Va. gun permit holder: Egyptian goddess ordered him to kill 8
Christopher Speight | AP
Remember Christopher Speight? He’s the guy who methodically shot and killed 8 people in Appomattox a couple of years back, some family members, some not.
He pleaded guilty Friday and got five life terms in prison.
From the Associated Press:
“According to a statement of facts [Commonwealth's Attorney Darrel] Puckett read during the hearing, Speight told investigators that an Egyptian goddess named Jennifer told him to shoot his family because they were possessed by demons.
The others were ambushed from Speight’s perch in a tree house after they came to the house. Speight told investigators that Jennifer ordered them shot so they couldn’t help the first victims, whose bodies needed to rot, according to the statement.”
We knew back shortly after the shootings that this guy was a concealed-carry permit holder. How? Some enterprising reporter simply went to a court clerk’s office and asked for the information.
But soon, that kind of info may be private.
The Virginia General Assembly has passed a bill to keep that kind of information under wraps in the future. If Gov. Bob McDonnell signs it (odds are he will), we will never know if the next Virginia insaniac who shoots and kills multiple people was licensed by the state to carry a concealed weapon.
More from the story:
Family members and others who knew Speight said at the time of the shootings that he had a history of mental problems and had been obsessed with the mistaken notion that his sister, Lauralee Sipe, was plotting to kick him out of the house on 34 acres that they inherited after their mother’s death in 2006.
Five months after the shootings, a judge sent Speight to a state mental hospital for treatment after a psychologist found the defendant was too mentally ill to assist his lawyers or stand trial. The case remained on hold for the next couple of years as attorneys dealt with pretrial motions and awaited additional mental evaluations.
February 15, 2013 - 9:45 PM
“The Virginia General Assembly has passed a bill to keep that kind of information under wraps in the future. If Gov. Bob McDonnell signs it (odds are he will), we will never know if the next Virginia insaniac who shoots and kills multiple people was licensed by the state to carry a concealed weapon.”
And neither will Christian Trejbal!
The Roanoke Times just loves posting every CHP holder’s address. That herring you have, I think it’s red.
Apparently they are tired of us knowing the careless, angry, murderers had a concealed carry permit which means they are a law abiding citizen…
The legal challenges to determine if such an unusual public records exemption is valid will likely take some time, regardless of whether any injunctions stay the bill’s effect, so the outcome in Va. (and similar cases elsewhere) is not certain.
If my nutty neighbor down the road has a concealed carry permit, I have the right to know about it. For my protection and his.
They never should have given that guy a concealed handgun permit. If he hadn’t had that permit he wouldn’t have been able to kill anyone. Damn piece of paper.
Comment by md — February 15, 2013 @ 10:23 pm
Why should that be any different than my driver’s license which is public information?
Why do we allow mentally ill people to run loose so they can kill us?
Didn’t William White get nailed for publishing a judge’s public information?
Ron May:
“Why should that be any different than my driver’s license which is public information?”
One: Bearing arms is a right, but driving on public roads is a privilege. We should not have to obtain a state-issued permission slip to wear a jacket while we carry in the first place.
Two: Our drivers’ licenses are not public information.
I think we need a bill to hide the identities of people who own First Amendment vehicles like newspapers. After all, folks get mad at them and might want to know who they are.
Concealed carry is not a right. It’s allowed by permit, issued by the state.
John W, give us some semi-logical reason Christian or anybody else shouldn’t know. We can know virtually anything else about a person like this, but not that.
Oh, that’s right, gun lovers are embarrassed when one of their own goes bonkers, so best to cover that up.
Dan:
“Concealed carry is not a right. It’s allowed by permit, issued by the state.”
Concealed carry is a right curtailed by the state until you pay them. There, fixed it for you.
Gdad,
Don’t you know: Publishing the addresses of concealed carry holders puts them at risk for robbery. Criminals know where the guns are now so they can target those home to steal them. SIMULTANEOUSLY, it also endangers non-concealed carry holders. Why? Because criminals now know where the guns AREN’T, and they’ll target those undefended homes. With the guns they stole from the defended homes.
Don’t you get it? It’s PERFECTLY CLEAR!
