The Crooked Road discontinues bid for heritage-area designation
From thecrookedroad.org
Note from Dan: The Crooked Road announced this afternoon that it’s no longer pursuing federal designation as a National Heritage Area, in the face of misinformation being spread by Tea Party activists that the designation would be “an attack on private property rights.”
Here’s my column in today’s paper about this matter.
Here’s the press release The Crooked Road sent out Thursday afternoon:
THE CROOKED ROAD PROMOTES HARMONY NOT DISCORD
“On an icy day in January 2003, a small group of volunteers from throughout Southwest Virginia sat around a pot-bellied stove at the Carter Family Fold and planned The Crooked Road. Lunch was prepared and a fervent blessing said by Jeanette Carter. The Crooked Road has always been, and continues to be, about the traditional music of Southwest Virginia. Over the last 10 years, The Crooked Road has sought to unite the communities of Southwest Virginia through their shared musical heritage. The unified nature of this initiative has also been its strength, allowing the region to establish and benefit economically from having an internationally known brand for authentic traditional music.
The Crooked Road believes it can best serve the region in the role of a unifying entity. Although a significant number of localities have supported it, the proposed Crooked Road National Heritage Area designation has not unified the entire region. Without that unity of purpose, The Crooked Road has decided to discontinue its current pursuit of the designation and focus on other important programs such as traditional music education, marketing of venues, strengthening travel industry connections, and development of a branded Crooked Road radio program to name a few.
The Crooked Road organization remains convinced that a National Heritage Area would be of great benefit to the region. Critics of the designation have made numerous claims of adverse effects, most notably that Heritage Areas are a threat to property rights. The Crooked Road diligently researched these claims and could not find a factual basis for them. The independent and well-respected Weldon Cooper Center researched these claims on behalf of local government and could not find a factual basis for them. We are not aware that critics of the designation have provided anyone with a factual basis for those claims either.
The most compelling evidence that Heritage Areas do indeed benefit communities can be found simply by looking across the state line in three directions. Local government leaders in NC, TN and WV confirmed that their existing Heritage Areas have not impacted property rights in any way. Far from having adverse effects, these Heritage Areas are providing their regions with valuable support for cultural tourism and economic value through promotion of their cultural assets.
The Crooked Road has an obligation to seek out opportunities that can benefit the region, especially when it involves revenue sources that can help stretch local funding. A National Heritage Area designation is such an opportunity. The Crooked Road is supported and operated by the communities of Southwest Virginia and deciding to pursue a National Heritage Area designation should be their decision. The Crooked Road organization also believes that decision should be made with as much unanimity as possible. That unanimity of purpose does not currently exist for the National Heritage Area. Regardless, the many localities and other stakeholders who provided letters and resolutions of support are acknowledged and appreciated.
The Crooked Road looks forward to finding new and exciting ways of assisting the communities of Southwest Virginia in celebrating their unique musical heritage. “
March 14, 2013 - 4:12 PM
It’s a shame that the lunatics won.
So they state and acknowledge that there’s no logical basis for the opposition, but cave anyway?
Yes Debbie, the lunatics are running the asylum…
Today PFG announces 30 local layoffs, and Timber Truss closes its doors laying off the last 52 of hundreds already laid off. NS lays off 150 locals this month. Does anyoone remember when the Roanoke Valley had a significant positive economic development announcement? And now this very successful tourism effort has been stopped by a bunch of teanuts…with the help of the very elected officials whose constituants have the most to gain from this designation. And folks here wonder why Sierra Nevada chose Ashville over SW Virginia? Sierra Nevada waas told that we were “cool” here in the Valley. Take heart teabagers, I’m sure we’ll be getting another Golden Corral or chinese buffet soon.
Which lunatics, Debbie ?
Of course they don’t want gunmint cash until their uninsured shacks get knocked over in a storm, then they go whining. Maybe uranium mining is just what they need down there.., clearly not much intellectual capital at risk.
As long as good people continue to surrender to these paranoid idiots
instead of fighting back and exposing their ignorance to the world, they will
continue to ruin our country and our state with their 19th century ramblings.
I sincerely wish that the Crooked Road Foundation would change their mind and fight back against their mindlessness. SWVA goes further down the rathole every day that it lets these troglodytes gain more power.
As a pro private property zealot I could support this designation save for the pork it has. Why do we spend 25 million dollars a year on stuff like this at the national level???
The Tea Party is ruining the country, yet they represent 10% of voters. Southwest Virginia politicians are complete fools. I am embarrassed to tell people where I live. Never, ever, thought that would happen.
Wouldn’t that designation benefit localities? I know we look to state parks, national parks and other designated areas for our vacation opportunitities in an effort to support localities and not corporate America. Stay at the state park, eat and shop at locally owned establishments. Our way of support and celebrating the “mom and pop” way of life.
This is so sad. Heritage should matter much more than it does already and to risk losing more of it while the GOTP fiddles (and lies) is just plain dumb.
This isn’t the kind of jamming and clogging we need.
I’d say give it another try, maybe have a “Heritage Area/Crooked Road” info campaign (petition drive?) at the spring and summer fiddle contests. Winter’s no time for organizing.
The Koch brother’s private army of dimwits continue to muck-up democracy
as only they can. Mission accomplished! D’oh!!!
Hey, now you’ll just have to find another way to waste taxpayer money!
I know! Let’s study why fat lesbians are fat!
Have a great day!
Yes, it is disheartening that this potential source of recognition and funding for The Crooked Road will no longer be pursued. The nay-sayers have pushed their non factual fear-based agenda into the minds of some decision makers at the local level. Although numerous counties, towns, and cities in the region have issued resolutions of support for the National Heritage Area designation, it is not functional or beneficial that the region and its nationally signficant music traditions be chopped up county against county. This was not an easy decision for the organization to make, but it will continue in its mission to present .and promote this music – nationally and internationally – as an engine of economic development for the region.
I for one am sorry that this happened but maybe in the future some may see the light. In between time we keep pick in’ and search out the treasures that are right here in the hills.
walt | March 14, 2013 at 7:45 pm
Hey, now you’ll just have to find another way to waste taxpayer money!
I know! Let’s study why fat lesbians are fat!
Have a great day!
Maybe a better study would be why rightwing nuts are paranoid or just stupid (or both).
This is a real shame. A week ago I read a small piece in US Airways Magazine entitled “Best Musical Pilgrimages”. There we were (via The Crooked Road) in company with the likes of Liverpool, Seattle & Vegas.Think of the thousands and thousands of passengers who thumb through this magazine every day.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/pace/usairways_march2013/#/16
Perhaps if Mr. Griffith had moved a little faster the outcome would have been different. Unless there was a reason for him moving slowly…………………………Hmmmmmmmmm
The gays and liberals would love to destroy everything in SW Va that represents decency, honesty and accountability but it won’t happen. Evil can only reproduce so much before it meets it’s Waterloo.
Well, after reading the comments about those in SWV I think that Kristen sums up the feelings expressed here the best at #6. I do wonder if ya’ll realize the SWV is generally pro union and leans toward the D side of things. I believe that Tim Kaine is from SWV. But that’s ok, as long as ya’ll keep talking about how great the heritage is in SWV and then show that special feeling by remarks like Kristen’s. Deliverance is always good for a laugh. I think the way for ya’ll to fix this is to go down to Lebanon personally and let them know your special feelings. Let Kristen be the spokesperson and you’ll be fine.
So, they lost a battle, but I think in the long run their dream will come to fruition. It’s just gonna take time. Take Heart Crooked Road!
Now folks can see one of the reasons that SW Va is so far behind the rest of the Commonwealth economically. The distorted mindset that prefers being ruled by absentee corporate interests to receiving bootstrap federal assistance is still dominant in many areas in the region.
