
Whoops! What I meant to say was, how dare you, sir?!? Everyone knows that Dunkin Donuts is just the propaganda arm of the MSM and is bent on the destruction of the American economy. “Time to make the donuts” is code for “time to decimate the American way of life”. You should be ashamed at your unpatriotic behavior, sir.
OTOH, Krispy Kreme is a holy institution, guided by God, and is only trying to save our souls, one deliciously unhealthy treat at a time. It’s time to wake up, Dave. Come back to the
darkglazed side. There’s a free eclair in it for you!Re: J.M. White @ 5:42 pm
LOL!
Well done sir.
Granted I am only 54 but I have never tasted anything that beat a fresh, warm, fluffy Krisy Kreme glazed donut. My first job was a few blocks away and the one good thing about getting up at 4:30 in the morning for 3 years was the occasional KK stop!
We always take out of state friends for one if they have never had them.
Carol Lee donuts in Blacksburg is hard to beat.
“U.S. motorists searching for someone to blame for the highest gasoline prices ever at this time of year have an easy target: hedge funds who have been quietly amassing winning bets on hundreds of millions of barrels of oil.”
When it’s a Democrat in charge, they blame the speculators for high gas prices. When it’s a Republican president, they blame him.
Well what do you know? Maybe those schools aren’t as tightly secured as Dan implied.
http://blogs.roanoke.com/theburgs/news/2013/02/13/falling-branch-elementary-megabus-stop-are-uneasy-pair/
Re: John Wilburn @ 6:25 pm
Too bad the closed up downtown. Or have the reopened downtown?
Thoughts?
http://tinyurl.com/akkztyp
**
FDA confirms: It’s considering rule change for generic labels
2/13/2013
Last month, when I wrote about the Obama administration’s apparent flip-flop on the question of federal pre-emption of product liability claims against generic drugmakers, I mentioned a curious footnote in the Justice Department’s Supreme Court amicus brief in Mutual Pharmaceutical v. Barrett. All the wrangling over liability for generics, which are required by law to use the same labels as the brand-name drugs they replicate, could be unnecessary, Justice hinted. “This office has been informed that Food and Drug Administration is considering a regulatory change that would allow generic manufacturers, like brand-name manufacturers, to change their labeling in appropriate circumstances,” the brief said. “If such a regulatory change is adopted, it could eliminate pre-emption of failure-to-warn claims against generic-drug manufacturers.”
SNIP
So, will generics welcome the opportunity to provide consumers with more information about potentially dangerous side effects of their drugs? Not bloody likely.
SNIP
**
Are generic drug the same or not?
If not, what are the ramifications? Tort liability for drugmakers? Tort liability for prescribing doctors? Tort liability for insurance companies that don’t cover non-generic drug? Other issues?
Hey you libs,
There’s relatively few businesses which pay the federal minimum wage. In fact, I’m not aware of any businesses which pay the minimum wage. Do any know you folks know of any business which pays their staff the federal minimum wage?
Or, is obama’s “proclamation” nothing more than a big, ol’, red herring?
J.M., CC hands down. I prefer the confectionate-sugar coated, white-creme-filled.
According to the People’s Pharmacy and some people who write letters to them, no, not all generic drugs are the same. Some just do not have the same effect that the original drug has.
I see those commercials on TV for medications and after hearing all the possible side effects, I wonder why anyone would even think about taking the stuff. They always feature happy, smiling people, while telling you liver damage, kidney damage, fainting, headaches, severe nausea, rashes, etc. can occur. Do they think because the actors look happy, that you’re not listening or reading the lists of side effects?
My grandmother used to make yeast doughnuts. They were heavenly. One of my uncle’s said that she would make them when they were kids, and if it was warm outside and the doors were open, every kid in the neighborhood would appear at their house.
hey debbie,
i have a fond memory of my paternal grandmother making donuts (i don’t know for sure, but I believe someone mentioned something about yeast) in the winter in up-state New York. Nothing like coming inside all cold and wet and smelling them frying in the grease pot. we didn’t even wait for the sugar before plunging in.
Chuck, that story is so weird. Why don’t they do the obvious and and PUT A LOCK ON THE DAMN DOOR. Or a key old so that the actual employees can get in without a problem? The staff should demand it.
Actually, suzie, during the Bush admin there were times when it was the speculators.
Key pad, not old. No idea.
Yeast doughnuts always beat cake doughnuts, no contest.
All my life I was an ardent Krispy Kreme partisan. Then in 2006 I moved to Kalamazoo for grad school and discovered the portal to paradise known as Sweetwater’s, and my life was never the same.
My car must have a detection sensor hidden in it. When I drive down Melrose, if that Red “Hot” sign is on, can’t control the car from turning into the place…..What I don’t understand is why is the price for one donut $1.00 their and in outlets only .50 cents?…Shouldn’t it be the other way around?…Agreed, love D.D. coffee.
It’s time to WANGO TANGO!! Can’t wait to buy my Styx, REO Speedwagon and UNCLE TED NUGENT tickets this morning!!! Who’s going??? Are you excited???? I love it when Ted speaks freely. Every mass murderer lately has had a mental problem. Columbine, VTech, and 1Adam12 in LA who is now well done!
Did you make your NRA list yet Danny?
What’s the over under on how many innocent children will be aborted on Peters Creek Rd today? You folks dig a good abortion on Valentine’s Day!
Circulation still going south! BAWAHAHAHA!