“Oh, that’s right, gun lovers are embarrassed when one of their own goes bonkers, so best to cover that up.”
I don’t think it’s exactly that, gdad. Rather:
1) Gun lovers love the liberalized (and it’s getting more liberalized every year) state of gun regulation in Virginia.
2) Part of that is the CHP, and the legislature liberalized the rule surrounding that almost every years, too.
3) Unfortunately, the state has been handing these rather willy-nilly. When a malevolent or insane person with a Va. permit kills a bunch of people (and that is rare, though it has happened before this and will happen again) and the permit status of the killer comes out, it calls into question whether Va. is properly regulating these things. Pressure begins building for more regulation.
4) And the gun lovers don’t like that.
This is one of the reasons, but not the only one, that they want this stuff kept secret.
gdad:
“John W, give us some semi-logical reason Christian or anybody else shouldn’t know.”
Victims of abusive exes who don’t want their abuser/abuser’s family to know where he/she lives. Parole and probation officers don’t need a directory to their door, either. Both of these things actually happened when Christian published the list. It was reckless and he should have apologized.
By the way, a pretty rich question coming from someone who values his own privacy so much he posts anonymously. You’re no one to talk.
Dan, I’d think simply expanding Constitutional carry from open-only to discreet-optional, would solve all of this.
Four states have it now and no one is stacking bodies as a result.
John Wilburn, simply making a concealed carry permit actually mean something would solve all this too.
Well Dan, you and your gang are always good for a chuckle.
“we will never know if the next Virginia insaniac who shoots and kills multiple people was licensed by the state to carry a concealed weapon.”
Why do you think it is any of your business who has a CHP? One vetted by the State Police and signed by a Judge? By your logic, why don’t you publish a list of everyone who buys a firearm on a daily, or weekly, basis so you can be sure the public is aware of all the “insaniac’s” out there and not just the one’s issued a CHP?
It is convenient for you to not mention that all gun sales by dealers are checked by the State Police and not just CHP holders. I’d personally be relieved if you’d just admit you were a communist along with most who comment here.
IIRC, there was a time in Virginia when any citizen could get the name and address of the owner of a vehicle with a given license plate, by just asking the State.
Would you champion returning to that, also?
Or might the anguish be in great part a matter of WYSDWYS (Where You Sit Determines Where You Stand / Where You Sit Determines What You See) or NIMBY?
John W, I asked why this sort of information about a guy who killed 8 people should remain private. You didn’t answer. No need to get all huffy on us again.
BTW, I know a probation officer very well. Anybody who wants to can find this person easily without a list of gun carriers.
Re: Dan Casey @ 11:19 pm
and
Re: gdad @ 12:21 am
I, for one have no problem with a wide range of information about an individual who has been found guilty of a crime being made public.
IMHO, the issue here is the right of some degree privacy for folk who in the eyes of the law are considers not guilty of a crime — presumed innocent.
I do not see how this man having a CCP factors into his actions. He didn’t walk into a school or crowd and start shooting. He laid in wait at his home and shot his sister and first responders, etc. He didn’t need any permit to do that and the fact that he had a permit simply means nothing in this state. The article doesn’t say but I’m assuming further he had a rifle and not a concealable hand gun since his location (tree house) would have called for a much longer shot than had he used a hand gun. Its unfortunate but he could have waited in the house and used a knife to obtain the same results.
“Jennifer?” I was pulling for Isis.
19.John Wilburn, simply making a concealed carry permit actually mean something would solve all this too.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 15, 2013 @ 11:50 pm
? A CCP does mean something? Remember that a CCP holder, or not, ie. . .anyone; can strap on a holster and openly carry. That you see
little open carry is demonstative of the self-restraint and discipline
of gun owners in general. Our society recognizes this; accordingly the
CCP becomes a courtesy to law enforcement allowing them to know, often in advance, if the vehicle or individual they are encountering has a firearm.
For the LEOs having such information, particularly if it is positive, is
comforting, since CCP holders as a group are amongst our most law abiding and sensible citizens.
While Speight was an exception, whether or not he possessed a CCP had no bearing, nor correlation, on the crime he committed. Speight’s actions were the result of mental issues. BTW; Speight used a long gun in the shootings and I know of no one who obtains a CCP for long guns.
