Walk don’t ride on the Wednesday OPEN thread
Shot by Dan along the Roanoke River greenway in Salem
“Come Fairies, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame!”
William Butler Yeats
February 27, 2013 - 10:00 AM
Some recent change in the Beta caused this page and many other blogs like Arts and Extras and Fridge Magnet to bork. Your nav bar displays the links as text, the images don’t start until the ad bar that normally splits the roanoke.com header from the WP blog, and everything below that is overlapping by about 3cm. Looking at a page with comments (the Michele Bachmann one that originally brought me here), the comment boxes are overlapping each other by the same 3cm and the name and timestamp info is mashed together on the left-hand side of each comment box.
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tl;dr: The Beta looks like a Picasso painting this morning. o.O
Here’s a link to an article that provides 5 common sense Defense Department cuts that could more than satisfy the sequestration cuts in the Defense Department. I wonder if Congress will have the cahones to make this kind of cut instead of senseless across the board cuts.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-02-25/five-military-cuts-that-would-fix-sequestration#p1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26/gregory-lanier-shot-by-dog_n_2767677.html
Dog bites man…
Good luck with that, Ron. No matter what right wingers try to tell you, government spending DOES create jobs and make multimillionaires. Those who benefit don’t want to give that up. Including “fiscal conservatives.”
My wife and I enjoy walking along the greenway, but as others have mentioned, the bike riders and runners who are overtaking walkers should announce their presence. Simply saying “on your left” before you overtake someone would be fine. None of the riders and runners we have encountered have done this. As a result we have come close to colliding with a number of folks. We always stay far to the right, but we do need enough room to walk side by side. Please just let us know when you are overtaking. We will stay out of your way. Promise.
I guess common sense is too much to ask our elected representatives.
http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?ps=931&rip_id=%3CDA4MS27G0%40news.ap.org%3E&news_id=19343932&src=most_popular_viewed
GAO reports says obamacare to add $6.2 trillion to long term debt. It is apparent that many on this blog support Obama. I would be embarrased if I were you! Sorry, there just no nice comment I can make for those of you who defend obamacare, and for that matter, Obama.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/341589/gao-report-obamacare-adds-62-trillion-long-term-deficit-andrew-stiles
Hi Ron,
Regarding your links above, which involve alternative courses of action for government to take concerning the sequester…I think you are missing the most important thing…which is understanding how we got here in the first place. The sequester was created by and proposed by the obama white house, and was approved by the house, senate, and obama. In late 2011, obama refused to allow any changes to the sequester, saying he “would veto any changes…”. During the 3rd presidential debate, obama said several times that the sequester “would not be” changed. Consequently, given his historic flip-flop, I believe obama should be in Washington, DC, trying to find a solution. Yes, that might mean actually negotiating, not demanding and demagoguing, the republicans.
Consider what Bob Woodward had to say this morning, to which I provided a link below: “I think peoples’ heads are about to explode about all this, you know, what the hell is going on?” Woodward went on to say, “I’m not sure the white house understands exactly what happened in all of these negotiations at the end of 2011 with the sequester and the super committee, because they were really on the sidelines.”
I figure libs will take Bob Woodward seriously, even if they won’t admit it. And, I think most folks on Dan’s blog take you seriously, even if they don’t all agree with you. Therefore, what’s your take on how we ended up here, with the sequester getting ready to smack us? And, should the republicans just turn over the responsibility for enacting the sequester budget cuts to obama?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bob-woodward-tears-into-obama-with-veiled-nixonian-criticism-madness-that-i-havent-seen-in-a-long-time/
Ron may
Thanks for the link. It confirms my suspicion that our military is currently constituted to fight the wrong wars.
I believe both sides are being less than truthful about the debt. To my friends on the left, it is clearly not possible to balance the budget (or even come close) by “soaking the rich”. It might feel good to you, but the money raised is a drop in the bucket. On the other hand, the right seems intent on trying to balance the budget by having the government renege on its obligations to Social Security and Medicare. The right calls this making government accountable. Must be a new definition of accountable, because to someone who has paid into these programs for OVER 40 YEARS, it seems like breach of contract.
Ron,
Also concerning obama’s remarks yesterday, here’s another Bob Woodward quote (is shown in the earlier link above) which I also feel bears mention: “Under the Constitution, the president is commander-in-chief and employs the force. And so we now have the president going out…because of this piece of paper, and this agreement, ….I can’t do what I need to do to protect the country”, Woodward says. “That’s a kind of madness that I haven’t seen in a long time.”
Does that seem like a reasonable thing for Woodward to have said about obama?
Oh, and did you hear, the white house says janet napolitano released those illegal immigrants being held in Arizona…all due to squestration…which hasn’t yet happened? Is obama leading his people?
A walk down memory lane.
This past November, Republicans did not defeat President Obama even though, according to Mitch McConnell, that would be their goal throughout the President’s first term.
In fact, this President received 51% of the vote – and he became the first president in more than five decades to win two elections with 51%+ of the popular vote. It would have been virtually impossible “to steal” this election, as some have claimed, with the level of participation and the number of votes cast.
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If the economy and the country were in such dire straits, and Americans were so dissatisfied and anxious to “make a change” [as the republican meme went], then why didn’t voters elect Romney,or, hand over a Senate majority to republicans? Instead, the President was re-elected and there was an actual increase in Democratic senators.
Only by republicans gerrymandering districts, did the GOP retain control in the House – and that without even a majority of the popular vote.
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Voters knew what this President stood for, what policies he would champion, and they voted accordingly.
Still, republicans somehow believe a winning strategy is holding the US economy hostage – failing to negotiate on the “sequester” – continuing legislative intransigence, and ultimately obstructing any move forward. The GOP’s plan of destroying the economy, and then telling the American people that -“only republicans can fix it” – demonstrates their continuance of a failed policy, and that they have learned NOTHING from the last election.
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And the proof that the republicans are tone deaf to the American public’s viewpoint:
— ☻IF SPENDING IS CUT, GOP WILL GET THE BLAME
http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/02/26/National-Politics/Polling/question_9894.xml?uuid=pAQt7H_AEeKmcQMHOS3o3g — ☻ON ISSUES, PUBLIC IS MORE ALIGNED WITH OBAMA THAN GOP
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/21/poll-pew-obama-gop-guns-energy-immigration-sequester/1934233/
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End of rant…
Granny get your gun.
http://news.yahoo.com/cops-grandma-shot-self-young-grandsons-car-145334468.html
Wally W. & Frank,
Below is a quote from a report about deficits and debt written by the St. Louis Federal Reserve in about 2008 I think. The link to the full report is also below. The Republicans & GWB passed and he signed the Medicare Part D Act and put it on the credit card. That unfunded portion of Medicare adds $8.4 Trillion to the financial liability our government holds. Of course GWB 7 his colleagues also put two wars on the credit national card. Actually those expenditures were classified as “off budget.” It’s an interesting accounting move when you can get away with it. Since FY 2010, the first budget Pres. Obama was responsible for moved those expenditures into the budget so that they showed up when the total annual deficit was calculated. That didn’t happen from FY 2002 thru FY 2009. The deficits, if you look at them, don’t look too bad. But then close to $500 Billion a year was “off budget” each of those years.
“Medicare Part D (prescription drug coverage) adds another $8.4 trillion. All told, the shortfall for government social insurance programs comes to a present value of $40.9 trillion. This is the government’s official estimate.”
http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=1002
http://tinyurl.com/cp83443
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No charges expected in self-defense shooting death
Feb. 27, 2013 7:37 AM
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BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — No charges are expected to be filed against a man who fatally shot an intruder trying to force his way into his home over the weekend.
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SNIP
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Let’s put 100 million more guns on the streets. That will make us all safer.
http://news.yahoo.com/2-police-officers-killed-calif-suspect-dead-092131846.html
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/06/gunfire_death_rate_in_louisian.html
“Louisiana has the nation’s highest rate of death by gunfire, with a rate that far exceeds the national average, according to a recent study by a Washington nonprofit that considers gun violence a public-health issue. ”
DaveHicks, I doubt most people would want to aspire to imitate Louisiana’s gun use model. Some would, maybe.
from the CQ Roll Call Daily Briefing email
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SNIP
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BEEN HERE, DONE THIS: Where this budget battle is headed has looked pretty clear for a while now, and today it became all but official.
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The fifth fiscal countdown clock of the past two years will wind down to zero without any negotiations (either formal photo ops or real back-channel talks) to stop the sequester ahead of time; that much was made clear by the revelation that the first talks between the principals won’t happen before Friday — a timetable that, if nothing else, will afford Boehner and Reid an opportunity to discuss who is more stuck on his own behind. More importantly, the House Republicans announced that they would meet behind closed doors this afternoon to begin discussing their options for stopping countdown clock No. 6 — ticking toward the March 27 expiration of the law that’s allowed the federal government to remain open since the fall. The result of the caucus will be a plan to pass next week a bill to replace that appropriations statute with another one that allocates the coming spending cuts differently over the next seven months than the across-the-board approach now on tap. In other words, the sequester debate and the midyear CR debate are now merging.