No amount of public information would sway the thoughts of the extremists that pushed the resistance to the Heritage designation. It’s a shame when even an effort to boost the region through tourism and a celebration of one of the bulwarks of real heritage is met with such disdain.
For the record, my s/n is just a coincidence, I’m not affiliated in any way with The Crooked Road group. I do think they are doing a wonderful thing, though, in their effort to celebrate our musical heritage. They have a large and unnecessary hurdle in front of them now, unfortunately.
Wow,notice how us native liberals whose families have been in SWVA since the 1700s are offering critical assessments and concerns about preserving the musical heritage of my fiddler grandaddy, but those “loyal real” Virginians only offers slurs with no argument other than Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck said so, so it’s true. Education is the great divide. If education is what allows me to respect the past with an open mind for future, then thank God the farmers and bluegrass pickers whose blood I carry gave their sweat to make sure I could study economics and not have to struggle in hot orchards and worry over dusty fields. Thanks heavens they gave me the mind to understand economic development, climate change, and critical thinkng. Those are the tools that will preserve the heart of real Virginia, not the narcotic addicted, economic wasteland that these rural counties have become. When my great grandaddy was raising 10 children in the Great Depression,he accepted what the government offered, with great injury to his pride, but he saved his family for generations through greater opportunity with each generation. Too bad these Tea Partiers won’t sacrifice their pride for their prodigy. Shame on them.
”
Martin Luther | March 14, 2013 at 9:43 pm
The gays and liberals would love to destroy everything in SW Va that represents decency, honesty and accountability but it won’t happen. Evil can only reproduce so much before it meets it’s Waterloo.”
Yeah MK we really would like to just obliterate SWVA from the face of the earth. But we’re too darn slow. The Tea Party and the paranoid wingnuts
are beating us to it. Keep up the good work but watch out for the black
helicopters.
Dang Dan
You chased old Frank away but two more popped up to take his place. And if anything, Robbie and ML are worse. They’re like a bunch of whack-a-moles.
I just read Tad Dickens article about the Crooked Road Heritage hurdle. In reading Morgan Griffith’s comments that were listed in TD’s article but not in Dan Casey’s, I now understand better where some of the hurdles came from. As I’ve often said, Morgan Griffith is NOT working for the best interests of his district.
Thank you #19 DJ, for alerting me to what I should have already expected about Griffith’s ‘participation’.
At last count the Crooked Road generates about $23 million per year in extra revenue and impact to communities along the route. National Heritage designation would no doubt raise this impact higher, but the elected officials in those communities who oppose it have the obligation to protect the people. After all, if the citizens oppose economic and development and jobs, then the elected officials have the will of the people at heart.
Ah, such concern for the Heritage of the SWV. So, show of hands, how many go to the Fiddle and Banjo Club? It used to be in the Civic Center, but with all this love of “Old Timey” music it appears to be a traveling show these days held at local school auditoriums. Family friendly, $7, and right here in Roanoke. So ya’ll are going to donate your own money to help this great organization out…Right? After all, these poor dumb redneck’s just couldn’t get along with out you all supporting them. As Kristen says: If they would only take the “Gunmint” money. I’m sure Kristen that you didn’t mean to disparage their accent or intelegence. It was just how you show your love towards these people.
#5 “Which lunatics” The Teabagger lunatics, that’s which.
#20 “The gays and liberals would love to destroy everything in SW Va yap yap yap blah blah blah…”
My, such hatred. The Westboro Baptist Church would be proud of you. Gonna be picketing some military funerals anytime soon, bigot boy?
So, the Tea Party has been around since about 2008. SWV was an economic powerhouse right up until that time. Then…wammo…it became a narcotic addicted, economic wasteland. Who knew that the Tea Party was so powerful. I swany I ne’er thought that in just 5 or so years this could have happened. If we could only get that guvmnt money for our her-a-tage everything would be alright. Why that dirtly low down dog Griffin snookered us into not wanting that money. We just wern’t that smart. We coodv even stop minin. Glory be, what a wonderful group ya’ll are for hepn us.
And all this time I thought the interstate hurt rural VA, like say 50 ish years ago. It has been a long time since I been to Buffalo Ridge. Must be because of the Tea Party.
Dumb redneck is as dumb redneck does, GO84. I get a kick out of the tin-foilers who think the UN is just DYING to “take over” SWVA…like a bunch of trailer parks surrounding by pools of tailings would be a major draw for a group that could “take over” the French Riviera if so inclined. But when you read the statistics about why 1 in 3 counties in this country are dying as the young leave and move to places with more opportunity, stories like this Crooked Road illustrate why.
” Let’s study why fat lesbians are fat!”
you can look at the present admin for that answer
We’re better than called Tea Party people Teabaggers. Let them call liberals and moderates all the names we want. We don’t have to stoop to their level. . .
GO84 @ 9:00
“So ya’ll are going to donate your own money to help this great organization out…Right?”
Yes, GO84, you’re right; we’ve all been errant in showing our love and support for not showing up every weekend and making it rain down Benjamin’s on your kinfolk’s and neighbors. We’ll go every week from now on, seeing how you just showed us the error of our ways and guilt tripping us into going to fiddle and banjo shows. Christ, you’re worse than a Salvation Army bell ringer outside of a liquor store on Christmas eve.
Last night I counseled you about brevity, but apparently my efforts were all for naught. For your benefit, let me try again with a dumbed down example that maybe will resonate with you;
“Hi, I’m GO84, and I’m from SWV. Rather than spend taxpayer dollars on what I see as a wasteful economic development, I would prefer that everyone drive down/up/laterally to SWV to listen to our indigenous music and eat at our lovely restaurants, especially Hales. Oh, and also kindly refrain from making fun of our accents. And one more thing; try to patronize the fiddle and banjo shows in your area so that you, too, can learn the reason banjo players are always walking when they play; to get away from the dreadful music! Finally, if you really want to support the region, use more expensive and dirtier coal rather than cleaner, cheaper and more plentiful natty gas. Do this because my forefathers fought in wars. BTW, we’re proud peoples; DON”T give us tax money but DO come once a week to our show, and give us your money that way, ’cause we don’t take no handouts.”
See? Easy! Just one short paragraph and boom, done. Hope this helps.
And…pammalala pops in to offer up something of zero value or relevance.
GO84 #32, did you “mean to disparage their accent or intelegence” in your post?
oh kristen just because I thought of that before you did, lol ….speaking of zero value, you must be talking about your mind and obama
“We’re better than called Tea Party people Teabaggers.”
really dannyboy, where is your grammar, this sentence makes no sense.
Well pammala, at least you have the comfort of knowing neither Bush or Reagan ever wasted taxpayer money or did anything wrong…oh wait…, never-mind, you don’t care about anything but the dirt you can throw at the Obama family. Typical.
Dan, I take your point and since I learned the meaning, I have tried not to use that reference, but they are hardly a political party so “TEA Party” is not right either. I just use GOTP (coined here by J.M. White, I think) as it encompasses them all. They are the right wing of the Republican Party.
Mrs. Saunders, no I was writing the way I actually grew up speaking and even after a college education still speak somewhat. Bet you would never guess that English was my worst subject. What I was intending to show is how ya’ll perceive us. I believe the Russell Co. BOS is made up of a full house that includes Rep, Dem, and Ind. Ya’ll act like these people are dumb as a fence post. Do you really feel that the Crooked Road is the great revival? I grew up in Roanoke, but spent a lot of time in Carroll / Pulaski Co looking after my grandparents, helping with planting, harvesting, and visiting them. I’m talking several times a week for years. Those wonderful children I went to school with laughed at my accent, my music, and my heritage. When I got to high school I wore it as a badge of honor. But, it does hurt when your 5, 6, 7 years old. Kids like to make fun of differences. I still get ribbed to this day about my accent, and music but I give as good as I get.
