2009.04.01
Can we expect schools to be integrated when our city is not?
It seems like a step backwards to some.
Some proposals for re-drawing school attendance zones in Roanoke City would do away with zones that go back to the early 1970s and the need to bus kids out of their neighborhoods to schools across town in search of a greater racial balance in classrooms.
Two of the options presented by the school board call for single, contiguous attendance zones around schools, in effect creating something more like neighborhood schools than the city has seen for many a decade.
But in some cases those neighborhood schools will come at the cost of racial integration.
That’s a fact decried by some as a return to a segregated past that we’re supposed to have left far behind by now. But is it fair to expect the school system to accomplish what the vast, vast majority of Roanokers have not?
You’ve probably heard, and if you pay any attention at all, you could have surmised on your own, that Roanoke is a deeply segregated city. How segregated?
The city was divided into 23 census tracts for the 2000 census. Fifteen of them were at least two-thirds white, and eight were 90 percent white. Five were more than two-thirds black.
That leaves just three census tracts that could be called integrated. That’s quite a lot to ask the school system to overcome, isn’t it?
Why do we live like this?
Roanoke’s residential patterns were established in the city’s infancy in the 19th century, historians like Rand Dotson will tell you. Dotson is author of “Roanoke, Virginia, 1882-1912: Magic City of the New South,” and, full-disclosure, my college room-mate. Whites wanted the races separate, they held the money and the power, and so it came to be.
Those patterns were preserved through the years in a number of ways.
Like red-lining, a practice of using lending practices to contain black residents to certain areas.
And deed restrictions, in which the deed for a piece of property forbids it being sold to people of certain races. In Roanoke, those typically included not only blacks, but Jews, Italians, Greeks and Lebanese or Syrian people.
And for one brief period, the law. Roanoke joined a small group of cities that made segregation the law by creating segregation zones. They literally drew up maps with defined white and black neighborhoods.
The U.S. Supreme Court eventually struck the practice down, not because of the racism of it, but because it deprived people of their right to own and use property. Blacks could own property in a white neighborhood, but if they couldn’t use it, that was unconstitutional.
I wrote a story about that practice in 2005, and inevitably arrived at the same question. If it’s not the law, why do we still live this way?
Certainly economics would seem to play a part. Blacks are disproportionately poor compared to whites, and therefore have less mobility. But that’s not true of all blacks, and it certainly doesn’t account for whites who have money and mobility.
There’s also the power of habit and comfort, which shouldn’t be underestimated.
For that 2005 story, I asked Roanoker and historian Reginald Shareef, who is black, why we still live in such segregation.
“I think it’s almost an unconscious conditioning,” he said. Whether you’re black or white, “there are certainly places in Roanoke City that you’re comfortable, and certain places that you shouldn’t be.”
In other words, Roanoke has it’s black places, and it’s white places. I’m undeniably part of that problem. I live in Raleigh Court, which is certainly a white place in my mind. It’s in the same zip code I’ve lived in for almost every year of my life. I’ve clearly chosen comfort.
But what about places that are black and white places, the spots in town where black and white both feel comfort and ownership? Well, there don’t seem to be a great many of those.
I’ve got a few in mind. I’m sure there are more. So you tell me, where are the places where black Roanoke and white Roanoke comfortably overlap?
I’d like to state I ‘m 47 and have 2 boys at lincolin t.e.school and have been around every race you state here -when in school – out of school – work places and would like to add we need to think for once about the education and future of all the children – not by color- size ect .we all are in this world .Why cant we all just get along and do and go where we go,do and have our children in their school’s and teach them – guide them -Were all humans here – please dont try to push this of race not to day – and personally shouldnt have ever been addressed .We have so much lost all ready in our country – jobs gone – hunger and so many home less ,lets look at all weve been threw and some have and do go threw more or less than another ,Give all the children a chance to live and laugh and enjoy being in school and going to the park and go out to a movie or where ever .Please stop this race thing all it’s been doing and going to do is hurt one another .Let the children learn ,biggest point of all .Weve made it so far and hasnt been easy – just re think about your thoughts here – And the ones that dont want color to be with or around their children need honestly to find a town ,a city to live in that no one is there but them .This issue has my prayer’s and concerns of my boys future and others children ,Prayer was taken from school’s- and just feel the whole world least 99% has lost or let love and happyness slip threw their hands ,wake up – take a look around and just know we all are and alway will be created equal . A free nation of speech . Really pray that my words here will touch you some how and we can stand for all the children in roanoke and nation wide let them be children – let em have their education and have the same right we all do – speak to another or just go our own way .All of the children and all of us have the right to live and love and be in peace.Please dont separate these children – by color in the school’s . Please re think this . Let the children be children -and have the right to be as one in the schools all over our world .thank you will keep praying for us all .