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SNIP
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(Since the bill is not going to be a comprehensive “omnibus” rewrite and update of all the dozen measures that normally govern such spending, Congress will write line-by-line exceptions — or else the agencies will have no choice but to keep their spending at status-quo-minus-a-haircut levels.)
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SNIP
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Ron, what’s your point? Bush was stupid with Medicare part D so Obama has the right to double down on being stupid? The $s aren’t there.
Hi Ron,
Your post at #12, which references me, makes no reference to the two posts, nor their subject matter, above which I addressed to you (8 and 10), and did so in response to your posts at #s2 and 6. All of the above (except your post at #12) deal with the sequestration. When you have time, please let me know your thoughts on my response to your two earlier posts.
Thank you.
Re: #12, Dave Hicks, now if you’ll post several dozen new such examples every day, day in and day out, you’ll make a small start to catching up with the thousands of examples of gun violence that you ignore on an ongoing basis. But oh, that’s right, you’re so committed to an honest appraisal of every issue, you’d never rely on emphasizing a few supportive examples over many thousands of unsupportive examples. Keep ‘em abstract, Dave, you do it so well!
http://tinyurl.com/cmtqhtk
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Despite emotional hearing, weapons ban given little chance of passing
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By Tom Cohen, CNN
updated 4:19 PM EST, Wed February 27, 2013
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Washington (CNN) — It may be politically quixotic, but Sen. Dianne Feinstein proceeded undeterred Wednesday in seeking an updated version of the assault weapons ban she sponsored in 1994 that expired a decade later.
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SNIP
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At the conclusion of Wednesday’s Judiciary Committee hearing, Feinstein acknowledged the challenge, saying: “It’s an uphill climb.”
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SNIP
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Former Rep. Sandy Adams, R-Florida, said it was not the time for “feel-good legislation so you can say you did something.”
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“Taking guns from law-abiding citizens while leaving them defenseless against violent criminals, who by their very definition do not abide by the law, is not the answer and it is definitely not the right thing to do,” she said in her opening statement.
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SNIP
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According to Reid, a bill from the Judiciary Committee was unlikely to include an updated weapons ban, but he would allow a vote on the provision during floor debate.
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Such a vote would amount to Feinstein’s last stand on the issue.
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http://tinyurl.com/cmtqhtk
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Oscar Winners, Welfare Recipients
FROM WATCHDOGWIRE
Oscar Winners, Welfare Recipients
oscars
Big handouts for Hollywood
February 27, 2013
by Kevin Palmer
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Did you watch the Oscars Sunday night? Wonder how Hollywood stars can afford to live as they do, with limousines and designer dresses?
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Well, you’re paying for it—if you live in one of the more than 40 states that give tax handouts to the movie industry.
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Louisiana, for example, gave an $8.4 million subsidy to a big Hollywood studio so that Django Unchained would be filmed in-state. Ditto for Ben Affleck and George Clooney’s Argo, which got over $6 million in tax credits from California. Virginia paid $3.5 million for Lincoln. Meanwhile, states are going bankrupt and running out of money for basic services like education.
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It’s not just Oscar winners who are cashing in on taxpayer money. Walt Disney Pictures took over $100 million in federal tax credits in 2010, and then over $180 million in 2011. Horror film kingpin M. Night Shyamalan has raked in $48 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania. Tennessee throws tax money at any Hollywood studio willing to produce a country-themed film.
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SNIP
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Frank,
Below is a link which explains my response to your original comment. It’s clear that Woodward & the White House are in a rope pushing contest (that’s not I wanted to say) over said what when about the sequester. Woodward can’t believe that anyone would question his recollection of events. However, as the link below points out, the White House is not alone in questioning what Woodward said about what the White House proposed during the lead up to the passage of the 2011 Budget Control Act.
“Slate political reporter David Weigel says Woodward’s own book on the subject (“The Price of Politics”) debunks his Washington Post op-ed column.”
“To argue that the White House is ‘moving the goal posts’ when it now asks for revenue in a sequestration replacement, you have to toss out the fact that the White House always wanted revenue in the supercommittee’s sequestration replacement,” Weigel writes. “This isn’t confusing unless reporters make it confusing.”
“Talking Points Memo senior congressional reporter Brian Beutler asserts that “Woodward is just dead wrong.”
“Obama and Democrats have always insisted that a balanced mix of spending cuts and higher taxes replace sequestration,” Beutler writes. “It’s true that John Boehner wouldn’t agree to include new taxes in the enforcement mechanism itself, and thus that the enforcement mechanism he and Obama settled upon – sequestration – is composed exclusively of spending cuts.”
“But the entire purpose of an enforcement mechanism is to make sure that the enforcement mechanism is never triggered,” he continues. “The key question is what action it was designed to compel. And on that score, the Budget Control Act is unambiguous.”
I don’t see or hear Woodward questioning Weigel or Beutler in their different recollections of the 2011 discussions.
Woodward has his pants in a wad because the White House had the audacity to question the “greatest reporter of all time” “in his own mind.”
Sorry Frank,
Here is the link I forgot to attach to the earlier message.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0224/Why-are-Bob-Woodward-and-the-White-House-arguing-over-the-sequester/(page)/2
Wally W | February 27, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Wally,
Below is the language from the actual GAO Report your link referred to. Reading it you will find that you relied on FOX News and Rush Limbaugh versions of the report. I provide a link to the whole report at the bottom. So you see there is a substantial difference between the legacy of debt GWB and the Republican congress left us and the potential cost of the Affordable Care Act. The Truth Will Set You Free Wally W!!!
Report Actually Says Federal Deficit Will Decline If Health Care Law Is Fully Implemented
GAO: Health Care Law Will Increase Deficit Only If Cost-Containment Provisions Are “Phased Out Over Time.” The GAO report cited by Sessions and conservative media looked at two scenarios and found that the health care law will increase the long-term deficit under a scenario in which cost-cutting provisions of the law are phased out:
The effect of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), enacted in March 2010, on the long-term fiscal outlook depends largely on whether elements in PPACA designed to control cost growth are sustained.
[...]
The Fall 2010 Alternative simulation assumed cost containment mechanisms specified in PPACA were phased out over time while the additional costs associated with expanding federal health care coverage remained. Under these assumptions, the long-term outlook worsened slightly compared to the pre-PPACA January 2010 simulation. [Government Accountability Office, January 2013]
GAO: “Notable Improvement” In Outlook If “Both The Expansion Of Health Care Coverage And The Full Implementation And Effectiveness Of The Cost-Containment Provisions” Are Sustained. According to the GAO report, “[T]here was notable improvement in the longer-term outlook after the enactment of [the health care law] under GAO’s Fall 2010 Baseline Extended simulation, which assumes both the expansion of health care coverage and the full implementation and effectiveness of the cost-containment provisions over the entire 75-year simulation period.” [Government Accountability Office, January 2013]
The Hill: $6.2 Trillion Figure Assumes Cost-Containment Measures End, But Deficit “Will Decline” If The Health Care Law Remains Fully Implemented. The Hill reported that the health care law “could increase or decrease the deficit over the next 75 years depending on whether its cost-saving provisions survive” and that the $6.2 trillion figure assumes a scenario “in which the law’s cost-containment measures end.” From The Hill:
In a new report, the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that President Obama’s signature law could increase or decrease the deficit over the next 75 years depending on whether its cost-saving provisions survive.
[...]
Assuming the law is enforced as-is, the U.S. deficit will decline 1.5 percent as a share of the economy over the next 75 years, according to the GAO. Auditors attributed 1.2 percent of this improvement to the Affordable Care Act.
Under a different set of assumptions, the law has the opposite effect over time, the GAO said — the deficit will increase by 0.7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) if the law’s cost-containment measures are phased out.
The report attributed this potential increase in part to the law’s most expensive features — the Medicaid expansion and the provision of insurance subsidies.
The report was requested by Sen. Jeff Sessions (Ala.), the top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee. On Tuesday, he and his office jumped on the figures to say that the healthcare law will increase the deficit by $6.2 trillion over 75 years.
To arrive at this figure, Sessions’s office assumed the second scenario, in which the law’s cost-containment measures end, and added up 75 year’s [sic] worth of deficits using GDP projections from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. [The Hill, 2/26/13]
CBO Previously Found That Health Care Law Reduces The Deficit
CBO: Repealing Health Care Law “Would Increase Federal Budget Deficits By $109 Billion Over The 2013-2022 Period.” In July 2012, the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation released a report finding that repealing the health care law would increase the deficit by $109 billion from 2013 to 2022:
On net, CBO and JCT estimate, repealing the ACA would increase federal budget deficits by $109 billion over the 2013-2022 period. Repealing the coverage provisions discussed in this report would save $1,171 billion over that period, but repealing the rest of the act would increase direct spending and reduce revenues by a total of $1,280 billion. [Congressional Budget Office, 7/24/12]
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/02/26/conservative-media-echo-misleading-gop-claim-on/192809
Ron, I guess we can call the exchange of links “the sequester’s dueling bangos’, or links, I guess. The end result is you’re all in for obama, and I’m not. i think the guy got his tax increases eight weeks ago, and is going full bore in exploiting the cover of the sequester to illegally release illigal detainees, frighten his low-information voters, and demagogue the repubs into even more tax revenue.