Now, suddenly this Crooked Road came up and oh the horror. Forgive me if I’m underwhelmed by all this caring and sentiment. Then I see all the wonderful names posters use to describe the people they disagree with. The very people they pretend to want to help. Please, this is just about getting something else to beat up the Tea Party with and if some “poor hillbillies” are disparaged in the process, so be it. BTW, I was excited when the Tea Party started, I want to see some shake up in the parties, but IMHO they have since flopped. So don’t for an instant think this is me defending the Tea Party.
Teresa, we have something in common. My great granddad grew up in a “Great Depression” too. Though, the history books don’t refer to it that way. See he was born in 1860 and grew up in what is called Reconstruction. His generation had a different outlook on the gov’t. The feelings they had carried down thru the generations reinforced by events of the times that each generation lived. One of my grandfathers education stopped at 7th grade. That means he never left the little school house to go to secondary school. He was a lead supervisor on many construction projects like RU and VT. He could do trig using a framing square, built his own SW radio, liked photography, and tinkering. He started out in the family lumber mill, but after ww2 he started to travel more and left the family business along with all the other vets who returned. SWV’s problems have to do with people leaving after ww2 to get a better life, the interstate system bypassing them, and family members dying off so that there isn’t anything personal left to go back to. The Tea Party doesn’t have 1 iota to do with it and the CR isn’t going to bring it back. I’m sure that stopping these people from mining will greatly help the area see a revival though.
GO84, there is NOTHING you can tell me about being bullied and made fun of! I was 6 years old when I became “a four-eyed freak” for any bully on the bus, so pardon me if your story pulls at no heart strings.
When I visit Philadelphia where my daughter lives, people go on and on about my “accent”. I am proud of my southern heritage and my own redneck, mountainside, bluegrass roots, but I learned long ago to separate the wheat from the chaff and admit that their are some not so “good old boys” in the mix as well.
That chip on your shoulder has you rooting for the wrong team IMO, and I am sure you feel the same way about me. I think we take just as much as we give here.
Well, it’s obvious who reads Dan Casey….and even functional illiterates may have heard the old saw about everyone having an opinion.
The FACTS speak for itself. There are THOUSANDS documented cases of proven property rights abuses directly related to “heritage” areas.
The Crooked Road and Jack Hinshelwood can quote all the Weldon Cooper studies he wants. It’s nothing but propaganda. Ask the people who have lost their property, been displaced or forced to sell by the strong-arm National Park Service.
Keep believing the spin, folks….our Appalachian heritage was here long before this 501c3 special interest group with a congressman in their pocket. It’ll still be here when Jack and the boys are long gone.
The Tea Party will not be satisfied until most Americans have only Saltines to eat, pond water to drink, pavement to stare at, and dreams of spending money at Walmart.
imbeciles!
Mrs. Saunders, I don’t have a chip on my shoulder, if I came across that way it was not intentional. I only gave that example from my childhood to illustrate Roanoke vs SWV. I love SWV, though I don’t go there very often. I too had glasses and I always gave as good as I got. I would have gotten a whoopin’ for fighting over being name called and I would have gotten a whoopin’ for not beating the crap out of a bully. Which I did on occasion. I was considered a good kid.
However, I read this stuff about the CR not getting approval at some local board meetings and suddenly this is a conspiracy from the Koch brothers, and people wearing tin foil hats. Oh those poor people too ignorant to know better. This is exactly what I’m trying to get across. People on here in Roanoke automatically assume that there is a dastardly plot afoot in SWV and these people must be saved. It couldn’t possibly be because they don’t want to spend the money on this. Or that they don’t see the big savior in the plan presented. It couldn’t possibly be a simple disagreement about how THEY want to spend THEIR money. If ya’ll want to rant and rave about the Tea Party or the Koch brothers then have at it, but don’t patronize or disparage the people of SWV to do it. Just as a side note: these poor ignorant people as they are being portrayed were making a living in SWV long before there was a Roanoke and they are just as smart and educated as the people here in Roanoke.
People, if all this heritage and bluegrass music is so wonderful. Then why is the Roanoke Fiddle and Banjo Club touring school auditoriums instead of being at the Civic Center being broadcast over WSLC and playing to a packed house? Exactly, there is no money in it. Its hay day was 50 years ago. People today don’t relate to the stories anymore and don’t care for the instruments. How many here knew that Jerry Garcia started out playing bluegrass? There are a lot of musicians that started out in folk / bluegrass, if there were money in this they would be doing it.
“People, if all this heritage and bluegrass music is so wonderful. Then why is the Roanoke Fiddle and Banjo Club touring school auditoriums instead of being at the Civic Center being broadcast over WSLC and playing to a packed house? Exactly, there is no money in it. Its hay day was 50 years ago. People today don’t relate to the stories anymore and don’t care for the instruments. How many here knew that Jerry Garcia started out playing bluegrass? There are a lot of musicians that started out in folk / bluegrass, if there were money in this they would be doing it.”
–GO84
Allow me to rephrase and fix this little nugget:
“People, if rock’n roll is so wonderful, then why is Johnny Doe’s rock band practicing in a garage? Why are they not playing the Verizon Center, or Carnegie Hall? Why isn’t every rock musician, from everywhere, on MTV? Exactly, there is no money in it for almost everyone who gets in it. Forget the Rolling Stones. What about Johnny Doe and bandmates? If there were money in rock people would be doing it.”
Uh . . . anyone ever hear of Sam Bush? Allison Krauss? Anyone ever hear of Ralph Stanley? There are people making money playing bluegrass music.
Besides that, the arts aren’t always about instant wealth. Van Gogh wasn’t rich in his day . . . but today, one of his paintings will set you back millions.
I hope you understand now how ridiculous GO84′s argument is.
“Keep believing the spin, folks….our Appalachian heritage was here long before this 501c3 special interest group with a congressman in their pocket. It’ll still be here when Jack and the boys are long gone.”
Except no one will there left to care. Enjoy eating dirt.
Mr. Casey, don’t get me wrong, I love bluegrass have my whole life. But we’re not talking about individuals we’re talking about a genre of music. When I find a radio station that plays bluegrass, I’m on it. But it never lasts long. Funny you should bring up Ralph. How old is he exactly? Let’s see he made his fortune back around the time that Don and Red were on channel 7 in the mornings. Yep, if memory serves that was in the early 60’s… a little math… that would be about 50 years ago. Momma Cass played with the Big 3 about the same time, funny I wonder how many remember Nora’s Dove or Rider and how many remember California Dreamin’. Now about Alison, lordy mercy may my wife not find out but I could watch that girl all day. But, somehow I never seem to catch her on the radio.
What we are discussing here is why Russell Co BOS and others aren’t jumping on the CR band wagon. And how if the CR would just get the money they could have people all over getting off the BRP and driving to Russell Co just to hear the bluegrass music. Jump on Map Quest and get a little drive time for that. I really don’t think that this is going to be a savior. But its art, so Russell Co should be willing to spend money just to have this, because I’m sure they don’t have any other pending issues to deal with.
Now, about the people in SWV being paranoid of government. You really think that no one knows about or had kin at Blair Mtn. The article, that I believe the RT run a few years ago, about the man with the interstate over his house. If you start looking you can find issues involving gov’t land grabs. Now, let’s weigh the pro’s and con’s. Yep this is the most absolutely pressing issue that Russell Co BOS has and they must have been wearing their tin foil hats.
Personally, I think that this is just an opportunity for you to drive traffic and beat up on the Tea Party and the article 21 or whatever. That’s fine you get a twofer. I just don’t like all these posters on here professing their dying love for something that doesn’t work where they live but Russell Co should have it. Then disparage the people whose heritage they want to preserve. I’ve read many on here who have used Deliverance references to poke at other posters. So again, pardon me if I don’t get weak kneed over the CR and everyone’s sudden interest in SWV heritage.