Comment by emily — April 2, 2009 @ 8:39 am
I’m orignally from Roanoke, but I now reside in Georgia and never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that my hometown would be stuck in the 60′s as it is currently.
I have experienced racisim in my life and I have learned to not say what a person will or will not do, especially after being Georgia twenty years.
I still visit Roanoke a couple of times a year and one of the things that bothers me about my beloved place of birth is that people seem to refuse to address that fact that there is a problem in Roanoke.
Ask authorites about the “gang problem” they will tell you that, “it’s under control”, ask them about the racial divide, they will tell you, “it’s not that big of deal”. Wake up Roanoke! The world is passing you by.
Until you begin to address or at least acknowledge that there is a problem. Once the economy turns around, and eventually it will. The Star city will still be stuck in a recession, because the ways of the world and how it conducts business are changing, and in the “real world” it no longer acceptable to not be diversified in the work place, in church, and yes Roanoke, even where you live and go to school.
Comment by A Thomason — April 2, 2009 @ 9:27 am
That’s why you have “Little Italy”, “China Town” and “Little Havana”. People feel comfortable around people who are like them.
Comment by MS — April 2, 2009 @ 9:34 am
I don’t think it is right to have schools that are forced to be segregated. If children go to the school in their neighborhood and all the students are black or all of the students are white, that is not a segregated school. It is a neighborhood school. It is just a fact of life…the people in their neighborhood are the same race. They are not being forced (or forbidden) to attend a school because of their race. Busing children to other neighborhoods takes them away from their friends and others in their community.
Sending a poor child, whether they are black or white, to a school in a rich, white neighborhood does not afford that child more opportunities. If anything, it makes that child feel like an outsider that can’t fit in with the rich kids.
The quality of education should not depend on what part of the city you live in. All children should receive the best education possible no matter where they live, no matter what color they are, and no matter how much money their parents have. Everyone is entitled to the same quality of education. Children should not have to be bused to other schools to improve the quality of their education. If they are being bused to improve their education, then that is sending the message that we need to fix the schools, not the attendance zones. What about the kids that don’t get sent to the “better schools”? Are we saying that they are not as important as the children that get bused to the other schools?
The problem in our city is the school system, NOT the attendance zones.
Comment by Kim — April 2, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Desegregation of our public school system has been such a smashing success. Why would we change anything about Roanoke City’s schools. The liberal mindset is AMAZING. I have an idea for those who are somehow on the fence to ponder. Let’s have kids go to the school that is closest to where they live. Better yet, let’s have just the parents who have these kids pay the taxes for these sorry public schools.
This isn’t a step backward. This is a small and very logical step back to the way things should be.
You live in the Raleigh Court area because you have a much less chance of being a victim of a crime than if you lived in one of Roanoke’s “subsidized” neighborhoods. This white guilt stuff needs to stop.
Comment by Rob C — April 2, 2009 @ 4:17 pm
[...] 2, 2009 Yesterday, I watched eagerly to see how many comments were posted at Matt Chittum’s Datablog. Alright, so they were disappointing . . . one blogger even accused Chittum of being a liberal [...]
Pingback by Roanoke City government among most diverse in the Commonwealth : Star City Harbinger — April 2, 2009 @ 9:15 pm
Apologies to those who commented today, April 2. I was out of town and unable to log on to approve comments until this evening. Sorry for the delay, and thanks for all your comments.
Comment by Matt Chittum — April 2, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
I would say thet my area in NW City around Countryside is the most diverse in the City which is why the City wants to muck it up. What you say, Matt?
Comment by Valerie — April 3, 2009 @ 12:27 am
I’m too smart to touch the last part of your comment, Val, but as for your neighborhood, here’s a sentence I wrote for a story back in 2005:
“In 2000, the census tract that includes Countryside had a racial makeup of 50 percent black and 46 percent white.”
That made it the most racially balanced tract in the city in 2000, at least as far as black and white residents go.
