Thursday’s column: On grade scheme, Richmond earns a ‘D’
Museum of Lincolnshire Life | Green Lane | Wikimedia Commons
For 16 years or so, state and federal lawmakers and bureaucrats have tinkered around with measuring public education.
This has resulted in Virginia’s Standards of Learning, the feds’ Adequate Yearly Progress, and all kinds of other metrics and measurements and statistics and and charts. Lots of charts.
Now they seem to be admitting all that previous effort just doesn’t cut the mustard. Because this year, the geniuses in Richmond have hit upon a new scheme, pushed by Gov. Bob McDonnell and Sen. Bill Stanley, R-Franklin County: letter grades for every public school in the commonwealth. Both the House and the Senate have passed the bill.
Alas, nobody I’m aware of has ever asked education leaders to grade those measurement-minded lawmakers. That seems unfair. So I gave some area school board members and administrators that opportunity this week.
None seemed more eager than Fuzzy Minnix, a five-year veteran of the Roanoke County School board. He was a 12-year county supervisor before that.
We must forgive Minnix if he sounded a bit frustrated. You see, he ardently believes in turning mediocre schools into good ones and good schools into excellent ones. But his head is spinning from all the different edicts. And Minnix has lost his faith that state government leaders share his goals.
He ticked off some of his own measurements to explain why: Richmond has slashed $14 million in state funding from Roanoke County schools in the past four years. His school system has lost 115 teachers, cut 236 positions, and it’s looking at closing three schools down the road.
“I graded the governor, and he’s in my own party, and he did not get a good grade,” Minnix said. He launched into a long-winded explanation of all the points he deducted for the affronts listed above. The bottom line is, Minnix’s grade was a “D.”
READ THE REST OF THIS COLUMN HERE.
(This post has been updated to correct the number of positions cut in Roanoke County schools.)
February 7, 2013 - 6:00 AM
Where did you find a picture of hey frank’s hat?
Dan, this is just another step on the road to privatization of public education. There is big money to be made in charter schools, virtual schools and voucher funded private schools. The General Assembly has worked for the past five years to make it easier for corporations to get an ever increasing piece of the pie. The grading of public schools is just another part of this effort. Convincing parents that their kids’ public schools are bad is just part of the plan to fuel demand for the corporate, for profit alternatives. When you realize that none of this is about education, only money, it becomes very understandable.
Of course the corollary of the grade scheme is that it fits with another of Governor’s initiatives, and that a new branch of the DOE designed to turn around failing schools, The Educational Opportunity Initiative. To quote from his State of Virginia address:
“The Opportunity Educational Institution will be a new statewide school division to turnaround failing schools. If a school is consistently failing, the Opportunity Educational Institution will step in to manage it. If the school has failed for two years, the Institution can take it over and provide a brand new approach to a broken system.”
I have no problem with new approaches, but what knowledge of State turn around teams I do have is not positive. North Carolina has a centralized system in which the State has the capability to staff and direct local school districts and used that leverage to do so. In the school systems in which this approach was tried, not much changed.
That’s not say that you can’t immediately fix corruption, or incompetence, or staff a school with highly qualified people. That only takes money. What you can’t easily change are the social conditions in a particular school community that are a major factor in a particular school’s performance outcome. Still, if the State is really serious about putting money toward fixable issues in a school, or school system, I can support that. I don’t think this is likely.
I will also predict that such a grading system will inevitably demonstrate a “Lake Wobegon Effect”, in which report cards will largely show that most schools are above average. I suspect then, as now, the shortcomings of public education will still be the focus of most discussions despite the positive labels.
Dan, A+ for this article. And A+ to Mr. Seibert for illuminating the flawed reasoning underlying such a scheme. If our lawmakers want to get more involved with public education, then they should, as a body, take selected SOLs every year and publish their results. Wonder how many lawmakers would meet minimum standards?
As has already been pointed out, the Repubs want to take a “system” being used by the #23 ranked state and apply it to Virginia, which is ranked 4th. Another grade isn’t going to “fix” failing schools.
Note: Richmond is run by the Republicans and this is an anti-Republican newspaper so take this column with a grain of salt.
“Stanley, who sponsored the A-F bill, has said that only 52 Virginia schools would rate below average (a D or F) under his plan. There are something like 1,850 public schools in the state. ”
IOW, yet another “solution” in search of a problem. Sort of like fixing all that nonexistent voter fraud. And think of the money that’s going to be wasted. Stanley could buy a lot of Glocks with that cash.
“His school system has lost 115 teachers, cut 36 positions, and it’s looking at closing three schools down the road.”
BTW, I can remember when one of our intrepid troll posters claimed that when Roanoke City was closing schools and losing teacher positions, it was because of “inefficiencies.” Guess that must be what’s going on in Roanoke County.
Non-Partisan Critic,
I’d like to explore your comment a bit further. Please drop me an email, if you’re so inclined.