Dan’s spiel does beg the question: Why should any newpaper which reports after the fact or, the general public, have any access to the CCP listing?
The bill has merit and should be law. I would support an amendment to require, on the CCP application, the question: Are you an insaniac? YES-NO. This would facilitate identification of the real problem people (not guns) and should also be considered for all governmental applications such as driver’s licenses, voter registration applications, professional licenses, business licenses, etc. . .etc. . .or. . .why not just a forehead stamp: INSANIAC.
16.gdad:
“John W, give us some semi-logical reason Christian or anybody else shouldn’t know.”
Victims of abusive exes who don’t want their abuser/abuser’s family to know where he/she lives. Parole and probation officers don’t need a directory to their door, either. Both of these things actually happened when Christian published the list. It was reckless and he should have apologized.
By the way, a pretty rich question coming from someone who values his own privacy so much he posts anonymously. You’re no one to talk.
Comment by John Wilburn — February 15, 2013 @ 11:23 pm
Second. I know, I’m no one to talk too. . .but I’m just sayin. . .privacy
is a right too!
Right you are, Dan, it’s much more serious than embarrassment.
Back on the old anonymity kick, there, John W? Heck, I’m still trying to figure out who “Jack” is based on that photo.
BTW, I see that voter ID passed. I’m concerned that the government is going to use this as some sort of tracking method. Next thing you know, they’ll even allow access to to your address through voting rolls and info about whether or not you voted.
Oh, wait, they already do that.
From the above…“Had a HISTORY of MENTAL ILLNESS“….There enlies the problem.
I am in the middle on this one. If the concealed carry permit was pertinent to the crime, then I believe it should be revealed. Otherwise, privacy wins.
Poser: If there were a law enacted that made it illegal to own a gun, how many millions upon millions upon wonderful millions of guns would still be owned by the people of this GREAT COUNTRY ? My two cents ? Probably millions upon millions upon wonderful millions. Might as well learn to live with it.
“Second. I know, I’m no one to talk too. . .but I’m just sayin. . .privacy
is a right too!”
–Leon
That’s what SCOTUS ruled in Rove v. Wade, though that “right” remains very controversial.
where does one get a permit to drive drunk and kill,where does one get a permit to text while driving,wreck and kill someone?I bet you gun haters do these two things,it’s a matter of time before someone is killed by these crazies,thats ok theres money to be made from alcohol.
Well Atwood, based on this story and the one about the kid who shot his brother….it seems that family members are the ones who realize the most benefit from gun ownership. Since I wouldn’t allow one in my home, this doesn’t seem to be my problem. So maybe you’ll have to “live with it”. Or maybe , die with it.
Make up your mind Gdad…Either continue to back up your messiah, obama, thereby backing big-government, or whine about it as in #29. What satifies a liberal ? Obviously nothing. As all can plainly see, they just like to whine. Must be the Estrogen.
So not only the mentally ill get to own and carry…so do terrorists. You know, terrorists have Second Amendment rights too, dontcha’ know…
According to a Fox News report, more than 200 people on the terror watch list bought guns in 2010 alone.”
“FBI: 247 People on Terror Watch List Bought Guns in U.S. in 2010″
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/28/fbi-247-people-terro-watch-list-bought-guns-2010/#ixzz2L4rdxjS5
how about posting the names of local registered democrats in the roanoke times. i could keep an eye on my nutty neighbors and the insanics one block over. i need to know who these people are so i can protect my rights, family, property, guns and the american flag from those who think i have way too much and want to take them away.
congratulations, the radical leftwing is killing this country one day at a time. you’ve managed to do it without a carry permit or even firing a shot!
It’s true that the CHP had nothing to do with the death’s of Speight’s victims. The point never was that it did, or to smear others with CHP permits.
The point is, beyond a cursory criminal background check, Virginia is incredibly (and quite deliberately) lax in the way they hand these things out. The mental health part seems to be based entirely on self-reporting. I don’t know about the question regarding whether the applicant is the subject of a restraining order. Does anyone else? Does Virginia maintain such a database of individuals subject to a restraining order? Or is that another “we’re gonna trust the applicant to tell us the truth” question?