Comment by Matt Chittum — April 3, 2009 @ 10:04 am
Good article Matt, I believe it all comes down to human nature. Its a basic human instinct to feel comfortable around the people that look like your family and the people you grew up with. Thats why so many white yuppie liberal types are such hypocrites. They say they want diversity but diversity to them is other privileged white liberal families with a spattering of privileged black and asian families. People are so afraid of being called racist that they just won’t be real. I as a white person wouldn’t want to live in a majority black neighborhood and most other people wouldn’t either, they just won’t admit it. When it comes down to it integration is a way for the rich white liberal elitists to control blacks. Before integration the black community was actually very vibrant and succeessful with nearly all the businesses black owned and prosperous. Now you hardly see a black owned business in these ncommunities not to mention no black doctors, dentists, professionals. Yet segregation was the dark days to these “progressive” whites even though the average black family is suffering far more nowadays.
Comment by John — April 4, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Good article, everyone has shared pretty decent comments for the most part. I lived in Roanoke for many years, really love it there. I am a college student out of state, and will be moving back to the general area as soon as I can. I think that the decision making is really all about what gives the most positive results, if any. Losses will be realized no matter what path. Things like racial polarity and the reasons behind it can be studied and debated for years, it is extremely complex; the layering of social and cultural facts that are synthesized in the social contracts that exist between people is a huge idea. Of course, people will never fully agree on those things or even what would be more positive if we just debate. So, hey, make them neighborhood schools and take a quantitative look at the results- if it’s better keep it, if it’s not then make a new adjustment. I can’t in this instance say that change is not necessary, our public schools are extremely average to below average to say the least. So, like I said, make it a numbers game- school should be about successfully preparing students for their next step above all things- even racial diversity.
Comment by Ted — April 6, 2009 @ 12:24 am
This is too funny, my girlfriend and I talk about this all the time. Roanoke is ridiculously backwards. I am a DC native who grew up here from age 8-17, went to college in NC and bee-lined it back to DC/NOVA/MD, where the international scene is bustling. I came back here last year and my husband and I are ready to leave. I live off Williamson (the good side, near Round Hill) which is pretty diverse, if you count just having whites and blacks. When we were looking at houses, I looked for Hispanic families in the neighborhood, bc they are familiar, my son and husband are Hispanic. Too bad everyone thinks Hispanics are all Mexican. My husband ( a native NYer)deals with ignorant Roanoke racists at least twice a week, mind you they cant see him, he works on the phone.
Its sad. just plain sad. The school system here is bad enough and as much as I do want my child to be around a diverse group of kids, he will end up at NorthCross until we get back to Fairfax, because college admission aint guaranteed coming out of Fleming.
Furthermore, until Roanoke starts thinking like a metropolitan or urban city, we will still have farmers running our center of commerce, people fighting over a dog park, and a main drag full of junk shops.
Comment by Nia — April 9, 2009 @ 9:36 am
Is there anyway for the dittoheads who make these stupid comments about liberals to shut up? I’m so tired of your negativity, trash-talk, prejudice, and lack of respect for anyone who isn’t White, a Sunday Christian, or redneck. But, I guess you do this for a reason – you want Roanoke to stay in the past. You want this city to have one of the worst reputations for bigotry in the South. You are so afraid of losing your power. It is such a shame, it really is.
Comment by No more Rush — April 12, 2009 @ 8:06 am
No, A, Thomason, I hardly think Roanoke is stuck in the 1960s. Roanoke’s school test scores, as compared to the rest of the state, were much higher then. Perhaps, we need to return to the methods and structure of the past after all.
Comment by John — April 13, 2009 @ 12:41 am
Oh My God !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Segregation is once again upon our school systems. Is it the 60′s again. We cannot forget these painful racist days…..1960……Why would we go backward and forget the pain. We do fine with the old system and our community is not segregated….So why
put us back in that situation……????????????? This will never work.
Comment by Amanda — April 13, 2009 @ 8:07 am
I honestly believe that the problems of our local school systems lie solely with the school system. Students need books and need to be taught in the classroom. Teachers should not have the liberty to sit in a classroom and read the news paper without teaching. Money should be spent on buying current texts books before putting in a football stadium. Let’s fix the school system. Let’s pay attention to the students. Let’s put education before sports.