By the way, do you think it would be a good idea for the repubs to turn over to obama the authority to determine the spending cuts…who gets what, when?
Ron May
You’re confusing them with facts. That’s not what Faux, Rush, Sean,
and the tea party are telling them. They understand the truth which is that
Obama’s name is attached to it so it must be bad. No amount of facts will convince them otherwise.
“Consider what Bob Woodward had to say this morning…”
I don’t listen to douchebags. Don’t like the sequester? Repeal it.
Just the latest Republican manufactured crisis. Ho hum…
Wow!
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Read the whole story.
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http://tinyurl.com/cu49dmy
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Feb 27, 6:31 PM EST
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Huge study: 5 mental disorders share genetic links
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By LAURAN NEERGAARD
AP Medical Writer
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The largest genetic study of mental illnesses to date finds five major disorders may not look much alike but they share some gene-based risks. The surprising discovery comes in the quest to unravel what causes psychiatric disorders and how to better diagnose and treat them.
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The disorders – autism, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder or ADHD, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder and schizophrenia – are considered distinct problems. But findings published online Wednesday suggest they’re related in some way.
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“These disorders that we thought of as quite different may not have such sharp boundaries,” said Dr. Jordan Smoller of Massachusetts General Hospital, one of the lead researchers for the international study appearing in The Lancet.
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That has implications for learning how to diagnose mental illnesses with the same precision that physical illnesses are diagnosed, said Dr. Bruce Cuthbert of the National Institute on Mental Health, which funded the research.
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SNIP
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Wally W. & Frank,
Let me add to my comments, #s 24 & 25 when I post this comment, that I happen to believe that Pres. Obama has mishandled the discussions that would have avoided the “sequester” situation in which we find ourselves. Immediately after getting through the debt ceiling issue at the end of 2012, in my view, the President should have taken congressional leadership with him to Camp David or the Homestead and stayed there until they were able to negotiate the road forward from the debt ceiling. My original posts on this thread, #s 2 & 6, provide potential cuts in the defense department and a pathway to getting a better handle on balancing cuts with revenues that are agreed to by many experts who know much more about it that me. There are also common sense approaches to dealing with the problems in Social Security and Medicare. It’s not rocket science.
I suggested going to Camp David or the Homestead half seriously. But the reality is that Obama and Congressional leadership need to get out of Washington and away from CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, etc. in order to get away from all the special interests to which they are otherwise beholden. Only in that kind of setting, in today’s world, can each of them be free from all the special interests. The other commitment is that no one talks about what was said during the negotiations. The only report is the agreement that is worked out when they finish and come back to Washington. My belief is that had this approach been used the agreement could have been completed and announced before the President was inaugarated on Jan. 20. It’s a classic case of everyone of our political leaders missing their collective moments. Very sad.
Tuesday ABC’s “Good Morning America” edited out an inaccurate assertion by First Lady Michelle Obama that the gunman in a Chicago killing used an “automatic weapon.”
Regarding the death of teenager Hadiya Pendelton, Mrs. Obama asserted, “And she was caught in the line of fire because some kids had some automatic weapons they didn’t need.” This quote appeared online, but not in the February 26 interview with Robin Roberts that aired on the network.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/27/abc-claims-michelle-obamas-remarks-about-automatic-weapons/#ixzz2M9YIXVsg
WOW
Those obamas just cannot tell the truth about anything….ANOTHER LIE
Funny how the people complaining of bias are so willing to accept it when it comports to their POV…
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Wally W | February 27, 2013 at 12:58 pm, “The effect of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), enacted in March 2010, on the long-term fiscal outlook depends largely on whether elements in PPACA designed to control cost growth are sustained.”
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-13-281
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No wonder you like Ken Cuccinelli for Governor, “My Propaganda, Gainsay who dare!”
Ron May@ 8:30
I agree with you that your suggestion would be the ideal way to handle that problem in a perfect world. However, I do not believe that Boehner, Cantor, and McConnell would have ever agreed to such a getaway because they are
terrified by the tea party wing of their own party. They would have been afraid tthat to be identified as meeting with and trying to work out a compromise
would cost Boehner his speakership and guaranteed that Cantor and McConnell would be primaried. Obama has some extremists to deal with as well but he could deliver the Democrats. The Republicans are so dysfunctional, especially in the House, that I do not believe Boehner and Cantor can deliver the Republicans. The only way a compromise will be reached is if Boehner gives up the Hastert rule and allows legislation which would be supported by most Democrats and enough Republicans to squeeze
it through. And that will not happen.
Wayne,
I agree that it would have been difficult for Boehner & McConnell to respond positively to such an invitation by Obama. However, had they refused to cooperate in early January I truly believe that the President could have seized the bully pulpit and put unmerciful pressure on the Republicans. It would have been very clear who wasn’t cooperating at solving the nation’s problems. Because of that we wouldn’t be where we are today in my view. But then, they didn’t ask for my advice.
More tales of law abiding gun owners. This is a family that as much safer with a gun.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/sebastian-swartz-dead-fathers-gun_n_2776042.html?utm_hp_ref=crime&icid=maing-grid7%7Cipad%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D276443
From what I read in here, Glocks are super popular. Sounds like they get the job done.
http://tinyurl.com/d8kwvjw
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Police: Wheelchair bound man fatally shoots son in self-defense
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LAKELAND, Fla. —
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Lakeland police said a wheelchair bound man shot and killed his son in self-defense Friday evening.
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SNIP
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/22/miami-father-guns-down-family-killing-11-year-old-son-before-committing-suicide/
“A Miami father and veteran pilot gunned down his entire family Wednesday night, killing his 11-year-old son before taking his own life, the Miami Herald reported. “
“Ron, I guess we can call the exchange of links “the sequester’s dueling bangos’, or links, I guess.”
–Frank
I just figured out the business Frank owns: a bluegrass music instruments store. He’s got a great selection of bangos!
http://tinyurl.com/ceq6m56
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71 year old Man Stops Armed Robbery
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Two would be robbers armed with a pistol thought they could easily rob the Palms Internet Cafe in Marion County Florida. They weren’t counting on 71 year old Samuel Williams being there. Williams quickly jumped to action and began shooting at the two would be robbers
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SNIP
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Dan, Good one. We also carry bongos of all shapes and sizes, for the rhythm.
Ron May, you have a reasonable manner, perhaps you should be the host of this blog. So all the problems we face now are because of Bush’s ineptitude?Wouldn’t you think a great leader like Obama should have been motivated to reform entitlement spending on day 1? Well he didn’t! His signature piece of legislation added another huge government program on tax payers backs. The blame Bush argument is insane after 4+ years. Obama had a clean slate, he took the path to the left.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/09/joseph_loughrey_shoots_kills_son_outside_gun_store.html
“A seven-year-old boy was shot to death when his father’s handgun went off in the parking lot of a western Pennsylvania gun store. The boy, Craig Loughrey, was settling into his safety seat in the back of his father’s car when the gun accidentally went off and pierced his chest, reports the Associated Press. The boy died at the scene.”
Dave H, you will only lose this exchange.
Re: gdad at 10:43 pm
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LOL
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I never expect to match one-for-one. Never claimed that the reported incidents in the media were equal — or claimed that the total actual incidents of criminal and various misuses were offset by equal to defensive uses. I don’t know any rational person that would think or claim that. OTOH, See: http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles/165476.pdf — which is the Department of Justice’s own National Institute of Justice (NIJ) study titled “Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms,” and which estimated that 1.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes every year. [Disclaimer: I have posted earlier that there is no consensus as to definitions much less actual numbers.]
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However, I just got tired of seeing so many gratuitous examples of the bad uses being posted without any acknowledgement of the defensive uses.
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So, I thought it would be nice to show there were valid defensive cases, also.
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So, while we are at it check out: http://tinyurl.com/bwwdaqv
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Deadly Home Invasion in Prince Edward County
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A manhunt is underway for a suspect in a deadly home invasion in Prince Edward County.
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Police say three men forced their way into a home on Route 460 early Sunday morning. Investigators say the homeowner shot and killed two of the suspects.
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The third escaped and is on the run.
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Virginia State Police are involved in the search for that suspect.
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The homeowner and a 2-year-old child were not harmed.
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Wally W | February 27, 2013 at 10:29 pm
Wally W.,
Thank you for suggesting that I try to make reasonable posts. I try to.
However, I don’t believe that all our current problems lay at the feet of GWB. Many do, but not all. We’ve been headed to where we are since the 1980s via Supply Side Economics in my view. We started in the late 1990s to change that and head in the right direction. That ended after 2001.