“how about posting the names of local registered democrats in the roanoke times. i could keep an eye on my nutty neighbors and the insanics one block over. i need to know who these people are so i can protect my rights, family, property, guns and the american flag from those who think i have way too much and want to take them away.
congratulations, the radical leftwing is killing this country one day at a time. you’ve managed to do it without a carry permit or even firing a shot!”
–stephen a
stephen a,
Is it a fact that voters register by party affiliation in Virginia? Or are you saying you believe that, therefore it must be true?
“Gun worshippers are too vile to recogize that mass murdering shooters are also gun worshippers.”
“There’s an NRA “enemies” list! How do you get on it? By being non-archaic, non-paranoid & non-violent.”
from writer Sherman Alexie’s twitter feed
John Wilburn & others,
I agree with Bill O’Reilly that all firearms should be registered & a matter of public record. Anyone should have access to that public record and newspapers or other organizations should be able to publish the names of registered firearm owners.
When the Indianapolis Star & other Indiana newspapers accessed public records of CCP holders to reveal the number of convicted felons who were on the list and have been permitted by local sheriffs to get those permits a lot of law enforcement folks were embarrassed. To cover their incompetence they went to the legislature and got a bill similar to the one proposed in Virginia passed in Indiana. Obviously the Indiana legislature & the Sheriffs Association was more concerned about covering up their incompetence than protecting the public from people having guns who shouldn’t have them.
Why don’t we focus on the larger killers in our society-chips and soft drinks major contributers of obesity,fast food,cigarettes and alcohol. All these products are produced by companies that have a license to kill. Where is the outrage?
“Why don’t we focus on the larger killers in our society-chips and soft drinks major contributers of obesity,fast food,cigarettes and alcohol. All these products are produced by companies that have a license to kill. Where is the outrage?”
–River Runner
First, perhaps you are unaware of public health campaigns that have been waged against all of the above. Some have been successful to an extent (cigarettes) and others are less so, although the one against obesity is still gaining steam.
Second, under the “logic” of your question, the polio vaccine never would have been developed because it wasn’t the #1 killer of people when it was developed. I doubt that you wish it had never been developed. Do you now understand the illogic of your question?
River Runner, the outrage comes when people like Mayor Bloomberg, try to limit people from buying those products. The screaming that it’s our right to eat and drink what we please comes out loud and clear. Michelle Obama is ridiculed for wanting children to be taught about proper nutrition, to stem childhood obesity.
dan, it’s just like texas tavern chile
This is one of the reasons, but not the only one, that they want this stuff kept secret.
Comment by Dan Casey — February 15, 2013 @ 11:19 pm
Bull, gun ownership is a conserative and positive principal. It is part
of our Constitution and we are all (ALL) safer for it.
“dan, it’s just like texas tavern chile”
–stephen a
Which exists, and is therefore a fact.
Are you saying that it’s a fact that Virginia voters register by party affiliation?
I agree with Bill O’Reilly that all firearms should be registered & a matter of public record. Anyone should have access to that public record and newspapers or other organizations should be able to publish the names of registered firearm owners.
Comment by Ron May — February 16, 2013 @ 11:36 am
Bull, better to assume everyone is packing. Makes us all safer even against when confronted by an INSANIAC which have limits to their insanity. When confronted with armed opposition they generally shoot themselves.
Why can’t you liberal progressives admit this assualt on the second amendment is about control; not safety, security and/or commons sense.
44.“Why don’t we focus on the larger killers in our society-chips and soft drinks major contributers of obesity,fast food,cigarettes and alcohol. All these products are produced by companies that have a license to kill. Where is the outrage?”
–River Runner
First, perhaps you are unaware of public health campaigns that have been waged against all of the above. Some have been successful to an extent (cigarettes) and others are less so, although the one against obesity is still gaining steam.
Second, under the “logic” of your question, the polio vaccine never would have been developed because it wasn’t the #1 killer of people when it was developed. I doubt that you wish it had never been developed. Do you now understand the illogic of your question?
Comment by Dan Casey — February 16, 2013 @ 12:02 pm
I fail to see how River Runner’s point is less logical than Dan’s premise that CCP holders should be public information. Even if the public had the information what difference would it make. On any given day, at any
given place, at any given time. . .how many people do you know of those surrounding you. Illogical is a liberal progressive trait as demonstrated by Dan’s view.