Comment by C S — April 15, 2009 @ 1:05 pm
Here we go again. Diversity! Anyone ever hear of defacto segregation. Perhaps that is because the liberal agenda in our schools and universities no longer teach true history and facts. What has “diversity” accomplished? We should concentrate on teaching our children the truth and how to prepare for their future and the best interests of our country. One should look at history before and after the decadent ’60′s. Trillions of dollars after the “Great Society”, Where are we? Government was not intended to provide for us. The Constitution (which our current congress and administration ignore) says that the Federal Government should only provide 5 things) National defense, border protection,etc. Our Government is out of control. The people no longer have input. Both Republicans and Democrats have spent so much of OUR money on pork and other countries that we are now in debt to China (they have been buying our bonds) for over a trillion $. Think about voting out the incumbants and keep voting them out until congress understands that either they do the will of the people or they are out of their plush jobs with all those sweet benefits. To some people, diversity means conforming to others cultures. That is not what made this country the greatest nation on earth.
Comment by Larry — April 30, 2009 @ 1:37 pm
why doesn’t anyone ever talk about morals values dicipline respect in the class room why is it always everyone elses fault never the parents raising these obnoxios disorderly kids and what about the crap with keeping bad teachers in the classroom why not fire bad teachers who are just there for a pay check and pension.why doesn’t anyone ever talk about teaching kids properly at home that drugs,drinking selling drugs hanging out in the streets having babies at such a young age aren’t good things that running wild with bad crowds is not cool that buying and selling drugs is not a way to make a living the having BLING is not what you should be showing off along with a bumpin car that they buy from selling drugs why doesn’t anyone teach the kids respect for authority along with self respect stop with the race card crap and the blame better yourself teach your children to be proud and hard working not to be envious of what others have and to work towards things not to steal for what you want not to thug around muggin or shooting people to get what others worked for.Getting an education is the number one thing but a child needs to sit and respect and learn not be acting smug and rude in a class the teacher has a responsiblity to teach and do it well or be held accountable.every article today is black or white please stop it’s about basics you can have a modest home anywhere and take pride in it keep it clean and in order don’t let it look like a dumping groung with cars on lawns and broken furniture in the porch elbow grease doesn’t cost a penny dicipline and recpect are free those are the things that build a person of character foundation.money doesn’t fix a flaud person money doesn’t make you a good person.segragation is fine if it’s not forced live and let live.you will never make people of any kind like eachother if they choose to feel that way like the man said it’s where you feel comfortable.Roanoke is not backwards it’s what feels comfortable for the community if you don’t agree then move.Why does everyone all the time try to force change it doesn’t work when someone or someplace feels that they need to change they will until then go find your own paradise and live others to do the same.why is it that parents don’t feel the need to keep the kids from runing wild and getting into gang ect.take the time that you have free to do somthing intelegent and constructive not hang out getting into trouble these are the things that need to be done.No polititians in the world can help you when you don’t see the problem yourself children learn behavior good and bad the problems aren’t the schools so much but the kids and parents and administrators in them.a teacher that is always threatened with law suites isn’t going to behave fairly towards all children that ones that threaten race crap are going to get their way which is not the best thing that a child needs but in order to avoid a law suite they give into the kids and parents every complaint and there in lies the problem.when people stop with all kinds of agendas be it political,racial,socioeconomic whatever nothing will ever be fixed to the liking of everyone.help yourself live where your are comfortable and move on and if you care not to do that move on to a place where your life style will be the norm and accepted.
Comment by sobey — May 31, 2010 @ 5:54 pm
why doesn’t anyone ever talk about morals values dicipline respect in the class room why is it always everyone elses fault never the parents raising these obnoxios disorderly kids and what about the crap with keeping bad teachers in the classroom why not fire bad teachers who are just there for a pay check and pension.why doesn’t anyone ever talk about teaching kids properly at home that drugs,drinking selling drugs hanging out in the streets having babies at such a young age aren’t good things that running wild with bad crowds is not cool that buying and selling drugs is not a way to make a living the having BLING is not what you should be showing off along with a bumpin car that they buy from selling drugs why doesn’t anyone teach the kids respect for authority along with self respect stop with the race card crap and the blame better yourself teach your children to be proud and hard working not to be envious of what others have and to work towards things not to steal for what you want not to thug around muggin or shooting people to get what others worked for.Getting an education is the number one thing but a child needs to sit and respect and learn not be acting smug and rude in a class the teacher has a responsiblity to teach and do it well or be held accountable.every article today is black or white please stop it’s about basics you can have a modest home anywhere and take pride in it keep it clean and in order don’t let it look like a dumping groung with cars on lawns and broken furniture in the porch elbow grease doesn’t cost a penny dicipline and recpect are free those are the things that build a person of character foundation.money doesn’t fix a flaud person money doesn’t make you a good person.segragation is fine if it’s not forced live and let live.you will never make people of any kind like eachother if they choose to feel that way like the man said it’s where you feel comfortable.Roanoke is not backwards it’s what feels comfortable for the community if you don’t agree then move.Why does everyone all the time try to force change it doesn’t work when someone or someplace feels that they need to change they will until then go find your own paradise and live others to do the same.why is it that parents don’t feel the need to keep the kids from runing wild and getting into gang ect.take the time that you have free to do somthing intelegent and constructive not hang out getting into trouble these are the things that need to be done.No polititians in the world can help you when you don’t see the problem yourself children learn behavior good and bad the problems aren’t the schools so much but the kids and parents and administrators in them.a teacher that is always threatened with law suites isn’t going to behave fairly towards all children that ones that threaten race crap are going to get their way which is not the best thing that a child needs but in order to avoid a law suite they give into the kids and parents every complaint and there in lies the problem.when people stop with all kinds of agendas be it political,racial,socioeconomic whatever nothing will ever be fixed to the liking of everyone.help yourself live where your are comfortable and move on and if you care not to do that move on to a place where your life style will be the norm and accepted.