Non-partisan critic has a point…there’s been a lot of concern in Michigan about some of the schools being handed over to private companies to operate and manage. One number I saw indicated that last year, something like close to $400 million was invested into venture capital companies aiming to take over portions of the K-12 system, up from just $14 million a few years ago in 2005. Private groups see K-12 education as the next big investment money maker…wanting to cash in on the nearly half a trillion spent annually in this country. It’s only logical that they would work to make the government-run schools look as bad as possible, so they can sweep in as private-sector saviors and reap the benefits. And once the keys are handed over, getting them back is going to be damned near impossible.
Wow Non- Partisan Critic! That was a hell of an indictment and likely truer than many of us know. It most certainly explains the adversarial activity. Spot on!
OJ, if you can serve up some links, I’d be most appreciative.
Richmond seems to always embrace commercial interests over educational ones. Look at the stupid starting date laws. Kids in Florida start before Labor Day and somehow Disney survives.
Dan, take take a look at the ALEC education agenda and model education legislation. Then look at ALEC’s corporate membership and corporate donors. Then look at how many of those corprations have subsiduaries that, guess what, sell for profit educational services. There is really nothing unique about this. In politics, it is almost always just about following the money.
“Alas, nobody I’m aware of has ever asked education leaders to grade those measurement-minded lawmakers. That seems unfair. So I gave some area school board members and administrators that opportunity this week.”
But arent’ the lawmakers elected and perhaps even re-elected? So is that not a fair indicator of how they are graded? Alas, no one grades columnists.
Here ya go, Dan:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/usa-education-investment-idUSL2E8J15FR20120802
http://www.michiganradio.org/post/grading-michigans-first-fully-privatized-public-school-district
The grading system is easy to ridicule, but I am surprised that Dan did not give at least one paragraph explaining why they resorted to this idea.
Public school performance lacks accountability. If private schools do not perform, parents remove the child in favor of a school that does perform. Most public school children do not have that option.
If you side with the kids more than the teachers, then you beg for accountability. This grading system is a crude first step to introduce accountability. Schools that are performing should have nothing to fear.
“This grading system is a crude first step to introduce accountability.”
terps, that’s what we were told with testing from the 197s and 1980s and then with SOLs and then NCLB and god knows what else. How many “grades” do we need? And the amount of money and time being spent on this nonsense is astounding.
Non partisan critic
What is wrong with a voucher system where the parents can take there voucher to a school that they feel is making the best effort to teach their child? Shouldn’t education be looked at through the eyes of the customers(ie. parents and children) and not the eyes of the providers(teachers)?
So what are you saying, terps? That this “crude first attempt” is necessary because uncrude attempt #1 (SOLs) and uncrude attempt #2 (AYP) failed? That we must return to the crude?
That’s not progress; it’s regression. That’s your bag — or at least, you pretend it is.
But jeez, if newspapers worked that way, I’d be pounding out my stories on a manual typewriter (OMG those damn computers are just too complicated). If medicine worked that way, you’d drop into you family doctor for a little bloodletting every so often when your blood pressure got high.
Because guess what? That is crudely effective at bringing it down.
Maybe the problem is acting like there are “sides”? It is certainly not teachers against the kids even if you believe there are “sides” and that there is some “fight” over public education.
To say that “school performance lacks accountability” is just plain not the truth. Schools are scrutinized by parents, PTA, School Boards, County Boards who fund them, the state, and even the Federal government, not to mention politicians, colleges and the media. They measure stuff ALL the time and “certify”, test and “whistle-blow” all the time.
What about S.O.L.’s and A.Y.P. terps? Are you serious? No accountability? The grading system is redundant and unnecessary, hence an object of ridicule because it is a tremendous waste of time and money. If you can’t find out how well a school is performing compared to the rest of Virginia or the rest of the country then you aren’t looking. The information is readily available.
Your comment about schools fearing this system is off-base as well. Where in the article did you determine that schools would fear this?
Non partisan critic
What is wrong with a voucher system where the parents can take there voucher to a school that they feel is making the best effort to teach their child? Shouldn’t education be looked at through the eyes of the customers(ie. parents and children) and not the eyes of the providers(teachers)?
–Terps
This is a GREAT question! Let’s consider it in other realms.
What is wrong with a voucher system where the parents can take their voucher to a pediatrician whom they feel will make the best effort to heal their child? Shouldn’t healthcare be looked at through the eyes of the customers(ie. sick people) and not the eyes of the providers(hospitals and doctors)?
Tell you what, terps, let’s make a deal. I will come out in favor of a government supported voucher system for schools when when you come out in support of a Canadian-style healthcare system.
I found this article on the issue:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/private-firms-eyeing-prof_n_1732856.html
“The investors gathered in a tony private club in Manhattan were eager to hear about the next big thing, and education consultant Rob Lytle was happy to oblige.