We may need all the guns we can get,
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-denver-airport-rabbits-20130215,0,1745323.story
Yes Debbie. Michelle Obama wanting to talk about fitness and vegetables is a kommunistick incursion into our porky American way of life, and not to be tolerated.
39.It’s true that the CHP had nothing to do with the death’s of Speight’s victims. The point never was that it did, or to smear others with CHP permits.
The point is, beyond a cursory criminal background check, Virginia is incredibly (and quite deliberately) lax in the way they hand these things out. The mental health part seems to be based entirely on self-reporting. I don’t know about the question regarding whether the applicant is the subject of a restraining order. Does anyone else? Does Virginia maintain such a database of individuals subject to a restraining order? Or is that another “we’re gonna trust the applicant to tell us the truth” question?
Comment by Dan Casey — February 16, 2013 @ 11:14 am
Not the point, really Dan? Is the point then “rights should be infringed”
or “we should all just open carry”?
IMO, you’ve made no point. . .just Lypocrisy on display.
33.“Second. I know, I’m no one to talk too. . .but I’m just sayin. . .privacy
is a right too!”
–Leon
That’s what SCOTUS ruled in Rove v. Wade, though that “right” remains very controversial.
Comment by Dan Casey — February 16, 2013 @ 10:19 am
Nice dodge, Dan. Not apples to apples however. Regarding Roe (know you got Karl on the brain) there is far more known about conception than when
the decision was rendered. As to control, recent information as well as historical statistics continue to reveal we are safer with them and CCP holders to boot.
22.John W, I asked why this sort of information about a guy who killed 8 people should remain private. You didn’t answer. No need to get all huffy on us again.
BTW, I know a probation officer very well. Anybody who wants to can find this person easily without a list of gun carriers.
Comment by gdad — February 16, 2013 @ 12:21 am
You’re blowing smoke Gdad. Speight was a security guard!
11.Concealed carry is not a right. It’s allowed by permit, issued by the state.
Comment by Dan Casey — February 15, 2013 @ 11:09 pm
Solution = OPEN CARRY
“Solution = OPEN CARRY”
–Leon
OMG. Leon and I agree on something.
Why can’t you liberal progressives admit this assualt on the second amendment is about control; not safety, security and/or commons sense.
Comment by Leon — February 16, 2013 @ 12:27 pm
Nowhere in my proposal Leon, does it deny you the right to have firearms. They just have to be registered and on the public record. I’m not in any way, shape or form, attacking the 2nd Amendment.
#36 Not too shocking that my comment went whizzing WAAAAY over your head, Awood. I was wondering which right winger would react like this first.
Hmmm, stephen thinks we register by party in Virginia and river runner thinks nobody has tried to go after cigarettes, alcohol, and obesity. Weird.
Mr. Speight’s mental health may have been fine when he applied for his CCP. He obviously lost it at the time of the shootings, but he ultimately received life terms in PRISON. He was not sent to a mental health facility, I fail to see the issue with his CCP.
Blue John,
Speight had had his permit for 10 years. They are good only for 5, which means he renewed it 5 or fewer years prior to the slaughter. There are suggestions in the story that he had mentally health issues going back years. All of which goes to point out Virginia’s incredibly lax regulation of these things, and gun advocates’ desperation to cover that up.
Dan,
I have relatives that think I’m crazy, and I KNOW they are (right wingers), but a background check wouldn’t indicate our concerns. I have no doubt Va. should conduct more thorough background checks, but unless the courts had prior involvement, nothing would show up. Too bad Va. couldn’t implement a progressive permitting process as a model for other states, rather than remaining mediocre and a puppet of the NRA.
I think this psychopath just decided that an “Egyptian goddess named Jennifer” was better than death row. He got a CCP the same way everyone else does because there really is nothing in the current system to prevent even the most critical sociopath, deeply psychotic, evil or hate-filled person from being lucid long enough to gain the privilege that is not the least bit hard to get, maintain, regulated or has any oversight. Paranoia is a mental illness too and plenty of gun carriers have it.