GO84, I presume you realize that the RF&BC has seen it’s first generation of leadership finally yielding to time, epitomized by the passing last fall of Mr. RF&BC himself, Hilliard Jones. The fact that they no longer are in the RCC auditorium is more indicative of finding the right size venue than a radical shift in popularity, which has stabilized somewhat after seeing greater declines a decade or more ago. Don’t forget that when the RF&BC started, it used outdoor venues, school auditoriums, and the Salem/Roanoke Co. Civic Center (as it was then known), and the moves were not always simply a function of popularity.
I’ve found that the clannishness and parochial defensiveness so common among bluegrass fans and performers is more often a reflection of their pre-existing mindsets than a reaction to the perceptions of others. When Roy Hall and the Monroe Brothers were playing in the ’30′s, they weren’t particularly considered guardians of a proud old tradition, and when Bill had his mid-40′s classic lineup, it was positively innovative. Yet self-righteousness is an aspect of Monroe’s legacy that has hindered Bluegrass’ popularity no less than the copycat nihilism of Charlie Parker’s fans limited his style of music in the same era.
If those opposed to heritage designation for the Crooked Road and the county BOS along the route have better immediate ideas for attracting interested vistors, let’s hear them. So far, all we’ve heard is the same old repetition of banalities, no different than one hears from a bunch of mediocre hack pickers who just love to flatter themselves with the fiction that they’re defending the old ways, in order to excuse their lack of new ideas for the future of their music or their region.
Mr. Casey, lets review what your posters have to say about the people of SWV.
Because Russell Co BOS won’t give money to the CR they:
Will be eating Dirt, are imbeciles, wear tin foil hats, are paranoid, are teabaggers, are lunatics, are rightwing nuts, dimwits, fell for Koch bros. schemes, are complete fools, surrendering to paranoid idiots, letting the lunatics run the asylum, and on and on and on. Gee wonder why people from SWV feel the way they do about Roanoke. You people ought to be ashamed to act like spoiled children that have been told no. Especially since its not your money.
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves for calling people that you don’t know these onerous names just because they don’t agree with you. You people disparage, make fun of the very heritage that you want them to pay for.
So lets look at this another way. Ya’ll want them to pay for an “art” project so you’ll have a place to go on weekends, to visit their heritage. When they don’t want to play ya’ll then throw a tantrum and start screeming obscenities at them.
Tell them they will die and eat dirt just because they choose not agree with the idea.
So Mr. Casey, your neighbor comes up and demands that you build a tree house for his kids on your land and provide a playground at your expense. But he will send his kids over to play so you will ultimately be happy and he may pay you someday if you make it artful.
What a group…
A couple other things, GO84: Ralph Stanley has never made a “fortune” as you put it. And WSLC carried the RF&BC as long as it did only because Herm Reavis, longtime gm at WSLC, was and is a huge country fan. It was not because it was a profit venture; sure, it sustained itself, but it’s greater value to the station was in building an audience identity and community goodwill. (Reavis was even in the Decca studio the day Buck Ryan cut “Uncle Herm’s Hornpipe” named in his honor, proof that his interest was deep, genuine, and irreplaceable by later management).
And you said Bluegrass’ heyday was 50 years ago? Well, hate to say it, but time flies, and there have been several high points in BG popularity, with a steadier buildup through recent decades. But 50 years ago, in 1963, the Flatt & Scruggs led popularity of BG was already seen as a resurgence, after the true initial heyday of the 1945-55 era. That era’s 58 years or more and counting. And it’s still not old enough to always justify some of the self-righteousness about tradition that gets thrown around bluegrass so easily. But it’s the Crooked Road that does best justify the claims of tradition, because that’s about the places and people, not about the professionals of music.
Russel Co. is just hard to reach because the topography is like wrinkled up paper, and light population density has left it with fewer capital improvements. But like much of Appalachia, it’a biggest problem has always been control of land and resources by non-local absentee exploiters. The CR and Heritage designation are steps in regaining local control of their destiny, the very thing the anti-agenda 21 crowd claims to want.
Anyone who thinks bluegrass/traditional music is “dead” should turn off their television and head out to one of the hundreds of music festivals or fiddler conventions available throughout the land. Better yet, buy a stringed instrument and come out to Roanoke’s Fiddle and Banjo Club gatherings on the first Saturday each month and play along with a couple hundred Roanokers who are living the music — and preserving it for posterity. Check out http://home.comcast.net/~bluegrass-in-roanoke/site/?/home/ and find jams and open mics that feature this music. This genre is VIBRANT and it originated HERE. Only a person ignorant of this music and its culture and traditions would dare say it is irrelevant or dead.
“Mr. Casey, lets review what your posters have to say about the people of SWV.
Because Russell Co BOS won’t give money to the CR they:
Will be eating Dirt, are imbeciles, wear tin foil hats, are paranoid, are teabaggers, are lunatics, are rightwing nuts, dimwits, fell for Koch bros. schemes, are complete fools, surrendering to paranoid idiots, letting the lunatics run the asylum, and on and on and on. Gee wonder why people from SWV feel the way they do about Roanoke. You people ought to be ashamed to act like spoiled children that have been told no. Especially since its not your money.”
–GO84
GO84
Now you’re making stuff up so you can pretend to feel wounded.
This has nothing to do with whether Russell County or anyone else will give money to the CR. It has to do with whether Russell County (and some others) will offer political support to a process that could and would bring pride to the region and which could, and would, lead to federal money for the further development and promotion of the CR. The fact that they would not has undermined NHA’s chances, and their votes were based on the rantings of a handful of conspiracy theorists who’ve made a lot of noise.
The other part of your rant is straw man stuff . . . and is as illogical as the Tea Party chairman’s statement to me that they know its part of Agenda 21 because there’s no evidence that it is.
When we spoke, one of the thing Charlie Hargis told me was, “We’ve talking to experts all over the country” about the meaning of an NHA designation. There were three “experts,” he added. He told me the names of 2: Don Casey from Alabama, a retired steelworker, and Tom DeWeese of Faquier County. After I heard those names I didn’t bother to ask him the third. Both of those guys are anti-Agenda 21 activists who see a government black helicopter every time they get buzzed by a curious dragonfly.
I could list so many more venues….but it’s Friday night and my family and I are going to the Floyd Country Store for their Friday night jamboree. It’s $7 a head, and free if you take your musical instrument — which you’ll want because there is all kinds of jamming outdoors and upstairs. grrrrrr….the more I think about what we have LOST here the madder I get. So sad.
http://www.bluegrasscircle.com/
Check it out – a list to ALL bluegrass festivals….very extensive.
GO84: However, I read this stuff about the CR not getting approval at some local board meetings and suddenly this is a conspiracy from the Koch brothers, and people wearing tin foil hats. Oh those poor people too ignorant to know better.
It’s the worry that southwestern Virginia elected a bunch of politicians who promised to support what they believe in but turned out to support what their former (or current) corporate and industrial business buddies believe in instead.
Rural Virginians tend to be land-rich and money-poor. They scare easily when someone threatens to come in and take over their land: they think someone’s trying to pick their pocket because the land is the currency. That’s why they’re so protective of it. It used to be when my dad was young and still working his father’s tobacco farm in Scott County that landholders were resistant to sell property to business or government. Now, they still feel that way about government, but not so much about business anymore.
It’s sad to think of those same landholders or their inheritors rolling over for agribusiness or industry but fussing about a matching grant for what would essentially be tourism dollars. Dolly Parton transformed her dying hometown of Sevierville, Tennessee into a tourist trap attraction because she wanted to bring something back to the place where she grew up. Why is it okay for a celebrity to care about someplace but verboten for the government to do the same?
(And wasn’t there a bit of a dust-up a while back when the Natural Bridge’s historical designation was in doubt? I remember the RT doing an article about it but I can’t seem to find it. I remember it had a picture with it of a couple on honeymoon who picked Natural Bridge as their destination.)
