2008.10.28
Palin in Salem: What was the real headcount?
You all are still chewing on those Barack Obama attendance estimates from the Democratic presidential candidate’s visit to Roanoke last week. And some of you are chewing on each other, too.
So, here’s a similar round-up of attendance estimates for Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s stop in Salem Monday.
I’m not surprised to find more wide-ranging numbers here. Outdoor events, with thousands of people standing on a ball field, are notoriously hard to estimate. It’s not like you can’t count the number of chairs in a row and multiply by the number of rows. Of all the numbers and news sources, only one estimate is attributed to a specific source in the publication.
So, here’s what I found out there on Google News and on local news sites:
The Roanoke Times reported an “estimated crowd of 16,000.” Mason Adams told me this morning the source was Carey Harveycutter, director of Salem’s civic facilities.
The Associated Press reports a “crowd of 12,000,” a number repeated in a different version of the AP story in USA Today.
WSET television out of Lynchburg gave a count of 16,000, but attributed it to “Republican officials.”
Roanoke’s WSLS NewsChannel 10 said Palin spoke to “a roaring crowd of more than 14,000.”
WDBJ7 reported two numbers, at one point saying “about 12,000,” and at another time saying “some put the estimates at 16,000.”
And the highest estimate came from a Roanoke Valley community news site, called ourvalley.org, which put the number at “more than 20,000.”
Salem stadium has been only rarely used for events like the Palin rally in the past, I suspect because until last year it had a natural grass field which wouldn’t hold up well under all that foot traffic.
Salem officials sent out a list of the biggest crowds in the venue. Three were football games, with the biggest crowd reaching 10,000-pus in 1989. But the biggest event by far was the Franklin Graham Festival, an evangelistic gathering over several days.
Salem officials said 53,000 attended over three days, with more than 15,000 on one day. But The Roanoke Times put the number on day much higher than that: “an estimated 21,000.”
The audience “filled the bleachers and field seats, overflowing onto the grassy berm at one end of the football field,” Cody Lowe wrote. “Still, it was Saturday’s attendance – estimated at more than 15,000 despite driving rain and thunder – that continued to impress the folks who staged the event.”
I was told 20,000 by a campaign worker but a secret service gentleman told me 16,300. Pretty impressive numbers, especially considering the cold, brrrr!
Comment by Roanoke RnR — October 28, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
I counted just over 13,000. I was near the front of the line….. counting.
Comment by Karen — October 28, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
Were there any African Americans in that number?
Comment by Valerie — October 28, 2008 @ 8:59 pm
I think just one person was there- Palin- she surley didnt talk to the real issues we are facing- she just attacked the opposition- how is that going to help us. I was hoping to vote republican but now i wont
Comment by Scott — October 29, 2008 @ 8:38 am
I went to my first Political Rally this past Monday evening and was really suprised at the number of people that was there. I found the Rally to be a lot of fun, a lot more fun than I thought it would be.
I was curious how the headcount compared to that of the other candidates at other rallies. I spent a good deal of time on the internet yesterday and could find no such information. The numbers I did find were all estimates that varied greatly depending on who did the estimate and the information was scattered all over the place.
I would like to see someone put together a report of how the rallies compare. The report should include times and days the ralis were held because, a rally held during the work day as apposed to say, Saturday afternoon would certainly have something to do with how many peole could attend.
Comment by Paul — October 29, 2008 @ 11:05 am
I was standing in the middle of the field and I counted 21,301 but
a couple kept hiding in the porta-potty. One guy had a mask on and I was
not sure if it was a real person. The truth is that Sarah Palin smoked
Obama with her crowd in 43 degree imported Alaskan temperatures. South
West Virginia apparently did not read or believe the polls. And what about the “skip work and go see Sarah crowd”….Most everyone present came
after 5:00PM rather than risk damaging their small businesses that Obama plans on taxing out of existence…..then we can all stay home!
Comment by Ray Roberts — October 29, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
UNBELIEVABLE!
RT can’t even get this right. The person in the know would be Carey Harveycutter, he is the guru of that center. He said it was about 16K. Now the RT is calling him a liar. UNBELIEVABLE! Who has the most unbaised opinion?? HMMMMMMMM!
Comment by John — October 30, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
Um, John, I’m a little confused. If you read this post, you clearly saw that the 16,000 we published came from Carey Harveycutter. Now, where in all this is The Roanoke Times calling Cary a liar?