Think about the upcoming rollout of new national academic standards for public schools, he urged the crowd. If they’re as rigorous as advertised, a huge number of schools will suddenly look really bad, their students testing way behind in reading and math. They’ll want help, quick. And private, for-profit vendors selling lesson plans, educational software and student assessments will be right there to provide it.
“You start to see entire ecosystems of investment opportunity lining up,” said Lytle, a partner at The Parthenon Group, a Boston consulting firm. “It could get really, really big.”
Indeed, investors of all stripes are beginning to sense big profit potential in public education.“
Here are some more articles on it:
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/22/is-this-the-true-goal-of-reform-today/
http://www.politicususa.com/romney-education-plan.html
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2011/07/11/265663/voucher-tea-party-go-away/
Apparently, Non-Partisan Critic is spot on.
terps@17
Grades are redundant and superfluous. The grades will based on measures the State currently uses to for accountability and accreditation. Yep, that’s right, a system already exists. The fact that most of the public doesn’t much care to check into it doesn’t mean it ain’t there.
Does anyone else think it’s strange that the right wing so strongly favors government vouchers for private schools, while at the same time they are ardent foes of government vouchers for private health care (which is the Canadian system)?
Or here’s another game we could play: let’s take two hospitals — # 1 where all the care is at no cost to the patients, who arrive by bus, and #2 where 100 percent of the patients pay 100 percent of their bills, including the daily parking fees for their luxury cars.
Lets compare them in terms of this crude but important metric: patient lifespan. We’ll grade them on a curve. And after the hospital #1 gets an F and the hospital #2 gets an A, let’s take all the money that’s spent at #1 and give it #2, as vouchers for patients who used to be treated at #1.
After a decent interval of 30 or so years, we’ll measure the average patient lifespan at hospital #2, and compare it to what their lifespan score was three decades earlier. (Hospital #1 will be long closed).
And THEN, once we determined that the average patient lifespan at #2 is SHORTER THAN IT WAS 30 years earlier based on that crude metric, we can declare the experiment a monumental failure, and move onto another yet scam in which private interests can gobble taxpayer dollars!
“This is a GREAT question! Let’s consider it in other realms.
What is wrong with a voucher system where the parents can take their voucher to a pediatrician whom they feel will make the best effort to heal their child? Shouldn’t healthcare be looked at through the eyes of the customers(ie. sick people) and not the eyes of the providers(hospitals and doctors)”
Dan
Ok Dan, now they must be passing out acid in the press room.
We HAVE a voucher system for health care and patients are free to go to the pediatrician of their choice.Consumers of healthcare reward the best doctors and the bad ones have empty waiting rooms.
Dan, is anyone preventing you from seeing the doctor of your choice. HELL NO! So why can’t parents who are trying to get the best education for their child get the same choice.
A Canadian style health care sysyem takes choices AWAY from patients. Just ask Liam Neelson. His wife died while travelling 4hrs from her ski resort just to get a cat scan. The subdural hematoma was missed and she died. The non accountability of Canadian healthcare would dovetail well with our nonaccountability for education.
I don’t find it odd at all. The conservative mantra for as long as I can remember is cut government. How to accomplish that? Make government look incompetent. How is that achieved? Cutting budgets of government agencies to make their jobs harder to do successfully, within set parameters. Once various agencies are demonstrated to be failing with reduced budgets, then you propose privatization of them, to improve their performance. But, you don’t mention that as a result, most often the people who formerly did the jobs will get compensated less with the private company, the service quality will remain the same or get worse, and in the long run the costs will almost always be higher.
Then, rather than giving private companies the ability to manage government fund recieved through tax revenues (like how private contractors handle things like road maintenance, IT services, etc), you then dump whole segments of government property by selling them to the highest bidder, and it becomes private infrastructure that the citizens pay for directly through user fees, tuition, tolls, etc…rather than general fund contributions through taxes. Net result, the cost to the citizen is even higher, and the government can claim it’s smaller and more efficient for the citizens (while ignoring that it has sluffed its responsibility to the private sector in the process).
Now I think you have it Dan!
So, terps, given the whole SOL and NCLB systme that we ALREADY have, have you rethought that whole lack of accountability statement from earlier?
terps..
You keep saying non accountability of education. What do know about accountability in public education. Do you have any idea what methods, policies or evaluations are currently in place to assure some accountability. I’d be real surprised if you did.
“A Canadian style health care sysyem takes choices AWAY from patients. Just ask Liam Neelson. His wife died while travelling 4hrs from her ski resort just to get a cat scan. The subdural hematoma was missed and she died. The non accountability of Canadian healthcare would dovetail well with our nonaccountability for education.”
–Terps
Terps, you are really flailing now. You might have a minor point (although it would still fall in the evidence-by-anecdote category) if nobody in the U.S. ever died from a closed head injury. But newsflash! they do. It happens every day. Just an fyi on that, pal.
Apparently you’re outta your gourd from the cognitive dissonance I created by noting that your prescription to heal education is almost exactly like many others’ prescriptions to heal healthcare, and that you vehemently oppose the latter.