Additionally, I don’t believe Pres. Obama should have attacked entitlements on day 1 of his first term. He should have, again in my view, focused on improving the economy and growing jobs. Instead he focused on health care reform. Important as it was it wasn’t our # 1 problem at the time. Even focusing of healthcare wasn’t handled properly. Again, in my view, he should have gathered the leadership of both parties somewhere out of Washington to grind out an agreement on health care reform. Instead he left it to Reid & Pelosi to work it through Congress. Doing so took longer and allowed the special interests to get involved and lobby members of congress. Several billion dollars of congressional campaign contributions later we got the Affordable Care Act. Imperfect as it is, the ACA if implemented fully, according to the GAO will not add a great financial burden on our budget or the general population. You and I just disagree on that.
Finally, you say Pres. Obama went to the left after his election. I would suggest that he campaigned much further to the left than he has governed. Additionally, he didn’t have a clean slate. He had a whole stack of problems left on his plate.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/1732999-12/blacksburg-lawyer-faces-dui-gun-and-drug-charges.html
So isn’t this attorney the gunners’ big hero around here?
“A Blacksburg lawyer was charged late Tuesday with driving under the influence — and a subsequent investigation resulted in additional charges of distributing a controlled substance and providing a firearm to a convicted felon.”
Another “responsible gun owner”.
Dave H, other gun lovers have regularly posted examples like the ones you posted. I’m not sure why none of them ever post the examples of gun owners accidentally or purposely killing each other. Seems like they would make good precautionary tales.
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As for the home invasion, which was posted a few times when it happened, I’d still like to know hat was in that double wide that they were after. This was not your random home invasion. Those guys were after drugs or guns or something.
That home invasion reads like a drug deal gone wrong.
hey gdad, sooo, the folks who live in the double-wide must have caused those three thugs to force their way into the home…because it’s a double-wide? That’s like sayin’ the girl wearing a short fashionable skirt deserved to get raped when she dared walk near some guys. What would you say if she had a gun and killed a couple of those guys during thier attempt? I know what you’d say….you’d wonder why she was wearing a short skit. Your thinking is pathetic.
Now Kristen, law abiding drug dealers have a right to defend their…oh wait.
Wally W, no president starts with “a clean slate” and the economic collapse gave Obama no choice on spending for a great many things, safety nets being one of them. The reality of the economic collapse cannot be discounted or dismissed, no matter how hard the right wing tries. Neither can the slow recovery, but if you are going to blame Obama, we are going to blame Bush. Period.
If those folks had drugs or drug money around — and I don’t know for certain that they did — then they certainly invited the home invasion. Happens a fair amount for that very reason.
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Nothing wrong with my thinking, Frank. Most “home invasions” are for a reason — revenge for something, anger, heat of the moment, or the invaders are after drugs or drug money. Having seen this home on the news, it’s a fairly safe bet these folks weren’t swimming in legitimate cash.
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Anyway, pretty funny to have “Our ambassador was raped” Frank calling my thinking pathetic.
Sandi, are you in the 5th grade? Since day one, Obama has and is still working from his European socialist wish list, instead of addressing pressing ssues….the economy and the debt. Now he’s fast tracking gun control, putting criminals to the front of the line to immigrate, and trying to make CA change a law that they voted on so gays can marry. This is exactly what you get when you elect a president that has never had a REAL private sector job. He just doesn’t get it!!
I actually didn’t know it was a double wide.
It’s been 4 years, Sandi. The Blame Bush schtick is starting to grow some green mold in the refrigerator of truth.
“Since day one, Obama has and is still working from his European socialist wish list, instead of addressing pressing ssues….the economy and the debt. Now he’s fast tracking gun control, putting criminals to the front of the line to immigrate, and trying to make CA change a law that they voted on so gays can marry. This is exactly what you get when you elect a president that has never had a REAL private sector job. He just doesn’t get it!!”
–Wally W
Wally, your comment above is nothing more than conservative mythology.
Obama has cut the growth of federal government spending more than any president since Eisenhower. His first priority was addressing pressing issues — the state of the economy; a healthcare system that is heading toward crisis; banking re-regulation in the wake of the 2008 financial collapse; AND immigration. ALL of those are pressing issues. You can argue they’re not until the cows come home but that won’t make any difference. Conservative mythology notwithstanding, Obama had a lot of different jobs after his graduation from Columbia, including at least 3 “REAL private sector jobs.” To claim otherwise simply ignores the facts.
#53 wow man I did not know some of you from the right was still pushing that bs about how the President is somehow a socialist.
Speaking as someone who really digs that way of living I would say your as close as let’s say the planet Mars on that one.
Here is hoping in the next Presidential election the GOP listens to folks like you. That way the neo cons will really be RIP.
Wally W, it should bother you that even a 5th grader can see through your partisan smack.
Re: gdad at 8:33 am
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Funny, I don’t remember folk on the more restriction on 2A / Prohibition side of the struggle posting any self-defense stories, links to armed citizens have a fighting chance against criminals, etc.
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I’m not sure why none of them ever post the examples of gun owners saving lives of innocent folk stopping a crime. Seems like they would make good precautionary tales of why folk should be armed.
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BTW, why do you seem to think that folk living in a double wide don’t have rights to self defense? Never took you for an elitist. FWIIW, I support all folks rights — not just the rich and well connected, or wherever the line is being drawn by the likes of an authorization like Michael Bloomberg, with his tax paid squad of bodyguards.
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YMMV. However, I suspect it might just be a case WYSDWYS (the What You See Depends on Where You Stand version and maybe just a touch of the Where You Stand Depends of Where You Sit version, also.)
Kristen, this site has a pic of the home, which would appear to be sort of an enclosed double wide with maybe a carport added to the end. I’m glad that the folks inside ended up being safe and of course I have no evidence of any kind that anything hinky was going on in there, but it’s just plain fact that a place like this is not usually targeted without some reason.
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I’ve been looking for a followup on this incident but can’t find one anywhere.
Dave H, I was merely speculating on why this might have happened, and in cases like this one SEEMS to be, it’s frequently something that the target brought on himself as the result of a certain lifestyle or the folks the person hangs out. That’s just plain fact. Home invaders generally don’t do double wides for the large stashes of jewels or (legal) cash inside.
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I’m looking but am having trouble finding where I said people who live in double sides don’t have a right to defend themselves. Can you point it out for me?
gdad, now we know you think it’s the woman’s fault.
kristen,
i was relying on gdad’s post for the double-wide reference. i don’t remember seening that reference myself anywhere else.
Re: gdad at 2:42 pm
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See: gdad at 8:33 am
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“As for the home invasion, which was posted a few times when it happened, I’d still like to know hat was in that double wide that they were after. This was not your random home invasion. Those guys were after drugs or guns or something.”
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Regardless of what the “something” was don’t you think double wide owners should have as much right to life and self protection as you & I?
Notice that with Frank having yet again introduced a rape scenario into a non-rape thread(#49), he’s chomping at the bit for someone to take it up with him. Thanks for ignoring his fetish.
hey warren and gdad, the obama administration has disclosed virtually NOTHING about what happened in Benghazi. Heck, we don’t even have the evidence which led them to lie and blame that horrible deadly fiasco on some “American movie-maker”…who is soon therefter got thrown in jail.
hi kristen at #54 and gdad at #60
ol’ gdad at #60 has sure let his true colors shine on through in this little exchange about a house break-in where a couple of people got shot and killed by the person in the house. “based on an picture”, gdad assumes that the house is a “double-wide”. all reports of the house referred to it as a “home”, or a “house”. I guess to ol’ gdad, a “home” is not a “home” if’n it’s a “double-wide”….I guess ’cause “those” people aren’t entitled to “homes” like he must have. And, since the person had a “gun” to protect themselves with, and actually (big gasp coming)…GASP! used it to protect themselves, well, it COULDN’T have been a malicious act perpetrated by the “home”-invaders, but rather MUST have been caused by “whatever” the person in the “double-wide” was “hiding”.
then, gdad’s true ingnorance shines through with THIS gem: “but it’s just plain fact that a place like this is usually not targeted without some reason”.
I’m serious. I can’t make this stuff up!
gdad, I earlier thought your thinking was pathetic. I was wrong. Now I believe your thinking is pathetically warped by bias and prejudice, to where you can’t see straight, and think at all, when you think of “double-wides”, and the people who chose to live in them. I’m hitting pretty close to “home”, aren’t I? I hope so.
gee, gdad,
please tell us…again…that you think it’s the fault of whatever the person was hiding in the double-wide that caused those three folks to invade that double-wide in the first place. Then, tell us it’s the fault of the short skirt that the young woman was wearing that got her assaulted and raped by those same three thugs (figuratively, gdad). Oh, and gdad, you know what? You’re a self-righteous lib, to boot. Go figure. You lib folks are supposed to be above all this hate and prejudice, aren’t ya? Oh, yeah. Except when you aren’t.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50973672#.US-VMzec3fE
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{the gist}
A man in Florida was shot by his dog… by what he reported to police as an “unloaded .380 pistol”… that turned out to be a surprisingly loaded 9mm pistol. The dog has not yet been arrested because the investigation is still pending.
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Even as a gunner, I can safely say that this man is an example of those certain boneheaded individuals that need their gun rights suspended. Responsible gun ownership certainly includes knowing what the status of your weapon is at all times. At the very least, you should know the caliber of the weapon.