Comment by Matt Chittum — October 30, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
I told you guys that the Secret Service flew two passes over the stadium
with face recognition software in a Cessna 150. They counted 21,301 happy
faces that all registered Republican except for one face I.D.ed as Matt
Chittum. Sorry Matt you can’t guestimate 16,000 when the Republicans really smoked the Obamarama Nation…..Why so wrong and so late on getting a correct count? Why does the RT place a cartoon with no respect
for Governor Palin in the paper on the day of her visit? Why won’t the Roanoke Times publish any of the great photos of Republican Rallys I have
posted all this week in your submit photos section. You are looking more and more like the LA Times…. Mind control through media….In the Tank!
Comment by Ray Roberts — October 30, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
You guys just slay me. But I really do appreciate you reading the blog and commenting. I’ll never move you off your belief that the paper’s a liberal rag, but for the record, and for what it’s worth, I really do just put this stuff out there for you all to chew on. If you want to chew on me, too, that’s fine.
Ok, let’s see. I don’t have a thing to do with the political cartoons. That’s another department entirely, so take that up with Editorial.
Who guestimated 16,000? That’s the official count our reporter was given by the Salem civic facilities manager, the aforementioned Carey Harveycutter, and which the Republican Party was also giving out. So, where’s the partisan sin? How is it that the RT was late and wrong? Pardon me for being thick, but I’m just not following.
About the photos, I just don’t have a clue. I really don’t. If you really want me to, I can check. Seriously. Of course, if there really was some left-wing conspiracy behind it, I’d never tell, because, well, I’m part of the left-wing conspiracy, right?
Thanks again for the comments. Rock on.
m
Comment by Matt Chittum — October 30, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
Refer to RT writer Shanna Flowers’s article on page 10 Tues. Oct.28, 2008. I think she was offended by someone who whispered “God bless you for being here.” She could probably give an estimate of the crowd that was not “racially diverse”. Tickets were supposed to be used and some of my family members who were present said about 16,000 was expected. We watched it from my computer at home on WDBJ LIVE.
Comment by Patricia Allie — October 31, 2008 @ 2:34 am
Palin had a larger crowd ONLY for the fact that it was held around dinner time. Obamas rally was held during the day while many people were at work and could not attend. Obama has broken attendance records all over the country, don’t feel empowered just because Palin drew big numbers here. And hey Ray, it’s going to be ok, just slide the tin foil hat back on, and maybe read a few books, because you will be seeing Obama quite a lot in the next 4 years.
Comment by Eli B. — October 31, 2008 @ 8:47 am
valire you know they are not welcome at palins rallys they look like klan rallys
Comment by jay shelley — October 31, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
just kidding dont get mad people but you gotta admit they prob would be welcome
Comment by jay shelley — October 31, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
Palin is such an airhead. I’m surprised even the Republicans went to see her…maybe they wanted to see what a “diva” is.
Comment by Lynn Thompson — November 1, 2008 @ 12:31 am
To get an estimated count of the number of people at an event, they usually pass over the crowd at a given altitude, and use a grid to estimate the number in attendance.
Comment by zookz — November 1, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
I think obama is teh real diva… anyone with a “narcissist personilty disorder” diagnosis is bound to fall into the “diva” category.
Comment by zookz — November 1, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
Lynn Thompson go back to your dungeon!
Comment by EWardPuma — November 1, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
You mean to tell me 16,000+ people couldn’t find anything better to do that day?
I’m sorry. I feel for you all.
Comment by Brandon R. — November 1, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Well, I wasn’t thrilled with Palin’s selection, but I wouldn’t describe her as a diva. From all reports, even lefty Dems have described her as having phenomenal crowd charisma, more uplifting and positive than that of Obama. Amazingly enough, her SNL appearance had 7 million more viewers than Obama’s ostentatious purchase of primetime TV ad space. Obama is outspending McCain three to one, and buying this Presidency like no one has before.
You have to weigh Palin’s flaws against the other ticket. Biden’s a real piece of work, but Obama’s the top of the ticket, a junior, barely one-term Senator with a penchant for voting “present”.
Obama said in a 2001 interview that the founding fathers had a blind spot, and that the Constitution is therefore a flawed document. He advocates expanding government power beyond the negative powers the Constitution delineates. The fact that it was designed to restrain an ever-intrusive and tyrannical government, I suppose, doesn’t enter into his calculations. We don’t want to institutionalize overbearing government powers over private citizens, Obama, and we don’t see that principle as a “flaw”.
I don’t think people realize when he says he’s going to fundamentally change America, that’s exactly what he means. People are enamored of “change” because they’re tired of the “past” but it doesn’t make sense to go for ANYTHING just because it’s “change”. As for comparing McCain and Palin to Obama and Biden, McCain has a few faults of his own, but just because it’s really hot inside the pan, doesn’t mean it makes sense to jump into the fire. What ever McCain’s shortcomings, they are far less than those of Obama and Biden.