Dan
Where in America do you have to drive 4hrs to get a CAT SCAN?
Terps,
Where in America do people not die of closed-head injuries every day?
you libbies just pass all of them, yes, sure just give them all A’s..you know, like you all do in children’s sports.. It doesnt seem to matter to you what government crap they’re learning, obviously…thank God for private schools and the intelligent ones that send their children there.
AND bammy care is also garbage…just like the opines of the low info voters here..
Dan
If YOU, or a loved one had a closed head injury, would you rather be in Canada-four hours from the nearest CT Scanner or in America. You know damn well where you’d rather be.
Terps,
I’d rather not be at ANY ski slope with an injury like that. Because almost all of them are out in the sticks and a good distance away from the brain surgeons, n’est pas?
If you know one that has a cat-scan machine next to the lounge in the ski lodge, please dish on which one it is.
terps…you’ve got the facts a bit screwy. She refused medical attention twice following the ski accident, and returned to her room. About 3 hours later, she was admitted to the local hospital after complaining of a headache. After being seen there, she was then transferred by ambulance to a hospital in Montreal, about an hour away…and the following day flown to New York City…where she died the following day.
The initial several hours that passed following her fall and when she chose to go to the hospital were the crucial ones in treating such head injuries. Hard to blame the Canadian health system for that.
Terps, there are literally tens of millions of Americans who are not “free to go to the pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see. Are you kidding, or that out of touch?
Stop trying to make political points on a non-issue, terps!
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/did-canadian-health-system-fail-natasha.html
http://mediamatters.org/research/2009/03/30/fox-news-invokes-canadian-health-care-bogeyman/148733
It’s been done.
terps is flailing badly over closed head trauma suffered in remote areas of the U.S., many areas of which are indeed four hours from a CAT scan.
However he does prove that closed mind trauma can occur in the very midst of the healthcare industry.
BTW, terps, on what basis did you call the writer of yesterday’s letter to Dan a female?
pammala, in the spirit of Gina Holmes’ call for “listening”, I must say that I hear you and appreciate your “quaint” colloquial way of transmitting your wit.
OK Dan You asked.
http://tedstumor.blogspot.com/2009/03/natasha-richardson-epidural-hemorrhage_20.html
Mt Tremblant(where this accident occured) is the largest ski resort in Canada. It is a worldwide tourist destination that is jammed with skiers in the winter. They have no CT scanner and no neurosurgeons. In fact, Canada has hardly any neurosurgeons because 60% leave within 2 years of finishing training.
Vail is the largest ski resort in America. The town is about the same size as Mt. Tremblant. They have MULTIPLE CT SCANNERS and MULTIPLE neurosurgeons.
So I ask again. At which ski resort would you rather be treated for your closed head injury. The one in America or the one in Canada?
[PPT]
Medical Helicopters – Dr. Bryan E. Bledsoe
http://www.bryanbledsoe.com/…/Medical%20Helicopters%20in%20EMS.p...
There are more medical helicopters in Dallas/Fort Worth than all of Canada or Australia. … Aeromedical Service
Also, in case you thought you may be rescued by a medical helicopter for your Canadian skiing closed head injury….think again. There are more medical helicopters in Dallas than all of Canada and Australia combined.
terps, what is it with you and not getting the facts straight before you spout off?
Everything I’ve read says that Richardson was 25-40 minutes from the closest scanner — NOT 4 hours — BUT she was hours away from a major trauma center with a neurologist. This could, of course, easily happen in the U.S., the difference being that the U.S. has more emergency helicopters for faster transport (not that they’re always available). Richardson contributed to her own death by refusing treatment for 2-3 hours because she felt fine at first.
Even in the U.S. you might want to check availability of nearby trauma care before skiing. And consider wearing a helmet, especially if you’re a novice.
“Terps, there are literally tens of millions of Americans who are not “free to go to the pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see. Are you kidding, or that out of touch?”
Sandi
I’ll try not to be insulting because it bothers me when those on the blog act like that. But between the CHIP program, Medicaid and insurance,virtually every child is covered. Patients who are not satisfied with their doctor are free to change and are encouraged to change. We have alot of problems with health care in America….but not with access for children. This is one of the few strengths of our system and you would be more convincing to pounce on the weaknesses( ie. adult ununisured, cost, overutilization, etc.)
So I ask again. At which ski resort would you rather be treated for your closed head injury. The one in America or the one in Canada?
–terps
Terps, thank you for the link to Ted’s Tumor Blog! That sounds like a real neat site. But I believe OJ has straightened you out already on the facts regarding this, hasn’t he?
She refused medical attention twice following the ski accident, and returned to her room. About 3 hours later, she was admitted to the local hospital after complaining of a headache. After being seen there, she was then transferred by ambulance to a hospital in Montreal, about an hour away…and the following day flown to New York City…where she died the following day.