Hey, where are all those Occupy folks? Double BAWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!\
That’s all you get, seeya in 6 months!!!!!!!!!
ps~ put down a sandwich every now and then Sandi so you can walk through a store!!!!!
Cold in P, #26 Your “part time” governor has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate west of the Mississippi and a budget surplus. But I know, this is all thanks to Obama.. .. Not republican principles.
Kristen and Chuck, Mega bus or not, one would think a school next to an interstate would have better security.
There are few wheat-based things that I miss so much that I actually crave, but a yeast-style doughnut is one of them. Can’t be replicated gluten free.
“Your “part time” governor has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate west of the Mississippi…”
That’s quite an accomplishment. Even I didn’t realize McD could do that.
“…and a budget surplus.”
Built mostly on smoke and mirrors and robbing Peter to pay Paul. Oh, and an improving national economy.
gdad, the fix seems easy. Unless there’s already a lock on there and I missed it.
OK, guys I think I’m going to give this place up for Lent. I’ll see you after 3-31, if then.
I’ll have prayers going on for you all, especially for a cluster of about five people here who appear especially angry/depressed. You probably know who you are.
I’ve already charged Ron with an assignment. He knows what it is, and I think he’ll do it. He’s a good guy. I sense a change already.
I also predict Dan will undergo a change. We will know it’s happening when the type and tone of the threads change.
Have a wonderful Lent and Easter, people. Even though we all posture in here and may not act our best selves, know that I love you all.
I also ask each of you to pray for me.
“I’ve already charged Ron with an assignment.”
God it’ll be a relief not to have to see this sanctimonious BS for a while.
Comment by Suzie — February 14, 2013 @ 10:13 am
Comment by Suzie — February 14, 2013 @ 10:24 am
kthxbye!
Group hug!
Pistol Pete @62 “Cold in P, #26 Your “part time” governor has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate west of the Mississippi and a budget surplus. But I know, this is all thanks to Obama.. .. Not republican principles.”
Comment by pistol pete — February 14, 2013 @ 8:52 am
Finally you get it! The employment rate and the “budget surplus” do not have anything ti di with VA’s governor being a good steward of the Commonwealth. According to Galllup, 27% of workers in VA work for the feds making it third highest following [DC and Alaska – which have more employed by the federal govt. http://www.gallup.com/poll/141785/Gov-Employment-Ranges-Ohio.aspx
I have enclosed a handy link about the percentage of federal employees in VA’s cities – check out the Hampton Roads area,NOVA and VA Beach…
http://zipatlas.com/us/va/city-comparison/percentage-government-employees.htm
When republicans wish to cut federal employment – they will 1. reduce the workforce in VA, 2. increase unemployment in VA, and as a result,
3. people without paychecks will effect the VA economy. Federal employees’ loss of income = less purchasing power = less VA tax revenue…
Also, balancing the VA budget on the back of the VA teachers’ pension fund should not be called a budget “surplus”…
Group hug!
Comment by Kristen — February 14, 2013 @ 11:08 am
Right after we all hold hands while standing in a circle and sing Kumbaya.
“OK, guys I think I’m going to give this place up for Lent.”
Unpossible.
hi Duane at 11:14 this morning,
Your post is, unfortuanely, spot on. Yes, the city administration SHOULD be ashamed by what you described. But, they won’t be. And, the only way that the lib-power struction running roanoke city would object to someone shooing people away from public walkways in front of their place of business would be if it was a conservative republican or tea party member doing the shooing…or, if the shop sold guns.
good post.
“OK, guys I think I’m going to give this place up for Lent. I’ll see you after 3-31, if then.”
Let’s all follow ‘suzie’s’ example. Let us not make mention of ‘suzie’ for the remaining days of Lent. She may be able to refrain from posting for that time, but I’ll bet she’s not able to keep from checking to see how often her name is mentioned in her absence.
Who’s with me?
Suzie Rocks!!
I am Contra.
Mention who Contra??
Comment by Contrasuzie — February 14, 2013 @ 2:52 pm
I’m in.
Can any of you conservatives explain why even a dime apparently is too much to cut from defense (the wailing and moaning is at high pitch) and yet you think you can cut Medicare, Social Security, Education, and many other public services with ease? Do you even see the disconnect in your own position?
Kicking people when they are down is never a good plan for recovery. Why do you think it is now? What makes the debt or even the deficit so crucial now AFTER the economic crash when neither was before?
Because you hate Obama more than you love America. That much is clear.
I’m all in
Same to you, Suzie. Good post.
I also predict Dan will undergo a change. We will know it’s happening when the type and tone of the threads change.
Have a wonderful Lent and Easter, people. Even though we all posture in here and may not act our best selves, know that I love you all.
Comment by Suzie — February 14, 2013 @ 10:13 am
In just 9.5 hoursit has already change3d . Wonder why. I’m with Contra from here on out.
Hey, why stop after the big “sacrifice” for Lent? Let’s make it permanent once and for all? In fact, since they have proven over and over that discussion and honest debate are not remotely what they are after, let’s ignore them all and let them stew in their own hate alone.
Sounds like it’s time to have a rip-roarin’ good time talking however we please about pedophile priests, abortion, cafeteria Catholicism, Planned Parenthood, birth control, federal budget, entitlement programs, premarital sex, all things gay, and Golden Corral.
Contra, hold that door so it doesn’t smack her….
Folks are just being polite saying goodbye.