Comment by rubicon — November 1, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
Barack Obama will invite to the White House a man who dedicated his book to Sirhan Sirhan. Is that the kind of person you want in the White House? Check out pumapac.org
Comment by pumafan — November 1, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
How ACORN stole the nomination from Hillary.
Did you know:
Hillary won 21 out of 39 Democratic Primaries…
But Obama won 13 out of 14 Democratic Caucuses?
How could that be?
In Texas, which has both a Primary and a Caucus on the same day, Hillary won the Primary by 4% but lost the Caucus by 10%
A 14% swing in Texas – in the same state on the same day – How could that be?
Primaries are based on the popular vote.
Caucuses are based on chaos.
Caucuses are a funny thing. They are determined based on who can persuade more people to stand on one side of a school gymnasium than the other. It is truly chaos. Obama has mastered the art of caucus chaos.
Here is how Obama did it:
1. ACORN sends busloads of people into the state, many of whom do not even live in the state, and they saturate the caucus site with rowdy, pushy and intimidating Obama surrogates.
2. ACORN people would stand around the outside perimeter of the building and ask people who are walking to the caucus who they support and if they said “Hillary” the ACORN people would say “Congratulations the vote is over, Hillary won and you can go home.”
3. If the Hillary supporters made it to the registration desk, the ACORN people working the registration desk would say they could not find their name on the voter registration list and they had to go home. Only if they stood their ground and argued and made noise, would their names magically appear in the voter registration list.
4. Once Hillary supporters made it into the room, ACORN people would come up to them and ask them to fill out a Hillary sign-up sheet and once they did then the ACORN people would tell them their vote was counted and they could leave now.
5. The registered voters for Obama would come in the front door and let in dozens of unregistered, out-of-state, Obama supporters in the back door to flood the hall with loud, boisterous and intimidating Obama supporters.
6. If older people who supported Hillary came to the caucus, the ACORN people would slap Obama stickers all over their back and then get them a chair to sit in on the Obama side of the room.
7. Sign-in sheets for Hillary Clinton would disappear.
Once the caucus actually started, many of the Hillary supporters had already left and there were many of unregistered Obama supporters on the Obama side and the herd mentality would kick in when it appeared that Obama had the momentum and some undecided people would choose the Obama side over the Hillary side.
Even with all these tactics, Hillary lost several of the caucuses by very small margins and she even won a caucus despite these tactics.
Did the DNC do anything about it? No, Howard Dean, DNC Chairman, hates the Clintons and loves Obama.
Did the Press cover it? No, they love Obama.
That is how Barack Obama stole the nomination from Hillary Clinton.
In 1996, when Barack Obama was running for Illinois State Senate, ACORN Members signed the nomination petitions of Obama’s opponents and then Obama successfully challenged and eliminated those signatures and eliminated all four of his opponents. Obama waltzed into the State Senate un-opposed.
That is community organizing.
That is Barack Obama.
For more information, go to:
http://www.lynettelong.com/my_weblog/caucus_problems/
Comment by veronica — November 1, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
Bill Ayers, August 2006:
“I don’t care where the rebellion breaks out I just want to be there when it does. I went to Cindy Sheehan’s protest in Crawford Texas because I thought the rebellion might start there.”
Barack Obama, November 2008:
“We need a Civilian National Security Force which is just as strong and just as well funded as the US Military.”
—
So, Obama wants to cut US military spending but create a new Civilian National Security Force which is just as strong as the US Military?
What for? Are they gearing up for a Rebellion?
A Rebellion?
Comment by Guy — November 2, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
Where are Palin’s medical records that she promised to release by October 27-28? What is she hiding?
Comment by Mary — November 2, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
I believe Palin is hiding medical records that us women would not want seen such as private info on labor, mammograms, etc that should not be our knowledge and has nothing to do with her qualifications medically.
I am one who believes she has the toughest skin of all the candidates since so much has been thrown her way. She hasn’t backed down and held her own. I quess with 7 of last 8 Presidents being Governors doesn’t pertain to women’s qualifications as Governor.
Comment by Kristie — November 2, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
I think America has been given a chance to elect a president that has served this country most of his life(John McCain) These no doubt that he loves this country. He has the experience to lead us through this bad economy. He will create jobs by having offshore drilling, mining for coal,which enable American dollars to be spent at home and create jobs for American workers. We send prox. 700 Billions dollars to foreign government. We know McCain does not accept EarMarks, Obama is No. 2 in the Senate in earmarks, and he has only be in the U.S. prox. 2 years.