–OJ
Perhaps you could find another anecdote to support your argument. (But it would still be an anecdote). How about telling us the closed-head-injury death rate in Canada vs the U.S.? That might be more persuasive data.
Ok, and terps/Dan, the local hospital that she was admitted to, nearby the ski resort? They had a CT scanner and performed one.
Dan
I’ll try one more time. If you had a closed head injury, would you want it at Mt. Treblant Canada(0 ct scanners, 0 neurosurgeons) or Vail, America (numerous ct scanners and neurosurgeons). I answer all of your questions, please, please answer mine.(third try)
GDAD
How about you? Would it be Mt. Tremblant or Vail? Will just one of you libs answer!
“I’ll try one more time. If you had a closed head injury, would you want it at Mt. Treblant Canada(0 ct scanners, 0 neurosurgeons) or Vail, America (numerous ct scanners and neurosurgeons). I answer all of your questions, please, please answer mine.(third try)”
terps, I can’t answer definitely. Perhaps you can take on a fact-finding tour of Vail and Mt. Treblant so I can figure this one out. We can take Suzie’s private jet!
We’d all rather be hurt in America because, here in America, no one dies. How’s that, terps?
Of all the stupid arguments we’ve gotten on here, this is the dumbest.
And the husband’s name is Neeson(not Neelson), and I’ve never heard him blame Canada for his wife’s death. Probably because he’s not a blithering moron.
Dan
You are totally FOS. The Canadian system has it’s plusses, but you know damn well that if your beautiful wife had a closed head injury you would much rather be at Vail. You can be for the Canadian system and admit that.
Warren
Let’s try you. I’ll admit that I am a sexist pig and that is why I thought that letter was from a woman(I bet it was)
So, lets say you had a chance to protest and demand more benefits at Vail or Mt. Tremblant. Now, let’s say that a “we are the 99%” sign fell on your head and you had a closed head injury. Where would you rather be….Mt Tremblant or Vail?
Now fair is fair. I answered your question so you have to answer mine.
Other John
Let’s try you. Is there one honest lib on this blog? Who is going to admit they would rather be in America with a closed head injury?
“Mt Tremblant(where this accident occured) is the largest ski resort in Canada.”
Back in reality, Mt. Tremblant (where this accident occured) is 1/15th the size of Whistler and not even in the top 10 in ski resorts sizewise in Canada.
If it were me (and I don’t ski anyway) I would want it to happen at Vail for one simple reason: if you’re an American with American insurance, while in Canada, you have to provide a rather large up-front cash deposit for services because our health insurance is not accepted there. Later, you can file for reimbursement upon returning to the states of any amount not spent on your Canadian healthcare expenses. If it’s a life-threatening situation, you don’t have to pre-pay, but it’s still a costly affair.
I repeat, literally tens of millions of Americans who are not “free to go to the pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see. No doctor is obliged to take any patient other than the ER. Doctors can refuse to see a Medicaid patient and their “choices” within that program for say eyeglasses, hearing aids and other medical aids are restricted as well. Do they get to see a doctor? Sure they do. The pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see? No. If you want “to be insulting because it bothers” you. Be precise in your broad brush generalizations.
OK, I admit it. I would rather have a closed head injury in the United States. Actually, I would rather not have one at all, but if I HAD TO CHOOSE WHERE TO HAVE IT — a choice I doubt I’ll ever get to make, in the real world, I would rather have one here. I think I’d most like to have it in the Grand Canyon.
And I’m admitting this in part because Terps is a dear friend, and I don’t wish for him to have a stroke.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/251834-overview
“In the United States, the incidence of closed head injury is estimated to be approximately 200 cases per 100,000 persons per year.[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] In a population of 291.6 million people, this rate equates to more than 570,000 patients annually.[7] Approximately 15% of these patients succumb to the injury upon arrival to the emergency department. ”
We lose 15% of closed head injuries in this country that make it to the ER. Not great statistics.
IMO, there are more “honest libs” on this blog than honest conservatives, but in the spirit of Gina Holmes, not being a skier, if I were to undertake such an activity, I would absolutely choose a resort nearest a trauma center with a CT Scan and every bell and whistle I could afford. Canada is not the US and because we have such good services is no reason not to offer the same “vouchers” for medical care you want to offer for private schools. And you know it, you honest conservative you!
FWIW terps, I didn’t see your question directed at me before I punched in my comment at 4:08. Also, given the relatively remote location of Tremblant, combined with the fact that it’s in the primarily french-speaking province of Quebec…it’s hands-down if I was skiing and got hurt, I’d prefer it to be in Vail. They have a Level III trauma center that’s fairly close to the resort, no huge up-front out-of-pocket fees, and I won’t run a risk of not having an English-speaking doctor available.
PS, do you have any notion that what is so close and available for Vail is at EVERY ski (or sports) resort in the US?
Sandi, I think at Snowshoe you’d be out of luck.