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This is a perfect example of a non-felonious case where a guy shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a firearm until such a time as he can prove competence with weapon safety. It’s idiots like this who make the gun debate so absurd and futile. We cannot stand on the pro-gun side of the argument and, in good moral conscience, say that reckless, negligent behavior like this should be sheltered under the 2nd Amendment. Take his guns away from him.
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This revocation doesn’t have to be permanent, of course. There are certified safety courses out there and he should have to go through one and at least meet some base criteria to get his rights back. That most certainly is a public safety issue. The more of these dummies we get out of the way now, the sooner we can resume a reasonable debate about firearms.
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As owners and advocates for the responsible ownership of deadly weapons, we must hold ourselves to the highest of standards and show others that we will not tolerate people like Mr. Lanier. Perhaps if we show that we’re willing to disavow and even punish dunderheads like these, we can find other compromises that will satisfy everyone involved, too.
Gosh, Frank, got you all riled up?
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Look, Frank, if you can speculate about rape all the time — including stupid lies about what I believe — I can certainly speculate about why these guys might have invaded this house. Heck, Frank, a couple of conservative posters over at Free Republic even wondered about exactly the same thing I wondered about. I guess they’re also self-righteous libs, eh? Of course over on FR they were also speculating about the race of the perps and wondering why the media didn’t list that. Some folks over there are really hung up about race.
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Frank, buddy, there’s nothing biased, prejudiced or hateful about noting that most houses of this size and type are NOT packed with jewels or cash or other valuables that might normally lead three people to want to invade it. That’s just a fact. As a result, that means there’s likely another reason this happened — not a legitimate reason because there is NO legitimate reason for home invasion. It”s a solid bet that if you were to talk to the investigating officers they’d say exactly the same thing, and you can damn well believe they asked the shooter those exact kinds of questions. So tell us, Frank, does that also make the officers self-righteous libs? I’ll wait to hear your answer on that one.
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Notice that as hard as you try to intimate otherwise, I never cast the invaders as good guys. They are quite bad and two of them are quite dead as a result. That’s the chance they took while violating the law and they lost. They kicked in the door and were armed; they deserved whatever they got. I’m extremely glad that neither the shooter nor the child were harmed and I hope this was just some ignorant robbers breaking into the wrong place.
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well, gdad, it’s finally out.
your pathetic opinions as expressed above are fostered by a biased, judgemental, nose-in-the-air attitude you have against double-wides and the people who chose to live in them.
show me some facts, gdad, to back up your biased opinions in post # 70
OleHayFrank, who starts every post with “I believe”… Asking.. For proof. Priceless.
I swear to God, frank’s favorite word after “Benghazi” must be “Why?” There are three year olds that ask fewer questions than frank does. Rather than trifle us with the same endless series of questions, why can’t he just use the Google like a normal person?
I guess frank figures that if he asks the same question six times a day in the same thread he’ll convince somebody to change their mind.
Hope springs eternal.
Steve C,
I guess this blog where Franks gets all his info!
Why the assailants really broke into the double wide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acH8qeLACCc
you better watch it, kristen. Dan doesn’t want us to twist each other’s blog names. since he’s approved your twist of my name, i guess others will follow your lead, and dan will permit it until i follow suit…then dan will “have enough”, and start trashing. i love watching the hypocrisy!
by the way, i haven’t started any post on this thread with “i believe”, have i? not that facts matter to you.
Hey Steve c,
Yeah, Benghazi is still hanging out there, isn’t it?
By the way, how many times have i used my purportedly “second” favorite word in this thread, steve c? answer, none. zero. zilch. nada. you are lying, again, steve c. but then, you’re a lib, so i guess it’s ok.
i liked it better when you got all hot and bothered about bill clinton. between you and me, i betcha dan did as well. Hey! I know! …maybe we can do something about that!
Frank | February 28, 2013 at 8:13 pm
gee, gdad,
please tell us…again…that you think it’s the fault of whatever the person was hiding in the double-wide that caused those three folks to invade that double-wide in the first place. Then, tell us it’s the fault of the short skirt that the young woman was wearing that got her assaulted and raped by those same three thugs (figuratively, gdad). Oh, and gdad, you know what? You’re a self-righteous lib, to boot. Go figure. You lib folks are supposed to be above all this hate and prejudice, aren’t ya? Oh, yeah. Except when you aren’t.
Frank. You’re falling down on the job. You still haven’t figured out a way to tie this incident to Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, and a stained blue dress. I look forward to reading that when you do, because we’re running a little short on comedy today.
Facts to back up what in #70, Frank? You need to be specific. Of course, as much if it is my opinion or how I feel about something, you have to be well aware there’s no “proof.”
ok, Wayne, here you go,
Paula Flowers was protrayed by the clinton defenders, and in the media, as “trailer trash”. Snobby lib-folks like gdad have probably harbored their deep-seated aversion to double-wides ever since paula appeared on bill clinton’s coat-tails. After clinton played his way into the white house, Monica picked up right where Paula left off. And, I bet Paula had one of “those” blue dresses as well, but she took hers to the dry-cleaners.
I think steve c can pick it up from there.
How’d I do?
Paula Jones, Frank and it was none other than conservative Ann Coulter who called her trailer-park trash because Jones posed in Penthouse magazine.
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“I totally believed she was the good Christian girl who had suffered sexual harassment. That is what she made herself out to be…. [N]ow it turns out she’s a fraud, at least to the extent of pretending to be an honorable and moral person.”
Frank, you need to be careful, none other than your idol has used the insult of living in a mobile home against bloggers here, numerous times in fact.
–
“… Now they can’t even qualify for a double-wide, and it’s everybody else’s fault.
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Can we also assume JMWhite:
1. Lives in a mobile home?
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…seems extremely unhappy. I wonder if he’s ever considered setting himself and his mobile home on fire.
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I don’t frequent mobile home parks, bowling alleys, Hardees, or multi-unit housing.”
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Now Frank, THOSE were insults about people living in mobile homes and double-wides, so unless you are willing to condemn your idol, lay off the non-insults here.
Can we also assume JMWhite:
1. Lives in a mobile home?
Frank | March 2, 2013 at 10:55 am
ok, Wayne, here you go,
Paula Flowers was protrayed by the clinton defenders, and in the media, as “trailer trash”. Snobby lib-folks like gdad have probably harbored their deep-seated aversion to double-wides ever since paula appeared on bill clinton’s coat-tails. After clinton played his way into the white house, Monica picked up right where Paula left off. And, I bet Paula had one of “those” blue dresses as well, but she took hers to the dry-cleaners.
I think steve c can pick it up from there.
How’d I do?
I knew you could do it Frank. And it fits right in with all the other fantasies
that you post each and every day. The ones about the Clintons, sex in the white house, and rape scenarios of various types are especially funny.
You should be doing one liners in some LA comedy club. I understand
they are always looking for good Gomer impersonators.
“you better watch it, kristen”
I feel so threatened.
gdad,
ok, have it your way. your direct OPINION is hateful, biased, and prejudiced to double-wides and the preople who chose to live in them, like Paula Flowers….and is even more so when compared to the “racist” term libs on dan’s blog and elsewhere apply to conservatives who don’t support an obama policy you libs happen to like. sooo, gdad, are you saying it’s reasonable for conservatives to now begin to more outwardly oppose obama’s policies and NOT be labled racist by folks like you?
Hey Wayne,
The clinton sexcapades in, and before his arrival in, the white house are not “fantacy”. Unless YOU think they are. Hey, I know! Wayne, why don’t you seriously and factually address that point! Did they happen, or not?
That’s a “yes” or “no” response, Wayne.
Who is “Paula Flowers?”
#85 “ok, have it your way. your direct OPINION is hateful, biased, and prejudiced to double-wides and the preople who chose to live in them, ”
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Frank, you just need to stop making stuff up.
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“sooo, gdad, are you saying it’s reasonable for conservatives to now begin to more outwardly oppose obama’s policies and NOT be labled racist by folks like you?”
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I’ll be waiting around for you to show me examples of where I’ve called anybody racist SOLELY because they oppose Obama’s policies. No generalities, provide specific examples. If you can’t do that, quit lying about me, Frank.
Sandi,
I’m not a stranger to a double-wide. And, the point I’m making, and continue to make, with gdad, is that you libs prance around calling folks who oppose obama’s policies as being “racists”…and think that’s fine.
gdad, on the other-hand, thinks that whatever the guy MIGHT HAVE had in the double-wide (see post #47 where gdad opines…”those guys were after drugs or guns or something.”) somehow lessons the effect of the home invasion in the first place. Kinda like “the double-wide” was aking to be invaded…’cause the idiot who lived there had “guns, drugs, or SOMETHING!”
Do ya see the point, Sandi? It’s the same as me suggesting that a girl wearing a short skirt is kinda “asking” to get raped….just because she was wearing a short skirt, and A women who does THAT is asking for it!