“Dang Dan
You chased old Frank away but two more popped up to take his place.”
I’ve haven’t been around as much lately (Lent you know). Has Frank bagged out on us?
Beverly, my brother played bluegrass for years at the FBC with several bands. He even got to sub on a set with Bill Monroe in upstate NY. We went to the Roanoke Civic Center and sat in the auditorium. We gave money when they passed the hat. We listened to it broadcast live on WSLC. I remember when the Civic Center started charging for parking. Now, the FBC appears to be at HS auditoriums. So you’re point is that its more popular than ever? I remember going to Lithia. Last I heard that was long gone. I love bluegrass and I know there are all these little venues, but you’re telling me that thousands of people are going to get off the BRP and drive the CR (~6 hrs) up to Russell Co, or to the KY border to see a bluegrass show.
Pirengle, Dolly Parton created a place to go. A theme park based on her roots and I commend her for it. The CR is a nostalgic drive from the BRP to the KY border area. I just don’t see this as being anywhere close to the BRP in any way shape or form. The BRP has funding issues and it’s straight up fed operated. This, as it appears to me, is going to be some sort of quasi fed thing combined with about 70ish different elected groups between counties, towns, and cities plus the organization(s) overseeing the CR. I believe I’d hold off on backing it.
Mr. Casey, so you’re telling me that none of the posters here have been intimating that the Russell Co BOS bowed to outside pressure from nefarious groups. Then, subsequently, started making onerous comments about the bowing to these groups.
I read in the article a curious paragraph that I must admit I could have misinterpreted. “NHA’s receive between 150k and 750k in MATCHING federal funds annually depending on how developed their plans are and how much LOCAL money is raised.” So you’re telling me that Russell Co BOS will never be expected to give monies for anything to do with the CR.
Lets see, have there been any other local art projects in the past few years. Oh, wait a minute. I remember the wife of a local business man decided that Roanoke needed more art culture and that thousands of people from all over the world would flock to see our great and wondrous achievement. Lets make it look like the blue ride mountains and we’ll stock it with fine art and charge lots of money for an entrance fee. The local venues will be brimming with people walking around and buying all the local wares. Fast forward a few years and how is that working so far? But, its art it’s not supposed to make money.
So now we are going to have a network of current roads ~300 miles long as an excursion from the BRP and I guess the ~300 miles back to the BRP all at about 45 mph with traffic signals and the like. All this for people to see our heritage and bluegrass music (art). Which will bring in huge revenues for the localities and create hotels. The localities that are for this appear to be near something, an interstate, university, so this will be like a bonus for them. Hmmm, I’m still not seeing it. I guess I’m just the negative Nancy on this one. It wouldn’t take any nefarious groups to make me wary of this.
“The fact that they no longer are in the RCC auditorium is more indicative of finding the right size venue than a radical shift in popularity” – Warren
You have got to be in marketing. So they went from outside to schools to the RCC. Then the RCC got to big for them not because of a lack of people in the seats but because they needed to find a smaller venue. So if suddenly 10% of the Roanoke Valley started clamoring for bluegrass they would stay in the schools because thats the right size venue.
Mr. Casey is the one who brought up Ralph and his money making. Back in the late 50′s early 60′s alot of singers were playing and singing folk music, then they moved on to the rock scene. Bluegrass is something you enjoy listening to or playing, you’re not going to get rich. But, Alison, thats a different story…
Too bad Morgan Griffith and Bob Goodlatte didn’t have the balls to take on the wacko teabaggers! Of course, Goodlatte is a first deluxe lying POS. He’s the one who promised to push for term limits for himself and all of Congress. You see how that one went. Goodlatte is as a big POS lying SOB as is the chief USA liar, Obumma bin Lying, and is the same class as Obumma!
I am glad to see all you liberals and dems practice tolerance…NOT! Your name calling and degrading comments about the Tea Party are insulting.
http://www.bluegrasscircle.com/ <—–
Bluegrass/traditional music is a vibrant part of our culture. It is part of our heritage and it is worth preserving and promoting — there is so much more to it than a once-a-month gathering at a local high school. Those who say it's dying/dead probably just don't care for it. I don't care for classical music, but I would never say it's not important to our culture. If a community is willing to raise money and receive a matching grant in federal monies to promote the arts — and provide a positive economic impact to its community — why would anyone say NO to that? We send our money to Washington — we should get some of it back and use it to promote our region and preserve our heritage for posterity.
“The bottom line is, kooky and extreme right-wing politics are being used to derail the promotion of bluegrass music”……..Dan Casey
“Griffith, a conservative Republican, and Warner, a moderate Democrat, are both working for an NHA designation.” Please do not repeat that Griffith is working against the NHA designation. That is incorrect and it is unfair to Morgan.
“I am glad to see all you liberals and dems practice tolerance…NOT! Your name calling and degrading comments about the Tea Party are insulting.”
–Al
It sounds like somebody’s feelings are hurt. Al, how would you prefer that we describe the Tea Party? As brilliant philosophers and analytical social critics who have a keen sense of fact and are able to easily discriminate that from fiction? I mean, Jesus, that would be a total lie.
There are a few smart people in the Tea Party. They are coldly calculating politicos who are using the movement to corral the dumb sheep who make up the majority of the movement. Many TPers spin gigantic conspiracies out of partial historical footnotes. They ought to be embarrassed, but they lack enough self awareness to ever feel that way.
That’s strong language, but it’s accurate.
Sorry, Al, but it’s hard to consider anyone who seriously believes the UN wants to take over SW VA and steal everyones property, as intelligent.
Just remember folks……believe NOTHING from the left. Thier only hope lies in decieving the weak….look how they`ve achieved that in the major cities…Massive #`s of people, most of which pronbably can`t even read or write, but that doesn`t matter to the `left`…just as long as they can VOTE. There is a reason they have to lie about thier `product`.
Agenda 21….the last bastian of hope for the left…It will be destroyed from the inside, out. Bye, Bye `socail utopia`….You leftists had best get on your knees and pray to the LORD…that is the closet form of a `social utopia` that you`ll ever see.
@72 Dan – best description of the TP’s that I have ever read without using the words lunatics, deluded, racist….
Good job Dan.
“closet form”? I never heard of Agenda 21 until the TP’s started ranting and raving about it.
Bye, Bye `socail utopia`….You leftists had best get on your knees
Enjoying that mustache-twirling, Snidely? All you’re missing is the megalomaniacal cackle.
Al, that’s what they do. When they get in the gutter, you know you’ve struck a good chord.
hey gdad at post 61, I’m flattered you missed me!
Frank | March 16, 2013 at 5:21 pm
Al, that’s what they do. When they get in the gutter, you know you’ve struck a good chord.
Frank. Speaking of the gutter, how’s your PhD research on instances of ambassador rape coming along.
Frank, I was just hoping that the comment that Dan had chased you away was true. Sorry it wasn’t.
“Frank. Speaking of the gutter, how’s your PhD research on instances of ambassador rape coming along.”
You mean the Frank who can’t get knee pads off his mind?
To the person who claims that the purpose of funding “The Crooked Road” is TO BUILD MORE ROADS into SW Virginia — your ignorance and willingness to inflict on others is quite astonishing. Perhaps you were never told that it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open our mouth and remove all doubt.
TAKEN FROM THE BOOK: “A Guide to the Crooked Road: Virginia’s Heritage Music Trail” by Joe Wilson:
The Crooked Road is a 253-mile stretch of mostly two-lane highway that ALREADY EXISTS and connects the Piedmont Plateau and the eastern slopes of the Blue Ridge Mountains to the coal fields of the Cumberland Mountains. It also connects some of American’s most musical communities — this is where part of America’s music was born!
.The pavement may require 20 miles to go 10.It stretches from the farthest southwest counties of Lee and Wise and Dickenson along the Carolina border to Floyd and Franklin Counties. Roanoke is not a part of the Crooked Road.