OJ@11:36. Your post should have mentioned the USPS. They are portrayed as being mismanaged and incompetent when the truth is they are forced by Congress to fund the retirement of employees for 75 years. The have fully funded pensions for employees yet to be born. The idea is to run them out of business and let the FedEx and UPS types take over. It’ll probably cost $5 to mail a Christmas card.
“I answer all of your questions, please, please answer mine.(third try)”
Comment by terps
terps is lying. Saying the above quote demonstrably made him a liar, because three times in the past two days he’s been asked on what basis he called yesterday’s writer of the letter to Dan a female. He even replied to a different part of one of the posts containing that question, proving he saw it and didn’t answer.
terps doesn’t answer all the questions, asked of him, yet he claims he does. That makes terps a liar.
Fourth try:
terps, on what basis did you call the writer of yesterday’s letter to Dan a female?
Wow, talk about attacking minutiae to dodge an issue. I guess the mantra “if you can’t dazzle ‘em with brilliance, baffle ‘em with bulls#!t” still holds true.
After all this partisan crap is said and done, are you people saying you’re satisfied with the status quo in our public schools?
“OJ@11:36. Your post should have mentioned the USPS. They are portrayed as being mismanaged and incompetent when the truth is they are forced by Congress to fund the retirement of employees for 75 years. The have fully funded pensions for employees yet to be born. The idea is to run them out of business and let the FedEx and UPS types take over. It’ll probably cost $5 to mail a Christmas card.”
–comment by dobbs
Dobbs, not only are you you’re exactly right, but let’s not forget that the postal service HETS NO TAXPAYER SUBSIDY. They are self-supporting. Also, you’ll be able to send that Christmas card for $5 (or maybe $2.50) IF AND ONLY IF you live in a city. If you live on a ranch in Montana, it’ll be $16. At least. Now, let’s look into the future even a little further:
People will rebel against those prices. There will be from across America: “Bring back the postal service!” We’ll be talking about it on this blog.
And folks like Suzie and terps will be calling those folks anti-freedom communists.
“After all this partisan crap is said and done, are you people saying you’re satisfied with the status quo in our public schools?”
–Chuck
Chuck, after all this partisan crap is said and done, are you people saying you’re satisfied that adding a letter grade to public schools will fix whatever deficiencies you perceive in them?
(Got those gay teen suicide stats yet?)
Right on Chuck, that is precisely what we are saying! the GOTP is “attacking minutiae to dodge an issue”. I could not have said it better myself.
I don’t think anyone should be “satisfied with the status quo in our public schools” or expect the GOTP privatization plans to fix a darned thing.
Chuck, Dan is absolutely right, 5this letter grade crap is a waste of time and money. I ALWAYS want the schools to be better. This won’t accomplish that.
“GDAD
How about you? Would it be Mt. Tremblant or Vail? Will just one of you libs answer!”
Wow, terps, you really need to chill out. It’s 7:31 and I’m just now seeing this post. I wasn’t waiting breathlessly for you to have a hissy fit. Jeez.
I have no idea where I’d rather be, but I assume I’d rather be at the place with the closest trauma center. But I know nothing about either place. I’m not a skier and I don’t intend to be one. I do know that there are plenty of places in the U.S. to ski where there’s no real close trauma center.
Hey Dan, instead of relying on bloggers to do your work for you, do some research and if your so sure of yourself, prove me wrong. I’m sure you find it easy to throw out straw man arguments and make hollow claims, but the only person you convince are your sycophants who already goose-step to your propaganda anyway.
As to the schools, the public schools have resisted every effort to grade their own performance. I am by no means convinced that “adding a letter grade to public schools will fix whatever deficiencies you perceive in them”. However, I am convinced that sticking one’s thumb squarely up one’s ass and braying incessantly to turn everything into an “us against the evil GOP” while tacitly encouraging the status quo won’t fix it either. If you have better ideas, let’s hear them.
Dan, I can can only stand so much typing on this phone. You too are exactly right. When people start wanting the post office to return, there will be cries of socialism. The government trying to nationalize a private industry. The same could happen when private, corporate education claims the government is unfairly infringing on their profits by offering to educate America’s kids.
I wonder if for $5 – $16 that Christmas card gets delivered in two days?
Grading schools & school systems is simply a distraction. I can’t speak about Virginia, but I do have some information regarding the educational challenges confronting Indiana. By the way, Indiana is already grading its schools A to F. It hasn’t done much however. What Indiana has, and I suspect Virginia is not far behind, is an educational attainment problem. Let me try to explain.
The Indiana labor force (25-64 year olds) includes nearly 800K people who lack a high school diploma. Then there are an additional 800K people who have only a high school diploma. Then there are a similar number of people who have some college but no degree. The current high school graduation rate is somewhere between 80-85%.