That’s a pretty sad way to look at double-wides, and the people who chose to live in them, in my opinion. I think it’s a sad way to look at people in general. And, the further gdad goes in rationalizing his beliefs, the further into the hole he digs. And, you libs are with him as he digs. And, the one who’s calling him out on it is a conservative.
Go figure!!
I notice, Frank, that you were totally unable to come up with any examples from my earlier post of specific questions that you wanted me to answer. Then, in effect, YOU started called people trailer trash and insulting people who live in double wides. My offense? I merely said that MOST people who live in double wides aren’t brimming over with spare cash and generally aren’t home invasion targets unless there’s something else going on. I’ve also acknowledged that in this case I could be wrong and these folks could have been completely innocent targets of some brainless dolts who didn’t realize that somebody was home and didn’t know that there was likely little there to steal. There’s no insult there.
I read a memoir by Bob Schieffer years ago and remember him writing about James Carville’s remark about waving a hundred bill around in a traler park. He said he’d known people who lived in trailer parks, that were the salt of the earth, and he’d know people who lived in million dollar homes, that were pure trash. How about we give up the silly fixations on where people live.
Dan Casey | March 2, 2013 at 1:47 pm
Who is “Paula Flowers
Dan. I think she was Jennifer Lewinsky’s sister. Or was that Monica Jones?
This all seems to be pretty confusing for Frank.
Frank | March 2, 2013 at 1:40 pm
Hey Wayne,
The clinton sexcapades in, and before his arrival in, the white house are not “fantacy”. Unless YOU think they are. Hey, I know! Wayne, why don’t you seriously and factually address that point! Did they happen, or not?
That’s a “yes” or “no” response, Wayne
The answer, Frank, is that nobody but you and a few hypocritical judgmental
moralists actually gives a damn. What is and was important was performing the duties of the office of President. His sex life and what he did in his bedroom ws and should have remained private. His chief tormenters including Newt Gingrich were no better. They couldn’t attack his policies with any degree of honesty, they couldn’t prove anthing with the trumped up Whitewater charges, so all they had left was to attack his sex life. And your obsession with it and attempts to trace everything that’s happened in the last 17 years back to it is a sick fascination.
Debbie | March 2, 2013 at 2:04 pm
I read a memoir by Bob Schieffer years ago and remember him writing about James Carville’s remark about waving a hundred bill around in a traler park. He said he’d known people who lived in trailer parks, that were the salt of the earth, and he’d know people who lived in million dollar homes, that were pure trash. How about we give up the silly fixations on where people live.
And vice versa Debbie. And amen to your last sentence. Just another one of Frank’s silly ass obsessions.
Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, it’s just so hard to keep track, Dan.
hey J.M, thanks for chiming in.
This is getting interesting. I got Jones and Gennifer Flowers mixed up….thanks for mentioning. So, we’ve got Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, and, wasn’t there also some woman by the approximate last name of “Wiley”, maybe from Richmond, who alleged being accosted by wild bill in the white house? Who else did I miss?
Maybe Steve c knows! What we DO know is that we don’t know of all of wild-bill’s escapades, do we?
By the way, there are lots of media refences by clinton surragates, along with the media itself, referring to bill clinton’s women as “trailer trash”…not just Ann Coulter. And, I think those that refer to to women like that are of the same ilk as gdad, and as libs who refer to conservatives as “racist” when they oppose obama’s policies. What we have on display here today is a biased, prejudiced, LACK-of-thinking on gdad’s part, which is so ingrained in him that he simply can’t see it…and you libs are giving him a pass.
Hey J.M.,
Here’s a photo list for you to peruse…Nooo, not THAT kind of photo…check out the last photo… I bet Steve c will REALLY enjoy the photos!
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOMMASBOY/mommy.html
Debbie,
I think for most of us, Bob Schieffer has it right. Also, regarding how to keep track, I posted a link for other clintonian women on a post to J.M. White. I somehow doubt that the list is all-inclusive….
Debbie, the reason for why the double-wide issue came up in the first place is due to gdad’s stated belief that a double-wide home that was home-invaded a couple weeks ago by 3 invaders and 2 of the invaders were killed by the homeowner who shot them…was propably “due to double-wides having guns and drugs or something” ….as if that somehow lessens the issue of the home-invasion in the first place. And ever since, gdad has been trying to “explain” himself…and just keeps digging. And, nobody but a conservative has called him on it.
Heck, rather than dig in his heels, all gdad need do is say, “sheesh, it was a bad choice of words”. But, in typical lib fashion, he’ll never admit his words were poorly chosen, and no lib will call him out on it, and libs in general will continue to refer to conservatives who oppose obama as being racists.
And, I believe that to be hypocrisy of the highest order.
“I think for most of us, Bob Schieffer has it right. Also, regarding how to keep track, I posted a link for other clintonian women on a post to J.M. White. I somehow doubt that the list is all-inclusive….”
-Frank
Thank God I never ran for president, the act of which causes many political operatives and others to track down every person in your life and dig up dirt that can be used to injure you politically. It’s rather astounding that in the 50-some years of his life before he became president, they could find only 3 or 4 women who said nasty things about Bill Clinton.
dan,
for goodness’ sake, dan, no one HAD to go “digging stuff” up on clinton! it follows him like a friggin parade! He smacked us in the face with it when he boldly bellowed to the world, “i did NOT have sex…with that…woman, ms. lewinsky”. whatever his other qualities may be, Clinton is an immoral liar….so say the facts.
by the way, that single moment, when he forcefully and publicly proclaimed his innocence of infidelity, took place in his second term, dan. his prior acts of infidelity while governor would never have risen to national scope in the fashion they did had he not done two simple, moral, things:
1. not had sexual liasons with an impressionable young girl not much older than his daughter, and
2. not bald-faced lying about it to the American people.
I guess since we are dragging Clinton through the dirt it’s cool to list a few of GW Bushes transgressions?
1. His top aide exposed an undercover CIA agent to silence critics
2. Lies deceptions and coverups to push the war in Iraq
3. Convicted of drunk driving, lied repeatedly to cover up his arrest
4. Avoided Vietnam and skipped out on his National Guard Service
5. Made millions on insider trade deals for little or no work
6. His young and irresponsible behavior-Sex, Drugs and rock and roll
7. Spoiled little rich kid: Living off his Family name and reputation
Favorite GW quote: “The great thing about America is everybody should vote.”-Austin, Texas, Dec. 8, 2000
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
hey wayne at #92,
i think you might be “on” to something about the clintonian women being “familial” of sorts….in bill’s mind, of course! Check out the link i put in post #96…although, the inference in the link wasn’t on …..sisters.
Frank, the things you obsess over are just plain weird. I don’t where or how you conjured up the notion that I have a dog in fight that you see as Clinton’s moral failings as a husband but quite ‘frankly’ I couldn’t care less. It’s between he and his wife and it appears they came to terms with this issue over ten years ago. And guess what? The rest of the country did as well. No one cares but you, frank; let it go. The man’s not perfect. Neither am I. Last time I tried to walk across water my toes got a little wet. We’re humans, we’re imperfect. Deal with it.
What exactly do you hope to accomplish by continuing to bring this up again and again? No one else cares but you, frank. Stop wasting valuable bandwidth on things that happened years ago.
You need to get out more or find other hobbies; trying to make a relevant or salient point online is obviously not your strong suit.
For the last time, I have no inside knowledge into Bill’s infidelities, nor do I wish to provide him oral gratification. This is your obsession, not mine, and I could care less about it. Kindly leave my name out of your future discussion regarding this topic. I recommend you just move on but since based on your involvement in this blog up to this point I think it’s a safe bet you’ll ask about this topic at least another 16,000 times; either way, just leave my name out of it; this is your gig, not mine. Got it yet? I don’t care. Nobody else cares; He got a hummer and the world didn’t end. It’s pretty much as simple as that. What he did was no more a crime than droning on infinitely about impertinent nonsense like you do. I wish to God Dan could install a block future on the blog so I could banish you to cyberspace and finally get you to quit polluting the blog over and over again with topics no one cares about and we could restore some sanity to this place. You really muck things up here, frank; as a contributor you really make the blog a worse place because of your issues. Please grow up or find another blog to infect so we can have normal conversations without constantly having to threaten to send you to your room without dessert.
In that link you posted, Frank, Clinton is compared to Hitler. That is as far as I read, I didn’t bother going any further. Yes, Clinton has the morals of an alley cat, and if I were Hillary, I would have hit him in the head with a frying pan a long time ago. That has nothing to do with his time in office. He turned a deficit into a surplus. You can’t argue with that. Actually, I’m sure you or someone else can, and probably will.
98. Dan, indeed, ol Bill must have the right charisma with women. They simply love him. What can you say bad about a man with that kind of attraction.
Debbie,
I hadn’t noticed that reference to Hitler. For the record, I do not compare clinton to hitler in any way, shape, or fashion.
and Debbie, you are speaking of “half truths”. Yes, it was clinton ….and the ….republican congress (which showed its willingness to shut down the government to cut spending and balance the budget), which were a significant reason that the deficit turned into a surplus.
steve c,
Please don’t take away my pumpkin pie! or, my bread pudding! or, my custard pudding! You can take away all the rest.