Two Of Virginia’s highest Appalachian peaks are along this road which crosses tumbling creeks and sedate rivers that have carved deep valleys. There are small towns along the road, some with one stop light, some with none but with histories reaching back to the 1700′s. The music played by the settlers of that time is alive and a part of culture today. The music can be found in countless weekly jams, in the festivals that are both community based and historic, in fiddlers conventions, in the schools, in small museums and luthier workshops and performance venues scattered all along the road,
The music found here is traditional music — and there are many different types of traditional music. But all of them are part of heritage and help us to understand and celebrate the history of our Commonwealth.
Tourism $$ in Virginia
Tourism is one of Virginia’s most powerful industries – bringing in billions of dollars in tax revenue and supporting hundreds of thousands of jobs for Virginians. The facts and stats below are a glimpse of the positive economic impact of tourism in Virginia.
In 2011 Virginia Tourism:
Generated $20.4 billion in visitor spending
Supported 207,000 jobs
Provided $1.32 billion in state and local taxes for Virginia’s communities
What tourism tax revenue means to Virginia
Every $1 Virginia invests in tourism marketing generates $5 in tax revenue for the Commonwealth. That’s a 5:1 return on investment.
Additional information on the economic impact of tourism in Virginia, including information for localities, is available at http://www.vatc.org/research/economicimpact.asp.
SW Virginia has a historic musical treasure chest that could benefit the citizens who live here as well as the tourists who are already visiting here. But how will those tourists even KNOW about the Crooked Road and all the fabulous musical opportunities that await them? Thank the Teabaggers for this loss. Every $1 spent promoting tourism in Virginia generates $5 in tax revenue. We lost big time. Thanks Teabaggers. Are you happy now?
hey wayne, hey gdad! so, the bobsey twins are out and about late this evening, eh?
Well, I’ve got a mystery for you, since YOU brought up those knee pads, gdad. Why don’t you figure out their relationship to bill clinton?
Frank | March 17, 2013 at 12:52 am
hey wayne, hey gdad! so, the bobsey twins are out and about late this evening, eh?
Well, I’ve got a mystery for you, since YOU brought up those knee pads, gdad. Why don’t you figure out their relationship to bill clinton
heyfrank! I’ve got a suggestion for you. Since you’re so fascinated by knee pads, why don’t you buy a pair and put them where the sun doesn’t shine.
Then if you ever find yourself in the position that you claimed the ambassador was in, you’ll have some protection.
GO84: I just don’t see this as being anywhere close to the BRP in any way shape or form. The BRP has funding issues and it’s straight up fed operated.
From the National Park Service website:
Q: How is [a National Heritage Area] different from a National Park?
A: A National Heritage Area is not a unit of the National Park Service, nor is any land owned or managed by the NPS. National Park Service involvement is always advisory in nature.
There’s the Shenandoah Valley NHA. Maybe this was done in response to Disney attempting to plop down a theme park in Haymarket. http://www.shenandoahatwar.org/
And there’s the Blue Ridge NHA in North Carolina. They’ve got a music heritage thing going on down there too. http://www.blueridgeheritage.com/heritage/music
I look at that and think to myself, why is this a bad idea for the Crooked Road?
As far as tinfoil hatting, the Southwestern VA Tea Party itself links it to Agenda 21. Here, read it yourself: http://swvateapartyab.org/?p=1648
“Debbie | March 16, 2013 at 4:11 pm
“closet form”? I never heard of Agenda 21 until the TP’s started ranting and raving about it.”
ADMITTED LOW INFO VOTER ALERT !!!!!
LOL, do you understand the concept of reading other than rt dearie
Dan Casey | March 16, 2013 at 1:37 pm
“I am glad to see all you liberals and dems practice tolerance…NOT! Your name calling and degrading comments about the Tea Party are insulting.”
–Al
It sounds like somebody’s feelings are hurt. Al, how would you prefer that we describe the Tea Party? As brilliant philosophers and analytical social critics who have a keen sense of fact and are able to easily discriminate that from fiction? I mean, Jesus, that would be a total lie.
There are a few smart people in the Tea Party. They are coldly calculating politicos who are using the movement to corral the dumb sheep who make up the majority of the movement. Many TPers spin gigantic conspiracies out of partial historical footnotes. They ought to be embarrassed, but they lack enough self awareness to ever feel that way.
That’s strong language, but it’s accurate.
XXX This whole post is just wrong. I am surprised Dan wrote it. Tea Party
members may have different political beliefs than Liberal Progressives but that does not make them wrong, or stupid, or embarrassed, or not self aware.
Members of the Tea Party are mechanics who fix your car, accountants who
prepare your taxes, servicemen who protect our country, police officers who
serve the public and teachers who help the children. It’s just wrong to malign
a group of people because they believe differently than you. . .tolerance is a
virtue which Dan obviously lacks.
But then, that is the whole nature of this blog. When the new Dan rules of
civility where implemented it became quite clear they were not meant to be enforced against Liberal Progressives. We have even had entire threads meant only to demean certain conservatives like Awood. Suzie is abused
frequently by a whole host of Liberal Progressives and by Dan to the point
he even demeans her employment. This is sick stuff. It’s one thing to
agree to disagree but abusing others simply because they believe differently than you is wrong.
There are two sides to the abortion issue. Based on scientific research it is
clear that life starts at conception. Why then is it deemed approriate for a
liberal conservative to malign a conservative for making the point that abortion can be considered murder? Why should taxpayer dollars, taken from both liberals and conservatives, be used to fund abortion agencies and
vehicles like Planned Parenthood? IMO, because PP has a liberal political
perspective is not a valid reason.
Global warming as an issue has two sides. It is clear the science facts about
global warming were intentionally altered to suggest man is responsible for
global warming. The liberal progressives tend to adopt this position despite the fraud uncovered in the data. Why? Are they stupid? Are they coldly calculating politicos who think global warming will lead to bigger government and a new way to steal from the taxpayers through creation of the falsified commodity of carbon credits?
Dan finds it perfectly acceptable to demean conservatives who feel our governments position on the economy is out of control; yet the GAO stated this year that they could not complete an audit of the Federal Government because of a lack of internal control. The government is out of control; the
corruption, waste and abuse is appalling.
Gun ownership is a right of the people. It is an individual right as opined by the Supreme Court and as delineated in the constitution. Statistics prove that
the more guns that are in the hands of private citizens has a direct correlation to less crime. How can any proposal to ban guns or register guns on an accross the board basis be a good, rather than a stupid thing? What reasonable basis is there for the Department of Homeland Security to purchase, despite the troubled economy, 1.6 billion rounds of ammo (a 100 year supply), 7000 AR-15 firearms, and 2700 armored urban assualt vehicles when we have an armed citizenery, local and state police, the national guard and US military around to provide safety and security?
All of our elected political leaders take an oath of office to preserve and protect our constitution. How can liberal progressives endorse actions by
the government which are clearly in violation of such oaths? How can anyone
support or endorse a candidate for reelection who, in the past, voted for legislation; which was opposed by a majority of the people as documented by polling and other methods; without even bothering to read such legislation or have an understanding of what provisions were in the legislation? This is not representation; it is unrepresentation.
IMO Conservative values and principles are, more often than not, correct as they are based on common sense. The government should be smaller and less powerful; therefore, more controllable by the people. Liberals, as a group, are not smarter, more compassionate, or correct as compared to conservatives. Most liberal opinions expressed on this blog, IMO, are not
thought out or reasoned perspectives but rather mere echoes of some idiocy
expressed by their Messiah or other prominent liberal living the lie, big time.
Dan, would you trust your daughter being alone with Bill Clinton?
#85 Usual Frank nonsense.
#88…maybe a little of the `low info voter` there pammala, but its mostly the fact that these people live in a bubble, not allowing anything to penetrate that upsets thier utopian dream. In other words, a total lack of reality.