Indiana, and IMO, most states need to restructure K-12 curricula to get more students better prepared for college level performance. Additionally, the K-12 systems & the VCCS need to work more closely to get students not headed to bachelors degree programs trained in skill sets that have those students ready to go to work upon completion of high school. Most states need more bachelors degree graduates, but they also need graduates who are better prepared to go to work in what we used to call the trades. We also need to encourage K-12 students to prepare for such careers and understand that such positions are legitimate and permit them to earn income with which they can raise families.
It is, in my view, incumbent on us to respect and treat with dignity people who service our vehicles, repair and maintain our electrical systems, HVAC systems, etc.
For our educational system to work, we need to understand that it is akin to a 3 legged stool. Students and their effort is one leg. Teachers & support systems within the schools is a second leg. The third leg are the families of the students. All three legs of the stool have to be in place and strong in order for the whole system to work.
A to F grades for schools are not the answer. Never were.
Giving schools A-F grades strikes me as as gimmicky as a “balanced budget amendment” and a “Fair Tax”. Easy to remember, glib, and meaningless low -information voter brain candy
“Back in reality, Mt. Tremblant (where this accident occured) is 1/15th the size of Whistler and not even in the top 10 in ski resorts sizewise in Canada.”
Kristen, surely terps isn’t wrong yet AGAIN?
Warren
See above
I admit that I thought a woman wrote that post because I was a sexist pig. What else do you want me to say?
61.I repeat, literally tens of millions of Americans who are not “free to go to the pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see. No doctor is obliged to take any patient other than the ER. Doctors can refuse to see a Medicaid patient and their “choices” within that program for say eyeglasses, hearing aids and other medical aids are restricted as well. Do they get to see a doctor? Sure they do. The pediatrician of their choice” or any doctor they want to see? No. If you want “to be insulting because it bothers” you. Be precise in your broad brush generalizations.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2013 @ 4:13 pm
64.
IMO, there are more “honest libs” on this blog than honest conservatives, but in the spirit of Gina Holmes, not being a skier, if I were to undertake such an activity, I would absolutely choose a resort nearest a trauma center with a CT Scan and every bell and whistle I could afford. Canada is not the US and because we have such good services is no reason not to offer the same “vouchers” for medical care you want to offer for private schools. And you know it, you honest conservative you!
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2013 @ 4:19 pm
The premise @61 is wrong. Most people do have choice over who provides medical care to them with some restrictions, many of which are chosen by the caree not the carer via choice of insurance and personal conveniance. Other restrictions are natural ie. the area or locality where one CHOOSES to reside. There still remains choice. Even with ERs there is some limited choice as there exist more than one and care is not refused. I freely grant that ACA is designed to take us to single payer which will impose government restrictions or dictates, which would make the premise valid. At present it simply is not.
The opine at #64 is, IMO and that of a host of others, false. The faults
we find in others, more often than not, are our own. As to the premise at
#64 it is wrong. Vouchers for private school and vouchers for medical care are not the same thing…in fact…they are apples versus oranges different. Medical care and education are expenses to an individual; the
difference with school vouchers is that they represent amounts already paid for by the individual via taxes where medical vouchers represent an
entitlement as the individual has not incurred the expense. Furthermore, the cost of medical care that one will need or require is not quantifiable like the cost of education. The per capita expenditure per
student is a known statistic, if offered, most would take the like amount as a voucher for their child, particularly if the school they were publically consigned to had a FLAG!
Welcome Gina Holmes.
Perhaps you could find another anecdote to support your argument. (But it would still be an anecdote). How about telling us the closed-head-injury death rate in Canada vs the U.S.? That might be more persuasive data.
Comment by Dan Casey — February 7, 2013 @ 3:10 pm
Not so fast. . .Terps has a valid point. . .even between trauma centers as well as country. UVA specializes in burn trauma, among other things.
MCV has more specialization with head trauma and gunshots. And as the example indicates the trauma center of choice or need was in the U.S.
“Hey Dan, instead of relying on bloggers to do your work for you, do some research and if your so sure of yourself, prove me wrong. I’m sure you find it easy to throw out straw man arguments and make hollow claims, but the only person you convince are your sycophants who already goose-step to your propaganda anyway.”
-Chuck
Let’s recap!
In a cloying question he put on the Sunday column thread, Chuck asked more or less: “What I just don’t get is, if gays are more accepted than ever by society, why are more gay teens committing suicide than ever before?”
And I responded, more or less, “How do you know more gay teens are committing suicide?”
And Chuck replied that, “More teens are committing suicide, so obviously more gay teens are committing suicide.”
And I said: “Great! Prove that to us! Show us the gay teen suicide rate 10 years ago vs now.”
And there has been a great big ball o’ silence since then.
AND NOW . . . he wants me to prove his claim for him.
Chuck, you’re laugh riot, pal!
Ron,
It sounds horribly cynical to say, but those nongraduates are very valuable in the eyes of certain business and political interests. They represent people who, for the most part, will work an entire lifetime at low wages. It’s very sad to say, but it’s true, that certain people view that as desirable. (But they’re wrong).