You’ve made your point. And, I suspect I’ve made mine.
dan,
for goodness’ sake, dan, no one HAD to go “digging stuff” up on clinton! it follows him like a friggin parade! He smacked us in the face with it when he boldly bellowed to the world, “i did NOT have sex…with that…woman, ms. lewinsky”.
–Frank
Frank,
Find a reality pill and take a half-dozen of them, please.
The Lewinsky affair was broken by a journalist for Newsweek. Michael Isikoff had the story, but several hours before publication some higher-up executive at the magazine got cold feet and killed it, for whatever reason. (This is rare but not unheard of). So somebody fed details of the story being killed to Matt Drudge (who in that day linked mostly to Hollywood gossip) and boom!, suddenly it was out there. Stuff like that happens just about every time some too-cautious editor kills a story. It has been happening for years, and long before the internet. Killed stories outrage the reporter who worked hard on it — and the next thing you know, it finds its way into print anyway and the publication that killed the original piece winds up looking weak and cowardly.
Anyway, all of that preceded Clinton’s bald-faced lie.
It was dug up, like many political sex scandals, by a member of the so-called “liberal, mainstream media.” That is, the people who you believe are in the business of protecting Obama and other Democratic politicians. RWers’ myopia on this subject is stunning.
The incentives of this generally low-paying industry are such that journalists actually care far more about GETTING good dirt than WHO they get it on. This is the truth, Frank., Remember the Gary Hart sex scandal? That was broken by the so-called “liberal media,” too. Despite bizarre theories of pontificating RWers, members of the liberal media don’t get brownie points, or their names out there, or better and high-paying jobs down the road, by burying stories. Everybody in the business knows this.
But even more than the press, there are teams of Republican and Democratic opposition researchers who go through candidates’ lives with a fine-toothed comb. They are FAR more thorough than most journalists, who have far less time to burn (under the watchful eyes of their story-hungry editors) on long-term fishing expeditions.
cold n p, you list is pathetic. just to address number 2, was clinton wrong when he said he did not have sex with that women, …or did he lie? not finding wmds in Iraq doesn’t mean Bush lied. And, clinton and you want us to debate what the meaning of the word “is” is. Sheesh.
If every politician was kicked out of office for lying, Frank, there would be no one in office.
I’m still trying to figure out what relevance Clinton’s sexual life has to… well, anything. Are we going to retroactively try him for some newly-enacted moral crimes? Are we discounting his fiscal and social successes because of his moral failings? If so, why?
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We all know that he’s not the first to bang around in the White House and can be darned sure that he’s not the first one to lie about banging around in the White House. So what, really?
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Clinton, like every other president, had some successes and had some failures. All in all, the general well-being of the country was in good shape.
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Speaking of former presidents: Who was that dude after Clinton who took the nation on a Slim Pickens rocket-ride to oblivion? You know, our Slim who in reality pulled the ‘chute and landed softly and quietly on a ranch in Texas while leaving the rest of us for crater fodder? Let’s talk about about that guy, too. I have some really good dirt on Herbert Hoover, as well, but I think I’ll save it for our next sewing circle.
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The point is that there’s no point in jabbering on about who had sexual relations with a president unless he happened to be the same president who somehow outlawed sexual relations..
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There’s also no point in squawking about what type of person lives in a double-wide. We live in a time where unoccupied trailers are being gutted for copper in the middle of the night. Theft is theft, and thieves will steal anything of value, regardless of location. In that respect, Frank is right, but his using it as a bludgeon to denigrate others severely dulls the point and is nearly as bad as the original assumption.
Hey Dan,
I think your above post #108 is spot on…for the most part. In fact, you could add johnny-boy edwards’ “peccadillos” to the list….his poor family. Yep, i remember seeing that the NYTs’ also had THAT one…and “passed”, before it was finally broken by that bastian of truth, justice, and the American way… The National Enquirer. Personally, I think the gray lady passed on it because she was in the tank for the first black presidential candidate that had national viability…and the longer that edwards stayed in the race, the better for their candidate, obama.
But, I digress.
None of what you said MADE bill clinton succumb to the charms of a young woman, barely older than his daughter, in or near the oval office, and then lie to the American people (btw, I threw in that “succumbing” part as a throw-away to the lib-crowd that still might think that way….). Clinton’s willingness to work with the congress was what got the American people to forgive him, I think. Results matter. And he, with the republicans, got results.
I may have agreed with you more fully, Dan, back before dan rather did what he did to Bush, and with the NYTs desperatly trying to steer clear of the edwards fiasco. I now believe that “pre-conceived motive” has permeated main stream media, including the networks…as evidenced in particular with rather’s mistake (if I viewed it as you folks do with Bush, I would have said …”rather’s LIE”), and with the NYTs passing on the edwards fiasco in order to prop up obama over hillary.
And, having to please bosses sure complicates things. That, Dan, I understand.
hey J.M, bill clinton entered the pecture as a result of Wayne’s post at #78. I responded to Wayne’s post, and, we are where we are.
Thank you, Wayne!
Debbie, you make a good point. it sure takes a “special” kind of person to run for office, particularly the office of president.
Frank, still waiting for your examples of me ever calling a right winger racist SOLELY because they opposed an Obama policy. Once you fail to find said example, you can just drop that lie. Thanks.
Nothing at all wrong with my original conjecture, J.M. Even a bunch of right wingers on other blogs or discussion lists wondered about the exact same thing. And it’s pretty much a sure bet the cops checked that angle.
Frank – about former President Bill Clinton:
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“President Clinton started the Clinton Global Initiative in September 2005 to convene world leaders, forward-looking CEOs, and philanthropists to commit to take action on pressing global challenges. Over the course of seven annual meetings, members have made nearly 2,300 commitments totaling $73.1 billion that will improve more than 400 million lives.”
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/main/about/clinton-foundation-history.html
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Former Democratic presidents spend their years [after serving in the Oval Office] going around the world doing good deeds…what do you have on the republican side?
Someone clearing brush?
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Rather than spend time posting about the 1990′s, why not hop on the train to the 2000′s? President Clinton’s life is not summed up by Ms Lewinsky…
I for one think its time Obama break his promise on not to look back at possible criminal actions by the GW Bush Regime.
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IMHO GWB actions as president which have scarred this nation emotionally, economically and which resulted in the deaths of thousands of good faithful Americans far outweigh the sexual peccadillos Bill committed.
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Frank, do you still what to have this conversation? I suggest you shut up before you open up a can of worms you neocons don’t want to bring down on yourselves.
“. . .I may have agreed with you more fully, Dan, back before dan rather did what he did to Bush, and with the NYTs desperatly trying to steer clear of the edwards fiasco. . . .”
–Frank
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Frank,
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Dan Rather didn’t “do” anything to Bush. At the worst, Dan Rather got fooled. And he paid a very heavy price for it.
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Just an fyi about major network anchors — this also goes for the “reporters” on 60 Minutes, and top echelon columnists — they don’t do their own reporting. They don’t have to. They’re at the top of the game, and people line up to do the reporting for them, cheaply. That’s one way up the ladder. Mike Royko, by far the greatest columnist ever, didn’t do his own reporting toward the end of his career. He had 3 or 4 reporters who went out and gathered facts for him. But he did the writing, which was always marvelous, stylish, and provocative as hell. And Royko, (who was a top-shelf reporter earlier in his career) enforced very high standards upon those who did the reporting for him. Royko also had one full-time person who handled his mail. Maureen Dowd doesn’t do her own reporting, either.
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Columnist Jack Anderson didn’t do his own reporting OR writing, at least in his latter days. He employed people to gather dirt, and someone else to write it up. I interviewed once for one of Anderson’s dirt-gathering reporter positions. I was married then and had one kid, and Anderson was paying $5,000 a year less than I was already making at a 45,000-circulation paper. The lady who interviewed me (her name was Darryl) was the one who did his writing. She explained the whole game to me.
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Somebody sold Rather’s “producer” (i.e. reporting gofer) a bill of goods, and the producer fell for it. That person should not have. Rather fell for his producer’s assurances. That was the mistake he made. It was avoidable, but understandable given the hubris at the level he operated at. I forget what he made a year, but multiply that X 5, just for starters, and that’s the price he paid. It was heavy. What was the price GWB paid?
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Zilch.
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In other words, Rather didn’t “do” ANYTHING. The only person he effed was himself.
Hillary, George HW Bush has worked closely with Clinton, and indeed has helped him rehabilitate Clinton’s image. But you’re correct generally — at least in the years I’ve been on Earth. Ex-Democratic presidents have accomplished more for humanity after leaving office than ex-GOP presidents.
Frank
Maybe you should look at your own post
#77 right before Mine when you introduced Bill Clinton to the conversation . Given your track record it was obvious Where you were going with that one .
holy cow, you libs! all i did was respond to a challenge by wayne at post #78, and sprinkle in some facts, ….and you folks can’t handle the truth!