I have never feared the UN taking any American’s property away from them. I lack the paranoia gene.
Awood and pammala, we just don’t read conspiracy websites.
Why would anyone fear the UN? What is there to fear?
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-11/opinions/35745726_1_senate-republicans-treaty-disabled-people
“The Republicans’ unreconstructed paranoia about an organization dedicated to global cooperation isn’t new (remember Ron Paul warning of those black helicopters?). No, now it’s just been mainstreamed in the GOP’s circulatory system, another example of the party’s increasingly delusional, and ossified, worldview.”
“The 2012 Republican Party platform, for instance, declares that the GOP “shall reject agreements whose long-range impact on the American family is ominous or unclear.” Treaties singled out include the U.N. Convention on Women’s Rights (clearly a dangerously lesbian document); the Convention on the Rights of the Child (a ploy to snatch American children away from their parents); the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty (no doubt a prelude to “full-scale gun confiscation”); basically anything from the U.N. Conference on Environment and Development (tree-hugging); and the Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities (dastardly intentions detailed above).”
“Then there was last July’s Law of the Sea Treaty, which would have helped the United States expand our energy resources and secure our ships’ freedom of navigation. For those reasons, business leaders and environmentalists, former presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, and even military leaders and former Republican secretaries of state were all on board. But the U.N. bogeyman reared its blue-helmeted head, and the treaty went down to a watery grave.”
It’s not the liberals, exhibiting a total lack of reality.
New World Order. One world government. Snort.
Leon
There are two sides to the abortion issue. Based on scientific research it is
clear that life starts at conception
It is clear the science facts about
global warming were intentionally altered to suggest man is responsible for
global warming.
Gun ownership is a right of the people. It is an individual right as opined by the Supreme Court and as delineated in the constitution. Statistics prove that
the more guns that are in the hands of private citizens has a direct correlation to less crime. How can any proposal to ban guns or register guns on an accross the board basis be a good, rather than a stupid thing? What reasonable basis is there for the Department of Homeland Security to purchase, despite the troubled economy, 1.6 billion rounds of ammo (a 100 year supply), 7000 AR-15 firearms, and 2700 armored urban assualt vehicles when we have an armed citizenery, local and state police, the national guard and US military around to provide safety and security?
All of our elected political leaders take an oath of office to preserve and protect our constitution. How can liberal progressives endorse actions by
the government which are clearly in violation of such oaths
Not a single one of these broad generalizations is verified by fact. Your
“it is clear” statements are nothing but right wing dogma regurgitated as fact
with nothing to back them up. They are only “clear” in your head. You have the right to your opinions but not your own “facts” which are nowhere in evidence in this rant.
wayne goodman, it appears you are guilty of the same overly broad and hasty generalization you accuse Leon of when you so arbitrarily dismiss all of his claims.
I will grant that the validity of global warming research is anything but clear and that it has not been proven that anyone has altered anything, only alleged.
However, are you actually asserting that the statement that the US Supreme Court did not rule that gun ownership is an individual right? Because if you are, it is you who is making up your own facts to support your opinion. If, like so many others here, you are demanding proof, please refer to District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) in which the SCOTUS specifically held:
“The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”
The gun issue aside, I would be interested, scientifically speaking, when you think life begins. Before you assert that it is at birth, please bear in mind that there are some forms of life that aren’t “born” in the traditional sense. There are also many forms of life that never demonstrate sentience, yet are still considered to be “alive”. If it helps leave the politics out of the question, you should know up front, I am not in favor of outlawing abortion. I think it should be legal and remain a private decision. I just think it is disingenuous to try to justify it by saying the aborted fetus isn’t “technically” alive. As a side note, it is my personal opinion that any time you have preface something with “Technically” in a political argument or general discussion, what follows is some kind of BS used to rationalize or justify something people don’t really believe.
Chuck is correct: The U.S. Supreme Court discovered an individual right in the 2nd Amendment in 2008, 217 years after the 2nd Amendment was adopted.
Thus, there has has been an individual right for less than 5 years; that right went unrecognized for 212 previous years of jurisprudence.
Chuck is also correct that nobody has proved global warming scientists altered anything for the purpose of making their case. All there have been are allegations from some right-wing blowhards and questions raised about global warming theories by a tiny sliver of scientists.
The fact is, we are as close to a scientific consensus on the subject as we can ever get. You’ll never get 100 percent of scientists to ever agree on anything.
It’s reminiscent of the 50s and 60s when scientists told us that there was a definite link between smoking and lung cancer. There were a very few scientists who hotly disputed that link for many years (most of them were in the employ of the tobacco industry). The “proof” that there was NO link was that not every smoker got lung cancer and that some nonsmokers DID get lung cancer. That is not science, tough. It’s reminiscent of the jackasses now who loudly cite every winter snowfall as “proof” that global warming is not occurring.
While that “debate” raged on, the tobacco industry reaped billions. The truth was, for them it was all about the money.
Before that, it was obvious to ANY objective observer that workers in the United States Radium factories, the so-called Radium Girls, were being poisoned on the job. U.S. Radium fought this tooth and nail by carefully burying most of the science that supported the dying women’s claims and trumpeting the odd little bits here and there that called those claims into question.
What U.S. Radium did was scandalous. Their own scientists and managers carefully avoided any exposure to radium in their factories; yet they encouraged these low-paid workers to put it in their mouths many times per day as part of their work, and they managed to get away with that for years.
“U.S. Radium and other watch-dial companies rejected claims that the afflicted workers were suffering from exposure to radium. For some time, doctors, dentists, and researchers complied with requests from the companies not to release their data. At the urging of the companies, worker deaths were attributed by medical professionals to other causes; syphilis, a notorious sexually transmitted disease at the time, was often cited in attempts to smear the reputations of the women.”
hey wayne at #86….you need to share your “knee-pad” suggestion with your partner, gdad, who brought ‘em up in the first place.
Sooo, thank you for proving Awood right yet again, with his absolutely correct post at #91, where he tags folks like you as totally lacking in reality.
“Debbie | March 17, 2013 at 9:55 am
I have never feared the UN taking any American’s property away from them. I lack the paranoia gene.:”yes debbie doo you might but at least I lack the ‘stupid lie believer’ gene…go get genetic counseling dear
true Awood, they think it is conspiracy, lol, when in fact it is the plan they have and the libbie coms don’t have the comprehension skills to understand it.
You be sure and let us know when the UN takes over your property, Pammala.
Are Google maps with pictures of homes, a gov’t plan? Are the pictured homes the ones marked for visitation by the black helicopters?
“you need to share your “knee-pad” suggestion with your partner, gdad, who brought ‘em up in the first place.”
Frank, you were pretty much the originator of the kneepad BS on this blog. We all know it.
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/government-lies/google/gallery.html
GO84, of course it is possible that the people in the vicinity of the Crooked Road “don’t want to spend the money on this. Or that they don’t see the big savior in the plan presented”. If that was really all there was to this issue, few of us would even have noticed. Some communities do not want tourists or their dollars much less the “strings” that might be attached to any historical designation. Do you KNOW for a fact that no TEA “party” ideology was used or fed to these people and that it could not have colored their opinions? Do you KNOW for a fact that it is just a “simple disagreement about how THEY want to spend THEIR money”?
If you can prove that there was no outside influence from the TEA “party” types, now would be the time to offer it and make us all look silly for thinking such a thing.
From what I have seen, Russell County has plenty of TEA “party” types influencing their decisions. But I will look at any proof you have to the contrary.
Re: Sandi Saunders at 2:09 pm
I have no problem with folk publicizing their ideology or feed people facts to think about. Ditto expressing opinions.
You do it to promote you views all the time — particularly to advance your agenda on gun-control.
Why would you object so strongly to others advancing their ideology?