Warren,
Note, Terps wrote “. . .because I WAS a sexist pig . . .”
I wonder if he’s giving himself wiggle room to claim he’s reformed now.
Gdad, terps entire post about this tragedy is made up,made up, made up.
“Made up ” is Alinsky code for “pulled out of his butt”.
Leon, obviously 9:51 pm is way past your bedtime. But thanks for the disjointed effort and I will be sure to note your objections and give them their due credibility.
I have it on good authority that Liam Neeson’s wife isn’t even dead. She’s an actress, right? The AMA paid her to act as if she died, so they could pin it on the Canadian health care system, which the AMA fears greatly, because the government sets the docs reimbursement rates. And it fooled just about everybody. She’s living it up in Tahiti on the pile of money they paid her. I read all about it at http:/pimpleonmybutt.blogspot.com
Unlike terps, I actually offer a real statistic regarding the mortality rate for closed head injuries in the US. 15%. Maybe, Leon, you could offer something up a statistic – ar real one – tocounter that. A statistic would NOT be “Oh there’s a trauma center down the block from me and hey, my brother in law knocked his head on a doorframe and now he’s just fine. Ergo, Amercian health care is superior.”
Or, alternatively, you could follow terps’s lead and flat make crap up and try to sell it as reality. That seems to work equally well here.
dobbs/Dan…I was thinking about the USPS as just one example…I’ve heard a lot of grum blings from current and former USPS employees about how their finances were pretty good until that act of Congress decimated their profitability. Most of them said the USPS would still be profitable today had that not been foisted upon them, and that the planned or proposed closures of distribution centers, local post offices, and cuts to the delivery schedule would probably not be needed.
The net result of those changes? A less-responsive postal service that likely still bleeds money and continues to get calls from many for it to be privatized…when in reality vast portions of it already are. They have to contract with Fedex for air shipments…they sold their fleet.
But I was also thinking of what I saw first-hand working for VDOT for over 4 years, before moving to the private sector. I watched the budgets get cut year after year, and managers grappling with less funding available, but growing needs to address. I watched maintenance schedules get reduced in frequency…mowing, brush cutting, ditch and culvert cleaning, bridge inspections, re-paving, re-striping, sign replacements…you name it. If it could get deferred, it did. The net result of deferred maintenance is it’s more expensive to maintain once you get around to it, because the condition is even worse. That’s why instead of simply doing minor rehabilitation on roads and bridges, we’re now having to completely reconstruct hundreds of bridges across the state, and tear up and rebuild thousands of lane-miles of roadway. Had we simply had the money to maintain them properly…millions of dollars would have been saved. Instead, we have infrastructure conditions that are rapidly deteriorating, and resulting in the need for new construction funds because once things get bad enough, it’s no longer a maintenance issue but a reconstruction one.
Leon, obviously 9:51 pm is way past your bedtime. But thanks for the disjointed effort and I will be sure to note your objections and give them their due credibility.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2013 @ 10:58 pm
As long as you place no more credibility on the two premises I deflated you will be OK, although still suffering from Lypocrisy.
Kristen,
To Leon, the fact that you would offer a statistic proves you’re a no-good, lily-livered subversive.
Statistics are for commies!Everybody in the Tea Party knows that!
LOL Dan. My mistake. Carry on, Leon!
“Had we simply had the money to maintain them properly…millions of dollars would have been saved. Instead, we have infrastructure conditions that are rapidly deteriorating, and resulting in the need for new construction funds because once things get bad enough, it’s no longer a maintenance issue but a reconstruction one.”
But whatever you do, don’t raise the gas tax.
Even some Repubs are admitting that something needs to be done. So what happens? McD proposes this harebrained scheme that has totally distracted everybody, which, as I said months ago, was probably his plan to begin with.
I got a nice letter from my Delegate, Mr. Yost, in the mail yesterday regarding the transportation plans, and including a link to a survey. Stinks that the letter was dated the 25th of January and I only got it yesterday…but I took the survey and wrote out my thoughts.
Most of the Governor’s proposal I am ok with…but I vehemently disagree with eliminating the gas tax and raising the sales tax…and I’m a tad bit leery of boosting the allocation to transportation because of the potential to negatively impact state funding of other obligations. Something needs to be done though…2+ decades of inaction have really put the screws to our situation, and the longer a true fix is stalled because of punting it to the next group of people in charge…or by proposing cockamamie plans that make no lick of sense, the worse we’re going to be.
I agree with raising the fuels tax (and then indexing to inflation), and levying the added fee for alternative fuel vehicles (many don’t use taxed fuel, or use a substantially reduced amount while still wearing on roads, but perhaps $100 is too high)…I’m also ok with the boost in registration fees. It may still not be a perfect long-term plan, but it’s better than the proposals out there now.
Didn’t I read someplace that the Virginia Petroleum Dealers Association endorsed increasing the gasoline tax by six cents a gallon? Sounds like a plan to me.