Comment by sobey — May 31, 2010 @ 5:54 pm
diversity is a libral code word for forcing people to do what they think you should do while they themselves will never ever live by the same “diversity” rule ex: Palosi,Reid,Obama,and all the others they segragate themselves into places that are good and comfy for them they send their kids to schools that they deem acceptable and they never ever are public schools either they hide behind gaurded gates and tinted windows so while they are the ones to tout diversity and all that garbage!!! talk is just to get elected into a forever job with no accountablity hire people who think and behave the same way they are blood suckers who just take and take and buy votes from the uninformed people of this country while they talk about saving you they are at the same time holding you down so they can keep buying and controlling your life if that’s okay with you fine but not for me I want to fight this system until I die and I want to be living in a place with like minded folks.
Comment by sobey — May 31, 2010 @ 6:09 pm
diversity is a libral code word for forcing people to do what they think you should do while they themselves will never ever live by the same “diversity” rule ex: Palosi,Reid,Obama,and all the others they segragate themselves into places that are good and comfy for them they send their kids to schools that they deem acceptable and they never ever are public schools either they hide behind gaurded gates and tinted windows so while they are the ones to tout diversity and all that garbage!!! talk is just to get elected into a forever job with no accountablity hire people who think and behave the same way they are blood suckers who just take and take and buy votes from the uninformed people of this country while they talk about saving you they are at the same time holding you down so they can keep buying and controlling your life if that’s okay with you fine but not for me I want to fight this system until I die and I want to be living in a place with like minded folks.
Comment by sobey — May 31, 2010 @ 6:09 pm
Started to read your book and dozed off, sobey. Skipped to the next chapter and it seems like a repeat. You want to be around like minded folks? Declining morals, blood suckers, stupid people (people who are not like minded?), darned liberals…. Egads. I thought the topic was racial diversity and harmony.
Comment by Liberte — February 4, 2011 @ 8:50 pm
Roanoke needs new blood. If diversity is to come, it must start with employment, it must start knowing that when i show up for the interview of a prestigious job, my skin color will not be a determining factor. It must start with when my application is being reviewed, my zip code will not put me in the discard file. I still can walk into the Co-op and have “weird” stares from the white staff. I still walk the halls of VA Western while the white kids look as though they have never seen an African American before. I go into Fresh Market or the credit union at Towers and whites give me a double take as if I shouldnt be there. A lot of white Roanokers are backward and twisted and suffer from an extreme case of superiority complex.If they dont look like you, apparently they have no basic right to exist..they have no right to venture out of the redlined areas that we are encouraged to stay in.
Comment by smalltown — February 6, 2011 @ 7:10 am
“If diversity is to come, it must start with employment, it must start knowing that when i show up for the interview of a prestigious job, my skin color will not be a determining factor”
It wont be.And if you don’t get a job its not your skin colors fault,its yours.The sooner you understand that the easier your life will be.
“Why do we live like this?”
People live where they choose to live.No one is forced to live in any certain neighborhood.In truth blacks like to live in black neighborhoods and whites prefer to live in white neighborhoods.Nothing wrong with that.
What IS wrong is FORCED integration,Integration against the will of the people.Now that is true racism.
Comment by Jack Mcguire — February 17, 2011 @ 4:41 pm