The UN doesn’t want y’all’s trailers, people…relax.
I think you misunderstood what I said Dave Hicks, there is nothing “wrong” per se with “others advancing their ideology”, however the conversation was about “others advancing their ideology” and influence while GO84 was insisting no such thing had happened. Own it. That is all I was saying.
Re: Sandi Saunders at 3:10 pm
Ah the old Alan Greenspan, “I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
Got it!
-
Wayne Goodman@97 . . .you provide no answers to any of the questions I
raise at post 89 and, sir, you miss the point of the post entirely. Dan posted
garbage; which may well be the best he can do. Please continue to buy into
the liberal lie as it suits you so very well.
Re: Kristen at 2:38 pm and others
Why do so many folk on the far left, as well as the far right, seem to think that the folk who live in trailers / fly coach / live in rural SWVA / etc can’t think for themselves, don’t have a right to an opinion, have less rights / etc?
IMHO, some on this blog who disparaged Romney’s 47% comment also seem to write off the 47% (or some percent of our citizenry), themselves — maybe without realizing it.
Some folk here who disparage other folk who claim to have retired at forty-what-ever / claimed to have owned a business / etc — then appear to turn around and look down their own noses at other folk they consider be less worthy of consideration / having an opinion / etc.
Why can’t we just debate issues w/o resorting to stereotyping, name calling, disparaging remarks, etc?
http://www.nps.gov/history/heritageareas/FAQ/
Under discussion is NOT abortion and NOT guns, so please leave those comments elsewhere. Under discussion here is why a group of individuals with wrong information about an important subject were allowed to derail a partnership between our shared communities and our federal government. A National Heritage Area disignation is a public-private partnership. NHA entities support historic preservation, natural resource conservation, recreation, heritage tourism, and educational projects.
NHAs are a grassroots, community-driven approach to heritage conservation and economic development.
NHAs further the mission of the National Park Service (NPS) by fostering community stewardship of our nation’s heritage. It doesn’t give away your private property or anything else.
We have lost a wonderful opportunity because a few obstructionists with inaccurate ideas don’t want SW Virginia to be anything more that what it already is and they think there is nothing here to preserve. They are so ignorant they think the NEA has something to do with Vinton’s Fiddle and Banjo Club. Pardon me if I label them ignorant. It is the kindest descriptor I can find.
To: Dave Hicks who said “Why do so many folk on the far left, as well as the far right, seem to think that the folk who live in trailers / fly coach / live in rural SWVA / etc can’t think for themselves, don’t have a right to an opinion, have less rights / etc?”
Because they think we are ignorant, poverty stricken, illiterate hillbillies. But mostly, because there is a lot of poverty here, so hey, why should “they” get the same vote as “us” when clearly, “they” don’t now what is best for them.
pardon my two typos in the two above posts. Destination and KNOW.
Dave H @ 3:58,
“Why can’t we just debate issues w/o resorting to stereotyping, name calling, disparaging remarks, etc?”
As usual, Dave H sets the bar far higher than the rest of us could reach. He and Ron H probably do more to make this place more civil than all the other regulars combined.
Hey Dave Hicks,
very good point, sir.
we even have a far lefty who refers to other posters as “short bus riders”, and tells them to “try not to lick the windows”. I wonder how many folks on this blog who might have a family member who, in fact, rides or did ride, a short bus, and cringe every time that “person” posts stuff like that.
oh well, it’s the nature of the beast.
#117 Gosh, Frank, suzie has used that very term several times — along with the “R” word. I didn’t know she was a far lefty. Thanks for telling us.
Re: Beverly S. 3 at 5:08 pm
National Heritage Areas are typically administered by state governments or non-profit organizations or private corporations — often not local grassroots organizations, albeit they are suppose to have “input.”.
What form of oversight and control was being proposed here? What “management entity” would assume what control of what? State or federal government agency, State or federal commission, or governmental-corporation or non-profit organization or private corporation? What actual authority would locals have?
What form of input would local governments of other locals have in management / control of this proposed area?
How would the designation limit or effect existing local control of land use zoning, etc.
How would issues of property rights of private individuals in the area be limited? Could existing structure could be designated as an intricate part of the history and the owners limited in how they are maintained (at whose expense) — maybe prohibiting the owner from tearing them down? Has not the history of existing NPS’s “management entity” been reported to often be in opposition to most residential and commercial development in the region?
IIRC, both the GAO and the CRS have said that the cost of existing NPS’s maintenance is seriously backlogged. If they are several billion dollars in the hole and if hole is getting deeper and if the federal goverment is likely to be cutting annual appropriations (given the current climate in DC) what exactly would the designation do to help the welfare of this area?
If it is possibly (likely?) that federal funds are drying up (will dry up) and the NPS’s “management entity” typically oppose development in the region, what is in it for the for the locals?
You seem to know more the possible complexities than I do. I am excited by the positive opportunities, not the lawyer questions that the Crooked Road proponents have already faced and, as far as know, answered satisfactorily.
I read Dan’s two published articles and there seems to be very little expense for the promotions, with half of it raised by the Crooked Road communities, unless they opt out as Russel County did.
It is my understanding that the designation NHA is a promotional piece promoting this region to Virginia’s tourists. The promo links our Crooked Road area and its many existing venues to already existing state parks such as the New River Trail State Park. If someone were visiting the New River Trail State Park, for example, then the tourist opportunities in that area would be also be promoted, things like festivals in the area, open jams, area music stores that sell hand made instruments and quilts, civil war enactments, small independent museums, Carter Family Fold, Blue Ridge Institute and Farm Museum and those typse of experiences found nowhere else in America.
Mississippi did the same thing with a Blues Trail, and it’s been quite successful.
For every $1 spent on promotion of tourism, there is $5 in tax revenue raised. I think we should be behind that instead of saying NO, we don’t want other Americans knowning anything about us and NO don’t come here and visit our beautiful mountains and festivals.
We send our tax money to the fed and state coffers. Here is a way to get some of it back. The stupid barber shop in the Senate looses more money every year than what we need to fund this initiative. Why are we subsidizing hair cuts for politicians but we can’t promote our own region to get $5 back for every $1 spent.
^ sorry, my post above should have said
re: Dave Hicks at 8:20pm
If you can prove that there was no outside influence from the TEA “party” types, now would be the time to offer it and make us all look silly for thinking such a thing. From what I have seen, Russell County has plenty of TEA “party” types influencing their decisions. – Sandy Saunders
Mrs. Saunders, exactly my point. “Oh those poor hillbillies, hoodwinked by those rascally TPers.”
I don’t care what they decided or why, the board was duely elected. It appears to be made up of R, D, & I’s. They are educated and have life experiences. They even have the right to agree with the TP. If the people don’t like it they will vote them out. What I have a problem with is exactly what you stated and what it infers. They disagree with you on this. They have the right to believe whatever they want. But all the Left on here wants is to go up and help educate those poor dumb hillbillies. They can read and make up their own minds.
How many on the Left made comments about the crying the Right did after the Presidential election. Gee look at the crying after a local vote from a county that isn’t even close. This isn’t about Russel Co. and it’s not about the CR which doesn’t even involve Roanoke City or Co. This is about USING these people to trash the TP and the CR is just the vehicle. Trash the TP, I don’t care it’s your right. But don’t portray these people as dumb hicks just because they don’t agree with you.
Why do all of these “Arts and Heritage” Foundations need “Federal Money”? If they are useful they will survive with the money they generate, if not they disappear. My tax dollars are wasted enough on liberal programs, we need not add another. Dan Casey is just another liberal hack trying to drum up controversy where none exist. Trying to be relevant as usual. Maybe he can get a midnight program on CNN with the rest of the progressives. He would fit right in. Dan is a hand puppet for the left. Long live conservative values, long live the America I grew up in. It saddens me to see the current state of the union.
Steve…