Obama wants to ban ownership of guns,he said this in a speech. Obama also said he would bankrupt new coal exploration by raising the taxes on coal mining. Obama also has said he will raise taxes. We do not need taxes to be raised, PERIOD but especially during a recession. This what ws done in 1930, and took America over 10 years to recover.
So I ask you to vote JOHN MCCAIN for President on Nov. 4
Comment by jean — November 2, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
Bobby Kennedy aide endorses John McCain
“Character in the White House is more important than charisma on the campaign trail.”
- Bartle Bull, aide to Bobby Kennedy and lifelong liberal who was arrested during 1960s civil rights protests
It was recently revealed, not by NBC, that Bill Ayers loves the man who killed Bobby Kennedy. Bill Ayers dedicated his book to Sirhan Sirhan, called Sirhan Sirhan a political prisoner and called for his release from prison.
Barack Obama provided a book review quote for the jacket cover of Bill Ayers’ book calling it “searing, timely and courageous.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWNmZDQ4MWE2OTFkOGZlMThmZDJkMWNhNDdhY2UzMWI
Comment by Peter — November 3, 2008 @ 11:17 am
As an 86 year old AA – and a Democratic voter for the last 60 years and a Hillary Clinton supporter – these are trouble problems for me – I just can not vote for Sen. Obama
l. Colin Powell – a Bush – Sec of State that got us into this war
stating Weapons of Mass Destruction which proved erroneous — endorses
Obama who readily accepts the endorsement – wasn’t Obama against the
war in Iraq?
2. Everyone thinks Bill Ayers is not a situation that is disturbing -
people died because of him just like McVeigh – only not as many.
Wright, Rezko and all the other associations – if you know nothing
about a person’s character, which we don’t about Sen Obama – you are
obliged to look at his friends.
3. Bothers me that Sen Obama did not know that Wright was a racist,
that Ayers was a terrorist, that Rezko was a crook, that the media says Acorn was
involved with voting fraud – what does he know?
4. Race baiting constantly – any question you ask about anything from
Sen Obamas past makes you a racist, or a bitter person clinging to
your religion and guns, as an AA I would not want that to reverse on me.
5. World Trade Center – dedication ceremony – where was Michelle??
6. Obamas speeches saying that he was raised by a SINGLE parent and
they were poor – actually his mother was single for only two years
between her first and second husband – He was also raised by his
upper-middle class grandparents in a high
rise condominium in Hawaii, where he attended a private college
prepatory school. His grandmother, was the vice president of a bank.
7. Joe the Plumber – he is middle class – he is one of us – he is
struggling – yet
Sen Obama is snubbing his nose at him.
8. Logan Act – Rico Act – why do we have ACTS if no one is
responsible for their involvement – Sen Obama,as proven, talked with
Iraq regarding pull out time frame of troops there.
9. Media states Sixteen States have reported Voter Fraud through Acorn
representatives – what happened to our every vote counts and how can
we possibly use us as an example of a democratic government to other countries.
10. Sen Obamas constant flip-flopping based on where he is giving a
speech and documented – from oil drilling, FISA, Prochoice,
equal pay for women, look at his own staff, taxes, health care
platform, NAFTA, Campaign finance reform, gun ownership, Iraq troop
withdrawals.
11. “People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to
serve;. I will set a goal for all American middle and high school
students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college
students to perform 100 hours of service a year.”
12. Reported illegal contributions to the campaign.
13. Mr. Obama supports a requirement for both men and women
to register with the Selective Service, while Mr. McCain doesn’t
think women should have to register.” The draft next??
14. What Jessie Jackson said about Israel and Sen Obama:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm?page=0
15. 401K tax removal plan – spread the wealth???
16. Obamas vision for Social Security would be a “welfare program” -
low earners would receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes -
can you say broke??
17. Obama states that he voted against Iraq War – he was not even a
US Senator to vote against it yet – in fact – before his campaign he
was in the Senate less than 9 months – what kind of experience is
that??
18. American Media – you have to go to Canada or Europe to find
out the truth – why is everything being surpressed here, and why are
THEY deciding who to elect, through the biased media and polls.
19. Hidden Audio: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal
Industry : http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/11/02/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry
Change he has refused to define – Sen Obama used change to advance
his career -
Comment by Wizard — November 3, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
Here’s a great political satire website to help us through the last few hours of this interminable presidential race: http://fleetingmatters.wordpress.com/
Comment by jacknoir — November 3, 2008 @ 7:03 pm