Hey, Dan. Sooo, ok. dan rather got duped or was somebody’s mouth piece. would that duper or somebody be a left-wing lunatic? and, the price dan rather is “paying” …..is to accept award, after award, after award. He’s MORE popular among libs than he was before he “might have been duped”, as you say.
And, Dan, THANK YOU for confirming my belief that we can’t believe the news that cbs, nbc, and abc “produce and read” on air …AT LEAST ever since dan rather got caught being duped or being a mouthpiece.
What’s your take on the NYTs and john edwards “love” child?
Hey Cold n p, you are so far off track on what you think Bush “did” to the economy I don’t think even Dan could talk any sense into you. Sheesh.
Hey J.M., I don’t usually disagree with much of what you say. one point which I do disagree with is, I pointed out a lib who denigrates double-wides and the folks who choose to live in double-wides…based only on his “opinion”. NO ONE except you has even hinted that what THAT lib does is even bordering on a poor choice of words, ….and yet conservatives get called “racist” by libs merely for disagreeing with an obama policy. I object to the hypocrisy blinfers libs hide behind when one of their own gets called out for bias and prejudice, and at the least a issuing pre-conceived and poorly worded judgement about people simply based on where they happen live.
You know, tomorrow, we might read in the RTs that three men busted into an occupied apartment in one of the city’s housing projects, and the occupant blew two of them away with a gun, …..and if …I… had posted something like, ….well, sheesh, …the guys barging in “must have been after guns or drugs or something”…(i mean, what do you expect, ya know?)…based PURELY on the fact that the crime happened in a city housing project, would that commment have been viewed by you libs as a reasonable judgement made by myself?
…………………It doesn’t matter WHAT the intruders were after!
THAT’S THE POINT! AND, NONE OF YOU ARE WILLING TO SEE IT!
Hillary, …you raise some interesting points. on my end, i hadn’t really thought about contributions made by presidents after they leave office. of one thing i am certain, though, is that ol’ bill clinton is travelling the world, sowing some seeds among those “good deeds”,….and the money he’s raising for the sowing of seeds and “good deeds” does come right off the backs of global leaders. sheesh.
Hey J.M. you got it, based on your last sentence in post #111. my purpose in “bludgeoning” the point is the other person involved keeps begging for it. And, because no lib has dared acknowledge the hypocrisy.
“And, Dan, THANK YOU for confirming my belief that we can’t believe the news that cbs, nbc, and abc “produce and read” on air …AT LEAST ever since dan rather got caught being duped or being a mouthpiece.”
–Frank
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Frank, buddy, you don’t need me to help you not believe whatever it is you don’t want to believe, do you? Seriously? Do you take your thought cues from me? That is a bad policy. No offense, but . . . I don’t take mine from you.
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Nobody working for CBS had any incentive to fabricate anything. Somebody screwed up. Somebody got fooled by a source. Rather got fooled by that somebody. Both of them got fired (or forced out).
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Nobody has any incentive to make big mistakes (or even worse, to lie) in this business. No story is ALWAYS better than a wrong story, because wrong stories ALWAYS come back to bite you in this business. The same goes with plagiarism, and making stuff up.
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The fact that no other major network anchors have fallen under a similar cloud since Rather left CBS is proof that they didn’t make any kind of the magnitude of mistakes that Rather made. That should give you GREATER confidence, not less, in their work. Because, as I’ve already told you, journalists’ mistakes are VERY public and they ALWAYS come back to bite the journalist.
Good morning! Wow, that post disappeared like a leftist in Chile. Either I was right or so far off the mark it’s not funny. Regardless, you’ve been infested with a brand new troll, a word that doesn’t score highly in Scrabble. Carpe diem…
Dan,
My view of the “proof” you speak of above is that CBS, ABC, and NBC can’t be trusted. If dan rather WERE the only dishonest player involved, then I might agree with you. But, according to your theory, he’s not and wasn’t. He was “duped”. Which means those above and below dan rather were linvolved. And, they, along with the “smarter dupers” at ABC and NBC who haven’t yet been caught, are still active. By the way, was it CBS’s “self-policing” which caught dan rather? Nope.
Who watch’s the watcher’s, Dan? The answer to that question is the people. And, with the relentless melding of news reporters, journalists, politicians, and celebrity…the people really have no chance.
By the way, with obama people axelrod and gibbs joining the payroll as “political strategists” at NBC, how long do ya think it’ll be until valerie jarrett takes over from f. chuck todd as NBC’s white house correspondant?
“Dan,
My view of the “proof” you speak of above is that CBS, ABC, and NBC can’t be trusted. If dan rather WERE the only dishonest player involved, then I might agree with you. But, according to your theory, he’s not and wasn’t. He was “duped”. Which means those above and below dan rather were linvolved. And, they, along with the “smarter dupers” at ABC and NBC who haven’t yet been caught, are still active. By the way, was it CBS’s “self-policing” which caught dan rather? Nope.
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Who watch’s the watcher’s, Dan? The answer to that question is the people. And, with the relentless melding of news reporters, journalists, politicians, and celebrity…the people really have no chance.
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By the way, with obama people axelrod and gibbs joining the payroll as “political strategists” at NBC, how long do ya think it’ll be until valerie jarrett takes over from f. chuck todd as NBC’s white house correspondant?”
–frank
Frank, it’s obvious you’ve given a lot of low-level thought to this situation and arrived at an incredibly faulty conclusion which, just by coincidence, mirrors what you wish to believe.
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Nice job at self-deception. Please keep it up! (We know you will. . .)
Dan,
Granted, no one knows how long it’ll be before valerie jarrett replaces f. chuck as nbc white house correspondant, so, that wasn’t a fair question to expect you to answer.
Poor George Bush. He was traumatized by coverage in the media of the story developed by Dan Rather and CBS. And at the same time the media
completely ignored the swift boat attacks on John Kerry which were fostered by a group with close ties to Karl Rove who just happened to be running Bush’s campaign. It’s funny that we’ve never heard Frank complain about all the coverage that pile of steaming crap was given, especially by Faux News
which swallowed it as the gospel. And we also never hear him complain about the equally steaming pile that Rove and GWB dropped on John McCain in the South Carolina primary.
Anybody who lived during the 60′s knows that in those days the National Guard was used by people who had money and influence to buy spots for their sons to avoid the draft and keep from being sent to Vietnam. And there were numerous reports of GWB’s failure to fulfill his obligations to his Guard
unit and his cavalier attitude toward it. Conveniently it seems, those records were destroyed by a fire.
As for Chuck Todd (and David Gregory) anyone who listens to them with any regularity knows that they ask tough questions to people from both sides of the issue and IMO are as fair as any journalists currently on television.
As for Axelrod and Gibbs, they are political CONSULTANTS not Strategists
for MSNBC not NBC. As are Republicans Michael Steele and Steve Schmitt.
And of course there are no former Republican political candidates or operatives serving as Consultants, or even having their own show, on Faux
news. So you would want to consider Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and
until they couldn’t stomach her any more, Sarah Palin to be unbiased observers and commentators.
Why do we have to rehash only certain parts of the past so often here? You indulge Frank for a reason I cannot fathom. It is hilarious how he can go back to the 80′s to “discuss” the tawdry, and frankly sad elements of the Clinton years and not want to discuss Reagan’s faults that have caused real pain and Bush 2′s faults that caused real death and destruction to lives. In some part of his brain he has to know there is no comparison. Keep feeding this and it will be all you have.
wayne,
I have no problem with those obama guys being talking heads. i do have a problem with them being able to control “news”, as George Stephanopolous does at ABC. and, as far as “news” is concerned, nbc and msnbc have considerable overlap of news readers and talking heads.
“I do have a problem with them being able to control “news”, as George Stephanopolous does at ABC.”
–Frank
Frank,
Your fatal mistake is believing (or pretending to believe) that network talking heds “control” the news. That’s facical. It’s more like the news “controls” them. The news — i.e. events that happen — dictates what subject they report on, and the topics of the stuff discussed on talking-hed shows.
Think about it this way, Frank: network anchors did not tell the pope to resign. The pope resigned, and the next thing you know, the anchors were reporting it. They didn’t control anything.
If you believe the pap you’re writing here, you truly have NO idea about how news operations work. (But at least you don’t bore us to tears with smug, know-it-all screeds like Chuck’s most recent about how bias works in news operations.)
dan, george’s out of the blue debate question to Romney about “doing away with birth control” is an example of what i mean.
Frank,
Asking a question at a debate, whether out of the blue or not, is does not “control” the news.
Sure it does, dan. george is and has been an unabashed surragate for liberal talking points, and before that he was a preeminent political leader in the clinton administration…ergo, a political hack lib…and a mouth piece for lib-propaganda and lib-agendas. He wass a “host” for a republican debate…and asks a question not on anyone’s mind about Romney….except of course, to serve as the lead-in to obama doing what HE did with obamacare REQUIRING employers to offer free rubbers and pills to women and college students who can afford to pay for them. Poor women already had to access free birth control.
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THAT’S what I mean about “controlling” the news, dan.
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Perhaps I should have said, “creating” the news, eh?